@@spicycaik359 No, Wonder of U is the head doctor. Tooru is just Tooru. To the naked, non-stand-user eye, Tooru and WoU are completely different entities
WoU was so powerful that it broke the forth wall and made calamity affect the panels, causing any backstory, presence, or side plot pertaining him was obliterated.
People just don't realise JoJolions structure, it is split into two parts. JoJo vs Jobin and Damo's group in the first part (Josuke finding out about the past). And the second part including Jobin and rock humans but Tooru is the main and final threat. In other words the part biggest and most predominant antagonist was Tooru since he was the main puppetmaster who later (Spoiler, Spoiler and Spoiler) Jobin. First half is clearly peak JoJo but sadly it became to long and the finale was lackluster. Still subjective my favorite part after the objectively better 7. Golden Wind also peak fr fr i luv bucciarati
@@AchillesofOblivion though when he died his stand still existed? As it is a literal embodiment of calamity all tooru did was summon it and basically just sit there undetected, then we’ll die while his stand was doin actual work if tooru had a different stand sure but here, no
When I read Jojolion, I just thought that tooru was a wierd villain, and moved on He isnt like Dio or Pucci or Diavolo that was in control of everything ish, and the main crew was mainly focused on defeating him Jojolion was kind of a free for all to obtain the Locacaca, and Tooru was just another guy who wanted it, who just happened to be the last villain with the best stand.
This is the most clear explanation and this also goes with the whole "flow" in part 8. It was just flow of there fate that Tooru was the final one to die, he could have appeared earlier, or later, it was just flow of calamity that made him appear at end
@Sir Blackwood what statements exactly? And are these statements pre toru introduction or post introduction. There's always one guy who writes 'Araki said this' and it either didn't happen, can't be verified or is a quote taken without context and spewed by fan boys as an undeniable fact
@Self-Proclaimed animator agreed I believe Kaato was the main intented villain with her manipulating Jobin to do her bidding and her being a rock human Why slam the breaks of the series to give us a rock human history lesson that ultimately plays no role in the story itself. Especially considering its contradictory to what's already been shown ( rock humans don't form connections, yet they have already been shown to do so) I'd imagine the point is that half breeds (the higashikata children) do feel emotion, and the rock humans we met before who showed emotion were too also half breed. So Kaato, being full rock human doesn't feel any emotion for her kids and just is using Jobins love for his son to ultimately betray him if he defeated Josuke and take the family farm. Instead we got Yasuhos ex boyfriend who did stuff for a reason and now he's dead It also plays into the themes of self identity, Josuke is literally 2 different people, Jobin could have been two different species, and the new rokakaka was a mix of two different plants. And considering part 7 had themes centered on fatherhood, part 8 was clearly planning themes around motherhood which ultimately are obviously dropped considering Kaato amounts to practically nothing other than a means to conclude a plot thread.
I feel like people aren't seeing the bigger picture with Tooru. If it wasn't for him, we would have never met Poor Tom, which 100% already puts him as a greatest villain in history of fiction.
The biggest problem with tooru is that we don’t get enough of him if we had more scenes of Tooru and flashed out his character more he could be one of the most coolest characters in Jojo. I really hope we get a flashback off him in JoJolands
@@thepumpkinking889 true, I think that might be what they add in the Anime honestly. But good point, having a few more scenes of a mysterious figure in the background and having some of the rock humans refer to their mysterious boss a bit more would make more sense.
The sad thing is that Tooru never got the same amount of screentime as other villains. Aside from being underdeveloped because of it but also he never got to grow on us.
I feel like people just kind of combine wou and tooru together when they consider him cool. The problem is WOU is the one of the coolest stands and tooru is just kind of meh, he’s just not exceptional enough to stand out from the other rock humans. Also the stuffed animals on his arms look stupid.
'There was a rock on top of another rock. What that rock witness is only memories. But what about your son, Kato Higashikata? He died without ever realized his dreams." Tooru lacks the presence of main villain, but the way he taunt kaato to attack him is pretty cool and memorable.
I think tooru was a good villain because of how weirdly unique he was. He was never meant for the spotlight, he was a guy who just did his own thing. Tooru didn’t have a path. He went with the flow. He never was good nor he was bad, he only did whatever it took for his goals to prevail. Tooru was the perfect example on why rock humans were a dangerous threat how easy it is for them to parasite their way into our society. Into our lives. I’d say tooru was a really creepy dude because he literally met his ex girlfriend when she was a kid and then proceeded to date her when she was in high-school all because he wanted to use her. Tooru and gappy are a good contrast. Gappy cares for people by who they are while tooru only cares for the memories that he has of those people. The relationships they both have with their mother contrasts. Tooru has no relationship with his mother and his last memory was what he remembered to be his mother (the wasps) and gappy would die for a mother he didn’t even have a single memory with.
@@assburgers123 what classifies a good villain? i think we've surpassed the good vs evil bit that jjba had going on in the first parts. the fact that tooru doesn't fit the cookie cutter version of what a 'good villain' should be is one of the reasons why he is a good villain. he is not precedented by the hatred of the human species as usually the other rock humans were. he merely lets himself be guided by the flow of logic and reason, and whoever decides to cross his path and mess with it, gets rocked lol
@@loveshot98 You p8 Fans always use "the flow" as an excuse to make him a "good villain" bro was just goofy imo like the video said he aint anything special a downgrade compared to kira yoshikage
@@assburgers123 he wasn't intended to be Kira 2.0, he's not supposed to be some major part dominating fleshed out threat, that's not what JoJolion is about, he serves his purpose and does some well as the comment above explains. Part 8 is an extremely unique part, it having a final villain that doesn't fit with what we've seen before works quite well. All in all JoJolion turned out amazingly overall, 2nd best part after SBR imo.
The problem with making Jobin the antagonist is that his goals don’t really oppose Josuke, yes Josuke wants the lokakaka for Holly but he wouldn’t just let Tsurugi die. I think Toru is fine as is but maybe introducing the head doctor earlier would’ve added to their presence
What is this consensus that Wonder of U is not Tooru??? Nothing to argue on him not being the best " villain " or the most bombastic and quirky one but this just seems like a lame reach to discredit him more than its needed to.
It's funny, when he was first introduced I was like "Please Araki, make him the main villian, Jobin is too lame, kill him or something" then by the end of the manga I was like "What, Tooru was actually the main villian? I think Jobin could have been a better main antagonist, this suck"
It’s because Joshu was the actual villain Edit: We all know it’s Joshu in Jojolands and he’s gearing up to sexually assault Dragona Edit 2: I just read chapter to and HOREE SHIIIIT IT’S ROHAN THAT’S EVEN BETTER THAN JOSHU
joshu commits a much worse crime for a fictional character than being evil. Joshu is annoying. Toorus crimes are fictional but my hatred of Joshu is very real
Part 8 could really have benefited with several more chapters. Introduce Tooru early on and have him do something useful for Yasuho. Have him pop up once or twice before the big reveal, treated as a minor side character that has fulfilled its role (like others jn Part 4). Then use the additional chapters to flesh out the rock humans relationships and characters. Their goals. Maybe have Yasuho briefly look up Guerilla, find out about the hospital, find the lack of photos of the head doctor peculiar but not noteworthy (and have her have a minor misfortune at that moment). To foreshadow WoU, have a new rock human who tries to double cross Tooru end up meeting a very improbable end while in sight of the gang. Have a chapter entirely from a rock human's perspective, about the Rokakaka fruit and what it meant to them. Have WoU die with Tooru. It would still be imperfect, but it would be better than what ended up happening.
I think having WoU stick around after Tooru dies might’ve been okay if he underwent a visual transformation to more clearly signify that he’s no longer Tooru’s stand, but rather the embodiment of calamity itself, donning a more overtly menacing appearance.
@@nechdaught3412 like maybe removing the "face" entirely? Iirc, WoU's design was inspired by the painting "The Son of Man" by Belgian surrealist painter René Margritte, aka the painting with the apple obscuring the man's face. So removing WoU's "face" would signify it's lack of "identity" after Tooru's death? That it is now "unbound"?
@@BL00DYMERCURY He was being pursued though, poor Tom was pursuing the Ambulance which Tooru was driving and the attack came from behind Josuke so wouldn’t make sense for it to be Wus particles which would’ve needed to exit the vehicle first.
@@BL00DYMERCURY He was racing to the vehicle, WOU has activated for having the thought of pursuit this is actively chasing a vehicle. Plus have you seen how Tom died? Wu doesn’t have the power for that without being noticed immediately by Josuke.
@@darkn2585 I mean, its not like Toru was talking through his stand the whole time, WOU is still a sentient stand and this type of stands resembles some aspects of the user's nature
That's just the problem with the writing, Toru and WoU are too detached the narrative level. Take King Crimson and Diavolo, fans never see them as separated.
Alot of HUGE issues I see people have with Toru is because they don't realize that Toru and the WoU are NOT SEPRATE BEINGS. WoU does not "have more personality than Toru", EVERYTHING wou says is just Toru talking through his stand, and this is made abundantly clear once Toru drops the act and WoU breaks character and starts talking in third person and referring to itself as "My stand" WoU is Torus excuse to play the character he belived he needed to be in order for society to respect him, it's not a total separate entity that Toru is partners with.
But WoU persists after toru dies. I think more than anything, WoU is just a physical manifestation of negative flow, and Toru simply had the ability to control it while he was around
@@nicklemay8056 let me rephrase, WOU did not have it's own personality, everything it says and does while Toru was alive was directly controlled by Toru. Once toru dies, WoU shouldn't even be considered "WoU" and moreso a visual representation of Calamity, since it nolonger uses the rules of WoU
8:37 I agree with this 110% Jobin was so well developed and was in his way to become one of the most sympathetic main villains in the series, sacrificing the people he loves around him to save his son's life, and his clash against Josuke would've been amazing since Josuke is also attempting to save someone who he so deeply cares for
if people thought Jobin was the main villain... you're stupid I'm sorry. His stand is nowhere near jojo main villain stand tier. So if you genuinely thought that. That's more on you being silly then the author imho.
I remember that, before Tooru was revealed, some people speculated that part 8 wasn't going to have a main villan at all, and that instead the part was going to end with a huge free for all between all the parties vying for the Rokakaka (Jobin and Kaato, the rock humans, Josuke and friends, etc. Even the idea that Ojiro and his girlfriend might play a role in this was tossed around once he returned, before he immediately died in the following chapter). And honestly, that could've been great. Or at the very least, it would've been a novel setup for the series. Also, on a completely unrelated note, I'm still suprised that Joshu using one of the fruits from the branch of the new rokakaka to heal Yasuho didn't lead to a scene where Josuke was forced to choose between using the remaining fruit to heal Tsurugi or Holly.
Thats literally what happened though? The end is a free for all to see who gets the rokakaka, Josuke wants It, tooru wants It, jobin wants It, ojiro wants It, and the family Discovers about It in the middle of the Arc. Its not because tooru killed a Lot of people that he was the only enemy, everyone was trying to get it.
My problem with Toru is that he didn't show up before or even be mentioned despite having history with the characters, just have him be a side character introduced earlier to have it be unexpected so that way it really just comes out of nowhere like it was before so that way it shows how well Tooru blended in, he blended in so well that we didn't even realize or even think he could be a villain since he was on the jojos side. Have him start turning (revealing) evil during the ozone baby arc so that way it's more set up
The only one he has had a history with is Yasuho So unless they mentioned him in 3rd person(which would take away from the mystery plot lines), Yasuho randomly just mentioning her ex wouldn't make sense
@@the2ndsanctum Yes, but even that brings up a critical issue in the remaining plot as now, Yasuho has a direct connection inside TG university Moreover, the fact that Toru is aware of Yasuho, it would mean that in every future event, Toru would be more likely to also know that Josuke is also present and is coming after the Locacaca Now, it seems like Toru wasn't really aware of the whole affair with the birth of Josuke since that was a different branch of the organization, but once in direct contact with Josuke, it would create an issue because Josuke knows about the Locacaca in this scenario It's not that it cannot work Rather, it'll take a complete restructuring of the part to happen
Tooru had so much potential, but it's all wasted. If there was simply a rock human boss mentioned and tooru showed up earlier or something, it definitely would have felt so much more earned making him the main villain. I usually don't believe in Araki forgot because I'm sure Araki thinks most of his plot points out beforehand, but this is definitely an exception considering this comes so out of left field and almost none of it makes sense. The last 20 chapters of Jojolion feel like it's just held together by duct tape and a piece of gum. I feel like Araki wanted me to be intrigued since we know so little about him, but I don't since we have no information that makes him intriguing. Really hope that the main villain of part 9 ain't like this. Great video. Uhh Join the discord to get your feet licked.
Even if the tooru had been introduced earlier no one would care about him since no thing that makes us draw attention to him since he has no characteristic other than being yasuho's ex-boyfriend and the fact that he killed the jobim was something that killed hype since jobim was one of the most important characters in history just to be dying for a piece of can it seems that it was something that the araki he saw from the story that didn't have a villain and put it up to people not to criticize, There's also the one where he has one of the powerful stand in jojos just for him to lose because gappy took power out of his ass.
11:28- a better twist would be if the Stand itself was the mastermind and it attaches to users such as Tooru like a parasite- it would preserve the Tooru twist but made it more unique.
Even tho I enjoyed how Tooru worked as the user of the Stand, the idea of a Stand whose ability implies a control over really vast concepts (something like the concept of misfortune, reality or being directly connected to how the magnetism fron the core of the earth functions.), having like more than one user or being capable of moving between different people, could be really really cool. Damn, just a stand that has two users or more would be cool in itself.
@@it6647 I think all three of them just have the same Stand, not the same Stand being shared with three users. Not the first time that we've seen it. Remember Star Platinum?
4:29- agreed. His Stand has such intimidation and charisma that Tooru seems lacking in contrast- the latter coming across as a perverted parasite who depended on Yasuho for getting to where he was- which gets much retroactively creepier when you know how potentially old he is.
I’m probably nowhere near the first person to comment this but it is worth noting that a lot of the examples of Kira being set up you’ve highlighted through the video were added in the part 4 anime adaptation. I would not be surprised if Tooru was given a similar treatment
I think its really funny that Josuke basically resolves the Higashikata situation by complete chance without knowing. The whole part is showing this poweder keg, slowly simmering to an explosive confrontation. But when it actually goes off Josuke is on the other side of town and doesnt even witness it. He defeats WoU like he would any other mook of the week and that happens to resolve the Higashikata curse. The dude probably forgot who Jobin even was at that point, it was totally irrelevant to him
And even funnier, he didn’t even know he was antagonizing Jobin. He had the beetle battle, then left, saved Jobin from Damo, left, and when Josuke finally became family, Jobin is gone.
I'll never understand why Araki wasted like 2 chapters focusing on Fumi and Lucy instead of giving a bit more time to focus on the main story that desperately needed it
Man, everything about Toru just felt like Araki speedrunning the ending of Part 8. Just shows up out of nowhere and starts nuking people. Doesn't help that everything wraps up way too fucking fast, killing like 3 characters for no fucking reason (seriously, all the other deaths that happen in the past parts felt tasteful and made sense, but here it's just that WoU shows up wherever he wants and starts blasting, killing Jobin and Rai, and then Kei for some reason? Like why her?) And then suddenly Josuke gets his deus ex machina power up for no reason, and then the part is over, like HUH???
@@AchillesofOblivion Crazy if true. Especially when you consider that both introduced and finished off a villain in roughly the same amount of time, and the one after 20+ years of experience came out half baked
@@sarafontanini7051 Hamon Beat actually explained most plot points in his "Debunking Araki Forgot" video about JoJolion. It's heavily implied that the Wall Eyes were a Devil's Palm, most likely created through Johnny's sacrifice. And it was both a combination of the New Rokakaka and the Wall Eyes power that Josefumi and Kira fused, otherwise they would have most likely just exchanged parts.
@@christheplayer99 Didn't he say at the start that he expected everything in jojolion to be explained, and now he justifies everything with vague implications and headcanons? That's HamonBeat's problem is he explains away every plot hole with un explained headcanon.
If I might offer some criticism, a mystery whose major twist can be figured out in advance isn't necessarily a bad thing. This is going to be a _very_ unusual (bizarre, if you will) comparison to make to Jojo of all things, but the works of HP Lovecraft are a great example of stories with twists that are arguably downright predictable, yet do a pretty good job at building tension towards their "reveals".
yeah a mystery you can't figure out or solve is a shtty mystery. even if it takes the actual characters too long too solve it, that;;s still better than a mystery with no answers, no clues, no hitn and jsut dumps everything on you at the last second with no build up.
The difference is that HP Lovecraft has that buildup of tension, and that's mainly what he's banking on. He's not selling the mystery, he's selling the buildup to the reveal of the mystery. With Tooru, it's different. There was absolutely no buildup, so it all depends on the mystery. That's where a mystery that can be easily figured out sucks.
I personally like how Tooru wasn't a presence. Dio, Kars, DIO, Kira, Diavolo, Pucci, Valentine were all a big presence and that's great but with Tooru being a mystery is great in a totally different way, unlike Kira who was a mystery to the characters and not the reader. Tooru is a mystery to literally everyone, makes it feel like it really can be anyone, any character can be this monster
Some things that also bug me about Tooru (or really just the end of the series): -We hear that not everyone understands Jobin’s stand and it is implied it has some crazy secret ability that makes us think main antagonist stand vibes, but his stand’s secret power is really just knock off killer Queen and we hardly see it used to it’s fullest. -I think Tooru actually has some great speeches and moments that the video doesn’t pick up on. Like his anxiety and fear of catastrophe. This partially comes from the Tooru defenders, but I do really like that aspect of his character. He had a great idea stolen from him before, his life is extremely precarious as he is a rock human blending into human society when eventually the doctor and him not aging are going to raise questions and ruin everything he has built. His stand is almost like the reverse of this. The anxiety he feels about his place in the world is manifested into actual catastrophe whenever someone tries to pursue him. The problem is, a lot of this IS just from my personal readings and others. While I think that was the intention behind his character, which is interesting, most of his dialogue and later actions don’t refer to or build on these tensions.
Considering the amount of additional exposition and especially the Radio Gaga anecdote at the end of Jojolion, I wouldn't be surprised if Part 8 is the first part not meant to be an isolated story. It's clear that Araki was thinking about Part 9 before finishing Jojolion (by his own admission), so I wouldn't be surprised if we see more development of Tooru in Jojolands. If that is the case though, it does suck that Part 8, as an isolated narratives, has ended up suffering as a result
@@0DemonKiller0 cuz he is not a super edgy badass ? cuz he is not a super evil mastermind with over the top goals ? You can like him for many reasons, and him just being casual guy is one of those reasons, it's not that hard to understand
@@Starkor990 So you're saying they (maybe you included), like a character with no substance as the final antagonist of the entire story arc? As in to say, you enjoy a bland story which the climax feels the exact same as the rest of the story. I can't fault you if you really think that way, but man you lot sure have shit tastes
I think Tooru being written into Jojolion was like a jigsaw puzzle you started, but you forgot to finish. There was potential, and honestly could have been one of the best villains. The Rock Humans might as well have just been the "main villain" as a whole.
I'm pretty sure Rock Humans are already supposed to be parallels to the Pillar Men, only problem is barely any of them have the same presence the Pillar Men had
The problem with Tooru is if he wan in any other manga he would be a solid villian. I just don't think he stacks up to other villians in jojos. Probably only Kars but everyone else honestly outshines him.
The only thing I disagree with you on is if Toru was a good main villain it would make this a good part. Jojolion is by far and away the worst jojo part there ever was. Characters that go nowhere Characters with no discernable motives Dropped plot points Dropped mysteries Unsatisfactory answers to mysteries Incoherent plot Plot holes Stupid dialogue I'm convinced Araki either A. Ran out of ideas Or B. Had his intentions with the story guessed in advance and tried to change it unsuccessfully
Araki should have given Tooru a stalker personality having him introduced earlier then reappearing around Yasuho or the rokakaka sometimes the characters would notice and be like "hey what are you doing here" or sometimes we would notice him in the background. Imagine a panel earlier in the series were Josuke just finished a big fight and for some random reason(idk maybe he wants to ask him a question regarding Holy's health) he wants to pursue the head doctor and yasuho addresses a knife in his leg and Josuke is like "I swear that wasn't there before" and we notice Tooru leaving the scene in the background
I feel that JoJolion and Tooru will be much more appreciated when they get adopted into an anime, much like Parts 5 and 6. Other than that, just curious, what’s that song that plays 8 seconds in?
they could probably put Tooru in the background in some scenes to give him some actual presence like they did with Kira in part 4, though this probably wont fix Tooru's problems as a whole.
As Tooru is the reason the Rokakaka Fruit is being harvested, alluding to the group behind the fruit smuggling group and then noting the leader watches them carefully could function as a seamless way to obviously hint at Tooru in a sensible way, like “the leader wants his profits” stuff?
@@unoriginalname9556i think itd go a long way tbf. Literally one 10 second scene of him bumping into josuke and saying "hey i saw u hanging out with yasuho" or something then leaving would make the ending "twist" much more of a twist. People will go like "oh hey its that weird looking guy from earlier in the part, thats a neat callback" when they see him as an assistant and then the reveal would at least have some sort of impact or shock value
The reason I love Chewiedog so much is that he could make a video where I disagree with every single point and yet I’m dying of laughter every second of it
The one thing that kills me about Tooru that I never seen anyone mention is why did he do all this. Araki goes out of his way to clarify that the Lokakaka isn't illegal at all, if he just wanted money to give Rock Humans more power why didn't he, just like, file a patent for the medicine. And he goes public with it before it's released and names it after the fruit who he also sells to celebrities so I don't buy secrecy as his goal. Even if he thought he could get away with it doing clinical trials on numerous volunteers would be easier than kidnapping one woman to test all the medicine on. Everyone who tries to stop him does so because they want the Lokakaka to heal someone, he wants to make and sell medicine. These goals align with each other. I genuinely do not understand why Tooru went out of his way to be evil and make things harder for himself even withstanding opposition. He murders people over a drug he already wants to go public with that's totally legal and made of a fruit quite literally grows on trees in DAYS. He could accomplish everything exactly the same with a patent and clinical trials which he'd probably need to get anyways to actually be able to sell the medicine.
Honestly maybe it's because I'm older and maybe have a different perspective but looking back in hindsight you do see the presence of him there. You just don't realize it until the end that's the problem. But everything that's happening is because of him it's just not said directly. It's implied and subtle and that's why a lot of people think he has no presence. As far as I concerned the 2nd that they mentioned the hospital that's when his presence and the main villain was revealed.... But I did feel vindicated with big mama came out .... And just space truckd him. Mmhmm kaato
Imagine if Tooru interacted with the rest of the “Rock Human” villains. For example if we got to see Tooru interact with people like Tamaki Damo and Poor Tom in the shadows. That could’ve added more to his sinister villainous side.
I remember thinking as I read JoJolion that this would be a really interesting plot development if I actually cared about this villain. He had all the makings of what I considered a good villain and then just fell short.
if I ever got to write a JoJo's villian, it'd be a big twist villian, like jobro turned joefoe, but there'd be subtle hints, like maybe they have a stand that can heal any wound, but sometimes they choose not to heal our main character in some situations, or their stand allows them to see everything within a 100meter radius, and they don't warn the mc of a villian 50 or so meters head
TBT I don't think Tooru is a poorly re-imagined Kira, he's a poorly re-imagined Kars and Rock humans are poorly re-imagined Pillar men. What makes Kars so interesting is that he wanted to free his people from the their weakness to the sun and having to live underground but because they attacked them because the price of his new found abilities was having to consume much, much more lifeforce he wiped them out to just his 3 companions which only made him that more obsessed with his goal because he had to prove himself right to justify his genocidal actions. Ultimately his pursuit of becoming the ultimate being costs him his remaining 3 companions he sacrificed his entire race on the altar of his ambitions but he succeeds only for fate to immediately prove how hollow and meaningless his goal was all along because he does become the Ultimate being but winds up all alone drifting in the void of space with nothing to look forward to but eternity by himself so eventually he the greatest intellect the world had ever know just stops thinking. There's an ironic tragedy there for Kars that just isn't there for Tooru, sure Tooru was trying to advance the cause of his people like Kars but because of the very nature of himself and his people all that was just a means to their individual/mutual ends/interests and no further there was no real greater motivation there but self-interest there was no tragedy or pathos in Tooru's defeat and ultimate failure just further affirmation of why the individualistic nature of rock humans has kept at the margins and in the shadow of humanity as their collective efforts motivated by mere mutual interest failed to overcome the will, and self-sacrificing love and determination of just 1 human family.
Tooru was technically a looming presence as the unknown head of the rokakaka dealing team. We spent most of the part trying to find who was behind it all. And when Wonder of U did appear it created as much tension as scenes with King Crimson imo. Even before we saw him face to face he was always watching. We saw him kill a kid at tsuru's school, staring outside the higashikata house window. We saw the old man always half out of frame. Just far enough to make it uncomfrotable. He was a force that slowly approached as Gappy found out more about his organization. I do think the fact that he looks and acts like a teen made his true identity less frightening, but he still manipulated Yasuho's life and is an absolute menace for taunting on her with his i-pod
I actually really like Tooru, but yeah the whole part was building up for Joubin to be the final boss. Meanwhile his death was such a letdown I didn't even realize he was permanently dead until the part ENDED. I thought it was gonna be like Norisuke
I think the only real reason why people like him is his Stand. His stand literally can destroy if you ever try to acknowledge or approach him. Wonder of u is definitely the perfect counter to something like Love train, or maiden heaven. As strong as those stands are, if they even attempt to approach or acknowledge wonder of u they’ll be in a world of hurt.
I thought Love Train redirected misfortune to others? (Haven't read or watched any of the JoJo mangas/animes, I'm going off of videos and Roblox games here)
@@watermelongaming3698pretty much, love train is fortune, wonder of u is calamity, good luck and bad luck Them fighting is in essence a stalemate, if misfortune comes to funny because of tooru, then it's just deflected. But love train has a set range and if funny goes outside that range he's dead, so he won't, ever Neither can kill each other, so their fight is just a stalemate
I just realized that Jodio was diagnosed with *Antisocial* Personality disorder, and his dad is nowhere to be found. Considering that the Joestar is his mom I think that Jodio’s dad could be a rock human. Early as fuck predict but hey not impossible
as a Tooru lover I think what we actually like about him is what he could've been, not what he is. If he was introduced way earlier, or not even introduced but just teased, and was set up as this looming shadow over everything in the series than he would be an amazing and menacing villain. The way he is now it feels like Araki just wanted to wrap up Jojolion soon and realized it needs a main villain, so he popped Tooru into the story and since there was little time to give him good developement as a character, he instead gave him one of imo the best stands in the series, and put most focus into that instead since this was easier to do. Sucks cuz with proper care he really could've been the best Jojo villain like actually.
I just finished Jojolion, and honestly Tooru had soooo much potential. He could have popped up a few times or been hinted on throughout the part instead of just spawning in in like the last 20 chapters. If that happened, he would have felt like the main villain rather than the last villain
He's NOT the main villan, araki has pretty clearly stated so when he comments on Toru in the JoJo magazine, Toru is a stand in for greater, intangible forces of the world. Toru himself, the individual, is not important. Torus importance is what he thematically represents for the story of JoJolion. Hes obviously going to be a disappointing main villan, but the community is the only ones trying to make him fit the "Main villan" archetype
@@x-ler2066 Jojolion doesn't have a main villan, or atleast, it doesn't have a Person as its main villan. Jojolions "main villan" would be the force of calamity. But obviously you can't just punch a universal force, so Araki made Toru a kind of "Mascot" or stand in to allow Jouske to metaphorically "defeat" this force.
@@ratedr7845 The final act of the part is breaking the curse. Jojolion is a story about breaking a curse. Compare this any other part, who's goals were usually just beating the villian to save something: From part 3's "Defeat dio to save holly", to part 4's "Defeat kira to restore peace to morioh", to part 5's "Defeat the boss to take down Passione", to part 6's "Defeat pucci to save jotaro/the entire world" to part 7's "Defeat valentine to save lucy/the holy corpse". Tooru doesn't fit that description, not directly anyway, the main goal behind every action in jojolion was "gain the Rokakaka to secure my own goal", and alot of different parties had a different goal. Josuke and Yashuo wanted to save holy, Jobin and the higashikata's wanted to cure the family curse, The rock humans wanted to gain profit and power. You can consider the rock humans the "main enemy" because they aren't main characters, but Jobin was as much of an antagonistic force againsed to Josuke. Thats why there isn't a traditional main villain here.
I’ll say tooru was kind of like the piller men, the three of them were practically the main antagonist (the whole rokakaka organization) but Kars was just the final villian. (Tooru)
Kars is way cooler ngl. He’s got personality, even if some think a hateable one, an awesome backstory that connects to all of Jojo and a unique set of powers which interweave with the plot nicely.
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. Kars was *the* reason behind all of Jojo. He was always the leader of the three. Even in the aztec carvings he was always presented at the top. Even when Wham first awakens, he introduces the other two as his masters. And when you see Eisidisi is the first Joseph fights, it ends up being obvious Kars will be the final villain and that he will success on his plan. You can definetly argue Kars is A LOT more generic, but he has a lot more presence and buildup than Tooru.
I know for a fact I’m late to this comment section but as a Wou fan myself I do not like Tooru and I feel the reason people defend him so much is because Wou had such a presence and was such a threat it made whoever this stand user was feel so threatening and we’re just using the logic of oh if Wou is cool and threatening Tooru is cool and threatening.
@@SliceOfShinGoji How? Toru controls the stand (changing the order of calamity for example) and WOU is a reflection of him. You don’t think Whitesnake or KC are their own entities since they are able to talk, do you?
@ you have a good point ngl but I just feel like araki did a better job with both of those different villains than with Toru he made Pucci and Diavolo menacing in their own right and when Toru was revealed as the villain I just didn’t care tbh he didn’t have enough of a presence in the part fr. I’m not on his level of Toru hate tho I do like Toru I just feel like he’s a weak link in the chain of jojo villains
@@goingcrazygoingstupid1308 A writer can make anything happen in his story, but he still has to convince the readers what happened made sense else they won't buy it. WoU and Toru are one yes, but they are separated on the narrative level. The user and the stand are at two different locations at the same time, engaging in two different events loosely related to each other, has two different personalities, etc... You brought up King Crimson and Whitesnake, then I ask you: Why was people be able to assign the stands with the villains in older parts, but unable to with Toru specifically?
The Wonder Of U is an absolutely incredible stand, I love the design and I love the presence… But it should have been saved for part 9’s villain, even if that villain wasn’t Tooru. Speed King vs Soft and Wet would have been too good to pass up.
Nah man. Toru was perfect. You guys dont get the whole picture because your nerdy brains is so fixated on the face of the story that you never really get deep into it. Read Shakespeare or the epic or something. That should open your eyes.
@@vanterlexx1880His name was spelled as "Toru" on the card pack that was on sale during the jojo exhibition kanazawa event Either is correct in english i guess.
It actually depends on how you look at it as part of the theme of life in part 8. What I mean why do we live. Rock humans represent this by being parasitoids turned full parasites, they steal identity and leech on any way they can while focusing on survival. Survival is so easy in modern world, yet they need to do constantly better. Some of them tried to mimic humans and form bonds, but all of them were pale imitations that lacked the truly important things bonds have. Josuke struggles with survival a little, but he is more interested in finding his life's meaning and purpose and is searching for his memories for that. Tooru on other hand has gotten into such a cozy position where surviving is easy, but he has nothing else than that. It is why he is searching purpose through success, believing that after death only dreams and memories remain. But success is not his dream, he pursues it because he wants to have a dream to give his life purpose instead of it being blind survival. It is also why he wants to get Yasuho back to give her another thing to work towards. In the end only thing he knew how to do was survive. First sign was how he ate a hornets nest, despite having fond memories of being taken care hornet hive ( which is why his last memory was off a hornet ). He did not need to eat them, he had even just eaten a lunch. It was too easy and convenient nutrition. Second sign was how willing he was to use Yasuho to save himself at her cost, and spend his last minutes begging for her to save him. He talked a big game of being a giant boulder on top of a hill, yet when he fell he was just a small pebble. Other point about Tooru specifically is that his ability can only bring misery, since it harnesses calamity and enhances it just to survive. Like a parasite he will bring harm to anything close to him, just continue his meaningless survival
yeah i got no idea what araki was doing in the end of Jojolion. i thought he was just tanking the series because he was tired of it like horikoshi, so the fact that there even is a part 9 is surprising me
If part 9 is going to be as crazy as i hope it is, toruu will get some exposition and the rokakaka trade expanded on. Jodio gains status in the criminal world as the part progresses similar to p5. This means a run in with the rock humans, josuke, and part 8 lore in general could happen due to their criminal exterprise nature, proximity to Hawaii (its also suggested that part 9 will feature sailing and traveling to islands).
I’d say Tooru is similar to Diavolo in the sense that what he represents extends far beyond his direct actions in the story, and overall, he enhances the story by being who he is.
To me I feel like Toru was meant to be a good villain who was just executed poorly. Whats that? You have a guy with an extremely overpowered stand ability that has been stalking the main love intrest for her entire life and is the head of the group who are producing the rocacaca in the hospital... and on top of that this guy, due to his upbringing of overcoming a society of wasps, desires to overcome the very society that he is a minority in now... that sound like a fantastic villain! Oh wait... literally none of that information is told or shown to us, and the little information that is shown is barely even covered and left entirely vague... oh nevermind guess he sucks now... We were on the verge of greatness... we were this close
i dont think toru is bad... just bad in comparison as i say it, jojolion has some of the best villainy, but not the best singular "villain" my hope is that they add like, a lot of new early scenes for toru in the anime. like mentions, background appearances, even interactions similar to the yoshikage kira car scene, like 20 episodes before what will be the longest arc in jojo anime history because seriously the wonder of u arc is bigger than all of part 1 (and i love it for it, tbh)
The only way Tooru could’ve been redeemed as a worthwhile villain is if it were revealed that he was Joshu’s barber
Honestly that would the the biggest reveal in Jojo
more evil than dio, diavolo, and kira combined
bees
Nah he has to use calamity to make that haircut
to be honest that could have been
The one thing Tooru managed to achieve that no other Jojo villain did was having a stand that was more interesting than he was.
They should’ve made the head doctor the main villain or the stand user of WoU
@@TigerShork1 but tooru is the head doctor
True
Nah
@@spicycaik359 No, Wonder of U is the head doctor. Tooru is just Tooru. To the naked, non-stand-user eye, Tooru and WoU are completely different entities
“Having one of the strongest stand in all jojo”
“Didn’t know how to use it properly “
Tooru is actually Okuyasu in this universe
okayasu aint a p3do tho
@@doflamingo57 He prefers em older, not younger
@@dragonheart1236 reverse okuyasu
It's Okuyasu mixed with Kars, because he Is a Rock Human
@@doflamingo57 literally the opposite bro's a milf hunter
WoU was so powerful that it broke the forth wall and made calamity affect the panels, causing any backstory, presence, or side plot pertaining him was obliterated.
Diavolo in SHAMBLES
@@mihneaiordan1813LMAO
These two comments are the funniest shit I've ever heard from JoJo fans 😭
@@mihneaiordan1813IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN -ME- THE BOSS!!!!
That is actually... PEAK
Jobin acted like an actual main antagonist more than tooru did in the first place
Part 8 doesn’t really have a main antagonist imo but jobin is the best villain
People just don't realise JoJolions structure, it is split into two parts. JoJo vs Jobin and Damo's group in the first part (Josuke finding out about the past). And the second part including Jobin and rock humans but Tooru is the main and final threat. In other words the part biggest and most predominant antagonist was Tooru since he was the main puppetmaster who later (Spoiler, Spoiler and Spoiler) Jobin.
First half is clearly peak JoJo but sadly it became to long and the finale was lackluster. Still subjective my favorite part after the objectively better 7.
Golden Wind also peak fr fr i luv bucciarati
@@aidanh7527 Wonder of U is way more of a main antagonist than his user
joshu is a better antagonist 💀
Golden win is on of the worst parts. Giorno is the character equivalent to an unsalted saltine@@Spikey-Pete
bro so lame his stand is the playable one in the jojo game😭😭😭
ASBR*
@@Jacksontrooper777 no shit
@@yunidoki your profile picture suits what you just said you seem mad and frustrated
@@Jacksontrooper777 art is subjective
Bro his stand is more of a villain then him 💀
But I still have more Drip than Gappy though!
@@tooru-7296 oh lord he mad!!
@@tooru-7296 HOOOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
He is his stand, stop viewing them as different characters
@@AchillesofOblivion though when he died his stand still existed? As it is a literal embodiment of calamity all tooru did was summon it and basically just sit there undetected, then we’ll die while his stand was doin actual work if tooru had a different stand sure but here, no
When I read Jojolion, I just thought that tooru was a wierd villain, and moved on
He isnt like Dio or Pucci or Diavolo that was in control of everything ish, and the main crew was mainly focused on defeating him
Jojolion was kind of a free for all to obtain the Locacaca, and Tooru was just another guy who wanted it, who just happened to be the last villain with the best stand.
or maybe araki invented him and made thoes final chapters to end JoJOlion coz i dont think he was ever meant to be the final villian
@@self-proclaimedanimator toru was always intended, arakis various statements about part 8 have made that clear.
This is the most clear explanation and this also goes with the whole "flow" in part 8. It was just flow of there fate that Tooru was the final one to die, he could have appeared earlier, or later, it was just flow of calamity that made him appear at end
@Sir Blackwood what statements exactly? And are these statements pre toru introduction or post introduction.
There's always one guy who writes 'Araki said this' and it either didn't happen, can't be verified or is a quote taken without context and spewed by fan boys as an undeniable fact
@Self-Proclaimed animator agreed
I believe Kaato was the main intented villain with her manipulating Jobin to do her bidding and her being a rock human
Why slam the breaks of the series to give us a rock human history lesson that ultimately plays no role in the story itself. Especially considering its contradictory to what's already been shown ( rock humans don't form connections, yet they have already been shown to do so)
I'd imagine the point is that half breeds (the higashikata children) do feel emotion, and the rock humans we met before who showed emotion were too also half breed.
So Kaato, being full rock human doesn't feel any emotion for her kids and just is using Jobins love for his son to ultimately betray him if he defeated Josuke and take the family farm.
Instead we got Yasuhos ex boyfriend who did stuff for a reason and now he's dead
It also plays into the themes of self identity, Josuke is literally 2 different people, Jobin could have been two different species, and the new rokakaka was a mix of two different plants.
And considering part 7 had themes centered on fatherhood, part 8 was clearly planning themes around motherhood which ultimately are obviously dropped considering Kaato amounts to practically nothing other than a means to conclude a plot thread.
I feel like people aren't seeing the bigger picture with Tooru. If it wasn't for him, we would have never met Poor Tom, which 100% already puts him as a greatest villain in history of fiction.
you joking?
@@assburgers123 are you??
@@assburgers123 it's Poor Tom. I don't joke when it comes to Poor Tom.
This comment truly opened my eyes
@@antoniolasagne facts
The biggest problem with tooru is that we don’t get enough of him if we had more scenes of Tooru and flashed out his character more he could be one of the most coolest characters in Jojo. I really hope we get a flashback off him in JoJolands
True, but if we had him as a villain from the early beginning or middle like previous parts things wouldn't work out thanks to WOU
@Big Man we can see and be introduced to him before the protagonists start pursuing him (like with Kira)
@@thepumpkinking889 true, I think that might be what they add in the Anime honestly. But good point, having a few more scenes of a mysterious figure in the background and having some of the rock humans refer to their mysterious boss a bit more would make more sense.
Absolutely. If he was more involved rather than just his stand and we get to know him more, he’d be such a better villain. Still love him tho 🤭
Why do you guys think he wasn't flushed out further?
The sad thing is that Tooru never got the same amount of screentime as other villains. Aside from being underdeveloped because of it but also he never got to grow on us.
What screen ?
Even Diavolo, aka the guy that didn't want anyone to find out about him, had more screentime and personality than Tooru.
@@theadventurer685 Uhh page time? 🤷🏾♂️
His Stand makes fleshing out his character very difficult. There's no real discussion to be had with him.
Wonder of U is hella lot more interesting than him
"I think if Tooru was a better villain, part 8 would be my favorite" is a take I hadn't considered and now fully agree with
I feel like people just kind of combine wou and tooru together when they consider him cool. The problem is WOU is the one of the coolest stands and tooru is just kind of meh, he’s just not exceptional enough to stand out from the other rock humans. Also the stuffed animals on his arms look stupid.
I hated WOU, for me Jojolion completely shit the bed worse than Part 6
'There was a rock on top of another rock. What that rock witness is only memories. But what about your son, Kato Higashikata? He died without ever realized his dreams."
Tooru lacks the presence of main villain, but the way he taunt kaato to attack him is pretty cool and memorable.
I think tooru was a good villain because of how weirdly unique he was. He was never meant for the spotlight, he was a guy who just did his own thing. Tooru didn’t have a path. He went with the flow. He never was good nor he was bad, he only did whatever it took for his goals to prevail.
Tooru was the perfect example on why rock humans were a dangerous threat how easy it is for them to parasite their way into our society. Into our lives. I’d say tooru was a really creepy dude because he literally met his ex girlfriend when she was a kid and then proceeded to date her when she was in high-school all because he wanted to use her.
Tooru and gappy are a good contrast. Gappy cares for people by who they are while tooru only cares for the memories that he has of those people. The relationships they both have with their mother contrasts. Tooru has no relationship with his mother and his last memory was what he remembered to be his mother (the wasps) and gappy would die for a mother he didn’t even have a single memory with.
Thank you, I feel like there’s was a lot of hate for him
How does being unique make you a good villain?
@@assburgers123 what classifies a good villain? i think we've surpassed the good vs evil bit that jjba had going on in the first parts. the fact that tooru doesn't fit the cookie cutter version of what a 'good villain' should be is one of the reasons why he is a good villain. he is not precedented by the hatred of the human species as usually the other rock humans were. he merely lets himself be guided by the flow of logic and reason, and whoever decides to cross his path and mess with it, gets rocked lol
@@loveshot98 You p8 Fans always use "the flow" as an excuse to make him a "good villain" bro was just goofy imo like the video said he aint anything special a downgrade compared to kira yoshikage
@@assburgers123 he wasn't intended to be Kira 2.0, he's not supposed to be some major part dominating fleshed out threat, that's not what JoJolion is about, he serves his purpose and does some well as the comment above explains. Part 8 is an extremely unique part, it having a final villain that doesn't fit with what we've seen before works quite well. All in all JoJolion turned out amazingly overall, 2nd best part after SBR imo.
The problem with making Jobin the antagonist is that his goals don’t really oppose Josuke, yes Josuke wants the lokakaka for Holly but he wouldn’t just let Tsurugi die.
I think Toru is fine as is but maybe introducing the head doctor earlier would’ve added to their presence
Wonder of U is more memorable than Tooru
☠️
Why are you treating wou as seperate from tooru? If wou is good then it'd mean tooru was good
This is the same braindead logic of "King crimson is more memorable than Diavolo" my brother in christ they are one and the same.
What is this consensus that Wonder of U is not Tooru??? Nothing to argue on him not being the best " villain " or the most bombastic and quirky one but this just seems like a lame reach to discredit him more than its needed to.
@@edenrav They literally aren't
It's funny, when he was first introduced I was like "Please Araki, make him the main villian, Jobin is too lame, kill him or something" then by the end of the manga I was like "What, Tooru was actually the main villian? I think Jobin could have been a better main antagonist, this suck"
It’s because Joshu was the actual villain
Edit: We all know it’s Joshu in Jojolands and he’s gearing up to sexually assault Dragona
Edit 2: I just read chapter to and HOREE SHIIIIT IT’S ROHAN THAT’S EVEN BETTER THAN JOSHU
This man spits facts
💀
joshu commits a much worse crime for a fictional character than being evil. Joshu is annoying. Toorus crimes are fictional but my hatred of Joshu is very real
@@statboosts279 real
Dragona grabs the little stub of an arm Joshu has and stretches it to a full length arm.
I remember finishing part 8 and not even realizing it was the end. Every other part felt so conclusive.
I know. Part 8 ended by just killing everyone off. Lots of plot threads that went nowhere.
Omg I literally felt this too
Yeah.
So like part 5?
@@ub3rfr3nzy94 what ?
Part 8 could really have benefited with several more chapters. Introduce Tooru early on and have him do something useful for Yasuho. Have him pop up once or twice before the big reveal, treated as a minor side character that has fulfilled its role (like others jn Part 4).
Then use the additional chapters to flesh out the rock humans relationships and characters. Their goals. Maybe have Yasuho briefly look up Guerilla, find out about the hospital, find the lack of photos of the head doctor peculiar but not noteworthy (and have her have a minor misfortune at that moment).
To foreshadow WoU, have a new rock human who tries to double cross Tooru end up meeting a very improbable end while in sight of the gang.
Have a chapter entirely from a rock human's perspective, about the Rokakaka fruit and what it meant to them.
Have WoU die with Tooru.
It would still be imperfect, but it would be better than what ended up happening.
I think having WoU stick around after Tooru dies might’ve been okay if he underwent a visual transformation to more clearly signify that he’s no longer Tooru’s stand, but rather the embodiment of calamity itself, donning a more overtly menacing appearance.
@@nechdaught3412 like maybe removing the "face" entirely? Iirc, WoU's design was inspired by the painting "The Son of Man" by Belgian surrealist painter René Margritte, aka the painting with the apple obscuring the man's face. So removing WoU's "face" would signify it's lack of "identity" after Tooru's death? That it is now "unbound"?
@@skelebrowhovian6817 hell yeah, that could work
Quick correction, Toru and WOUs abilities were both first seen in Chapter 76 where Toru uses WOU to snipe Poor Tom from inside the Ambulance.
That is false. That was Doctor WU's particle. His stand isnt capable of causing calamity unless he or his stand is being pursued.
@@BL00DYMERCURY He was being pursued though, poor Tom was pursuing the Ambulance which Tooru was driving and the attack came from behind Josuke so wouldn’t make sense for it to be Wus particles which would’ve needed to exit the vehicle first.
@@BL00DYMERCURY dr WU is incapable of moving his particles, its fundamentally impossible for Dr Wu to have been the one to kill Poor Tom
@@stahpg5430 Bro was not pursuing the ambulance
@@BL00DYMERCURY He was racing to the vehicle, WOU has activated for having the thought of pursuit this is actively chasing a vehicle.
Plus have you seen how Tom died? Wu doesn’t have the power for that without being noticed immediately by Josuke.
Bruh, why do people still consider Toru and WOU as different entites? The man is just speaking through his stand
Damn bro I guess Notorious B.I.G User was making sounds through his stand after he died
@@darkn2585 I mean, its not like Toru was talking through his stand the whole time, WOU is still a sentient stand and this type of stands resembles some aspects of the user's nature
Hes like the requiem stands being therefore he has the most personality in the stand then any other stand in jojo
That's just the problem with the writing, Toru and WoU are too detached the narrative level. Take King Crimson and Diavolo, fans never see them as separated.
Alot of HUGE issues I see people have with Toru is because they don't realize that Toru and the WoU are NOT SEPRATE BEINGS.
WoU does not "have more personality than Toru", EVERYTHING wou says is just Toru talking through his stand, and this is made abundantly clear once Toru drops the act and WoU breaks character and starts talking in third person and referring to itself as "My stand"
WoU is Torus excuse to play the character he belived he needed to be in order for society to respect him, it's not a total separate entity that Toru is partners with.
But WoU persists after toru dies. I think more than anything, WoU is just a physical manifestation of negative flow, and Toru simply had the ability to control it while he was around
@@nicklemay8056 Its both calamity manifested and a reflection of Torus subconcious those two things arent necessarily contradictory.
@@nicklemay8056 Notorious B.I.G. stuck around after Carne died
@@nicklemay8056 let me rephrase, WOU did not have it's own personality, everything it says and does while Toru was alive was directly controlled by Toru.
Once toru dies, WoU shouldn't even be considered "WoU" and moreso a visual representation of Calamity, since it nolonger uses the rules of WoU
@@Gloom_Shroom_Gaming Carne's stand didn't even manifest until after he died, that was the whole gimmick
8:37
I agree with this 110% Jobin was so well developed and was in his way to become one of the most sympathetic main villains in the series, sacrificing the people he loves around him to save his son's life, and his clash against Josuke would've been amazing since Josuke is also attempting to save someone who he so deeply cares for
if people thought Jobin was the main villain... you're stupid I'm sorry. His stand is nowhere near jojo main villain stand tier. So if you genuinely thought that. That's more on you being silly then the author imho.
I remember that, before Tooru was revealed, some people speculated that part 8 wasn't going to have a main villan at all, and that instead the part was going to end with a huge free for all between all the parties vying for the Rokakaka (Jobin and Kaato, the rock humans, Josuke and friends, etc. Even the idea that Ojiro and his girlfriend might play a role in this was tossed around once he returned, before he immediately died in the following chapter). And honestly, that could've been great. Or at the very least, it would've been a novel setup for the series.
Also, on a completely unrelated note, I'm still suprised that Joshu using one of the fruits from the branch of the new rokakaka to heal Yasuho didn't lead to a scene where Josuke was forced to choose between using the remaining fruit to heal Tsurugi or Holly.
worst of all is that Joshu could have just used Nut King Call to reattach Yasuho's arm
The free for all ending theory was interesting but then Araki just decided to kill off almost everybody and set up Tooru as "the main bad guy"
Thats literally what happened though? The end is a free for all to see who gets the rokakaka, Josuke wants It, tooru wants It, jobin wants It, ojiro wants It, and the family Discovers about It in the middle of the Arc.
Its not because tooru killed a Lot of people that he was the only enemy, everyone was trying to get it.
Tooru Stans: The Flooow Maan, The Flow
Dragona Stans: The flow of my nuts hitting your forehead.
My problem with Toru is that he didn't show up before or even be mentioned despite having history with the characters, just have him be a side character introduced earlier to have it be unexpected so that way it really just comes out of nowhere like it was before so that way it shows how well Tooru blended in, he blended in so well that we didn't even realize or even think he could be a villain since he was on the jojos side. Have him start turning (revealing) evil during the ozone baby arc so that way it's more set up
The only one he has had a history with is Yasuho
So unless they mentioned him in 3rd person(which would take away from the mystery plot lines), Yasuho randomly just mentioning her ex wouldn't make sense
@@it664713:02
@@the2ndsanctum Yes, but even that brings up a critical issue in the remaining plot as now, Yasuho has a direct connection inside TG university
Moreover, the fact that Toru is aware of Yasuho, it would mean that in every future event, Toru would be more likely to also know that Josuke is also present and is coming after the Locacaca
Now, it seems like Toru wasn't really aware of the whole affair with the birth of Josuke since that was a different branch of the organization, but once in direct contact with Josuke, it would create an issue because Josuke knows about the Locacaca in this scenario
It's not that it cannot work
Rather, it'll take a complete restructuring of the part to happen
Tooru had so much potential, but it's all wasted. If there was simply a rock human boss mentioned and tooru showed up earlier or something, it definitely would have felt so much more earned making him the main villain. I usually don't believe in Araki forgot because I'm sure Araki thinks most of his plot points out beforehand, but this is definitely an exception considering this comes so out of left field and almost none of it makes sense. The last 20 chapters of Jojolion feel like it's just held together by duct tape and a piece of gum. I feel like Araki wanted me to be intrigued since we know so little about him, but I don't since we have no information that makes him intriguing. Really hope that the main villain of part 9 ain't like this. Great video. Uhh Join the discord to get your feet licked.
JOSHU
Even if the tooru had been introduced earlier no one would care about him since no thing that makes us draw attention to him since he has no characteristic other than being yasuho's ex-boyfriend and the fact that he killed the jobim was something that killed hype since jobim was one of the most important characters in history just to be dying for a piece of can it seems that it was something that the araki he saw from the story that didn't have a villain and put it up to people not to criticize, There's also the one where he has one of the powerful stand in jojos just for him to lose because gappy took power out of his ass.
Tooru should have been josuke JoBro so when the reveal that he's the head doctor would have been more of betrayal
@Spoonymanynoops It's you! Cringe nae nae baby from the discord server!
Yo gator
11:28- a better twist would be if the Stand itself was the mastermind and it attaches to users such as Tooru like a parasite- it would preserve the Tooru twist but made it more unique.
That's actually a cool idea
This.
Having seen Toru and how WoU is a constant of nature, I genuinely want a stand like this
One where the stand is the main villain
Even tho I enjoyed how Tooru worked as the user of the Stand, the idea of a Stand whose ability implies a control over really vast concepts (something like the concept of misfortune, reality or being directly connected to how the magnetism fron the core of the earth functions.), having like more than one user or being capable of moving between different people, could be really really cool. Damn, just a stand that has two users or more would be cool in itself.
@@thatsprettylunchean well, the Tomb of the Boom has 3 users
@@it6647 I think all three of them just have the same Stand, not the same Stand being shared with three users. Not the first time that we've seen it. Remember Star Platinum?
4:29- agreed. His Stand has such intimidation and charisma that Tooru seems lacking in contrast- the latter coming across as a perverted parasite who depended on Yasuho for getting to where he was- which gets much retroactively creepier when you know how potentially old he is.
I’m probably nowhere near the first person to comment this but it is worth noting that a lot of the examples of Kira being set up you’ve highlighted through the video were added in the part 4 anime adaptation. I would not be surprised if Tooru was given a similar treatment
Tooru will finally get his redemption in 2034 when the anime releases on Jojo+
Joshu solos
Can't believe we never got Tooru vs Joshu 🤧
@@chewiedog1at least he tried
@chewiedog1 if we did then Jojolion would have ended early
You suck
I think its really funny that Josuke basically resolves the Higashikata situation by complete chance without knowing. The whole part is showing this poweder keg, slowly simmering to an explosive confrontation. But when it actually goes off Josuke is on the other side of town and doesnt even witness it. He defeats WoU like he would any other mook of the week and that happens to resolve the Higashikata curse. The dude probably forgot who Jobin even was at that point, it was totally irrelevant to him
And even funnier, he didn’t even know he was antagonizing Jobin. He had the beetle battle, then left, saved Jobin from Damo, left, and when Josuke finally became family, Jobin is gone.
What a joke lmao
I'll never understand why Araki wasted like 2 chapters focusing on Fumi and Lucy instead of giving a bit more time to focus on the main story that desperately needed it
And we'll never see fumi again 🙃
@@chewiedog1 unless he shows up in part 9
More like he wasted 108 chapters by not focusing on Fumi and Lucy
The only good thing we learned is that speedwagon foundation is alive and well
@@magnusprobus4777 Based and Joseph pilled
4:17 dude I got more fear from Damo than from tooru 💀
*in toad's voice * "WAAAAHH, YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET FIRST IN LINE IN THE CALAMITY'S ORDER, WAAAAAHHH"
All Tooru did was turn Jojolion into a Scot Pilgrim movie
Man, everything about Toru just felt like Araki speedrunning the ending of Part 8. Just shows up out of nowhere and starts nuking people. Doesn't help that everything wraps up way too fucking fast, killing like 3 characters for no fucking reason (seriously, all the other deaths that happen in the past parts felt tasteful and made sense, but here it's just that WoU shows up wherever he wants and starts blasting, killing Jobin and Rai, and then Kei for some reason? Like why her?) And then suddenly Josuke gets his deus ex machina power up for no reason, and then the part is over, like HUH???
we don't even find out why the wall eyes are a thing, far as I know, an that's kinda something is epcifically thought was gnna be a big deal
What a speedrun. It took longer than phantom blood
@@AchillesofOblivion Crazy if true. Especially when you consider that both introduced and finished off a villain in roughly the same amount of time, and the one after 20+ years of experience came out half baked
@@sarafontanini7051 Hamon Beat actually explained most plot points in his "Debunking Araki Forgot" video about JoJolion. It's heavily implied that the Wall Eyes were a Devil's Palm, most likely created through Johnny's sacrifice. And it was both a combination of the New Rokakaka and the Wall Eyes power that Josefumi and Kira fused, otherwise they would have most likely just exchanged parts.
@@christheplayer99 Didn't he say at the start that he expected everything in jojolion to be explained, and now he justifies everything with vague implications and headcanons?
That's HamonBeat's problem is he explains away every plot hole with un explained headcanon.
If I might offer some criticism, a mystery whose major twist can be figured out in advance isn't necessarily a bad thing. This is going to be a _very_ unusual (bizarre, if you will) comparison to make to Jojo of all things, but the works of HP Lovecraft are a great example of stories with twists that are arguably downright predictable, yet do a pretty good job at building tension towards their "reveals".
yeah a mystery you can't figure out or solve is a shtty mystery. even if it takes the actual characters too long too solve it, that;;s still better than a mystery with no answers, no clues, no hitn and jsut dumps everything on you at the last second with no build up.
The difference is that HP Lovecraft has that buildup of tension, and that's mainly what he's banking on. He's not selling the mystery, he's selling the buildup to the reveal of the mystery.
With Tooru, it's different. There was absolutely no buildup, so it all depends on the mystery. That's where a mystery that can be easily figured out sucks.
I personally like how Tooru wasn't a presence. Dio, Kars, DIO, Kira, Diavolo, Pucci, Valentine were all a big presence and that's great but with Tooru being a mystery is great in a totally different way, unlike Kira who was a mystery to the characters and not the reader. Tooru is a mystery to literally everyone, makes it feel like it really can be anyone, any character can be this monster
I love how Jobin is so good he converts you into a Tooru Hater
Could agree
Some things that also bug me about Tooru (or really just the end of the series):
-We hear that not everyone understands Jobin’s stand and it is implied it has some crazy secret ability that makes us think main antagonist stand vibes, but his stand’s secret power is really just knock off killer Queen and we hardly see it used to it’s fullest.
-I think Tooru actually has some great speeches and moments that the video doesn’t pick up on. Like his anxiety and fear of catastrophe. This partially comes from the Tooru defenders, but I do really like that aspect of his character.
He had a great idea stolen from him before, his life is extremely precarious as he is a rock human blending into human society when eventually the doctor and him not aging are going to raise questions and ruin everything he has built. His stand is almost like the reverse of this. The anxiety he feels about his place in the world is manifested into actual catastrophe whenever someone tries to pursue him. The problem is, a lot of this IS just from my personal readings and others. While I think that was the intention behind his character, which is interesting, most of his dialogue and later actions don’t refer to or build on these tensions.
damn imagine your Stand is a better villain than you
Considering the amount of additional exposition and especially the Radio Gaga anecdote at the end of Jojolion, I wouldn't be surprised if Part 8 is the first part not meant to be an isolated story. It's clear that Araki was thinking about Part 9 before finishing Jojolion (by his own admission), so I wouldn't be surprised if we see more development of Tooru in Jojolands. If that is the case though, it does suck that Part 8, as an isolated narratives, has ended up suffering as a result
Tooru feels more like a rolling stones villain than a main villain
All fun to hate on Tooru until you see a little meteorite coming to your house.
I like how tooru played a less “end of the world villain” and more of a simple yet powerful character who helped develop both joskue and the story
the thing i like about tooru, is that he feels like a normal enemy, not like the ''main villain''.
also, he is more like an antagonist than a villain
Agree
that's what you LIKE about him? why? What's good about the final boss being nothing more than yet another generic antagonist?
@@0DemonKiller0 cuz he is not a super edgy badass ? cuz he is not a super evil mastermind with over the top goals ?
You can like him for many reasons, and him just being casual guy is one of those reasons, it's not that hard to understand
@@Starkor990 So you're saying they (maybe you included), like a character with no substance as the final antagonist of the entire story arc? As in to say, you enjoy a bland story which the climax feels the exact same as the rest of the story.
I can't fault you if you really think that way, but man you lot sure have shit tastes
@@Starkor990 yeah i feel you bro
I think Tooru being written into Jojolion was like a jigsaw puzzle you started, but you forgot to finish.
There was potential, and honestly could have been one of the best villains. The Rock Humans might as well have just been the "main villain" as a whole.
I'm pretty sure Rock Humans are already supposed to be parallels to the Pillar Men, only problem is barely any of them have the same presence the Pillar Men had
The problem with Tooru is if he wan in any other manga he would be a solid villian. I just don't think he stacks up to other villians in jojos. Probably only Kars but everyone else honestly outshines him.
The only thing I disagree with you on is if Toru was a good main villain it would make this a good part.
Jojolion is by far and away the worst jojo part there ever was.
Characters that go nowhere
Characters with no discernable motives
Dropped plot points
Dropped mysteries
Unsatisfactory answers to mysteries
Incoherent plot
Plot holes
Stupid dialogue
I'm convinced Araki either
A. Ran out of ideas
Or
B. Had his intentions with the story guessed in advance and tried to change it unsuccessfully
I agree
You’re describing part 5
@@benguy8338Real, lol. Part 5 still has my favorite fights, but all its set ups which lead to nowhere to this day still infuriates me.
@@benguy8338except he’s not? Part 5’a plot was pretty clear and concise, the goal was established in chapter 1 and it followed through to the end.
@@senny- What set ups might those be?
Araki should have given Tooru a stalker personality having him introduced earlier then reappearing around Yasuho or the rokakaka sometimes the characters would notice and be like "hey what are you doing here" or sometimes we would notice him in the background. Imagine a panel earlier in the series were Josuke just finished a big fight and for some random reason(idk maybe he wants to ask him a question regarding Holy's health) he wants to pursue the head doctor and yasuho addresses a knife in his leg and Josuke is like "I swear that wasn't there before" and we notice Tooru leaving the scene in the background
Honestly this is a great video, I would love to see more long form, opinion based videos from you
I feel that JoJolion and Tooru will be much more appreciated when they get adopted into an anime, much like Parts 5 and 6.
Other than that, just curious, what’s that song that plays 8 seconds in?
they could probably put Tooru in the background in some scenes to give him some actual presence like they did with Kira in part 4, though this probably wont fix Tooru's problems as a whole.
As Tooru is the reason the Rokakaka Fruit is being harvested, alluding to the group behind the fruit smuggling group and then noting the leader watches them carefully could function as a seamless way to obviously hint at Tooru in a sensible way, like “the leader wants his profits” stuff?
@@unoriginalname9556i think itd go a long way tbf. Literally one 10 second scene of him bumping into josuke and saying "hey i saw u hanging out with yasuho" or something then leaving would make the ending "twist" much more of a twist. People will go like "oh hey its that weird looking guy from earlier in the part, thats a neat callback" when they see him as an assistant and then the reveal would at least have some sort of impact or shock value
@@EXFrost That, or have Head Doctor peacefully and unsuspiciously walk across the street in scenes like when Gappy kills Vitamin C's user.
They gotta make a whole arc for tooru along side wou for this to work and idk if they will be willing to do so
The reason I love Chewiedog so much is that he could make a video where I disagree with every single point and yet I’m dying of laughter every second of it
Man, Jobin was so badass! I'm still salty that his stand wasn't seen much
Favorite main villain design and stand but he’s so fcking boring to me. Damo was better and more interesting
BRO I also wanted Jobin to be the main antagonist dude and not some literal MUSHROOM haired Tooru
like, I notice that since the START of his appearance to end his hair gets more ROUNDER that it just looks like some CYLINDER HAT and not hair
The one thing that kills me about Tooru that I never seen anyone mention is why did he do all this. Araki goes out of his way to clarify that the Lokakaka isn't illegal at all, if he just wanted money to give Rock Humans more power why didn't he, just like, file a patent for the medicine. And he goes public with it before it's released and names it after the fruit who he also sells to celebrities so I don't buy secrecy as his goal. Even if he thought he could get away with it doing clinical trials on numerous volunteers would be easier than kidnapping one woman to test all the medicine on. Everyone who tries to stop him does so because they want the Lokakaka to heal someone, he wants to make and sell medicine. These goals align with each other. I genuinely do not understand why Tooru went out of his way to be evil and make things harder for himself even withstanding opposition. He murders people over a drug he already wants to go public with that's totally legal and made of a fruit quite literally grows on trees in DAYS. He could accomplish everything exactly the same with a patent and clinical trials which he'd probably need to get anyways to actually be able to sell the medicine.
The mentality of the rock humans.. Always complicate things for themselfes 😂
@@IciWhy *The mentality of most villains in fiction... not that it's necessarily a bad thing
Is it weird that I see Wonder of U as the main villain and Tooru as just some random antagonistic dingus?
Honestly maybe it's because I'm older and maybe have a different perspective but looking back in hindsight you do see the presence of him there. You just don't realize it until the end that's the problem.
But everything that's happening is because of him it's just not said directly. It's implied and subtle and that's why a lot of people think he has no presence.
As far as I concerned the 2nd that they mentioned the hospital that's when his presence and the main villain was revealed....
But I did feel vindicated with big mama came out .... And just space truckd him. Mmhmm kaato
Loved ur comment,
But you did not have to end it with "mmmmmhmmm Caato" at the end 😶
@@chewiedog1 he definitely had to
@@chewiedog1 he had to do it, it was fated to happen
It was completely necessary
Imagine if Tooru interacted with the rest of the “Rock Human” villains. For example if we got to see Tooru interact with people like Tamaki Damo and Poor Tom in the shadows.
That could’ve added more to his sinister villainous side.
I remember thinking as I read JoJolion that this would be a really interesting plot development if I actually cared about this villain. He had all the makings of what I considered a good villain and then just fell short.
The Tooru gatekeeping isn’t because he got better overtime. It’s actually a warning to not trigger Wonder Of U.
You know a villain is bad when his stand is more recognizable than him
if I ever got to write a JoJo's villian, it'd be a big twist villian, like jobro turned joefoe, but there'd be subtle hints, like maybe they have a stand that can heal any wound, but sometimes they choose not to heal our main character in some situations, or their stand allows them to see everything within a 100meter radius, and they don't warn the mc of a villian 50 or so meters head
TBT I don't think Tooru is a poorly re-imagined Kira, he's a poorly re-imagined Kars and Rock humans are poorly re-imagined Pillar men.
What makes Kars so interesting is that he wanted to free his people from the their weakness to the sun and having to live underground but because they attacked them because the price of his new found abilities was having to consume much, much more lifeforce he wiped them out to just his 3 companions which only made him that more obsessed with his goal because he had to prove himself right to justify his genocidal actions. Ultimately his pursuit of becoming the ultimate being costs him his remaining 3 companions he sacrificed his entire race on the altar of his ambitions but he succeeds only for fate to immediately prove how hollow and meaningless his goal was all along because he does become the Ultimate being but winds up all alone drifting in the void of space with nothing to look forward to but eternity by himself so eventually he the greatest intellect the world had ever know just stops thinking.
There's an ironic tragedy there for Kars that just isn't there for Tooru, sure Tooru was trying to advance the cause of his people like Kars but because of the very nature of himself and his people all that was just a means to their individual/mutual ends/interests and no further there was no real greater motivation there but self-interest there was no tragedy or pathos in Tooru's defeat and ultimate failure just further affirmation of why the individualistic nature of rock humans has kept at the margins and in the shadow of humanity as their collective efforts motivated by mere mutual interest failed to overcome the will, and self-sacrificing love and determination of just 1 human family.
Tooru was technically a looming presence as the unknown head of the rokakaka dealing team. We spent most of the part trying to find who was behind it all. And when Wonder of U did appear it created as much tension as scenes with King Crimson imo. Even before we saw him face to face he was always watching. We saw him kill a kid at tsuru's school, staring outside the higashikata house window. We saw the old man always half out of frame. Just far enough to make it uncomfrotable. He was a force that slowly approached as Gappy found out more about his organization. I do think the fact that he looks and acts like a teen made his true identity less frightening, but he still manipulated Yasuho's life and is an absolute menace for taunting on her with his i-pod
I actually really like Tooru, but yeah the whole part was building up for Joubin to be the final boss. Meanwhile his death was such a letdown I didn't even realize he was permanently dead until the part ENDED. I thought it was gonna be like Norisuke
I think the only real reason why people like him is his Stand. His stand literally can destroy if you ever try to acknowledge or approach him.
Wonder of u is definitely the perfect counter to something like Love train, or maiden heaven. As strong as those stands are, if they even attempt to approach or acknowledge wonder of u they’ll be in a world of hurt.
I thought Love Train redirected misfortune to others? (Haven't read or watched any of the JoJo mangas/animes, I'm going off of videos and Roblox games here)
@@watermelongaming3698pretty much, love train is fortune, wonder of u is calamity, good luck and bad luck
Them fighting is in essence a stalemate, if misfortune comes to funny because of tooru, then it's just deflected. But love train has a set range and if funny goes outside that range he's dead, so he won't, ever
Neither can kill each other, so their fight is just a stalemate
I just realized that Jodio was diagnosed with *Antisocial* Personality disorder, and his dad is nowhere to be found. Considering that the Joestar is his mom I think that Jodio’s dad could be a rock human. Early as fuck predict but hey not impossible
as a Tooru lover I think what we actually like about him is what he could've been, not what he is. If he was introduced way earlier, or not even introduced but just teased, and was set up as this looming shadow over everything in the series than he would be an amazing and menacing villain. The way he is now it feels like Araki just wanted to wrap up Jojolion soon and realized it needs a main villain, so he popped Tooru into the story and since there was little time to give him good developement as a character, he instead gave him one of imo the best stands in the series, and put most focus into that instead since this was easier to do. Sucks cuz with proper care he really could've been the best Jojo villain like actually.
I just finished Jojolion, and honestly Tooru had soooo much potential. He could have popped up a few times or been hinted on throughout the part instead of just spawning in in like the last 20 chapters. If that happened, he would have felt like the main villain rather than the last villain
He's NOT the main villan, araki has pretty clearly stated so when he comments on Toru in the JoJo magazine, Toru is a stand in for greater, intangible forces of the world.
Toru himself, the individual, is not important. Torus importance is what he thematically represents for the story of JoJolion.
Hes obviously going to be a disappointing main villan, but the community is the only ones trying to make him fit the "Main villan" archetype
@@Skibbutz then who is the main?
@@x-ler2066 Jojolion doesn't have a main villan, or atleast, it doesn't have a Person as its main villan.
Jojolions "main villan" would be the force of calamity.
But obviously you can't just punch a universal force, so Araki made Toru a kind of "Mascot" or stand in to allow Jouske to metaphorically "defeat" this force.
@@Skibbutz proof?
@@ratedr7845 The final act of the part is breaking the curse. Jojolion is a story about breaking a curse.
Compare this any other part, who's goals were usually just beating the villian to save something:
From part 3's "Defeat dio to save holly", to part 4's "Defeat kira to restore peace to morioh", to part 5's "Defeat the boss to take down Passione", to part 6's "Defeat pucci to save jotaro/the entire world" to part 7's "Defeat valentine to save lucy/the holy corpse".
Tooru doesn't fit that description, not directly anyway, the main goal behind every action in jojolion was "gain the Rokakaka to secure my own goal", and alot of different parties had a different goal. Josuke and Yashuo wanted to save holy, Jobin and the higashikata's wanted to cure the family curse, The rock humans wanted to gain profit and power.
You can consider the rock humans the "main enemy" because they aren't main characters, but Jobin was as much of an antagonistic force againsed to Josuke.
Thats why there isn't a traditional main villain here.
I’ll say tooru was kind of like the piller men, the three of them were practically the main antagonist (the whole rokakaka organization) but Kars was just the final villian. (Tooru)
Kars is way cooler ngl. He’s got personality, even if some think a hateable one, an awesome backstory that connects to all of Jojo and a unique set of powers which interweave with the plot nicely.
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. Kars was *the* reason behind all of Jojo. He was always the leader of the three. Even in the aztec carvings he was always presented at the top. Even when Wham first awakens, he introduces the other two as his masters. And when you see Eisidisi is the first Joseph fights, it ends up being obvious Kars will be the final villain and that he will success on his plan.
You can definetly argue Kars is A LOT more generic, but he has a lot more presence and buildup than Tooru.
I know for a fact I’m late to this comment section but as a Wou fan myself I do not like Tooru and I feel the reason people defend him so much is because Wou had such a presence and was such a threat it made whoever this stand user was feel so threatening and we’re just using the logic of oh if Wou is cool and threatening Tooru is cool and threatening.
Toru and Wou are the same entity. Why are you acting like they’re two separate people?
@ because they basically act completely differently to the point where I’m able to completely separate Tooru and Wou
@@SliceOfShinGoji How? Toru controls the stand (changing the order of calamity for example) and WOU is a reflection of him.
You don’t think Whitesnake or KC are their own entities since they are able to talk, do you?
@ you have a good point ngl but I just feel like araki did a better job with both of those different villains than with Toru he made Pucci and Diavolo menacing in their own right and when Toru was revealed as the villain I just didn’t care tbh he didn’t have enough of a presence in the part fr. I’m not on his level of Toru hate tho I do like Toru I just feel like he’s a weak link in the chain of jojo villains
@@goingcrazygoingstupid1308 A writer can make anything happen in his story, but he still has to convince the readers what happened made sense else they won't buy it. WoU and Toru are one yes, but they are separated on the narrative level. The user and the stand are at two different locations at the same time, engaging in two different events loosely related to each other, has two different personalities, etc... You brought up King Crimson and Whitesnake, then I ask you: Why was people be able to assign the stands with the villains in older parts, but unable to with Toru specifically?
9:23 - Funny also had the same resolve as the Joestars. Also Kira, Pucchi, Dio, they all had it
It's so funny to me that JJL's love interest is named YassHoe
Man has teddy bears on his arms. 'Nuff said. I mean I know they're beavers or whatever but I mean like stuff animals?
The Wonder Of U is an absolutely incredible stand, I love the design and I love the presence… But it should have been saved for part 9’s villain, even if that villain wasn’t Tooru. Speed King vs Soft and Wet would have been too good to pass up.
Nah man. Toru was perfect. You guys dont get the whole picture because your nerdy brains is so fixated on the face of the story that you never really get deep into it. Read Shakespeare or the epic or something. That should open your eyes.
@@BL00DYMERCURY Tooru*
@@vanterlexx1880no it's Toru. Tooru is a mistranslation
@@AchillesofOblivion When?
@@vanterlexx1880His name was spelled as "Toru" on the card pack that was on sale during the jojo exhibition kanazawa event
Either is correct in english i guess.
8:45' jobin has to be one of my favourite villian designs'
Donatello versus (DIO'S child with the spiral necklace) has left the chat
One of my
the idea of having a joestar villan is wild and goes hard af fr
Funny Valentine has a funny face, great villain 👍
jobin was more of a main villain than he was bro tooru was just op
It actually depends on how you look at it as part of the theme of life in part 8. What I mean why do we live. Rock humans represent this by being parasitoids turned full parasites, they steal identity and leech on any way they can while focusing on survival. Survival is so easy in modern world, yet they need to do constantly better. Some of them tried to mimic humans and form bonds, but all of them were pale imitations that lacked the truly important things bonds have. Josuke struggles with survival a little, but he is more interested in finding his life's meaning and purpose and is searching for his memories for that. Tooru on other hand has gotten into such a cozy position where surviving is easy, but he has nothing else than that. It is why he is searching purpose through success, believing that after death only dreams and memories remain. But success is not his dream, he pursues it because he wants to have a dream to give his life purpose instead of it being blind survival. It is also why he wants to get Yasuho back to give her another thing to work towards. In the end only thing he knew how to do was survive. First sign was how he ate a hornets nest, despite having fond memories of being taken care hornet hive ( which is why his last memory was off a hornet ). He did not need to eat them, he had even just eaten a lunch. It was too easy and convenient nutrition. Second sign was how willing he was to use Yasuho to save himself at her cost, and spend his last minutes begging for her to save him. He talked a big game of being a giant boulder on top of a hill, yet when he fell he was just a small pebble.
Other point about Tooru specifically is that his ability can only bring misery, since it harnesses calamity and enhances it just to survive. Like a parasite he will bring harm to anything close to him, just continue his meaningless survival
Tooru was already mid, his stand is the only doing all the work of being a villain.. And Tooru is just over there trying to date Yashuo.
The Old man would've served a better Antagonist
yeah i got no idea what araki was doing in the end of Jojolion. i thought he was just tanking the series because he was tired of it like horikoshi, so the fact that there even is a part 9 is surprising me
Aye you can’t take all Ws
Remember when people thought Damo Tamaki was gonna be the main villain?
Yeaaaah, me too, good times lol
Even Tooru’s barber is a better Villain bruh, look at how he did that man dirty 😭
If part 9 is going to be as crazy as i hope it is, toruu will get some exposition and the rokakaka trade expanded on. Jodio gains status in the criminal world as the part progresses similar to p5. This means a run in with the rock humans, josuke, and part 8 lore in general could happen due to their criminal exterprise nature, proximity to Hawaii (its also suggested that part 9 will feature sailing and traveling to islands).
I’d say Tooru is similar to Diavolo in the sense that what he represents extends far beyond his direct actions in the story, and overall, he enhances the story by being who he is.
This isn't really true though be because Diavolo has way more preserve in the story
00:08 what’s the song?
ua-cam.com/video/NyDm3TT4zU8/v-deo.htmlsi=flOstuE2RwS66xW8
Bro why you gotta put my boy Kars next to Enya and the guy that carry’s Dio’s head around for two seconds in part 1 😭😭😭😭😭
Tooru’s stand has leagues more presence than he ever will
To me I feel like Toru was meant to be a good villain who was just executed poorly.
Whats that? You have a guy with an extremely overpowered stand ability that has been stalking the main love intrest for her entire life and is the head of the group who are producing the rocacaca in the hospital... and on top of that this guy, due to his upbringing of overcoming a society of wasps, desires to overcome the very society that he is a minority in now... that sound like a fantastic villain! Oh wait... literally none of that information is told or shown to us, and the little information that is shown is barely even covered and left entirely vague... oh nevermind guess he sucks now...
We were on the verge of greatness... we were this close
4:28 I mean man i didn't know who tooru was i thought that Wonder of You the stand WAS the villian
Defense for Tooru:
Equivalent Exchange
Other villains were SO GOOD that there had to be a terrible one.
Is it though. Just make them all good
Tory being a bad villain means that the next one has to be outstanding. This is Araki, not some random hack. He’ll make it up to us.
Tooru isn't terrible, he is just an antagonist, at the end, jojolion felt like a free for all instead of main villain vs main character
@@sleeper5905 Jobin is also just an antagonist and is a million times more compelling than Toru. That's not an excuse.
Honestly this guy made me drop the manga. He was so fucking boring. Ruined the whole part for me.
i dont think toru is bad... just bad in comparison
as i say it, jojolion has some of the best villainy, but not the best singular "villain"
my hope is that they add like, a lot of new early scenes for toru in the anime. like mentions, background appearances, even interactions similar to the yoshikage kira car scene, like 20 episodes before what will be the longest arc in jojo anime history because seriously the wonder of u arc is bigger than all of part 1 (and i love it for it, tbh)