Jeadong won game 1,3 and 4 with a big margin. Best played got the title. Game 3 was Jeadongs game for sure as he was a head in economy,upgrades and tech and if you combine that with the fact that it was flashes computer that caused the crash then the decision becomes trivial to me. A player should NEVER be able to gain an advantage for crashing the game. GG Jeadong!!
something people may be unaware of: there was a HUGE gap in between sets 3 and 4 FOR OVER AN HOUR when the KT coaches and Flash's dad pulled him out of the booth went to contest the decision it was pretty terrible, as Flash's dad had to be escorted out of the stadium by security because he was so angry I think Flash would have been better off had they just accepted the decision and continued, but the hour long gap and high emotions were probably more detrimental than the decision itself
Guys, you have to give it to the referees, this was a really tough call. You've got a ton of people watching you. If you decide for a rematch, everyone is upset. If you give it to Flash, even though he was behind, one side is upset. If you give it to Jaedong, one side is upset. The only logical thing to do is to give it to Jaedong as he was in the lead, and they needed the game to move forward. They probably regret it too.
I like Jaedong's opening here, mixing it up. He went triple hatch before pool in the previous two games and really changed it up here. Jaedong had Flash psychologically, it wasn't just pure luck. Great play by both players in this drama filled MSL season final.
@CodeNashor It's because only one worker can mine a certain node at a time. Once you factor in travel time, you come up with 1.5x the number of minerals in workers for max mining at minimum range(Only 3 for gas at minimum range). To go beyond that, you need to expand.
It was talked about on roffles stream during the match, I believe from that girl who was actually there and reporting that Flash's dad was going insane over the decision.
lol. No, it wasn't a person. She said it was a fan in Flash's booth during the match that overheated his computer, so I don't know if she was talking about a fan in his computer or maybe a fan outside trying to keep Flash cool.
As a Jaedong fan, I didn't want him to win like that. He won through good mirco and he won the whole thing without lurkers. Now everytime Someone says hes won two MSLs, theyre going to bring up game 3. grrrr.
@laughingtulkas I disagree with your assessment. He was continuously streaming reinforcements in. He was sustaining pressure at the choke and the only thing holding off the assault was dark swarm. There were few zerg units left, just 2 irraidated ultralisks and a couple of cracklings and a single defiler. HOWEVER if you watch the minimap right at the end Flash may have been pulling back from the assault anyway.... in which case it's doubtful he'd have come back :-/
I agree completely. I was on biting my nails before the technical difficulties and after that, excuse my terminology, BS happened with the reffing It was a really exciting finals. Much more so than Flash vs Movie
For the record, Flash's fan was what caused the power failure. So it would have even been worse at that point to tell Jaedong to try to win the 3rd set again when he was already impressive to come out ahead on a Terran favored map the first time.
Question: seems like mining Workers (SCV, Drone, Probe) dont block each other in starcraft. So why even go for an expansion instead of just let more Workers do mining?? i never get that point. In warcraft 3 it is clear as you cant really put more than 5 workers per mine. But here?? pls somebody explain!!!
While it was a risky move it wasn't that post game 2 dependent. He went heavy econ with a hidden expansion. On a terran favoured map you have to do something kinda risky like that. I agree jaedong was almost assured victory, it's just that it sucks to have that tiny bit of uncertainty. jaedong wouldn't have wanted to win that way. As a KESPA referee I might have done the same thing but I understand why people would still want a rematch, even jaedong
I've been following the whole controversy of Game 3 and the decision. It didn't look like the awarding of the match was what must've mentally hit Flash. I think it was the long delay between Game 3 and Game 4, his father and team doing stuff, that rocked him mentally. Keep in mind the kid's 17. He probably was mentally rocked while Jaedong had his team telling him it was ok. KT and flash's dad weren't there to do that.
that dropship was kinda cheap too. Did you see jaedongs units just running back and forth around the geyser? Messed up AI. Flash did do an enormous amount of damage anyway but felt kinda cheap.
I think at 4:45 Jaedong intentionally put down only 1 sunken, waiting for Flash to come in, and make the final more interesting but losing or being at a serious damaged situation, because he know that Flash's dad has become mad, he wanted a fairer and more interesting final, not just like this. If Flash had came in at that moment, the whole final would have been much different. So sad.
@Danceofmasks ofcourse the players wouldn't be able to save the game, I'm talking about an automatic save by the system, to prevent this from happening.
Doesn't matter if it's a rule. In the NFL the overtime rules SUCK. So we as fans will complain as much as we want when the rules (yes, they are rules and the players know them in advance) are bad and clearly unfairly effect the competition.
they dont block the path when they on their way to mining but when mining only 1 can get the mines at a time thats why they spread up their workers in the beginning n so on
I definitely don't think Flash was prepared for game 4 mentally. Flash and KT team were close to walking out of game 4.On top of that Flash's dad delayed game 4 and got almost thrown out of the stadium.. Can't expect Flash to play his best there
Are you implying Flash didnt prepare his strategy for game 3? While I agree Jaedong was heavily in the lead, if this game ended a few minutes earlier when flash steamrolled the top right and was heading to the 3:00 some might say he was heavily in the lead (admittedly not as much) In the end I think even jaedong wanted a rematch. This was a cheap way for victory and you could see it in his face. Still like the ums idea though.
For all those who say "it's an unfair decision", tell me, what is a "fair" decision then? Re-play or giving Flash the win is unfair to Jaedong who worked really hard to get his advantage.
His 8 rax build would have owned Jaedong had he gone the 3 hatch pool build of the previous 3 games....He just switched it up brilliantly....Jaedong wasn't as happy with the way he won....but it leads to nice drama in this ongoing rivalry
With big money (as well as prestige, etc) on the line, I'd have at least used some UPSs. Battery life would have been enough to pause the game .. since the power out didn't seem to last very long.
If awarding the victory based on resources is in the rulebook, how is that fair/unfair? If you have a problem with the decision, then you really just have a problem with the rules or the alleged cause of the interruption. I also think that since this didn't go to game 5, there's less doubt that Jaedong would have won. Had it been 2-2 +1 victory for the messed up game, there'd be more of a controversy.
@dorbie Agree huge disappointment, but it was absolutely the correct decision. There was no way Flash could come back with his main mined out, his natural almost gone, and one new exposed base vs. Jaedong having at least 3 solid bases mining. He was not going to break through 2 sunkens and some ultras with the control group of marines he was left with when it went black. Flash should have just conceded and moved on to the next game without Kespa and he would have been in better shape mentally
I would've loved to see that, but at the same time, it's highly likely that he would have won game3... So risking his MSL title because KESPA had to make a bad decision despite his great performance would suck for him.
i wanted Jaedong to win but not like this but really there was no fair way to rule set 3 Jaedongs build order was spent on a very Terran favored map to actually have an advantage on that map is very hard for zerg to do so redoing a game like that would of just been way to hard for jaedong especially since he actually had an advantage
that is a stupid point....pros use exploits like that to gain an advantage. It's called micro. I assume you think using medics as a wall to protect the marines from lings is cheap to? If you consider that cheap, then they should ban muta stacking as well.
I'm a jaedong fan and I still dont feel justice was served. While I am pretty sure jaedong would have won that there's still that chance of a miraculous Flash victory, which he has done before. I say do a rematch. And if jaedong seems to be losing cut the power again and do another rematch :P closest thing to fair. Actually the best would be make a ums game which copied what was going on in the game before it died. I'm sure jd and flash are thinking about it enough to recreate most of it.
Impossible to make a fair decision. JD shouldn't get the win as Flash was still in the game. Game shouldn't be replayed when JD was clearly ahead. I think the right decision is to invest in some back-up power generators for the finals!
In no way behind?? Yes he was in it....but if you understand the game of pro-starcraft, the nature of the build Flash was using and the resource ratio between the two players you'd know he definitely was behind. He could have pulled it off tho....He is Flash after all but it would be unfair to call it a draw and demand a rematch imo
Jeez insted of backup generators we got dazzling backgrounds that use up too much power. I really wish there was a rematch for game 3. Even I jaedong was winning this is STARCRAFT. Anything can happen.
Kespa utterly screwed up an epic final with an idiotic decision. I was really looking forward to this and it just sucked in the end. What a let down those last two games were. Flash was looking like he was about to break through, but either way it totally hosed Flash psychologically. HUGE disapointment!
i think its unfair cause FlaSh could have fought back even if he hahis whole arm pincered... its not fair. i say it's 2-2 with game 5 at match point, THEN let jedong win...
@pzhang87 his dad was rubbish. The son had already made it big in progaming so he should sit down and chill regardless of results. Finishing runner up or 1st is win situation since flash had so many titles already.
thats why not repeating games which are not played to end will always suck in tournaments: the winner of the series will have a feeling of not really having accomplished the victory. stupid kespa. flash was in no way behind in the third game.
This finals were just not right moletrap said the right word, it was a "gimped" finals and it just didn't feel. I would love to see a rematch between the 2, with additional constructed powersupplies, just for the fans. I think Flash was a bit discouraged too in this last match, which led to a few mistakes even. Before the "gg" you can just read his facial expression "Fuck this..." Well this finals will go into history as massive failure imo.
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Jeadong won game 1,3 and 4 with a big margin. Best played got the title. Game 3 was Jeadongs game for sure as he was a head in economy,upgrades and tech and if you combine that with the fact that it was flashes computer that caused the crash then the decision becomes trivial to me. A player should NEVER be able to gain an advantage for crashing the game.
GG Jeadong!!
10:18
Oh God.
My sentiments exactly, thanks for commentating this Klaz/Moletrap. Was amazing despite my raging at kespa right now
something people may be unaware of:
there was a HUGE gap in between sets 3 and 4 FOR OVER AN HOUR when the KT coaches and Flash's dad pulled him out of the booth went to contest the decision
it was pretty terrible, as Flash's dad had to be escorted out of the stadium by security because he was so angry
I think Flash would have been better off had they just accepted the decision and continued, but the hour long gap and high emotions were probably more detrimental than the decision itself
thanks for the commentary boys, nice to hear you again klaz! gg's nice to see flash kept his head high after the drama
Game 3 was epic up until the end, but I still enjoyed this series - thanks for casting, guys! And good to hear you again, Klaz! :]
Guys, you have to give it to the referees, this was a really tough call. You've got a ton of people watching you. If you decide for a rematch, everyone is upset. If you give it to Flash, even though he was behind, one side is upset. If you give it to Jaedong, one side is upset. The only logical thing to do is to give it to Jaedong as he was in the lead, and they needed the game to move forward. They probably regret it too.
I like Jaedong's opening here, mixing it up. He went triple hatch before pool in the previous two games and really changed it up here. Jaedong had Flash psychologically, it wasn't just pure luck. Great play by both players in this drama filled MSL season final.
i love how loud the korean commentators are you can hear their JEEE JEEEEEEEEE in the backround
@CodeNashor
It's because only one worker can mine a certain node at a time. Once you factor in travel time, you come up with 1.5x the number of minerals in workers for max mining at minimum range(Only 3 for gas at minimum range). To go beyond that, you need to expand.
It was talked about on roffles stream during the match, I believe from that girl who was actually there and reporting that Flash's dad was going insane over the decision.
lol. No, it wasn't a person. She said it was a fan in Flash's booth during the match that overheated his computer, so I don't know if she was talking about a fan in his computer or maybe a fan outside trying to keep Flash cool.
As a Jaedong fan, I didn't want him to win like that. He won through good mirco and he won the whole thing without lurkers. Now everytime Someone says hes won two MSLs, theyre going to bring up game 3. grrrr.
@laughingtulkas I disagree with your assessment. He was continuously streaming reinforcements in. He was sustaining pressure at the choke and the only thing holding off the assault was dark swarm.
There were few zerg units left, just 2 irraidated ultralisks and a couple of cracklings and a single defiler. HOWEVER if you watch the minimap right at the end Flash may have been pulling back from the assault anyway.... in which case it's doubtful he'd have come back :-/
I agree completely. I was on biting my nails before the technical difficulties and after that, excuse my terminology, BS happened with the reffing It was a really exciting finals. Much more so than Flash vs Movie
I was looking forward to one of the best SC finals of all time and I get this travesty. God damn it.
First three games were great though.
For the record, Flash's fan was what caused the power failure. So it would have even been worse at that point to tell Jaedong to try to win the 3rd set again when he was already impressive to come out ahead on a Terran favored map the first time.
Question: seems like mining Workers (SCV, Drone, Probe) dont block each other in starcraft. So why even go for an expansion instead of just let more Workers do mining?? i never get that point. In warcraft 3 it is clear as you cant really put more than 5 workers per mine. But here?? pls somebody explain!!!
While it was a risky move it wasn't that post game 2 dependent. He went heavy econ with a hidden expansion. On a terran favoured map you have to do something kinda risky like that.
I agree jaedong was almost assured victory, it's just that it sucks to have that tiny bit of uncertainty. jaedong wouldn't have wanted to win that way. As a KESPA referee I might have done the same thing but I understand why people would still want a rematch, even jaedong
10:43 thats Jaedong saying 'I am not happy with this'
I am just so unbelievably disappointed. Such a total shame with Flash losing his opportunity to win both individual leagues.
I've been following the whole controversy of Game 3 and the decision. It didn't look like the awarding of the match was what must've mentally hit Flash. I think it was the long delay between Game 3 and Game 4, his father and team doing stuff, that rocked him mentally. Keep in mind the kid's 17. He probably was mentally rocked while Jaedong had his team telling him it was ok. KT and flash's dad weren't there to do that.
that dropship was kinda cheap too. Did you see jaedongs units just running back and forth around the geyser? Messed up AI. Flash did do an enormous amount of damage anyway but felt kinda cheap.
I think at 4:45 Jaedong intentionally put down only 1 sunken, waiting for Flash to come in, and make the final more interesting but losing or being at a serious damaged situation, because he know that Flash's dad has become mad, he wanted a fairer and more interesting final, not just like this. If Flash had came in at that moment, the whole final would have been much different. So sad.
i just wanna know why not a rematch???
the fair thing to do is to rebuild the situation or as close to it as possible
well personaly im a jeadong fan so
watching flash lose horribly and painfully
just makes me smile :)
@Danceofmasks ofcourse the players wouldn't be able to save the game, I'm talking about an automatic save by the system, to prevent this from happening.
@Tillysouth I agree almost completely, except for game 2. I didn't see game 2 swinging as much in JD's favor as you imply.
i dont read or have seen the movie, but doesn't flash remind you of edward cullen from twilight?
yeah.. the ending was such a disappointment
i'm a huge zerg fan too, this wasn't exactly the way i would've liked for him to win as well
@Danceofmasks it doesn't even matter HOW long it lasts, you just need 2 seconds of battery/generator power to SAVE the fucking game.
i think this series wasnt taken to serious and a rm seems to be needed
Doesn't matter if it's a rule. In the NFL the overtime rules SUCK. So we as fans will complain as much as we want when the rules (yes, they are rules and the players know them in advance) are bad and clearly unfairly effect the competition.
yeah he got read though... Jaedong called the desperation rush for sure
@KlazartSC
Very well put, my thoughts exactly.
they dont block the path when they on their way to mining but when mining only 1 can get the mines at a time thats why they spread up their workers in the beginning n so on
Oh no... I`m a JD fan but I feel really bad for this.
3 Hatch Ultralisk into power surge.
Great build by Jaedong!
I definitely don't think Flash was prepared for game 4 mentally.
Flash and KT team were close to walking out of game 4.On top of that Flash's dad delayed game 4 and got almost thrown out of the stadium..
Can't expect Flash to play his best there
Are you implying Flash didnt prepare his strategy for game 3? While I agree Jaedong was heavily in the lead, if this game ended a few minutes earlier when flash steamrolled the top right and was heading to the 3:00 some might say he was heavily in the lead (admittedly not as much)
In the end I think even jaedong wanted a rematch. This was a cheap way for victory and you could see it in his face. Still like the ums idea though.
For all those who say "it's an unfair decision", tell me, what is a "fair" decision then? Re-play or giving Flash the win is unfair to Jaedong who worked really hard to get his advantage.
His 8 rax build would have owned Jaedong had he gone the 3 hatch pool build of the previous 3 games....He just switched it up brilliantly....Jaedong wasn't as happy with the way he won....but it leads to nice drama in this ongoing rivalry
you can feel emotional pain from klaz
@Nodprophet no shit, why wouldn't kespa say ok malfunction start over...wtf
They don't block each other... but only one worker can mine one mineral patch at a time.
obviously. but 1) you didn't say that and 2) without stating your case on why it's pointless.
@yue12321 It's an accent, not a cold.
With big money (as well as prestige, etc) on the line, I'd have at least used some UPSs.
Battery life would have been enough to pause the game .. since the power out didn't seem to last very long.
If awarding the victory based on resources is in the rulebook, how is that fair/unfair? If you have a problem with the decision, then you really just have a problem with the rules or the alleged cause of the interruption.
I also think that since this didn't go to game 5, there's less doubt that Jaedong would have won. Had it been 2-2 +1 victory for the messed up game, there'd be more of a controversy.
@dorbie Agree huge disappointment, but it was absolutely the correct decision. There was no way Flash could come back with his main mined out, his natural almost gone, and one new exposed base vs. Jaedong having at least 3 solid bases mining. He was not going to break through 2 sunkens and some ultras with the control group of marines he was left with when it went black. Flash should have just conceded and moved on to the next game without Kespa and he would have been in better shape mentally
@omuploii
It's competitive play. Saving would be disabled.
wow. this was fucking sad.
Flash still had a chance to come back after game3. He couldnt, Jaedong was a better player this day.
I would've loved to see that, but at the same time, it's highly likely that he would have won game3... So risking his MSL title because KESPA had to make a bad decision despite his great performance would suck for him.
Jaedong should have insisted on a rematch
oh come on kespa.. what are you doing?
pls commentators, pay more attention to the game, it was a 7 RAX.
i think flash did it because jaedong went 3 hatch before pool the last 2 games.
It would have been more unfair to take away game 3 from JD
First they rig my football games now my starcraft matches. What kind of shenanigans are going on here!?
i wanted Jaedong to win but not like this but really there was no fair way to rule set 3 Jaedongs build order was spent on a very Terran favored map to actually have an advantage on that map is very hard for zerg to do so redoing a game like that would of just been way to hard for jaedong especially since he actually had an advantage
Flash should have won I think. I think if Jaedong and Flash played game after game after game, overall, Flash would win more.
that is a stupid point....pros use exploits like that to gain an advantage. It's called micro. I assume you think using medics as a wall to protect the marines from lings is cheap to? If you consider that cheap, then they should ban muta stacking as well.
i tot its 2010 its 09' so old ....
I'm a jaedong fan and I still dont feel justice was served. While I am pretty sure jaedong would have won that there's still that chance of a miraculous Flash victory, which he has done before.
I say do a rematch. And if jaedong seems to be losing cut the power again and do another rematch :P closest thing to fair.
Actually the best would be make a ums game which copied what was going on in the game before it died. I'm sure jd and flash are thinking about it enough to recreate most of it.
13:44 epic sight
Impossible to make a fair decision. JD shouldn't get the win as Flash was still in the game. Game shouldn't be replayed when JD was clearly ahead.
I think the right decision is to invest in some back-up power generators for the finals!
In no way behind?? Yes he was in it....but if you understand the game of pro-starcraft, the nature of the build Flash was using and the resource ratio between the two players you'd know he definitely was behind. He could have pulled it off tho....He is Flash after all but it would be unfair to call it a draw and demand a rematch imo
I would agree with you where I am sitting now but then you got to think about how much money is involved in these games
That commentator can talk uberfast!
This was physically painful to watch.
Jeez insted of backup generators we got dazzling backgrounds that use up too much power. I really wish there was a rematch for game 3. Even I jaedong was winning this is STARCRAFT. Anything can happen.
im a jaedong fan but im not happy jaedong winning right now i dunno why? maybe coz of game 3....
Congrats MBC, you turned the best finals ever into pure bullshit.
It was a power outage.
series was a let down. i wanted jaedong to win, but i wanted him to win by what he did in the first game...
Kespa utterly screwed up an epic final with an idiotic decision. I was really looking forward to this and it just sucked in the end. What a let down those last two games were.
Flash was looking like he was about to break through, but either way it totally hosed Flash psychologically.
HUGE disapointment!
its so sad that such an epic had to be dictated such a bad way, w.e. reason that game stopped screwed the hole atmosphere. its so sad really.
Unfortunate for everyone =(
History tainted forever.
oh man.. gg
i think its unfair cause FlaSh could have fought back even if he hahis whole arm pincered... its not fair. i say it's 2-2 with game 5 at match point, THEN let jedong win...
GOOD
@pzhang87 his dad was rubbish. The son had already made it big in progaming so he should sit down and chill regardless of results. Finishing runner up or 1st is win situation since flash had so many titles already.
MBC already fucked it up BEFORE the finals with their bullshit virtual studio and no booth and only 1000 spectators.
thats why not repeating games which are not played to end will always suck in tournaments: the winner of the series will have a feeling of not really having accomplished the victory. stupid kespa. flash was in no way behind in the third game.
haha, good point
Or just type FU Kespa instead of GG
Jesus christ these commentators are crazy! They need to cool down rofl
If i was jaedong i would gg game 4 so it would be fair... I dunno,
HAAAAAA! this pissed me offf .. i like jeadon and flash but, haaaaa! i am so pissed
it should have been a replay no give the game to jeadon
heh nice game
man that just.... sucks just..... wow.... :(
Meh, whatever happened in game 3, regardless of who was in the lead this series is spoiled beyond redemption.
@randykarmakum his dad is an embarassment to flash
lol one time thing
8-)
g3...sigh
This finals were just not right moletrap said the right word, it was a "gimped" finals and it just didn't feel. I would love to see a rematch between the 2, with additional constructed powersupplies, just for the fans.
I think Flash was a bit discouraged too in this last match, which led to a few mistakes even. Before the "gg" you can just read his facial expression "Fuck this..."
Well this finals will go into history as massive failure imo.
Yeah, what a shit show. Bad Kespa, very bad!