@@Swatmat Problem is that CIG started 3-4 years ago talking about economy. Then last year it turns out only one man on part time have been working on Economy. That´s totally insane in a game where Economy is EVERYTHING
EVE and Elite Dangerous, shoot even X4 Origins know how to make a player economy. CIG can't even make elevators that work or cleanup scripts for space junk. They have proven over the last decade they are just going to ignore/avoid building a decent and healthy economy where players can flourish. Mission rewards that don't even cover the cost of restocking the ship, negligible stock for trade goods and commodities, and laughable buy order sizes for the global pool just murders core gameplay and player fun. Star Citizen has become the most unfun game over the last 2 years and as a long time backer, I feel double crossed.
This is why I don't play anymore. I don't want to come home and get stressed the fuck out more than I am at work. The more I watch videos about Star Citizen, the more I agree with Shroud.
The fact that so many things are still in flux with this game after so long really burns me out on even the concept of the game. Been a backer and tester for ten years and it just feels like we're never going to get there because cig can't pick something and stick with it. I'm tired of learning, unlearning and relearning things.
To be fair, finding a used component in salvage would make it worth significantly less than the same new part. Personal opinion: the most rewarding finds should be the ones you want to keep rather than sell.
ya i like to grab stuff from larger ships i cant use. ill still do it regardless of the lower profits. I could sell it to players at half shop cost and still make huge money. a s4 attrition is now 164k in teh shop. if i can save a player half that and earn half that im sitting in a good place.
But if you find A grade modules, even not new, you can sell them as second hand and make money. Its only cost you time so they will still be profitable. Welcome to the player black market economy.
If youre sitting at or near a point of interest in pyro in a non combat ship, you honestly deserve the respawn. You shouldnt even do that in stanton, but people would rather just complain instead of using their brains
@@cornervillain838 That's very short sighted. Salvage wrecks and mineable rocks are POIs too. Combat isn't the end all be all of this game. In b4 "bring escorts".
@@Gofr5 its not shortsighted, its just the consequence. This is the same exact response people deserve for leaving their ship open and then run off to do w/e, and then it gets stolen. At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own mistakes. You know POI have much higher traffic, so much higher likely to run into a "pirate". If you are ok with that, then you also have to be ok with getting respawned in a city
@@cornervillain838 Question. Why is a combat ship just sitting at an asteroid field then? What interest does that POI have to them? They can't mine, so why are they there?
I am fine with them removing info from websites, if they provide it in-game. Tabbing out to look at a website is not exactly ideal for a game like this.
Mining is a joke, salvage you don't need any outlay (mining heads, modules, gadgets) and the reward is higher and far easier and safer. This is needs a huge overhaul.
Idk about mining specifically but I think keeping numbers from players and making everything anecdote is a great strategy for reducing META. There still is a META but people have to argue and disagree over what it is. And if they want scientific data. they gotta do scientific testing.
Meh. Until there is an actual supply and demand system in the background as well as a player based Auction House, the economy in Star Citizen will be non existent. WoW did this and it worked. Star Wars Galaxies had player owned stores. This is the way.
I imagine with base building, youll be able to do make shift store fronts. Because so far, the only store ships we have are the BMM and that one drake ship which are extremely expensive so rare, and not even close to release
EVE online as well. There is a base NPC market to set the trend, but that's it, basically setting the ceiling of what they want the prices to be worth in the highest most extreme demand, after that, every player just under cuts the NPCs, and the real economy begins.
Yes. There is no economy. I don't even understand why they do this. Just make up some numbers until trading is in. There is no real benefit being rich currently. Ye you can buy the big ship which has no corresponding content wow.
As a salvager one of my favorite things to do was go around and find player ships that were destroyed or abandoned and salvage the components/weapons and then the hull. I stopped playing because there was no point in doing that, the price for player ship components was so low it was pointless. I don’t see the fun in accepting a contract to salvage a scripted ship that was spawned near a Lagrange point, that, to me, is insanely boring.
crowd sourcing drop rates / spawns should be possible and I think will give a few people joy. until they have a large enough sample size its cool to not have a meta
Nice opened up the vid with my Twitch comment lol, definitely been waiting on this one, gotta walk before we can crawl. Sure, we've been testing for over a decade but the main focus has obviously been on advancing the game's technology, not gameplay itself. This is a big step towards getting the economy's foundation laid out before crafting, quality of items, and mass trading making a true player based economy. W vid
Maybe it'll get better for a couple weeks while all the griefers go over to Pyro to check it out, but then they'll be back when they get tired of getting clapped by actual fighter pilots instead of just sealclubbing prospectors.
My only thing is, why would I mine now instead of salvage? Salvage is easy. You got contracts telling you where to go, some even pay you. You get your materials and move on. You go down to the planetside and sell your materials at the TDD. Done. Mining? No idea where to go for the good stuff now. Even when you did, it still required ages of searching for mineable rocks and EVEN THEN finding GOOD mineable rocks. Finally when you are done mining eventually, you have to go to a refinery, pay and wait for your materials to be refined, load them up hours or even days later on a cargo ship, and then FINALLY sell them. Mining is so much extra work compared to salvaging and it doesn't even pay out more to make up for that difference. I love mining, but as is, I see no reason to do it over the much easier, much faster, and thus much more lucrative salvaging.
Yeah ship mining has always sucked. ROC mining is more fun but yes from a pure min/max aUEC per hour standpoint salvage has always been better. Even during the era of "make millions in an hour mining quant" youtube guides, they always disingenuously handwaved away the fact you have to wait LITERALLY AN ENTIRE REAL LIFE DAY to get your product and go sell it.
@@jrsydvl7218 there really isn't mass though without gravity or a pull. Like humans weigh less on the moon, and we can float a bit from jumping. Have you ever been to a NASA center they usually have a weight scale to see your weight on different planets or moons.
@@slumpdogyt You're not realizing gravity is a force. When you change direction or acceleration, you're applying a force. Mass affects the force needed.
While I agree with much of what you’re saying, the data removal points I don’t agree with. You said you saw a video of someone saying “9 scu in pyro” and that got you excited enough to jump in game and play, but you’re saying you’d rather have just looked at some spreadsheets? Sounds like they added some actual exploration back to the game.
Until the pertinent information is available in-game, reliably, datamining is all we have. Go ahead and look at weapons and components in-game and tell me what each one does. You literally can't. Try again next time.
No data that you can get off of a website???? It’s almost like they might be getting ready for exploration and data running. Seriously what data would you be selling if a website had all the location information for this stuff? You aren’t supposed to know where it can be found. That’s the whole point of exploration and data running. Maybe that’s what they are beginning to do
Mining, salvage, and cargo hauling are all the same in this regard. Learning how to find the thing that gets you the game dollars is part of the game. The entire theme of not having experience points and magic character levels, that just make you magically better at everything, is based on the idea that you, the player, will get better at doing the things you do in game. All of the guys I play with are happy when they overhaul these game loops because we've already mastered the previous meta. A new system is like rolling a new character that you get to level again as you figure out how the new system works.
Thanks for the Video SaltEMike. I agree with the new Insurance thing. There was a show where someone suggested Blueprints to recraft your ship along with the required materials, and it took time to make your ship. The same could be true for weapons.
If you thought the Q&A team for CIG was bad at their job, the people working on Star Citizens economy are more incompetent than a government employee. They have no idea what they are doing and every change and update makes things worse. I dont hate often on SC, i rather enjoy the game, but man does the lack of basic common sense when it comes to game economy balance get to me. They actively make the game less enjoyable, or even unplayable, when they try to "balance" the economy
100% I like being blind. I dont want to know, I want to see people chatting sharing success and fail stories, me accidently falling over a rock and finding a score of mine-ables. this is kinda like playing world of warcraft vanilla the first few years vs 2024. once the data is crunched and the meta is found, no one plays different.
Need to consider the refining aspect. Can’t just consider volume/weight on the raw resource. Your example of price per kg or worth your weight in gold isn’t raw gold. It’s refined material. Not saying it’s the wrong view, just more so that you’re not comparing apples to apples in your analogy. Great discussion though. Cheers!
Yeah thats true lol. It should be by mass. I think that was what he meant because people are used to just saying weight interchangeably in real life because we are not exactly leaving Earth lol. Mass for a specific solid object doesn't change depending on gravity, weight is relative to gravity.
Wouldn't it be good for the data to not be in the game? Only say that because if it's in the game then there isn't much of a reason to explore to find what is out there. Everyone will just immediately know the best place to go and we miss that whole exploration part at the beginning.
I don't agree with data mining games, it's like getting into an escape room and pulling out the phone and reading a guide on how to solve it, not as extreme in this case but it still takes away from figuring stuff out for yourself, on the other hand it saves time. The argument of oh just don't use it doesn't really work bc it gives unfair advantage same stuff what Mike said about not getting rid of his paid ships. Unfair advantage. So I just prefer there are no tools like this
Not really sure what the problem is to be honest. It's a new resource distribution system, of course there's no data on it yet. Surely part of the fun is finding out for yourself?.
It really doesnt matter if you calculate in weight or volume, only important thing is how much is it worth, and how much i can carry. By the way gasoline in Gallon is also a volume messure
I mined with an org for years before Red Monster published his charts. His info was good, but it's not like no one knew how to mine before that. It's just something that you learn with experience. Even with the mining overhaul they did a while back, I still bring in the occasional quantanium load. I heard a rumor that Pyro has asteroid belts like Stanton, and if so, that's where I will be, making millions.
I played it for the first time in a long time. The fact that the screens don't really work other than the ASOP terminal and its all-helmet HUD, it seems less immersive.
As someone who gave up on following this game years ago, CGIs updates only make me more confused and likely to continue being checked out. Salty is the only guy I can tolerate - even if I’m not following the CGI messaging.
Just a thought, but youldnt you charge by Volume when you you're a space fairing society? Because you're then constrained by the space in ships and gravity is different on celestial bodies?
Recent loophole? Isn't that why resale has always been abysmal? About as time efficient as selling white helmets for generating "large" amounts if aUEC.
It's more logical to function it by volume than weight, without gravity masse in not a think. So you just try to fill your ship. If it not profitable it an other think, it's a balance between time and value. And there is a lot of way to adjust this. I hqve never mined but if when you scan you have only weight value it could be interesting to have the possibility to switch to volume value.
Gold and Silver are priced in Ounces and purity. Typically a silver commodity contract is for 5,000 Troy ounces of .999 fine purity silver. This means the silver has be highly refined to 99.9% purity.
i think it is better not having in game info about locations. harder to min max when you have to explore and find out for yourself. this is a game not a IRL job. what's the rush?
While ship duping is always a issue in SC (I’ve had days where I can’t play because most areas I travel to are littered with ship dupes) I don’t think droping ship part prices like that is the way to do it. IMO if they are actually concerned about the economy in the game they need to bring in a player market. On the mining side I’ve only done it a few times but haven’t explored it as much. If I’m setting up a repair shop in the future with no real player economy to help me stock parts I will have to pick up the trade though
I found stileron during EPTU but it was unsellable as ore and worth 1 aUEC per SCU refined. ice and silicon were minable, silicon wouldn't go in your bags and ice would vanish at refinement. I'm sure they updated things for 4.0 preview... >.>
It doesn't matter whether you price resource in weight or volume for a game, lol - both *are* quantity. We measure minerals in weight because popping something on the scales gives you immediate value.
what are you talking , they can price ice at 100uec/scu , riccite at 10000000uec/scu , the unit is not important here , also fewer scu means you move those boxes faster
I dont think they have the talent to create a “no man sky” type exploration/gameplay with current mmo/economy/mechanics…I honestly don’t think they have the talent for it.. they keep shoveling shit against the wall and seeing what sticks
Wait, that's how mining works? So if you get a heavy rock, with a low density base material, you'll get more volume, but the cost of the rare stuff in it determines the value? That seems.... Wrong...
"used" or "preowned" ship components should sell for less than new though... this is done in literally every video game ever and also in real life, vendoring an item is never a money making idea.
I think they could do it on something very small scale and easy to do. Anything that has to pioneer new tech is just on a scale most people can't deal with. It's like the soviets in the space race. Korolev was thrown in the gulags over and over because he didn't make what the party bureaucrats thought was sufficient progress.
You’re paid on weight per scu and density is an element of weight and vice versa. 1 scu of ice is super light. 1 scu of Iron is heavy 1 scu of gold is heavy Ice is not valuable, and it’s not dense, so you need a lot of scu to make it valuable Gold, being dense, packs more weight into less space, and the use of gold ads value. Iron being dense packs a similar weight, but is common and lacks value, therefore you need to sell more SCU of iron to equal 1 scu value of gold. With iron and gold in 1 rock, the volume of the rock might be small but the destiny is large, giving you a more 50 to split in density but a lesser value in the gold to iron ratio. If the rock is ice and gold, and the proportion of volume is equal, you will have more gold value than ice. To have equal value of gold to ice, there would need to me much more ice volume to match the more dense gold. This larger rock, being harder to break, not because of its density but because of its volume is absurd. The density and heat sensitivity of the materials would make it harder or easier to break. The ice should break off the gold easier, and therefore the gold should clump together more. They need to switch to 1 substance per rock ASAP. Volume is density, so long as you consider only gold. Or only ice. Or only iron. Comparing ice to gold obviously density is t volume. But value per scu… is value per density. Because gold doesn’t change density from one SCU to another. Until we get purity, gold is gold. And value is density. When bad gold is less valuable per scu than good gold, we are splitting density per scu into subcategories.
no fking way am i taking a prospector to pyro and get clubbed by a sociopath. the amount of random, mindless violence in pyro is going to be inbred mutant cannibal levels, and thats not what i bought into the game for.
Once again CIG punishes everybody for a few people exploiting game mechanics. They are also forcing all industry into group PVP play when there are no features to search for fleets or orgs in game. The further this game comes along in development, the further it seems to be moving away from what was promised all those years ago. You struggle in this game if you don't sink £££'s into it and play with a group of other people. It's turning into a gold plated turd, looks all shiny and good but underneath it's crap....can't even save loadouts or make bookmarks ffs
That was all about mining very little to wirh the economy at all. Why would panels have less scu value in Stanton vs. Pyro, that's crap. Trying to force pvp again
One things for sure, nobody will be buying any equip from componant stores because theyre all stock crap. Irritating i have to buy military A tear stuff from a criminal looter in a failing star system now. Fun gameplay....not
Nice try luring PvE players into Pyro to become content. At least they didn't take minables from Stanton to make them exclusive to Pyro and locked behind contested zones). Personally for me there isn't much interesting stuff in Pyro. Other then contested zones and a few pretty locations there is nothing new. It's just a reskin of Stanton.
That is a bullshit answer as any ship parts or weapons sale prices have always been lower than what they could be purchased for so umm yeah again bullshit.
What I read amounted to...
We have no idea what we are doing or how we are going to get it done. In the meantime, here is a bandaid and some asprin.
There’s an economy? Hadn’t noticed.
sigh
@@Swatmat Problem is that CIG started 3-4 years ago talking about economy. Then last year it turns out only one man on part time have been working on Economy. That´s totally insane in a game where Economy is EVERYTHING
EVE and Elite Dangerous, shoot even X4 Origins know how to make a player economy. CIG can't even make elevators that work or cleanup scripts for space junk. They have proven over the last decade they are just going to ignore/avoid building a decent and healthy economy where players can flourish. Mission rewards that don't even cover the cost of restocking the ship, negligible stock for trade goods and commodities, and laughable buy order sizes for the global pool just murders core gameplay and player fun. Star Citizen has become the most unfun game over the last 2 years and as a long time backer, I feel double crossed.
i legit can't care anymore, i just want a game to play.
Do something else
@@TKanal3 take your own advice
@@TKanal3 good idea lol, lets wait 12 more years, till you write this comment again wohoo 🤣
@@deroace im sure if you have a mental breakdown cig releases the game tomorrow
This is why I don't play anymore. I don't want to come home and get stressed the fuck out more than I am at work. The more I watch videos about Star Citizen, the more I agree with Shroud.
The fact that so many things are still in flux with this game after so long really burns me out on even the concept of the game. Been a backer and tester for ten years and it just feels like we're never going to get there because cig can't pick something and stick with it. I'm tired of learning, unlearning and relearning things.
I like to take looooooooong breaks from SC , to keep my sanity & not get to pissed at the slow progress. o7
@SuburbanDMV yep. Started only coming around from nov-jan once a year years ago and it's still not enough tbh.
What economy? There is no game economy yet.
Their idea of economy seems to be "people aren't allowed to make money and if they do we need to stop them from being able to."
To be fair, finding a used component in salvage would make it worth significantly less than the same new part. Personal opinion: the most rewarding finds should be the ones you want to keep rather than sell.
ya i like to grab stuff from larger ships i cant use. ill still do it regardless of the lower profits. I could sell it to players at half shop cost and still make huge money. a s4 attrition is now 164k in teh shop. if i can save a player half that and earn half that im sitting in a good place.
Salte always looks on the bright side of life
But if you find A grade modules, even not new, you can sell them as second hand and make money. Its only cost you time so they will still be profitable. Welcome to the player black market economy.
I've been snagging S5 weapons for my Connie whenever I can get one off a bounty.
Prepare your mining ship, venture into pyro and get rekt
honestly been waiting to see how mining would be in pyro. But would need alot of bags to hold that ore if it is good over there
If youre sitting at or near a point of interest in pyro in a non combat ship, you honestly deserve the respawn. You shouldnt even do that in stanton, but people would rather just complain instead of using their brains
@@cornervillain838 That's very short sighted. Salvage wrecks and mineable rocks are POIs too. Combat isn't the end all be all of this game. In b4 "bring escorts".
@@Gofr5 its not shortsighted, its just the consequence. This is the same exact response people deserve for leaving their ship open and then run off to do w/e, and then it gets stolen. At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own mistakes.
You know POI have much higher traffic, so much higher likely to run into a "pirate". If you are ok with that, then you also have to be ok with getting respawned in a city
@@cornervillain838 Question. Why is a combat ship just sitting at an asteroid field then? What interest does that POI have to them? They can't mine, so why are they there?
Am i the only one that hopes detailed ore data is never made public? I like the idea of finding a rich spot that i can monopolize and keep to myself
Bunch of Care Bears want everything in this game to be easy. I’m definitely with you, and I don’t think they’ll change away from this idea.
I am fine with them removing info from websites, if they provide it in-game. Tabbing out to look at a website is not exactly ideal for a game like this.
Mining is a joke, salvage you don't need any outlay (mining heads, modules, gadgets) and the reward is higher and far easier and safer. This is needs a huge overhaul.
Idk about mining specifically but I think keeping numbers from players and making everything anecdote is a great strategy for reducing META. There still is a META but people have to argue and disagree over what it is. And if they want scientific data. they gotta do scientific testing.
Meh. Until there is an actual supply and demand system in the background as well as a player based Auction House, the economy in Star Citizen will be non existent. WoW did this and it worked. Star Wars Galaxies had player owned stores. This is the way.
I imagine with base building, youll be able to do make shift store fronts. Because so far, the only store ships we have are the BMM and that one drake ship which are extremely expensive so rare, and not even close to release
EVE online as well. There is a base NPC market to set the trend, but that's it, basically setting the ceiling of what they want the prices to be worth in the highest most extreme demand, after that, every player just under cuts the NPCs, and the real economy begins.
@@Cramblit
That's a great start
Yes. There is no economy. I don't even understand why they do this. Just make up some numbers until trading is in. There is no real benefit being rich currently. Ye you can buy the big ship which has no corresponding content wow.
There is no game yet, worrying about a non-existent economy is futile.
An actual economy is not a thing in the SC universe .
As a salvager one of my favorite things to do was go around and find player ships that were destroyed or abandoned and salvage the components/weapons and then the hull. I stopped playing because there was no point in doing that, the price for player ship components was so low it was pointless. I don’t see the fun in accepting a contract to salvage a scripted ship that was spawned near a Lagrange point, that, to me, is insanely boring.
Thorsten is one of my favorite devs. He makes the things I enjoy most and he seems very genuine.
crowd sourcing drop rates / spawns should be possible and I think will give a few people joy. until they have a large enough sample size its cool to not have a meta
Nice opened up the vid with my Twitch comment lol, definitely been waiting on this one, gotta walk before we can crawl. Sure, we've been testing for over a decade but the main focus has obviously been on advancing the game's technology, not gameplay itself. This is a big step towards getting the economy's foundation laid out before crafting, quality of items, and mass trading making a true player based economy. W vid
I love how they go "we're making a huge change to the economy!!! It's just us tracking more info for the economy!!"
ok...wow.
Economy changes until the next economy changes release. And the next. And the next.
Staying in Stanton, thank you. I have enough shit to worry about as it is.
Maybe it'll get better for a couple weeks while all the griefers go over to Pyro to check it out, but then they'll be back when they get tired of getting clapped by actual fighter pilots instead of just sealclubbing prospectors.
My only thing is, why would I mine now instead of salvage? Salvage is easy. You got contracts telling you where to go, some even pay you. You get your materials and move on. You go down to the planetside and sell your materials at the TDD. Done. Mining? No idea where to go for the good stuff now. Even when you did, it still required ages of searching for mineable rocks and EVEN THEN finding GOOD mineable rocks. Finally when you are done mining eventually, you have to go to a refinery, pay and wait for your materials to be refined, load them up hours or even days later on a cargo ship, and then FINALLY sell them.
Mining is so much extra work compared to salvaging and it doesn't even pay out more to make up for that difference. I love mining, but as is, I see no reason to do it over the much easier, much faster, and thus much more lucrative salvaging.
Roleplay, fun, risk of exploding rock
Yeah ship mining has always sucked. ROC mining is more fun but yes from a pure min/max aUEC per hour standpoint salvage has always been better. Even during the era of "make millions in an hour mining quant" youtube guides, they always disingenuously handwaved away the fact you have to wait LITERALLY AN ENTIRE REAL LIFE DAY to get your product and go sell it.
Measuring things in Volume in a Space Environment makes actually a lot of scence
But the mass of the object is more important.
@@jrsydvl7218 there really isn't mass though without gravity or a pull. Like humans weigh less on the moon, and we can float a bit from jumping. Have you ever been to a NASA center they usually have a weight scale to see your weight on different planets or moons.
@@slumpdogyt You're not realizing gravity is a force. When you change direction or acceleration, you're applying a force. Mass affects the force needed.
@@slumpdogyt There is absolutely mass! Don't confuse it with weight. 😉
@@slumpdogyt what school did you attend as a child
While I agree with much of what you’re saying, the data removal points I don’t agree with.
You said you saw a video of someone saying “9 scu in pyro” and that got you excited enough to jump in game and play, but you’re saying you’d rather have just looked at some spreadsheets? Sounds like they added some actual exploration back to the game.
meh, they call a economy making static and arbitrary numbers? more like one sided barter xd
i mean there IS NO economy atm. there's no cycle of production/consumption.
@@TheWorldsprayer yeah but they call it a "economy" so there´s that
If you want to prospect in Pyro you have to bring a god damn army with you 😂
Star Citizen running Play Now ads on youtube ROFL
I wish nothing was data minable. People should have to discover everything by playing. I hate data mining with a passion.
Until the pertinent information is available in-game, reliably, datamining is all we have. Go ahead and look at weapons and components in-game and tell me what each one does. You literally can't. Try again next time.
Mining in Pyro LMAO good luck getting anything to the refinery
No data that you can get off of a website???? It’s almost like they might be getting ready for exploration and data running. Seriously what data would you be selling if a website had all the location information for this stuff? You aren’t supposed to know where it can be found. That’s the whole point of exploration and data running. Maybe that’s what they are beginning to do
Mining, salvage, and cargo hauling are all the same in this regard. Learning how to find the thing that gets you the game dollars is part of the game. The entire theme of not having experience points and magic character levels, that just make you magically better at everything, is based on the idea that you, the player, will get better at doing the things you do in game.
All of the guys I play with are happy when they overhaul these game loops because we've already mastered the previous meta. A new system is like rolling a new character that you get to level again as you figure out how the new system works.
Thanks for the Video SaltEMike. I agree with the new Insurance thing. There was a show where someone suggested Blueprints to recraft your ship along with the required materials, and it took time to make your ship. The same could be true for weapons.
These systems should be planned out and mapped for deployment not BEING MADE ON THE FLY. *insert pejoratives here*
Shouldn't Stanton also be divided by zone in proximity to the star or is it already that way.
At this point my fleet will be an expensive gift to my son when he grows up. Or maybe 60% moneyback when i sell it.
If you thought the Q&A team for CIG was bad at their job, the people working on Star Citizens economy are more incompetent than a government employee. They have no idea what they are doing and every change and update makes things worse. I dont hate often on SC, i rather enjoy the game, but man does the lack of basic common sense when it comes to game economy balance get to me. They actively make the game less enjoyable, or even unplayable, when they try to "balance" the economy
100% I like being blind. I dont want to know, I want to see people chatting sharing success and fail stories, me accidently falling over a rock and finding a score of mine-ables. this is kinda like playing world of warcraft vanilla the first few years vs 2024. once the data is crunched and the meta is found, no one plays different.
Need to consider the refining aspect. Can’t just consider volume/weight on the raw resource.
Your example of price per kg or worth your weight in gold isn’t raw gold. It’s refined material.
Not saying it’s the wrong view, just more so that you’re not comparing apples to apples in your analogy.
Great discussion though. Cheers!
11:12 pricing/measuring things by weight in space is a little difficult to do 😂
Yeah thats true lol. It should be by mass. I think that was what he meant because people are used to just saying weight interchangeably in real life because we are not exactly leaving Earth lol. Mass for a specific solid object doesn't change depending on gravity, weight is relative to gravity.
Wouldn't it be good for the data to not be in the game? Only say that because if it's in the game then there isn't much of a reason to explore to find what is out there. Everyone will just immediately know the best place to go and we miss that whole exploration part at the beginning.
Nothing but love for you man. Stay real ❤
Thank you. Not enough people understand basic statistics: you need a statistically valid sample size from which to draw any conclusions.
I don't agree with data mining games, it's like getting into an escape room and pulling out the phone and reading a guide on how to solve it, not as extreme in this case but it still takes away from figuring stuff out for yourself, on the other hand it saves time. The argument of oh just don't use it doesn't really work bc it gives unfair advantage same stuff what Mike said about not getting rid of his paid ships. Unfair advantage. So I just prefer there are no tools like this
5:33 Quantanium is (somewhat) easy to find in the current PU.
Since the change that gold is is old Quantanium price and quadrupled the Quantanium price I rarely find Quantanium.
DO you play the game? Stream it at all? Record any playtime to put in your video?
Reacting is boring.
Holy shit this is insane to say…
Thanks for the heads up on the mining changes.
Not sure why people can't just do their own analysis. Expecting everything to be rolled out on a red carpet is absurd. The hints seem obvious enough
Year 13 of development, and CIG still have not understood that we need both volume AND weight for cargo.
Not really sure what the problem is to be honest. It's a new resource distribution system, of course there's no data on it yet. Surely part of the fun is finding out for yourself?.
It really doesnt matter if you calculate in weight or volume, only important thing is how much is it worth, and how much i can carry. By the way gasoline in Gallon is also a volume messure
This was expected. The intention was always that surveyors would be needed to find the resources miners wanted.
I just want The Arrastra released
I mined with an org for years before Red Monster published his charts. His info was good, but it's not like no one knew how to mine before that. It's just something that you learn with experience. Even with the mining overhaul they did a while back, I still bring in the occasional quantanium load. I heard a rumor that Pyro has asteroid belts like Stanton, and if so, that's where I will be, making millions.
I played it for the first time in a long time. The fact that the screens don't really work other than the ASOP terminal and its all-helmet HUD, it seems less immersive.
As someone who gave up on following this game years ago, CGIs updates only make me more confused and likely to continue being checked out. Salty is the only guy I can tolerate - even if I’m not following the CGI messaging.
Just a thought, but youldnt you charge by Volume when you you're a space fairing society? Because you're then constrained by the space in ships and gravity is different on celestial bodies?
It should be mass, because mass is the amount of matter in an object, so a more dense object has more mass or is more massive.
Recent loophole? Isn't that why resale has always been abysmal? About as time efficient as selling white helmets for generating "large" amounts if aUEC.
It's more logical to function it by volume than weight, without gravity masse in not a think. So you just try to fill your ship.
If it not profitable it an other think, it's a balance between time and value. And there is a lot of way to adjust this.
I hqve never mined but if when you scan you have only weight value it could be interesting to have the possibility to switch to volume value.
You saying you've never found Quantanium makes you a completely unreliable messenger regarding anything mining.
Gold and Silver are priced in Ounces and purity. Typically a silver commodity contract is for 5,000 Troy ounces of .999 fine purity silver. This means the silver has be highly refined to 99.9% purity.
i think it is better not having in game info about locations. harder to min max when you have to explore and find out for yourself. this is a game not a IRL job. what's the rush?
While ship duping is always a issue in SC (I’ve had days where I can’t play because most areas I travel to are littered with ship dupes) I don’t think droping ship part prices like that is the way to do it.
IMO if they are actually concerned about the economy in the game they need to bring in a player market.
On the mining side I’ve only done it a few times but haven’t explored it as much. If I’m setting up a repair shop in the future with no real player economy to help me stock parts I will have to pick up the trade though
would love to prepare my mining ship, as soon as CIG fix the friggen mole.
I found stileron during EPTU but it was unsellable as ore and worth 1 aUEC per SCU refined. ice and silicon were minable, silicon wouldn't go in your bags and ice would vanish at refinement. I'm sure they updated things for 4.0 preview... >.>
Crafting / Market and arguably base ownership all go hand in hand similar to the Fire triangle take one away and it stops.
Perhaps all this information will be provided when we get the academy career thing. Like it will actually teach you how to mine
It doesn't matter whether you price resource in weight or volume for a game, lol - both *are* quantity. We measure minerals in weight because popping something on the scales gives you immediate value.
I've found Shale deposits and Atacitite or something like that, on Vatra and Adir (Pyro V)
It's the same old stuff: pick up rock, sell rock, rinse, repeat. Buy a ship/weapon and PVP. Pyro is just a prettier Stanton with fewer rules.
what are you talking , they can price ice at 100uec/scu , riccite at 10000000uec/scu , the unit is not important here , also fewer scu means you move those boxes faster
Decreasing the sale price of weapons seems extremely ham-fisted and I hope they find a better solution fairly soon but I get it.
I was in one area (not far from Bloom) and everything I found was a gold rock. Every rock had gold, it was weird.
I dont think they have the talent to create a “no man sky” type exploration/gameplay with current mmo/economy/mechanics…I honestly don’t think they have the talent for it.. they keep shoveling shit against the wall and seeing what sticks
Wait, that's how mining works? So if you get a heavy rock, with a low density base material, you'll get more volume, but the cost of the rare stuff in it determines the value? That seems.... Wrong...
Also hope you are doing good Mike
Now make exploration ships be able to scan patches that are fare way collect data and sell that data on the market
"used" or "preowned" ship components should sell for less than new though... this is done in literally every video game ever and also in real life, vendoring an item is never a money making idea.
9 scu per large panel is def better than 3.24 Stanton. Sounds like he didn't bother testing Stanton in 4.0 is the issue.
I never thought it before. But more and more I worry the community is not ready to be part of open development.
I think they could do it on something very small scale and easy to do. Anything that has to pioneer new tech is just on a scale most people can't deal with. It's like the soviets in the space race. Korolev was thrown in the gulags over and over because he didn't make what the party bureaucrats thought was sufficient progress.
Riccite sells for 11-12k, the other sells for 17k. How is Riccite so rare yet sells for little as much as RMC? What the hell cig, make it make sense.
Oh, I forgot to mention there's only one sell location for each of the "rare" commodities. So, good luck to sell.
@@Outsider5wrYou'd think if it was rare that shops would be champing at the bit to get their hands on it, barring some special reason
"You can't do it but I can.." seems a little odd to say.
You’re paid on weight per scu and density is an element of weight and vice versa.
1 scu of ice is super light.
1 scu of Iron is heavy
1 scu of gold is heavy
Ice is not valuable, and it’s not dense, so you need a lot of scu to make it valuable
Gold, being dense, packs more weight into less space, and the use of gold ads value.
Iron being dense packs a similar weight, but is common and lacks value, therefore you need to sell more SCU of iron to equal 1 scu value of gold.
With iron and gold in 1 rock, the volume of the rock might be small but the destiny is large, giving you a more 50 to split in density but a lesser value in the gold to iron ratio.
If the rock is ice and gold, and the proportion of volume is equal, you will have more gold value than ice. To have equal value of gold to ice, there would need to me much more ice volume to match the more dense gold. This larger rock, being harder to break, not because of its density but because of its volume is absurd.
The density and heat sensitivity of the materials would make it harder or easier to break. The ice should break off the gold easier, and therefore the gold should clump together more.
They need to switch to 1 substance per rock ASAP.
Volume is density, so long as you consider only gold. Or only ice. Or only iron.
Comparing ice to gold obviously density is t volume.
But value per scu… is value per density. Because gold doesn’t change density from one SCU to another.
Until we get purity, gold is gold. And value is density. When bad gold is less valuable per scu than good gold, we are splitting density per scu into subcategories.
Oh you want data? Try exploring.
Gold is by purity
For gems carat is the weight, for gold carat is purity, 24 carat gold means the gold is 99.99999% pure or whatever
Gold is sold by weight. Purity affects the price per ounce, but it always sold by weight.
I dont get it the Ice mining.
thoese 29 Centure people forgot they once have thing called "Freezer"
Lol
So where you gonna get water on planets that have none?
@@mrsasquatch4828 ever heard microtech?
@@ShaoruneXYZ so ice mining ?
@@mrsasquatch4828 so. you never see water in microtech?
no fking way am i taking a prospector to pyro and get clubbed by a sociopath. the amount of random, mindless violence in pyro is going to be inbred mutant cannibal levels, and thats not what i bought into the game for.
Economy in SC? 😂
Eve player stressing over not having a API integrated spreadsheet to tell him how to play. Jk jk…kinda…
thanks for keeping us updated!
Huge mining nerf 😢
Dude go mine for a week and learn what's best through exercise rather than data mining like a real prospector would
Once again CIG punishes everybody for a few people exploiting game mechanics. They are also forcing all industry into group PVP play when there are no features to search for fleets or orgs in game. The further this game comes along in development, the further it seems to be moving away from what was promised all those years ago. You struggle in this game if you don't sink £££'s into it and play with a group of other people. It's turning into a gold plated turd, looks all shiny and good but underneath it's crap....can't even save loadouts or make bookmarks ffs
More mining ships
sigh, dang man
That was all about mining very little to wirh the economy at all. Why would panels have less scu value in Stanton vs. Pyro, that's crap. Trying to force pvp again
They don’t they are the same you misunderstood. I was arguing they should be more valuable in Stanton.
One things for sure, nobody will be buying any equip from componant stores because theyre all stock crap. Irritating i have to buy military A tear stuff from a criminal looter in a failing star system now. Fun gameplay....not
Honestly, this just hurts mining. As someone who mainly mines, this just sucks tbh.
lol… devious…
Nice try luring PvE players into Pyro to become content. At least they didn't take minables from Stanton to make them exclusive to Pyro and locked behind contested zones).
Personally for me there isn't much interesting stuff in Pyro. Other then contested zones and a few pretty locations there is nothing new. It's just a reskin of Stanton.
That is a bullshit answer as any ship parts or weapons sale prices have always been lower than what they could be purchased for so umm yeah again bullshit.
Keep it up Mike! love the content.
Meh, this just seems desperate from CIG