@@JellyNightSquid94 >12 universes >12 hypothetical infinite possibilities Toriyama: let's immediately limit the universes and make the strongest fighters fight so no one has interest in these universes outside of these characters
I loved the idea of how Toppo thought Goku was a villain because it was his idea of starting the tournament of power which put the safety of all the universes in jeopardy, just to fill Goku’s love of fighting. That was an intriguing concept they could’ve explored, how Goku’s hubris is putting innocents in danger, but they threw it away by saying “actually Zeno was going to destroy them anyway so Goku really saved the universes by giving everyone a fighting chance.” I thought that was a cheap scapegoat.
I'm ngl i can't remember much, but i thought xeno was gonna destroy alot of the universes and TOP idea from goku. kinda preserved them, thou i could be off the mark because its been a long while
Unless I'm just misremembering something, I find it stupid that Goku was scolded for just suggesting a tournament and then it was decided, "We kill the losers!"
@@valydendor4472 xeno had already intended to just erase the universes included in TOP but yeah it felt kinda stupid imo that they would destroy them for not being strong enough
Definitely was a cheap a scapegoat and such bullshit, it’s like the writers were like “wait the fans are right that’s bad for Gokus character so let’s just say this instead” so lazy and shit writing.
The worst thing they did to Picollo is the fact that they made him a freaking narrator! Everything that happens picollo has to tell us exactly what happened. “He’s changed, he’s dropped from his god form to a mere super saiyan, yes, thank you for the information we JUST SAW
Well I hate how in the movie shenron gave Piccolo a new transformation on top of his first new form(which he actually earned through training) like what. I think it was said in DBZ only porunga can make those kinds of wishes. Also Gohans form was made by other creators (I know that ssj original design was basically Beast Gohan)but it was never put on screen until El Blanco was a thing and AF expanded Gohans form with ssj6(I know Akira Toriyama approved and the creator is now making Super) Hell Granolah arc is just baby arc but not an evil Saiyan, and Morro arc is cell saga. The whole super series is a big what if mainly TOP. BOG was the only movie and arc I liked, Frieza coming back was cool, but Vegeta should have won. Hit was the only thing I liked in U6 arc and I guess there being more Saiyan's including female. Goku black should have been Gohan Black(both series and manga are good) Frieza should have been with cell for TOP and replace Tien. Broly is just an amalgamation of DBZ Broly and Fusion Reborn.Side Note: ssj god should have been Goku's limit until UI ssj Blue just felt like a waste of a form, but kaioken blue was dope, but not as dope as ssj God UI. Goku's avatar form is just a susanoo from Naruto.
Super is shit but as a 29 years old who is not into anime anymore I would still defend Orange piccolo. It’s his dragon and it was a form that Piccolo probably could have reached later on but Shenron threw him a little extra. Also we needed a new Namekian form as it has lately been all about freaking Saiyans.
I don't even know why they introduced the back tingly concept for super saiyan. Super saiyan was ALWAYS about the inner anger and frustration that a saiyan felt. The aura was a bright yellow kinda like a flame and the gold hair represented the ascension that the saiyan went through. I can't believe they spat on probably the most iconic form of dragon ball.
You know, if they had written the tournament of power in a way that they had 3-4 months to prepare(I give her 3-4 months cuz she's super strong in base, so it's ok if it's 3-4 months only,even if she's not a martial arts master like goku) then they could have cabba try to enrage caulifla, it fails as quickly as it did in the actual show, then explain to her that she has to concentrate ki on her back in a very specific way. Caulifla sits down in a meditating potision and concentrates ki on her back for like, a month, like fricking budda(so the authors could empathize on the Buddhism reference they made with the ki in the back thing), thus being the first known saiyan to unlock ssj with meditation alone(which would be because she's a genius and all) and the rest of the months training to master ssj and unlock ssj2(since she's already super strong and is a genius, it kinda makes sense). I would love that. There were MANY plot points in super were I thought "wow this is such a cool idea that is done very horribly". Trust me, many times. It's like they found gold and smeared it in crap.
If anything i thought the back tingles was a fine way to explain how to regularly transform...after a saiyan had already unlocked the form. But caulifla didn't have it unlocked yet so it feels like an ass pull. Especially since we were told that universe's saiyans are naturally way stronger than universe 7's. It pisses me off the manga skips over this like that's a better alternative. Super has a major problem with asspulling characters powers for no reason. Why can't characters train under harsh conditions off screen for a while? Goku and vegeta get fair treatment in that regard but even then the writers fuck it up because tien, buu, goten, trunks, piccolo etc get shit on while trunks, 17, frieza and broly get major ass pulls.
I especially love how Jiren was built up to be the final boss of the massively hyped TOP arc and the only backstory we got for him was "his family was killed by an evildoer"
@Ivore yeah, talk about a bad design. I never got the hype train, but I heard people talking about "Jiren" at the time. Thing is, the only image I'd seen of any villain was Hit, and for very long I thought he was that "Jiren" guy. Then I got to actually see Jiren and I would prefer if my initial misunderstanding was actually correct the whole time, Hit has a way cooler design.
The fact that Goten and Trunks look exactly like they did in Buu Saga if not younger is actually REALLY insulting. To give you a comparison, Kid Trunks is at the same age as Future Trunks when Future Gohan died. Please, just take a moment to compare Young Future Trunks from the Future Trunks Special with Super's Kid Trunks. It's ridiculous.
BS dude..super deserves way more credit than that. UI in EP 109-110 can be considered top 10 dragon ball moments of all time. The Goku black arc, the new characters introduced..you obviously did not watch it
@@shaochiavang actually I did, I’ve watched the whole show and ultra instinct is just another shell to sell toys like every other transformation in super (blue, trunks ss rage, rose, and instinct)
@@Jose-st3fq if you watch the entire DBS series then how can you say it was better. That's insane. GT had their moments but in no way had the story arc that the Goku black or TOP had. On top of that DBS introduced new well written characters such as beerus, whis, jiren and the gods of the other universe which has not even been explored yet. Dbs wasn't this great show but it wassnt as bad as you make it to be. EP 109-110 broke the site cuz so much people were trying to stream it. Many things in DBS can also be considered top moments in the dragon ball world also and that's a long list to beat out spots for.
@@shaochiavang doesn’t mean I’m a gt super fan but you’ll get on ur knees to pleasure Toei for making a cash grab show that’s a disgrace to the og dragon ball and dragon ball z run
My biggest problem with super is how they changed Goku. I understand that Goku is no Superman but it's not like that he only fights for the sake of fighting. In Dragon Ball Z, he had his loved ones in mind while training. Goku's perspective on life changed after training with Kami. From there on, he would only kill if it's the last resort. It's not just that he wants new training partners. I really loved how you saw Goku growing up as a naive boy living in the woods growing into a seasoned martial arts fighter
@@olofacosta3192 his emotional growth is league ahead of what he was in z. The god form is somewhat symbolic of thisgrowth. He no longer gains power through rage but control. In super He doesn’t react only physically with his opponents but emotionally and philosophically as well. The blue form and ui compliment this.. He knows buu has been reincarnated somewhere so his true arch is being a teacher one day.
pain fight was trrash becoz wen nagato destroyed the village he showed that strong villain energy but fighting naruto he was like let me remain like a scare crow like all naruto villains y didnt he used almighty push on naruto in the first place n than later died from a predictable small rasengan which was meters away 💀. lee vs gaara was a bs fight it was just about running fast aside of that lee lost the fight becoz of sand💀 even after being wayyyyyy faster than gaara than there naruto comes and defeats a stronger version of gaara without training his whole life this arc was definition of garrbage. Y didnt obito used his kamui against kakashi wasnt he fighting all the shinobi hours ago🤦♂️.naruto vs sasuke is the most shiitiest fight ever the whole fights didnt made sense base naruto was able to fight sasuke with sharingan n rennigan All the naruto fights ar nonsensical inlogical
I don't really care about dragon ball, but I have massive respect for someone who isn't afraid to come across as an asshole for asserting his points with confidence.
I just realized how insanely stupid it is that Gohan can apparently become not just as strong as he was but even stronger with basically a day's worth of training, yet he was able to let himself go so badly that he couldn't even handle regular SSJ. Not even one day, a single day within several years. He has a power to protect his world but he can't spare even few hours per year to keep it up. That's honestly more irresponsible than anything Goku has ever done and just plain lazy. Like imagine if you could become Eddie Hall strong by just visiting gym once per year and you couldn't bring yourself to do even that much. You'd have to be the biggest loser ever to not do that. I'm sure they didn't wanna potray Gohan to be that bad but that's what you get when you can't pick your lane and stay in it when it comes character's training speed.
The very fact that Gohan in like a days worth of training could spar with Goku highlights my other issue with Super, the power scaling sucks, whats the point of Goku and Vegeta constantly training to reach new heights just for others (Frieza, Gohan, 17, Caulifla etc) to reach the same heights with 1/1000000 of the amount of training
@@Lulu-ew7ohit’s not the writer it is the fans. Gohan was ment to replace Goku by Akira the writer’s will. However, DBZ was a manga designed for japanese boys. In Shonen Jump there were character popularity polls. Gohan was not popular enough among japanese boys so they brought back Goku. Gohan was ruined by the fans.
@@roberth4395yeah no you're both wrong it's toei. This is about money people nobody cares about your entertainment the entertainment you get is solely to make more money. They'll keep the story decent enough for it to keep going so they can sell more toys that's where the real money is why do you think Goku has numerous forms with different hair colors?They know they can get away with bad writing because most watchers are kids teens and idiots. People that mostly watch anime for fighting and transformation can barely analyze a story and they care even less so why would they up their writing? So yeah I guess you're partly right the fans are also at fault.
@@DCBiscuit Just like Toriyama you mean. The joke is that Toriyama just kinda forgot a lot of things along the way, such as the entire character of Launch.
@@Jane-oz7pp dude toriyama didn’t even make supers plot it was his brother that wanted to toriyama just made the manga as he didn’t care that much for the anime
Goku's arc was always having an enemy more powerful and dangerous than he could be expected to face, gaining a mentor that can help him best his enemy, then besting more enemies until he completely outgrew his old mentor and needed a new one. But by the Buu saga, he had already pretty much outgrown every mentor in the universe and the afterlife, beaten a nigh invincible intergalactic threat and made even his most devoted rival acknowledge his superiority. This leaves only two options for the character. One is basically what Toriyama wanted for him. Namely, to retire Goku from fighting and turn him into a mentor. With neither new teachers nor new rivals, all there is for him is to pass the torch to Uub. Let him get old and live vicariously through whatever pupils there may be who can keep up with his training. But no. The Dragon Ball franchise basically is the Goku franchise. If Gohan couldn't change that, Uub sure as hell couldn't. Goku can't be sidelined. So that leaves the second option -- just reset him. GT reset him by turning him back into a little kid whose other dragon balls. Super reset him by introducing literal gods and angels to act as his mentors and/or enemies and simultaneously undoing the better part of his nearly fifty years of experience. (Yeah, Goku has to be in his mid to late 40s in Super. Chew on that for a while.) Sadly, this makes Goku a rather lame character. He essentially stopped aging, changing or in any meaningful way even learning since his training on Yardrat. But here's one more problem with the Goku reset that is Dragon Ball Super. It's back to Muten Roshi preparing Goku for the big martial arts tournament. Only Whis is Roshi. And that makes Vegeta the new Krillin. Isn't that a depressing thought -- Vegeta being the new Krillin?
That was his arc post timeskip/Z. In Dragon Ball it was a bit different. Collecting a Dragon Ball, becoming a pupil to Master Roshi, entering a tournament, Jackie Chun (Roshi) entering to show Goku and Krillin that no matter how strong they are, there is always someone stronger, Red Ribbon Army which Roshi could have defeated but it was a fun adventure arc, another tournament where Goku gets to test his new skills, but Roshi's point beign proven by Goku being defeated yet again by Tenshinhan. Piccolo Daimao debut, Dragon Ball takes a 360, it becomes darker. First death, not of some randos but of Krillin and Roshi, Goku's family at that point. From that point onwards that's when the classic formula began. Arc 1 strong enemy. Arc 2 stronger enemy. Arc 3 even stronger enemy. Arc 4 super duper stronger enemy. It's fine tho, I liked the OG DB manga so much.
The big difference to me between Super and GT is that you can feel that GT was made by someone who genuinely enjoyed Dragonball and put effort into it but Super just feels hollow.
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 most of the time gt wasnt really good the only things that hoestly was really amazing was obviously ss4 it was a new unique transformation that fit goku and vegeta, the shadow dragons was an interesting concept sometimes it felt off but was still ok to good if im being honestly, the ending was the best thing from GT because it felt exactly like an ending it was emotional and it felt like the true end and yet an offscreen beginning fr the characters and the ones to come
I agree both of their ideas are intresting on their own (still I like gt's more) but the overall execution of them leaves so much to be desiredz they're quite underwhelming
@@jantheking7028 he loves Both Super and GT equally, he also expose the flaws of GT as well. In fact he is currently making a GT fan manga fixing the flaws of GT and making it into an interesting story. Watch his Dragon Ball GT: Redemption video and you’ll see.
@@jantheking7028 dude he said it himself that he loves both GT and Super equally. Who knows he might plan on making a Dragon Ball Super Redemption manga as well in the future.
I actually loved the search for the black star ball, it was like a grander scale of the early DB adventure episodes which I absolutely loved and still go back to from time to time. However, while I did like the concept of Pan at first, I just wished her character got proper development instead of always being a plot catalyst (we did see a bit of this during the dr miyuu part of the arc) and while not everyone is annoyed by power levels, when I watched GT, Goku saying Rildo is around the level of Buu while he was fighting him in his weakened, base kid form bothered me.
Also. I love how you used the original Bardok as an example of no safety net. You root so hard for him that entire movie knowing he's going to die but you can't help yourself and get crushed when it happens! That was so good!
The sad thing is that Dragon Ball has a lot of intriguing characters and stories they could explore but the creativity of the writers is not coming off on screen.... no imagination.
I'd rather watch a hand drawn Z Warriors series. Tien, Yamcha, krillin, protecting earth and innocent people. Have Goten in there and have an arc where he has to step up and save the planet while everyone else is far off. I honestly don't understand the lack of spin offs... if they are successful, you can incorporate cross series stories or bring them together for movie features.
I think Super Saiyan God should have been a goal post to reach throughout the series. Goku achieves god in the beginning as it happens. Then cant get it again without help from the other saiyans, so he and Vegeta strive to get it without help throughout the whole series. That way god power doesnt get undermined. They really backed themselves into a corner by having God power levels be so easily obtained.
@@austin31697 but it was though lol especially to the viewer. He's out training with whis and sh*t and, ope, well looky here, vegeta has God power already.
@@damondriver6363 intense training with Whis isn't easy. Vegeta spent hard work and time getting it, even if it was off screen. Goku made a wish and made saiyans give him the power Vegeta pushed himself to get it
@@OverlordAlastor "Even if it was off screen." Let me stop you right there, that means that it didn't take work. That's not how storytelling, or writing works.
Something I recently felt I really hated about Super is that there never seems to be a consequence or cost in anything hanging over an arc or a power ups. It all feels like its just an episodic easy arc that has no stakes to them. And fights feel very formulaic. Like at least the Cell saga had costs. Vegeta wanted to prove his potential so he let Cell become perfect. The cost of that was Cell being too strong for him and he took it. that they let the Androids wake up, because they wanted to meet the next challenge, but at the cost of being killed and the Earth being systemically destroyed so they trained in motivation for it. Also Fighting 19 and 20 had a risk of them using their ki, it getting absorbed by them. A cost, a risk. Or in the Buu arc. Vegeta wanted to fight Goku again because they never had a rematch post Super Saiyan, but that came at the risk of Buu. But Vegeta had no choice because Goku would only be there for a day then back to the dead. Vegeta risked Buu waking up for his fight but he only had one option to get it. He at a cost became evil to force Goku to fight him. At the cost of him killing people and then they fought at the cost of Buu's energy waking him up. There was at least always a cause, an effect and a risk in the plot of the arcs to keep them interesting, Thats what tension is. Super doesn't have that at all. Power ups have no cost, risk or consequence. In Z it was the Oozaru, the risk of losing your mind and the weakness of the tail being cut. Then with SSJ Goku risked losing control of his anger to it, when he yelled at Gohan. Freeza at 100% risked getting weaker because of body strain. In the Cell arc, SSJ grade 2 cost the Saiyans their speed for muscle if they couldn't figure out how to ascend instead of power up. SS2 Gohan got it but at the cost of him losing himself to his Saiyan instincts and arrogance in the power difference. In the Buu arc, Majin Vegeta had to fight back against Babidi's commands to keep his released mind and power. SS3 the cost of the strain due to it being difficult to do outside of the afterlife or another dimension which was consistent. Fusion had the cost of either getting it wrong, or running out of time from power usage. Potata (formally had a cost unique to it) where it was irreversable. Fighting Super Buu was a risk because he could just absorb you if he was losing. Kid Buu as well or he'd just blow up the planet at random. But in Super whats the cost of SS God? SSB? Hakai power? Ultra instinct? What are the risks, and consequences in the arcs? Nothing. Freeza especially can just asspull power ups too, just training for a few minutes a day. Its awful. What exactly makes any of these arcs interesting? Sure the TOP has the risk of getting deleted forever, but even that they just forfeited at the last minute because Zeno changed his mind.
The ONLY honest youtuber with a HONEST opinion of super and the current state of the DB franchise. Literally agreed entirely with every point made! Well done. You should be the one leading the writing for the show to be honest.
That guy Totally not Mark didn't seem like a huge fan and many others, don't know why you had to put ONLY in caps like no one else has done it before because I've seen plenty of them.
Imagine if staying calm to keep the blue/UI form was an actual challenge. And if they got too riled up, they'd lose the form until they calmed back down. The enemy might goad them and attack their friends. And you could have some internal struggles with them suppressing the rage they usually use to power up during fights. It might have actually felt like a unique thing rather than a generic power up.
EXACTLY. That’s never portrayed correctly in the show! It would be so interesting to see them accidentally fall out of the form if they can maintain their emotions or remain focused while in a fight.
Yeah they could use the form when raging but they wouldn’t be able to contain it nor use it at it’s fullest. The calm and tranquil will allow Goku and Vegeta to use SSB to it’s fullest.
It would also be an incredibly interesting twist on the original concept with Super Saiyan 1 and 2. Goku at first became far more violent and brutal when he transformed, and Gohan was even more extreme turning downright sadistic. Completely twisting that and having a form which works on the exact opposite rules would be really unique. It could also lead to good character stuff. You'd assume Vegeta would be worse at this for obvious reasons, but he spent 20 years with his empire dead and as a lackey to Frieza. He's got more control over himself than anyone else, or else he'd be dead. The lack of self-control is a response to the constant need for controlling himself, he just can't keep the mask on 24/7. Goku has no self-control at all. It would be really neat for Vegeta to actually be better with the best form because controlling empathy and compassion is his strong suit.
DBS just doesn’t have the high stakes and genuine moments that made the audience feel something. Too many power ups and I honestly hate SSB. I just didn’t like it.
Honestly, it’s not the power ups that doesn’t make sense. Goku is completely okay. it’s simply Toriyama making his other characters exponentially stronger over the sagas just to make them look tough for the plot. Take Android 17 for example when he was on par with SSB Goku. He wouldn’t of even stand a chance against SSJ 2 back in Z. This is the only problem i have with Super.
I think super shows whats wrong with a lot of anime in general. dumbing down of characters, constant gags, not funny jokes. just feels like a lot of this is just made for 11 and under.
As nonsensical as the arc was, I actually liked it..........until the ending. The final episode was an absolute disgrace. I'd be more willing to forgive Spirit Sword over whatever the hell happened there
@@premiumdude8353 real talk, him forgetting the senzu beans was bad enough but the evil containment wave part was horrible writing, how could he forget the seal for the rice container smh
The thing about Ribrienne... as a Magical Girl fan she was _extra_ annoying because she was meant to be an insult to Magical Girl characters- and she wasn't even a good mockery. She could have been done well as a parody- even a mean spirited one- and maybe even been funny, but they instead just wrote her to be as annoying as possible. It's like _Toriyama forgot_ that the series is meant to be fun, not annoying. And on top of that, *why would you create a character specifically to annoy fans, and then give them a solid, what, ten episodes of screentime?* I very nearly didn't bother finishing after her fourth time taking a spotlight.
To make the parody ironic, Toei owns Sailor Moon and Pretty Cure, so that means they made a joke that didn't quite work on a genre two out of four their most popular anime come from.
One of the problems is also the fandom. We all know it, most db "fans" only care about seeing new transformations and cool looking fights and will always call hype a rage scene no matter the context. They'll continue to ruin dragon ball because most fans dont even see the problem. They dont even know what was dragon ball to begin with
My issue with Super is that it doesn’t feel like it has stakes or suspense. In dragon ball z, we had the frieza saga which gave us the iconic super saiyan transformation but it was a journey to reach that point and one that was worth it. In Super, it just feels like generic anime in some parts and the way some of the other characters are treated is just sad.
In Dragon Ball Z, no character was left behind. Even in the Cell Saga, Yamcha, Tien, and even Chi-Chi contributed. But then you look at Super, and wonder where every other Z Fighter went. At this point, the only important ones are the Saiyans and Piccolo. And then there's the repeated bastardization and humiliation of one of the most memorable villains in anime, Frieza. Goku and Vegeta have gotten so powerful, that this once mighty threat is just a weekly "we have to deal with you, send you back to hell, and then repeat ad nauseam" comic book villain. That's honestly disheartening.
At least in Frieza saga and Cell Saga it had a lot stakes and suspense! At least they had to think of something in order to get the job done. In this tournament of power, there were so many problems that I lose count. I couldn't tell where is the ring out is at since they were like jumping on floating rocks. Can't they quickly repair it? It's so similar to the Cell games since Cell blow the ring up then they didn't have to worry about the ring anymore.
I miss when Goku was the underdog that put everything he had into fighting his opponents. Now he's grown into a guy who views everyone else as the underdog who have to "force" him to take a fight seriously, except even WHEN he brings out SSB, he holds back so much he's able to fight weaklings like Krillin without accidentally killing him. It's hard to tell a fight is serious when the main character is constantly underestimating his opponents because of how much his power has grown. In my opinion, SSG should have been the apex of Goku's power and the end of the entire franchise, fanbase be damned.
Thank you! Ssg should have been the end of all transformations. It would have been so clever, let enemies underestimate his looks only for goku to show that raw power. Plus it wouldn't be typical more muscles equals more strength, its thin and lean. And it could have made goku fight in a new way, being more calm and tactical. That would have made a smoother transition to ultra instinct (not the master version.) You can't even called it mastered ultra instinct because it's not even mastered. It should have just been omen, it would have made alot more sense, since gods of destruction can't master it, goku shouldn't have either. Ssg should have been the strongest transformation goku has and ultra instinct omen be his strongest technique.
@@leultrainstinct406 its hard to see super goku as an underdog when he doesn't grow and continues to lose and look like a rookie still despite having 40 years of experience, that's honestly sad.and no goku doesn't get help he gets saved by the gods and by bull shit writing.goku gets trashed down alot in super he obviously isn't holding back and checking out his opponents,if he is it ain't noticeable at all.SSJ4 and SSJ Blue are both fine tho
Let’s all remember it wasn’t goku that beat Cell it was Gohan and he needed the spirit bomb (which was the combined power of everyone in earth) to defeat Buu
@@leultrainstinct406 ur gonna forget ressurection f when goku stole the win from Vegeta, achieved the fancy schmancy forms to fight Beerus and Jiren first? Sure gt was also responsible for something similar but the goku winning formula wasn’t so prominent as it is today. And if ki control means spamming blue hair dye for no reason then it’s actually quite stupid. Like you don’t need to go ssgss in a base ball match or against arale
"Wasted potential" might as well be the name of the damn show. That's what sucks the most- that we see that potential for greatness and it gets thrown in the trash. Great video man 👌
They said the same thing about GT but at least GT had cool designs, most DBS transformations are lame recolors and even the new villain (Jiren) was the lamest design in all of Dragon Ball at least the Manga gave us Moro to make up for it. When I saw Jiren I knew Toriyama had given up and just wanted to be left alone, there's no way someone as talented as him would draw that, look at it and decide it should be the main villain. DBS never had a chance
I felt like the SSJ God form (with red hair) should’ve been Goku and Vegeta’s god forms for the entirety of super, up until Ultra Instinct. I felt like once we got the God form it was instantly replaced by Super Saiyan Blue (which in my opinion is the point in which I said there are too many transformations).
The thing about Future Trunks is that he would have jumped at the Super Saiyan God ritual. He was not someone ruled by his pride, and was always much more focused on getting the job done. It could have been a great contrast to the feelings Goku expresses during Battle of Gods. Suppose the reason he came back was not to beg for Goku and Vegita to come with him and fight his battles for him, but because he somehow learned about the ritual and came back to the main timeline because he knew there were enough Saiyans alive to perform the ritual in that timeline.
most comments on this video, usually stupid or annoying, but this i adore, this could legit be good and could've had some type of ssjrage afterwards and it make more sense as his hybrid version of ssjb
I remember the year, 2005 to be precise, when I was watching Goku ask everyone to lend him energy to defeat Kid Buu. I lifted my arms high and proudly on that day, cheering him on. Those were the days, Vegeta wasn't chasing Goku's power anymore and respected him, choosing to get stronger for himself and his loved ones.
Just like some star wars fans did with the sequels, I would gladly sign a petition to make DB Super non canon, this thing made me appreciate GT so much more.
Funny how at the start of the sequels, people were trashing the prequels. Then TLJ came out and the prequels ruled. Now even in the disney SW series they are doing stuff mostly in the prequel era, like Obi-wan (and still failing.
@@denkerbosu3551 I think they only dislike the prequel movies (*except episode 3 as it gotten a really nice amount of money*) until more lore came out like the two clone war shows,comics and novels to help make that help to become more likeable.
@@mrphauker and we will never forget neither forgive vegeta being a mf who dance, but you're 100% right dbs is such a bad fan fic that it made me nuts to think that its canon
The best compliment I can give Super is "It's like a fan fiction that has a couple of cool scenes, yet it completely spits in the face of the original and every so often you feel like the authors never watched the original."
Super is like bad fanfiction. Repetitive. Unoriginal. Poorly executed. There aren't even motivations, it's all 'eh, I guess I'll do this' or 'I need to get stronger because.' Full of prejudice (ie it's all goku and vegeta. To the point that they are themselves a parody of the Z counterpart, even regressing from previous arcs). Focuses on all the things fans like (fighting and forms) and none of the things fans don't realize they actually love (the cast, the unpredictability, failure + growth and the slice of life nature of its narrative). Sadly, even though it focuses completely on fighting there are never any stakes because with only two characters no one can really get hurt or die. Even the obstacles feel fake given the terrible scaling. It's all fluff. I'd take an arc about small time criminals trying to get revenge on the Z fighters for accidentally stopping a robbery over the twentieth universal scale power battle.
Everything about Super just screams bad fanfiction. "Super Saiyan... but BLUE!!!" "Female Broly!!!" "Evil version of Goku!!!" It's all so hilariously awful.
Yeahh... thing is, in my opinion... many of the fan mangas totally surpass Super in every way. They should've just animated Dragon Ball multiverse, or something.
That’s why I read Dragon Ball Kakumei. If you don’t know, Dragon Ball Kakumei is a fan manga that is infinitely better than super and brings back the heart and story telling of Z. The art is also like if Yusuke Murata (the manga artist for One Punch Man) drew in the DB style. It’s honestly so good and if you are a Dragon Ball fan, you owe it to yourself to read it.
I love GT. GT is the reason I got into Dragon Ball and I liked how it tried to be like OG and early Z and less of later Z that many make fun of like less fighting and more beams and jokes about how the next super sayian is just SSJ3 but even longer hair (it's why I like SSJ4 because it's different and called back it's original and isn't just SSJ3 with longer hair or SSJ1 but different color.) My favorite DB games are the ones that include GT stuff. To this day I still want a GT DLC for Dragon Ball Kakarot like how they made DLC for Super stories.
I really like Dragon Ball GT. It does have its problems, just like Super has its problems - however, I seem to notice the passion that was put into GT. The original Dragon Ball has been overshadowed by Z, and instead of making a Z clone - it seems that they tried to combine the two whilst also making its own concepts - Black Star Dragon Balls, Super Saiyan 4 being its own unique design and not just a hair dye. The Dragon Balls actually having purpose other than being a plot device. Unlike Super, GT actually has stakes and consequences thankfully taking place after the end of Z. As someone who had to adjust to his heritage and finally became proud of his heritage and didn't shy away from it, Goku Jr is probably the most relatable character for me. So please keep in mind my biases and I don't hate Super.
I’ve been saying this for years, the passion of Dragon Ball z has been besmirched. The DBZ I once grew up wasn’t about marketing schemes methods for Toei to sell SSJ on cereal box, action figures. Transformations after transformation with no actual real resolutions behind it. The tournament was the nail in the coffin, the writers and the corporate investors don’t care about the fans, it’s what’s making them the funds and the funds for “Garbage.” Dragon Ball Gt and Dragon Ball evolution make more sense than super itself 🤦🏽♂️ I’m not looking forward for the next arc, it’s all bullshit fan base ideas so they can sell transformations on cereal boxes. They’ve clearly discharged every hardcore DB fan base that grew up with this series. Honestly it’s a big slap in the face to the Dragon ball Universe. 📝 I’m glad you’ve done this review, there’s too much bandwagon reviewers, their not thinking about the concept and plot what the shows meant to be based on 🗣️📝
With all due respect my man but you're absolutely wrong. Many decisions of DBZ were taken money wise or fan-base wise, leaving Vegeta alive, extending the Frieza's battle, THE ENTIRE ANDROID-CELL SAGA WAS REWRITTEN BECAUSE TOEI ANIMATION DIDN'T LIKE NEITHER ANDROID 18 AND 19 OR DR GERO AS VILLAINS, Super Saiyan 3, the multiple Buu forms, etc. The existence of things like Cell himself were forced into the manga by Toei. But I get what you mean.
I'm glad you agree that Goku's character was downgraded in some type of way. There have been people that say that his character hasn't changed, but there was a noticable difference in Super. I get that DBS was supposed to be kid friendly but they took away the aspects of Goku that we knew and loved. I ended up liking Vegeta as a character more and more as Super went on because you could see the notable character growth for him while my love for Goku decreased as Super continued until midway through the TOP. Loved the video!!!!
I hate that they pretty much continued Vegetas character arc of needing to be stronger than Goku But Gokus intelligence drop was ridiculous and even worse imo. Yes we know he isn’t a “hero”, we know he fights for fun. Stop making him into an idiot though, Toriyama! The man would be serious if his universe was at stake, he’d want to beat Jiren not just cause he’s strong but because he knows he has to pass this hurdle to save his loved ones and many innocents.
@@ziongamer6905 It would've been fitting in a way and would've been a better way to introduce the idea that Vegeta was going to achieve power in his own way like he was saying in the TOP. I don't think Goku becoming less intelligent or kid friendly was Toriyama, it was whoever was in charge of writing the anime story because Toriyama just gave them a guideline for stories and they had to add what they thought was good while keeping the notes that Toriyama sent it to them
Lee Moore the only people who think super goku is the same as Japanese z goku are TFS fanboys, watch the last dragon ball saga in Japanese against Majunor, you’ll see Japanese goku at 18 is far smarter and far less silly as super goku
I just don't like how Super doesn't seem like it has much of a story with any weight to it. Everything just feels like a self-contained long filler arc, and Beerus and Whis always being around just feels like they're hanging onto the series and living plot armor. There just doesn't seem to be much direction for the characters anymore. Its just "new thing shows up" like Smash Bros. And the whole thing with alll the characters other than Goku is just. "they want to protect their off screen families" as their shared motivation isnt really a plotline. Its a generic default status. Like they became the Justice League now, and not really anti-herioc martial artists anymore. I just don't think Super really does anything better than GT other than just better fights. GT had better arc plots imo.
Every fucking character in dragon Ball is a fucking prodigy... Master Roshi took 50 years to do the Kamehameha while Goku took 50 seconds, Tien literally made master Roshi quit martial arts even though he was a teenager, piccolo became stronger than his own father within 3 years of existing, Frieza without any training could actually hold his own with the legendary Super Saiyan and trained for 4 months so he could fight ssjb goku, the Android's we're stronger than SSJ by default and 17 became ssjb level from training on a fucking island, Gohan with only 4 years of training beat cell who was literally made up of all the strongest beings to exist at the time, Goten and trunks became SSJ at an earlier age than Gohan, Buu is the literal incarnation of evil, etc. Why is it so fucking weird for caulifla and kale to do the same exact shit every fucking character did? How can she be a mary sue? She has zero fucking wins and got humiliated by Goku. Goku was literally training her.
@@averyhepburn8092 because it's dumb. No one but super fanboys liked the frieza or 17 getting that strong with zero explainations nor did anyone like goten and trunks getting ssj that early. By kale and caulifla people had just gotten tired of asspulls
To be completely fair caulifla and kale turned into mary Sues only because they were rushed, same goes for jiren. If only the story didn't rush their development, they could've been great. There were times it came really really REALLY close to being good. For instance jiren's backstory instead of just having jiren say "oH fRieNds aRe UseLeSs" over and over. They could instead delve deeper into how he disconnects himself from people because of his fear of lost, combined with his pain of betrayal and abandonment by his old friends. They got super close to it during the battle with goku but they ultimately just said "nah f*ck it, just make him swole." Same with kale and caulifla, especially kale. Her fear of being abandoned and left behind or being a burden to caulifla could've been explored more. Maybe a flashback of how caulifla always had to protect her and maybe even gets injured trying to. Perhaps delve a little deeper into why caulifla likes kale so much, it's not really explained, from the way caulifla is portrayed, it would seem like she'd hate kale because of how weak she is. Instead of making kale universe 6's broly, they could've lead with that but surprise us and show that she's actually that universe's gohan. Similar to gohan, she hates herself for allowing people to get hurt for her and causing more bad than good when she goes berserk, eventually it builds up and she's finally able to let it go and control her power. And it could literally be as simple as just giving a WHOLE episode (not just parts of one) dedicated to exploring kale and caulifla and another one for jiren, seeing those were the only opponents slightly focused upon in the T.O.P. these are just my opinions and ideas feel free to disagree
Love how "rage" became the go-to for super Saiyan transformations when it really was never about that in the first place. Goku embraced a sense of wrath, a desire to inflict suffering in order to achieve it. Vegeta dropped his pride and experienced self-loathing to find the power. Gohan finally accepted responsibility and found it. It was about dispelling a core aspect of their personality to find that power to transform. Saiyans have been one of the angriest, most violent beings in the universe for a very long time, and suddenly 'anger' is the way to bring out a transformation that hasn't been seen for 1000+ years, as if Saiyans are just the chillest hippy people. Give me a break. Don't get me started on the lame 'tingle' of universe 6 saiyans, again as if no one in their entire evolutionary history felt a tingle in their back. Honestly, everything after the Cell saga had horrendously bad writing, just shoe-horning things in for the sake of the plot they wanted to craft, despite all the precedent that had been established before hand. Oh Goten and Trunks are super saiyan at a tender young age, for . . . .reasons. . . I'd love a 'What If" from you if dragon ball played by their own rules that were established early on.
Rage was originally always part of the transformation....rage and a pure heart. That was it. However it is quite difficult to obtain a pure heart while getting mad. Goku and Gohan obtain a good pure heart, vegeta an evil one. The tingling back was lmfao awful
Goten and Trunks were super saiyans so that they could participate in the plot. If Goten and Trunks couldn't go super saiyan they would have had as much impact on the plot as Krillin. If that was the case they may as well have not existed. My personal theory is that Toriyama originally had some idea to have Gotenks and Gohan beat Buu and thereby set them up as the new protectors of the Earth. Ending the story with Goku and Vegeta dead and the Saiyans extinct. But the fans/editors wouldn't have it.
@@LSgaming201 Yeah it's pretty clear the story was supposed to be handed off to Gohan after Cell, but fans and/or internal struggles with the staff forced him to change direction so we had Gohan didn't train for 7 years to make him weaker than Vegeta and Goku who train 24/7 Like seriously Gohan, did you not do anything but wake up an study for 16 hours a day? I agree with you that Trunks and Goten had to become SSJ to become plot relevant and there very well may have been a plot that got cancelled where Gohan and Gotenks defeat Buu but unfortunately at the end of the day the show became Goku Time above all else. Though worth noting the Sayians aren't completely extinct even in your fan fiction of Vegeta and Goku being dead. There are still 3 half sayians which I think should count as they are genetically close enough to the originals, but yeah I get your point and would have liked to see it. Speaking of the bloodline, you'd think the prince of all sayians would at least try and have more than one kid, two if you count Bra in GT, just to try and preserve as much of his royal bloodline as possible.
@kayneassasin There was a point of about 50 episodes where the Saiyans are extinct. After Vegeta sacrifices himself against Buu, the Saiyans are extinct. Goku and Vegeta are both dead and Broly and Paragus weren't canon yet. So at that point. The Saiyans were indeed extinct.
1:53:33 pretty ironic how DBS fans say GT's worse than Super when GT kept Goku's character and fighting prowess consistent like how moves on Goku never work twice and he always works around it and how surprise attacks on Goku were genuine surprise attacks and not just Goku having his guard down bs
God I love your section on Goku, finally someone GETS IT!! A mature and respectable Goku who we can look up to, but who also when he does something silly like "MY BUTTS ON FIRE" in the frieza fight, it's actually a funny moment, a treasured part of his character. DBs destroyed him by turning him into a complete dumbass and I hate DBs Goku so much. Thank you for recognising this and bringing it out. You've solidified me as a fan of your work.
@@monicavulvatron3800 Dragon Ball heroes always does a great job of making Goku look like a toatal bad ass and a mentor. I enjoy watching those trailers where suddenly you and your hero feel like you'll be okay because SSJ3 Goku is standing right behind you looking more serious than Picollo
I didn’t mind Universe 6 Saiyans being almost completely opposite of the Saiyans on Universe 7. It was just the execution and ruining of Super Saiyan that made them awful.
@@tentaplayz3691 Actually, that should be the crudest but still effective way to justify Frost NOT being evil like Freeza, he just ended up being nothing more than a stereotype creator!
Something about super that i dont hear anyone mention is THEY TURNED MAI INTO A NEW CHARACTER, its a 30,40, maybe even 50 year old in a 9 year old body trying to marry a 12 year old kid and in the future trunks saga she is a whole new character
100% agree with everything. It felt soulless and directionless. The transformation fatigued and the shit treatment on the Z warriors so many missed opportunities wasted. My heart goes out to the animators that had to deal with forced hours by the company's demand and the death threat comments from their audience, they dont deserve any of it but the writers and staff production deserve every harsh criticism. I was one of those defensive people that defended "Super" cause I spent time and energy start to finish but while looking back on it, the journey was a huge headache and pain in the ass. There's some to like about "Super" slice of life moments and fights too. I was debating whether to collect the DBS anime on bluray to complete my DB series but instead I'll just stick with the physical manga and buy GT instead.
Yeah Super may be canon since it happens after Bulmas birthday party & before the final tournament when Goku fights uub In DBZ but since it was done soo bad & without love it’s a cartoon now that’s not canon In the eyes of fans. I think GT comes after DBZ ending since Goku is in his blue Gi & Pan was born in the last episode of Z by Gohan & now she’s a full grown teen in GT.
If I could sum up DBS in a one sentence it will be "Just add things, it will do great with the kids". Who cares about logic and established lore and world/character building.
Even the writers could but they intentionally ruined it to sell the fkin toys ... That's why so many transformations.. they didn't gave a single form a chance to grow and they didn't used any character other than Goku and Vegeta .. look at Gohan, Goten & Trunks(both) .. they're sidelined bcz they could make money while writing a completely lazy storyline with minimal effort
@@M3rtyville And there is a lot of issues in dragon ball gt too. But I still like it both have their flaws, But that doesn't stop me from thinking it was a good series.
@@jameslopez5442 Gt's flaws are mild compared to Super. Z and original Dragon Ball had also their flaws. Super's flaws are far more damaging. And there is more bad than good. I can't name anything good about Super from the top of my head. People that hate GT, even those who didn't watch it, can name things that are good about it.
Toriyama just needs to stop being lazy and stop with the napkin note writing. If he doesn’t want to do full writing he should just stop and leave the series.
I don't think I realised how bad dbs was until I started rereading the original dragon ball. The original dragon ball actually had soul, the writing was impeccable, the power-ups were fun and feel deserved, Krillin, Yamchan, and Tien were actually impressive and Tien became my favourite character. dbz was an entirely different ball game, the Super Saiyan was an incredible transformation and actually felt deserved. To this day I don't understand where Super Saiyan blue came from, we suddenly had blue and the original super saiyan god was nerfed and we didn't even see its proper potential. I liked the original Bardock far more than the dbs Bardock which is just a rehashed Superman story. I still like dbs, I still read the manga, but my god it's just so entirely bad.
The absolute truth can NEVER be debunked! Thank you, Scholar. This video does my soul good. BTW this review had more heart in it then the actual thing!
I stop in Gt, and i prefer to believe that Dbs never existed and Dbgt is cannon. if I had to give a note to these two I would give: Dbgt: 5/10 Dbs: 2/10
Goddamn that is true for me! I suffer an high case of disillusion because of dbs just keeping to be a disappointing mess, AND STILL BEING CONSIDERED GOOD by seemingly the majority of fans!
One thing I've learned lately is how to let go of a series that used to be good. So many series have an amazing season or two then dwindle off. I've learned to stop watching if there's enough bad episodes in a row. Bad shows? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Here's a number of shows that suffered from a decline in quality due to multiple seasons 1. SpongeBob SquareSpants 2. Loud House 3. Johnny test 4. The Simpsons
honestly this is messed up, people wish that new shows would be like their own childhood but wake up its not 1992 anymore u guys think that because dragon ball super isint dragon ball z u find an excuse to critisize it because it isint ur childhood its not about what u want its about what toriyama wants to do with the franchise. he ended Z because he wanted to go on to new things like super.. just like how naruto ended and boruto came along thats the same thing toriyama is doing with dragon ball
plus u guys say some things are lazy but cut them some slack, they work their asses off to give us a good show and u guys critisize them because its not *nostalgic*
My biggest problem is how they changed Goku and Vegeta 1: Goku was much serious and less stupid in DBZ 2: Goku doesn't care if a universe blows up, he only cares about fighting and rarely takes it seriously, not only that but the only time be seemed actually serious is in the Goku Black saga when Black killed Chi Chi and Goten. 2: Vegeta was peaceful, and had huge characters development more then ever, he even shared food with Majin Buu for god sake. He even sacrificed himself to protect Goten and Trunks, he agreed to fuse with Goku permanently(even though it wasn't permanent.) And admitted to himself that Goku was #1.
Exactly,they ruined vegetas character and made him into a literal joke too,vegeta during the climax of the buu saga was very mature and addmited that goku was #1 but now in supers hes very whiny and still acts like a bozo
@@rubberballoonlover5471 I assume you're referring to the "using the Dragon Balls to make herself younger or give her a bigger butt" thing. If that's the case, I do agree wholeheartedly.
One thing I really hate about Blue is how absolutely stunning the color is. I'm not a big fan of the golden hairs, but goddamn, I prefer that any time over that weird blue coloration. If they wanted to transmit tranquility, they could have easily used the aura. Imagine the interior being just a regular Goku, maybe with a soft blue to his hair, but with a cool "spirit-like" aura surrounding him. Anything that made the coloration less aggressive, because when I look into such a shiny solid color that looks like it's on fire I don't feel like the warrior is tranquil, I feel like he has a personal vendetta against my eyes. Edit: I now saw again the image of Ultra Instinct and... yeah, guess that's exactly what I was describing. Regular Goku surrounded by a darker tone of blue in a spirit-like aura. Perfect design, I really agree that it should have gone from God straight to Instinct. Also, the name for Ultra Instinct in Portuguese is basically *Superior* Instinct and I just love this name so much.
For it was mostly the opposite: I really love the golden-fiery transformation of super saiyan, and it was my biggest reason for hating ssj blue. Ssj blue is essentially not only a mockery of the original ssj transformation by just being a lazy palette swap, it is also an awkward choice of blue shiny hair that I’ve always thought looked rather bad. Maybe if you like the color blue you’ll enjoy the look of this transformation, but for me it’s one of the most horrendous transformations ever achieved by the main characters. If they wanted to make goku go ssj in god form they should have just gone with an orange aura, but instead of having the hard-looking and shiny hair-they could have just left it looking sorta spiky, but mostly flowy (like how goku’s hair looked when the wind blew during his stare-off against vegeta before they fought in the saiyan saga) and not make it look shiny to represent the “calmness” of the transformation.
I don't like how frivolously SSJ Blue was used and how easy other characters can be on the same level by doing nothing, such as Android 17 fighting human poachers and automatically surpassed Majin Buu and can fight against SSJ Blue Goku.
The passionate “that dragon ball fan” speech at the beginning rivals Goku’s super saiyan speech on namek. That passion, preach! Literally your video at that point alone is already better than most other db youtubers videos put together. Bravo my friend 👏🏼
I feel like Z was perfection, we want more Dragon Ball, but it’s never going to be as good as Z, specifically the Namek Saga was just.. peak story telling and quality.
Probably Hot take: Cell saga was the end of the Dragon ball series for me. After that everything else went downhill from there. That doesn't mean I wanted Cell to come back (like they did with Frieza) but he was the best villain for the anime to end on.
For me the buu saga was good only because of how random it was , and Hercules character development was perfect , vegetas sacrifice, the introduction of gotten and gohan future wife Videl
The fact people can't see these problems and needs to be spoon fed is laughable. But they'll find a way to defend the bullshit. They're the problem. They're the reason we can't have nice things
@@zoomer4358 And what's worse is that they act like GT is the biggest letdown. I am no GT fan but Super did way worse in it's first arc than GT in it's entirety.
@@leultrainstinct406 nice bait. Toriyama never said he hated gt, he actually liked it. You only want to believe he hated it because you hate it. Your pathetic.
Z found multiple ways for the humans to contribute even tho they weren’t nearly as strong as the saiyans or the main villains, tien with the tri beam against cell all the humans who fought the saiyans and all the stuff krillin did on namek
Man imagine if they actually let goku die and Gohan was the hero the next generation grew up with .. Then old fans like us could say "you think Gohan is badass you should have seen his dad when he was alive"
So with SSG I thought any battle against someone as strong with that would basically destroy the universe, but then with blue being a stronger power, and freeza going from where he was to literally stronger than SSG out of nowhere, why didn't that fight alone destroy the universe?
I think dragon ball needs to just take a leap of faith and let them fight in space not just a new planet. That’s what it should have been as a Super Saiyan God form. Just so fans can’t complain about the whole fighting on the planet thing. I definitely agree that worlds should be destroyed but come on by the fight with Cell they definitely had planet crushing ability just by shock waves of fighting on the planet. The way I see it is that it’s been a problem for a long time and at this point it’s just a logic we need to accept if they are not gonna fight in space. They have multi planet and universal but fight on the ground for scenery.
@@arthurparlette7642 Theres no point in new forms and power scaling if the fights are functionally the same. Who cares if goku can “shake an infinite void” hes still punching kicking and shooting lasers. Boring as hell
To emphasize how strong the villains are, you can’t have planet level opponents forever because goku and vegeta could just eventually surpass them. With this logic, anything past the original and early saiyans saga is practically pointless. The escalation is simply for fun, granted it does look stupid that universe busters don’t actively blow everything up. Even villains who supposedly want to kill everyone. There is practically nothing stopping frieza fork blowing up the earth and doing away with the saiyans in one fellow swoop.
I think they should have made a Goku Jr. series/manga after GT. The DBZ chars had long run its course and the power levels were so incredibly high that they needed a reset.
I'll tell you what happened. Dragon Ball Z had a resurgence in popularity and some studio big wigs thought it would be a good idea to bring it back. when they made Dragon Ball Super, they ignored the shows that came before it and toned it down to be more kid friendly.
Too bad we live in this times when only a few companies actually care about money more than content like toei which pretty much sums up what db is today, a cash cow. But because it's db it'll never die or lose popularity
@@goki2607 Endgame was not a good movie. I thought I liked it at first, but that was just because of the hype. after some time passed, I realized that it actually sucks. most major character development happened off screen. it completely wasted opportunities for good storytelling that was built up. Bruce Banner and the Hulk becoming one happened off screen, despite being built up since the Incredible Hulk. Iron Man learning how to forgive not only Captain America, but also his own dad. Rocket dealing with the loss of the Guardians of the Galaxy, which was built up in the second Guardians movie. Captain America undid his character arc from Age of Ultron when he said that he didn't want a family anymore. Black Widow didn't even get her own funeral, she had one scene where everyone was sad and that was it. her death should have been devastating on Hulk, since their romance had been built up in Age of Ultron. Thanos in Endgame is a different Thanos than the one in Infinity War, so this movie gives us no reason to care about him since his personality is different. Captain Marvel didn't even need to be in the movie because she contributed nothing that couldn't be done by other characters. if the Infinity Stones being gone is so bad, then why hasn't the main MCU timeline been completely destroyed by not having Infinity Stones for 5 years? why didn't the Avengers go back in time to when Thanos had all the Infinity Stones, just slightly before the snap and cut his head off while Thor was trying to make Thanos suffer? if Captain America traveled back in time to an alternate timeline and never returned, how did he show up in the main timeline as an old man? especially since Hulk literally stated in this movie why that wouldn't work. why did they ruin a potentially great scene where Iron Man and Nebula find their way to Earth by having Captain Marvel just randomly find and save them? it would've worked much better if they had Iron Man get back using only his genius and limited tech. it would mirror Iron Man 1 perfectly and it would've worked great seeing as it was Iron Man's last movie. one scene that I really liked was when Ant-Man made it back to the world to find half of everyone gone. I was expecting some heartwarming dialogue with him and his daughter, but it never came and it was just skipped over. Star-Lords return to Earth should've been a big moment for him, seeing as he hasn't been there since he was a kid. I know they couldn't have that much time to do much, seeing as the movie has a lot of characters, but I would've liked to see him look around or saying something about Earth, but we didn't get anything close.
dragon ball gt (sub) feels like a flawed love letter to the series past. super (all forms) feels like akira toriyama's retirement fund started running low, and he knew that dragon ball was too big to fail, so itd be fine to just disney it. i cant even say it didnt set out to debase gt, because it spits in the face of the saiyan legacy that gt gives full reverence towards. i know which one sounds like the better show to me, and its very clearly the former.
i wouldn't say there in denial, just the few who like it. dragon ball super has done more damage to dbz than anything else. the fandom has only gone down as of late. to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I remember people were still comparing dbz to shows all the way up to resurrection f. People were still talking about dbz, it fan creations, the hate for gt was still strong. i remember it all. then super came out, and all that began to die slowly. nowadays, only a few die hard are still acting like it was 10 years ago. it sad
the problem is its just like music if the new music is the it thing quote on quote people will like it cuz ots new and its music but not all new things are good I never lolee super never will watch it unless I have friends telling me watch this or watch that I'm the same with music and vars not all new things ate hoid that's just me
I knew Super was going to suck from day 1. From Battle of Gods, I knew that if it wasn’t a stand alone film, they had ruined Dragonball. How? Because if they continued, all it was going to be was another, generic power creep show. Goku gets the power of a FUCKING GOD! Literally the Super Sayian GOD. No one should be able to stand up to him, period. Goku is now the strongest mortal to have ever lived and to even hint that anyone would even come close to strong enough was laughable. Instead, we have Vegeta achieving the same thing off screen, and now they have a new transformation, and now Gohan is just as strong, and now Freeza is slightly stronger but he can’t maintain the form. Wait… FREEZA? The guy who couldnt stand up to a normal, brand new Super Sayian that had a fraction of the power of a Full Powered Super Sayian? Which was half as strong as a Super Sayian 2? Which was also left behind by Super Sayian 3, Mystic Gohan, and fusion powers? Freeza is now STRONGER than not only a god, but a god with the power of a Super Sayian? How? Oh… he TRAINED FOR FOUR MONTHS?!?!?!?! THATS IT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? And then it was all down hill from there. Now everyone is as strong as a god, other universes have people just as strong as Goku and Vegeta in base form just cause. New Sayians can turn Super Sayian 2 in a week. Everything that made Z great has been shit on or thrown out the window. Super is pure, unadulterated garbage and has been since its inception. I feel like Scholar is saying good things about the beginning only to soften the blow that Super is pure shit, because it was pure shit from the very beginning. There was NOTHING about the show that wasn’t generic and disrespectful to its past from DAY ONE. Ive never liked Super and to see everyone coming around because the initial hype has died down, the very same people who called me stupid or how i don’t know shit about Dragonball or whatever, are now making videos explaining why it sucks is frustrating at the least. Stop kidding yourself that Super was anything but a soulless, empty cash grab, because it wasn’t. Not even the parts that Scholar says he liked. They were shit wall to wall. Stop being blinded by nostalgia. Just because your favorite show is coming back doesnt make it good or even welcome. Remember that the creators have to actually care if you want your show to be anywhere near as good as it used to be.
Imagine creating 12 new universes ans never explorating them
And placing all their strongest fighters in one tournament so it would be pointless for Goku to go to their universes.
Plague of gripes made a great video talking about this
@@JellyNightSquid94
>12 universes
>12 hypothetical infinite possibilities
Toriyama: let's immediately limit the universes and make the strongest fighters fight so no one has interest in these universes outside of these characters
@@joshgroban5291 That's Toriyama for ya.
Imagine creating 12 new universes and them ALL using the exact same ki system!
I loved the idea of how Toppo thought Goku was a villain because it was his idea of starting the tournament of power which put the safety of all the universes in jeopardy, just to fill Goku’s love of fighting. That was an intriguing concept they could’ve explored, how Goku’s hubris is putting innocents in danger, but they threw it away by saying “actually Zeno was going to destroy them anyway so Goku really saved the universes by giving everyone a fighting chance.” I thought that was a cheap scapegoat.
Facts it was dumb
I'm ngl i can't remember much, but i thought xeno was gonna destroy alot of the universes and TOP idea from goku. kinda preserved them, thou i could be off the mark because its been a long while
Unless I'm just misremembering something, I find it stupid that Goku was scolded for just suggesting a tournament and then it was decided, "We kill the losers!"
@@valydendor4472 xeno had already intended to just erase the universes included in TOP but yeah it felt kinda stupid imo that they would destroy them for not being strong enough
Definitely was a cheap a scapegoat and such bullshit, it’s like the writers were like “wait the fans are right that’s bad for Gokus character so let’s just say this instead” so lazy and shit writing.
The worst thing they did to Picollo is the fact that they made him a freaking narrator! Everything that happens picollo has to tell us exactly what happened. “He’s changed, he’s dropped from his god form to a mere super saiyan, yes, thank you for the information we JUST SAW
im glad piccolos a narrator now
especially with shin in the top being reduced to asking what happened
Well I hate how in the movie shenron gave Piccolo a new transformation on top of his first new form(which he actually earned through training) like what. I think it was said in DBZ only porunga can make those kinds of wishes. Also Gohans form was made by other creators (I know that ssj original design was basically Beast Gohan)but it was never put on screen until El Blanco was a thing and AF expanded Gohans form with ssj6(I know Akira Toriyama approved and the creator is now making Super) Hell Granolah arc is just baby arc but not an evil Saiyan, and Morro arc is cell saga. The whole super series is a big what if mainly TOP. BOG was the only movie and arc I liked, Frieza coming back was cool, but Vegeta should have won. Hit was the only thing I liked in U6 arc and I guess there being more Saiyan's including female. Goku black should have been Gohan Black(both series and manga are good) Frieza should have been with cell for TOP and replace Tien. Broly is just an amalgamation of DBZ Broly and Fusion Reborn.Side Note: ssj god should have been Goku's limit until UI ssj Blue just felt like a waste of a form, but kaioken blue was dope, but not as dope as ssj God UI. Goku's avatar form is just a susanoo from Naruto.
Well for that monent picollo was telling everyone else what happened since he has enhanced senses
Super is shit but as a 29 years old who is not into anime anymore I would still defend Orange piccolo.
It’s his dragon and it was a form that Piccolo probably could have reached later on but Shenron threw him a little extra. Also we needed a new Namekian form as it has lately been all about freaking Saiyans.
Actually, it's a very common anime trope. Hard to actually criticize.
I really wish Goku Black as an alternate version of Goku who never hit his head rather than some higher deity taking over his body
That would've been better. I'm sure people thought that's what it was until that other guy came.
I had enough of evil Gokus
I don't even know why they introduced the back tingly concept for super saiyan. Super saiyan was ALWAYS about the inner anger and frustration that a saiyan felt. The aura was a bright yellow kinda like a flame and the gold hair represented the ascension that the saiyan went through. I can't believe they spat on probably the most iconic form of dragon ball.
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Ikr
Idk why the show made Cabba explain to the girls about the thing on the back WHILE Vegeta explained to Cabba previously that it comes from anger
You know, if they had written the tournament of power in a way that they had 3-4 months to prepare(I give her 3-4 months cuz she's super strong in base, so it's ok if it's 3-4 months only,even if she's not a martial arts master like goku) then they could have cabba try to enrage caulifla, it fails as quickly as it did in the actual show, then explain to her that she has to concentrate ki on her back in a very specific way. Caulifla sits down in a meditating potision and concentrates ki on her back for like, a month, like fricking budda(so the authors could empathize on the Buddhism reference they made with the ki in the back thing), thus being the first known saiyan to unlock ssj with meditation alone(which would be because she's a genius and all) and the rest of the months training to master ssj and unlock ssj2(since she's already super strong and is a genius, it kinda makes sense). I would love that. There were MANY plot points in super were I thought "wow this is such a cool idea that is done very horribly". Trust me, many times. It's like they found gold and smeared it in crap.
If anything i thought the back tingles was a fine way to explain how to regularly transform...after a saiyan had already unlocked the form.
But caulifla didn't have it unlocked yet so it feels like an ass pull. Especially since we were told that universe's saiyans are naturally way stronger than universe 7's.
It pisses me off the manga skips over this like that's a better alternative.
Super has a major problem with asspulling characters powers for no reason.
Why can't characters train under harsh conditions off screen for a while?
Goku and vegeta get fair treatment in that regard but even then the writers fuck it up because tien, buu, goten, trunks, piccolo etc get shit on while trunks, 17, frieza and broly get major ass pulls.
They wanted to add a shortcut to the form to make more toys faster.
I especially love how Jiren was built up to be the final boss of the massively hyped TOP arc and the only backstory we got for him was "his family was killed by an evildoer"
Jiren Wayne.
He's Strong because his Parents are dead.
And we never know who that evil doer was.
evildoer who apparently returned and killed his master too
@@freetrial9535 lmao
@Ivore yeah, talk about a bad design. I never got the hype train, but I heard people talking about "Jiren" at the time. Thing is, the only image I'd seen of any villain was Hit, and for very long I thought he was that "Jiren" guy. Then I got to actually see Jiren and I would prefer if my initial misunderstanding was actually correct the whole time, Hit has a way cooler design.
The fact that Goten and Trunks look exactly like they did in Buu Saga if not younger is actually REALLY insulting. To give you a comparison, Kid Trunks is at the same age as Future Trunks when Future Gohan died. Please, just take a moment to compare Young Future Trunks from the Future Trunks Special with Super's Kid Trunks. It's ridiculous.
GT did Trunks and Goten’s age/design much better than Super
Dragon Ball Super should be non-canon.
And super retconed how saiyans grow
@@genesismultiverse4896 "it's ridiculous"
@@Chance57 and the reason is they were lazy
They all called me crazy when I said I’d rather watch gt over super, and that’s not me saying gt is good 😭
BS dude..super deserves way more credit than that. UI in EP 109-110 can be considered top 10 dragon ball moments of all time. The Goku black arc, the new characters introduced..you obviously did not watch it
@@shaochiavang actually I did, I’ve watched the whole show and ultra instinct is just another shell to sell toys like every other transformation in super (blue, trunks ss rage, rose, and instinct)
@@Jose-st3fq if you watch the entire DBS series then how can you say it was better. That's insane. GT had their moments but in no way had the story arc that the Goku black or TOP had. On top of that DBS introduced new well written characters such as beerus, whis, jiren and the gods of the other universe which has not even been explored yet.
Dbs wasn't this great show but it wassnt as bad as you make it to be. EP 109-110 broke the site cuz so much people were trying to stream it. Many things in DBS can also be considered top moments in the dragon ball world also and that's a long list to beat out spots for.
@@shaochiavang doesn’t mean I’m a gt super fan but you’ll get on ur knees to pleasure Toei for making a cash grab show that’s a disgrace to the og dragon ball and dragon ball z run
@@Jose-st3fq no one's comparing it to those except you. And gt was the Ultimate cash grab bro
My biggest problem with super is how they changed Goku. I understand that Goku is no Superman but it's not like that he only fights for the sake of fighting. In Dragon Ball Z, he had his loved ones in mind while training. Goku's perspective on life changed after training with Kami. From there on, he would only kill if it's the last resort. It's not just that he wants new training partners.
I really loved how you saw Goku growing up as a naive boy living in the woods growing into a seasoned martial arts fighter
He didn’t change he grew emotionally. After defeating buy he started to realize what he wanted and that was a pupil.
@@kurokun5810 well then what the hell is he doing in super? All he's doing is trying to get stronger than Beerus what character development 😒
@@olofacosta3192 his emotional growth is league ahead of what he was in z. The god form is somewhat symbolic of thisgrowth. He no longer gains power through rage but control. In super He doesn’t react only physically with his opponents but emotionally and philosophically as well. The blue form and ui compliment this.. He knows buu has been reincarnated somewhere so his true arch is being a teacher one day.
When Goku comes you would be cheering because it’s going to be all right but in Super he lost that heroic vibe.
Super ruined every character except 17. He was so awesome I wanted super to stop being dogshit so I could watch it without dying
When he said “Just because something makes money and sells toys, doesn’t make the product good within itself. Just ask WWE.” I felt that 💭
pain fight was trrash becoz wen nagato destroyed the village he showed that strong villain energy but fighting naruto he was like let me remain like a scare crow like all naruto villains y didnt he used almighty push on naruto in the first place n than later died from a predictable small rasengan which was meters away 💀. lee vs gaara was a bs fight it was just about running fast aside of that lee lost the fight becoz of sand💀 even after being wayyyyyy faster than gaara than there naruto comes and defeats a stronger version of gaara without training his whole life this arc was definition of garrbage. Y didnt obito used his kamui against kakashi wasnt he fighting all the shinobi hours ago🤦♂️.naruto vs sasuke is the most shiitiest fight ever the whole fights didnt made sense base naruto was able to fight sasuke with sharingan n rennigan
All the naruto fights ar nonsensical inlogical
Hell yeah fucking right !
WWE's trashiness lead to the creation of AEW.
Ouch...!!
@@andrewdasilva7786 What does this have to do with DBS, and why is your grammar so god awful?
I don't really care about dragon ball, but I have massive respect for someone who isn't afraid to come across as an asshole for asserting his points with confidence.
I just realized how insanely stupid it is that Gohan can apparently become not just as strong as he was but even stronger with basically a day's worth of training, yet he was able to let himself go so badly that he couldn't even handle regular SSJ. Not even one day, a single day within several years. He has a power to protect his world but he can't spare even few hours per year to keep it up. That's honestly more irresponsible than anything Goku has ever done and just plain lazy. Like imagine if you could become Eddie Hall strong by just visiting gym once per year and you couldn't bring yourself to do even that much. You'd have to be the biggest loser ever to not do that. I'm sure they didn't wanna potray Gohan to be that bad but that's what you get when you can't pick your lane and stay in it when it comes character's training speed.
The writer made it clear gohan was never gonna be a fighter and the writers are too reliant on goku
That there no way in hell they’re gonna let gohan gets stronger
The very fact that Gohan in like a days worth of training could spar with Goku highlights my other issue with Super, the power scaling sucks, whats the point of Goku and Vegeta constantly training to reach new heights just for others (Frieza, Gohan, 17, Caulifla etc) to reach the same heights with 1/1000000 of the amount of training
@@Lulu-ew7ohit’s not the writer it is the fans.
Gohan was ment to replace Goku by Akira the writer’s will.
However, DBZ was a manga designed for japanese boys. In Shonen Jump there were character popularity polls. Gohan was not popular enough among japanese boys so they brought back Goku.
Gohan was ruined by the fans.
@@roberth4395yeah no you're both wrong it's toei. This is about money people nobody cares about your entertainment the entertainment you get is solely to make more money. They'll keep the story decent enough for it to keep going so they can sell more toys that's where the real money is why do you think Goku has numerous forms with different hair colors?They know they can get away with bad writing because most watchers are kids teens and idiots. People that mostly watch anime for fighting and transformation can barely analyze a story and they care even less so why would they up their writing? So yeah I guess you're partly right the fans are also at fault.
You forgot that Piccolo died in the Frieza resurrection saga and they revived him off camera as if he was worth nothing
Exactly; he forgot. Just like Toei.
@@DCBiscuit Just like Toriyama you mean. The joke is that Toriyama just kinda forgot a lot of things along the way, such as the entire character of Launch.
@@Jane-oz7pp dude toriyama didn’t even make supers plot it was his brother that wanted to toriyama just made the manga as he didn’t care that much for the anime
@@Monke-Mongral-CEO he does make the plot he just doesnt write the arcs.
he gives a general idea of what happens but thats it.
Damn this shitstorm was so bad that I didnt even remembered it. Most of this crap have already faded from my memory
I feel goku's stupidity in super was his version of mid life crisis 😂
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Dragon Ball Super multiplied Goku's selfishness and stupidity by 100.
@@JellyNightSquid94ITS OVER 9
@@JellyNightSquid94 well Toriyama did thought Goku like that.
GT may have turned Goku into a child, but Super wrote him as if he was a child.
Dragon Ball Super feels like a show made by people that never watched any official Dragon Ball and only watched Dragon Ball Z Abridge
Yeah, even akira (author of DB) forgotten his own story
Goku's arc was always having an enemy more powerful and dangerous than he could be expected to face, gaining a mentor that can help him best his enemy, then besting more enemies until he completely outgrew his old mentor and needed a new one. But by the Buu saga, he had already pretty much outgrown every mentor in the universe and the afterlife, beaten a nigh invincible intergalactic threat and made even his most devoted rival acknowledge his superiority. This leaves only two options for the character. One is basically what Toriyama wanted for him. Namely, to retire Goku from fighting and turn him into a mentor. With neither new teachers nor new rivals, all there is for him is to pass the torch to Uub. Let him get old and live vicariously through whatever pupils there may be who can keep up with his training.
But no. The Dragon Ball franchise basically is the Goku franchise. If Gohan couldn't change that, Uub sure as hell couldn't. Goku can't be sidelined. So that leaves the second option -- just reset him. GT reset him by turning him back into a little kid whose other dragon balls. Super reset him by introducing literal gods and angels to act as his mentors and/or enemies and simultaneously undoing the better part of his nearly fifty years of experience. (Yeah, Goku has to be in his mid to late 40s in Super. Chew on that for a while.) Sadly, this makes Goku a rather lame character. He essentially stopped aging, changing or in any meaningful way even learning since his training on Yardrat.
But here's one more problem with the Goku reset that is Dragon Ball Super. It's back to Muten Roshi preparing Goku for the big martial arts tournament. Only Whis is Roshi. And that makes Vegeta the new Krillin. Isn't that a depressing thought -- Vegeta being the new Krillin?
That was his arc post timeskip/Z.
In Dragon Ball it was a bit different.
Collecting a Dragon Ball, becoming a pupil to Master Roshi, entering a tournament, Jackie Chun (Roshi) entering to show Goku and Krillin that no matter how strong they are, there is always someone stronger, Red Ribbon Army which Roshi could have defeated but it was a fun adventure arc, another tournament where Goku gets to test his new skills, but Roshi's point beign proven by Goku being defeated yet again by Tenshinhan. Piccolo Daimao debut, Dragon Ball takes a 360, it becomes darker. First death, not of some randos but of Krillin and Roshi, Goku's family at that point. From that point onwards that's when the classic formula began.
Arc 1 strong enemy.
Arc 2 stronger enemy.
Arc 3 even stronger enemy.
Arc 4 super duper stronger enemy.
It's fine tho, I liked the OG DB manga so much.
The big difference to me between Super and GT is that you can feel that GT was made by someone who genuinely enjoyed Dragonball and put effort into it but Super just feels hollow.
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Super Saiyan Legend and gt is good with a good story and characters, nobody has an issue with the show they just wish there was more stuff in it
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 most of the time gt wasnt really good the only things that hoestly was really amazing was obviously ss4 it was a new unique transformation that fit goku and vegeta, the shadow dragons was an interesting concept sometimes it felt off but was still ok to good if im being honestly, the ending was the best thing from GT because it felt exactly like an ending it was emotional and it felt like the true end and yet an offscreen beginning fr the characters and the ones to come
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 I'd say the only bad part about GT is the writing and plot executions
Dragon Ball Super - Hollow
The concept of GT was at the least interesting unlike super which was “Frieza is back” “Evil goku” “ and “Big tournament”
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I agree both of their ideas are intresting on their own (still I like gt's more) but the overall execution of them leaves so much to be desiredz they're quite underwhelming
@@jantheking7028 he loves Both Super and GT equally, he also expose the flaws of GT as well. In fact he is currently making a GT fan manga fixing the flaws of GT and making it into an interesting story. Watch his Dragon Ball GT: Redemption video and you’ll see.
@@jantheking7028 dude he said it himself that he loves both GT and Super equally. Who knows he might plan on making a Dragon Ball Super Redemption manga as well in the future.
I actually loved the search for the black star ball, it was like a grander scale of the early DB adventure episodes which I absolutely loved and still go back to from time to time. However, while I did like the concept of Pan at first, I just wished her character got proper development instead of always being a plot catalyst (we did see a bit of this during the dr miyuu part of the arc) and while not everyone is annoyed by power levels, when I watched GT, Goku saying Rildo is around the level of Buu while he was fighting him in his weakened, base kid form bothered me.
Also. I love how you used the original Bardok as an example of no safety net. You root so hard for him that entire movie knowing he's going to die but you can't help yourself and get crushed when it happens! That was so good!
Easily my favorite Dragon Ball movie ever.
I don't even watch dragon ball super because of what I did to bardock. I could care less about goku's mom. She was better off as a mystery.
The sad thing is that Dragon Ball has a lot of intriguing characters and stories they could explore but the creativity of the writers is not coming off on screen.... no imagination.
I'd rather watch a hand drawn Z Warriors series. Tien, Yamcha, krillin, protecting earth and innocent people. Have Goten in there and have an arc where he has to step up and save the planet while everyone else is far off.
I honestly don't understand the lack of spin offs... if they are successful, you can incorporate cross series stories or bring them together for movie features.
I think Super Saiyan God should have been a goal post to reach throughout the series.
Goku achieves god in the beginning as it happens. Then cant get it again without help from the other saiyans, so he and Vegeta strive to get it without help throughout the whole series. That way god power doesnt get undermined. They really backed themselves into a corner by having God power levels be so easily obtained.
Was easy for Goku to get but not Vegeta
@@austin31697 but it was though lol especially to the viewer. He's out training with whis and sh*t and, ope, well looky here, vegeta has God power already.
@@damondriver6363 intense training with Whis isn't easy. Vegeta spent hard work and time getting it, even if it was off screen.
Goku made a wish and made saiyans give him the power
Vegeta pushed himself to get it
@@OverlordAlastor didn't he use the ritual on himself though
@@OverlordAlastor "Even if it was off screen."
Let me stop you right there, that means that it didn't take work. That's not how storytelling, or writing works.
I commend you for making a video this long ✊
Xeno ok
I havent seen your videos in a long time
@@xeno4693 OK BOOMER
@@MattChuBoi755 +2
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Something I recently felt I really hated about Super is that there never seems to be a consequence or cost in anything hanging over an arc or a power ups. It all feels like its just an episodic easy arc that has no stakes to them. And fights feel very formulaic.
Like at least the Cell saga had costs. Vegeta wanted to prove his potential so he let Cell become perfect. The cost of that was Cell being too strong for him and he took it.
that they let the Androids wake up, because they wanted to meet the next challenge, but at the cost of being killed and the Earth being systemically destroyed so they trained in motivation for it. Also Fighting 19 and 20 had a risk of them using their ki, it getting absorbed by them. A cost, a risk.
Or in the Buu arc. Vegeta wanted to fight Goku again because they never had a rematch post Super Saiyan, but that came at the risk of Buu. But Vegeta had no choice because Goku would only be there for a day then back to the dead. Vegeta risked Buu waking up for his fight but he only had one option to get it. He at a cost became evil to force Goku to fight him. At the cost of him killing people and then they fought at the cost of Buu's energy waking him up. There was at least always a cause, an effect and a risk in the plot of the arcs to keep them interesting, Thats what tension is.
Super doesn't have that at all. Power ups have no cost, risk or consequence. In Z it was the Oozaru, the risk of losing your mind and the weakness of the tail being cut. Then with SSJ Goku risked losing control of his anger to it, when he yelled at Gohan. Freeza at 100% risked getting weaker because of body strain.
In the Cell arc, SSJ grade 2 cost the Saiyans their speed for muscle if they couldn't figure out how to ascend instead of power up. SS2 Gohan got it but at the cost of him losing himself to his Saiyan instincts and arrogance in the power difference. In the Buu arc, Majin Vegeta had to fight back against Babidi's commands to keep his released mind and power. SS3 the cost of the strain due to it being difficult to do outside of the afterlife or another dimension which was consistent. Fusion had the cost of either getting it wrong, or running out of time from power usage. Potata (formally had a cost unique to it) where it was irreversable. Fighting Super Buu was a risk because he could just absorb you if he was losing. Kid Buu as well or he'd just blow up the planet at random.
But in Super whats the cost of SS God? SSB? Hakai power? Ultra instinct? What are the risks, and consequences in the arcs?
Nothing. Freeza especially can just asspull power ups too, just training for a few minutes a day. Its awful.
What exactly makes any of these arcs interesting? Sure the TOP has the risk of getting deleted forever, but even that they just forfeited at the last minute because Zeno changed his mind.
The ONLY honest youtuber with a HONEST opinion of super and the current state of the DB franchise. Literally agreed entirely with every point made! Well done. You should be the one leading the writing for the show to be honest.
There’s so many dbs is trash videos though
@@yorknew423 I wonder why?
@@trapG0LD710😂😂
That guy Totally not Mark didn't seem like a huge fan and many others, don't know why you had to put ONLY in caps like no one else has done it before because I've seen plenty of them.
Imagine if staying calm to keep the blue/UI form was an actual challenge. And if they got too riled up, they'd lose the form until they calmed back down. The enemy might goad them and attack their friends. And you could have some internal struggles with them suppressing the rage they usually use to power up during fights.
It might have actually felt like a unique thing rather than a generic power up.
EXACTLY. That’s never portrayed correctly in the show! It would be so interesting to see them accidentally fall out of the form if they can maintain their emotions or remain focused while in a fight.
Yeah they could use the form when raging but they wouldn’t be able to contain it nor use it at it’s fullest. The calm and tranquil will allow Goku and Vegeta to use SSB to it’s fullest.
Thank you very much.
I remember back when the writers gave actual weaknesses to their power ups beyond "Muh stamina".
It would also be an incredibly interesting twist on the original concept with Super Saiyan 1 and 2. Goku at first became far more violent and brutal when he transformed, and Gohan was even more extreme turning downright sadistic. Completely twisting that and having a form which works on the exact opposite rules would be really unique. It could also lead to good character stuff. You'd assume Vegeta would be worse at this for obvious reasons, but he spent 20 years with his empire dead and as a lackey to Frieza. He's got more control over himself than anyone else, or else he'd be dead. The lack of self-control is a response to the constant need for controlling himself, he just can't keep the mask on 24/7. Goku has no self-control at all. It would be really neat for Vegeta to actually be better with the best form because controlling empathy and compassion is his strong suit.
Didn't they do this in the manga? When Merus got erased because he used all his angle powers, goku was trying to stay calm to actually achieve MUI?
DBS just doesn’t have the high stakes and genuine moments that made the audience feel something. Too many power ups and I honestly hate SSB. I just didn’t like it.
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That is true like this literally takes place before end of z so we know all the characters are okay so there is no suspense
I agree
super saiyan blue it
Honestly, it’s not the power ups that doesn’t make sense. Goku is completely okay. it’s simply Toriyama making his other characters exponentially stronger over the sagas just to make them look tough for the plot. Take Android 17 for example when he was on par with SSB Goku. He wouldn’t of even stand a chance against SSJ 2 back in Z. This is the only problem i have with Super.
I think super shows whats wrong with a lot of anime in general.
dumbing down of characters, constant gags, not funny jokes.
just feels like a lot of this is just made for 11 and under.
This man is so honest and truly understands why people regard the original and z so much instant subscription for honesty 😊
Thank you so much!
The worst spit on the face was when Piccolo lost TO A FUCKING BUG in Top
Piccolo is the new Yamcha. How can anyone claim to be a fan of dragon ball and yet support DBS and think it's a quality series?
Ok out of all the things you are right
@@JellyNightSquid94 shut up dude no one cares about your judgement on other opinions learn to accept others
@@fatman7052 that’s not what he’s saying but ok.
@@codered1132 I was a little annoyed when I commented this
Everything you said about Goku Black and the Future Trunks arc deserves a standing ovation. That arc had the most potential in Super imo🤦🏾♂️
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As nonsensical as the arc was, I actually liked it..........until the ending. The final episode was an absolute disgrace. I'd be more willing to forgive Spirit Sword over whatever the hell happened there
the evil containment botch was cringe
Goku black was a good villian. But they ruined Trunks..Dbz trunks was Nice asf!!
@@premiumdude8353 real talk, him forgetting the senzu beans was bad enough but the evil containment wave part was horrible writing, how could he forget the seal for the rice container smh
The thing about Ribrienne... as a Magical Girl fan she was _extra_ annoying because she was meant to be an insult to Magical Girl characters- and she wasn't even a good mockery. She could have been done well as a parody- even a mean spirited one- and maybe even been funny, but they instead just wrote her to be as annoying as possible. It's like _Toriyama forgot_ that the series is meant to be fun, not annoying. And on top of that, *why would you create a character specifically to annoy fans, and then give them a solid, what, ten episodes of screentime?* I very nearly didn't bother finishing after her fourth time taking a spotlight.
To make the parody ironic, Toei owns Sailor Moon and Pretty Cure, so that means they made a joke that didn't quite work on a genre two out of four their most popular anime come from.
One of the problems is also the fandom. We all know it, most db "fans" only care about seeing new transformations and cool looking fights and will always call hype a rage scene no matter the context. They'll continue to ruin dragon ball because most fans dont even see the problem. They dont even know what was dragon ball to begin with
My issue with Super is that it doesn’t feel like it has stakes or suspense. In dragon ball z, we had the frieza saga which gave us the iconic super saiyan transformation but it was a journey to reach that point and one that was worth it. In Super, it just feels like generic anime in some parts and the way some of the other characters are treated is just sad.
Not to mention in GT we had the Dragons and Baby. Baby was a legitimately threatening villian.
In Dragon Ball Z, no character was left behind. Even in the Cell Saga, Yamcha, Tien, and even Chi-Chi contributed. But then you look at Super, and wonder where every other Z Fighter went. At this point, the only important ones are the Saiyans and Piccolo.
And then there's the repeated bastardization and humiliation of one of the most memorable villains in anime, Frieza. Goku and Vegeta have gotten so powerful, that this once mighty threat is just a weekly "we have to deal with you, send you back to hell, and then repeat ad nauseam" comic book villain. That's honestly disheartening.
Ah yes, Future fucking Trunks arc had no stakes, fucking correct.
At least in Frieza saga and Cell Saga it had a lot stakes and suspense! At least they had to think of something in order to get the job done. In this tournament of power, there were so many problems that I lose count. I couldn't tell where is the ring out is at since they were like jumping on floating rocks. Can't they quickly repair it? It's so similar to the Cell games since Cell blow the ring up then they didn't have to worry about the ring anymore.
@@spiralmatt8946 They could.
I miss when Goku was the underdog that put everything he had into fighting his opponents. Now he's grown into a guy who views everyone else as the underdog who have to "force" him to take a fight seriously, except even WHEN he brings out SSB, he holds back so much he's able to fight weaklings like Krillin without accidentally killing him. It's hard to tell a fight is serious when the main character is constantly underestimating his opponents because of how much his power has grown. In my opinion, SSG should have been the apex of Goku's power and the end of the entire franchise, fanbase be damned.
Thank you! Ssg should have been the end of all transformations. It would have been so clever, let enemies underestimate his looks only for goku to show that raw power. Plus it wouldn't be typical more muscles equals more strength, its thin and lean. And it could have made goku fight in a new way, being more calm and tactical. That would have made a smoother transition to ultra instinct (not the master version.) You can't even called it mastered ultra instinct because it's not even mastered. It should have just been omen, it would have made alot more sense, since gods of destruction can't master it, goku shouldn't have either. Ssg should have been the strongest transformation goku has and ultra instinct omen be his strongest technique.
@@leultrainstinct406 its hard to see super goku as an underdog when he doesn't grow and continues to lose and look like a rookie still despite having 40 years of experience, that's honestly sad.and no goku doesn't get help he gets saved by the gods and by bull shit writing.goku gets trashed down alot in super he obviously isn't holding back and checking out his opponents,if he is it ain't noticeable at all.SSJ4 and SSJ Blue are both fine tho
Let’s all remember it wasn’t goku that beat Cell it was Gohan and he needed the spirit bomb (which was the combined power of everyone in earth) to defeat Buu
Ssg should have been the only form in Super I agree.
@@leultrainstinct406 ur gonna forget ressurection f when goku stole the win from Vegeta, achieved the fancy schmancy forms to fight Beerus and Jiren first? Sure gt was also responsible for something similar but the goku winning formula wasn’t so prominent as it is today. And if ki control means spamming blue hair dye for no reason then it’s actually quite stupid. Like you don’t need to go ssgss in a base ball match or against arale
"Wasted potential" might as well be the name of the damn show. That's what sucks the most- that we see that potential for greatness and it gets thrown in the trash.
Great video man 👌
They said the same thing about GT but at least GT had cool designs, most DBS transformations are lame recolors and even the new villain (Jiren) was the lamest design in all of Dragon Ball at least the Manga gave us Moro to make up for it. When I saw Jiren I knew Toriyama had given up and just wanted to be left alone, there's no way someone as talented as him would draw that, look at it and decide it should be the main villain. DBS never had a chance
“Such wasted potential” - Kuai Liang (MK11)
Fan mangas are waaay better man
I feel that as time moves on, people will appreciate GT more and more, flaws and all, with it's unique stories, movies, and characters.
Except for 17 coming back
Eventually people will want GT to continue as the “canon” continuation to Z.
Nah, GT is utter garbage, and it gets worse and worse while time passes
ssj4 was awesome the cmon
@@tiagocarneiromagalhaes3153 no. Shadow dragon saga made sense and was perfect way to close the series
I'll never forgive the writers for ruining super saiyan and super saiyan god
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Mainly God like damn your just gonna make it useless right after Goku just got it
@@leultrainstinct406 is your back tingling?
They ruined it?
Syndrome's plan worked... "When everyone is super, no one will be."
Edit: Didn't expect the traction. Thank you kind strangers!
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Had a feeling you would catch that. Great content bro. Keep it up.
@@Law34prez nice incredibles refrence bruhh droppin GEMS!
@@theruddyone6443 They tried to warn us! Lol
"When everyone is a hero, no one is anymore."
I felt like the SSJ God form (with red hair) should’ve been Goku and Vegeta’s god forms for the entirety of super, up until Ultra Instinct. I felt like once we got the God form it was instantly replaced by Super Saiyan Blue (which in my opinion is the point in which I said there are too many transformations).
Plus, it is cool that it is a color change of their base hair. It made it feel special.
The thing about Future Trunks is that he would have jumped at the Super Saiyan God ritual. He was not someone ruled by his pride, and was always much more focused on getting the job done. It could have been a great contrast to the feelings Goku expresses during Battle of Gods. Suppose the reason he came back was not to beg for Goku and Vegita to come with him and fight his battles for him, but because he somehow learned about the ritual and came back to the main timeline because he knew there were enough Saiyans alive to perform the ritual in that timeline.
most comments on this video, usually stupid or annoying, but this i adore, this could legit be good and could've had some type of ssjrage afterwards and it make more sense as his hybrid version of ssjb
I remember the year, 2005 to be precise, when I was watching Goku ask everyone to lend him energy to defeat Kid Buu. I lifted my arms high and proudly on that day, cheering him on. Those were the days, Vegeta wasn't chasing Goku's power anymore and respected him, choosing to get stronger for himself and his loved ones.
And when Goku woke up from the heart virus you get a little emotional because you felt like it’s going to be all right.
:')
No you do gawk gawk
Yesss that part made me want to put my hands up too.
Just like some star wars fans did with the sequels, I would gladly sign a petition to make DB Super non canon, this thing made me appreciate GT so much more.
Funny how at the start of the sequels, people were trashing the prequels.
Then TLJ came out and the prequels ruled.
Now even in the disney SW series they are doing stuff mostly in the prequel era, like Obi-wan (and still failing.
I would too, super ruined so many great things. Fusion, future trunks became a bitch, gokus character, and villains, just feels like a bad fanfic.
@@denkerbosu3551 I think they only dislike the prequel movies (*except episode 3 as it gotten a really nice amount of money*) until more lore came out like the two clone war shows,comics and novels to help make that help to become more likeable.
B r u h
@@mrphauker and we will never forget neither forgive vegeta being a mf who dance, but you're 100% right dbs is such a bad fan fic that it made me nuts to think that its canon
The best compliment I can give Super is "It's like a fan fiction that has a couple of cool scenes, yet it completely spits in the face of the original and every so often you feel like the authors never watched the original."
Cell saga was peak DB for me
Super is like bad fanfiction. Repetitive. Unoriginal. Poorly executed. There aren't even motivations, it's all 'eh, I guess I'll do this' or 'I need to get stronger because.' Full of prejudice (ie it's all goku and vegeta. To the point that they are themselves a parody of the Z counterpart, even regressing from previous arcs). Focuses on all the things fans like (fighting and forms) and none of the things fans don't realize they actually love (the cast, the unpredictability, failure + growth and the slice of life nature of its narrative). Sadly, even though it focuses completely on fighting there are never any stakes because with only two characters no one can really get hurt or die. Even the obstacles feel fake given the terrible scaling. It's all fluff.
I'd take an arc about small time criminals trying to get revenge on the Z fighters for accidentally stopping a robbery over the twentieth universal scale power battle.
Everything about Super just screams bad fanfiction.
"Super Saiyan... but BLUE!!!"
"Female Broly!!!"
"Evil version of Goku!!!"
It's all so hilariously awful.
Yeahh... thing is, in my opinion... many of the fan mangas totally surpass Super in every way. They should've just animated Dragon Ball multiverse, or something.
Even more the antagonists are soo bad. Oh I will come here and destroy earth (especially the latest two Manga arcs) . Oh let us make a tournament.
I've read some fan made mangas recently that were better drawn and had more soul in the story than super lol
@@stoheha Multiverse is one of the worst fan mangas out there.
And they literaly stole it already.
UA-cam: You're limit is the 10min mark boi
Saiyan scholar: You underestimate my power and knowledge of dragonball
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Saiyan Scholar: (Hits 10 minute mark) AND THIS IS TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND!!!
UA-cam: NANI?!!!
@@craigpeoples9883 lol
I just realized it was 2 hours long lmao
That’s why I read Dragon Ball Kakumei.
If you don’t know, Dragon Ball Kakumei is a fan manga that is infinitely better than super and brings back the heart and story telling of Z. The art is also like if Yusuke Murata (the manga artist for One Punch Man) drew in the DB style. It’s honestly so good and if you are a Dragon Ball fan, you owe it to yourself to read it.
Where do I find this or read it? Can physical form be found?
@@Dylan-cu4ty idk about physical form, but you can find online if you search it up.
Man that shit is gold, I love it I don't even want it animated they'll ruin it.the art is amazing
I love GT. GT is the reason I got into Dragon Ball and I liked how it tried to be like OG and early Z and less of later Z that many make fun of like less fighting and more beams and jokes about how the next super sayian is just SSJ3 but even longer hair (it's why I like SSJ4 because it's different and called back it's original and isn't just SSJ3 with longer hair or SSJ1 but different color.)
My favorite DB games are the ones that include GT stuff.
To this day I still want a GT DLC for Dragon Ball Kakarot like how they made DLC for Super stories.
Also blame DBA for these character assassinations
I keep telling my friends that there's no way krillin should've stood a chance against .3% of what ssj blue goku is but no goku wasn't trying
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I mean of course
I really like Dragon Ball GT. It does have its problems, just like Super has its problems - however, I seem to notice the passion that was put into GT. The original Dragon Ball has been overshadowed by Z, and instead of making a Z clone - it seems that they tried to combine the two whilst also making its own concepts - Black Star Dragon Balls, Super Saiyan 4 being its own unique design and not just a hair dye. The Dragon Balls actually having purpose other than being a plot device. Unlike Super, GT actually has stakes and consequences thankfully taking place after the end of Z.
As someone who had to adjust to his heritage and finally became proud of his heritage and didn't shy away from it, Goku Jr is probably the most relatable character for me. So please keep in mind my biases and I don't hate Super.
GT is a love letter to fans. It’s a shame we are just understand it now.
@ClubHop I rewatched gt and super and gt is so clear of super. Much better show even though I don’t mind super
Garbage power scaling
Ruining characters
Adding terrible “Villains”
Terrible side characters
Playing off nostalgia
I’ve been saying this for years, the passion of Dragon Ball z has been besmirched. The DBZ I once grew up wasn’t about marketing schemes methods for Toei to sell SSJ on cereal box, action figures. Transformations after transformation with no actual real resolutions behind it. The tournament was the nail in the coffin, the writers and the corporate investors don’t care about the fans, it’s what’s making them the funds and the funds for “Garbage.” Dragon Ball Gt and Dragon Ball evolution make more sense than super itself 🤦🏽♂️ I’m not looking forward for the next arc, it’s all bullshit fan base ideas so they can sell transformations on cereal boxes. They’ve clearly discharged every hardcore DB fan base that grew up with this series. Honestly it’s a big slap in the face to the Dragon ball Universe. 📝 I’m glad you’ve done this review, there’s too much bandwagon reviewers, their not thinking about the concept and plot what the shows meant to be based on 🗣️📝
With all due respect my man but you're absolutely wrong. Many decisions of DBZ were taken money wise or fan-base wise, leaving Vegeta alive, extending the Frieza's battle, THE ENTIRE ANDROID-CELL SAGA WAS REWRITTEN BECAUSE TOEI ANIMATION DIDN'T LIKE NEITHER ANDROID 18 AND 19 OR DR GERO AS VILLAINS, Super Saiyan 3, the multiple Buu forms, etc.
The existence of things like Cell himself were forced into the manga by Toei. But I get what you mean.
I'm glad you agree that Goku's character was downgraded in some type of way. There have been people that say that his character hasn't changed, but there was a noticable difference in Super. I get that DBS was supposed to be kid friendly but they took away the aspects of Goku that we knew and loved. I ended up liking Vegeta as a character more and more as Super went on because you could see the notable character growth for him while my love for Goku decreased as Super continued until midway through the TOP. Loved the video!!!!
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I hate that they pretty much continued Vegetas character arc of needing to be stronger than Goku
But Gokus intelligence drop was ridiculous and even worse imo. Yes we know he isn’t a “hero”, we know he fights for fun. Stop making him into an idiot though, Toriyama! The man would be serious if his universe was at stake, he’d want to beat Jiren not just cause he’s strong but because he knows he has to pass this hurdle to save his loved ones and many innocents.
@@ziongamer6905 It would've been fitting in a way and would've been a better way to introduce the idea that Vegeta was going to achieve power in his own way like he was saying in the TOP. I don't think Goku becoming less intelligent or kid friendly was Toriyama, it was whoever was in charge of writing the anime story because Toriyama just gave them a guideline for stories and they had to add what they thought was good while keeping the notes that Toriyama sent it to them
Exactly. They did to goku what they did to patrick star and cosmo. Characters that werent the smartest had that dumb trait amped up
Lee Moore the only people who think super goku is the same as Japanese z goku are TFS fanboys, watch the last dragon ball saga in Japanese against Majunor, you’ll see Japanese goku at 18 is far smarter and far less silly as super goku
I just don't like how Super doesn't seem like it has much of a story with any weight to it. Everything just feels like a self-contained long filler arc, and Beerus and Whis always being around just feels like they're hanging onto the series and living plot armor. There just doesn't seem to be much direction for the characters anymore. Its just "new thing shows up" like Smash Bros. And the whole thing with alll the characters other than Goku is just. "they want to protect their off screen families" as their shared motivation isnt really a plotline. Its a generic default status. Like they became the Justice League now, and not really anti-herioc martial artists anymore. I just don't think Super really does anything better than GT other than just better fights. GT had better arc plots imo.
Lol like Tien shienhan isn't also a prodigy, or idk LITERALLY every single fighter in dragon ball smh. Super has Shockingly bad writing at times.
Every fucking character in dragon Ball is a fucking prodigy... Master Roshi took 50 years to do the Kamehameha while Goku took 50 seconds, Tien literally made master Roshi quit martial arts even though he was a teenager, piccolo became stronger than his own father within 3 years of existing, Frieza without any training could actually hold his own with the legendary Super Saiyan and trained for 4 months so he could fight ssjb goku, the Android's we're stronger than SSJ by default and 17 became ssjb level from training on a fucking island, Gohan with only 4 years of training beat cell who was literally made up of all the strongest beings to exist at the time, Goten and trunks became SSJ at an earlier age than Gohan, Buu is the literal incarnation of evil, etc. Why is it so fucking weird for caulifla and kale to do the same exact shit every fucking character did? How can she be a mary sue? She has zero fucking wins and got humiliated by Goku. Goku was literally training her.
@@averyhepburn8092 because it's dumb. No one but super fanboys liked the frieza or 17 getting that strong with zero explainations nor did anyone like goten and trunks getting ssj that early. By kale and caulifla people had just gotten tired of asspulls
Sorry there were grammar mistakes that my phone corrected.
To be completely fair caulifla and kale turned into mary Sues only because they were rushed, same goes for jiren. If only the story didn't rush their development, they could've been great. There were times it came really really REALLY close to being good. For instance jiren's backstory instead of just having jiren say "oH fRieNds aRe UseLeSs" over and over. They could instead delve deeper into how he disconnects himself from people because of his fear of lost, combined with his pain of betrayal and abandonment by his old friends. They got super close to it during the battle with goku but they ultimately just said "nah f*ck it, just make him swole." Same with kale and caulifla, especially kale. Her fear of being abandoned and left behind or being a burden to caulifla could've been explored more. Maybe a flashback of how caulifla always had to protect her and maybe even gets injured trying to. Perhaps delve a little deeper into why caulifla likes kale so much, it's not really explained, from the way caulifla is portrayed, it would seem like she'd hate kale because of how weak she is. Instead of making kale universe 6's broly, they could've lead with that but surprise us and show that she's actually that universe's gohan. Similar to gohan, she hates herself for allowing people to get hurt for her and causing more bad than good when she goes berserk, eventually it builds up and she's finally able to let it go and control her power. And it could literally be as simple as just giving a WHOLE episode (not just parts of one) dedicated to exploring kale and caulifla and another one for jiren, seeing those were the only opponents slightly focused upon in the T.O.P.
these are just my opinions and ideas feel free to disagree
Love how "rage" became the go-to for super Saiyan transformations when it really was never about that in the first place. Goku embraced a sense of wrath, a desire to inflict suffering in order to achieve it. Vegeta dropped his pride and experienced self-loathing to find the power. Gohan finally accepted responsibility and found it. It was about dispelling a core aspect of their personality to find that power to transform. Saiyans have been one of the angriest, most violent beings in the universe for a very long time, and suddenly 'anger' is the way to bring out a transformation that hasn't been seen for 1000+ years, as if Saiyans are just the chillest hippy people. Give me a break.
Don't get me started on the lame 'tingle' of universe 6 saiyans, again as if no one in their entire evolutionary history felt a tingle in their back.
Honestly, everything after the Cell saga had horrendously bad writing, just shoe-horning things in for the sake of the plot they wanted to craft, despite all the precedent that had been established before hand. Oh Goten and Trunks are super saiyan at a tender young age, for . . . .reasons. . .
I'd love a 'What If" from you if dragon ball played by their own rules that were established early on.
My own head canon is that Goku and Vegeta were SS when Goten and Trunks were concieved.
Rage was originally always part of the transformation....rage and a pure heart. That was it. However it is quite difficult to obtain a pure heart while getting mad. Goku and Gohan obtain a good pure heart, vegeta an evil one.
The tingling back was lmfao awful
Goten and Trunks were super saiyans so that they could participate in the plot. If Goten and Trunks couldn't go super saiyan they would have had as much impact on the plot as Krillin. If that was the case they may as well have not existed.
My personal theory is that Toriyama originally had some idea to have Gotenks and Gohan beat Buu and thereby set them up as the new protectors of the Earth. Ending the story with Goku and Vegeta dead and the Saiyans extinct. But the fans/editors wouldn't have it.
@@LSgaming201 Yeah it's pretty clear the story was supposed to be handed off to Gohan after Cell, but fans and/or internal struggles with the staff forced him to change direction so we had Gohan didn't train for 7 years to make him weaker than Vegeta and Goku who train 24/7
Like seriously Gohan, did you not do anything but wake up an study for 16 hours a day?
I agree with you that Trunks and Goten had to become SSJ to become plot relevant and there very well may have been a plot that got cancelled where Gohan and Gotenks defeat Buu but unfortunately at the end of the day the show became Goku Time above all else. Though worth noting the Sayians aren't completely extinct even in your fan fiction of Vegeta and Goku being dead. There are still 3 half sayians which I think should count as they are genetically close enough to the originals, but yeah I get your point and would have liked to see it. Speaking of the bloodline, you'd think the prince of all sayians would at least try and have more than one kid, two if you count Bra in GT, just to try and preserve as much of his royal bloodline as possible.
@kayneassasin There was a point of about 50 episodes where the Saiyans are extinct. After Vegeta sacrifices himself against Buu, the Saiyans are extinct. Goku and Vegeta are both dead and Broly and Paragus weren't canon yet. So at that point. The Saiyans were indeed extinct.
These points are totally valid. Super is no where near the level of respect of Z. Terribly diluted quality and they made the characters stupid af
U should make a shirt saying "it's the writers fault"
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So he can take my time and then my money sure
@Cody Ingram OOOO but its written in like the logo style of that franchise thats a good idea man
@Cody Ingram thanks man id buy a terminator style one cuz FUCK that series is a big victim of its the writers fault
It's the fanboys fault.
1:53:33 pretty ironic how DBS fans say GT's worse than Super when GT kept Goku's character and fighting prowess consistent like how moves on Goku never work twice and he always works around it and how surprise attacks on Goku were genuine surprise attacks and not just Goku having his guard down bs
I love the way you articulate your opinions. You do a good job of expressing what a lot of people have felt over the years.
God I love your section on Goku, finally someone GETS IT!! A mature and respectable Goku who we can look up to, but who also when he does something silly like "MY BUTTS ON FIRE" in the frieza fight, it's actually a funny moment, a treasured part of his character. DBs destroyed him by turning him into a complete dumbass and I hate DBs Goku so much. Thank you for recognising this and bringing it out. You've solidified me as a fan of your work.
If you want a glimpse of a mature Goku I think you should read the db heroes manga. Xeno Goku is the most serious one.
Best goku was when he was trying to find bulmas balls
Turned goku into luffy
@@monicavulvatron3800 Dragon Ball heroes always does a great job of making Goku look like a toatal bad ass and a mentor. I enjoy watching those trailers where suddenly you and your hero feel like you'll be okay because SSJ3 Goku is standing right behind you looking more serious than Picollo
loved that section
I didn’t mind Universe 6 Saiyans being almost completely opposite of the Saiyans on Universe 7. It was just the execution and ruining of Super Saiyan that made them awful.
That and making Frost a Freiza clone was fucking atrocious.
True
@@Nephalem2002 Well it IS Universe 6 sooo....
@@tentaplayz3691 Actually, that should be the crudest but still effective way to justify Frost NOT being evil like Freeza, he just ended up being nothing more than a stereotype creator!
They could of made achieve super saiyan on their own before our universe met them it would make more sense
Something about super that i dont hear anyone mention is THEY TURNED MAI INTO A NEW CHARACTER, its a 30,40, maybe even 50 year old in a 9 year old body trying to marry a 12 year old kid and in the future trunks saga she is a whole new character
I’m glad more people are starting to realize super sucks
100% agree with everything. It felt soulless and directionless. The transformation fatigued and the shit treatment on the Z warriors so many missed opportunities wasted. My heart goes out to the animators that had to deal with forced hours by the company's demand and the death threat comments from their audience, they dont deserve any of it but the writers and staff production deserve every harsh criticism. I was one of those defensive people that defended "Super" cause I spent time and energy start to finish but while looking back on it, the journey was a huge headache and pain in the ass. There's some to like about "Super" slice of life moments and fights too. I was debating whether to collect the DBS anime on bluray to complete my DB series but instead I'll just stick with the physical manga and buy GT instead.
Bro refused to buy mid to buy below mid instead 💀
Yeah Super may be canon since it happens after Bulmas birthday party & before the final tournament when Goku fights uub In DBZ but since it was done soo bad & without love it’s a cartoon now that’s not canon In the eyes of fans. I think GT comes after DBZ ending since Goku is in his blue Gi & Pan was born in the last episode of Z by Gohan & now she’s a full grown teen in GT.
You put it perfectly.
Why dont' you just buy nothing and stop being a mindless consumer....
Least you admitted your mistake.
@@Soniman001super is WAYYY below mid too.
If I could sum up DBS in a one sentence it will be "Just add things, it will do great with the kids". Who cares about logic and established lore and world/character building.
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“dRagOn bAll dOeSnT hAvE cHaRaCtEr dEveLo-“
m.ua-cam.com/video/jc3SePFYqtY/v-deo.html
Not even just kids. It'll do well just because it's db.
This what happens when you milk a franchise.
The thing I like about Super is that it made people like GT
Well, I ALWAYS loved GT.
Oh I'm ready for this let me get comfortable.
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I literally grabbed dinner for this. Someone is right on like I am about this cash grab.
“That Dragonball fan who would stay up all night playing Budokai Tenkaichi 3 late at night”
That line was when I knew this video was going to be 🔥.
Bringing back memories
Why can't they make a game as good as Tenkaichi 3 bro why
literally made me tear up
good old times 💪
Let’s be real this man could write a version of dbs immeasurably better than the what we got.
Even the writers could but they intentionally ruined it to sell the fkin toys ... That's why so many transformations.. they didn't gave a single form a chance to grow and they didn't used any character other than Goku and Vegeta .. look at Gohan, Goten & Trunks(both) .. they're sidelined bcz they could make money while writing a completely lazy storyline with minimal effort
@@kumarayush9950 Fr
@@kumarayush9950 The writers of Dragon Ball Super are greedy fools.
While the DBS has tarnished the original dragon ball franchise, we still have Dragon Ball fan mangas. Dragon Ball multiverse anyone?
That DISGRACE part will never get old
Looll
Dbs fanboy: I bEt yOu wOn'T fInD 10 iSsUeS aBoUt dBs!!
Saiyan Scholar: Hold my "what the hell happened".
Lmfao
I could hold a lecture about all issues in Super and release books about it. There are that many.
@@M3rtyville And there is a lot of issues in dragon ball gt too. But I still like it both have their flaws, But that doesn't stop me from thinking it was a good series.
@@jameslopez5442 Gt's flaws are mild compared to Super.
Z and original Dragon Ball had also their flaws.
Super's flaws are far more damaging. And there is more bad than good. I can't name anything good about Super from the top of my head.
People that hate GT, even those who didn't watch it, can name things that are good about it.
@@M3rtyville If that show didn't had the word "dragon ball" attached to it nobody would have watched that trash
Toriyama just needs to stop being lazy and stop with the napkin note writing. If he doesn’t want to do full writing he should just stop and leave the series.
I don't think I realised how bad dbs was until I started rereading the original dragon ball. The original dragon ball actually had soul, the writing was impeccable, the power-ups were fun and feel deserved, Krillin, Yamchan, and Tien were actually impressive and Tien became my favourite character. dbz was an entirely different ball game, the Super Saiyan was an incredible transformation and actually felt deserved. To this day I don't understand where Super Saiyan blue came from, we suddenly had blue and the original super saiyan god was nerfed and we didn't even see its proper potential. I liked the original Bardock far more than the dbs Bardock which is just a rehashed Superman story.
I still like dbs, I still read the manga, but my god it's just so entirely bad.
Dragon Ball was legitimately amazing. Krillin was a true badass in it.
The absolute truth can NEVER be debunked! Thank you, Scholar. This video does my soul good. BTW this review had more heart in it then the actual thing!
Thank you Scholar! And that's why I'm sad... That this had more heart than WHAT WE DESERVED! 👊🏻
Word I enjoyed watching you tear the show apart more than watching the show.
#GFM
@@SaiyanScholar all things that i was hiding in my heart . you said it bro ,OUR THOUGHTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. WE COULD BE GREAT FRIENDS
@@jeffreytorres2539 bruh😂
Dragonball fans fall into two categories...
Those who stopped at Z and those who suffer from clinical depression...
LOL
I stop in Gt, and i prefer to believe that Dbs never existed and Dbgt is cannon.
if I had to give a note to these two I would give:
Dbgt: 5/10
Dbs: 2/10
@@ElissonDSouza if this makes you feel a bit better I heard a theory that super is canon to dbz kai and gt is canon to the original series
Goddamn that is true for me!
I suffer an high case of disillusion because of dbs just keeping to be a disappointing mess, AND STILL BEING CONSIDERED GOOD by seemingly the majority of fans!
I'm part of the "should've ended at Z" crowd.
DBS fanboys watching this:🤡🙄🤬
Me who watch DB and enjoyed it: 🗿👌
Why is there a perfected blue when blue as a concept requires absolute ki control to achieve. Meaning that there shouldn’t be any more perfecting it.
One thing I've learned lately is how to let go of a series that used to be good. So many series have an amazing season or two then dwindle off. I've learned to stop watching if there's enough bad episodes in a row.
Bad shows? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Lol like one punch man season 2 garbage
Here's a number of shows that suffered from a decline in quality due to multiple seasons
1. SpongeBob SquareSpants
2. Loud House
3. Johnny test
4. The Simpsons
honestly this is messed up, people wish that new shows would be like their own childhood but wake up its not 1992 anymore
u guys think that because dragon ball super isint dragon ball z u find an excuse to critisize it because it isint ur childhood its not about what u want its about what toriyama wants to do with the franchise. he ended Z because he wanted to go on to new things like super.. just like how naruto ended and boruto came along thats the same thing toriyama is doing with dragon ball
plus u guys say some things are lazy but cut them some slack, they work their asses off to give us a good show and u guys critisize them because its not *nostalgic*
@@MemeRaider Messed up part is that the manga is actually very good, but season 2 just sucked as an adaptation.
My biggest problem is how they changed Goku and Vegeta
1: Goku was much serious and less stupid in DBZ
2: Goku doesn't care if a universe blows up, he only cares about fighting and rarely takes it seriously, not only that but the only time be seemed actually serious is in the Goku Black saga when Black killed Chi Chi and Goten.
2: Vegeta was peaceful, and had huge characters development more then ever, he even shared food with Majin Buu for god sake. He even sacrificed himself to protect Goten and Trunks, he agreed to fuse with Goku permanently(even though it wasn't permanent.) And admitted to himself that Goku was #1.
Yeah that’s true
But no. Toriyama just decided to regress them for the sake of making more money.
Exactly,they ruined vegetas character and made him into a literal joke too,vegeta during the climax of the buu saga was very mature and addmited that goku was #1 but now in supers hes very whiny and still acts like a bozo
@@darling.............. & they even regressed Bulma too.
@@rubberballoonlover5471 I assume you're referring to the "using the Dragon Balls to make herself younger or give her a bigger butt" thing. If that's the case, I do agree wholeheartedly.
I miss being able to say "Goku is one of my favorite mc's" I can't do that now cuz
A. Super exist
B. I watched One Piece and JoJo's
Z Goku was my hero
One thing I really hate about Blue is how absolutely stunning the color is. I'm not a big fan of the golden hairs, but goddamn, I prefer that any time over that weird blue coloration. If they wanted to transmit tranquility, they could have easily used the aura. Imagine the interior being just a regular Goku, maybe with a soft blue to his hair, but with a cool "spirit-like" aura surrounding him. Anything that made the coloration less aggressive, because when I look into such a shiny solid color that looks like it's on fire I don't feel like the warrior is tranquil, I feel like he has a personal vendetta against my eyes.
Edit: I now saw again the image of Ultra Instinct and... yeah, guess that's exactly what I was describing. Regular Goku surrounded by a darker tone of blue in a spirit-like aura. Perfect design, I really agree that it should have gone from God straight to Instinct. Also, the name for Ultra Instinct in Portuguese is basically *Superior* Instinct and I just love this name so much.
For it was mostly the opposite: I really love the golden-fiery transformation of super saiyan, and it was my biggest reason for hating ssj blue. Ssj blue is essentially not only a mockery of the original ssj transformation by just being a lazy palette swap, it is also an awkward choice of blue shiny hair that I’ve always thought looked rather bad. Maybe if you like the color blue you’ll enjoy the look of this transformation, but for me it’s one of the most horrendous transformations ever achieved by the main characters.
If they wanted to make goku go ssj in god form they should have just gone with an orange aura, but instead of having the hard-looking and shiny hair-they could have just left it looking sorta spiky, but mostly flowy (like how goku’s hair looked when the wind blew during his stare-off against vegeta before they fought in the saiyan saga) and not make it look shiny to represent the “calmness” of the transformation.
if it were a nice blue like Vegeta's evolved version it'd have been fine. instead they chose to use some ugly ass cyan for the form.
I don't like how frivolously SSJ Blue was used and how easy other characters can be on the same level by doing nothing, such as Android 17 fighting human poachers and automatically surpassed Majin Buu and can fight against SSJ Blue Goku.
They never even had to make SSB a form. Honestly they could have made a mastered god form have the SSJ look but with the badass red/fire aura.
IT woudl've been...
Fire.
haha i'm hilarious and you'll quote this
Ssj God to ultra ego or ultra instinct would of been cool
Nah
Just orange, not a blue color which I don't know where it comes from.
ssg looks way better than ssb too
The passionate “that dragon ball fan” speech at the beginning rivals Goku’s super saiyan speech on namek. That passion, preach! Literally your video at that point alone is already better than most other db youtubers videos put together. Bravo my friend 👏🏼
👊🏻 Thank you Scholar.
Preach for the true speaker of the community! 👍
@@SaiyanScholar gt has bad things but super simpely 99% of time sucks
I feel like Z was perfection, we want more Dragon Ball, but it’s never going to be as good as Z, specifically the Namek Saga was just.. peak story telling and quality.
I think the Cell Saga was better. It had so much going for it.
Probably Hot take: Cell saga was the end of the Dragon ball series for me. After that everything else went downhill from there. That doesn't mean I wanted Cell to come back (like they did with Frieza) but he was the best villain for the anime to end on.
Plus it was written for Goku to pass the torch to his son. It made perfect sense as a conclusion to the series.
For me the buu saga was good only because of how random it was , and Hercules character development was perfect , vegetas sacrifice, the introduction of gotten and gohan future wife Videl
Now this is a true fan of dragon ball taking the time to explain in detail how the series is. really great video and explaination as always
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@@SaiyanScholar 👊
The fact people can't see these problems and needs to be spoon fed is laughable. But they'll find a way to defend the bullshit. They're the problem. They're the reason we can't have nice things
@@JellyNightSquid94 yeah it's kinda sad people try to explain everything that super puts out like that tingly back shit
@@zoomer4358 And what's worse is that they act like GT is the biggest letdown. I am no GT fan but Super did way worse in it's first arc than GT in it's entirety.
DBGT: Do you believe your own hype that much?
DBS: I AM HYPE!!!!!
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This!!
Ssj4 Vegeta : kill him !
@@leultrainstinct406 nice bait. Toriyama never said he hated gt, he actually liked it. You only want to believe he hated it because you hate it. Your pathetic.
@@leultrainstinct406 pathetic
Z found multiple ways for the humans to contribute even tho they weren’t nearly as strong as the saiyans or the main villains, tien with the tri beam against cell all the humans who fought the saiyans and all the stuff krillin did on namek
Man imagine if they actually let goku die and Gohan was the hero the next generation grew up with .. Then old fans like us could say "you think Gohan is badass you should have seen his dad when he was alive"
So with SSG I thought any battle against someone as strong with that would basically destroy the universe, but then with blue being a stronger power, and freeza going from where he was to literally stronger than SSG out of nowhere, why didn't that fight alone destroy the universe?
THIS
Finally i found someone else who notices how much bullshit the ssg goku vs beerus fight is when it came to "shaking the universe"
Because of ki control... you know, the thing they learned in z.... the thing they mention
I think dragon ball needs to just take a leap of faith and let them fight in space not just a new planet. That’s what it should have been as a Super Saiyan God form. Just so fans can’t complain about the whole fighting on the planet thing. I definitely agree that worlds should be destroyed but come on by the fight with Cell they definitely had planet crushing ability just by shock waves of fighting on the planet. The way I see it is that it’s been a problem for a long time and at this point it’s just a logic we need to accept if they are not gonna fight in space. They have multi planet and universal but fight on the ground for scenery.
@@arthurparlette7642 Theres no point in new forms and power scaling if the fights are functionally the same. Who cares if goku can “shake an infinite void” hes still punching kicking and shooting lasers. Boring as hell
To emphasize how strong the villains are, you can’t have planet level opponents forever because goku and vegeta could just eventually surpass them. With this logic, anything past the original and early saiyans saga is practically pointless. The escalation is simply for fun, granted it does look stupid that universe busters don’t actively blow everything up. Even villains who supposedly want to kill everyone. There is practically nothing stopping frieza fork blowing up the earth and doing away with the saiyans in one fellow swoop.
Saiyan Scholar, you're a GODDAMN ROLE MODEL!
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this video reminded me how ugly the artstyle was on the anime holy shit
I think they should have made a Goku Jr. series/manga after GT. The DBZ chars had long run its course and the power levels were so incredibly high that they needed a reset.
I'll tell you what happened. Dragon Ball Z had a resurgence in popularity and some studio big wigs thought it would be a good idea to bring it back. when they made Dragon Ball Super, they ignored the shows that came before it and toned it down to be more kid friendly.
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Too bad we live in this times when only a few companies actually care about money more than content like toei which pretty much sums up what db is today, a cash cow. But because it's db it'll never die or lose popularity
@@goki2607 true man but at least they deliver meaningful shit that's true to the comics and franchise
@@goki2607 the MCU started off caring, but I feel like they stopped caring at some point in phase 3.
@@goki2607 Endgame was not a good movie. I thought I liked it at first, but that was just because of the hype. after some time passed, I realized that it actually sucks. most major character development happened off screen. it completely wasted opportunities for good storytelling that was built up. Bruce Banner and the Hulk becoming one happened off screen, despite being built up since the Incredible Hulk. Iron Man learning how to forgive not only Captain America, but also his own dad. Rocket dealing with the loss of the Guardians of the Galaxy, which was built up in the second Guardians movie. Captain America undid his character arc from Age of Ultron when he said that he didn't want a family anymore. Black Widow didn't even get her own funeral, she had one scene where everyone was sad and that was it. her death should have been devastating on Hulk, since their romance had been built up in Age of Ultron. Thanos in Endgame is a different Thanos than the one in Infinity War, so this movie gives us no reason to care about him since his personality is different. Captain Marvel didn't even need to be in the movie because she contributed nothing that couldn't be done by other characters. if the Infinity Stones being gone is so bad, then why hasn't the main MCU timeline been completely destroyed by not having Infinity Stones for 5 years? why didn't the Avengers go back in time to when Thanos had all the Infinity Stones, just slightly before the snap and cut his head off while Thor was trying to make Thanos suffer? if Captain America traveled back in time to an alternate timeline and never returned, how did he show up in the main timeline as an old man? especially since Hulk literally stated in this movie why that wouldn't work. why did they ruin a potentially great scene where Iron Man and Nebula find their way to Earth by having Captain Marvel just randomly find and save them? it would've worked much better if they had Iron Man get back using only his genius and limited tech. it would mirror Iron Man 1 perfectly and it would've worked great seeing as it was Iron Man's last movie. one scene that I really liked was when Ant-Man made it back to the world to find half of everyone gone. I was expecting some heartwarming dialogue with him and his daughter, but it never came and it was just skipped over. Star-Lords return to Earth should've been a big moment for him, seeing as he hasn't been there since he was a kid. I know they couldn't have that much time to do much, seeing as the movie has a lot of characters, but I would've liked to see him look around or saying something about Earth, but we didn't get anything close.
**Sees notification and thinks it’s the usual 5 to 10 minute video**
**sees its 2 hours**
Me: 👁👄👁 **prepares snacks for this journey**
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dragon ball gt (sub) feels like a flawed love letter to the series past. super (all forms) feels like akira toriyama's retirement fund started running low, and he knew that dragon ball was too big to fail, so itd be fine to just disney it. i cant even say it didnt set out to debase gt, because it spits in the face of the saiyan legacy that gt gives full reverence towards. i know which one sounds like the better show to me, and its very clearly the former.
Never forget that db super gaves us the brilliant meme "dont shoot, he is not Black"
So glad I came across this video. Always felt in the minority when I would say Super sucked and ruined Goku. Fans are in denial.
True
i wouldn't say there in denial, just the few who like it. dragon ball super has done more damage to dbz than anything else. the fandom has only gone down as of late. to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I remember people were still comparing dbz to shows all the way up to resurrection f. People were still talking about dbz, it fan creations, the hate for gt was still strong. i remember it all. then super came out, and all that began to die slowly. nowadays, only a few die hard are still acting like it was 10 years ago. it sad
I kinda like Super but at the same time it does suck.
XD
the problem is its just like music if the new music is the it thing quote on quote people will like it cuz ots new and its music but not all new things are good I never lolee super never will watch it unless I have friends telling me watch this or watch that I'm the same with music and vars not all new things ate hoid that's just me
I knew Super was going to suck from day 1. From Battle of Gods, I knew that if it wasn’t a stand alone film, they had ruined Dragonball. How? Because if they continued, all it was going to be was another, generic power creep show. Goku gets the power of a FUCKING GOD! Literally the Super Sayian GOD. No one should be able to stand up to him, period. Goku is now the strongest mortal to have ever lived and to even hint that anyone would even come close to strong enough was laughable. Instead, we have Vegeta achieving the same thing off screen, and now they have a new transformation, and now Gohan is just as strong, and now Freeza is slightly stronger but he can’t maintain the form. Wait… FREEZA? The guy who couldnt stand up to a normal, brand new Super Sayian that had a fraction of the power of a Full Powered Super Sayian? Which was half as strong as a Super Sayian 2? Which was also left behind by Super Sayian 3, Mystic Gohan, and fusion powers? Freeza is now STRONGER than not only a god, but a god with the power of a Super Sayian? How? Oh… he TRAINED FOR FOUR MONTHS?!?!?!?! THATS IT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? And then it was all down hill from there. Now everyone is as strong as a god, other universes have people just as strong as Goku and Vegeta in base form just cause. New Sayians can turn Super Sayian 2 in a week. Everything that made Z great has been shit on or thrown out the window. Super is pure, unadulterated garbage and has been since its inception. I feel like Scholar is saying good things about the beginning only to soften the blow that Super is pure shit, because it was pure shit from the very beginning. There was NOTHING about the show that wasn’t generic and disrespectful to its past from DAY ONE. Ive never liked Super and to see everyone coming around because the initial hype has died down, the very same people who called me stupid or how i don’t know shit about Dragonball or whatever, are now making videos explaining why it sucks is frustrating at the least. Stop kidding yourself that Super was anything but a soulless, empty cash grab, because it wasn’t. Not even the parts that Scholar says he liked. They were shit wall to wall. Stop being blinded by nostalgia. Just because your favorite show is coming back doesnt make it good or even welcome. Remember that the creators have to actually care if you want your show to be anywhere near as good as it used to be.