Hamburger of a sort have existed long before his time. Fast food restaurants serving their version of hamburgers and related sandwiches were just as widespread in Rome and the empire as baths, bakeries, wineries... Several thousands of years ago there were Sumerian restaurants/taverns with shades, complex kitchens, including food made of grilled fish, mammalian, and bird steaks, most likely meatball like stuff, served with flatbreads, vegetables, fruits and beer& wine. There is archaeological evidence of it with several evidences for types of food they served. They were mostly served kebab or gyros plates, but probably they also put them inside flatbread to make something similar to döner/ dürüm / schwarma or flat subway I propose that it was also a necessity for travelers packing yummy food for their journey in textile or leather. And it wasn't nearly the first, only the earliest that was found recently.
I've been a vegetarian since I was born. I never tasted any meat. Both my father and Mother have been vegetarian for more than 50 years. We are teachers of ancient philosophy, and i get great inspiration on the ideas of pythagoras, proclus, apolonius, plotinus and also the essenes and others. It makes sense to me to keep vegetarian, and i feel sad for those who tell me.one cannot live without meat, specially now that my country (brazil) is burning with criminal fires caused by the meat industry to create pasture for cattle while the world burns in heat and drought. Great video, thanks
Picanha is dope tho Jokes aside, it's great to see someone west of Islamabad who has been vegetarian for all their life. My vegetarian girlfriend barely ate any meat as a child and gave it up after the age of 21 or so and frankly I wish I could do that, but I grew up with a mother who always worked in the meat industry so that's a bit difficult on me 😅
The first thing you master is yourself. And the first thing you overcome in yourself is your taste, speech and senses.... this is the same for thinkers everywhere!
You think its ethical killing 1000s of animals for your plant food? Vegans have no clue how their food is grown, yet they dare sit and tell is what is moral and what isnt 😂
I have been plant-based since 1981-82. That is now more than forty years. I am 60 and incredibly healthy. No medications, all my internal organs and I look and feel younger than my years. I am so glad I found this way of living.
All of your work on neo platonism has helped me understand my own religious background, and formulate my philosophical aspiration all the better! Thank you for the quality you provide with such consistency!
I really enjoy this vid, thank you. I've always been plant based, as a child I was very skinny because I just couldn't eat flesh, it made me sick. It was mostly mental, I knew it was dead flesh and being a sensitive person, I felt it deeply. My family wasn't vegetarian so I survived on the side carrots and potatoes. I had to leave my home as a teen and then buy my own food, discover other ethnic foods, beans, chickpeas... I gained weight and really felt amazing. Fully plant based since 2002. This works for body and mental health.
Oh you are like me. Never wanted to eat the meat that my mother put on my plate I knew what it was. She used to beat the hell out of me - it was a horrible time and I left when I was 17 - I'm now 70 still here - a little vegan old lady
@@ChickpeatheTortieI wish a group of you elder vegan ladies would start a podcast or a UA-cam channel about your life and experiences and such ❤ Meat eaters won't stop telling us young vegans we'll become sick and weak by our 40s and die in our 50s and things like that 😑🤦🏻 It'd be great to have a place to redirect them and show them that's not the case. Anyways, thanks for everything you did before us, it led us to the (hopefully) revolution we're living now ❤ thanks so so much
@@cassandro9445 Hello - thank you so much for your lovely comment and yes you are right. I'm very 'camera shy' but I will get in touch with 'Animal Aid' and 'Hench Herbivore' and suggest that. I know what you are saying I used to hear it myself all the time. I've lost track of the number of non-vegans that I have outlived and best of all I'm still the same size as I was at 18 which I'm so happy about - Love Liz and 7 cats xox
Just finished the video. I've watched your videos for a few years now. Grew up Babtist but converted to Zen years ago. Also vegan for 6 years and vegetarian for many years before that. Doing a workshop soon on animal rights and Buddhism for my Sangha. Been reading a lot of Buddhist sources on this topic so this video came at a great time for me to compare with "western" perspectives in antiquity. Wishing everyone well. May all beings be healthy, happy, and free from suffering.
You’re probably familiar with Tara Brach. I really liked her take on this prayer: She said, “May all beings everywhere awaken this heart of compassion. May we all dedicate ourselves to taking care of the life within and around us. May there be peace on earth, peace everywhere.” In my teens and twenties, I was a vegan and drawn to Zen. I think that’s where my interest in this kind of wisdom first began. The authors connected to the spirit rock lineage are so interesting to read! Happy new year to you 🎉
@@Donkeylover192I’ve been Vegan over 10 years. I went off all meats, chicken, fish, eggs and all dairy including cheese. Two things of note, that the calories are more dilute so you will need to be eating more food. I also do not eat oil or fat except for a seasoning such as a few chopped walnuts on my salad. I had been in a wheelchair with gouty arthritis, my hands were very sore too. I started out with lower fiber foods such as oatmeal and rice as one’s digestion will be less shocked by eating as I do now. Even if it takes substituting a vegan meal for one of your regular meals, like one week, you do all breakfast, next week, all lunches and third week all dinners, you will get there but your intestines have more time to adjust. So inside of three woods I was out of my wheelchair and feeling much better, more alert, sleeping better. I am now 71 years old, at 60 I was going through a lot of hot flashes, these became less intense, by three weeks on the diet, I was breaking out in sweat half as much and by a month, 1/4 of what it was. Inside of 3 months, very few menopause symptoms remained. Now you will have to pay attention to slowly increasing fiber as the standard American diet is rather low in fiber. You can expect that you will have more BMs as not only daily, but several times a day. This is normal. You will also note that the BM’s have very little odor and you may have more farts, but generally they are not loud and are odor free. Body odor goes away, but I still shower and bathe, but I don’t have odor anywhere, including my feet. I would suggest you walk as exercise and increase from what feels comfortable to doing the 10,000 Steps which is very healthy. Begin with 5 minutes and increase to 1 hour per day. If weight loss is a goal, I will tell you I lost 80 lbs., all without having to feel I was starving myself. There are Vegan foods, many are high in fat and are not good for you. Womemn need less daily fat than men do. For me 10 grams of fat or less and I lose weight, 15 , I maintain my weight. 20 grams, I will gain weight. I follow”The Starch Solution”, a book by Dr. John McDougall, MD. There are other diets, this seemed easiest to follow for me. He has many lectures on UA-cam. Good luck
Porphyry's works are the only reason why I was willing to click on this video but I don't think many people will have heard that name before so kudos to you for a great video on the topic and exposing the ideas to potentially more people. 🎉
@@iustinianoantalazar5021 Keep in mind I never said he was a better philosopher than Plotinus, I just think his writing style is clearer and more enjoyable to read. Granted, I have only read translations, so part of that could just be the translation style, too. As for favorite writings, that's difficult! There is something about the personal nature of his Letter to his wife (Marcella) that I really like. I also love his interpretation of Homer in On the Cave of the Nymphs. And "Launching-points to the realm of mind" is a nice summary of Neoplatonist philosophy, even though it basically only rehashes the arguments from the Enneads in simpler form.
Porphyry was quoted as once saying, "While the Gods have proclaimed Christ to have been most pious, the Christians are a confused and vicious sect," making him probably one of the earliest people to say "I don't have a problem with Jesus, it's his fan club I can't stand"
@@dbaue7343 Of course, they were amateur hand fan making enthusiasts in clubs. JK OFC, read again what OP wrote. On topic I find basically everyone agreeing that Jesus Christ was right or at least admirable, from Porphyry through all gnostic and other Christians, Hinduist and Buddhist tradition to Islam and beyond. His teaching were twisted used for exactly the opposite things that he was teaching and how he lived his life. (I also like how some Indian philosophers or even legendary 'gods' ended up being Christian and Muslim saints and angels. I was fascinated by this when I discovered it as a child.
@@LetsTalkReligion Maybe the next video in the series could be about the continuing religions and cultures which emphasizes and sometimes mandates vegetarianism. I am talking about Vaishnavism sect in Hinduism, Jainism along with all others Indic cultures who discard the panchamakar mode of worship (Mind you, Shaktism mandates animal sacrifice to the goddess). Maybe you can go into details about how Vaishnavism and Shaivism came to prefer vegetarianism when both are rooted in the highly sacrifice oritented Vedic culture which had animal sacrifices as a mode of worship for almost all gods including (Vishnu and Rudra which are the vedic names for the current Vishnu and Shiva). You can also go into the role the Jain Tirthankaras as well as Buddha played in voicing against animal sacrifice as well as the view of Buddhists in this matter as well as the views of Shankaracharya and other shaiva gurus on this topic. (I think you have already discussed Ramanujacharya, Madhava and other Vaishnavate saints) You can go into the highly non-vegetarian diets of the Shakta Hindus (who are the dominant demographic in East India as well as over 80% of Nepal) and the animal sacrifice rituals in Newari Hinduism and festivals like Dashain (Dushera) which sees thousands of animal sacrifice. To all historically challenged Indians who might comment that "Jainism and Buddhism are a part of Hinduism/Sanatan Dharma" - please stfu.
As the video proves these ideas aren't modern but ancient and ultimately are a form of asceticism, a way of depriving oneself of the natural world. Modernity is materialist and is no longer concerned with animist ideas like the souls of animals. Now I'm all for reduction of suffering including animal suffering, but that doesn't mean we can't kill them without suffering and consume them. It means instead that we should keep animals bred for consumption from suffering as much as we can while they're alive. What will ultimately force us to accept a more vegetarian diet isn't our ethics but the economics of meat feeding our exploding population numbers.
Coincidentally, I was just planning on reading Plutarch's essay on animal eating. Vegetarianism in Antiquity is sadly an underdiscussed topic, whicu leaves the impression, not unlike reincarnation does, that it is a modern caprice adopted in the West due to some sort of Oriental fetishism. Love your content.
Vegetarianism has been around since antiquity and always was involved in many temple protocols of various regions including Judeo-Christianity but has been downplayed with protestant sects. There has been a dual between human-animal sacrifice barbeque cults vs bread & wine vegetarian sects.
@@asherasatorBut the old testament has way too many laws and instructions about animal sacrifices so kind of makes no sense to think that Judaism or early Christianity encouraged people to be vegetarians
@@gilgamesh7652 The Torah sacrifices were a Pharisee/Sadducee compendium brought into Jerusalem after the Maccabee revolt that removed the Melkizedek vegetarian non-animal sacrifice priesthood and king, then installed the Hasmoneans who brought in the Pharisees from the outskirts of Babylon. The original Jerusalem Talmud has no Kodashim animal sacrifices. The Essene/Nazarenes were vegetarian and animal rights advocates from the original Melkizedek priesthood. The Abraham story is basically showing Abraham converted from the human-animal sacrifice sect to the bread and wine eucharist sect. That's why some later OT books and psalms contradict Torah blood cult barbeque ways. The narratives of Christianity were to reinstall the Melkizedek priesthood ways. Jesus is called "A priest forever in the line of Melkizedek". Rabbinical Judaism that evolved from the Pharisees with the holidays and traditions are not older than 200 BC, and is a false religion in the context of the Melkizedek sects and original ways of Jerusalem and Moses. Early Christianity did not accept many books from the old testament because of these facts and were later canonized together within the Roman empire to stop squabbling among the sects and try to please all, because each one represented different political and religious ideas. Rabbinical Judaism hijacked Christianity first through Protestantism and later infiltrated the RCC. From the earliest times Christianity and many eastern desert fathers and important figures promoted Vegetarianism.
@@gilgamesh7652there are periods of fasting where its adherents abstain from meat eating and even dairy products all together. During lent, the eastern Orthodox and even the Ethiopian Orthodox will traditionally abstain from meat and dairy products all together. Even outside of the lenten season, there are still periods of strict fasting from meat and dairy. The Roman Catholics used to have this tradition as well, but in the modern era, the abstention from meat, with the exception of fish, is observed on Fridays during lent. As for Judaism, especially in its mystical form, it’s thought that vegetarianism is the ideal due to beliefs surrounding the lack of meat consumption in paradise and such.
@@chrisjackson8151 I am living in an Eastern Orthodox Christianty, and I come to the conclusion that the reason this "fasting" on meat, eggs, dairy and oils and of course wine and alcohol, was because of the fact that these things in the first centuries were expensive and we didn't had the equivalent of today's food industry, in the old testament an actual fasting was no food and no water at all, and in the new testament both Jesus and Saint Paul/Pavel said that food doesn't make someone more or less holy or good nor does make someone more or less bad or evil
"My body will not be a tomb for other creatures. I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo da Vinci
As a former vegetarian, I'd like to mention that a significant difference is the industrial dairy industry (which forms part of the meat/sl*ughter industry) didn't exist back then. Now, male calves are unalived, female dairy cows often find themselves ending up as low grade burger meat, after being constantly impregnated and having their babies taken away til they're "spent". There is no moral justification for the dairy industry. The dairy industry IS the meat industry.
😂 take a look at stable isotope testing done on human remains friend. We are meat eaters and thats how our biology prefers to operate. Plants slowly kill us
Awesome topic. I’d be really interested to hear about other ethical debates and philosophies in the ancient world. A few topics that come to mind are slavery, poverty/charity to the poor, and childbirth vs chastity
@ once I realized how easy it was to survive without meat, I had to question why we do it? I felt like I escaped a negative karma loop. My love of animals and diet suddenly aligned. Life became more about cooperation instead of competition.
Same! I also understood that meat is addictive and most people are addicted. When you stop consuming flesh you have to go through withdrawals first, but after a while you start feeling amazing and very happy for no reason
Wrong, that is a very materialist perspective. True Kundalini Rises with Heart Center awakening and activation. I had a kundalini awakening and I ate meat before and still do. Fasting from sugars and processed foods is what actually calms the nerves.
@@Imcarolinek Horrible. That is why I only buy animal products from ethical farms where animals have a good life, great health and clean death when it is their time. Thankfully I have several i've visited locally and they are nothing like that documentary.
I did vipassana 10 day meditation course, total silence for 10 days , after 10 days I came back home .. and after 2 days mom cooked chicken/mutton … I was not eating , I dint even knew I would ever leave meat…. my habits changed , I sleep on time, eat nutritious food(no meat or egg) , my stomach and bowel and shifting habits improved enormously and my mental calmness and clarity increased so much 🙏🙏🙏🙇🙇🙇
Another veggie here, thank you for exploring this perennial topic of the sanctity of all sentient beings. The detailed argument for the inclusion of animal life into our, and Gods care, from so long ago, was inspiring.
Perenialism is a pseudoscientific hypothesis with deep fascist roots and a cultish following. There were vegetarians and meat eaters/sacrificers for as long as religions existed, and both have had rational arguments in favor of their positions
@dontnoable that's their telos. They were born, as their parents before the for probably thousands of generations, for that exact purpose. Just as hammers were made of wood and iron to smash nails, cows were made from wild bovines to be self growing burger meat creatures. Its ok to not want to use hammers. Just don't pretend you are doing of your love for them
@dontnoable that's their telos. They were born, as their parents before them for probably thousands of generations, for that exact purpose. Just as hammers were made of wood and iron to hit nails, cows were made from wild bovines to be self growing burger meat creatures. It's ok not to want to use hammers. Just don't pretend you are doing that of your love for them
It always blows my mind how influencial many of these Greek philosophers/philosophies were in estanlishing later religious traditions like gnosticism & Christianity. And how many of their moral concerns still resonate today even if people are unaware of the earlier ancient origins regarding both animal rights & human rights. (anti slavery, anti war, anti greed, pro vegetarian, etc)
I watched this entire video and I have to say it was really well-done and even though I had heard of Porphyry, I never knew about his views on animals and the consumption of them. Thank you very much for making this video! I'm a vegetarian myself, and while I've heard quite a bit about it's history in the east, this is the first time I'm hearing much about it's history in western antiquity :)
The more I learn about Hellenic Philosophy, the more I get amazed by how similar it is to Indic philosophy. And I am convinced that there must have been an ancient connection between the two which influenced one another. Fascinating.
As a relevant anecdote according to Marinus, Proclus was a conscious vegetarian for a great length of time but interestingly enough was talked out of it by his mentors Syrianus and Plutarch of Athens.
Thank you for this excellent content. As a vegetarian myself since I was a teenager I was always interested in vegetarianism in different cultures. In the monasteries of Greece many of the monks only rarely eat meat, mostly and only occasionally fish. Vegetarianism is respected. I recently read an article where research had been done on the remains of gladiators. It turns out that they were labeled as the vegetable eaters and it seems that they were vegetarian. this idea that if you are going to do hard physical work, you have to eat. Meat is not really true either. Many extreme athletes today are becoming vegans and vegetarians. i’ve seen hard laborers in India that are vegetarian, and the Predominantly Sikh population of the Punjab are very robust and vegetarian.
I have a view on eating meat and being vegetarian. Some argue that animal life is lost and that they have "rights" Some say, it's due to animals being used as sacrifice. I see no light in either! As both animals, fruits and vegetables do have lives of their own and are all used in sacrifices!!! I feel living in balance, moderation, and gratitude in our approach and choices of either lifestyle is essential... it's freeing!!!
The thumbnail preview is awesome and, we can corroborate that after taking control of our diet to disinclude dead flesh, this has made all the difference in our health, as we had a position control ingestion that we are having to recover from and a fresh diet helps so much 🙏
@@DANtheMANofSIPA yes they are well disciplined, I think all of us should have some degree of discipline in life, no self control is bad. Like even if you can limit your diet by eating one type of meat, or fast for some days in a dedicated period could do good
700 years separate Pythagoras and Porphyry and neither’s vegetarianism took hold. Plato’s vegetarianism was based on political pragmatism not on metaphysical or philosophical ideals. Plotinus had a lot of views that most contemporaries as well as modern vegans would disagree with including anti-astrology and anti-sex.
It's taking a long time for many violent things to become less tolerated, illegal, etc. for many obvious reasons it's going to take time for things to be most efficient and demonstrated most beneficial and eventually all of these truths will be inescapable.
My brain needed some sustenance instead of work out music and this was in my recommendations! I really appreciate how you deliver information, wow Thankyou! Oh wow you also cover music! And, make music! Ok, here for it👍
For clarification can you explain the philosophical meaning and implications of the word intellect... Perhaps a whole video on this topic could bring a log of light and depth to these discussions
Thank you for introducing me to Porphyry. I really resonated with his theory about daimones. Definitely something new and interesting to look into if I don’t forget his name.
Maybe the next video in the series could be about the continuing religions and cultures which emphasizes and sometimes mandates vegetarianism. I am talking about Vaishnavism sect in Hinduism, Jainism along with all others Indic cultures who discard the panchamakar mode of worship (Mind you, Shaktism mandates animal sacrifice to the goddess). Maybe you can go into details about how Vaishnavism and Shaivism came to prefer vegetarianism when both are rooted in the highly sacrifice oritented Vedic culture which had animal sacrifices as a mode of worship for almost all gods including (Vishnu and Rudra which are the vedic names for the current Vishnu and Shiva). You can also go into the role the Jain Tirthankaras as well as Buddha played in voicing against animal sacrifice as well as the view of Buddhists in this matter as well as the views of Shankaracharya and other shaiva gurus on this topic. (I think you have already discussed Ramanujacharya, Madhava and other Vaishnavate saints) You can go into the highly non-vegetarian diets of the Shakta Hindus (who are the dominant demographic in East India as well as over 80% of Nepal) and the animal sacrifice rituals in Newari Hinduism and festivals like Dashain (Dushera) which sees thousands of animal sacrifice. To all historically challenged Indians who might comment that "Jainism and Buddhism are a part of Hinduism/Sanatan Dharma" - please stfu.
Chatterjee bro, you say "Shaktism mandates animal sacrifice to the goddess". This isn't necessarily true. Because I know a super powerful Devi temple with absolutely zero animal sacrifice. So it depends on the kind of consecration and maintanence rituals that happen there. Maybe you've come across only that kind of Shaktism which mandates animal sacrifice.
@@Aanandlahar If you are talking about Vaishno devi, then the answer is in the name "Vaishno". There are other temples which have banned animal sacrifice due to state legislative mandate (and replaced with sacrificing vegetables). Dakshineshwar temple in Kolkata is a prime example of that. There are states where animal sacrifice is banned as a whole. I won't count these as exceptions to what I said as they merely have replaced the tradition with an emulation of cutting a gourd or pumpkin due to government orders. Otherwise, almost all devi temples has the panchamakar, tantric mode of worship. But you are right, some devi temples worship using the sattvik, dakshinachari means but they are mere exceptions to the general rule of tantric worship. The thing is that all of the Devi Bhagavatam, Kalika Puran etc readily describe the devi as "Chagbalipriya Homaagnipriyam" . So, if you are abiding their scriptures, then sacrifice becomes necessary. Otherwise, like I said, you merely need see the case of Nepal to witness how many thousands of buffaloes are killed (sometimes they are even imported from China due to shortage) during Dashain (their Durga Puja). Newaris even sacrifice to Ganesh (see Suriya Vinayak temple) and the Bhairava form of Shiva(in Pashupatinath, Bhairavsthan and Bagh Bhairav and many others). Even Newari Buddhists sacrifice animals during Rato Macchindranath (Bungadya Jatra). Again, this is a mere exception to what I said regarding Shaivism and Smartism. They don't mandate such things but some temples do follow due to local/tribal customs. Heck, even the Pavan Narasimha temple in Ahobilam which is a Vaishnavate pilgrimage site (and one of the most important one) witnesses animal sacrifice each day outside the temple as the Chenchu tribe worships there using their tribal rituals. The Vaishnavs have tried and failed to stop this tradition and impose strict Ramanujacharyas pancharatra mode of worship, due to protection of tribal welfare mandated by the government. I guess you have figured out by now that I am someone who perhaps has more knowledge about this particular topic than I want to possess. Even though I am a researcher in Mathematics (Probability Theory and Stochastic Processes), I have studied East Asian cultures for a long time now. I have just stated examples from India and Nepal. I can go into several hundreds of examples from Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Thailand and all of Indochina in general and as far east as Sulawesi in Indonesia and their burial rituals wherever Indic culture once flourished.
@@arghyadeepchatterjee6100 I was talking about Linga Bhairavi in South India. It's amazing to see your interest in religious cultures though! I've never eaten any non-veg food and can't imagine personally sacrificing animals. But I'll try to share whatever little understanding I have, of this path. Like you've done, I'll try to substantiate my points with examples. In Indic spiritual systems, a variety of practices can lead to the dissolution of ego and heightened awareness. They're all considered as valid spiritual paths. They might look very crude, and some of them are crude. But as long as they make people drop ego or *_Aham Bhaav_* and increase awareness, they're still considered spiritual. By beholding Devi as much higher that oneself, we drop _Aham Bhaav._ And not all human beings have very refined minds/hearts anyway, for all of them to follow Dakshin-marg. *For example* - Tantric panchamakar is not very gross compared to Aghora practices. But even Aghora can be considered valid spirituality, as long as it increases awareness and not ego, and the Aghori doesn't hurt others. I'll give you some examples as to how dropping _Aham_ is the real deal - *#1.* It's recorded in Ramakrishna Vachanamrit by Sri Master Mahashaya that someone asked Sri Ramakrishna whether it's necessary to stop eating non-vegetarian food for spiritual growth. He said - "It is not. We just need to give up desires and greed/attachment." *#2.* When Aadi Shankara reached Dakshin-Kali temple, he wanted to stopped animal sacrifice. Suddenly his body felt weak and he couldn't walk. That's when the Devi appeared to him as a wonderful little girl and said - "It's ok, let them worship me in whichever way they can understand" *#3.* I've heard that these powerful Devis Rakini, Dakini, Lakini and more have been created by Maha-Yogis, for people who walk Shaakt paths. *###3.1* This 'creation of beings' might sound new to some people. So here's an example - it's very well-known that some Great Yogis have had a project called "Maitreya Buddha" since very long. They created a magnificient being like that. And the Theosophical society actually wanted to merge Maitreya into a suitable human medium. But they found J. Krishnamurti who anyway shone like a bright sun, all by himself. *###3.2* This 'merging of beings' might also sound new to someone. So here's an example - It's been recorded that Lord Kartik was created by merging 6 beings. That's why he's called Shan-Mukha or 6-faced. If one is interested in touching spiritual depths oneself, it doesn't serve much purpose comparing two different sadhana marg. I'll give an example for this too - During Ramakrishna's time, Kalicharan used to be immersed in idol worship. Vivekanand saw this and asked him to stop. One day, Viveka attained Samadhi and first thing he did was to forcefully influence Kalicharan's mind. He communicated a thought asking him to throw away his idols. Ramakrishna saw this and told Vivekanand - "Due to me you attained this state, and now I'm taking it back, as you've misused it. You'll get it back only on your last day on Earth."
@@Aanandlahar I applaud you for writing such a detailed comment. Well, I was talking strictly of what scriptures say and what the tantric temples like Tarapith, Kamakhya, Kalighat etc practice or even less famous ones which are shakti peeths like Kankalitala, Hatimura temple (which practiced human sacrifice till the last century), Chamundeshwari (where human sacrifice till Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan put a ban on it in the 18th century). The points made by Ramkrishna Paramhamsa and Vivekananda are all valid points and I won't disagree with them but my comment was on the practices and what the scriptures and pranalis specify. And I don't mean any disrespect towards RKM but still, it is a modern movement and being a Mathematics scholar myself, I have to go by empirical evidence. How many tantric temples actually follow or even give heed to what Ramkrishna and Vivekanda said? The answer is most probably 0 or maybe atmost 1 or two. So, again I state, exceptions don't prove a rule. Let's take your example of Linga Bhairavi. Sadhguru himself tells in one of his videos that the Isha foundation does not do animal sacrifice and "spill blood everywhere and we don't do the blood business here" even though most other devi temples do. So there in it lies the point I was making. Some temples don't do this by going against the scriptures like Kalika Purana. That is entirely their choice and I laud their effort and I absolutely detest animal sacrifice be it from Hinduism or Islam or any religion. But again I state, these are mere exceptions. The only examples of such temples are either the modern day ones like Dakshineshwar or Linga Bhairavi as you mentioned. They obviously don't want animal sacrifice and wants to stay clear of extremist vamachari tantric occult rituals as because they are modern day temples. And Vaishno Devi is the only older example as because the legend itself is that the worshipped deity itself is a "Vaishnavi" and hence the name "Vaishno Devi" and hence only vegetarian food and sattvic worship is allowed. Let me give you another example. The Jagannath Temple in Puri, albeit is mostly under Vaishnav control cannot stop animal sacrifice to take place inside the Vimala temple during the days of durga puja as it's a shakti peeth. As for Dakinis Hakinis, these legends are mainly the result of Shaktism and Tantricism distancing itself from Brahminism and syncretically evolving with the Buddhist Mahasiddhas from East India. If you look at Mahasiddhas like Krishnacharya, Luipada, Matsayendranath, Gorakhnath and almost all others are venerated mahasiddhas of Tantric Buddhism also. Some scholars would even argue that Tantricism has it's root in Buddhism rather than Kashmiri Shaivism as is the popular belief. Well I am also have a lot of knowledge in Buddhism so I can go into further details as well about Maitreya or Nagarjuna and discuss how Professors/Chancellors of Nalanda like Virupa were notorious for secretly practicing vamachari tantra. Not only India, but I can go into how Jayavarman VII of Cambodia converted Hindu temples and patronized Buddhism by adopting Hevajra Tantra and performed blood sacrifices which paved the way for the decline of Hinduism in the Khmer empire. Well essentially, most of the Tantric goddesses including the concept of Yoginis and Mahavidyas have their roots in tantric buddhism. But let me stop here as it has already gotten very long. If you want to discuss more then feel free to mail me. You can find me at arghyadeepc [at] iisc.ac.in
Thinking philosophically about existence itself and we relate and interact with our Universe is the reason why I have been vegan for years and vegetarian for decades.
@@colethewolfboy Most of the mono crops are fed to farm animals. Why would I meditate on this when I eat a much wider variety of crops than most people?
@@Cancellator5000antivegans hitting out with their 'gotchas' like we've never heard about them before, rather than reflect on their impact on other lives
Very informative. I really enjoyed the way you wove together a wide range of philosophical/spiritual issues into this discussion. That's not easy to do. // Over many years my appreciation for Porphyry has grown. While it is true that his writing is not as encompassing as Plotinus, nevertheless he can be inspiring for bringing ethical commitments into metaphysical speculation. I'm thinking of the way he talks about the classical virtues in this way. And his long essay on refraining from killing, eating, or sacrificing animals is one of the mos thorough that I have seen. I'm hoping that your post will encourage people to read it and engage with it. Thanks.
I was born in a vegetarian "caste" "bramhin"...from south india .after really long search today i came to know about origin of prejudice of attaching vegetarian diet to intellect .thank you very much.
weren't animal sacrifices considered necessary to roman civic religion, though? it was my understanding that abstaining from such could cause trouble with the authorities. how did they get away with it?
this is exactly like Advaita Vedanta of Ancient India, I think pythagoras was somehow connected to it as many indians visited the greek maybe he talked to them
Maybe they just developed it individually. 😅 No reason to believe that cultures can’t develop independently. And now we know they do. Native North Americans don’t have the same concept or God/Gods as the rest of the world. Africans even worshiped their ancestors for the most part before the Abrahamic religions invaded and converted them.
This is cool, I have several interviews that touch on this topic with people from various religions and ethnicities. We should make a compilation together pulling from those on this subject we can almost make an entire documentary with the content I have I bet coupled with your skills would be epic.
I'd say, based on this video, those who turn vegan are those driven by their reason and intellect, which is why I fear that animals may be doomed because most people have tunnel vision and only care about fleeting pleasures
@@user-kt8hf9tx6h we and many other species evolved to have feelings and emotions, and the capacity for empathy. Many immoral things that we find abhorrent were selected got through evolution. I don’t think it follows that we should do things just because they were involved in our evolutionary path…
Filip, I really enjoy your content. Is there any chance that some of these ideas are a co-mingling of Vedic/Buddhist philosophy with a Hellenistic flavoring? When I hear about these philosophers I can't help but think about the Bhagavad Gita and some of the teachings presented in it. Weren't the Greeks introduced to Vedic/Buddhist philosophy around 300-200 BC from Alexander the Great's conquests? I love your channel, keep up the wonderful work!!
Indo-European beliefs in metempsychosic was probably found in all daughter cultures, so an anti-blood sacrifice current probably existed from very ancient times among many people.
Not to just direct people away from your channel, but for anyone interested your colleague Dr Justin Sledge at Esoterica has an amazing video on Theurgy that honestly serves as a great sequel to this one. (In fact, I was temporarily confused when you said you should do a video on Theurgy some day, 'cause I honestly misremembered and thought his video was one of yours!)
You've got an icon behind you. :O I watched a lot of your videos when I was a pagan and looking into different world religions. I had been studying Krishna and landed on one of your videos which eventually led me to the video you did on Hesychasm, which in turn led me to look more into the the Orthodox church. I haven't watched you in a few years, but it's cool that the first video I see now you have an icon on your shelf. While I'm not an Orthodox Christian... i am a rare breed of protestant that upholds many Orthodox practices, interpretation and canon.
When an animal was sacrificed, the animal sacrificed was often eaten. The Phoenician people were known to offer children as sacrifice, as did Abraham his son Isaac. Was cannibalism a part of these sacrifices?
That school he attended in Egypt was the Egyptian mystery schools, he returned to his home land in Samos and created his own mystery school, The mystery schools was founded by Thoth Hermes.
What an awesome compilation and flawless presentation, thanks! You could have added Pythagoras enlightening experience in India and his changed outlook about natural powers as God which led to his astonishing work.
Regardless of any other health or preference consideration. Basically all living creatures need to eat other living creatures. The only exceptions are water and salt. So, the difference between vegetarian, vegan and carnivore can be resumed as where you put the level of consciousness of the living creature you eat. Because you are always eating something that was alive.
It is a question of degrees. It is less damaging for a person to pick an apple and eat it, (even though there is life in the pips) than it is to hack into a living creature and bring about its demise so its flesh can be devoured. A lion doesn't have the mental capacity to make this distinction and its body is adapted to eat meat (but who are we to say the lion is not evolving?). Our bodies can and do live successfully without meat, so the decision belongs with the individual as to whether they wish to behave like a flesh-eating animal, or if they want to elevate themselves to a higher level of understanding in the grand scheme of things.
I have bio vege garden and aple shery tree so when you kill pork or chicken is same like i kill johns or Mery this two no exsist they are death but when I pick up aple from tree tree is there and nekst sesone i pick up aple from tree and agein tree is there so is big difrent
This really spoke to me, thank you for sharing. Ever since I became an adult, after struggling with religion in my teens, I kinda came to the conclusion that God doesn't need us to do worship in their name, and that worship is a way for us to seek connection and ground ourselves. The whole argument on worshipping the One through silence makes me feel vindicated haha. Bless you.
I see sometimes you do whole videos about specific major characters in certain religions, you have entire videos dedicated to Sufi saints both modern and medieval. There are many many saints both ancient and modern especially in Indic religions, the most significant to me personally is Sri Ramakrishna, his teaching that all paths can lead to the same ultimate truth made me a perennialist.
He talked about this in many videos. I mean his personal life choices. He has interests in religions mainly Sufism which is why his master's major was in Sufism. This explains why most of his work is related to Islamic Sufism. Especially his early work. He is Swedish which explains European Christian and non-Christian figures. He also made videos that were associated with Chinese, Indians, and others. Filip is a great academic; part of his success is due to his passion and dedication plus his cool and calm narrating style, and personality. He also has a different channel for music.
In the yogic tradition the people say that vegetarianism raises your perception because the body becomes lighter and less of a burden, mostly because meat is harder to digest. By raising your perception it becomes easier to get to enlightenment.
@@erickgreen2361by that I mean the time for the food to move from the stomach to the intestine. Once the food is there the digestive process consumes much less energy. Therefore the quicker the food moves from stomach to intestine, the more energy you have free to use for your perception of the world. At least in my experience.
@@danielz.592 Quickly moving to the intestine doesn't mean it's being digested easily, the healthy body quickly gets rid of things it can't digest hence why people who eat more plant food go the bathroom more often with the exception of leaves and high water concentrated foods. Any energy you're feeling from plants is coming from the minerals...
I think its important for people to see actual slaughterhouse and facotory farm footage before enganging in philosophical debate. Otherwise "meat" becomes a sort of an abstract concept.
I myself am not a vegetarian, but as a spiritual seeker I am starting to wonder if I am missing something by not going plant based. I also am dealing with health issues though, and feel meats nutritional impact helps me. But the energy of the meat as a dead animal is certainly felt as well.
Are you sure that you are getting enough 'salt' - we live in this mad world of salt is bad bad bad but I have found the opposite. Also make sure that you take a couple of good quality vitamin pills every day and lots of VitC
You just need to learn how to simply prepare and acclimate to consuming legumes, greens, greens, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices and a proper variety of each and ditch all the meat, eggs and dairy. You are having problems that people eating a well-planned vegan diet are not having.
The interesting fact is that the Porphyry's take about animal rationality was actually forgotten for a long time. The abstinence from eating animals was all ascesis-driven for century, and it came back into "rational" philosophy only with Jeremy Bentham at the beginning of 19th century. Bentham's argument, though, didn't involved animal intellect at all, but only their ability to suffer, an argument which lead the discussion about animal rights for at least 150 years, and resulted in a lot of weakness (should we eat a human incapable of feeling pain? Isn't that true and evident that plants also suffer? And anyway is animal suffering really suffering, or theirs is just a mechanical reaction as Descartes told us? etc.) We had to wait Peter Singer to bring back the argument of animal rationality/mind/self/whatever-you-want-to-call-it back in the discussion. And people are still telling me that plants suffer too...
@@LetsTalkReligion Surely, but the problem is exactly that suffering is in the category of rational, but rational is not in the category of suffering (suffering as a mechanical response as in Descartes, plants cleraly suffering i.e. when they don't have enough water etc.). Focusing on suffering for decades deprived the discussion of idea of animals as individuals with individual minds; taking back Porphyry's rational argument (by Peter Singer as said, but also Carl Safina) implies the issue of animal suffering, but extends the view also on other aspects of other animals' minds, individuality and obviously rights.
To a neoplatonist, everything emanates from, and thus is part of, god's mind (Nous). The farther removed something is from the Nous the worse it is at thinking, which is basically extrapolating a metaphysical worldview from the observation that rocks are dumber than animals and animals are dumber than humans.
I've been a vegetarian and then a vegan since 1995. It has nothing to do with religion or any gods..I'm also an atheist because morality and decency does not come from the worship of some imaginary deity. It's about not inflicting abuse and pain on animals and having sympathy, instead of the divisiveness and killing that comes with religion!
Youre killing a ton of animals eating your plants from those harvested fields friend. There's no moral high ground for any diet. What lives must kill something else to survive, that is the truth of nature
Nice generalization there, "divisiveness and killing that comes with religion". A bad interpretation of abrahamic religions is what causes divisiveness and killing.
I wonder from where this gentleman Mr.Flip H, collecting all this rare information about people & cultures 1000 of years back. There is no words to scribe an appreciation for it than just 🙏 in my Indian way.
The Buddha only ate what was offered to him. He did not SEEK to eat meat. One cannot compare a highly evolved being like the Buddha with Shaolin monks.
@@gilgamesh7652 The plants rights activists have arrived, your sophistry is laughable, childish at best. We have to eat, if you really cared about plants, which have no neurons, or nociception, also the fact it takes up to 16KG of plants, for 1KG of flesh, you'd be vegan. Thanks for making the case for being 100% plant based 🤣
It's impossible for the modern comforts we have to exist without harming animals. You think cities would exist if we didn't kill massive amounts of animals and their habitats? You think humans could live without killing other predators? It doesn't mean we should create whole industries around raising animals for slaughter, but human beings have to kill some animals or risk death and severe discomfort. Also humans selectively choose to protect some animals at the expensive of others. Protecting the lives of dogs and cats means not protecting the lives of other small animals they eat. Protecting the lives of rabbits and chickens sometimes requires killing other predators. Also, in areas where predators have been removed, animals like deer, rats, and mice need their population to be thinned or they spread disease and their larger population faces persistent malnutrition and death by starvation.
@@JEP-Tech Veganism philosophical principle "Man should live without exploiting animals". You clearly don't comprehend the definition, yet apply your sophistry. It's impossible to live with zero harm, but we can live without DELIBERATE exploitation and violence towards the other species.
As a Christian I find Porphyry very attractive. He's very much in tune with Christian ascetics and mystics. How would you define him in religious terms? What were his practices and beliefs? Did he pray or meditate?
Such a cool video , I practice this lifestyle and many think I’m weird for it. I always believed we must overcome resistance and practice moderation and discipline which first inspired by the works of the founding fathers. The founding fathers were influenced by classical thinkers , so cool ❤ I’m also from the levant , excellent video
That thumbnail deserves a like for sure lol
Very down to earth with the youth
Gave me a chuckle 😅
Yeah right!
Hamburger of a sort have existed long before his time. Fast food restaurants serving their version of hamburgers and related sandwiches were just as widespread in Rome and the empire as baths, bakeries, wineries...
Several thousands of years ago there were Sumerian restaurants/taverns with shades, complex kitchens, including food made of grilled fish, mammalian, and bird steaks, most likely meatball like stuff, served with flatbreads, vegetables, fruits and beer& wine. There is archaeological evidence of it with several evidences for types of food they served. They were mostly served kebab or gyros plates, but probably they also put them inside flatbread to make something similar to döner/ dürüm / schwarma or flat subway I propose that it was also a necessity for travelers packing yummy food for their journey in textile or leather. And it wasn't nearly the first, only the earliest that was found recently.
new meme material
I've been a vegetarian since I was born. I never tasted any meat. Both my father and Mother have been vegetarian for more than 50 years. We are teachers of ancient philosophy, and i get great inspiration on the ideas of pythagoras, proclus, apolonius, plotinus and also the essenes and others. It makes sense to me to keep vegetarian, and i feel sad for those who tell me.one cannot live without meat, specially now that my country (brazil) is burning with criminal fires caused by the meat industry to create pasture for cattle while the world burns in heat and drought. Great video, thanks
Picanha is dope tho
Jokes aside, it's great to see someone west of Islamabad who has been vegetarian for all their life. My vegetarian girlfriend barely ate any meat as a child and gave it up after the age of 21 or so and frankly I wish I could do that, but I grew up with a mother who always worked in the meat industry so that's a bit difficult on me 😅
It's a choise, animLrights
Its burning because of how many pets are people hoarding in their houses it's never about cattle
Cats & dogs are horrible on earth & they're in billions
@@TMahatOk yeah I think you’re not being entirely serious lad
The first thing you master is yourself. And the first thing you overcome in yourself is your taste, speech and senses.... this is the same for thinkers everywhere!
As a vegan and overall lover of animals it fills my heart with joy to see a shift in people’s consciousness.
It fills my heart and stomach with joy when I eat non vegan food and someone else do the same
I’m vegan of 9 years 😊
You think its ethical killing 1000s of animals for your plant food? Vegans have no clue how their food is grown, yet they dare sit and tell is what is moral and what isnt 😂
@@istoppedlaughing5225 you are low vibrational filled with fear and anxiety, i pity you.
@@istoppedlaughing5225It fills you with joy when people are cruel to animals? Weird
I have been plant-based since 1981-82. That is now more than forty years. I am 60 and incredibly healthy. No medications, all my internal organs and I look and feel younger than my years. I am so glad I found this way of living.
I can relate. I've been Plant based since 2021, and I too have found the same with how I feel, and look younger than my age.
how... anecdotal
There are more people in that state out of eating only carnivore so error of attribution there buddy.
Looking young is more genetic than anything, also if you've lived more stress free in addition to not exposing your skin to harmful matter.
Vegan for 40yrs too 💪
Awesome!! Thank you for taking the time to cover a topic like this. :)
All of your work on neo platonism has helped me understand my own religious background, and formulate my philosophical aspiration all the better! Thank you for the quality you provide with such consistency!
I really enjoy this vid, thank you. I've always been plant based, as a child I was very skinny because I just couldn't eat flesh, it made me sick. It was mostly mental, I knew it was dead flesh and being a sensitive person, I felt it deeply. My family wasn't vegetarian so I survived on the side carrots and potatoes. I had to leave my home as a teen and then buy my own food, discover other ethnic foods, beans, chickpeas... I gained weight and really felt amazing. Fully plant based since 2002. This works for body and mental health.
Supplement B12 🙂
Oh you are like me. Never wanted to eat the meat that my mother put on my plate I knew what it was. She used to beat the hell out of me - it was a horrible time and I left when I was 17 - I'm now 70 still here - a little vegan old lady
@@ChickpeatheTortieI wish a group of you elder vegan ladies would start a podcast or a UA-cam channel about your life and experiences and such ❤ Meat eaters won't stop telling us young vegans we'll become sick and weak by our 40s and die in our 50s and things like that 😑🤦🏻 It'd be great to have a place to redirect them and show them that's not the case. Anyways, thanks for everything you did before us, it led us to the (hopefully) revolution we're living now ❤ thanks so so much
@@cassandro9445 Hello - thank you so much for your lovely comment and yes you are right. I'm very 'camera shy' but I will get in touch with 'Animal Aid' and 'Hench Herbivore' and suggest that. I know what you are saying I used to hear it myself all the time. I've lost track of the number of non-vegans that I have outlived and best of all I'm still the same size as I was at 18 which I'm so happy about - Love Liz and 7 cats xox
I'm not at all sensitive so I eat mostly steak and blue cheese 😃 feel amazing
Just finished the video. I've watched your videos for a few years now. Grew up Babtist but converted to Zen years ago. Also vegan for 6 years and vegetarian for many years before that. Doing a workshop soon on animal rights and Buddhism for my Sangha. Been reading a lot of Buddhist sources on this topic so this video came at a great time for me to compare with "western" perspectives in antiquity. Wishing everyone well. May all beings be healthy, happy, and free from suffering.
Do u see any effect after u start vegan foods on your body please share experience.
You’re probably familiar with Tara Brach.
I really liked her take on this prayer:
She said, “May all beings everywhere awaken this heart of compassion. May we all dedicate ourselves to taking care of the life within and around us. May there be peace on earth, peace everywhere.”
In my teens and twenties, I was a vegan and drawn to Zen. I think that’s where my interest in this kind of wisdom first began.
The authors connected to the spirit rock lineage are so interesting to read!
Happy new year to you 🎉
I’ve been vegan 9 years . I’m Methodist.raised by an atheist.
Awesome, I've been vegan since 2011 💚🌱💚
@@Donkeylover192I’ve been Vegan over 10 years. I went off all meats, chicken, fish, eggs and all dairy including cheese. Two things of note, that the calories are more dilute so you will need to be eating more food. I also do not eat oil or fat except for a seasoning such as a few chopped walnuts on my salad.
I had been in a wheelchair with gouty arthritis, my hands were very sore too.
I started out with lower fiber foods such as oatmeal and rice as one’s digestion will be less shocked by eating as I do now. Even if it takes substituting a vegan meal for one of your regular meals, like one week, you do all breakfast, next week, all lunches and third week all dinners, you will get there but your intestines have more time to adjust.
So inside of three woods I was out of my wheelchair and feeling much better, more alert, sleeping better. I am now 71 years old, at 60 I was going through a lot of hot flashes, these became less intense, by three weeks on the diet, I was breaking out in sweat half as much and by a month, 1/4 of what it was. Inside of 3 months, very few menopause symptoms remained.
Now you will have to pay attention to slowly increasing fiber as the standard American diet is rather low in fiber. You can expect that you will have more BMs as not only daily, but several times a day. This is normal. You will also note that the BM’s have very little odor and you may have more farts, but generally they are not loud and are odor free.
Body odor goes away, but I still shower and bathe, but I don’t have odor anywhere, including my feet.
I would suggest you walk as exercise and increase from what feels comfortable to doing the 10,000 Steps which is very healthy. Begin with 5 minutes and increase to 1 hour per day. If weight loss is a goal, I will tell you I lost 80 lbs., all without having to feel I was starving myself.
There are Vegan foods, many are high in fat and are not good for you. Womemn need less daily fat than men do. For me 10 grams of fat or less and I lose weight, 15 , I maintain my weight. 20 grams, I will gain weight.
I follow”The Starch Solution”, a book by Dr. John McDougall, MD. There are other diets, this seemed easiest to follow for me. He has many lectures on UA-cam.
Good luck
It was so great to hear this! This explains so much of what has happened to me in the last couple of years! Now I'm staying fired up!
Porphyry's works are the only reason why I was willing to click on this video but I don't think many people will have heard that name before so kudos to you for a great video on the topic and exposing the ideas to potentially more people. 🎉
Love Porphyry! Better writer than Plotinus, honestly.
@@LetsTalkReligion Now that's something controversial! 😄 What's your favourite writing of his?
@@iustinianoantalazar5021 Keep in mind I never said he was a better philosopher than Plotinus, I just think his writing style is clearer and more enjoyable to read. Granted, I have only read translations, so part of that could just be the translation style, too.
As for favorite writings, that's difficult! There is something about the personal nature of his Letter to his wife (Marcella) that I really like. I also love his interpretation of Homer in On the Cave of the Nymphs.
And "Launching-points to the realm of mind" is a nice summary of Neoplatonist philosophy, even though it basically only rehashes the arguments from the Enneads in simpler form.
@@LetsTalkReligion At the end of the day neoplatonism is just speculative nonsense
This is seems so influenced by the teachings of Zarathustra and the Zoroastrian philosophy and their Magi
🌜❤️🔥🔥✨🌞✨🔥❤️🔥🌛
Porphyry was quoted as once saying, "While the Gods have proclaimed Christ to have been most pious, the Christians are a confused and vicious sect," making him probably one of the earliest people to say "I don't have a problem with Jesus, it's his fan club I can't stand"
A 3rd century philosopher said “fan club” ?
@@dbaue7343 Obviously not.
@@VesperOfRoses I don't think that's what that quote means, especially if you put it in the larger context of what Porphyry has said about Christ.
@@dbaue7343 Of course, they were amateur hand fan making enthusiasts in clubs. JK OFC, read again what OP wrote.
On topic I find basically everyone agreeing that Jesus Christ was right or at least admirable, from Porphyry through all gnostic and other Christians, Hinduist and Buddhist tradition to Islam and beyond.
His teaching were twisted used for exactly the opposite things that he was teaching and how he lived his life.
(I also like how some Indian philosophers or even legendary 'gods' ended up being Christian and Muslim saints and angels. I was fascinated by this when I discovered it as a child.
@@VesperOfRoses oops I read it again and fucked up. Oh well haha
Great video Filip! The animal rights arguments of the 17th / 18th century Puritan and Quaker vegans and vegetarians also sound strikingly modern.
Thanks man!
I'll have to look into that!
@@LetsTalkReligion Maybe the next video in the series could be about the continuing religions and cultures which emphasizes and sometimes mandates vegetarianism. I am talking about Vaishnavism sect in Hinduism, Jainism along with all others Indic cultures who discard the panchamakar mode of worship (Mind you, Shaktism mandates animal sacrifice to the goddess). Maybe you can go into details about how Vaishnavism and Shaivism came to prefer vegetarianism when both are rooted in the highly sacrifice oritented Vedic culture which had animal sacrifices as a mode of worship for almost all gods including (Vishnu and Rudra which are the vedic names for the current Vishnu and Shiva). You can also go into the role the Jain Tirthankaras as well as Buddha played in voicing against animal sacrifice as well as the view of Buddhists in this matter as well as the views of Shankaracharya and other shaiva gurus on this topic. (I think you have already discussed Ramanujacharya, Madhava and other Vaishnavate saints) You can go into the highly non-vegetarian diets of the Shakta Hindus (who are the dominant demographic in East India as well as over 80% of Nepal) and the animal sacrifice rituals in Newari Hinduism and festivals like Dashain (Dushera) which sees thousands of animal sacrifice.
To all historically challenged Indians who might comment that "Jainism and Buddhism are a part of Hinduism/Sanatan Dharma" - please stfu.
As the video proves these ideas aren't modern but ancient and ultimately are a form of asceticism, a way of depriving oneself of the natural world. Modernity is materialist and is no longer concerned with animist ideas like the souls of animals. Now I'm all for reduction of suffering including animal suffering, but that doesn't mean we can't kill them without suffering and consume them. It means instead that we should keep animals bred for consumption from suffering as much as we can while they're alive. What will ultimately force us to accept a more vegetarian diet isn't our ethics but the economics of meat feeding our exploding population numbers.
And we see what became of Sylvester Graham.
And unless vegetarian means vegetation only, still cruel?
Coincidentally, I was just planning on reading Plutarch's essay on animal eating. Vegetarianism in Antiquity is sadly an underdiscussed topic, whicu leaves the impression, not unlike reincarnation does, that it is a modern caprice adopted in the West due to some sort of Oriental fetishism.
Love your content.
Vegetarianism has been around since antiquity and always was involved in many temple protocols of various regions including Judeo-Christianity but has been downplayed with protestant sects. There has been a dual between human-animal sacrifice barbeque cults vs bread & wine vegetarian sects.
@@asherasatorBut the old testament has way too many laws and instructions about animal sacrifices so kind of makes no sense to think that Judaism or early Christianity encouraged people to be vegetarians
@@gilgamesh7652 The Torah sacrifices were a Pharisee/Sadducee compendium brought into Jerusalem after the Maccabee revolt that removed the Melkizedek vegetarian non-animal sacrifice priesthood and king, then installed the Hasmoneans who brought in the Pharisees from the outskirts of Babylon. The original Jerusalem Talmud has no Kodashim animal sacrifices. The Essene/Nazarenes were vegetarian and animal rights advocates from the original Melkizedek priesthood. The Abraham story is basically showing Abraham converted from the human-animal sacrifice sect to the bread and wine eucharist sect. That's why some later OT books and psalms contradict Torah blood cult barbeque ways. The narratives of Christianity were to reinstall the Melkizedek priesthood ways. Jesus is called "A priest forever in the line of Melkizedek". Rabbinical Judaism that evolved from the Pharisees with the holidays and traditions are not older than 200 BC, and is a false religion in the context of the Melkizedek sects and original ways of Jerusalem and Moses. Early Christianity did not accept many books from the old testament because of these facts and were later canonized together within the Roman empire to stop squabbling among the sects and try to please all, because each one represented different political and religious ideas. Rabbinical Judaism hijacked Christianity first through Protestantism and later infiltrated the RCC. From the earliest times Christianity and many eastern desert fathers and important figures promoted Vegetarianism.
@@gilgamesh7652there are periods of fasting where its adherents abstain from meat eating and even dairy products all together. During lent, the eastern Orthodox and even the Ethiopian Orthodox will traditionally abstain from meat and dairy products all together. Even outside of the lenten season, there are still periods of strict fasting from meat and dairy. The Roman Catholics used to have this tradition as well, but in the modern era, the abstention from meat, with the exception of fish, is observed on Fridays during lent. As for Judaism, especially in its mystical form, it’s thought that vegetarianism is the ideal due to beliefs surrounding the lack of meat consumption in paradise and such.
@@chrisjackson8151 I am living in an Eastern Orthodox Christianty, and I come to the conclusion that the reason this "fasting" on meat, eggs, dairy and oils and of course wine and alcohol, was because of the fact that these things in the first centuries were expensive and we didn't had the equivalent of today's food industry, in the old testament an actual fasting was no food and no water at all, and in the new testament both Jesus and Saint Paul/Pavel said that food doesn't make someone more or less holy or good nor does make someone more or less bad or evil
The lower animalistic body may want to consume flesh. The higher self (soul) definitely only wants fruits/vegetables. Feed the soul.
There is no higher or lower soul. A fool like you believes in all sorts of crab(p) .
Well said
Building blocks of your being dont come from fuits/vegetables. Listen to your body and feed it what it (really) wants.
@ there are plenty of vegan bodybuilders full of energy. We can fully build muscle etc on a vegan diet.
😂
We'll see how you're doing when you get metabolic disease later in life friend
"My body will not be a tomb for other creatures. I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."
- Leonardo da Vinci
Truer Words Have Never Been Spoken!
Cope
Great video! Animals are Souls too and they are intelligent in their own way.
As a vegetarian it’s always interesting to hear out our predecessors. Very interesting video!
The ancient Egyptians aka Nubians we’re vegetarian and sometimes eat fish, according to scientists.
As a former vegetarian, I'd like to mention that a significant difference is the industrial dairy industry (which forms part of the meat/sl*ughter industry) didn't exist back then.
Now, male calves are unalived, female dairy cows often find themselves ending up as low grade burger meat, after being constantly impregnated and having their babies taken away til they're "spent". There is no moral justification for the dairy industry. The dairy industry IS the meat industry.
The dairy industry wasn't part of the meat industry back then, being a significant difference.
😂 take a look at stable isotope testing done on human remains friend. We are meat eaters and thats how our biology prefers to operate.
Plants slowly kill us
@@Cenot4phthen I’ve been ‘slowly dying’ for 40 years. 🤦♂️
Another excellent, well-researched, and professionally taught video.
Awesome topic. I’d be really interested to hear about other ethical debates and philosophies in the ancient world. A few topics that come to mind are slavery, poverty/charity to the poor, and childbirth vs chastity
They loved their slaves.
Enlightenment is not found in the slaying of conscious beings.
Zinc is the precursor of testosterone which stabilizes mood among many other vitamins like omega 3
@@sachi-gp3wjZinc is present in many vegetables in good quantities and omega 3 in seeds, nuts and algae.
Indeed.
nor is it found in its opposite
@ you don’t think that being generally merciful points someone toward an enlightened path?
Giving up meat was a huge paradigm shift for me. Changed the way I see the world.
Animal agriculture is harmful to justice
Oh really, how so ????
@ once I realized how easy it was to survive without meat, I had to question why we do it? I felt like I escaped a negative karma loop. My love of animals and diet suddenly aligned. Life became more about cooperation instead of competition.
Same! I also understood that meat is addictive and most people are addicted. When you stop consuming flesh you have to go through withdrawals first, but after a while you start feeling amazing and very happy for no reason
@@vilvismargots5937 meat 🥩 is addictive ? c’mon
animals will one day be free of this slavery in human industries
Hope
Here! Here!
Dream on
Vegans are intrinsicly depressed
FREE all Animals 🙏
Let FREEDOM Reign in the Kingdom of Heaven
“I’m feeling like there’s no point in being here anymore.”
“I think you need a holiday.”
Some things don’t change.
Thanks for this! As someone who has been a vegetarian for 56 years, I feel that it is important to highlight the long history of vegetarianism.
That’s amazing - way to go ❤
I’m almost six years in. I wish I went veg sooner.
@DorchesterMom glGood for you.
Why not go all the way?
So you eat dairy but just not meat?
@@supreme8113 I'm essentially vegan. I might cheese four or five times per year (don't want to be too dogmatic). I don't eat eggs.
Vegan for 8 years and counting! I’m heartened to find this video
👏🙂
Great video.
Very interesting to see the ancient philosophers though the same way we do. We are only separated by time.
Came for a 6 mins video… idk how I didn’t realize 35 mins gone by!!! Good video 🙏🏽
Beautiful content . As a vegan it feels like confirmation bias but a compassionate bias. Love it 😊
Like in yoga, not eating meat purifies the nerves for the working of prana flowing thru for raising the kundalini.
I've been vegan for 10 years, the old Kundalini is yet to rise 😂❤
Wrong, that is a very materialist perspective. True Kundalini Rises with Heart Center awakening and activation. I had a kundalini awakening and I ate meat before and still do. Fasting from sugars and processed foods is what actually calms the nerves.
@@jagatech Is drinking beer ok ?
@@jagatech ua-cam.com/video/LQRAfJyEsko/v-deo.htmlsi=ATcXapN5oFfKWA_o
@@Imcarolinek Horrible. That is why I only buy animal products from ethical farms where animals have a good life, great health and clean death when it is their time. Thankfully I have several i've visited locally and they are nothing like that documentary.
Nietzsche had it right when he commented that those “great” philosophers from “ancient” Greece were thought leaders of a culture already in decline.
I did vipassana 10 day meditation course, total silence for 10 days , after 10 days I came back home .. and after 2 days mom cooked chicken/mutton … I was not eating , I dint even knew I would ever leave meat…. my habits changed , I sleep on time, eat nutritious food(no meat or egg) , my stomach and bowel and shifting habits improved enormously and my mental calmness and clarity increased so much 🙏🙏🙏🙇🙇🙇
Congratulations 🙏
Thank you Filip!
This was a beautifully enriching video! 😊
Hopefully can spread this valuable knowledge to people around me with this video :)
What a great topic! Looking forward to more thematic videos like this
Another veggie here, thank you for exploring this perennial topic of the sanctity of all sentient beings. The detailed argument for the inclusion of animal life into our, and Gods care, from so long ago, was inspiring.
Perenialism is a pseudoscientific hypothesis with deep fascist roots and a cultish following.
There were vegetarians and meat eaters/sacrificers for as long as religions existed, and both have had rational arguments in favor of their positions
Just to note, dairy cows are routinely unalived and sold as low grade burger meat.
@dontnoable that's their telos. They were born, as their parents before the for probably thousands of generations, for that exact purpose. Just as hammers were made of wood and iron to smash nails, cows were made from wild bovines to be self growing burger meat creatures.
Its ok to not want to use hammers. Just don't pretend you are doing of your love for them
@dontnoable that's their telos. They were born, as their parents before them for probably thousands of generations, for that exact purpose. Just as hammers were made of wood and iron to hit nails, cows were made from wild bovines to be self growing burger meat creatures.
It's ok not to want to use hammers. Just don't pretend you are doing that of your love for them
@@nikitakrim02 ua-cam.com/video/LQRAfJyEsko/v-deo.htmlsi=ATcXapN5oFfKWA_o
It always blows my mind how influencial many of these Greek philosophers/philosophies were in estanlishing later religious traditions like gnosticism & Christianity. And how many of their moral concerns still resonate today even if people are unaware of the earlier ancient origins regarding both animal rights & human rights. (anti slavery, anti war, anti greed, pro vegetarian, etc)
I watched this entire video and I have to say it was really well-done and even though I had heard of Porphyry, I never knew about his views on animals and the consumption of them. Thank you very much for making this video! I'm a vegetarian myself, and while I've heard quite a bit about it's history in the east, this is the first time I'm hearing much about it's history in western antiquity :)
Thank you for your review. I’ll give the video a good chance, now.
The more I learn about Hellenic Philosophy, the more I get amazed by how similar it is to Indic philosophy. And I am convinced that there must have been an ancient connection between the two which influenced one another. Fascinating.
The Essene Humane gospel blew me away. I wish you would do a video on it.
0:25 clearing out them sinuses in the river is always faster than reloading
Ah, you're persuaded by Mr Red😂
As a relevant anecdote according to Marinus, Proclus was a conscious vegetarian for a great length of time but interestingly enough was talked out of it by his mentors Syrianus and Plutarch of Athens.
Thank you for this excellent content. As a vegetarian myself since I was a teenager I was always interested in vegetarianism in different cultures. In the monasteries of Greece many of the monks only rarely eat meat, mostly and only occasionally fish. Vegetarianism is respected. I recently read an article where research had been done on the remains of gladiators. It turns out that they were labeled as the vegetable eaters and it seems that they were vegetarian. this idea that if you are going to do hard physical work, you have to eat. Meat is not really true either. Many extreme athletes today are becoming vegans and vegetarians. i’ve seen hard laborers in India that are vegetarian, and the Predominantly Sikh population of the Punjab are very robust and vegetarian.
I have a view on eating meat and being vegetarian. Some argue that animal life is lost and that they have "rights"
Some say, it's due to animals being used as sacrifice. I see no light in either!
As both animals, fruits and vegetables do have lives of their own and are all used in sacrifices!!!
I feel living in balance, moderation, and gratitude in our approach and choices of either lifestyle is essential... it's freeing!!!
The thumbnail preview is awesome and, we can corroborate that after taking control of our diet to disinclude dead flesh, this has made all the difference in our health, as we had a position control ingestion that we are having to recover from and a fresh diet helps so much 🙏
Please do a video on vegetarianism in primitive Christianity and the Jewish Christians. I would love to see it!
I'd definitely be interested in that.
Yes please
Orthodox Christian monks are still vegetarian (some eat fish once or twice a year, but many abstain the whole year)
He does mention them in older videos, but it would be great to see a complied expounded work
@@DANtheMANofSIPA yes they are well disciplined, I think all of us should have some degree of discipline in life, no self control is bad. Like even if you can limit your diet by eating one type of meat, or fast for some days in a dedicated period could do good
Interesting to see the similarities between vegetarianism then and now!
700 years separate Pythagoras and Porphyry and neither’s vegetarianism took hold.
Plato’s vegetarianism was based on political pragmatism not on metaphysical or philosophical ideals. Plotinus had a lot of views that most contemporaries as well as modern vegans would disagree with including anti-astrology and anti-sex.
It's taking a long time for many violent things to become less tolerated, illegal, etc. for many obvious reasons it's going to take time for things to be most efficient and demonstrated most beneficial and eventually all of these truths will be inescapable.
Hey this is my first time here. I love what you have done here. Thank you so much for sharing! Keep up the good work. I feel I am learning a lot. :)
My brain needed some sustenance instead of work out music and this was in my recommendations! I really appreciate how you deliver information, wow Thankyou! Oh wow you also cover music! And, make music! Ok, here for it👍
Most religious doctrines preach limiting meat in your diet, and many of those aren't known to do so by the general public.
I'm not a vegetarian but have a lot of respect for those who are
Why? It's basically a mental illness and a cult.
Thank you kindly good sir
You should stop eating animals and respect yourself :)
@@I_goch You can't respect yourself by denying yourself your natural diet. Keep deleting my comments. Truth and reality won't change because of it.
Maybe you should stop telling others to respect themselves and respect them yourself.@@I_goch
For clarification can you explain the philosophical meaning and implications of the word intellect...
Perhaps a whole video on this topic could bring a log of light and depth to these discussions
Thank you for introducing me to Porphyry. I really resonated with his theory about daimones. Definitely something new and interesting to look into if I don’t forget his name.
Didnt realize some of these hellenistic philosophies were so similar to advaita vedanta from india.
Check out Hindu and Buddhist influence on Epicurus
Two sides of the same coin
Maybe the next video in the series could be about the continuing religions and cultures which emphasizes and sometimes mandates vegetarianism. I am talking about Vaishnavism sect in Hinduism, Jainism along with all others Indic cultures who discard the panchamakar mode of worship (Mind you, Shaktism mandates animal sacrifice to the goddess). Maybe you can go into details about how Vaishnavism and Shaivism came to prefer vegetarianism when both are rooted in the highly sacrifice oritented Vedic culture which had animal sacrifices as a mode of worship for almost all gods including (Vishnu and Rudra which are the vedic names for the current Vishnu and Shiva). You can also go into the role the Jain Tirthankaras as well as Buddha played in voicing against animal sacrifice as well as the view of Buddhists in this matter as well as the views of Shankaracharya and other shaiva gurus on this topic. (I think you have already discussed Ramanujacharya, Madhava and other Vaishnavate saints) You can go into the highly non-vegetarian diets of the Shakta Hindus (who are the dominant demographic in East India as well as over 80% of Nepal) and the animal sacrifice rituals in Newari Hinduism and festivals like Dashain (Dushera) which sees thousands of animal sacrifice.
To all historically challenged Indians who might comment that "Jainism and Buddhism are a part of Hinduism/Sanatan Dharma" - please stfu.
egde lord
Chatterjee bro, you say "Shaktism mandates animal sacrifice to the goddess".
This isn't necessarily true. Because I know a super powerful Devi temple with absolutely zero animal sacrifice.
So it depends on the kind of consecration and maintanence rituals that happen there.
Maybe you've come across only that kind of Shaktism which mandates animal sacrifice.
@@Aanandlahar If you are talking about Vaishno devi, then the answer is in the name "Vaishno". There are other temples which have banned animal sacrifice due to state legislative mandate (and replaced with sacrificing vegetables). Dakshineshwar temple in Kolkata is a prime example of that. There are states where animal sacrifice is banned as a whole. I won't count these as exceptions to what I said as they merely have replaced the tradition with an emulation of cutting a gourd or pumpkin due to government orders. Otherwise, almost all devi temples has the panchamakar, tantric mode of worship. But you are right, some devi temples worship using the sattvik, dakshinachari means but they are mere exceptions to the general rule of tantric worship. The thing is that all of the Devi Bhagavatam, Kalika Puran etc readily describe the devi as "Chagbalipriya Homaagnipriyam" . So, if you are abiding their scriptures, then sacrifice becomes necessary.
Otherwise, like I said, you merely need see the case of Nepal to witness how many thousands of buffaloes are killed (sometimes they are even imported from China due to shortage) during Dashain (their Durga Puja). Newaris even sacrifice to Ganesh (see Suriya Vinayak temple) and the Bhairava form of Shiva(in Pashupatinath, Bhairavsthan and Bagh Bhairav and many others). Even Newari Buddhists sacrifice animals during Rato Macchindranath (Bungadya Jatra). Again, this is a mere exception to what I said regarding Shaivism and Smartism. They don't mandate such things but some temples do follow due to local/tribal customs. Heck, even the Pavan Narasimha temple in Ahobilam which is a Vaishnavate pilgrimage site (and one of the most important one) witnesses animal sacrifice each day outside the temple as the Chenchu tribe worships there using their tribal rituals. The Vaishnavs have tried and failed to stop this tradition and impose strict Ramanujacharyas pancharatra mode of worship, due to protection of tribal welfare mandated by the government.
I guess you have figured out by now that I am someone who perhaps has more knowledge about this particular topic than I want to possess. Even though I am a researcher in Mathematics (Probability Theory and Stochastic Processes), I have studied East Asian cultures for a long time now. I have just stated examples from India and Nepal. I can go into several hundreds of examples from Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Thailand and all of Indochina in general and as far east as Sulawesi in Indonesia and their burial rituals wherever Indic culture once flourished.
@@arghyadeepchatterjee6100 I was talking about Linga Bhairavi in South India. It's amazing to see your interest in religious cultures though!
I've never eaten any non-veg food and can't imagine personally sacrificing animals. But I'll try to share whatever little understanding I have, of this path.
Like you've done, I'll try to substantiate my points with examples.
In Indic spiritual systems, a variety of practices can lead to the dissolution of ego and heightened awareness. They're all considered as valid spiritual paths.
They might look very crude, and some of them are crude. But as long as they make people drop ego or *_Aham Bhaav_* and increase awareness, they're still considered spiritual. By beholding Devi as much higher that oneself, we drop _Aham Bhaav._
And not all human beings have very refined minds/hearts anyway, for all of them to follow Dakshin-marg.
*For example* - Tantric panchamakar is not very gross compared to Aghora practices. But even Aghora can be considered valid spirituality, as long as it increases awareness and not ego, and the Aghori doesn't hurt others.
I'll give you some examples as to how dropping _Aham_ is the real deal -
*#1.* It's recorded in Ramakrishna Vachanamrit by Sri Master Mahashaya that someone asked Sri Ramakrishna whether it's necessary to stop eating non-vegetarian food for spiritual growth.
He said - "It is not. We just need to give up desires and greed/attachment."
*#2.* When Aadi Shankara reached Dakshin-Kali temple, he wanted to stopped animal sacrifice. Suddenly his body felt weak and he couldn't walk. That's when the Devi appeared to him as a wonderful little girl and said - "It's ok, let them worship me in whichever way they can understand"
*#3.* I've heard that these powerful Devis Rakini, Dakini, Lakini and more have been created by Maha-Yogis, for people who walk Shaakt paths.
*###3.1* This 'creation of beings' might sound new to some people. So here's an example - it's very well-known that some Great Yogis have had a project called "Maitreya Buddha" since very long.
They created a magnificient being like that. And the Theosophical society actually wanted to merge Maitreya into a suitable human medium. But they found J. Krishnamurti who anyway shone like a bright sun, all by himself.
*###3.2* This 'merging of beings' might also sound new to someone. So here's an example - It's been recorded that Lord Kartik was created by merging 6 beings. That's why he's called Shan-Mukha or 6-faced.
If one is interested in touching spiritual depths oneself, it doesn't serve much purpose comparing two different sadhana marg.
I'll give an example for this too -
During Ramakrishna's time, Kalicharan used to be immersed in idol worship. Vivekanand saw this and asked him to stop. One day, Viveka attained Samadhi and first thing he did was to forcefully influence Kalicharan's mind. He communicated a thought asking him to throw away his idols.
Ramakrishna saw this and told Vivekanand - "Due to me you attained this state, and now I'm taking it back, as you've misused it. You'll get it back only on your last day on Earth."
@@Aanandlahar I applaud you for writing such a detailed comment. Well, I was talking strictly of what scriptures say and what the tantric temples like Tarapith, Kamakhya, Kalighat etc practice or even less famous ones which are shakti peeths like Kankalitala, Hatimura temple (which practiced human sacrifice till the last century), Chamundeshwari (where human sacrifice till Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan put a ban on it in the 18th century). The points made by Ramkrishna Paramhamsa and Vivekananda are all valid points and I won't disagree with them but my comment was on the practices and what the scriptures and pranalis specify. And I don't mean any disrespect towards RKM but still, it is a modern movement and being a Mathematics scholar myself, I have to go by empirical evidence. How many tantric temples actually follow or even give heed to what Ramkrishna and Vivekanda said? The answer is most probably 0 or maybe atmost 1 or two. So, again I state, exceptions don't prove a rule.
Let's take your example of Linga Bhairavi. Sadhguru himself tells in one of his videos that the Isha foundation does not do animal sacrifice and "spill blood everywhere and we don't do the blood business here" even though most other devi temples do. So there in it lies the point I was making. Some temples don't do this by going against the scriptures like Kalika Purana. That is entirely their choice and I laud their effort and I absolutely detest animal sacrifice be it from Hinduism or Islam or any religion. But again I state, these are mere exceptions.
The only examples of such temples are either the modern day ones like Dakshineshwar or Linga Bhairavi as you mentioned. They obviously don't want animal sacrifice and wants to stay clear of extremist vamachari tantric occult rituals as because they are modern day temples. And Vaishno Devi is the only older example as because the legend itself is that the worshipped deity itself is a "Vaishnavi" and hence the name "Vaishno Devi" and hence only vegetarian food and sattvic worship is allowed.
Let me give you another example. The Jagannath Temple in Puri, albeit is mostly under Vaishnav control cannot stop animal sacrifice to take place inside the Vimala temple during the days of durga puja as it's a shakti peeth.
As for Dakinis Hakinis, these legends are mainly the result of Shaktism and Tantricism distancing itself from Brahminism and syncretically evolving with the Buddhist Mahasiddhas from East India. If you look at Mahasiddhas like Krishnacharya, Luipada, Matsayendranath, Gorakhnath and almost all others are venerated mahasiddhas of Tantric Buddhism also. Some scholars would even argue that Tantricism has it's root in Buddhism rather than Kashmiri Shaivism as is the popular belief. Well I am also have a lot of knowledge in Buddhism so I can go into further details as well about Maitreya or Nagarjuna and discuss how Professors/Chancellors of Nalanda like Virupa were notorious for secretly practicing vamachari tantra. Not only India, but I can go into how Jayavarman VII of Cambodia converted Hindu temples and patronized Buddhism by adopting Hevajra Tantra and performed blood sacrifices which paved the way for the decline of Hinduism in the Khmer empire. Well essentially, most of the Tantric goddesses including the concept of Yoginis and Mahavidyas have their roots in tantric buddhism.
But let me stop here as it has already gotten very long. If you want to discuss more then feel free to mail me. You can find me at arghyadeepc [at] iisc.ac.in
Thinking philosophically about existence itself and we relate and interact with our Universe is the reason why I have been vegan for years and vegetarian for decades.
I offer a toast to that. The toast is covered with butter, cheese, honey, and sliced meat.
Meditate on mono cropping
@@colethewolfboy Most of the mono crops are fed to farm animals. Why would I meditate on this when I eat a much wider variety of crops than most people?
@@Cancellator5000antivegans hitting out with their 'gotchas' like we've never heard about them before, rather than reflect on their impact on other lives
@@colethewolfboymeditate on foraging and biodiversity
Very informative. I really enjoyed the way you wove together a wide range of philosophical/spiritual issues into this discussion. That's not easy to do. // Over many years my appreciation for Porphyry has grown. While it is true that his writing is not as encompassing as Plotinus, nevertheless he can be inspiring for bringing ethical commitments into metaphysical speculation. I'm thinking of the way he talks about the classical virtues in this way. And his long essay on refraining from killing, eating, or sacrificing animals is one of the mos thorough that I have seen. I'm hoping that your post will encourage people to read it and engage with it. Thanks.
Thanks for this. I've been a vegetarian and spiritualist since 1976. A wonderful lifestyle! ❤💛🧡💚💛💙💚💜💙💚💙💛💚🧡❤💛🧡💚💛💙💚💜💙💜💚💙💚🧡💛❤🧡❤💛🧡💚💛💙💚💜💙💥💥💥💥🫀🫀🫀🫀🫀
I really envy you , I became a vegetarian in my 40s , I wish i had been vegetarian earlier .
Very cool .
Thank You Everybody for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth....
Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste
🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤
I was born in a vegetarian "caste" "bramhin"...from south india .after really long search today i came to know about origin of prejudice of attaching vegetarian diet to intellect .thank you very much.
I would differentiate vegans from vegetarians. The vegan diet is way too depriving.
@@joltjolt5060 vegan is almost the same, minus butter and cheese. It’s only depriving if you don’t have access to a varied diet.
But u look like a shudra
@@havingfunisnthard milk? hello
@@joltjolt5060How am I deprived? Lmao
weren't animal sacrifices considered necessary to roman civic religion, though? it was my understanding that abstaining from such could cause trouble with the authorities. how did they get away with it?
this is exactly like Advaita Vedanta of Ancient India, I think pythagoras was somehow connected to it as many indians visited the greek maybe he talked to them
Not exactly, but it seems like vedanta on the surface.
@@thehumancondition111 i think more similar on the inner core and slightly deviates further
Maybe they just developed it individually. 😅 No reason to believe that cultures can’t develop independently. And now we know they do. Native North Americans don’t have the same concept or God/Gods as the rest of the world. Africans even worshiped their ancestors for the most part before the Abrahamic religions invaded and converted them.
Jesus probably did the same
@@ccoodd26 prove it
This is cool, I have several interviews that touch on this topic with people from various religions and ethnicities. We should make a compilation together pulling from those on this subject we can almost make an entire documentary with the content I have I bet coupled with your skills would be epic.
9:20 So impressed by the pronunciation of the name!!!! Bravo 👏🏽
😢 Animal sacrific 5:56 = food for the Annunaki
The higher you are evolved spiritually, the less meat you eat.
If you have empathy, it’s a no brainier to leave the animals alone and stop killing them
most humans don't tho.
@@robindao5 do you?
I'd say, based on this video, those who turn vegan are those driven by their reason and intellect, which is why I fear that animals may be doomed because most people have tunnel vision and only care about fleeting pleasures
We evolved to hunt and eat a wide range of things.
@@user-kt8hf9tx6h we and many other species evolved to have feelings and emotions, and the capacity for empathy. Many immoral things that we find abhorrent were selected got through evolution. I don’t think it follows that we should do things just because they were involved in our evolutionary path…
Goodly timed.
Late to the party but wonderful vid thanks!
This was fantastic!! I love Plotinus and Profirius
Filip, I really enjoy your content. Is there any chance that some of these ideas are a co-mingling of Vedic/Buddhist philosophy with a Hellenistic flavoring? When I hear about these philosophers I can't help but think about the Bhagavad Gita and some of the teachings presented in it. Weren't the Greeks introduced to Vedic/Buddhist philosophy around 300-200 BC from Alexander the Great's conquests?
I love your channel, keep up the wonderful work!!
Indo-European beliefs in metempsychosic was probably found in all daughter cultures, so an anti-blood sacrifice current probably existed from very ancient times among many people.
Not to just direct people away from your channel, but for anyone interested your colleague Dr Justin Sledge at Esoterica has an amazing video on Theurgy that honestly serves as a great sequel to this one. (In fact, I was temporarily confused when you said you should do a video on Theurgy some day, 'cause I honestly misremembered and thought his video was one of yours!)
Vegan 4 years now… better health, better mind, higher perception. Thank you for the video
You've got an icon behind you. :O I watched a lot of your videos when I was a pagan and looking into different world religions. I had been studying Krishna and landed on one of your videos which eventually led me to the video you did on Hesychasm, which in turn led me to look more into the the Orthodox church. I haven't watched you in a few years, but it's cool that the first video I see now you have an icon on your shelf. While I'm not an Orthodox Christian... i am a rare breed of protestant that upholds many Orthodox practices, interpretation and canon.
thanks for sharing this video
How many vegetarian philosophers lived in the north?
When an animal was sacrificed, the animal sacrificed was often eaten. The Phoenician people were known to offer children as sacrifice, as did Abraham his son Isaac. Was cannibalism a part of these sacrifices?
There's some evidence of child sacrifice and cannibalism in Minoan Crete.
Now you're just jumping to conclusions.
Abraham didn't sacrifice his son. False all the way around including the unhealthy diet "some" people people on here are promoting.
😂
Probably where the communion bread and wine ritual really comes from , eating human flesh and drinking human blood.
That school he attended in Egypt was the Egyptian mystery schools, he returned to his home land in Samos and created his own mystery school,
The mystery schools was founded by Thoth Hermes.
Fascinating to hear about the history of vegetarianism via philosophy. I look forward to your video about the theurgy. 🙏🏻
Should have always been veganinsm only?
Must Go Vegan Not vegetarian
@@TheSapphireLeoYes
What an awesome compilation and flawless presentation, thanks!
You could have added Pythagoras enlightening experience in India and his changed outlook about natural powers as God which led to his astonishing work.
Regardless of any other health or preference consideration. Basically all living creatures need to eat other living creatures. The only exceptions are water and salt. So, the difference between vegetarian, vegan and carnivore can be resumed as where you put the level of consciousness of the living creature you eat. Because you are always eating something that was alive.
Hahaha... wow
It is a question of degrees. It is less damaging for a person to pick an apple and eat it, (even though there is life in the pips) than it is to hack into a living creature and bring about its demise so its flesh can be devoured. A lion doesn't have the mental capacity to make this distinction and its body is adapted to eat meat (but who are we to say the lion is not evolving?). Our bodies can and do live successfully without meat, so the decision belongs with the individual as to whether they wish to behave like a flesh-eating animal, or if they want to elevate themselves to a higher level of understanding in the grand scheme of things.
I have bio vege garden and aple shery tree so when you kill pork or chicken is same like i kill johns or Mery this two no exsist they are death but when I pick up aple from tree tree is there and nekst sesone i pick up aple from tree and agein tree is there so is big difrent
If it requires chasing it down and taking its life it does not compare with a tree offering a sweet fruit so it's seeds can be spread
@@dantechersi6056 Thank you for this comment. I hadn't thought of it in this way
This really spoke to me, thank you for sharing. Ever since I became an adult, after struggling with religion in my teens, I kinda came to the conclusion that God doesn't need us to do worship in their name, and that worship is a way for us to seek connection and ground ourselves. The whole argument on worshipping the One through silence makes me feel vindicated haha. Bless you.
I see sometimes you do whole videos about specific major characters in certain religions, you have entire videos dedicated to Sufi saints both modern and medieval. There are many many saints both ancient and modern especially in Indic religions, the most significant to me personally is Sri Ramakrishna, his teaching that all paths can lead to the same ultimate truth made me a perennialist.
He talked about this in many videos. I mean his personal life choices. He has interests in religions mainly Sufism which is why his master's major was in Sufism. This explains why most of his work is related to Islamic Sufism. Especially his early work. He is Swedish which explains European Christian and non-Christian figures. He also made videos that were associated with Chinese, Indians, and others. Filip is a great academic; part of his success is due to his passion and dedication plus his cool and calm narrating style, and personality. He also has a different channel for music.
I am grateful for your channel bro
Thank you so much for covering this topic!
In the yogic tradition the people say that vegetarianism raises your perception because the body becomes lighter and less of a burden, mostly because meat is harder to digest. By raising your perception it becomes easier to get to enlightenment.
Harder to digest? Never seen pieces of meat in my stool, can't say the same for plant foods...
@@erickgreen2361by that I mean the time for the food to move from the stomach to the intestine. Once the food is there the digestive process consumes much less energy. Therefore the quicker the food moves from stomach to intestine, the more energy you have free to use for your perception of the world. At least in my experience.
@@danielz.592 Quickly moving to the intestine doesn't mean it's being digested easily, the healthy body quickly gets rid of things it can't digest hence why people who eat more plant food go the bathroom more often with the exception of leaves and high water concentrated foods. Any energy you're feeling from plants is coming from the minerals...
Yeah, I tried a fasting of 3 days on that but I felt like a part of my voluntar strength was kind of gone so personaly is not worth
The problem is that meat is the easiest to digest. Fibre is the hardest to digest, it’s actually non digestible.
This seems to be very reminiscent of the Vedic culture.
I think its important for people to see actual slaughterhouse and facotory farm footage before enganging in philosophical debate. Otherwise "meat" becomes a sort of an abstract concept.
You can be against these and still eat meat, there are better ways to treat animals.
@@alexander1055 the same applies to slavery & patriarchy though
I'd encourage you to educate yourself on how mass farming is killing millions of animals each year.
@@dustyhendrix1218 the same applies to modern day agriculture.
@@alexander1055oxymoron!!!
God bless you and your UA-cam channel. Your content is incredible
"When you know what goes in, you know what comes out". - Chico Robin, Teen Titans Go!
I myself am not a vegetarian, but as a spiritual seeker I am starting to wonder if I am missing something by not going plant based. I also am dealing with health issues though, and feel meats nutritional impact helps me. But the energy of the meat as a dead animal is certainly felt as well.
Are you sure that you are getting enough 'salt' - we live in this mad world of salt is bad bad bad but I have found the opposite. Also make sure that you take a couple of good quality vitamin pills every day and lots of VitC
Good point. Celtic salt is what I use.
@@JennyOSunshine Take some extra
@@ChickpeatheTortiesalt contributes to the leading cause of death, hypertension.
You just need to learn how to simply prepare and acclimate to consuming legumes, greens, greens, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices and a proper variety of each and ditch all the meat, eggs and dairy. You are having problems that people eating a well-planned vegan diet are not having.
The interesting fact is that the Porphyry's take about animal rationality was actually forgotten for a long time.
The abstinence from eating animals was all ascesis-driven for century, and it came back into "rational" philosophy only with Jeremy Bentham at the beginning of 19th century.
Bentham's argument, though, didn't involved animal intellect at all, but only their ability to suffer, an argument which lead the discussion about animal rights for at least 150 years, and resulted in a lot of weakness (should we eat a human incapable of feeling pain? Isn't that true and evident that plants also suffer? And anyway is animal suffering really suffering, or theirs is just a mechanical reaction as Descartes told us? etc.)
We had to wait Peter Singer to bring back the argument of animal rationality/mind/self/whatever-you-want-to-call-it back in the discussion.
And people are still telling me that plants suffer too...
The animals' ability to suffer kind of falls under the category of rational in the way that it is used by Porphyry!
@@LetsTalkReligion Surely, but the problem is exactly that suffering is in the category of rational, but rational is not in the category of suffering (suffering as a mechanical response as in Descartes, plants cleraly suffering i.e. when they don't have enough water etc.).
Focusing on suffering for decades deprived the discussion of idea of animals as individuals with individual minds; taking back Porphyry's rational argument (by Peter Singer as said, but also Carl Safina) implies the issue of animal suffering, but extends the view also on other aspects of other animals' minds, individuality and obviously rights.
To a neoplatonist, everything emanates from, and thus is part of, god's mind (Nous). The farther removed something is from the Nous the worse it is at thinking, which is basically extrapolating a metaphysical worldview from the observation that rocks are dumber than animals and animals are dumber than humans.
@@SPscorevideos suffering isnt just withering away
Plants definitely respond to emotions.
I've been a vegetarian and then a vegan since 1995. It has nothing to do with religion or any gods..I'm also an atheist because morality and decency does not come from the worship of some imaginary deity. It's about not inflicting abuse and pain on animals and having sympathy, instead of the divisiveness and killing that comes with religion!
Amen !!!!!!!
You do realize even eating a plant, organisms have to die everyday for you to live, this is a delusional cope.
Youre killing a ton of animals eating your plants from those harvested fields friend. There's no moral high ground for any diet.
What lives must kill something else to survive, that is the truth of nature
Nice generalization there, "divisiveness and killing that comes with religion". A bad interpretation of abrahamic religions is what causes divisiveness and killing.
He awaits+ Come into the Light
I wonder from where this gentleman Mr.Flip H, collecting all this rare information about people & cultures 1000 of years back. There is no words to scribe an appreciation for it than just 🙏 in my Indian way.
Felt called to watch this and it was everything i could resonate with
Interesting topic.
Just remember, even the Buddha himself ate meat when it was offered to him. Shaolin warrior monks eat meat as well
Let me guess, you eat meat and want validation
The Buddha only ate what was offered to him. He did not SEEK to eat meat. One cannot compare a highly evolved being like the Buddha with Shaolin monks.
I do not need philosophy to protect animals - only Love!
But do you protect plants and vegetation?
well you do... philosophy is how you find out it's wrong.
@@gilgamesh7652 The plants rights activists have arrived, your sophistry is laughable, childish at best. We have to eat, if you really cared about plants, which have no neurons, or nociception, also the fact it takes up to 16KG of plants, for 1KG of flesh, you'd be vegan. Thanks for making the case for being 100% plant based 🤣
It's impossible for the modern comforts we have to exist without harming animals. You think cities would exist if we didn't kill massive amounts of animals and their habitats? You think humans could live without killing other predators? It doesn't mean we should create whole industries around raising animals for slaughter, but human beings have to kill some animals or risk death and severe discomfort. Also humans selectively choose to protect some animals at the expensive of others. Protecting the lives of dogs and cats means not protecting the lives of other small animals they eat. Protecting the lives of rabbits and chickens sometimes requires killing other predators. Also, in areas where predators have been removed, animals like deer, rats, and mice need their population to be thinned or they spread disease and their larger population faces persistent malnutrition and death by starvation.
@@JEP-Tech Veganism philosophical principle "Man should live without exploiting animals". You clearly don't comprehend the definition, yet apply your sophistry.
It's impossible to live with zero harm, but we can live without DELIBERATE exploitation and violence towards the other species.
As a Christian I find Porphyry very attractive. He's very much in tune with Christian ascetics and mystics. How would you define him in religious terms? What were his practices and beliefs? Did he pray or meditate?
Such a cool video , I practice this lifestyle and many think I’m weird for it. I always believed we must overcome resistance and practice moderation and discipline which first inspired by the works of the founding fathers. The founding fathers were influenced by classical thinkers , so cool ❤ I’m also from the levant , excellent video
why do they think you’re weird for it?
Animal sacrifice is lame