Lost in Translation: Was Abraham's Faith Counted as Righteousness?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- In Romans 4:3 Paul quotes Genesis 15:6 about the "faith of Abraham," being "reckoned" as "righteousness," which is a meaning quite opposite to the original context and literal Hebrew phrasing. And yet, this along with Romans 1:17, are the TWO PILLAR texts of his entire understanding of what he calls "his Gospel."
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מהמלים בקשר את המלים ועל סמך המלים
Retired Prof. of Religious Studies/Christian Origins
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte
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Dr Tabor, I’ve read two of your books and watched more videos than I can count. You have reignited my desire to learn and understand. Many thanks.
When my friends and i examined the Tanakh in this verse concerning Abraham, we came to the conclusion that Abraham counted YHWH as righteous for the amazing promise He made.
❤ Thanks. This shows the importance to separate now from Romes religion, and retrurn to early christianity, as to pre christianity, as theTeacher is our best rerence to study Jesus Way. We must remember that the Way is Wisdom in Daylight, and studying work. Texts are to take as a picture in the face of archeological Wise writting . Most pictures were lost, and moral forgeries are numerous. Thanks again for this unique panoramic view of archaeological writing elements about Our common Humanity Faith.❤
The slave of Abraham who would have been heir was Eleazar. Ishmael wasn’t born yet in Gen 15.
Thats what i was thinking too 🤔
@David,
I was jarred by this as well and it is certainly puzzling. I'm intrigued to understand because he seemed to have made a blunder like this in another instance.
At present I assume it was a slip of the memory or something but maybe he has a reason for it... it would be great to query him and get his response
the lucky fool or simple minded ; EL is the sacrificial beast without a blemish, how could he be not rightious ; the suffering servant.
Agree. We still need to be careful about good intended scholars by doing our own research ..
This Lost series makes sense of so much in Evangelical theology and Biblical interpretation, that didn’t hold together back when I was doing Christian Bible study. Now I’m finally learning WHY it didn’t add up. Once again, my mind is blown, in a good way.
You’re doing an incredible job, Dr. Tabor! People need to know these things. And hopefully, the truth will fall on a heart of flesh.
Thank you Sir.
For lying to you?
The problem is that Christianity has anchored its identity onto Paul. You can’t take away Paul or else there is nothing left to hold on to. There is no good news without Paul, and the motivations of Paul’s message may never be made clear to us.
Tell me you have no idea what the Bible says without actually telling me LOL
"The problem is that Christianity has anchored its identity onto Paul." True.
"You can’t take away Paul or else there is nothing left to hold on to." False
"There is no good news without Paul, " The good news of "Jesus" or Yeshua was that God does not care what we have done in the past only what we would do if he turned us loose in His home. "Repent for the Kingdom is at hand!"
"and the motivations of Paul’s message may never be made clear to us." Paul's motivations are threefold.
Motive 1. Keep Gentiles from adopting Jewish practices. The letter attributed to James was most likely originally written by Yeshua himself inviting Gentiles to adopt Jewish beliefs about God. Spend some time listening to Rabbi Tovia Singer talk about what he thinks about the idea of Gentiles converting to Judaism and you will understand what I am talking about. To many Jews like Paul and Rabbi Singer Judaism is first and foremost a nationality and secondly a religion. No matter how hard I try I can never become a Jew in their eyes just as I can never become a Mexican or Japanese.
Motive 2. Yeshua was not crucified, he was stoned in the Temple by Saul on the morning of Passover. Yeshua had written the letter attributed to James, The Beatitudes, the Woes, and the Lord's Prayer before his death, and the later three were given by "Matthew" to "Luke" along with some testimony of the events at the Temple and some sayings. Luke tracked Saul down first while Saul was using the alias Peter and later the alias Paul collecting the letters of Paul along the way. Acts of the Apostles are Luke's detective notes.
Motive 3. Discredit the Karaite Judaism movement that could only come about by the introduction of numerous copies of the Septuagint and the Synagogue system teaching men to read for themselves. Paul turned the last prophet God would send before He took away the Temple into just another failed Jewish messiah. It was Sadducees who escaped the Temple that turned Saul's failed Jewish messiah into God incarnate.
Shalom
@@ToothOfTheLionyou use the KJV 🤡
@@vikingdemonpr Too high of a reading level for you?
@@ToothOfTheLion even its contemporaries said it was hot garbage. It's not even popular in the UK where it originated because they know is a bad translation. Same with the Reina-Varela its Spanish equivalent.
Great Teaching Dr. JT
Loved this. Would love to see a video by Dr Tabor in reference to and citing where in the Bible we draw on something that says: the spirit of the Lord rushs down through the ages and lands on the righteous.
LMAO the self righteous always say the stupidest things
@@ToothOfTheLionsmh whatever 🤦 foo.
@@ToothOfTheLion You certainly showed it.
@@mugikuyu9403 Did I now? Lol
@@ToothOfTheLion I love how you give the theory and then demonstrate. A good teacher you are.
Thnxs brodhisattva 🙏
Faith doesn’t just mean belief. It means obedience because of belief. Noah was obedient in building the ark because he believed God when he said he should build it.
No the Bible does not teach that faith = obedience.
@@jeffreydavid6794 Faith leads to obedience.
@@jeffreydavid6794 Hebrews 11:
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the bland of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
@onika6357 It can. But Christians still have a sinful nature and can also choose disobedience. It's their faith that saves them. Not their obedience. Jonah, David, Lot, Abraham, Paul, Moses, etc. All had periods of extreme disobedience. The thief on the cross was saved by his faith in Jesus. Not a life of obedience.
Wrong. You are preaching legalism. It’s not belief per se but trust. If the law of Moses ever saved anyone, Christ died in vain. You can’t serve two masters. You’re either Jewish, the people of the law, or Christian, the children of grace.
Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good… can never… make the comers thereunto perfect.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats [the law of Moses] should take away sins.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin [the law of Moses] thou [God] hast had no pleasure.
8 …Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not [accept], neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he [Jesus], Lo, I come to do thy will, O God…
10 By… which will, we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices [by the law] WHICH CAN NEVER TAKE AWAY SINS:
12 But this man [Jesus Christ], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins FOR EVER, sat down on the right hand of God;
14 For by one offering he hath perfected FOR EVER them that are sanctified.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY laws [all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, Gal. 5:14] into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 AND THEIR SINS AND INIQUITIES WILL I REMEMBER NO MORE.
18 Now where remission of these [sins] is, there is no more offering [no more sacrifice] for sin [but]…
19 …by the blood of Jesus,
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) [Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, John 15:16. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day, John 6:39]
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth [is still] no more [no other] sacrifice for sins,
27 But [that which would only give us] a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation… [the law of Moses].
28 He [Jesus] THAT DESPISED MOSES’ LAW died without mercy [by the law] under two or three witnesses:
29 …how much sorer punishment… shall [you] be… worthy [of], who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith [you were] sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto [has despised] the Spirit of grace [by clinging to the law]?
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back [unto the law], my soul shall have no pleasure in him. [cr v. 6]
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition [the judgment and fiery indignation that comes by the law]; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Hebrews 26-29 is referring to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ which is consistent with the exegesis of the entire passage showing us how his sacrifice satisfied God, which the law could not do. It’s one cohesive and consistent point. It is about the insufficiency of the law from the first sentence to the last. It draws a very definitive line between God’s law and the law of Moses. The law never took away sin, so he came to put his law of love in our hearts. If the law never pleased God or took away sin, how could it please the son of God who died by the law? Anyone who preaches sinfulness is trying to bring us back under the law from which we have been set free.
Here’s a paraphrase of what it says:
Hebrews 26-29: If we sin willfully, after receiving the knowledge of truth, there is still no other sacrifice needed for the forgiveness of sin but the body and blood of Jesus Christ because the law leads only to judgment and punishment. Jesus died by the law of Moses which he hated (which could not please God). How much more worthy of punishment are you who despises his grace by turning back to the law? But we are not of those who turn back to the judgment and fiery indignation of the law but trust his grace to the saving of our souls (verse 39).
Faith without works is dead. Genesis one? The love of my life. I shall wait to hear your critique of 1:1. Right up my alley
And works without righteousness is merely identity politics.
Has anybody ever called out Paul on his redefining righteousness?
OV
Yes and it's backed by scripture but people still choose to ignore scary stuff like the truth
Ive even been told that one cannot be saved without "Paul's gospel"...
Righteousness is not the core issue for Paul as i have showed in a comment above. The problem is we all still read Paul trough the eyes of Augustine. That is the problem of Christianity as one also can see in how Martin Luther interpreted this issue. Although he choose a more mystic approach, he still was heavily influenced by Augustine.
It’s not redefining, that’s what it means, Abraham wasn’t righteous of himself just as no one else was or could be, all those declared righteous or had righteousness were those who believed or trusted God. Like Moses told Israel regarding the law if you follow it then it will be for your righteousness. So none of them were righteous on there own accord but were made so in following and obeying God. So what made Abraham righteous and gave him that is believing God
Chapter and verse please.
I think the problem comes in translating pistis as faith instead of faithfulness in our English translations. Faithfulness suggests an applied faith, as opposed to me just having faith in the Pythagorian theorum.
Righteousness is such a loaded word in the Judeo-Christian tradition that it is hard to use it sensably. In the New Jerusalem Bible uses the wording, "Abram put his faith in Yahweh and this was reconed to him as uprightness." Using this word, it simply means that Abram did the right thing in this case.....he used all his faculties and experiences with Yahweh to arrive at the right thing to do in this situation and that was to trust that Yahweh was good for his word. Abram also did the right or upright thing when Yahweh presented his first request and he trusted the voice he heard, and was obedient by packing up and leaving the land of Ur. While Enosh walked with Yahweh and Noah listened, trusted and obeyed, it is Abram who is remembered as the Father of Faith. What I think is remarkable about Abram's example is that it effectively reverses the disobedience of Adam and Cain who did not trust Yahweh and consequently, did not obey. It is Abram's faith paradigm....listening-trusting-obeying, the upright thing to do in all circumstances, that is the basis for the maturing of the children of Yahweh (all mankind) into sons and daughters....capable of co-operating and participating in the restoration of all creation. I like the word "upright" for it dodges all the muddled connotations we have built up around "righteousness."
Thank you
I do not trust Paul he is very wicked person just like we seen it today safe always be safe
What do you think about the Gospel of Judas thank you
This video has confused me. So, what is the "Good News"? Do I need to put my Trust/Faith in the work of Jesus at the cross and his resurrection or do I need to put my Trust/Faith in GOD knowing that he is able to do what be said he would do; to wit save me somehow?
If faith means believe in God, and God says His Laws must not be abandoned, what right does Paul have to say Christians do not need to follow the Law anymore?
Even Abraham, followed God's command of circumcision when entering the Covenant with God. He didnt enter by faith alone.
Abraham never was, he is a fable.
James the quote the new twistament , and that is what is happening here regarding calling my son out of Egypt. It is not just an analogy, they are twisting it to make it seem as a prophecy about jesus when it is actually a reflection on past events with Israel and YAH
So you are saying we should disregard anything Paul wrote or taught and thereby a big chunk of the new testament
James: Why do you believe the "slave" born in Abraham's house was Ishmael, not Eliazar, the one who later brought back Rebecca for Isaac? Was Ishmael forever considered to be a slave and not a son?
One issue I see with your conclusion seems to be that James translates the passage the same way as Paul. It is God crediting Abraham with righteousness, not the other way around. The difference between Paul and James is that Paul is putting his emphasis on the initial faith of Abraham where James specifically says that it was through works such as offering Issac decades later which "fulfilled" the earlier reckoning of righteousness by faith. Thus the faith and works work together.
I SAY ABRAHAM IS GODS RIGHT HAND MAN, STANDING LAND AGREEMENT, 1380 MILES X 1380 MILES, AS I CALL HE AND SARA KING AND QUEEN IN MY DAILY PRAYER,
FAITH, SHALOM
HOWEVER NOW, JOHN 14:6, 3:3-5, REPENT OF YOUR SINS, SHALOM
AS SCRIPTURE OF PARABLE OF THE RICH MAN, CAMEL AND NEEDLE,
END OF SCRIPTURE, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD ! ?
My thought of something that was said to me from a Choctaw girl, 19million ?
Abraham believed God, Jesus, doing what he was told and going wherever God, Jesus, told him, God, Jesus, counted him a believer because of his unturning faith in the commands! We also are counted as the seed in Abraham, in Jesus, in God, when we obey by the word and keep the faith of Jesus by the Holy Spirit, Jesus wisdom!
YHVH led me to this understanding without any outside assistance three years ago.
the tithing of the NT is also backward.
Abram didn't tithe to King Malkiy-Tsedeq, the King tithed to Abram.
Abram wasn't counted righteous - he was trusting the promise of Yah because he is righteous.
You missed another example. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, "And to seeds", as of many; but as of one, "And to thy seed", which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16) Was Paul unaware that there is more than one way to interpret the word seed? No. But he is claiming divine revelation, not logical reasoning. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (1 Corinthians 2:13) ... and I think also that I have the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 7:40)
Thank you so much!!
I am not sure that I understand James Tabor's argument. I guess it depends what one's faith is in. If one's faith is that Jesus fully represented his Father, the one and only God, that Jesus was the same as his Father and was acting for his Father on his Father's authority, then that is saving faith because that faith also requires us to believe that Christ is in us and that we are acting out of the mind of God in us as we are obedient to the Spirit in us. We are not rejecting faith in God's union with us to make us as He is, as Adam appears to have done when he chose to become a self made God, rather than trusting the process of God in us, our hope of Glory.
Also by the way, the blood of Christ represents God taking our destruction of Life into Himself, which is forgiveness of our transgression against Life, which God is. Our transgression is against God not a law specifically, the law does manifest the mind or character of God, but the sin is against what God is, Life/Love. Therefore only God can forgive sin, because only the offended party can forgo justice by accepting the loss created by us, himself. God in Christ was doing that, but to live we live in the life of Christ in us, or we remain dead. Gal.5:21; Gal.6:8.
James is just a descent of those old false apostles that challenged Paul. They said more or less the same as James here. In other words, if you want to know and understand the nature of oppositions that Paul faced is this one.
I don't understand it either. I thought our faith is in the righteousness of Christ who was fully and finally justified at the cross. Actually lately I've been considering, since our faith is so poor, that saving faith is trusting in the faith of Christ whose faith was proven perfect under the most extreme testing possible. His faith and righteousness, which was superior to Abraham's, is imputed to those of us who believe.
@@isaacoratile3126 I don't actually think that James is contrary to Paul. I would not think there is any difference between Paul and James in effect. Paul certainly creates the impression in my mind that faith without works is dead. That is why I quoted the two passages from Galatians, where Paul is making it very clear that faith should be producing fruit in our life, or else we remain without life. 2 Cor.13, the whole chapter especially verse 5. Also check out all of Romans 2 especially verse7. I think, to argue that James and Paul are in conflict, as James Tabor appears to do is disingenuous in my mind.
The thing that Paul does, though, is to emphasize first cause, which is Faith. It is faith or confidence in God that puts us right with God, justifies us, and on that foundation they can then do their good work in us. It is the faith of God, or the confidence of God in us that produces the good works in us, that we believe reflect or are the character of God in us, which is proof of their life in us, or we remain without life and under the wrath of God. John 3:36, 31-36.
@@annieBBL24 Thanks for your thoughts. Yes I think faith or belief or confidence in the righteousness of God is the horse that pulls the cart. Faith is the energizer that enables us to put our hope and confidence in Gods ability to save us from sin and its consequence, death. We trust God to do His good work in us, which is to fill us with Himself as Jesus was John 3:34-35.
Our confidence and trust is in their ability to finish the job they started in us, to be in their image and likeness. We don't seek a law to make us like them, but their indwelling spirit. In other words, it is God in us who makes us like God, Col.1:27.
These are the ideas that give me hope and comfort. Our sins are against life that originates in God. They have taken the death, our destruction of their life in us, into themselves and offer us their life in us for us to live, which we accept through faith. Our sins are forgiven because they are carrying the consequences of our transgressions against Life, which is what they are, Life.
Mr. Tabor you are incorrect about the reference to Abram's heir. Ishmael wasn't born yet. The heir was a nephew or cousin of Abram.
Underneath all this is the necessary sexual intercourse between Abraham and Sarah for the promise to come true. So when Abraham "believed", it is actually in reference to his actions and not some mental assent.
Abram entered Sarah for he counted the LORD righteous (in His promise).
Faith implies [and demands] obedience.
If you trust, believe and are loyal to the idea that your house is currently on fire, you will sprint out of the house and call the fire department.
To believe your house is on fire, but to stay inside calmly and watch tv, either means you are a lunatic or that you don’t really believe it you merely consider it.
Regardless, that kind of faith will not save you or your house from the fire.
Perhaps if we read וַיַּחְשְׁבֶ֥הָ as a Pual instead of the marked Qal, then we get the LXX ἐλογίσθη which is the word that Paul used. What do you think?
Thank you Dr. Tabor, your translation is correct 💯👏🏼. Just one little thing... verse 3 does not speak of Ishmael but of Eliezer.
*If you'll allow me I'd like to add a few things regarding Genesis 15:*
You can see in the beginning of chapter 15 that says: "After this" - the hebrew says *"After those things"* - meaning, what had happened before, in the previous chapter: Abraham swore it the name of the Lord (the explicit name) when facing the king of Sodom, and refused to take what isn't his, other than food for his people.
That it why he was given charity or a favour (which is translated in your translations as rightiousness) from God.
Abraham was not given these blessing by faith alone, he proved to God he was worthy, and he considered that a charity from God, and not the other way around.
*This can also be learnt from Genesis 18:*
18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. 19 *For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”*
*And from Genesis 26:4-5 - spoken to Isaac*
4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring (your seed - plural) all nations on earth will be blessed, 5 *because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”*
“ to act in good faith “ In general, the duty of good faith and fair dealing means, for example, that parties cannot evade the spirit of the bargain, lack diligence or slack off, perform incorrectly on purpose, abuse their power when specifying the terms of a contract, or interfere with or fail to cooperate in the other party's performance. Implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing (often simplified to good faith) is a rule used by most courts in the United States that requires every party in a contract to implement the agreement as intended, not using means to undercut the purpose of the transaction. Abraham’s honesty and sincerity of intention exhibit the only Good faith that matters.
“Lord, Lord, didn’t I do many good works in your name?!?!”
Hahahah
@@ToothOfTheLion the scofflaws, or scoffers will say “everything is nailed to the cross” so I will wait with my hate.
@@oldmanfigs The Bible says people will say what I said.. it doesn't say people will say what you just said. So good luck with that, believing a lie that is.
@@ToothOfTheLion that’s Christianity for you, a lie.
@@mugikuyu9403 Is that the lie you believe?
Paul’s gospel was accurate and did not disagree with James. The issue with this whole topic is understanding and defining exactly what faith actually is. For instance the scriptures never say to put your faith in anything. You cannot do anything with your faith. We are never told to do anything with our faith. It would be us doing something, so how does God get the glory then? You cannot use your faith to do “X”. The common error most Christians say is to “Put your faith in Jesus”. Faith is not trust, they are not the same thing. Romans 4:5 does not say trust. It says believes in/on Him. The works God has already prepared beforehand are what proceed out of the faith. This way God gets all the glory. Paul’s gospel was to bring about what is known as the obedience of faith. See Romans 1:5,6. Abraham obeyed God out of the faith. See Heb 11:8-10. It is the works that proceed from the faith. In the same way God prepared our works that proceed from faith to love one another and love God. In so doing we fulfill the law and that is why it is counted as righteousness. This whole plan was instituted by God. Our believing into Jesus results in faith and faith is supernatural and arises in us when we are genneo’ed from above when we believe. It is important to understand being “in Christ”is what this is talking about too. This is related to John 6:28,29 “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him in whom he as sent” God grants us to believe and our faith comes from the believing into Jesus and this faith is demonstrated by the works we do when we obey Jesus by walking according to the Spirit to love God and to love one another and thus fulfilling the whole law. There is much to say about faith. The problem is most Christians do not understand what faith actually is. For instance, 2 COR 5:7 “We walk by faith not by sight” means that we walk out of faith, or through the faith, is what it is saying and not the walking by faith statement which is misleading and can be easily misunderstood. To say that Paul was in error, one for whom Christ died and was appointed an apostle and was approved by God by the demonstration of miracles as well as being approved by the other apostles about his gospel is egregious and wrong. For anyone to say that the Apostle Paul was wrong, simply is not telling the truth and is without understanding.
I find it hard to think that Paul, who probably understood the Hebrew Bible better than anyone alive today, got it "wrong". As long as the main point is that we are justified by faith (ours or God's) and not by our works, then Paul's message is essentially unchanged, from a practical point of view.
How Important is this? Mt Everest in size.
You said that your translation of the Hebrew text is accurate and that Paul has mistranslated it. The problem is - Paul accurately quotes Genesis 15:6. Rather than using a Christian site, I looked it up in jewishvirtuallibrary and there the English translation is "And he believed in HaShem (the LORD); and He counted it to him for righteousness." The Greek Septuagint gives a similar translation. It appears that most if not all Jewish authorities would translate it similarly.
So who is correct here?
Are you really serious? What did God tell Isaac as to why He chose Abraham? You cannot pit one sentence of God against another and understand properly. This was the teaching in the Temptation account of Jesus - live by the word of God, don't tempt God to keep His word on your schedule, and don't pit one word of God against another. God gave specific reasons to Isaac that don't defy what He had said before - but Paul pits one thing God said to the exclusion of the other - totally defying the priniple teaching of Jesus about how to make sure we are properly interpreting and applying the words of God. Paul was an ignoramus. Also, there is no "seed" versus "seeds" as told by Paul. In Hebrew "seed" is always plural.
HaShem aka the shem = the sun who wore a magical cap that made him invisible. He is aka Pluto/Hades.
Sun worship is found throughout the bible…..For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. Psalm 84.11.
"Then spake Joshua to THE LORD, and said, SUN, stand thou still upon Gibeon! So, THE SUN stood still in the midst of heaven. And there was no day like that, before it or after it, that THE LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man."-Joshua 10.12-14.
good work.
“The righteous will live by faith” in the book of Habakkuk
It means ``Believers survive and escape the coming destruction.''
It means that the Christian group escapes from the Jewish war.
The same goes for the Epistle to the Hebrews and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
No Paul does'nt mean our forefather in the spirit.
How was Cornelius a Rightious gentile ? Cyrus an anointed ? James a Just ?
dhul Qarnain a king ? Abraha the father of marzuq and yacub ?
Mercurius (the messenger) compagnion of Mars and Venus
Paul the compagnion of Barnabbas and Silas
Drusus germanicus (zebedee) father of a Twin (didymus)
Why did the Camillus leave Jesus besaddened, not able to receive the kingdom ?
didn't he had believe ?
I must be the only person here who doesn't understand you. You're saying there's a subtle difference between Abraham's belief and what Paul taught? You're saying Paul got it wrong? Wasn't Paul a brilliant scholar on track to become a high level Pharisee or scribe? If Paul got this wrong what else did he get wrong?
As a student of Scripture for 70+ years, this is excellent. I absolutely agree with your conclusions, as to 'why' Abraham was considered 'Righteous'. {fwiw2U} "The greatest distance one can see, is the very nearness of God." ~ Shabdahbriah 🙏Persevere🙏
Oh look, another liar.
@@ToothOfTheLion
Looks like your tooth is in severe decay - you should pull it out because it's rotten
@@greglogan7706 You should try pulling it out yourself.
@@ToothOfTheLion
I have evidence that not just your teeth but your heart is rotten to the Core
@@greglogan7706 Present your case.
« If anyone wants to learn piety rather than disputation, let him straight away go to the sources (versetur in fontibus) and those writers who drank immediately from the sources. »
Erasmus, Way of reaching true theology (Ratio perveniendi ad veram theologiam), (1520) Basel, p. 217
The source of Pauls Christianity was Hebrew Judaism. The source was the Hebrew Bible which at that point was still just the 5 books of Moses or the TORAH
...justified by faith and not works... a very popular verse my Christian friends bring up when explaining why they dont follow the Mosaic Laws anymore.
Now I know you FEAR G-d...A was justified by His fear of the Deity.
Rev. 14: 6ff, Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the AGE ENDURING GOSPEL to proclaim to those who live on the earth-to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “FEAR THE DEITY and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
I have your book Jesus and Paul I haven't started reading it yet. Ultimately does Paul hijack Christianity or do you still think there's a way to read Paul that makes it work? I have watched much of your work about the Ebionites --
This is the ultimate conundrum of Christianity. You can’t remove Paul or else there is nothing left.
*Matthew’s Jesus and Hosea*
In the stories, When the Hebrews are “called” out of Egypt, they become safe, eventually.
Jesus was not in danger in Egypt.
Matthew’s “analogy” is bad.
10:25 !
Abram was A Brahma - an incarnation of El Elyon, the most high. The god that led him to his destiny was not El Elyon, but an incarnation of his testy son, Lucifer, the light of the physical universe that tests souls to see which deserve heavens and which need some time in the adversary's hells
Do you think Paul mistranslated by accident or intentionally to change his religion into something more appealing?
Why would Christ - Acts 9:10-15 send Paul to be Apostle to you & I if Christ knew Paul would get it wrong ?
@@robusc4940 I'm an atheist. To me Jesus is not infallible and Paul is a human beong who follows his own interests
that's not paul
Someone who added to Paul's letters messed up the quotation.
James That is one amazing reinterpretation of the text. Not only don't you tell us where you got your new translation from, there is no translation out there that I have read that would support your view that Abram was looking at God as righteousness rather than God imputing righteousness on Abram through faith. That is surely delusional to assume that everyone should just deep six all the scholars and translators that have said exactly what Paul said and instead ought to believe James Tabor's Revised Version.
A number of things you overlook:
In Genesis fifteen, It was the Word of the Lord (Davar/Logos) that came to Abram and took him outside. That in itself qualifies as a Theophany or even a Christophany. A mere vision doesn't do that.
The Gospel aspect of this is also expounded on by Paul in Galatians three.
Some translations say, And he (Abram) believed IN the Lord, and it was counted unto him as righteousness. How does Abram count it unto the Lord as righteousness. That would surely be a egotistical thing for Abe to consider of God. That is a ridiculous statement. Also Believe IN the Lord which implies that Abe is believing in the Lord. Bottom Line The Word/Logos is the Christian Gospel. (Acts 16:31)
Speaking of Context, the whole of Genesis fifteen is God establishing a Covenant with Abram, who wasn't Jewish based on God alone. Not a covenant where each has to do something to complete the transaction.
"17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that PASSED BETWEEN THOSE PIECES.
18 In the same day THE LORD MADE A COVENANT WITH ABRAM, saying, Unto thy seed (Singular-Gal. 3:16-18) have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (Genesis 15)
This is what Faith is about. The Seed is Christ NOT Israel. (Gal. 3:16-18)
James That is one amazing reinterpretation of the text. Not only don't you tell us where you got your new translation from, there is no translation out there that I have read that would support your view that Abram was looking at God as righteousness rather than God imputing righteousness on Abram through faith. That is surely delusional to assume that everyone should just deep six all the scholars and translators that have said exactly what Paul said and instead ought to believe James Tabor's Revised Version.
A number of things you overlook:
In Genesis fifteen, It was the Word of the Lord (Davar/Logos) that came to Abram and took him outside. That in itself qualifies as a Theophany or even a Christophany. A mere vision doesn't do that.
The Gospel aspect of this is also expounded on by Paul in Galatians three.
Some translations say, And he (Abram) believed IN the Lord, and it was counted unto him as righteousness. How does Abram count it unto the Lord as righteousness. That would surely be a egotistical thing for Abe to consider of God. That is a ridiculous statement. Also Believe IN the Lord which implies that Abe is believing in the Lord. Bottom Line The Word/Logos is the Christian Gospel. (Acts 16:31)
Speaking of Context, the whole of Genesis fifteen is God establishing a Covenant with Abram, who wasn't Jewish based on God alone. Not a covenant where each has to do something to complete the transaction.
"17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that PASSED BETWEEN THOSE PIECES.
18 In the same day THE LORD MADE A COVENANT WITH ABRAM, saying, Unto thy seed (Singular-Gal. 3:16-18) have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (Genesis 15)
This is what Faith is about. The Seed is Christ NOT Israel. (Gal. 3:16-18)
The River of Egypt/Jordan stretches from the spring equinox to the autumn equinox (River Euphrates.
You'll never understand faith till you understand how the simulation multiverse was built, and who the chief architect really was/is/will be. Once you break the first commandment, even through ignorance, you're fair game for the adversary's minions
🤣🤣
Genesis 15:6 KJV
6)"And he (Abraham) believed in the Lord (Yeh Ho Vah) ; and he (Abraham) counted it to him (Yeh Ho VaH) for righteousness" - Yeh Ho VaH made a promise to Abraham and Abraham counted that promise as an act of righteousness
It's almost as if Paul didn't think that any of us would keep reading until we get to this :
Genesis 26:5 KJV
5)"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"
Then there's James The Just , you'd almost think that he was directing this straight at Paul , naw , couldn't be .... :
James 2:20-24 KJV
20)"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21)Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22)Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23)And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24)Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." -
I'm not sure exactly what's going on here because James would definitely have known that it was Abraham that counted the promise made to him as an act of righteousness by Yeh Ho VaH , perhaps James was using the same context that Paul used so that we could see that he was rebuking Paul ??? The other thing is that we know from whatever few quotes we have of the original followers of Yeshua (The Ebionites) , that they were vegetarians and spoke out against the animal sacrifices , so I'm not too sure why James would have used the reference of Abraham and Isaac , a human sacrifice , which is even worse than an animal sacrifice , unless again , he was trying to point to Paul because the biggest part of Paul's "gospel" is the death , burial and resurrection of Yeshua , a human sacrifice , i don't know , just a speculation on my part .
And ..... it looks as though Paul was wrong again !!!! :
Exodus 23:7 KJV
7)"Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked (ungodly) ."
Proverbs 17:15 KJV
15)"He that justifieth the wicked (ungodly) , and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”
@jamestabor_on_te-legra-m ???? What do mean by "look up above and let's discuss" ? I tried to answer before where you said the same thing but I got no response . Do you have a problem with what I wrote ?
Paul conveniently interprets scripture to justify his own importance, and the importance of his mission to the Gentiles. Like Jesus (or so Paul would have us believe), Paul it out to save the world.
Saul the Spinner.
Well, Paul could have had a "vision" in which Jesus told him to go the Gentiles (nations) to save them from the wrath to come. And if Paul truly believed in that vision, then that might explain his behavior. I would put it down to schizophrenia myself. Voices in his head. The ancients would have called it possession by a spirit, holy or otherwise -- Mark 3:21-22 (scribes-teachers of the Law came down from James to Antioch, of course, Gal 2:11-13). Mark loved parable. (cf. Acts 26:24).
1. The gospel of Matthew, especially the unromanized Hebrew Matthew of Shem-Tob, as likely copied from a Jewish record for a debate and was re discovered and translated by George Howard. Evidence shows it is altered, but not Romanized as much as our Greek based Matthew. This is the closest I've found available today for the teachings of Jesus (Joshua) that was the sole record of authority for over 200 years after Jesus. The next best account is the Matthew in the "Aramaic English New Testament" by Andrew Roth. Paul was of little concern since everyone abandoned following him in his own lifetime - see 2 Timothy 4:19 - no one continued to believe or follow Paul thereafter? Those were his words - not mine! Records have been found that he was noted as a liar. That is a different study that others have well documented, such as Douglas DelTondo, in "Jesus Words' Only." My focus is on Matthew's record because that is the one book of authority in the first two centuries for the followers of Jesus. It was written like a textbook to know what Jesus had taught his disciples, which was to inform all future disciples by their firsthand testimony of him.
2. The records of the Covenant match the teachings of Jesus. This was noted before translations of the Shapira scrolls came out in 2021, mainly in "The Valediction of Moses" (V) by Idan Dershowitz. I have been digesting my observations in "V" and the gospel of Matthew for a few years now, and to sum it up: Jesus was teaching the Standards given by God in the original Sinai Covenant as no other prophet in the history of Israel! Jesus was "putting legs" to the words of God. I believe this is why the teachings of Jesus have drawn so much admiration for thousands of years - and the teachings of Jesus reflect the Covenant Standards of God so closely that we would have to be blinded to not see their alignments. From my perspective, this is modern proof that what Jesus taught was directly inspired by Elohim! Jesus taught the truth - and it was Judaism who had altered the Covenant Words of God about 1000 years before him!
3. Those of Elohim - the Father in heaven - must use His Instructions to determine who He said we must hear, and who He said we must ignore. Isaiah summed it up as "If they speak not according to the Law and the Testimony, there is no light in them." God summed it up in our records of Deuteronomy 4, 12, 13 and 18.
4. If someone works miracles, and/or gives true prophecy - if they teach a different god, or if they teach against His Sabbath, or they teach against any of the Decrees, Blessings, or Curses - Elohim said we must ignore them. Most everyone is deceived by altered scriptures, most everyone of strong belief or faith has relied heavily upon false testimony, to the point of rejecting the spoken and written words of Elohim, the prophets, and That Prophet - Jesus. This is written with the intent to free all mankind from lies taught in the name of God - be they from Paul or Jewish Rabbinical lore. Don't be ashamed for not having realized we've been lied to - God forgives when we repent to do His will indeed. The curse is to falsely testify in His name - and He desires no one perish. (Ezekiel 18)
5. Jesus taught to dig down to the bedrock to build your house upon it, so the storms would not cause it to fall. The storms are here. Anchor yourself to the Rock! When you understand Jesus, you will also know God as never before, and you will gain an entirely new appreciation and understanding from the Psalms. There is complete harmony between the words of God, the teachings of Jesus, the Psalms and the Prophets. This is primary proof Rome and Judaism gave us bad records. In the Romans review comments you may note differing names for Jesus - Yeshua, Y'shua, Yehoshua, Joshua, or Joshua 2.
I think having the faith is also in turn going to cause one to follow the commands. How could one say they have the faith in Jesus's salvation while also 'living like the devil'? I believe when someone does put their faith in Jesus, the Spirit comes in to change their heart.
'Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.' 2 Corinthians 5:17
I did actually go and read the list of the 613 Torah again last night after your video from yesterday. I realize that, generally speaking, the majority of Christians already do follow these by default because they fall under 'love your neighbor'. Don't harm, cheat, lie to or steal from anybody. Many of them are instructions for the temple, sacrifices, livestock and crops.
I guess that's why there's such a big argument about eating unclean foods or keeping the feast days. There isn't much else that a typical Christian could add to their lifestyle in the present day.
Can you demonstrate how Christian’s unknowingly follow the 613 laws? Idolatry would be a big one that they wouldn’t follow since they raised Jesus to godhood and the dietary restrictions have not been followed either. So in which way do they follow the laws?
@@mugikuyu9403 Did you read my comment before replying? I already said that, generally speaking, a Christian's character should follow most of the Torah by default already because much of it falls under loving your neighbor. These being the Torah that can still be followed in 2024.
There is no longer a temple and I shop at a grocery store. I give a monetary tithe every month. What could be added to my lifestyle besides dietary restrictions and keeping feast days?
As for the age-old debate over Jesus/Yahushua's deity, I certainly believe He is one of the three persons composing Elohim.
@@WaffleDragon It’s one thing to say that Christian’s follow the law by default, it’s another thing to explain how. How exactly do they follow the law? I’m asking for a simple demonstration. State a few of the 613 laws and then explain how Christian’s meet that law in their day to day life. It’s utterly irrelevant whether you believe that all the law falls under “love your neighbor” since it also has a practical side. So all I’m asking for is a demonstration of how that manifests itself.
@@WaffleDragon the fact you can’t simply answer the question indicates to me that you know you’re lying to yourself.
@@mugikuyu9403 I apologize. I didn't mean to apparently make you angry with my reply. I guess my point was that a lot of the things listed would be fulfilled by not harming or being dishonest to anyone. I was reading the list on Wikipedia.
I'm guessing by your word choice that you must be a practicing Jew? So, I guess you follow the Torah completely except for the temple practices and sacrifices because there is no more temple? Do you follow the Talmud as well?
I’m first!
🌈🎊🌟🍰🎂🍭🎉🏆
I’m a Christian but it doesn’t take any faith to believe God when He appears in all His glory and tells you something to your face.
Exodus 33:20
But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”
A Christophany.
When anyone read sincerely The Bible, The Qur'an and history of early Christianity [Messianic Judaism] despite being deprived of manuscripts from them will be inclined towards Islam.
And majority of converts to Islam influenced by this knowledge because through this knowledge they know the doctrine of Gentile Christianity is far away from Jesus's fundamental teachings present in new testament.
You have to be kidding me! Just by saying that you believe in a god, it then resovles you of any sin you had commited or will commit? Thats crazy.
Great video there are many mistranslated passages from the old testament done by Paul and Mathew they say it's because they are quoting the septuagint but they should go to the bibical hebrew.
Your missing the point here. Paul did read the Hebrew version. He is giving an interpretation as it was common to do among Jewish teachers. In Judaism there are several explanations on one and the same subject possible . Matthew is a totally different discussion.
@@antonius3745 Thans for the info I guess you can make the scripture say whatever you want but I still say Paul who was a jew really misquotes or makes up scripture.
@@trabob4438 You can think that of course, but that is not what Tabor is telling here. There is no one and only explanation of Scripture. To say that is a typical Christian approach.
@@antonius3745 I guess that is why there is so many denominations of christanity.
@@trabob4438 exactly
My Gospel
Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 16:25
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
By the grace God has given me, I LAID A FOUNDATION as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11For NO ONE CAN LAY A FOUNDATION other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
JESUS, THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW???
Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Faith according to the Hebrew Bible: to have confidence and trust God to fulfill his promises.
Faith according to Paul: believe Jesus was resurrected by God from the dead and in turn God imputes the righteousness of Jesus to the believer and conversely imputes the sins of the believer to Jesus.
That’s not a mistranslation by Paul as much as it is the product of warped mind the result of too much book readings and great imagination.
Festus had it right in Acts 26:
But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen-that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.” At this point Festus interrupted Paul’s defense. “You are out of your mind, Paul!” he shouted. _“Your great learning is driving you insane.”_ “I am not insane, most excellent Festus,” Paul replied. “What I am saying is true and reasonable.
I beg to differ Saul.
Paul is pretty clear we have to have faith in the one God of Israel (1 Corinthians 8:6, Romans 1:9, Romans 11:36) and that we, personally, must live righteously: Romans 2:4. Romans 2:6-10, Romans 13:8-9, Romans 6:1-13, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 2 Corinthians 9:6-9, Romans 12:9-21, 2 Corinthians 12:21, 1 Corinthians 6:18, 1 Corinthians 10:14, 1 Corinthians 10:20-21.
Dont be a devil
Paul is simply agreeing with Genesis 15:3 that righteousness is aquired by faith. He hasn't mistranslated the passage at all.
2 Peter 1:20 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
You should actually read the Bible if you’re going to “teach”.
If you are reading from the Anglican sanctioned King James Version, funded by the Crown, you really are ignorant.
Paul did not miss understand he knew excactly what he was saying
Is your comment a joke😅
I agree. When I left my first husband, I could not go to church anymore, because he was there and I was pretty much the outcast. I began reading only the teachings of Christ, and I was made aware of how the teachings of Paul do not line up with the teachings of Jesus. The evangelical Christians put too much emphasis on the Letters of Paul and not enough on the actual teachings of Christ. It changed my life profoundly and deepened my faith in God.
Paul missed up the message of all prophets and jesus himself.
Doctor can you do a series of theology concepts that Paul he Redefined it..
Rabbi Tovia Singer might suggest Paul wasn't making a mistake, that it was a conscious manipulation. Just throwing that out there. Paul seemed pretty smart to me, not one to make a silly mistake, but one who understands the slipperiness of words.
I struggle with Paul and all his mysticism. Rather than let it consume me I just set it aside and I go back to Psalm 103
Singer is a l!ar and polemicist. Targum Neofiti, a Jewish translation, renders the verse syntactically the same as St. Paul and the Septuagint, as does the Peshitta (another Jewish translation).
James you knocked the central point of this matter, like a baseball swing on Mark McGuires best day. Good job. I’m gonna bug Joshua to give me one of those collaboradoodles and make that dinner happen, bc I’d love to chat with you. 😂
For anyone just broaching this discussion Dr Tabor speaks on in this video, I can zoom u past a heap of theological head scratching if u remember this: This is the chief dichotomy between Jesus and the Nazarene/Ebionite movement and the Roman state [that had since Antiochus, also captured the Judean leadership, land, people, text, and cultural identity and mostly terraformed it into Hellenistic syncretism of all the neighboring pagan lands, centuries before Jesus steps on the scene]. That is: the path to justification - Yahweh/Yahshua’s way or “The Chuch/State” way. The refined way of the messiah (pointing back to a pure Torah pure tongue) or the leavened way of the Pharisee, overseen by the Sadducee, Herodian, and Roman state that was popular in 1st century Palestine.
The state/church/bank was worried about Jesus’ movement (away from the pagan animal sacrifice system) and it was messin’ up Romes money…. Bc it was messin up the temples money that paid up the chain… and thus it had to be stopped. Paul was the agent to stop it.
Paul is the thread in the sweater to pull, and just really scrutinize the difference in Paul vs (literally everyone else in the entire book) on his tone towards Torah, central message as it relates to foundational themes like salvation/justification… critical pitfalls like meat sacrificed to idols - protip: it was all sacrificed to idols, even the one Jesus drove the animals out of…. They had long since shoehorned in what they legitimized as Yah asking for blood, just like all the pagan deities, but somehow the bull wasn’t squirming or thrashing or pooping up the temple bc it was for YHWH. This was a long ingrained cult within the priesthood operation that almost every prophet since Jeremiah 8:8 era had something to say against (not the least of which is Amos 5:25 and Jeremiah 7:22).
Paul was a tool his family used to bring that money back into the fold. And it worked like a charm.
Does it really make since if Paul was trained by Gamaliel that he would reference only Greek people and Greek texts, never quote Jesus at all really, minus a thing all judeans of that era knew… or that he would misconstrue so many references to Torah or say things that juuuuust so happened to sanction meat eating to idols (as all meat was purchased from a temple, and the Nazarenes were famously vegetarian), which got the money flowing again… and also just so happened to get people aligned with the concept of child sacrifice from a God that always only ever spoke vehemently against child sacrifice? I mean, does that make sense?
Does it make any more sense that if Paul were truly to have been blinded by Jesus and then disappeared for however long, to transform from sinner into self-appointed apostle - completely anathema to his Roman family’s religion… that because in fact he was Herod’s nephew, admittedly of the Roman ilk, Roman citizen, pen pals with Nero’s scribe Seneca, appeals to the Caesar Nero the famous Christian killer himself to get him out of a jam Saul of Tarsus (in Arabia, where the Herodians lived) … that instead of kill him on the spot and burn everything he wrote… his Herodian family instead placed him on such a high pedestal in a way that he got more words than anyone else in a book about Hebrews, descendants of a nation state they captured and enslaved and disagreed with religiously?
Ima just leave that there, and say this final thing: Paul is the one that ain’t like the others, and when you challenge that idea with and open mind and heart, time and research… it becomes crystal clear why his Latin/Roman name is a diminutive linguistic form of the term “the least” and his Hebrew name Sha’ul is spelled in the ancient vowel-less form, identical to the word She’ol, aka, the grave. It’s almost as if there’s layers to this…
My take is that Abraham never had faith. He was able to talk to God face to face, and that is the very opposite of faith.
Is justification based on faith in the blood of Jesus for your sins 1:17 ???
Gen. 15:6 Faith includes action based on trust. What did Abraham do? He no longer pursued the idea of Eliezar as his heir. *He waited* for the promise to be fulfilled. That God accounted to him as righteousness.
BTW saying that David did not believe in the blood of Christ is anachronistic. He believed/trusted in the mercy of God. As did the man in Jesus' parable who asked for God's mercy in contrast to the religious elite who trusted in his righteousness.
I don't think Paul is misreading the text at all. He understands that faith is a bigger concept that the narrow way it is used in some circles today and as Dr. Tabor using it, which is that bare belief without acting in accordance with that belief.
RE: translation of Gen. 15:6. Of course, the Lord is righteous. But I don't think the grammar or the context indicates that is what Gen. 15:6 says. The "he accounted it to him for righteousness" is most logically that Yahweh accounted it to Abraham as righteousness. To switch it around undermines Paul's argument and assumes that Paul misunderstood Gen. 15:6. That seems very unlikely. Paul was a native Hebrew speaker and was well acquainted with the passage he quotes.
Paul is contrasting the idea the Jews of his day were following. That idea was that mere obedience to the law was what God accepts as righteousness (See Rom. 10) with trust in God's mercy and especially his mercy through Jesus.
That faith is, however, not bare faith. It is faith that results in obedience and is obviously the outflow of humility that does not see oneself as righteous and in need of mercy.
Informative, interesting and enjoyable as ever. From this and the previous video, looks as though Paul is in some trouble, though! Looking at the context in which he was writing, presumably he was anxious to persuade (“sell”) his views to his audience?
You can say that again! And that’s putting it lightly. IMO, Paul was very allegiant to his family (the Herodians) and their main MO was shutting down this sectarian Nazarene Jesus movement.
It’s a “once you see it you can’t unsee it” type thing.
Jesus's parable of the two men praying in the temple is a good example of justification by faith.
The Pharisee's perspective is that he thinks of himself as keeping the commandments. Therefore, he considers himself as righteous, thanks God for this fact,
and allows himself to judge the sinner who prays at the back of the temple.
Paul's perspective on the parable would be the following: The Pharisee, although surely making a great effort of keeping the many prescriptions of the Judaic law, for sure have sinned somewhere in the process and this makes him unworthy to be accounted as righteous. Because he wasn't keeping all the law or wasn't keeping it always without exceptions, he needs God's forgiveness. This means, if God counts him as righteous, it's not due to the following of the law but by God's grace. For St. Paul, one of the very important things is to keep the God's temple in our body unstained. Being proud, judging the others and being self-righteous is in Paul's eyes unholy and sinful. The Pharisee isn't even aware of the sin of pride he is committing (and taking a place in the front of the temple is a visible sign of this pride) and he is possibly not aware of his other sins.
The tax collector's perspective is that of faith - he knows he is a sinner. He knows, he isn't worthy to be counted as righteous. He regrets and puts his hope, trust and faith in God and in His mercy.
Mr. Tabor said there was no offering, just a prayer of a sinner.
Yet it was an offering pleasing to God:
"My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise."(Psalm 51:17)
"But this is the one to whom I will look:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit
and trembles at my word."(Isaiah 66:2).
Talbot seems right in what concerns the meaning of the Old Testament texts quoted by Paul - but he is completely wrong in that he reads Paul as if Paul sustained the theology that protestants project onto Paul... Talbot should be sensible enough not to confuse Paul and John Calvin.... in Romans, Paul is merely saying that one becomes righteous (truly righteous, with a circumcised heart) insofar he believes in the saving initiative God that accomplished through Christ - that has nothing to do with the protestant inventions of forensic justification and imputed righteousness...
What Paul emphasizes with the utmost rigor: We do not recommend ourselves to Messiah by following self-chosen, however derived from the Torah, sets of rules. We approach God by trusting his goodness before our own and see how we honor him and gain Messiah.
Paul was much much greater than what the churches have made of him. Their Augustines and Luthers got him very wrong.
I think paul understands this issue perfectly.,the problem is our interpretation of Paul. Also how do we know what Paul exactly means by the word ‘works’.
This is not the bedrock of evangelical orthodox christianity. Paul are just trying to make point. These lletters are written 16 years before Jesus died.
If you claim to have faith then you believe what God said. That means you must DO what he commanded..
Faith without works is dead faith and profits nothing.
Where does Christ through Paul teach that ?
Verses please.
Works without righteousness is merely identity politics and only profits an elite.
Works without righteousness is merely identity politics and only profits an elite.
And works without righteousness is merely identity politics.
@@JohnDoe-bm8on Where does Christ through Paul teach JUSTIFICATION by works.
Show the verses that confirm your statement.
Protestants say "we are saved by faith alone" which is wrong...
Catholics say "we are saved by faith plus works" which is wrong...
Paul said we are saved by grace, accessed by faith, to then do good works"
Grace a gift from God
accessed by faith, not just some thought but evidenced by our obedience (Abraham believed God who had said go, before even knowing where Abraham left Ur, and that was faith evidenced by action)
finally we are saved to good works, Torah following (last verse of Romans3), saved to good works not saved because of our good works (filthy rags)...
as James said, show me your faith is not just belief by your actions ❤
you misquote Paul AND Genesis by leaving out Gen12:4 "So Avram departed..." (faith in action accredited to Avraham as righteousness... God said go, and before God even said where, Avram left his country)
The slave born in Abraham's house was not Ishmael. Ishmael was conceived in the chapter after the Genesis verse quoted by Paul.
Ishmael and Isaac, are the same as John the Baptist and Jesus. They are all born at the solstices.
Isn't it correct that Abraham told YaH that he been given NO son (because Ishmael had not been born yet) and he was asking YaH to give the blessing of the Firstborn son to his servant Eleazar.
Amazingly, baby Zeus became baby Abraham.
Beautifully explained
Pamela Eisenbaum in her book: Paul was no Christian, also points to a wrong translation of the Greek. Paul is not talking about the faith in Jesus but the faith of Jesus. That makes a gigantic difference. Secondly she shows without doubt that the Justification is not the core issue for Paul. Therefore the doctrine of righteousness or justification is Augustine/Lutheran interpretation. it is not Paul who did misread it is Augustine.
And as a Dutch philosopher and paleologist Charles Vergeer, has proofed, the texts of Romans are mostly redacted after Paul's death.
In Genesis 15:6 wouldn't the word believe in Hebrew be shema? Hear and obey?? I could be wrong. Just asking.
Did Dr. Tabor come by this discrepancy by examining the Masoretic text? Is Genesis 15:6 in the Masoretic different from the Septuagint text, which is a Greek translation? If it is different, did the Septuagint mistranslate Genesis 15:6? Finally, was it likely that Paul quoted from the Septuagint? If so, did he quote the Septuagint correctly?
Which “Septuagint”? Two centuries later, Origen had four Greek translations calling themselves “Septuagint”. We have no 1st Century witness texts, let alone 3rd Century BCE texts, that can tell you what the actual LXX translation said.
@@JCSalomon My understanding (which is next to nothing) is that the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek some time before the first century. Was Paul quoting from this Greek translation (Septuagint) or from the original Hebrew? Can we answer the questions I posed above based on the texts we have today?
@@Brad4083, the first translation of the Pentateuch was mid-3rd Century BCE. But we don’t have texts that old to know whether Paul was quoting them-the “Septuagint” we have today was preserved only by the Church, and might have been tweaked to match Paul.
Supposedly, Paul was a student of Rabban Gamliel. If that were true, he’d _at least_ be capable of reading the Hebrew and translating it on the fly, and so the mistranslation could not be Innocent.
In Gen.15 YHWH tells Avraham to look up and count the stars and then it states that Avraham believed and it was counted unto as righteousness. I believe that what Avraham was witnessing in the stars was the Mazzaroth and that in the constellations he was shown a message that he believed.
@@JCSalomon Thanks. I think that answers my questions. In my very limited search of the internet, I found that the Hebrew meaning of Genesis 15:6 is ambiguous, at least when it comes to translating it into English. For now, I have to go with the standard interpretation of this verse, instead of Dr. Tabor's, because it makes more sense.
I'm seeing the difference between a capital H and a lower case h, and reading it two ways.
The just shall live by His Faith!!!
Follow the words of Jesus. Him and Him alone. That should be enough
What did Christ through Paul teach ?
You & I are JUSTIFIED/saved by faith or are works also required ?
Which of the hundreds of interpretations should I use?
James That is one amazing reinterpretation of the text. Not only don't you tell us where you got your new translation from, there is no translation out there that I have read that would support your view that Abram was looking at God as righteousness rather than God imputing righteousness on Abram through faith. That is surely delusional to assume that everyone should just deep six all the scholars and translators that have said exactly what Paul said and instead ought to believe James Tabor's Revised Version.
A number of things you overlook:
In Genesis fifteen, It was the Word of the Lord (Davar/Logos) that came to Abram and took him outside. That in itself qualifies as a Theophany or even a Christophany. A mere vision doesn't do that.
The Gospel aspect of this is also expounded on by Paul in Galatians three.
Some translations say, And he (Abram) believed IN the Lord, and it was counted unto him as righteousness. How does Abram count it unto the Lord as righteousness. That would surely be a egotistical thing for Abe to consider of God. That is a ridiculous statement. Also Believe IN the Lord which implies that Abe is believing in the Lord. Bottom Line The Word/Logos is the Christian Gospel. (Acts 16:31)
Speaking of Context, the whole of Genesis fifteen is God establishing a Covenant with Abram, who wasn't Jewish based on God alone. Not a covenant where each has to do something to complete the transaction.
"17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that PASSED BETWEEN THOSE PIECES.
18 In the same day THE LORD MADE A COVENANT WITH ABRAM, saying, Unto thy seed (Singular-Gal. 3:16-18) have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (Genesis 15)
This is what Faith is about. The Seed is Christ NOT Israel. (Gal. 3:16-18)
It's like Paul was reading the old testament through Christianity eyes
If the OT is part of the revelation of God, then it would be natural for Paul to see Christ in the OT as He is the ultimate revelation of God.
I see no contradictions in Paul's usage of the verses. It seems a case of splitting hairs to me.
Minor correction: it was not Ishmael that Abraham (Abram, at the time) thought would be his heir but “Damesek Eliezer” (the damascene? Eliezer).
1 Timothy 1:4 KJV
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Try reading the Bible for once.
That’s an odd response, @@ToothOfTheLion, to a comment based on reading the Bible and noting where (in small part, and not detracting from the overall point) Dr Tabor erred.
@@JCSalomon(you're being pedantic, which is precisely what that section is in reference to ..)
@@JCSalomon LOL you people crack me up.
Since you're talking about (mis)translations, have you an opinion on "Elohim" and how it is plural, though often translated into the singular? Basically, the gods became the singular God, "Yahweh".
Try reading the Bible.
@@ToothOfTheLion Try thinking.
@@chrimony Oh come on, what a predictable reply. The blinded sheep telling me to think.
@@ToothOfTheLion Projection.
@@chrimony Hypocrisy.
Finally, Dr. Tabor you are destroying the false teachings of Paul. I can never thank you enough. Why else would Jesus and his cousin John the Baptist have done what they did and how they did it? Otherwise, they would be in absolute violation of the admonition of Moses in Deuteronomy against false prophets.
This explanation regarding Abram is based on piety and humility before Adonoi makes everything fall into the proper place.
The problem is that Christianity has anchored its identity onto Paul. That is a perverse miscarriage of justice
Paul reveals the bhakti yoga path to those who have become acquainted with karma yoga as expressed by author of Habakuk.
Thank you Dr. James for another eye opening revelation but again i am just kindly saying before we be to quick to say paul's mistake i think its of paramount importance to take into account of culture and understanding of the people of that time, all i am saying is Paul knew his aundience and so when he was speaking he knew they would understand him in the way it should be understood ( the right way) but for a modern day reader of today like me with little understanding of the culture of old and their ways would think paul was intentionally either trying to mislead or may be he himself failed to understand what he was saying but lets not forget that these men of God of that time spoke and acted according to The Power of The Holy Spirit and not entirely their own wisdom.
And That is why The Holy Spirit is rising soldiers and servants like you Dr. James to help the modern day reader of today to enter into the understanding of the old because much has been lost in translation like you say and much has been mis-understood.