I should mention, Sisters do have access to a unit in the elites slot which may upgrade to power axes, and thus in theory can fight terminators... if the terminators left home without lightning claws that is. Oh, and if it's Phoenix terminators, kiss your ass goodbye! The Sisters also lack any and all Daemonic counters, which sounds bizarre but it's true. It's like the designers were fixated on their counter-psyker to such an extent that they forgot daemons should dissolve in their presence. So, as it stands, something like a Daemon Prince just absolutely carves through them, whilst marine psykers kinda suffer. It's odd but it's true.
"All units with the Daemon special rule within 12" of any model with Psychic Anethema suffer -1 to their Toughness, or if they have an Armor value instead of Toughness, they add +1 to all rolls on the Vehicle Damage table they suffer when within this range" EDIT: Execution Blade - Piercing Cut: "To Hit rolls of a 5 or 6 made for attacks with this weapon are resolved separately at Ap 2."
Unfortunately they don't feel like real counters to me personally. I call hard-counters a true counter in this game, anything else is a buff/debuff. Pseudo rending against terminators just isn't enough, and it's wasted against marine units like Palantine Blades who'd lack a save anyway. But the big letdown is initiative, you don't have the initiative to kill the units you'd need to before they swing and wipe out most of your sisters. For the -1T on daemons, sure it helps sisters, but it isn't anywhere near as powerful as their effects on psykers, which is especially strange considering they are creatures of the warp, whilst psykers are physical beings. It almost has to work in such a way as daemons always take an automatic hit with a strength equal to their own toughness at the end of each turn where they are within 6" of a silent sister. You know, something that makes it imperative that they have to kill the sisters or retreat.
While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, using terms like "lack any and all Daemonic Counters" and "thus in theory can fight terminators" gives the impression that they have nothing going on whatsoever in these departments when they do have tools for these things, albeit lame/not happening all the time. As far as the pseuo-rending on the swords...when you consider that they're often hitting on 4's...2/3 of all their attacks will have AP2 as it's HIT rolls not wound rolls. Personally I like them I think they bring plenty to the table for Custodes armies. Cheap scoring units, infiltrating units with nuncio-voxes, a special character that gives scout to D3 units (if she's your warlord; just convert her though her model is pants and STUPID expensive) and a way to envourage your opponent to actually give you a game.
Against Terminators they sometimes will strike simultaneous, but with two attacks max each, that's 20 attacks on 10 sisters, which will average 10 hits, of which 6 are potentially rending, of which you'll get 2 regular wounds and 3 "rending" wounds. Conversely, Phoenix terminators will just delete the unit on arrival, and I know many EC players who do just this, and that's if you can even get these fragile Sisters to their target in the AP3 meta. As for special characters, I deliberately haven't covered them for ANY faction yet, as they can vastly change perceptions of their forces. Erasmus Golg and Terminator troops without using Rites of War for example. Don't worry, I will explain these facets more as we go forward and how the dynamic of sisters changes the more you play with the tools available to them. Remember, this is GETTING STARTED in 30k, you have to look at things on the most basic level, and basic sisters are not an easy faction to play.
Macca, thank you for these videos. They are very informative and enjoyable. And thank you for not stopping producing them, in light of what's going on with FW. Greetings from Switzerland
Macca, these videos are great! I'm not a very good 30k/40k player, in like a highly competitive sense. I play more casually and campaign stuff, like I do with AOS. However I really learn a lot from these because even in more casual/immersive gaming you need to have some balance to make the games fun. Even in scenarios where the game is uneven by design it's still very helpful to understand the strengths and weaknesses of armies. Great work, looking forward to more of these.
One place I've found sisters to really shine is in a talons of the emperor ZM list. 10 grenade launchers or flamers in a confined space is absolutely hilarious and they're dirt cheap. Take a bare bones oblivion knight, bubble wrap her in a boltgun squad, slap on a Seeker squad in your choice of trolling weapon, fill in with custodes as points allow, with a generic HQ, and either a dreadnought or terminators being the weapon of choice. Played this against a night lords player, and had a blast.
I feel like some Mechanicum would be great narrivative allies. Be as the sister don't really talk and have a very closed off culture. The mechanicum being a bunch of weirdos in their own right wouldn't give two shits about the priahia effect they would have on normie soldiers.
I think I have about a hundred sisters of silence sitting in a box (from the burning of prospero) as they are (or were) one of the armies I wanted to do when GW first brought them out. But in 40K all the units are considered an elites and there are no HQ choices so I never did anything with them. I did notice in the most recent white dwarf they introduce different colour schemes for them. So I would wonder if that means more is on the way...
Noice. I love the sisters and have found them really versatile as allies. I might be wrong but aren't the swords ap2 on a 5 or 6. That's really good! They also go at initiative.
Yes, their swords do indeed get lowered AP's, but as I stated in the comments above, do you really want to trust that chance against charging a terminator unit with a pair of lightning claws or two? Imagine bumping into Dark Talons of the Raven Guard, the slaughter!
@@TheOuterCircle yeah see your point. I reckon I would though. Most terminator squads I see spam fists . Also I usually put a sisters centura with paragon blade with my sisters sword squad. Gives it more punch.
This is why I think it was a bad idea to separate the Sisters and Custodes. Sisters of battle in 40k always came across as "poor man's Marines", which make sense in the fluff and tabletop as they arent an army but an honor guard. In a Talons army list the Sisters are cheap alternatives to the Custodes, which again makes sense as the Sisters are only meant to counter Psykers, not be actual army.
Macca one problem I have with all your videos is the sound. It is too low, I do not usually use headphones and it is too difficult to hear you sometimes. :(
It definitely is, but I am holding off as I am running shattered legions in an event on 16 Dec and want to use the experience to have a more informed outlook which I can provide in the video. I take the tactics and such rather seriously and pride myself on giving useful info, and the only way to do that is by actually getting off my fat ass and playtesting.
The Outer Circle CON SONAR CRAZY IVAN!!! What’s going’ on Jonesy? Russian Captain sometimes turn suddenly to see if someone’s following them. We call it CRAZY IVAN. So what’s the catch? The catch is... a boat this big doesnt exactly stop on a dime. If we’re too close we’ll drift right into the back of him...
The Outer Circle Have I got this straight Jonesy....A $20 million dollar computer tells you you’re chasing an earthquake, but you don’t believe it, and you come up with this. Including all the navigation ... (Nervously) Sir... I know it sounds... Relaxed Jonesy you sold me...
I should mention, Sisters do have access to a unit in the elites slot which may upgrade to power axes, and thus in theory can fight terminators... if the terminators left home without lightning claws that is. Oh, and if it's Phoenix terminators, kiss your ass goodbye!
The Sisters also lack any and all Daemonic counters, which sounds bizarre but it's true. It's like the designers were fixated on their counter-psyker to such an extent that they forgot daemons should dissolve in their presence. So, as it stands, something like a Daemon Prince just absolutely carves through them, whilst marine psykers kinda suffer. It's odd but it's true.
"All units with the Daemon special rule within 12" of any model with Psychic Anethema suffer -1 to their Toughness, or if they have an Armor value instead of Toughness, they add +1 to all rolls on the Vehicle Damage table they suffer when within this range"
EDIT: Execution Blade - Piercing Cut: "To Hit rolls of a 5 or 6 made for attacks with this weapon are resolved separately at Ap 2."
Unfortunately they don't feel like real counters to me personally. I call hard-counters a true counter in this game, anything else is a buff/debuff. Pseudo rending against terminators just isn't enough, and it's wasted against marine units like Palantine Blades who'd lack a save anyway. But the big letdown is initiative, you don't have the initiative to kill the units you'd need to before they swing and wipe out most of your sisters.
For the -1T on daemons, sure it helps sisters, but it isn't anywhere near as powerful as their effects on psykers, which is especially strange considering they are creatures of the warp, whilst psykers are physical beings. It almost has to work in such a way as daemons always take an automatic hit with a strength equal to their own toughness at the end of each turn where they are within 6" of a silent sister. You know, something that makes it imperative that they have to kill the sisters or retreat.
While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, using terms like "lack any and all Daemonic Counters" and "thus in theory can fight terminators" gives the impression that they have nothing going on whatsoever in these departments when they do have tools for these things, albeit lame/not happening all the time.
As far as the pseuo-rending on the swords...when you consider that they're often hitting on 4's...2/3 of all their attacks will have AP2 as it's HIT rolls not wound rolls.
Personally I like them I think they bring plenty to the table for Custodes armies. Cheap scoring units, infiltrating units with nuncio-voxes, a special character that gives scout to D3 units (if she's your warlord; just convert her though her model is pants and STUPID expensive) and a way to envourage your opponent to actually give you a game.
Against Terminators they sometimes will strike simultaneous, but with two attacks max each, that's 20 attacks on 10 sisters, which will average 10 hits, of which 6 are potentially rending, of which you'll get 2 regular wounds and 3 "rending" wounds. Conversely, Phoenix terminators will just delete the unit on arrival, and I know many EC players who do just this, and that's if you can even get these fragile Sisters to their target in the AP3 meta.
As for special characters, I deliberately haven't covered them for ANY faction yet, as they can vastly change perceptions of their forces. Erasmus Golg and Terminator troops without using Rites of War for example. Don't worry, I will explain these facets more as we go forward and how the dynamic of sisters changes the more you play with the tools available to them. Remember, this is GETTING STARTED in 30k, you have to look at things on the most basic level, and basic sisters are not an easy faction to play.
Macca, thank you for these videos. They are very informative and enjoyable. And thank you for not stopping producing them, in light of what's going on with FW. Greetings from Switzerland
I promised to do them and look after the fans, it wouldn't be right if I didn't.
Hey, I just wanted to thank you for your amazing responses to my questions in your AMA-style video. They were awesome.
Macca, these videos are great! I'm not a very good 30k/40k player, in like a highly competitive sense. I play more casually and campaign stuff, like I do with AOS. However I really learn a lot from these because even in more casual/immersive gaming you need to have some balance to make the games fun. Even in scenarios where the game is uneven by design it's still very helpful to understand the strengths and weaknesses of armies. Great work, looking forward to more of these.
Flight of The Eisenstein.
The main reason I started play/collecting 30K. And the fact they allied up with Death Guard, great times.
One place I've found sisters to really shine is in a talons of the emperor ZM list. 10 grenade launchers or flamers in a confined space is absolutely hilarious and they're dirt cheap. Take a bare bones oblivion knight, bubble wrap her in a boltgun squad, slap on a Seeker squad in your choice of trolling weapon, fill in with custodes as points allow, with a generic HQ, and either a dreadnought or terminators being the weapon of choice. Played this against a night lords player, and had a blast.
Oh yeah. I'm combining them and custodes for my army.
LMAO "Red October. Standing by."
Keep up the good work Macca , you stuff about 30k / tabletop is amazing. I am very exciting about your future plans. Again greetz from Germany m8 !!
I feel like some Mechanicum would be great narrivative allies. Be as the sister don't really talk and have a very closed off culture. The mechanicum being a bunch of weirdos in their own right wouldn't give two shits about the priahia effect they would have on normie soldiers.
Derrick Luderus I remember reading even the mechanicum aren't immune to their pariah genes so they still feel some discomfort in some way
Ah my favorite faction! If they had a solid army I would be playing them over custodies.
WIll you do a Chaos Demons - Getting Started when the faction is fleshed out in HH book 8?
I have a pretty solid list of sisters at 2500. It does require 9 of the transports, and 3 avengers.
I think I have about a hundred sisters of silence sitting in a box (from the burning of prospero) as they are (or were) one of the armies I wanted to do when GW first brought them out.
But in 40K all the units are considered an elites and there are no HQ choices so I never did anything with them.
I did notice in the most recent white dwarf they introduce different colour schemes for them. So I would wonder if that means more is on the way...
Noice. I love the sisters and have found them really versatile as allies. I might be wrong but aren't the swords ap2 on a 5 or 6. That's really good! They also go at initiative.
Yes, their swords do indeed get lowered AP's, but as I stated in the comments above, do you really want to trust that chance against charging a terminator unit with a pair of lightning claws or two? Imagine bumping into Dark Talons of the Raven Guard, the slaughter!
@@TheOuterCircle yeah see your point. I reckon I would though. Most terminator squads I see spam fists . Also I usually put a sisters centura with paragon blade with my sisters sword squad. Gives it more punch.
This is why I think it was a bad idea to separate the Sisters and Custodes. Sisters of battle in 40k always came across as "poor man's Marines", which make sense in the fluff and tabletop as they arent an army but an honor guard. In a Talons army list the Sisters are cheap alternatives to the Custodes, which again makes sense as the Sisters are only meant to counter Psykers, not be actual army.
Cuz you produce amazing content keep it up
Macca one problem I have with all your videos is the sound. It is too low, I do not usually use headphones and it is too difficult to hear you sometimes. :(
you mentioned a while back you was going to cover shattered legions, is this not going to happen now?
It definitely is, but I am holding off as I am running shattered legions in an event on 16 Dec and want to use the experience to have a more informed outlook which I can provide in the video. I take the tactics and such rather seriously and pride myself on giving useful info, and the only way to do that is by actually getting off my fat ass and playtesting.
@@TheOuterCircle ok buddy. Love your videos dude
Wooo!
could you do a shattered legions video pretty please.
they look so cool but have so few options 😭
I tgink custodes should have been just an ally able army cause they really just watched and baby sat Thr leigons If I recall correctly
No Necrons Getting Started? Or is that because they only have draft rules?
RED OCTOBER!! 😂 🤣😂🤣
Shtanding by.
The Outer Circle CON SONAR CRAZY IVAN!!!
What’s going’ on Jonesy?
Russian Captain sometimes turn suddenly to see if someone’s following them. We call it CRAZY IVAN.
So what’s the catch?
The catch is... a boat this big doesnt exactly stop on a dime. If we’re too close we’ll drift right into the back of him...
The Outer Circle Have I got this straight Jonesy....A $20 million dollar computer tells you you’re chasing an earthquake, but you don’t believe it, and you come up with this. Including all the navigation ...
(Nervously) Sir... I know it sounds...
Relaxed Jonesy you sold me...
One ping only.