His frequent suicide runs into the base with the vultures was to turn them over, as they only have three mines that they can place before they're barren and only useful to scout and combat. They're very poor against Hydralisks since they do half damage due to their explosive damage vs a medium unit if I recall right. So he dumps them and hopes to kill some drones with it at the same time, so he can make more and lay more mines. This is why he was making these inefficient trades.
another critical point is trading empty vultures for drones can be worth it because every drone killed is another drone that needs to be replaced, and if you are using that larva for a drone, you aren't using it for any other unit. so essentially he is trading empty vultures for drones and larva. You can see how few drones Jaedong had during that last 5-10 mins because he had to use larva to produce lings/hydras to combat the tanks
I'm an SC2 guy, but I got to say that this is incredible to watch. I love the slower pace of the game and the strategic battles for territory. So cool.
Correct. Blizzard sold its soul to the World of Warcraft dollar demon, now everything they make has to look idiotically cartoony with glowing colored lights and cutesy anime crap all over it. They ruined Diablo 3 the same way. It's absolutely disgusting.
George Georgio Actually, I did look up whatever there was about HD. It seems like he has switched from StarCraft to professional poker. His brother made a post about it, and it seems that the brother will attempt to persuade HD back into StarCraft once more for the Legacy of the Void.
I saw a video of him with his gf/wife and it was really cringe. I guess he is like her director/manager too or something? I forget. EDIT oops, thought you said husky. nvm
Trainer Your procrastinating aren't you fuck man, im 31, havent played bw in probably 15 years, and I still get the terran music/sounds/quotes popping up in my head at times. My childhood was greatly improved by this game.
Am I the only one who has the impression BW players were simply way better than SCII ones? I've seen so many mistakes made in SCII games that BW players, even with all those interface limitations, would never make.
I would say they're better in some aspects. SC1 players probably had more APM then SC2 players, as a given. Since you could only have 12 units you could have some great positions.
***** Who said anything about convenience? Instead of putting words into my mouth you could answer the question. From what I've seen over the years of watching SC games, SC1 players simply play better. They make less mistakes in both macro and unit control, despite having an impractical UI and despite having to play longer matches on larger maps.
H4mmerfall Actually JaeDong plays SC2 as well. There are some returning players from BW who do meet their match in SC2 too so probably the new players in SC2 are equally good.
graphics are awesome, the real downer is the resolution. With some mods upgrading the resolution and it just becomes brand new game. Like the drawn out pixel graphic much more actual, piece of art it is.
I've been playing SC2 too long. When I saw a floating engineering bay, I thought, "What's going on? You can't do that!" Used to be the other way around and I kept wondering why engineering bays in SC2 weren't lifting. Ah, this brings back memories. :) Thanks, HD!
Right. Plus I would say that I would trade one vulture against one drone any time. It's not only the 75 vs. the 50 minerals in unit cost, but mostly the loss in mining time, which has to be added to the equation. And with mines in the game, it makes even more sense to trade (empty) vultures, because the vulture has already lost a lot of its worth
Ohh man. This music. In my eyes still the best original (not bought from bands) soundtrack. At some times I needed to pause the game and just listening to the music.
Guardians are quite expensive: The spire upgrade plus the necessity to build and morph mutalisks. Once they are on the field, they will soon be hard-countered (goliaths, wraiths or irradiate). So, most of the time it's not worth going for guardians. They sometimes work, though, if the zerg can catch the terran by surprise and deal a decisive blow with them. In this game, this was not likely at all, since Flash had range-upgraded goliaths already on the field.
i Think this 2 games are from WCG GRAND FINAL 2009 or 2010 ;) HD your commentary is better then original one i watched. You are showing a lot more that happening in this matches. Great Job man:D
@OOCMonster Don't forget to mention that brood war is an expansion. Having an advantage of learning from the base game and adding things that were needed. SC2 hots has not come out yet (if you want to use expansion vs expansion for your logic.)
I stopped keeping up with the SC 2 scene like 6 months ago, but I believed I've vindicated in my predictions: Despite SC2's popularity, Starcraft I still remains a much deeper game strategically. It's really no contest.
Hehe, soo true.... However, that also was one of the main incentives to play it - you would never run out of motiviation to get just that tiny bit better, which could make all the difference between winning and loosing.
@paladn95 Remember that this is the culmination of 11 years of skill and strategy development in a very sophisticatedly balanced game. It's quite possible the SC2 will look like this in 10 more years.
Remember that dark swarm also works against the zerg player. The hydras would not have been able to stop any mines that come under the cloud. Since flash was spamming mines and jaedong was going mass ranged units, it probably wouldn't have been that useful.
Queens are indeed a valid counter to mech. However, similar to the guardians, they are a big investment. You will need to build about a control group (12) of them and wait until their energy loads up for broodlings. During this time, your regular unit production (hydras, defilers, mutas in this game) will suffer. Furthermore, the queens have to hit their target: There were some beautiful games by Fantasy, where he smelled the queens and negated them with a sinlge EMP shockwave.
@ForKa5T It can also be seen that Jaedong, in fact, STOPPED using mutas to pick off siege tanks. I'm going to assume that mutas aren't as effective as picking off tanks because the tanks seem to take so long to kill.
I thought the zerg was gonna win. but going hydras was the wrong move against 3-3 metal. I think ultra-ling-lurker with defiler support would have been better
@@TheCopyTitan ASL 13 just barely Jaedong was up against mass mech and totally wrecked it using queens. Queens made a huge difference in helping him win
In mid to late mid game flash started to have less Golaiths, he could of ling drop over the tanks causing tank distraction. Hydras move in as tank are firing at lings
This game is from WCG 2010 (Semi-finals). Jaedong lost a best of 3. Flash won the tournament against Goojila. Official cast: ua-cam.com/video/XCghDY-pYl4/v-deo.html. Replays: wcg.com/6th/replay/replay.asp
It takes forever to clear a minefield. It's perfect for a contain, or cut off reinforcements while you destroy a section of the map. It severely limits the amount of freedom which the enemy can move around.
We spent a lot of our teenage years on SC:BW. Probably the best game ever. And trying to fix these BNC glitches on the LAN that dropped our games... Those were the days!
the reason this game belongs to flash is the map.. the previous map had more spacious areas and more open space, which is perfect for zerg for surround and movement. this map has a lot of narrow chokeholds and "hot gates".
Well there's some differences BW had over SC2, #1 I believe is the pathing causing the units to do more of a zig-zag instead of a straight line the way they do in SC2, so they naturally become more spread out. #2 I think is that the units in BW didn't clump up as well as in SC2 so they take up a lot more space, and #3 is that BW had maps with much more open areas, in SC2 there are too many chokepoints so these battles don't spread as well. If you play on a BW map remake it would play like BW.
Good casting, I thought it was funny that after he caught himself referring to sunken colonies as spine crawlers he still did it again. He also referred to it as a Starcraft 2 game near the end instead of broodwar! LoL
Great casting. More pronunciation teachings: "Charon" - proncounced "Care - On." (also spelled Kharon)--was the ferryman for Hades in the underworld. "Irradiate" - Ih-ray-dee-ate. Think of "radiation." but with an i at the beginning.
First.. Lurker is most def the most important upgrade on a hydra, not speed Second,.. Dark swarm also happens to affect hydra shots. Dark swarm affects all long range attacks, not just missile attacks. Siege tanks can still do splash damage, but their main attack is useless and unsieged tanks do no damage under swarm
@FranksAJATT2 its not only that. also there are alot of units that control space, such as the lurker, so you simply cannot effectively attack chokes with alot of units etc. Then the pathing in BW is horrible compared to SC2 so your units actually cannot clump.
@ThePwnerdude It's also important to remember the time it would take them to transition into Starcraft 2. The people who play Starcraft 2 competitively, have almost 2 years ahead of the Brood War pros. Obviously, it wouldn't take two years to catch up, more like 6 or so months, but thats 6 months will be without earning any money, or very little from tournaments ect. Eventually, they will be forced to switch. I doubt Brood War will be around, even in Korea, for more than a few more years.
Really cool of you casting some BW games:) After reading the God of the Battlefield on TL i really got interested in seeing some Savior games casted. If you wouldn't mind considering his past.
@360MrCarter SC1 requires much higher APM than SC2 also. Mainly because the UI is much less user-friendly, which oddly makes the game better to some people, more technique and skill involved.
Flash exchanging vultures for drones is not about cost effectiveness. He's got more minerals than he'll ever need and plenty of factories but only 200 depos, so the vultures are effectively free.
Another awesome game. I don't understand why Flash doesn't get even just a couple of Valkyrie though. All you need are 4 or 5 I believe and scourge can not touch your science vessels. Not to mention the obscene damage they'll do to any muta flocks that clump together as Jaedong seems to prefer to do.
"Droping the load all over flashes face" oh dear.
Jaedong: the Nick Manning of Broodwar
eurgh ffs dude yuck!
25:00 haha and a few times hes said "pull out" "penetration" and "erect" haha
Jesus christ Broodwar was intense.
VeroMithril but I can't stop to see not the ULTRAlisks, but very strange roaches.
28:22 "What a brilliant Starcraft 2 game."
lol
Hahahat that was excellent xD So used to say SC2
His frequent suicide runs into the base with the vultures was to turn them over, as they only have three mines that they can place before they're barren and only useful to scout and combat. They're very poor against Hydralisks since they do half damage due to their explosive damage vs a medium unit if I recall right. So he dumps them and hopes to kill some drones with it at the same time, so he can make more and lay more mines. This is why he was making these inefficient trades.
Rather, concussive, whatever it was. Ghosts, etc also suffer this effect. Something like an ultra is large, so will only take 1/4th damage IIRC.
another critical point is trading empty vultures for drones can be worth it because every drone killed is another drone that needs to be replaced, and if you are using that larva for a drone, you aren't using it for any other unit. so essentially he is trading empty vultures for drones and larva. You can see how few drones Jaedong had during that last 5-10 mins because he had to use larva to produce lings/hydras to combat the tanks
I'm an SC2 guy, but I got to say that this is incredible to watch. I love the slower pace of the game and the strategic battles for territory. So cool.
brood war still a better game than sc2
balanced*
Six years later and now no contest. Bw > sc2
The graphics here are actually better than sc2, that looks more animated.. Looks a lot more real, wonder why they didn't develop it in this style
Probably because of the big influence world of warcraft had, just a guess ;)
Correct. Blizzard sold its soul to the World of Warcraft dollar demon, now everything they make has to look idiotically cartoony with glowing colored lights and cutesy anime crap all over it. They ruined Diablo 3 the same way.
It's absolutely disgusting.
Things truly went downhill when Blizzard sold out like a bunch of pussies to Activision. They've NEVER been the same since.
i love the artistic style of starcraft 1. sc2s art isnt bad but not nearly as good as sc1s imo
my 10 year old says, "hmmm looks more realistic"
SC1 BW > SC2
I miss hdstarcraft. Would like him to make a comeback
+Tudorgeable Me too. I hope he is all right, wherever he is right now.
+Tudorgeable Hope he does
George Georgio Actually, I did look up whatever there was about HD. It seems like he has switched from StarCraft to professional poker. His brother made a post about it, and it seems that the brother will attempt to persuade HD back into StarCraft once more for the Legacy of the Void.
+Tudorgeable I read on Reddit he got arrested for computer crimes.
I saw a video of him with his gf/wife and it was really cringe. I guess he is like her director/manager too or something? I forget. EDIT oops, thought you said husky. nvm
Ah, give me more of that BW music. So beautiful.
Trainer Your procrastinating aren't you fuck man, im 31, havent played bw in probably 15 years, and I still get the terran music/sounds/quotes popping up in my head at times. My childhood was greatly improved by this game.
25:08 "Dropping his load on Flash's face..."
Bow chicka wah wah! xD
Hydras used to be good.
This is Starcraft 1 they are called Sunken Colony not Spine crawler :D
Yeah he did say that it was called sunken colony but at the spur of heat he mistakenly said spine
The music to this game is perfect
Kevin Milligan actually only terran theme is great
zerg and protoss themes are mediocre at best
Timba246 Terrans have freakin' country music. Zerg's music is the best.
Those are great but just look how awesome was warcraft 2 music
How awesome is*
Am I the only one who has the impression BW players were simply way better than SCII ones? I've seen so many mistakes made in SCII games that BW players, even with all those interface limitations, would never make.
I would say they're better in some aspects. SC1 players probably had more APM then SC2 players, as a given. Since you could only have 12 units you could have some great positions.
***** Who said anything about convenience? Instead of putting words into my mouth you could answer the question.
From what I've seen over the years of watching SC games, SC1 players simply play better. They make less mistakes in both macro and unit control, despite having an impractical UI and despite having to play longer matches on larger maps.
H4mmerfall Actually JaeDong plays SC2 as well. There are some returning players from BW who do meet their match in SC2 too so probably the new players in SC2 are equally good.
H4mmerfall ye this is why jaedong and flash are mediocre players in sc2
+alphardxyz Mediocre? Last year Jaedong won like five tournaments in six months, lol.
Just re release brood war with better graphics and I'd be happy
Starcraft + Brood War HD Edition would be an insta buy for me.
try Starbow, its basically a broodwar sequel.
Also, a lot of the way the units act in brood war are because of the graphics engine. So changing the graphics would change the game drastically.
Actually there is an HD release of BroodWar using the SC2 Engine on SC2Mapster :)
Zhenya Igorevna really ?
I miss this stuff so much. It's great to be able to find these replays on UA-cam. Thanks HD!
The ultimate classic game. I miss it so much. One day soon I'll be back to it.
tumps up for bw 2016
BW 2018!!
Trump
graphics are awesome, the real downer is the resolution.
With some mods upgrading the resolution and it just becomes brand new game.
Like the drawn out pixel graphic much more actual, piece of art it is.
I've been playing SC2 too long. When I saw a floating engineering bay, I thought, "What's going on? You can't do that!" Used to be the other way around and I kept wondering why engineering bays in SC2 weren't lifting. Ah, this brings back memories. :) Thanks, HD!
Thank you for your incredible work on commentating this high level game stuff. You are doing a great job. Keep it up !!! LOVE
Bring back memories. Should have never quit.
Right. Plus I would say that I would trade one vulture against one drone any time. It's not only the 75 vs. the 50 minerals in unit cost, but mostly the loss in mining time, which has to be added to the equation.
And with mines in the game, it makes even more sense to trade (empty) vultures, because the vulture has already lost a lot of its worth
I like the big, open maps.
The ammount of action in brood war games is so awesome!!! DO more BW Games HD!! MOAR!!
@Zerohorde None of the themes were actually named. The theme in question is just called "Terran 2."
25:04 "Droppin the load ALL over Flash's face!"
Nick Manning: "AWW YEAAA DROPPIN.... FUCKIN LOOOOOADZ... ALL OVER YOUR FUCKIN FACE!"
Ohh man. This music. In my eyes still the best original (not bought from bands) soundtrack. At some times I needed to pause the game and just listening to the music.
HD thank you so much for these casts. These were awesome games, definitely proves that BW players are the true pros.
Guardians are quite expensive: The spire upgrade plus the necessity to build and morph mutalisks. Once they are on the field, they will soon be hard-countered (goliaths, wraiths or irradiate). So, most of the time it's not worth going for guardians.
They sometimes work, though, if the zerg can catch the terran by surprise and deal a decisive blow with them.
In this game, this was not likely at all, since Flash had range-upgraded goliaths already on the field.
more broodwar - more broodwar... thx hd... ur my hero!
Yo, HD! Imma let you finish, but I just wanted to say that JaeDong vs Stork on 2009 WCG Final was one of the best Broodwar game Ever!
i Think this 2 games are from WCG GRAND FINAL 2009 or 2010 ;) HD your commentary is better then original one i watched. You are showing a lot more that happening in this matches. Great Job man:D
@OOCMonster Don't forget to mention that brood war is an expansion. Having an advantage of learning from the base game and adding things that were needed. SC2 hots has not come out yet (if you want to use expansion vs expansion for your logic.)
wow look at the vision in these games if only more sc2 players would maintain this level of map presence!
I stopped keeping up with the SC 2 scene like 6 months ago, but I believed I've vindicated in my predictions: Despite SC2's popularity, Starcraft I still remains a much deeper game strategically. It's really no contest.
Hehe, soo true....
However, that also was one of the main incentives to play it - you would never run out of motiviation to get just that tiny bit better, which could make all the difference between winning and loosing.
Man SC1 games were just brutal. Those guys are geniuses.
loving these brood war casts :D
HD, that is awesome.
Also everyting in Broodwar make 1 shot.
oh mY GOD YOU're CASTING OLD SCHOOL Jaedong? You, sir, are the coolest person.
Very cool, love the enthusiasm of your call. : )
Hd at the end of the video you said what a great Starcraft 2 game when I was Starcraft brood war
Both the games are from WCG semi finals... But I like your commentary 100000000x than the 2commentators during that event. Good Work ^^
this is so nostalgic so many memories about this game
That was AWESOM HD maaan, AWESOM!
@paladn95 Remember that this is the culmination of 11 years of skill and strategy development in a very sophisticatedly balanced game. It's quite possible the SC2 will look like this in 10 more years.
Flash: what hardcounters hydralisks?
Everyone: mech!!!
Jaedong: more hydras
the good old days
Remember that dark swarm also works against the zerg player. The hydras would not have been able to stop any mines that come under the cloud. Since flash was spamming mines and jaedong was going mass ranged units, it probably wouldn't have been that useful.
19:10 Those aren't spine crawlers :P
What insane micro. Even without an APM counter like in SC2 my mind was racing to keep up.
Absolutely epic! Thank you HD!
Queens are indeed a valid counter to mech. However, similar to the guardians, they are a big investment. You will need to build about a control group (12) of them and wait until their energy loads up for broodlings. During this time, your regular unit production (hydras, defilers, mutas in this game) will suffer.
Furthermore, the queens have to hit their target: There were some beautiful games by Fantasy, where he smelled the queens and negated them with a sinlge EMP shockwave.
I played Brood War from 2003 until Starcraft 2 game out. If you protect them theyd rip the tanks apart with the range they have.
Brood War matches in 1080p? With an English commentator? Finally!!!
I've never played BroodWar... but daaaamn it's much more fun to watch than SC2 !
couldnt help but to notice he said: what a brilliant starcraft 2 game
COME BACK FOR SC:R PLEASE
I can't be the only one who misses the Zerg sound effects of them chewing on minerals.
@ForKa5T It can also be seen that Jaedong, in fact, STOPPED using mutas to pick off siege tanks. I'm going to assume that mutas aren't as effective as picking off tanks because the tanks seem to take so long to kill.
I thought the zerg was gonna win. but going hydras was the wrong move against 3-3 metal. I think ultra-ling-lurker with defiler support would have been better
Some queens in the mix could have done wonders to kill the tanks. I very rarely see Zerg players use Queens.
@@TheCopyTitan ASL 13 just barely Jaedong was up against mass mech and totally wrecked it using queens. Queens made a huge difference in helping him win
Well, that was pretty awesome.
Now I need some random SC2 game just to admire the pretty graphics.
In mid to late mid game flash started to have less Golaiths, he could of ling drop over the tanks causing tank distraction. Hydras move in as tank are firing at lings
Match Point is a great map. Defiantly one of my favorite Starcraft:BW maps.
This game is from WCG 2010 (Semi-finals). Jaedong lost a best of 3. Flash won the tournament against Goojila. Official cast: ua-cam.com/video/XCghDY-pYl4/v-deo.html. Replays: wcg.com/6th/replay/replay.asp
It takes forever to clear a minefield. It's perfect for a contain, or cut off reinforcements while you destroy a section of the map. It severely limits the amount of freedom which the enemy can move around.
We spent a lot of our teenage years on SC:BW. Probably the best game ever. And trying to fix these BNC glitches on the LAN that dropped our games... Those were the days!
the reason this game belongs to flash is the map.. the previous map had more spacious areas and more open space, which is perfect for zerg for surround and movement. this map has a lot of narrow chokeholds and "hot gates".
@UrineBroth68 Scourge come out in pairs and it's 75 gas per pair. That's 150 gas for 4 scourge, 225 for one vessel.
been watching alot of sc2. time to go back in time =)
@boxiness Okay, thank you. I was just curious as to why Jaedong wasn't using mutas to pick off tanks
Well there's some differences BW had over SC2, #1 I believe is the pathing causing the units to do more of a zig-zag instead of a straight line the way they do in SC2, so they naturally become more spread out. #2 I think is that the units in BW didn't clump up as well as in SC2 so they take up a lot more space, and #3 is that BW had maps with much more open areas, in SC2 there are too many chokepoints so these battles don't spread as well. If you play on a BW map remake it would play like BW.
Good casting, I thought it was funny that after he caught himself referring to sunken colonies as spine crawlers he still did it again. He also referred to it as a Starcraft 2 game near the end instead of broodwar! LoL
@eran5005 Indeed, the brood war probes were are much better than the SC II pros, but the pros have also had 11 more years to perfect techniques.
"vulture superior unit" Theyre deathtraps and leak radiation....XD
David See?
Great casting. More pronunciation teachings:
"Charon" - proncounced "Care - On." (also spelled Kharon)--was the ferryman for Hades in the underworld.
"Irradiate" - Ih-ray-dee-ate. Think of "radiation." but with an i at the beginning.
First.. Lurker is most def the most important upgrade on a hydra, not speed
Second,.. Dark swarm also happens to affect hydra shots. Dark swarm affects all long range attacks, not just missile attacks. Siege tanks can still do splash damage, but their main attack is useless and unsieged tanks do no damage under swarm
Am I the only one too busy headbanging to the music to pay attention to the video?
@FranksAJATT2 its not only that. also there are alot of units that control space, such as the lurker, so you simply cannot effectively attack chokes with alot of units etc. Then the pathing in BW is horrible compared to SC2 so your units actually cannot clump.
@ThePwnerdude It's also important to remember the time it would take them to transition into Starcraft 2. The people who play Starcraft 2 competitively, have almost 2 years ahead of the Brood War pros. Obviously, it wouldn't take two years to catch up, more like 6 or so months, but thats 6 months will be without earning any money, or very little from tournaments ect.
Eventually, they will be forced to switch. I doubt Brood War will be around, even in Korea, for more than a few more years.
Really cool of you casting some BW games:)
After reading the God of the Battlefield on TL i really
got interested in seeing some Savior games casted.
If you wouldn't mind considering his past.
2018 and we still here boiis!!!!!
great game, amazing when you think of the amount of "real" apm that goes into this.
lolol "dropping the load on his face"...I love you HD
8:54 That drone was a beast!
hey, HD, you should make a shoutcast once a week just for SC1 since a lot of people are enjoying it
Such a great players!!!
lol HD calling sunken colonies spine crawlers so many times that i lost count xD
that was brilliant. they're bringing back dark swarm and lurkers in sc2, by the way
@360MrCarter SC1 requires much higher APM than SC2 also. Mainly because the UI is much less user-friendly, which oddly makes the game better to some people, more technique and skill involved.
Both games were epic!
Great BW play from both players
Hey HD post more SC1 , not only for Christmas...awesome matches, awesome game...(sigh) good times :D
Flash exchanging vultures for drones is not about cost effectiveness. He's got more minerals than he'll ever need and plenty of factories but only 200 depos, so the vultures are effectively free.
Another awesome game.
I don't understand why Flash doesn't get even just a couple of Valkyrie though. All you need are 4 or 5 I believe and scourge can not touch your science vessels. Not to mention the obscene damage they'll do to any muta flocks that clump together as Jaedong seems to prefer to do.
I'm personally surprised not to see Guardians out of Jaedong. Would've been good to break those siege lines.
this brings back memories of how you commented 2 years ago
SC2 man! been watching bw for ages give us more sc2 action!
@Tantemify This game is from the 2010 WCG