I remember reading a Reddit thread of a guy who did literally hundreds of clears of E12S using the dragon kick rotation fishing for crits and eventually got a rank 1 gold parse using the dragon kick rotation. It was hilarious.
haha yeaaaahh it even got a own article like 6 months ago :D even did the math y its a dps loss but its such a easy rotation that you cant mess up making it more consistent and stronger
I was actually thinking of this while I watched the video: "If you theoretically fished for crits you could top the charts, right?" good to see someone else thought of it ages ago, haha.
I think you’ve covered something similar to this before, but I saw this one in the wild. I was doing The Wanderer's Palace as a healer. I noticed the red mage was hard casting Verthunder and Veraero. But even weirder, they seemed to be using the Dualcast proc to cast Sleep. I think they may have come from another MMO, where crowd control is useful. It’s also possible they thought sleep would work like stun or maybe that it makes the mobs debuffed in some way. I’m not a mentor but I did try to very gently let them know that using Jolt and then casting Verthunder and Veraero with the Dualcast proc would be a lot more fun and do more damage. They never responded, so there may have been a language barrier.
Veraero II/Verthunder II can be justified on bosses that linger at 1 hp (i.e. last bosses of Ghimlyt Dark) or have 100% damage resist but not invulnerability (i.e. Ferdiad in Amdapor Keep Hard). In both cases, you still want to generate gauge despite doing no real damage.
Wind mage lol. I started on conjurer having never played an mmo before, so the way the skills work was new to me. When I first unlocked aero 1, I used it as my main attack over stone 1 because it didn't seem to do much less damage, had the dot effect, I could move while casting it, and I assumed later spells were stronger than earlier ones. Thankfully realized pretty quickly that the delay from the gcd made the instant cast not worth sacrificing the damage, especially after unlocking stone 2 made the gap much bigger. But I ran wind mage for a few levels at the very start of the game 😂
I've actually seen a 'fire mage' black mage out in the wild. It was... concerning. Also, not a cursed rotation, but back in p8s on phase 2, I remember our samurai would deliberately get hit by the shared tank auto right at the start with third eye up, just to generate a handful extra gauge. I suppose so long as it was planned out and didn't cost the healers extra resources that would force a GCD heal, it's free damage
1234 Black mage is pretty crazy. I could see the reasoning though lol. My crazy rotation story is still when I started playing XIV on acn/smn. Take the normal rotation and put a ruin between every gem-ruin cast. My mindset was “this timer to use the gems seems long, so I probably need to ration the uses over the entire timer’s duration :D.” I still laugh thinking about that😂
I unfortunately wasn’t paying full attention to it, but I once played with a Bard that let the full duration of their songs run all the time, and used all of their other buffs on-cooldown, leading to a severely de-synced buff cycle. Not only that, their song order was Mage’s Ballad > Army’s Paean > Wanderer’s Minuet. Perhaps they thought using songs in the order of their acquisition was for the best? Or perhaps they did not think at all…
It is weirdly common to see players prefer to use actions in order they learned them, like with the songs 😅 And then, it is also kind of weird that bard has this situation where the songs don't have to play out fully. I'm pretty confident that random bard at least has the foundation to get it right if they eventually decide to go learn more! 😅😊
Once had a DF Dragoon keep using Chaos Thrust. Not Chaos Thrust combo, just Chaos Thrust. After hearing the SFX over and over again I couldn't fathom how they misunderstood the tooltips so poorly that they didn't realize that not only did using Chaos Thrust multiple times didn't stack dots, nor did they not get the full potency, but they didn't even get the dot because Chaos Thrust wasn't used in a combo. Wild
I can speak to the SSS Monk. When I was leveling Monk and unlocked SSS I saw the potency, didn't notice the recast, and thought "oh I guess I should be using this a lot?" Then I fought one (1) mob while doing that and immediately noticed the recast timer. Waiting that long between attacks feels REALLY bad, especially when you're used to Monk's GCD speed. After realizing this I instead assumed that SSS was completely worthless and didn't understand the point of it at all until looking it up later and realizing it has a use but is just kinda niche.
I know it's not optimal, but I have been using the 1-6 monk combo: Dragon Kick / Twin Snakes / Demolish / Bootshine / True Strike / Snap Punch repeat really simplifies the rotation but means you're refreshing demolish 3 GCD's too early for optimal damage.
You know... Ever since checking out a starter guide for red mage, I don't remember going back to guides as I leveled up. I better go check your guide to make sure I haven't been not redmaxxing.
Have you ever heard about Rapid Fire Mage? Its working... What it means is you dont use B4 because you get full mana before that anyway, generally make time spent in Ice phase absolute minimum in exchange of shorter, but more frequent fire phase. 5 fireIVs with paradox between, no Despair since you wont have mana for that, b3 sharpcast thunderproc, xenoglossy if up, paradox if mana is still needed and F3 back to fire. It might surprise you, but my magical number generator shown improvement over standard rotation cycle. Its good enrage rotation, where you want get maximum spells out over sustained rotation. Since Dawntrail going to change mana recovery and other changes, it might get even more interesting.
It would make more sense to use four F4 and a despair rather than give F4s so it sounds like there is something wrong there 😊 Such a sequence would no longer make sense in dawntrail due to the new flare star which requires six F4s per af state to access. This style you are referring to falls inside transpose lines, although I am confident it finishes with despair, rather than "not having enough mp for it", as despair costs 800 or however much you have, where F4 costs 1600 😉😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh You are left with 400. You have to count Paradox aswell. Yea you can go with 4 fire4s and Despair, if you have ley lines(or tripplecast and/or swiftcast). I was testing it in slow mode for most stable results. Problem with Despair is long cast that is longer than gcd, means you effectivelly lose one, while potency difference is just 20. Hardcasting it without any support is negative in this case. If you can cast it for one gcd, then yea, it would be better.
@@cyphi474 I think you misunderstood me. I said exactly that you would want 4 fire4s and despair instead of 5 fire4s, exactly because if you could afford a 5th fire4, you could afford despair instead of the 5th one Fire4s cast is 2.8 seconds baseline, Despair is 3 seconds, so again, I think you are forgetting something. I have tested this just now with 0 spell speed and no ley lines, and you can absolutely get 4 F4s and Despair with a Paradox in it no problem. But something you also need to keep in mind is that to get a paradox Marker in the first place, you would need to have 3 umbral hearts when entering Astral Fire in the first place, *or* bring it from the umbral ice state, which... You might not want to do that either.
I actually went and looked it up. Yes the exact thing you are talking about, albeit WITH despair, is a transpose line. It is called 4XF4 transpose instant F3. It does not require paradox but may require spell speed. But it involves using transpose into ice, using paradox in ice and one other spell, to wait long enough for the mp ticks. And then F3 into 4xF4 into despair. But it does require some spell speed, or a triple cast somewhere to be done. It even has more elaborate versions with ley lines like 5xF4 transpose instant F3 which again, works because no fire paradox 😊 This stuff will as we talked about, no longer be relevant (probably) once dawntrail comes, but I did want to highlight that this isn't just some random trick, but actually a known trick people use for optimization! 😁
2 more sad alternatives to black mage, the first of which i saw just yesterday from a new player who refused the better way to play because he didn't feel like waiting. The Swap Mage, black mage ONLY alternating fire 3 and blizzard 3 to constantly swap between stances because the reduced cast time, The Scathe Mage, black mage who refuses to use anything other than scathe except when swift and tripple cast are available
Swap mage is another good name for it! I called it the balance mage in a previous episode of this! Its actually wild how many absurd rotations exist for JUST black mage!
That Dragoon Disembowel rotation reminds me of this player on a Sohm Al run from my daily roulettes that does like 3-5 Disembowel and then just as many Full Thrusts, alternating between the two, no combos, sometimes using Life surge. It was just funny seeing them do it, lol.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I was playing with a Woman from my FC these days and ive never seen her applying a Dot as a Dragoon, so i just asked afterwards. Well, she just used all her skills in the sequence as she unlocked them without ever looking what they actually do. Given that she is nearly 60, i just explained her how to use the skills properly and just grinned to myself.
I once had a thunder mage in Ghimlyt dark at some point in Shadowbringers. All I saw them use is the AOE thunder spell....even on single targets. I hadnt even levelled BLM at the time but knew something was wrong
admittedly i used the dragon kick monk rotation when i was levelling it from 80 to 90. i cant be perfect at every job, and that kinda simplification is still absolutely good enough to outperform most other players in daily roulettes. good uptime and ABC is a huge majority of your damage, and most other players just cant keep up.
Nevermind assuming Dragon Kick Rotation is dead in DT, with Media Tour potencies simply always using Leaping Opo as your Opo Opo action is ever so slightly more efficient than alternating Dragon Kick and Leaping Opo. Not only is the Dragon Kick Rotation dead, DRAGON KICK is dead. As it stands anyway, one can expect such holes to be patched up by launch.
Hmm you might be right on this. Dragon kick will be 320, and leaping will be 360. Using dragon kick adds 100 to leaping, which of course means alternating is alternating between 320 and 460 guaranteed crit. Whereas just using leaping is 360 crit every time, which very well could end up being the better choice. This issue could be resolved before release through various means. On the other hand, it is a pretty close balance, so making the dragon kick prep before a buff window could be worth it anyway. Still, interesting observation!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Not my observation, that's Balance guys math, they say roughly 12~ pps gain, which, by all means, is absolutely nothing, but is IS a gain, which I just think is funny. Pretty sure all SE need to do is realise this and trade 10 from LO to DK.
@@keykanon Theres a similar issue with Sage where I think the AoE DoT outdamages the single target basic attack, and Pneuma is a damage loss now. Like how Endwalker accidentally Blood Lillies, I assume this will change before launch since media tour build is *very old*. Like early 2024 old. So its been cooking for a few months by now, and plus feedback pointing out these number errors, the likelihood that it makes it live is low.
Oh yeah I've talked about that one in a previous one of these videos! I call them ultra slow mages! 😂 Here's a link if you like: ua-cam.com/video/ungFuGe6Q7w/v-deo.htmlsi=PFA-qwDiPwy0vY9w
@@CaetsuChaijiCh that's great, I only noticed because we were three cycling the Iron Giant in Prae, and not like slightly when you get a fresh from ARR gear sprout and it starts the cycle but dies before anything, like hard three cycling it.
Oh lord, there are people actually doing that? Every time i accidently hardcast them i think im about to dc from the Server because there is nothing flashy on the enemy xD
Looking forward to my muscle memory destroying my monk and black mage output for the first few weeks of DT Monk won't feel so bad but going manafont>f4>despair>b3 is going to physically hurt me every time I do it
Speaking of weird rotations. It's going away in DT but I have reason to believe that exclusively using huraijin in your filler instead of armor crush for huton is less than a 1% dps loss and in exchange allows you to always stay behind the boss and not miss any positionals.
Hmm interesting suggestion, however, just looking it over quickly, using armor crush as normal, but never moving for the flank positional, will still be better than using huraijin. As two armor crushes per minute, with wrong position is a combined 160 potency less than using those as aeolian edges. One huraijin by comparison is 240 potency less 🤔 But it is an interesting point that huraijin isn't that bad
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Well that's what I thought as well but its less bad than it seems. You aren't replacing the two armor crushes with a huraijin, you are replacing them with aelorian edges (+20 potency each, or +80 potency vs armor crush if you miss the positional) Using huraijin removes 1 action from your filler rotation per minute meaning it replaces an AVERAGE filler, which is the average of 440, 320, and 220 (and the average of 10 extra gauge, 0 extra gauge, and 0 extra gauge worth of potency).
The math I came up with looks like this: The average potency of a filler, excluding the 5 gauge from all attacks but including the bonus 10 gauge from every 3rd filler is 350. 326.6 from the base filler, and 23.3 from the bonus 10 gauge (10 gauge = 70 potency and 70/3 is 23.3). The potency gain from using aelorian edge instead of AC, assuming you refuse to ever move from the boss's back or use true north, is 160 per minute (2 armor crushes, 60 from missing positional and 20 from armor crush being weaker). The potency loss of huraijin is 150 per minute (200 potency vs the 350 potency of an "average filler") This means its a potential 10 potency gain per minute if you were to never move to the flank or use true north, to just use huraijin and never use armor crush.
For comparison, properly playing your job and missing no positionals causes a loss of 40 potency per minute from using armor crush, but a gain of 150 per minute from not using huraijin. For a net of +110 potency per minute. But that's a very small gain compared to your total output per minute, especially accounting for burst.
To be honest, am a level 60 black mage, and I wish that ice magic and fire magic could have had an extra effect. Like Ice slowed or could cause freeze, and fire burns and could cause explosion( an extra free full dmg...), thunder could have had a chance to paralyzed
That would've been cool! I can actually inform you that back in a realm reborn and heavensward, blizzard 1 slowed targets! I believe blizzard 2 also rooted enemies for a while (and was centered on you like a frost nova). Freeze was a ground targeted longer root that did hardly any damage too! 😁
That's a great idea, but from a design perspective, it's unfortunately just not compatible with FFXIV today. Slows and Paralyze are for the most part useless(bosses are immune to CC and any other mob aren't threatening enough that you'd need either), and fire spells dealing Damage over time would make the job a DoT job, which the dev team is already moving away from due to technical issues.
Status effects applying to the elements doesnt work in an MMO sadly, but I do wish BLM could actually "spec" into elements more freely instead of being so exclusive to Fire. I know elemental resistances used to be a thing, but if Ice wasnt just a literal-cooldown period, it would be less weird fighting bosses made out of fire, by throwing fireballs at it.
I’m actually a little curious about something with DT Black Mage. Because they changed how Thunder works and also buffed it’s potency, how viable would it be to do something like F2/B2 -> T2 -> Transpose -> T2 -> Swiftcast -> B2/F2 -> T2 -> Transpose -> T2 at lower level dungeons mid-pull?
It's decent and I have suggested something like this in my dawntrail black mage starter guide as an idea you could use. The key here is that something is better than nothing! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Noted! I was initially going to leave a joking comment about the newly added “Thunder Mage” which would’ve just been Thunder into Transpose over & over but then I thought about how the new Thunder kinda functions as a slightly beefier Scathe and made up a mid-pull combo from there ahah
@grottosstuff well "thunder mage" is actually what makes the baseline for the new iteration of infinite paradox, it being a black mage rotation that involves zero casting. How good it is compared to playing properly, I cannot say though 😂
Oh those monk rotations um…well, when I was leveling monk I uh. Might of done those oops 😂 I learned later on -around the 80s leveling range but before that. Hehe oops
Wait are you telling me .... Disembowel dragoon is actually BiS in the one Anyder (Akademia? I forget which) boss and I thiiink... Temple of the Fist's Coeurl twin boss?
2 weird rotations I've seen while going through Sil'dihn are heavily delayed Enshroud RPR and a BLM that only changes between fire and ice when in combat. I didn't pay that much attention, so can't say if there's anything else wrong with it. For RPR, he probably heard about double (possibly triple) Enshroud somewhere and for the BLM, it's likely just laziness. Which I can understand. I wouldn't want to switch states all the time either, but then he could at least switch to ice once, so his MP will be back when combat resumes.
Yeah I've seen the "never transpose" black mage too recently. It is a pretty minor thing, and just going umbral so you can start the next fight with full mp is at least something. It's not perfect, but way better than just ending fights and not even bothering to switch to ice 😅
Well, I just encountered a Black Mage in Wanderer's Palace Hard that did Fire 3 > Flare > Bliz 3 > Repeat. For the whole dungeon. Even after I told them that even just spamming Fire 1 would be better. I don't believe I've run into any Black Mage worse then that before. XD
I have run into people using cure 3 for single Target heal. Same as 1234 mage. Probably they don't read the tooltip, Then see that the number in name went up, so they just assumed it is better
Yeah that one is a classic! 😅 One small fun fact with that is that during plenary indulgence, cure 3 is stronger than cure 2 due to the +200 from plenary indulgence. And equal once you get the potency boost at level 85. It doesn't change anything for your observation because they're of course not using plenary indulgence anyway. And this specific case also ignores that cure 3 is way more expensive!
I got two paladin rotations that are wacky. Spell caster Paladin all you do is spells, Holy blade combo, then spam casted holy spirits, do your "melee combo" of 1, 2 to gain quick mana for more spells! This actually has the benefit of having super high self sustain lol. A alternative is clemency paladin. It's spamming 1, 2's so you can get clemencies out, this is useful if healer is dead and you really need mana. Both are awful and not meta but funnily enough can be seen with having some "benefits"
I once dealt with a dancer who refused to dance partner or do either of their steps (technical or standard) As a dancwr main this...severely tilted me.
Seen that these days. I just asked why and never got an answer. (tbh, i guess the guy just wanted to get to lvl 90. He doesnt even bothered with procs and was constantly using 1-2)
@@CaetsuChaijiCh That's what I wondered! I was like "...those are LITEARLLY the main class gimmicks why would you even play dancer at that point?!" (what I thought to myself, I didnt SAY it because I didnt wanna be mean) They claimed they were disabled and only had use of one hand (had a macro to auto-post an explanation at start of dungeon) so wouldnt use DP or the steps. and like...I didnt wanna be mean so I still did some of the dungeon but when the first pull was taking longer than literally half the dungeon normally (expert roulette)...yea I just left. I'm not going to say don't play if you're disabled because of course, everyone should be able to enjoy the game...but...you could have A) chosen a much better class given the condition meaning you...literally cant do the class's main reason for existing in a team, and B) ...not subjected random people you dont know who didn't sign up to play with this handicap to this. I felt...bad just leaving but I just did not have the time, patience, or attention span to do pulls THAT long. They also weren't even AOEing so like....I tried to give benefit of the doubt, but I just...couldn't deal with it.
@@zordiark9673 honestly, mean as it may sound to say, if you're only caring about getting the class to 90...dont make other people suffer because you don't wanna put in the effort to learn at least the BASICS of the class. Do what I did...spam hunts and beast tribe quests. its' slow but you dont need to know rotations and you're not harming others' play experience.
@0MidnighttheDragon0 they could've done a better setup if they couldn't press everything. 🤔 Only playing one handed i dont think excuses you to that degree. Case in point, I've done full dungeons using only one hand (both done with mouse only and keyboard only), and while it was more difficult, choosing the appropriate job made it possible to play it close to optimally 😅 Of course they'd need to also be very good at the game to do all this, but outright refusing to use tools because of your disability in this case sounds more like a poor excuse than a real limitation in this case 😰
oh multitarget drg disembowel rotation....i remember doing that annoying a** combo.....back in ARR..... really missing the poledance aoe -.- why did we get stuck with the lame doomspike instead -.-
i can understand where people playing fire mage are coming from. ffxiv has jobs that are very different to one another, but every for example bard at max level is exactly like every other max level bard, there is no room for individual builds, which is a thing in every other mmo i played so far. so i guess people are just used to "customize" their class for flavour. and i can understand why someone would not want to play wow despite it having a fire mage as a dedicated build xDD
monk, normal rotation is better if you can play it. dragon kick is for braindead rotation. if you play normal and feel lost, if in doubt dragon kick. 7.0 dragon kick is no more. i haven't seen the potency for 7.0 but braindead probably. 123 456 456 123. maybe.
Tired of tanks moving enemies out of doton? Every duty you get scolded about your single target dotons? Can't even remember what the water shurikens did? I present to you "No human error" Ninja and it can be yours as quick as now in exchange of your Jin ability
I remember reading a Reddit thread of a guy who did literally hundreds of clears of E12S using the dragon kick rotation fishing for crits and eventually got a rank 1 gold parse using the dragon kick rotation. It was hilarious.
That is certainly dedication to the craft! 😂
haha yeaaaahh it even got a own article like 6 months ago :D even did the math y its a dps loss but its such a easy rotation that you cant mess up making it more consistent and stronger
I was actually thinking of this while I watched the video: "If you theoretically fished for crits you could top the charts, right?" good to see someone else thought of it ages ago, haha.
Oh god lmao
I think you’ve covered something similar to this before, but I saw this one in the wild. I was doing The Wanderer's Palace as a healer. I noticed the red mage was hard casting Verthunder and Veraero. But even weirder, they seemed to be using the Dualcast proc to cast Sleep. I think they may have come from another MMO, where crowd control is useful. It’s also possible they thought sleep would work like stun or maybe that it makes the mobs debuffed in some way.
I’m not a mentor but I did try to very gently let them know that using Jolt and then casting Verthunder and Veraero with the Dualcast proc would be a lot more fun and do more damage. They never responded, so there may have been a language barrier.
Yeah the initial thing you described I've previously named the ultra slow mage. I have no idea about the sleep casts though, that's wild 😂
Veraero II/Verthunder II can be justified on bosses that linger at 1 hp (i.e. last bosses of Ghimlyt Dark) or have 100% damage resist but not invulnerability (i.e. Ferdiad in Amdapor Keep Hard). In both cases, you still want to generate gauge despite doing no real damage.
That is true, a rather specific case, but true! 😊
As JoCat said:
READ
YOUR
TOOLTIPS
Wind mage lol. I started on conjurer having never played an mmo before, so the way the skills work was new to me. When I first unlocked aero 1, I used it as my main attack over stone 1 because it didn't seem to do much less damage, had the dot effect, I could move while casting it, and I assumed later spells were stronger than earlier ones.
Thankfully realized pretty quickly that the delay from the gcd made the instant cast not worth sacrificing the damage, especially after unlocking stone 2 made the gap much bigger.
But I ran wind mage for a few levels at the very start of the game 😂
Fire mage taking "2 minute burst window" literally haha
we've seen the ice and fire black mage, now get ready for the (hopefully nonexistent and a stretch to call a rotation) thunder black mage
I'VE SEEN IT. The worst part is they only used the AOE one....even on single targets
I've actually seen a 'fire mage' black mage out in the wild. It was... concerning.
Also, not a cursed rotation, but back in p8s on phase 2, I remember our samurai would deliberately get hit by the shared tank auto right at the start with third eye up, just to generate a handful extra gauge. I suppose so long as it was planned out and didn't cost the healers extra resources that would force a GCD heal, it's free damage
Aaah the classic stand in fire for damage tactic! 😅 Very rarely a good idea, but when it works, it works! 😁
1234 Black mage is pretty crazy. I could see the reasoning though lol.
My crazy rotation story is still when I started playing XIV on acn/smn. Take the normal rotation and put a ruin between every gem-ruin cast.
My mindset was “this timer to use the gems seems long, so I probably need to ration the uses over the entire timer’s duration :D.” I still laugh thinking about that😂
Well in fairness, at lower levels, there is some merit to rationing them out, since the alternative will be using just ruin for like 20 seconds! 😅
"SSS Monk"
More like:
"Smoking Sick Style Monk"
Thanks Cae! You introduced the Disembowel Dragoon, which I mentioned in the comments on one of your previous absurd rotation videos!
I actually did check through the comments for suggestions, so it was almost certainly from your comment I decided to include it from! 😁
I unfortunately wasn’t paying full attention to it, but I once played with a Bard that let the full duration of their songs run all the time, and used all of their other buffs on-cooldown, leading to a severely de-synced buff cycle. Not only that, their song order was Mage’s Ballad > Army’s Paean > Wanderer’s Minuet. Perhaps they thought using songs in the order of their acquisition was for the best? Or perhaps they did not think at all…
It is weirdly common to see players prefer to use actions in order they learned them, like with the songs 😅
And then, it is also kind of weird that bard has this situation where the songs don't have to play out fully. I'm pretty confident that random bard at least has the foundation to get it right if they eventually decide to go learn more! 😅😊
Once had a DF Dragoon keep using Chaos Thrust. Not Chaos Thrust combo, just Chaos Thrust. After hearing the SFX over and over again I couldn't fathom how they misunderstood the tooltips so poorly that they didn't realize that not only did using Chaos Thrust multiple times didn't stack dots, nor did they not get the full potency, but they didn't even get the dot because Chaos Thrust wasn't used in a combo.
Wild
I can speak to the SSS Monk. When I was leveling Monk and unlocked SSS I saw the potency, didn't notice the recast, and thought "oh I guess I should be using this a lot?" Then I fought one (1) mob while doing that and immediately noticed the recast timer. Waiting that long between attacks feels REALLY bad, especially when you're used to Monk's GCD speed. After realizing this I instead assumed that SSS was completely worthless and didn't understand the point of it at all until looking it up later and realizing it has a use but is just kinda niche.
Oh I can just imagine how that went down haha! 😅
I know it's not optimal, but I have been using the 1-6 monk combo:
Dragon Kick / Twin Snakes / Demolish / Bootshine / True Strike / Snap Punch
repeat
really simplifies the rotation but means you're refreshing demolish 3 GCD's too early for optimal damage.
Yeah I've recommended this rotation in my monk guide in case the "proper one" is overwhelming 😊
You know... Ever since checking out a starter guide for red mage, I don't remember going back to guides as I leveled up. I better go check your guide to make sure I haven't been not redmaxxing.
If you got the start right, there is a chance you have developed it right too, but it's never a bad idea to double check! 😊
From this moment forth I'll just be a full-on Scathe Mage.
Have you ever heard about Rapid Fire Mage? Its working...
What it means is you dont use B4 because you get full mana before that anyway, generally make time spent in Ice phase absolute minimum in exchange of shorter, but more frequent fire phase. 5 fireIVs with paradox between, no Despair since you wont have mana for that, b3 sharpcast thunderproc, xenoglossy if up, paradox if mana is still needed and F3 back to fire. It might surprise you, but my magical number generator shown improvement over standard rotation cycle. Its good enrage rotation, where you want get maximum spells out over sustained rotation.
Since Dawntrail going to change mana recovery and other changes, it might get even more interesting.
It would make more sense to use four F4 and a despair rather than give F4s so it sounds like there is something wrong there 😊
Such a sequence would no longer make sense in dawntrail due to the new flare star which requires six F4s per af state to access.
This style you are referring to falls inside transpose lines, although I am confident it finishes with despair, rather than "not having enough mp for it", as despair costs 800 or however much you have, where F4 costs 1600 😉😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh You are left with 400. You have to count Paradox aswell.
Yea you can go with 4 fire4s and Despair, if you have ley lines(or tripplecast and/or swiftcast). I was testing it in slow mode for most stable results. Problem with Despair is long cast that is longer than gcd, means you effectivelly lose one, while potency difference is just 20. Hardcasting it without any support is negative in this case. If you can cast it for one gcd, then yea, it would be better.
@@cyphi474 I think you misunderstood me. I said exactly that you would want 4 fire4s and despair instead of 5 fire4s, exactly because if you could afford a 5th fire4, you could afford despair instead of the 5th one
Fire4s cast is 2.8 seconds baseline, Despair is 3 seconds, so again, I think you are forgetting something. I have tested this just now with 0 spell speed and no ley lines, and you can absolutely get 4 F4s and Despair with a Paradox in it no problem. But something you also need to keep in mind is that to get a paradox Marker in the first place, you would need to have 3 umbral hearts when entering Astral Fire in the first place, *or* bring it from the umbral ice state, which... You might not want to do that either.
I actually went and looked it up. Yes the exact thing you are talking about, albeit WITH despair, is a transpose line. It is called 4XF4 transpose instant F3. It does not require paradox but may require spell speed. But it involves using transpose into ice, using paradox in ice and one other spell, to wait long enough for the mp ticks. And then F3 into 4xF4 into despair. But it does require some spell speed, or a triple cast somewhere to be done.
It even has more elaborate versions with ley lines like 5xF4 transpose instant F3 which again, works because no fire paradox 😊
This stuff will as we talked about, no longer be relevant (probably) once dawntrail comes, but I did want to highlight that this isn't just some random trick, but actually a known trick people use for optimization! 😁
2 more sad alternatives to black mage, the first of which i saw just yesterday from a new player who refused the better way to play because he didn't feel like waiting.
The Swap Mage, black mage ONLY alternating fire 3 and blizzard 3 to constantly swap between stances because the reduced cast time,
The Scathe Mage, black mage who refuses to use anything other than scathe except when swift and tripple cast are available
Swap mage is another good name for it! I called it the balance mage in a previous episode of this! Its actually wild how many absurd rotations exist for JUST black mage!
That Dragoon Disembowel rotation reminds me of this player on a Sohm Al run from my daily roulettes that does like 3-5 Disembowel and then just as many Full Thrusts, alternating between the two, no combos, sometimes using Life surge.
It was just funny seeing them do it, lol.
Uhhh i have no idea how they'd come up with that 😂
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I was playing with a Woman from my FC these days and ive never seen her applying a Dot as a Dragoon, so i just asked afterwards.
Well, she just used all her skills in the sequence as she unlocked them without ever looking what they actually do.
Given that she is nearly 60, i just explained her how to use the skills properly and just grinned to myself.
I once had a thunder mage in Ghimlyt dark at some point in Shadowbringers. All I saw them use is the AOE thunder spell....even on single targets. I hadnt even levelled BLM at the time but knew something was wrong
Oh dear... I guess they used the aoe one because it would be thunder 4 so it should be "the strongest" 😰
As a black mage main, the fire and 1234 rotation both confused and angered me to no end. Brain cannot compute.
I think it took me five tries to even do it because my brain refused to use f2 and b2 like that 🤣
admittedly i used the dragon kick monk rotation when i was levelling it from 80 to 90. i cant be perfect at every job, and that kinda simplification is still absolutely good enough to outperform most other players in daily roulettes. good uptime and ABC is a huge majority of your damage, and most other players just cant keep up.
Nevermind assuming Dragon Kick Rotation is dead in DT, with Media Tour potencies simply always using Leaping Opo as your Opo Opo action is ever so slightly more efficient than alternating Dragon Kick and Leaping Opo. Not only is the Dragon Kick Rotation dead, DRAGON KICK is dead.
As it stands anyway, one can expect such holes to be patched up by launch.
Hmm you might be right on this.
Dragon kick will be 320, and leaping will be 360. Using dragon kick adds 100 to leaping, which of course means alternating is alternating between 320 and 460 guaranteed crit. Whereas just using leaping is 360 crit every time, which very well could end up being the better choice. This issue could be resolved before release through various means.
On the other hand, it is a pretty close balance, so making the dragon kick prep before a buff window could be worth it anyway.
Still, interesting observation!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Not my observation, that's Balance guys math, they say roughly 12~ pps gain, which, by all means, is absolutely nothing, but is IS a gain, which I just think is funny. Pretty sure all SE need to do is realise this and trade 10 from LO to DK.
@@keykanon Theres a similar issue with Sage where I think the AoE DoT outdamages the single target basic attack, and Pneuma is a damage loss now.
Like how Endwalker accidentally Blood Lillies, I assume this will change before launch since media tour build is *very old*. Like early 2024 old. So its been cooking for a few months by now, and plus feedback pointing out these number errors, the likelihood that it makes it live is low.
Man, craziest ive ever had were Joltless red mage. Hard casted Veraero/thunder all day
Oh yeah I've talked about that one in a previous one of these videos! I call them ultra slow mages! 😂
Here's a link if you like: ua-cam.com/video/ungFuGe6Q7w/v-deo.htmlsi=PFA-qwDiPwy0vY9w
@@CaetsuChaijiCh that's great, I only noticed because we were three cycling the Iron Giant in Prae, and not like slightly when you get a fresh from ARR gear sprout and it starts the cycle but dies before anything, like hard three cycling it.
Oh lord, there are people actually doing that? Every time i accidently hardcast them i think im about to dc from the Server because there is nothing flashy on the enemy xD
Looking forward to my muscle memory destroying my monk and black mage output for the first few weeks of DT
Monk won't feel so bad but going manafont>f4>despair>b3 is going to physically hurt me every time I do it
I spam the chaos thrust combo because I like the piano sting that comes with the ability.
Speaking of weird rotations. It's going away in DT but I have reason to believe that exclusively using huraijin in your filler instead of armor crush for huton is less than a 1% dps loss and in exchange allows you to always stay behind the boss and not miss any positionals.
Hmm interesting suggestion, however, just looking it over quickly, using armor crush as normal, but never moving for the flank positional, will still be better than using huraijin. As two armor crushes per minute, with wrong position is a combined 160 potency less than using those as aeolian edges. One huraijin by comparison is 240 potency less 🤔
But it is an interesting point that huraijin isn't that bad
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Well that's what I thought as well but its less bad than it seems. You aren't replacing the two armor crushes with a huraijin, you are replacing them with aelorian edges (+20 potency each, or +80 potency vs armor crush if you miss the positional)
Using huraijin removes 1 action from your filler rotation per minute meaning it replaces an AVERAGE filler, which is the average of 440, 320, and 220 (and the average of 10 extra gauge, 0 extra gauge, and 0 extra gauge worth of potency).
The math I came up with looks like this:
The average potency of a filler, excluding the 5 gauge from all attacks but including the bonus 10 gauge from every 3rd filler is 350. 326.6 from the base filler, and 23.3 from the bonus 10 gauge (10 gauge = 70 potency and 70/3 is 23.3).
The potency gain from using aelorian edge instead of AC, assuming you refuse to ever move from the boss's back or use true north, is 160 per minute (2 armor crushes, 60 from missing positional and 20 from armor crush being weaker).
The potency loss of huraijin is 150 per minute (200 potency vs the 350 potency of an "average filler")
This means its a potential 10 potency gain per minute if you were to never move to the flank or use true north, to just use huraijin and never use armor crush.
For comparison, properly playing your job and missing no positionals causes a loss of 40 potency per minute from using armor crush, but a gain of 150 per minute from not using huraijin. For a net of +110 potency per minute. But that's a very small gain compared to your total output per minute, especially accounting for burst.
To be honest, am a level 60 black mage, and I wish that ice magic and fire magic could have had an extra effect. Like Ice slowed or could cause freeze, and fire burns and could cause explosion( an extra free full dmg...), thunder could have had a chance to paralyzed
That would've been cool!
I can actually inform you that back in a realm reborn and heavensward, blizzard 1 slowed targets!
I believe blizzard 2 also rooted enemies for a while (and was centered on you like a frost nova).
Freeze was a ground targeted longer root that did hardly any damage too! 😁
Thats pvp black mage. Its pretty fun
That's a great idea, but from a design perspective, it's unfortunately just not compatible with FFXIV today. Slows and Paralyze are for the most part useless(bosses are immune to CC and any other mob aren't threatening enough that you'd need either), and fire spells dealing Damage over time would make the job a DoT job, which the dev team is already moving away from due to technical issues.
Status effects applying to the elements doesnt work in an MMO sadly, but I do wish BLM could actually "spec" into elements more freely instead of being so exclusive to Fire. I know elemental resistances used to be a thing, but if Ice wasnt just a literal-cooldown period, it would be less weird fighting bosses made out of fire, by throwing fireballs at it.
I’m actually a little curious about something with DT Black Mage.
Because they changed how Thunder works and also buffed it’s potency, how viable would it be to do something like F2/B2 -> T2 -> Transpose -> T2 -> Swiftcast -> B2/F2 -> T2 -> Transpose -> T2 at lower level dungeons mid-pull?
It's decent and I have suggested something like this in my dawntrail black mage starter guide as an idea you could use. The key here is that something is better than nothing! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Noted! I was initially going to leave a joking comment about the newly added “Thunder Mage” which would’ve just been Thunder into Transpose over & over but then I thought about how the new Thunder kinda functions as a slightly beefier Scathe and made up a mid-pull combo from there ahah
@grottosstuff well "thunder mage" is actually what makes the baseline for the new iteration of infinite paradox, it being a black mage rotation that involves zero casting. How good it is compared to playing properly, I cannot say though 😂
Fun stuff, you know when the Disembowel rotation is actually used? TEA.
it's legit optimal to do it almost all the way to AP if possible.
Weirdly does not surprise me since there's 2 targets for quite a lot of time as far as I know! 😁
You can't convince me anyone has ever actually tried to be a fire mage for real.
I have fortunately not met one this bad, but I have heard stories 😰 it sounds insane to me too, so I am sure there's something missing! 😅
Oh those monk rotations um…well, when I was leveling monk I uh. Might of done those oops 😂 I learned later on -around the 80s leveling range but before that. Hehe oops
The important part is learning! 😁
Wait are you telling me .... Disembowel dragoon is actually BiS in the one Anyder (Akademia? I forget which) boss and I thiiink... Temple of the Fist's Coeurl twin boss?
If you can manage and juggle it properly it can be yes! 😅😁
2 weird rotations I've seen while going through Sil'dihn are heavily delayed Enshroud RPR and a BLM that only changes between fire and ice when in combat. I didn't pay that much attention, so can't say if there's anything else wrong with it. For RPR, he probably heard about double (possibly triple) Enshroud somewhere and for the BLM, it's likely just laziness. Which I can understand. I wouldn't want to switch states all the time either, but then he could at least switch to ice once, so his MP will be back when combat resumes.
honestly that BLM issue might just be people not good at managing post 60 fire phase
Yeah I've seen the "never transpose" black mage too recently. It is a pretty minor thing, and just going umbral so you can start the next fight with full mp is at least something. It's not perfect, but way better than just ending fights and not even bothering to switch to ice 😅
Well, I just encountered a Black Mage in Wanderer's Palace Hard that did Fire 3 > Flare > Bliz 3 > Repeat. For the whole dungeon. Even after I told them that even just spamming Fire 1 would be better. I don't believe I've run into any Black Mage worse then that before. XD
Oh wow... I guess that's slightly better than the balance mage, but still terrible 😂
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Feel free to highlight that one, as I'm sure it'll survive into DT. XD
I have run into people using cure 3 for single Target heal. Same as 1234 mage. Probably they don't read the tooltip, Then see that the number in name went up, so they just assumed it is better
Yeah that one is a classic! 😅
One small fun fact with that is that during plenary indulgence, cure 3 is stronger than cure 2 due to the +200 from plenary indulgence. And equal once you get the potency boost at level 85.
It doesn't change anything for your observation because they're of course not using plenary indulgence anyway. And this specific case also ignores that cure 3 is way more expensive!
I got two paladin rotations that are wacky.
Spell caster Paladin all you do is spells, Holy blade combo, then spam casted holy spirits, do your "melee combo" of 1, 2 to gain quick mana for more spells! This actually has the benefit of having super high self sustain lol.
A alternative is clemency paladin. It's spamming 1, 2's so you can get clemencies out, this is useful if healer is dead and you really need mana.
Both are awful and not meta but funnily enough can be seen with having some "benefits"
Flamethrower rotation favourite rotation. great for stretching your legs!
Does that entail using flamethrower on cooldown just because? 😂
I once dealt with a dancer who refused to dance partner or do either of their steps (technical or standard)
As a dancwr main this...severely tilted me.
I wonder why they'd even bother to play dancer at that point 🤔
Seen that these days. I just asked why and never got an answer. (tbh, i guess the guy just wanted to get to lvl 90. He doesnt even bothered with procs and was constantly using 1-2)
@@CaetsuChaijiCh
That's what I wondered! I was like "...those are LITEARLLY the main class gimmicks why would you even play dancer at that point?!" (what I thought to myself, I didnt SAY it because I didnt wanna be mean)
They claimed they were disabled and only had use of one hand (had a macro to auto-post an explanation at start of dungeon) so wouldnt use DP or the steps. and like...I didnt wanna be mean so I still did some of the dungeon but when the first pull was taking longer than literally half the dungeon normally (expert roulette)...yea I just left. I'm not going to say don't play if you're disabled because of course, everyone should be able to enjoy the game...but...you could have A) chosen a much better class given the condition meaning you...literally cant do the class's main reason for existing in a team, and B) ...not subjected random people you dont know who didn't sign up to play with this handicap to this. I felt...bad just leaving but I just did not have the time, patience, or attention span to do pulls THAT long. They also weren't even AOEing so like....I tried to give benefit of the doubt, but I just...couldn't deal with it.
@@zordiark9673
honestly, mean as it may sound to say, if you're only caring about getting the class to 90...dont make other people suffer because you don't wanna put in the effort to learn at least the BASICS of the class. Do what I did...spam hunts and beast tribe quests. its' slow but you dont need to know rotations and you're not harming others' play experience.
@0MidnighttheDragon0 they could've done a better setup if they couldn't press everything. 🤔
Only playing one handed i dont think excuses you to that degree.
Case in point, I've done full dungeons using only one hand (both done with mouse only and keyboard only), and while it was more difficult, choosing the appropriate job made it possible to play it close to optimally 😅
Of course they'd need to also be very good at the game to do all this, but outright refusing to use tools because of your disability in this case sounds more like a poor excuse than a real limitation in this case 😰
Dawntrail BLM: - We don't do that here 🙌🏻
oh multitarget drg disembowel rotation....i remember doing that annoying a** combo.....back in ARR.....
really missing the poledance aoe -.- why did we get stuck with the lame doomspike instead -.-
That dragoon scares me. Hopefully a full thrust dragoon doesnt exist too.
It is quite weird!
But when I think about it, I imagine that one might be even worse! 🤔
i can understand where people playing fire mage are coming from. ffxiv has jobs that are very different to one another, but every for example bard at max level is exactly like every other max level bard, there is no room for individual builds, which is a thing in every other mmo i played so far. so i guess people are just used to "customize" their class for flavour. and i can understand why someone would not want to play wow despite it having a fire mage as a dedicated build xDD
monk, normal rotation is better if you can play it.
dragon kick is for braindead rotation.
if you play normal and feel lost, if in doubt dragon kick.
7.0 dragon kick is no more.
i haven't seen the potency for 7.0
but braindead probably.
123
456
456
123.
maybe.
Indeed! There is no good argument for dragon kick monk left come dawntrail! 😅 Like it's not even close to relevant anymore by then!
What is wrong with monk players 😅
They get a bit too excited about finding weird tricks! 😂
Tired of tanks moving enemies out of doton? Every duty you get scolded about your single target dotons? Can't even remember what the water shurikens did?
I present to you "No human error" Ninja and it can be yours as quick as now in exchange of your Jin ability
aoe Demolish rotation