The 4 Squares Review - Libertalia: Winds of Galecrest
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- The Dice Tower takes a look at Libertalia: Winds of Galecrest!
Intro 0:00
Overview 1:00
Final Thoughts 10:06
Scores 27:45
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BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3... - Ігри
Wow I'm surprised. I love this game, definitely would call it more than 'fine' - I think Zee & Chris made some really great points about the graphic design though. Very excited to play this again and that there's more characters, and the components looks gorgeous.
Right after Wendy’s rating, I misheard Chris’ rating as Seven point Fine…
I'm a little surprised that they seem to dislike the "cerebral" element of the game (the trying to out guess and maneuver) your opponents. That's what I find makes a game fun. That's the fun in games such as For Sale, Rising Sun, Biblios, Curios, etc.
To clarify, I mentioned this in regards to the 2 player experience. At that point is much more cerebral, getting in each other's head. At the higher player counts, it's more about "feeling" out the table instead of trying to mindread, and I like that more, thus I think it's better with 4+ players. Hope that makes sense.
@@DTChrisYi While I will agree it is more chaotic at higher player counts, it's still feasible to keep track of who has played certain powerful characters, like the Brute or the Governor or the Monkey, and who hasn't. That's obviously impossible to do with all the characters, but it's doable for a couple, I feel. So I think you can still try to outplay/outwit the other players even at those higher player counts.
At 5/6 it’s very chaotic, not fun to just guess what will happen. You can only predict a tiny amount, the rest is play and hope for the best.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I disagree that it's "very chaotic," but we're splitting hairs on how chaotic it is and it's not quantifiable.
I'd akin it to the chaos factor that arises when you play citadels with 6+ and are trying to sus out who might be who.
I think a key point was missed here : it's a good SIX PLAYER game!
It's fun, doesn't have excessive downtime, plays in about an hour, and feels like an actual game instead of a party or filler game. Also not Social Deduction. There aren't too many 6p games that do this, and I feel this is what makes this game stand out from the crowd.
Zee mentions it briefly and Tom's recent video does a bit better highlighting the player count, but I feel that player count should have been talked about a bit more here. This is a great 5-6p game for all ages and experience levels
??? Wendy and Chris talk about it plenty here
The designer of the original Libertalia (Paolo Mori) also redesigned Libertalia: Winds Of Galecrest.
And??? Doesn’t mean it was for the better or for the worst.
@@oneANGRYelf true but so many people made a big deal of changing the theme and the designer said it was never a pirate game until the publisher made it that way. So it's just a small thing to say the original designer came up and approved the changes made.
That is true. And ……. ????
Why is everyone so negative to this comment. It wasn't specified in the video and someone may wonder about this. The question is answered. And this does speak to Zee saying mechanically the game is an improvement over the original. The art and graphic design is Stonemeier, not Paolo Mori.
@@oneANGRYelf For the worst. lol
I got to play this at DTW and thoroughly enjoyed it! I've never touched the original, but now I'm curious about checking it out on Board Game Arena. I can understand some of the complaints about the art when placed alongside the original, but it doesn't personally bother me at all, and I'm hoping the more colorful look will help it feel more accessible to new players.
Not if you’re colorblind. ;)
Libertalia was impossible to find in my area, I'll finally be able to jump in with this new version.
Surprise of the review is a 7 from Wendy.
That commentary felt much more like a 5… seems like she held back her score. If that feedback is a 7 I can’t imagine what a 4-5 would be.
I definitely debated between a 6.5 and a 7, but at the end of the day I felt like it was a good competently made game. There were no issues with balance design or game play, and components/art factor very little in my scores. I personally dont care much about looks as long as there are no usability issues. Mechanically this just didn't sing to my tastes, but I feel like I can recomend it to plenty of people.
For me a "fine" game is a 6 to 6,5, doesn't stands out, but I would play. A 4 or 5 would be a game that I dislike and don't want to play. So, 7 isn't far from this.
Scoring rubric is certainly what makes being a reviewer difficult!
I tend to think more like BGGs scoring criteria. 5 means take it or leave it, which for me is where most of my “fine” games tend to live. Appreciate the insight into your score though, thanks!
As someone who never played the original game and have only played this new edition in a 2 player setting, I think the midshipman is such a clever 2-player mechanism. We've been having nothing but fun with it! As for the art, some will like it some won't, that's the nature of artwork. The art has never offended me, I actually find it visually really interesting, much more so than if it were bland "Pirates of the Caribbean" copy cat art. That aesthetic style of pirate is married to the mid-2000s in my mind and just feels tired and aged.
Wow! I was very surprised at the review of this game. We played tonight and it was an amazing game! Everyone that played was raving about it. Came here expecting a bunch of 9’s and positive thoughts, but a very meh review. Can’t say I agree at all with you all on this one. Thanks for all you do though.
Good reviewers look passed the hype.
Gotta agree with the “blending into the current game market” as far as the look of the game goes. I would definitely rather play this version over the original though because I’m more of a mechanisms person but I enjoyed this review a lot! Thanks DT.
Interesting 4 Squares Review! 😊 I preordered this, knowing that it might not be for my gaming group. I bought it because I trust I'll enjoy the solo mode, and the 2 player variant seems smart. Looking forward to playing it. I'm a bit confused about the part where you say that sometimes there is an obvious choice, that everyone would play the same card. I don't find it likely that the same card is best for everyone at any given time, considering that that card will act out pretty differently depending on where you are on the reputation track. Not everyone will get a loot token, for example. So, only for the player who is in a perfect place on the reputation track that card will be the obvious choice. Or am I missing something? I haven't played the game yet. 🙂
Pretty much agreed - while this version does fix a few of the problems of the original those problems it's not like those problems ruined the game or anything and having them 'fixed' certainly doesn't make up for all the personality and flavour that is missing from this version.
RE the tiebreaker: I've been toying with proxying a reputation system with those flag tokens in original and maybe having a tiebreaker system a la Nidavellir.
There is already one on BGG utilising the flags. It's a very clean and good one.
Great idea! Please go into some more detail.
The reputation system is one of the main improvements of the new game. But I MUCH prefer the art of the original game. And will be keeping my copy!
@@nerzenjaeger please post a link!
Just got my copy and love it! New 2p mode is as seamless as Zee points out. It plays so well with larger player counts and just works with a great arc. Surprised with some of the low ratings and wondering what player count they all played it with. 2p can seem underwhelming at times but 4-6 really gets fun...especially relative to other games. I'd probs give it an 8.5 or 9 tbh, but appreciate the eclectic views of the 4 square.
You can technically use the 2p variant with the old game but I agree it is a good addition. Most people don't like the new version because of artwork and graphic design.
Thanks for the review. I really like Libertalia and want my own copy, but despite the gameplay improvements and Stonemeier-level component quality I keep running into problems with this theme and art style. My brain just keeps telling me something is off. I'm so torn on getting this or hunting down an over-priced 2nd market 1st edition copy.
I paid a pretty decent amount for a sealed 1st edition, and I am so happy with my purchase and have no regrets. I can't get onboard with the new printing.
Man, I really don't like the retheme. I'm not even sure why. Something about the cutesy fantasy art takes away the bite of pirates murdering each other over treasure.
The talk about the font was funny, I was actually in the process of finding the font because I liked it so much.
I love the artwork! :)
I want to thank Zee for separating art (or illustration) from graphic design. That has been one of my battles when talking about it. A game can have a great art but an awful graphic design; or the other way around; or both great. But they can be analysed differently.
I wish thematic strength, ludonarrative integration, and presentation flavorfulness also get the same treatment from him
My stance is pretty much the same as the guys', specially Zee's (I totally agree with him about the info on the board). Libertalia is one of my favorite games, and this is an overall improvement on the gameplay side of things (mostly, again, I hate the game board). And yet the loss of thematic integration makes me not feel as compelled to try this one as I was with the original, even with the 10 extra cards and the better tie-breaking rule (which are indeed an improvement, but hardly worth full price if you already have the original). I'll pass on this one and wait to see if they redo it in the future again.
But does the theme matter much? I mean, Gizmos has great art on every card but no one I have played it with bothers to look at it.
Real pirates divided up loot based on strict rules, not cardplay anyway.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen Does theme matter at all in board games? Can you combine any game mechanic with any theme? Do some themes work better than others? Interesting questions.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen to the OP and many others, theme does play a big role.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen As for how much theme matters, I think that's something each one of us should think about on their own. Personally, I don't think the theme in Libertalia mattered as much as in other games. However, it's integration helped the game have a very charismatic table pressence, much more personality, and it simply felt more charming in general IMO.
I think we're mixing theme and setting here. The theme is still pirates, the setting is now fantasy rather than "romanticized" swashbuckling pirates.
Treasure Planet was the first thing I thought of too. I love that movie so I am very excited for this.
I agree with much of what Camilla said... except I score the game higher like Zee (original is 8/10, new one 7.5/10)
The criticism of "often obvious choices" is valid. The original game has a solution that may help for the new one: In the first voyage/week, 9 characters start the game (then 6 + 6 added in next 2 weeks).
So you have much more choice in that first week.
Which also means, players will diverge sooner, so choices in weeks 2 + 3 become less obvious.
I read in Jamey's designer diaries that they reduced the number of characters in week 1 deliberately (as well as reducing week 1 to 4 days) in order to reduce how much info players are frontloaded with.
So I'm probably going to try the following:
- stick to the new game's 4, then 5, then 6 days in weeks 1, 2 and 3 respectively.
- Start the game with 8 characters (for 4 days), then draw 4 more in week 2 (8 for 5 days), then draw 6 more in week 3 (9 for 6 days).
Bit wonky, but fairly simple. And should alleviate the issue hopefully, especially for experienced gamers.
People new to boardgaming, I'll play RAW.
Thanks for very fair reviews.
Regards, Salman
Feedback: I feel the last few 4 Square Reviews have been focused on negative reactions, having a few positive comments at the end of the video. And when you score the game, we realized you guys liked the game. But for most of video, it looks like you hated it.
For me it is easy an 8 or even higher (original print).
Would have been very excited for this if it was still a pirate game. Opportunity to make an even better looking pirate game missed :(
PS: Actually loved the art of the old Libertalia
It was Zee's passion for Libertalia which first turned me on to the original, brilliant to see that passion for the game coming through here still.
I'm really surprised this didn't score higher. I've played this with two 6-player groups, both full of experienced gamers, and everyone loved it. The game is so unique, and there are so few games that work this well with 6 players!
I love Libertalia! I'm surprised Wendy and Camilla didn't like it very much. It's gone over extremely well with all the people to whom I've introduced it. It's basically Citadels or Mission: Red Planet but with many more characters (and which change from game to game and from round to round), and it has a fun Pirates of the Caribbean theme. I think the original is one of the best 6-player games ever and one of the best pirate games ever. And the original game's artwork is just perfect. I'm very happy people who missed out on the first edition can get this new edition now. That said, I really don't like the new artwork and graphic design. I love the reputation track for breaking ties though and the 10 additional character cards. I just feel changing Libertalia's theme into a fantastical steampunk airship theme with anthropomorphized animal characters was a huge misstep. I guess Stegmaier wanted to make the game brighter and more inviting, but it just doesn't work for me, especially the artwork, graphic design, and overall esthetic. Sterile was a good word to describe it. Anyway, I'm keeping my original game. I just wish the first edition had that reputation track and the additional characters.
I wish they'd touched on the player count a bit more. It is definitely one of the better 6p games for me! Plays in about an hour and feels like an actual game instead of a party game
I can agree in almost everything you said but saying the original Libertalia was one of the best pirate games ever… hmmmm 🤔
It’s like saying Trajan is one of the best civilization games ever. The theme is only present on the illustrations. When i talk to people about modern games and if they like to play a pirate game, they imagine a game where they can sail and have great battles, find treasures, steal gold. Not playing cards with illustrations of some pirates.
But with 6 players maybe there aren’t many pirate games out there.
However this game could be one of the best out there.
Har Har matey
I like the art, I am sure Jamie and SM team will get card issues fixed.
I was curious to see this at DTW this year. My game group glanced at the copy out at Hot Games and ended up checking out the original version from the library instead. We played three rounds that night and had people come around the table to watch and chat about the differences/improvements. The consensus was slanted in favor of the original in almost every way. One of our group picked up an original copy at the Flea Market later in the convention and it will be a favorite at game nights to come. We all took a hard pass at the new printing.
I had the same half and half warped cards. I also felt like it was missing a "piratey" feel. I liked it, but I expected a bit more.
Without having played it, I have heard that the solo mode for this game is exceptional (per Rahdo). So if that is the case, then that is a major plus over the original, where solo play wasn't even an option.
Out of curiosity, I went around my office and asked all of my co-workers which of the two covers they would prefer to play. It was 15-1 in favor of the original. Doesn't mean much, but it was interesting to me.
Wow, nice work. I think that's some decent evidence that the new theme was indeed a misstep.
Well yeah…most people hear “pirates”, they don’t think of The Island of Dr. Moreau characters laughing on flying pirate ships. Lmao
Your office I'm guessing is made up of basically the same kind of people, in the same economic bracket, around the same age.
@@chauveet No. Aside from the economic part.Though I'm guessing you didn't read the part where I stated that it didn't mean much.
@@typerk2388 at the end of the day, you were insinuating that your sample size must mean something very profound.
It's interesting that Zee says that you'll probably like the game more without experience from the original, and yet the 2 reviewers that did not play the original scored the game lower.
But that’s cause he personally digs this kind of card play game a lot. Don’t get so caught up in numbers
@@CresentSoul That's fair. I wouldn't get so caught up in comments that are simple observations.
Well one is more of a euro gamer and the other is a more in your face player. The gameplay isn't their thing.
Too small sample size
different sized cards is SO common now and I hate it. makes shuffling by hand impossible. Ares Expedition was the same exact way. hate it!
I wish I could get a copy of the original, always see it going a little too expensive for an old 2nd hand game, so for now I'm pre-ordered on this, but I wish I had the original 😔
What does Roy think of this one?
Mike? :)
@@kchorst5037 Nah I want to hear from Roy Cannaday :)
As someone who just early doesn't understand the allure of pirates (i.e. I REALLY don't like pirates) I quite like the new aesthetic. But who knows how I would feel about the aesthetic after actually playing it.That said, I'm someone who still doesn't enjoy the look of Azul, that is until I get those little bakelite tiles in my actual hands.
Say “fine” again. Say “fine” again, I dare you…
About the original tie breaker versus the new reputation track... It seems most people don't like the old system and think the new one is better. While I'm yet to play the new one, one of the main differences (as far as tie breakers go) is that all the information is available to all players, whereas with the original you only knew what your tie breaker number was. In the original this then added to the risk and the cerebral out thinking (especially in lower player counts). Say we're playing a 3-player game and my tie breaker number is 2 then I know that it is likely that both of the other players will out do me so I might look for another option. But if my tie breaker number is 4, then I might be willing to play that card - all depending on what loot is available.
Judging by this and other reviews, I think a positive about the reputation track is the way it can be manipulated to gain money with some cards added an extra layer of play.
The original Libertalia is #4 on my top 10 games of all time. I've ordered the new one but not received it yet. Like most here, I'm not so keen on the new art work from what I've seen but it may be more appealing to my kids.
I've played a couple of 2 player games with my 11 year old and so I'm looking forward to trying the new 2 player version in this, which could always be used with the original version by making a hypothetical 15.5 card and putting out 3 booty tiles.
Hoping that the next time the games gets reprinted, as unlikely as that is, they keep a lot of this games play but revert back to the grittier pirate artwork.
I agree, the only problem the old system had, was, that some colors simply were stronger than others. Which is suboptimal, but in a game like this, not a big deal.
It's a bit ironic that Camilla brings up Mr. Cuddington with the art and Zee calls out the graphic design. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Mr. Cuddington worked on the graphic design for this one.
I don't understand Camilla's comments about "obvious" plays. Once you have played a time or two, yes, everyone at the table knows the "obvious" play. It's part of the design, getting people thinking "Hmm, there is an obvious play, but will people actually make it? Is there something better I can slip in, since most may/will make the obvious play? Or will everyone do that, and I SHOULD make the obvious play?"
Obvious play means: there usually is a certain card you should play and it makes little to no sense for you to play a different one. That's often true in Libertalia. If the hands wouldn't diverge at some point, this would be a massive problem with this game. As it is, it's one of its many smaller flaws.
@@nerzenjaeger You seem to have completely missed my point.
The art and imagery just can't hook me at all. I did not buy Libertalia because I'd hear that it had some small issues in rules, now they seem to have erased those issues which is great, but one of the constant temptations of the original was the awesome theme and art, and that is totally vanished for me. End result, I have plenty of games and I just can't see myself regularly pulling this off the shelf. Very sad, seems like so much potential just not ever quite realised.
"Libertalia: Winds of Someplace" I'M DEAD!
Winds of forgettable art. I am so glad I have the original.
I love Libertalia! I was so happy to hear of the reprint. But man, I do not like this new theme at all. The whole "airship-anthropomorphic-cartoon-pirate" thing really turns me off... I think this was misstep.
Compared to most people commenting, I have both versions of the game, so I can tell the differences in real life, not from my internet soapbox. I disagree very much with Zee in regards to the graphic design. The text of the old cards is really hard to read, while the new one is crisp and can be read in different light settings. The old art was a straight remake of pirate of the Caribbean, while this has a lot more creativity and gender representation (women are only the daughter of X in the old game). I liked a comment earlier when someone mentioned that if the old game came out now, the reviewers and the comments would be saying that it looks like a copy and paste of every pirate game in the market, which it does.
The game design is much better, previously there were some decks that were worse just because of the tiebreaker. The ability to change the token's meaning is superior, and for people with disabilities or mobility issues, the current bakelite tokens are much better.
Great review. I have never played the original version so I was excited to learn about this game with fresh eyes. However, I have been on the fence since the game was revealed and have not had something stand out that pushes me towards getting a copy. There is something about the graphical design that just feels off. Maybe a bit more grit to the vibrant backdrop would of worked. This unfortunately is a pass for me at the moment.
Take a shot everytime Wendy says fine. You’ll be out before the review ends.
I’m surprised Tom wasn’t in this review because he had the highest score for the game. Even though we got his thoughts in the comparison doesn’t they affect the seals?
I think you've got the Final Scores at 0:27....
Should have been 27:45
I remember 5 years ago when i start my hobby on board games, i start watching The Dice Tower, the game was referenced many times, and they were always saying how great this pirate game was. I thought: “Pirate game 😃!!! The cover is amazing, this game must be awesome. I must watch how the game plays”. I was imagining you being a pirate travelling trough seas, stealing treasures, having battles. And I remember my frustration to see that the only pirate thing in the game were the illustrations on the cards. That was about it. The theme? Could be anything.
It’s funny how some people are so sad/annoyed for the fact that they don’t feel the pirate theme anymore with the new version.
5 years ago i was surprised about people saying how great this pirate game was. Now, I’m not, because i played many games, that now i can find a theme in games (specially in Euro Games) even if there is almost no theme there. And i admit, i’m not so excited when i see a good cover.
Resuming: Our prospective of a thematic game changes over the years.
The graphic design of this game is baffling. One obvious example: one side of the box has the title against a similarly-colored background so that the title is almost illegible. How did no one see that? How will that present in stores?! But I loved this game. The interplay of the card ranking and reputation (from the designer's other game, Dogs of war) is amazing, and complicates decisions about when to play what in a fun way. The art makes the game look family-friendly, and I think that is a great success. Could it have been different and still achieve that? Sure! But on its own it's still doing good stuff.
Give it a year Stonemaier and release Libertalia Skull and Crossbones edition and give it the proper pirate vibe then you may get a few more takers
Wendy the components snob... haha
I love the original so much but never get to play it due to the player count. I’m interested in this one due to the solo and 2 player versions, but man I HATE this new artwork. It is just ugly to me. I am really disappointed in the direction that Stonemaier took here. I’ve considered “upgrading” for the new play modes but this review kind of dissuaded me from that. Still under consideration but I’m less inclined to get the new version now.
The new theme and not much different in this one will keep the original in my collection and I won’t bother with this one.
I was hyped when I heard this was getting remade and through stonemaier at that. However I don't like the artwork so I'll be taking a pass on this printing. Maybe the art tested well in their focus groups and I wish them the best. But I'm hoping Vasel's law will come around again for this game.
yea me too, dont like the artwork .. i dont mind the game changed the theme to fable, but the artwork looks like a prototype game
As someone who has playtested for them, I don’t think any stage of playtesting is shown artwork. If feedback is given on artwork, it’s done outside their playtesting. I would have said something about the art when I playtested this, I like the mechanisms but am not a fan of the artwork. (Kind of felt the same about red-risings art).
> But I'm hoping Vasel's law will come around again for this game.
This is it, my dude
I sooo want to make a One Piece re-skin for for this game...
Zee Garcia wins this episode definitely.
It was a contest, afterall.
I'm in the minority here, but I'm actually glad they changed the art style. There are SO many board games with the classic "Pirates of the Carribean," style art, and I already own several: Jamaica, Dead Men Tell No Tales, Tortuga 1667, and Skull King. I actually avoided Libertalia because the saturated grimy pirate theme has been done to death. I'm definitely not knocking the excellent art of the original, but the fact that the box isn't guilded/gold/treasure themed actually makes the game noticeable on my shelf.
I personally like the art. Much more table presence.
7 is "fine?" What's a 6?
A 7 can be fine if you think the game is good, but it doesn't get you excited.
After watching this I'm almost sure they won't redo it in the future. It was a strong "pirate" game and now it's just a card game with a board... and this is not the best card game ever. The first one was really captivating - the ship, the characters. However, I was very interested in the initiative system - whether they change it or not and after watching this I think the first edition could benefit greatly by being added a bidding phase before every round or cruise. For example everyone bids blindly and this sets the order for the week, and in case of a tie the secoundary numbers might be used as an additional tiebreaker. And then maybe whenever you lose in a tied situation you get a coin for recompensation. This would make it more strategic probably.
There's a very good tie-breaker system on BGG that uses the big flag tokens from the original. Does very similar things to the reputation system, but even simpler.
Sooo disappointed with the artwork. It's so off putting that I can't even consider buying it. If I could just get the new cards (with the old art style) and the plastic bits, I would hunt down an original version and use them there. Huge mistake with the art style change imo. The game itself would be an 8 for me, but the art/theme is so bad it drags it down to a 4 or 5 for me.
The hate on the artwork is ultra baffling to me.Just because the original has a more serious artwork, doesn't mean the remake has to look the same. I'm glad they take a new direction with the art because I personally think it looks great. It's the opposite of the original, more like a fantasy pirate than a serious burly ones, but I guess people just want a re-print?
Yes the graphic design looks like a tax form or chemistry textbook :(
"It's fine" definitely is not a 7 for me. A seven for the dice tower standards is an "approved" game. "It's fine" doesn't sound like something someone should "approve" or "recommend"
Happily, I (Tom) am giving it a seal of excellence, so huzzah!
Agreed I was also surprised after the discussion to see them rating this a 7. I always thought of 7 as a fun game that you'd suggest if the mood strikes. Never got the impression that they would ever suggest playing this game. Obviously they rate things differently and I'm really curious what a review of a 5 would be like :O.
Sounding bored for 15 minutes should not be a 7/10. As this staff gets larger, they may need some training on how to review or explain yourself.
Sometimes you can't say everything you'd like in a review, especially with four people at the table. Sometimes negatives come across stronger than positives in a review too.
Sorry if I sounded to harsh, didn't mean to. I was just scratching my head about how that opinion of a game lead to an approval (And I mean specifically about Wendy, I understand that if other members give a higher score that determines the seal). It would be great to know a little bit more about the things that lead to they opinions, specially because you're starting to develope a great and diverse team. Regards to all of you :)
The gameplay improvements are enough to boost this version a point above the original version for me. I bought it and will be selling my old copy...for pure gameplay, I have no reason to ever play the original again. A lot of people prefer the original artwork and Pirates of the Caribbean theme, but this update does go a long way in making the game more appealing to families in 2022 than a reprint of the original artwork and theme would have.
Couldn’t agree more. I wouldn’t have looked twice at the original as I primarily play with my husband and children. I feel like this version will make it to the big box stores and reach a lot more new gamers.
@@felicitycarter79 makes sense. But not everyone has children and there are people who like realistic and gritty. :)
@@oneANGRYelf We play Scythe too and the art is amazing. Most of the other Stonemaier games have “real” people - I think only My Little Scythe has anthropomorphic animals. Games like Everdell and Root have been extremely popular. Not surprised they went in this direction.
Having spent time on some islands I think the colour palate is on point. Love the calm / stormy board. Hopefully it appeals to a wider audience and the ones that want the old theme can buy the original printing.
I'm guessing they changed the art to appeal to a wider Wingspan-esque audience.
Yes, I agree. My 1st impression was "it looks like Wingspan".
Interesting. I hate being this cynical but I was wondering if the anthropomorphic animals was a way of sidestepping race (and not misrepresenting one with too many negative characters) after adding more female characters.
@@kchorst5037 I had the same thought and I would be willing to bet that’s why they went this direction
Cruel mistake!
@@kchorst5037 based on everything Jamey says, that seems correct. I figured it would be a mistake when he started highlighting representation but also wanted to make a game about pirates.
It's more windwaker than Jack sparrow, which I personally don't prefer
The kidyfying of designer games continues to be more mainstream appealing but pleasing no one.
The art is overused indie video game artwork.
I agree that the art is forgettable and that the iconography is not that good. I am not sure about reputation. It is more interesting earlier on where you have only six cards, but once you start to have a more diversified hand later on it seems to matter much less, as ties are less frequent. Still better than the original.
I like the artwork, seems fun and whimsical. I like that. Seems like I am in the minority though.
Whimsical is fine. But it also lacks reason for its look. It all just seems a bit random. Like why are they animals? And on top of that why are they magical?
If they integrated it better I think less people would have issue. Give it some lore or flavour. For example, zelda waker does whimsical pirates very well.
Will need to try it (I buy everything Stonemaier). Funny how average/above average ratings generate such down-beat discussion for Stonemaier games from DT
I'll ask a very naive question : Could it be SM games become this middle of the road trying to please everyone?
... Or could it be there is a disconnect between what Jamey want as a designer and as a publisher?
(gasp) Are you saying a board game company wants to sell as many games as possible, instead of pleasing a small niche?
@@TorIverWilhelmsen (Gasp) I guess Monopoly is above reproach as well.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen I just say you can't please everyone and by trying to please to anyone, you have chance to please to no one.
I know It's a stretch when I say it like this , but I don't want to write an essay on this... you probably understand my point.
It was 1 point on a 5 years old-ish top 10 list from the DT about "STOP..." for publisher and designer.
Jamey S like mature theme: pirate, war, dystopia, but seems to have lost it's touch trying to dilute those very heavy themes through light hearted cosmetic.
I like the guy and the company; hopefully, the future will prove me wrong. :)
Don't think it was trying to please everyone. Kept the same theme, changed the setting. Appealed to wider age ranges with the artwork. Who has an easier time getting a game that plays a higher player count, especially in these pandemic times? Families. Look at games that have been doing well lately either on kickstarter or retail, mostly animal or nature themed or vibrant art. Root, Meadow, Wingspan, Tidal Blades, Red Raven games. To me they just went where the consumers seem to be rather than doing dark gritty pirates. To me the game is good and I like both of the artwork directions so I'm getting an expanded and streamlined game.
If a company had a big mainstream success like "Wingspan", they probably tend to want to repeat that with every new product just by targeting the widest audience possible. But that's not how it works, you can't force that by slapping on a sterile theme and art.
Fine reviews but seemed overly negative.
It is easy to focus on negatives when doing group reviews, so it sounded more negative. Also in this case it's also a reprint so I think those of us that played it before didn't discuss as many of the positives. When I give a game a 7.5, that's definitely a good score.
I really like the artwork. I think it gives that optimistic, adventuring, windswept aspect of pirating/sailing instead of the dingy tavern aspect. I don't think there's any disconnect with the theme since if you're a pirate you'll spend most of your time in sunny tropical locations.
Murdering other pirates to steal their loot is always “optimistic”.
@@oneANGRYelf It is when you're a pirate
This deserves more love. The game design is so unique and phenomenal - there's nothing like it out there. The puzzle of trying to outwit everyone else with the same cards is what makes it so fun - and the fact that best laid plans can - and will - get spoiled makes for some great laughs with the right group. The first time someone kills their own pirate is just the best. The game deserves higher praise than it got here.
I'm always confused how a game "deserves" anything. I mean, the overall vibe was pretty good, right?
@@thedicetower “Pretty good” as in lukewarm. The 7 ratings sounded more like 6’s
So wait…they actually have death in this game??? Thought it was family-friendly?
@@oneANGRYelf Yikes.....Seems like your mission to trash this game because it doesn't have freed slaves and #truegrit
@@thedicetower The review was "fine", presentation could use some work though.
Citadels still king
This game is a “fine” game. Yeah that’s the Way I see it too. It does the job but nothing grips me. With 5-6 players it’s basically a slot machine for what happens, too much chaos and the art is ok but a thematic disconnect.
But please stop saying “for me” when you have a negative view. It’s purely there to stop the internet who can’t take less than 10/10 opinions on a game. Just own it, say it’s bad or not very good and be proud of it. It’s your honest thoughts and we know it’s opinion. Fine is more a 6 also 😉
Agreed, they captured my thoughts exactly as well. Had a fine time with it the time I played it on BGA but was pretty forgettable.
I was not a fan of Libertalia... I do not think it is a bad game but... not a fan. This one caught my attention due to the "light hearted art style"... it is different and stylized but I don't think all pirate games need to be dark and gritty. The board looks very clean and optimized but I agree it feels a little bit stale, the tokens definitly helps this game looks even brighter and IMHO are cohesive with the art style.. I would like to try it, it feels "safe" and just... "FINE" 😅
I actually like the new art direction. It's what made me look into the game in the first place. Art is subjective, and plenty of people will like this version. Just look at the BGG forums. Personally, it makes me think of the video games Skies of Arcadia and Tail Concerto. It works for me. 🤷♀
SM has just been missing constantly for me lately. A Libertalia remake should have been a slam dunk. I have the original but was going to buy this one too, until I saw it.
SM really needs to get something right with their next production. It’s been awhile. It’s sad, I very much like the Company and Jamey.
The only games I’ve liked from SM is viticulture , wingspan , scythe.....everything else meh .
I don't know what you mean by "they need to get something right" their games have still been incredibly successful. The closest thing they've had to a financial miss is Pendulum and that was a very unique mix of mechanics that didn't jive with a lot of people, not a low quality game.
@@anthonykuhn3792 Successful perhaps, helped by the strong brand certainly. Nothing I’d buy or keep in my collection. Tapestry was meh and broken. Red Rising was meh. Pendulum… Now completely dropping the ball with Libertalia with some extremely divisive production decisions. I don’t know man. I’m to the point now where I’m expecting to be let down by a SM game. Didn’t use to be that way. Rolling Realms is the best thing they’ve done in a long while.
Not a great trajectory for a company, though they still got legs for days I’m sure.
Like I said. I AM a fan. Just let down and hoping for better.
@@dangerousbeans2907 I'm glad you acknowledge that your opinion is subjective. The main reason I commented is that you seemed to imply that Stonemaier needed to change or it would fail. My game group loves Tapestry and it's rated favorably on BGG. I think you'll find that is the case for Red Rising as well. These games are good and you don't like them. That's okay, but it does not warrant immediate change from Stonemaier to keep you as a customer.
This is the first thumbs down I've ever given to a Dice Tower review. It really does a disservice to the merits of the game. There is so clearly a bias against the publisher. I don't mind a negative review but if that's the way you're going to go, please be consistent. You complain about it looking like a "playtest" copy due to some font choices and background shading? Really? Let's look at the current darling of the Dice Tower, Ark Nova. They didn't even bother to put original artwork in the game. It's straight up stock photos. Also, not sure what you're talking about with the different-sized cards. I've not heard that from other reviewers and my copy is fine. I understand not liking the artwork, I also prefer the original. But to tank the whole review because you don't like the way it looks is not a fair review. It just didn't seem like much time was spent on the actual gameplay. I personally think the graphic design is more clear in this version. They day and dusk symbols looked way too similar in the original. It's very clear here. That's just one example.
Anyway, I would recommend anyone looking for a more consistent and unbiased review, look at a few other reviews as well.
Interesting, I got a different impression. I felt Camilla actually gave a higher score than her take on it. I didn't see any clear bias against the publisher. Looking at the Ark Nova review, there were complaints about the stock photos and not everyone loved that game as much as Tom. In any case, I didn't think they tank the review. Each one expressed their opinions, which is inherently biased, but without any hidden agenda. Their reviews aren't inherently less honest compared to Tom's comparison video (I see your comment there as well). Some folks say reviewers aren't honest because they aren't negative enough. Others say they aren't honest because they are too negative (usually because it's a game the viewer loves or is invested in). You just can't win.
I say this as a SM champion and ambassador, so I am clearly biased.
You can disagree with our opinions completely, but there's no bias here about the publisher here. For example, I've spoken very positively of Between Two Castles of Mad King Ludwig, Rolling Realms, and the Tapestry Arts and Architecture expansion recently, and many Stonemaier games appeared throughout the top 100 two months ago. Hard to understand where the evidence of the bias is. We believe in shooting straight, if a publisher we like produces a dud, we call it a dud. Also, to be clear, the review here is not calling this game a dud. I'm fine with disagreement, but your comment is calling our integrity into question.
Tom scored it an 8.5 in the comparison review and was far more positive than this 4 square review.
Welcome to the world of opinions.
I think this was miss from Stonemaier games. Graphic design and artwork is not great. I don't think different powers for loot are different enough to warrant them. Reputation track is definitely nicer but a more basic variant that implements tiebreaking like Nidavellir would also work with the previous version. I am really missing the artwork. Will probably try to get the old version if I can or just skip it altogether. I think the game is great but this new edition is "fine".
I give this review a 5.5 or 6. Something everyone seemed afraid to do in the video. Even Zee at 8 Was shocking with the time spent on negative reasons than positive one.
I think Zee was critical about the production. Game itself stays pretty much the same as the original did.
Thank you for the honest review. I think you guys nailed it with the disconnect between gameplay and theme. A pirate game should have a pirate theme, not this generic fantasy nonsense.
I haven't played this game yet, but can you explain where you see a disconnect here? Judging from the explanation, the game doesn't seem thematic to me at all. You could basically slap any generic theme on it. Sure, you may prefer one over the other, but I can't see the bigger problem.
The theme in the original felt pretty pasted on. Libertalia never felt like a pirate game, in the same way Love Letter never feels like a game where you find love lol
@@XCM666 “Judging by the explanation, the game doesn’t seem thematic to me at all”. Well that is the problem. This is supposed to be a pirate game. Players are supposed to be fighting over loot, screwing each other over, like pirates would. It is a theme that makes sense and clicks with the gameplay. If you take the pirate theme away, it undermines the gameplay. Like having animal-like creatures on flying ships: it makes no sense, hence the disconnect.
@@kumanight I don’t think Libertalia has a pasted-on pirate theme. And the fact is, the developers still consider this new edition to be a pirate game, they even have a pirate name-generator on their site for this. But, if we are being honest, it is a stretch calling this a pirate game.
I don't know if it was just the mix of people on the panel, but this "review" was completely unhelpful. It looked like they were bothered just to be there, much too much talk about art and not enough about gameplay.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who came away feeling the negative vibe.
Frustrating for me, because I generally loathe this kind of art and DT usually love it, the one time I think it looks great, they hate it 😂
I usually like art styles like the original, but I like either in this case.
Si the one that really knows the game gives it an 8. Not really listening to Camilla and Wendy this time, thanks Dee.
"Have FINE Gaming" was RIGHT THERE!
All the lizard people i have met have been pirates! Love the Art.
I hate the new art style Stonemaier Games chose!
After waiting so long for a reprint of "Libertalia", it is super frustrating to see that they made it into something different and it just doesn't fit!
The game is not the best and it is certainly not essential, so just don't buy it.
So you were waiting for a reprint to a game that you don't think is even that good?
@@codydavis3100 I said it's not the best. Technically only one can be the best or if you want a selected few.
"Libertalia" can still be fun, but it's not a game for everyone. It's main positives were the pirate theme and the artworks. The new Stonemaier version basically dropped both those aspects.
Everyone talks about the art being too different, or “not matching,” but I’d honestly be very curious if this was reprinted as a traditional piratey grim look if everyone’s review would have changed to “yet another pirate game, nothing to set it apart.”
I did not like the animal art. It doesn't feel like a pirate game. The original art with the current design would have been great
I wanted the pirate theme. This new look is unappealing to me. Always wanted this game but not like this. Pass.
In summary, the game is fine.
I don't mean to be rude, but the art does not work for me at all. It's like a kid cereal box approach. The animals...just weird. I suppose it has worked in the past - e.g. Mafiozoo.
Or Beasty Bar! It just doesn't work for Libertalia, I feel.
Great game but they missed the mark going for a vanilla mainstream family game look.
I have a feeling this game will see way more copies than the original did even with the Tabletop effect back in the day.
@@codydavis3100 Probably, but I would bet that's because board gaming is a lot more trendy now in general
@@uplift-yourdailypickup6424 true but if the game was just reprinted from the original publisher and nothing changed I don't think it would do as much as this newer one.
@@codydavis3100 I'm not quite sure on that, but you may be right. Hard to tell as it seems like a lot of people don't like the retheme, but they might just be the ones speaking the loudest. Will be interesting to see how well this one does
@@uplift-yourdailypickup6424 I'll be interested too. It's already sold a few thousand in pre-orders and I can see people at Target or Barnes and Noble seeing the artwork and the player count and being drawn to it.