What makes Mang0 the goat for me isn’t just his melee performances. Homies at a Cloud 9 LCS match started chanting his name. In another freaking game LOL that’s some 🐐 shit
@@mac_sour a storied single player game with an intense and unforgiving skill gradient and nearly limitless mechanical potential that survived its successor to cement itself as one of the greatest competitive games of all time. This game has not seen a patch since a few years after its release (at most), other than map changes and quality of life updates. During its lifespan, players broke through and created periods of dominance, or often times a small pantheon of players did, who basically were undefeated to everyone below them.
Favorite character trait of Armada is that he's always such a good sport in the face of defeat. Love seeing him hug even his most fierce opponents after the largest of stakes leave his grasp. Love to see it. Glad he's so highly respected by the melee community.
@@genuwhine6782 I have a vid saved on my computer of him talking about his idea for a new stalling rule. This was when HBox was #1. Armada's idea was that the person with *higher* percent would win in a timeout. I pointed out that that doesn't fix the problem and in fact creates a lot *more,* to which he responded by cussing me out, insulting me for ten minutes, and causing chat to all jump on me. Armada is *not* a good person and I do not want him back in the scene.
yeah, I keep trying to imagine Mew2King if you'd been able to go back in time and give him UnclePunch in 2002 somehow if, instead of counting frame data by making characters fall over and over, he'd just had it and been able to practice situations on his own, over and over can you even imagine what 2007 M2K could have done?
That’s how life is. Everything you have, your phone, your bed, your tv, your computer, everything was made over a bunch of time and a bunch of trial and errors. It’s hard for the younger generation to understand this, because all they know is the little life they’ve seen. This is also the reason why a lot of younger people think they always know more than older people. It’s arrogance, really.
@@3three3three3three Imagine thinking some old ass youtube video means anything at all nowadays lmao! I'm younger than the documentary and I could beat you in Melee...🤡🤡
Top 100 needs no explanation, at the end of the day the goat is immortalized in greatness for the rest of melee. Congrats mang0, through it all you worked for and earned the title you deserved, #1!
Ffs makes me feel old knowing I got into melee watching Ken vs PC Chris (where Ken techs all those down smashes), mango win pound 3 all the way to summit 11! All live (not in person just UA-cam)
Pound 3 was the only super I travelled to, and as dope as it was to be in that dorm basement lounge at 2 am watching mang0 win grands, the best part was the crew battle where Sliq missed the rest.
Armada should’ve been first. #1 in 2011-2012, first half of 2013, 2015-2016, first half of 2017 and wouldve been #1 in 2018 miom rankings if he didn’t retire before the year fully finished. Also was #2 ranked in 2009, 2013, 2017-2018. Never lost to someone outside of top 6 for 8 years. He was also mangos and hbox’s kyrptonite before he retired. Had a winning record vs everyone. Basically was top 2 for 10 years straight as well 2009-2018 Lmaoo literally goat 🐐 shit.
Only to beat Ken in 2006, m2k in 2007, Armada in 2014, Hbox in 2017, Etc etc., you can throw any other person in the top ten at him at their peaks and he still has victories over them. 2008 - 2021. Youngest and oldest ever to win a super major. EZ 🐐
There is no question that Armada is the most dominant and most intimidating player in Melee history but when it comes down to influence on the game and the fact that Mang0 is still playing and keeping our beautiful game alive is a testament to his legacy. I say give Mang0 another year at the top and he's no doubt the GOAT of melee. I hope this gives drive to Armada to return. I love this game.
100% agree about Ken in the top 10. But I think he should be the lowest of the top. Mango over Armada was inevitable, Hbox at 3 is correct, I think M2K, and Leffen have legitimate arguments over Ken. But also GOAT debates are stupid.
It was a major yeah, it’s not a super major, just like Shine 2016 (a stacked tournament in its own right). Mang0 was talking about super majors. Summit is definitely a debatable one but at least according to him it also isn’t one, ig just cause it’s a 16 person invitational.
I think Mango will always be the heart of Melee, but Armada was just objectively better. Just a way better record. Hbox is the only real point of contention as he has the best results of anyone but the shortest window of those results.
So if someone enters, wins 1 super major and then leaves he is considered the goat because of his 100% winrate? Its not as clear as you think. Mang0 was there before and after armada with a lower winrate, yes, but if mang0 retired before stuff life genisis 4 happened, would you say mang0 is the goat because he has a batter winrate than armada? Edit: grammar
@@pero13258 there's more than enough data on Armada that cements him as a better competitor. You could compare the last 10 tournaments Armada and Mango attended and see that Mango was outplaced in each one. What has Mango done in 2019-2021 to cement him over Armada? 3 major wins, 2 in 2019 and 1 in 2021. Armada had 4 major wins in a 13 month span before retiring. 2019 marked the 1st year without Armada and Mango only rose to 3rd after finishing 5th in the 2018 MPGR. Armada ended his career with top 2 placements in MPGR and MIOM rank 6 years straight(four #2 ranks and two #1 ranks). Mango's 2022 so far is underwhelming. This is why it's too early to declare Mango the greatest over Armada. It's sad that the community avoided this conversation until Mango won something after a 2 year drought.
@@coachbarn no i really see your pov man. Everything you say i agree with. But where do you draw the line? Lets assume armada is indeed the goat in melee, if he had quit 1 day earlier, would he still be? 1 week? 1 month? A year? 2 years? You see where im going with this? Where foes it start and end. Im not saying mango is the goat of melee. This is wayyyy to hard to judge upon but dont say armada is the goat because he dominated for a certain amount of time. I think when going with this logic youd have to say ken is number 1 of all time
@@pero13258 You would've had a valid point if Armada only played for 1 or 2 years but he was a top 2 player for almost a decade. That's a long enough time span for him to be considered the GOAT.
I dont think longest played should be an argument tbh. LIke mango said he would have sfat over pc chris and what not. I highly disagree. Yes its increidble sfat can be top 8ish over a decade but thats all hes really done. You cant put players who shouldnt be top 100 in because they played a million years just like you cant put someone like sfat over pc chris. longevity should hold like a 1/4th of an impact compared to what someone has done in their prime.
@@heyzeuscreestow9394 no sure shitlock. I think people are putting too much value in it. Who cares if sfat plays longer if his peaks are trash compared to someone like pc chris
Armada has never had a low like Mango has. I'm not a fan of either but I respect dominance regardless. But i also agree with Mango that if you don't think he's the GOAT now he will be in the future.
Think about this for a second,Mango has played for Decades and dethroned every single #1 player and made waves in different Era’s.He only lost his GOAT title because he stopped caring and won it back.
I hate the "he stopped caring" bs. People always john for Mango so fucking hard. Up until the point of retirement (which only happened because the game stagnated and he got bored), Armada was beating Mango the majority of the time. He never "won it back" from Armada. I'd argue Armada still has an incredibly strong case for why he's the GOAT over Mango; the only thing Mango really has over him is that he's been at the top longer due to the last 2 years.
@@Prodigial”majority” is doing a lot of legwork. It was literally a 58% winning record, which is virtually a coin flip, like you have a friend who beats you that much in something and dollars to donuts you don’t consider him that much better than you. Like easiest call of my life. And guess what, you’re probably right.
@@meitanteisan434 why do you think in basketball there is only 2 players who get serious consideration for GOAT? because it’s not so subjective. It’s like 90-95% objective. We’re not ranking songs or artworks. Saying he won the most ‘iconic’ events is silly to me.
@@oui_chapeau Which tournaments are iconic and which ones aren't is also subjective so it doesn't make sense to use that as an objective metric to decide who the GOAT is lmao. Okay let's just say that the iconic tournaments are Genesis, EVO, The Big House, and Summit. Yeah Mang0 won all 4 of them throughout his career but so as Armada and Hbox so it doesn't really prove anything to say that Mang0 is the GOAT over Armada and Hbox for that reason. Hell Armada has 3 Genesis titles while Mang0 only has one and Armada has 4 summit titles while again, Mang0 only has one. Mang0 only excels in winning big house but that's pretty much it. I swear Mang0 fanboys would saying anything to push the narrative that their idol is the undisputed GOAT when stats say otherwise.
armada’s the most dominant player to ever play and showed excellency nearly his entire run. Mango is literally geting it for longevity achievements. His peak is no where near armadas. So far at least.
![We Hosted The Best Genesis 8 Watch Party. [1/2]](/img/n.gif)
"Mango continues to stick around"
Mango: I got nothing better to do 😂😂😂
🤡🤡
"If armada comes out of retirement I'm retiring" LMAOOOOOO
M2K painting Zain as the Camp Master was probably the comedic highlight of 2021 for me
lol that’s my melee partner
nah that was just fax
He not lying lol
Zain is like Hbox, highly skilled but boring to watch and too campy imo. M2K is right.
@@stayontrack M2K was the biggest camper ever lmfao, Zain haters and M2K fanboys coping hard lmao
What makes Mang0 the goat for me isn’t just his melee performances. Homies at a Cloud 9 LCS match started chanting his name. In another freaking game LOL that’s some 🐐 shit
Fax. Armada may have the numbers in his time, but no one got mangs legacy
what match? could you link it?
I don't know what you're talking about could you link when it happens?
winning super majors in 3 different decades is so fucking wild- to put it in perspective, even starcraft’s flash can’t say the same
With three different characters
@@mcdonaldolds and a falcon with HEART
starcraft is a young mans game
you can't really compare starcraft to melee though, two totally different games. and two totally different players. not a fair comparison.
@@mac_sour a storied single player game with an intense and unforgiving skill gradient and nearly limitless mechanical potential that survived its successor to cement itself as one of the greatest competitive games of all time. This game has not seen a patch since a few years after its release (at most), other than map changes and quality of life updates. During its lifespan, players broke through and created periods of dominance, or often times a small pantheon of players did, who basically were undefeated to everyone below them.
Favorite character trait of Armada is that he's always such a good sport in the face of defeat. Love seeing him hug even his most fierce opponents after the largest of stakes leave his grasp. Love to see it. Glad he's so highly respected by the melee community.
And yet he picks out random people in chat to bully. I don't have respect for him, after experiencing that.
Armada is such a sore loser, which made him the hardest player to beat don't get me wrong. He's a "rager" but never lost so it didn't show
That's exactly what he wants you to think. Hearing Mango and Leffen talk about Armada he is actually very egotistical and cocky.
@@PalPlays ??
@@genuwhine6782 I have a vid saved on my computer of him talking about his idea for a new stalling rule. This was when HBox was #1. Armada's idea was that the person with *higher* percent would win in a timeout. I pointed out that that doesn't fix the problem and in fact creates a lot *more,* to which he responded by cussing me out, insulting me for ten minutes, and causing chat to all jump on me. Armada is *not* a good person and I do not want him back in the scene.
Thing about those old school smashers is that they invented so much tech, from nothing. We are standing on the shoulders of giants.
yeah, I keep trying to imagine Mew2King if you'd been able to go back in time and give him UnclePunch in 2002 somehow
if, instead of counting frame data by making characters fall over and over, he'd just had it and been able to practice situations on his own, over and over
can you even imagine what 2007 M2K could have done?
Meh
Shit is actually insane when you really think about it. Like I would have never discovered even the most basic shit like wavedashing and DI on my own.
That’s how life is. Everything you have, your phone, your bed, your tv, your computer, everything was made over a bunch of time and a bunch of trial and errors.
It’s hard for the younger generation to understand this, because all they know is the little life they’ve seen. This is also the reason why a lot of younger people think they always know more than older people. It’s arrogance, really.
In other words, respect your elders.
huge fan of armada. huge fan of mango. the first smash event i really remember getting into it was mango v hungrybox and mango was just going crzy
Truer words have never been spoken
🤡
@@jsmithers. that's a very clear mirror you have there
@@MonaryMenos U = 🤡💩
@@jsmithers. nice delete comment LEL
@@MonaryMenos Cry 🤡
Honestly dawg you can't think of Melee and not think of Mang0. This man is THE rep of Melee.
I think of m2k first honestly.
the documentaries did a good job of making sure he isn't, but the players know what's real
@@3three3three3three The documentary is old as fuck dude...
@@jsmithers. get outta here john smith
@@3three3three3three Imagine thinking some old ass youtube video means anything at all nowadays lmao! I'm younger than the documentary and I could beat you in Melee...🤡🤡
You have to put Ken in top5, 15 years ago me at age 10 explaining to my parents who Ken is on survivor justifies it.
Top 5 yeah but M2K deserves 4 over Ken
23:53 Imagine if Mango wasnt in the list at all 😂😂😂
Top 100 needs no explanation, at the end of the day the goat is immortalized in greatness for the rest of melee. Congrats mang0, through it all you worked for and earned the title you deserved, #1!
"Fun PC Chris story: I went to his house, we drank some 4Lokos..."
"SHEEEEEEEESH."
Lmfao the calling his shot at summit. Id be feeling the same way right now
The man the myth the mango
the actual top 5 is
5 - armada
4 - mang0
3 - ken if he was a skilled roy
2 - hax if his hands were indestructible
1 - isai if he tried
now this should, undoubtedly, be the mang0
Armadas ghost still haunts Mango fans.
Mang0 going go be the Tom Brady of Melee winning majors in his 40s
Youngest and oldest player to ever win a supermajor
🐐
Ffs makes me feel old knowing I got into melee watching Ken vs PC Chris (where Ken techs all those down smashes), mango win pound 3 all the way to summit 11! All live (not in person just UA-cam)
Pound 3 was the only super I travelled to, and as dope as it was to be in that dorm basement lounge at 2 am watching mang0 win grands, the best part was the crew battle where Sliq missed the rest.
Armada should’ve been first. #1 in 2011-2012, first half of 2013, 2015-2016, first half of 2017 and wouldve been #1 in 2018 miom rankings if he didn’t retire before the year fully finished. Also was #2 ranked in 2009, 2013, 2017-2018. Never lost to someone outside of top 6 for 8 years. He was also mangos and hbox’s kyrptonite before he retired. Had a winning record vs everyone. Basically was top 2 for 10 years straight as well 2009-2018 Lmaoo literally goat 🐐 shit.
Agree lul. I love my boy Mangoat but Armada was so consistent for like a decade. I remember It was insane when Swedish Delight beat him
Mango the face of the game. Armada is the best but not the greatest.
Love that picture of the player at the summit reaching out to the shine. like damn it gives me shivers
Summit is a super major, bro.
Since when? It had top tier players but only 16 so it’s a major
@@voodooedits785 yea liquidpadia doesn’t count invintinals as super majors
M2K being aggressive??? Lol. Have you seen one of his recent sets stalling out Kuya's Link?
Kuya, not aklo.
@@rubadub15 Yep, you're right. Thanks for the correction.
m2k SHOULD be pissed about not being 4th tbh. that ranking is so dumb
Nah, Ken clears him.
25:38 that SHEESH right on time looooool
mang0 is like Goku, happy/fun dude, has a good time, trains his ass off, and fucks up all the nerds who think they're better than him
« Train his ass off »
Lol no.
@@emmanuelmondesir1314 lol yes, he's always playing melee on stream, even with Zain or another top player, so he's always grinding.
"DAAMN GET HIM KEN!" 😂
but just think if Isai actually tried tho
New folk don’t even know Ken was on survivor smh
25:06 The ultimate mangoPog moment
Mango is easily the Melee GOAT. He simultaneously has the best career and is the best player to ever play. He’s the Jordan of Melee
Only to beat Ken in 2006, m2k in 2007, Armada in 2014, Hbox in 2017, Etc etc., you can throw any other person in the top ten at him at their peaks and he still has victories over them. 2008 - 2021. Youngest and oldest ever to win a super major. EZ 🐐
I think Jordan is the Goat but he's definetly not the best to ever play. Not his fault, just 2 more centuries of basketball
@@Matthew.Morcos jordan is mew2king lmao
@@xavmarz755 If we're talking across all smash games, m2k is definitely jordan
Bro he’s Jordan AND Lebron
I love Armada equally as much as I love Mango, but Mango is definitely the protag
There is no question that Armada is the most dominant and most intimidating player in Melee history but when it comes down to influence on the game and the fact that Mang0 is still playing and keeping our beautiful game alive is a testament to his legacy. I say give Mang0 another year at the top and he's no doubt the GOAT of melee. I hope this gives drive to Armada to return. I love this game.
You say that and you still don’t put him at number 1 that makes 0 sense to me
@@captainfalconmain6576 Say what? Which one are you referring to? lol
I hope PP comes back.
whos here after he won summit summit
100% agree about Ken in the top 10. But I think he should be the lowest of the top. Mango over Armada was inevitable, Hbox at 3 is correct, I think M2K, and Leffen have legitimate arguments over Ken. But also GOAT debates are stupid.
Ken was just so dominant that you have to respect his record
Holy shit the pizza WAS on purpose. Insane. Thank you for this knowledge.
They chose the absolute worst clips for every player.
"Look at the King of Smash...dying."
All funny comments abside, but congratulations Mang0. You're the master of melee you know that? Keep pushing beyond the limit my man.
Did Canada Cup in 2016 and 2017 count as majors? I know it was listed as majors on liqupedia and it was added to both M2K and Armada’s list of Majors
It was a major yeah, it’s not a super major, just like Shine 2016 (a stacked tournament in its own right). Mang0 was talking about super majors. Summit is definitely a debatable one but at least according to him it also isn’t one, ig just cause it’s a 16 person invitational.
I thought everyone already knew this
Chudat top 10 for writing the chronicles alone
I fucking love Mang0
I would like to see Armada v Mango as a bday present. My bday is the day after Christmas
Yo what happened to Absent Page?
Axe is such a legend
I think Mango will always be the heart of Melee, but Armada was just objectively better. Just a way better record.
Hbox is the only real point of contention as he has the best results of anyone but the shortest window of those results.
So if someone enters, wins 1 super major and then leaves he is considered the goat because of his 100% winrate? Its not as clear as you think. Mang0 was there before and after armada with a lower winrate, yes, but if mang0 retired before stuff life genisis 4 happened, would you say mang0 is the goat because he has a batter winrate than armada?
Edit: grammar
@@pero13258 there's more than enough data on Armada that cements him as a better competitor. You could compare the last 10 tournaments Armada and Mango attended and see that Mango was outplaced in each one. What has Mango done in 2019-2021 to cement him over Armada? 3 major wins, 2 in 2019 and 1 in 2021. Armada had 4 major wins in a 13 month span before retiring. 2019 marked the 1st year without Armada and Mango only rose to 3rd after finishing 5th in the 2018 MPGR. Armada ended his career with top 2 placements in MPGR and MIOM rank 6 years straight(four #2 ranks and two #1 ranks). Mango's 2022 so far is underwhelming. This is why it's too early to declare Mango the greatest over Armada. It's sad that the community avoided this conversation until Mango won something after a 2 year drought.
@@coachbarn no i really see your pov man. Everything you say i agree with. But where do you draw the line? Lets assume armada is indeed the goat in melee, if he had quit 1 day earlier, would he still be? 1 week? 1 month? A year? 2 years? You see where im going with this? Where foes it start and end. Im not saying mango is the goat of melee. This is wayyyy to hard to judge upon but dont say armada is the goat because he dominated for a certain amount of time. I think when going with this logic youd have to say ken is number 1 of all time
@@pero13258 Armada was dominating at a time Mango was playing though. Ken wasn’t.
@@pero13258 You would've had a valid point if Armada only played for 1 or 2 years but he was a top 2 player for almost a decade. That's a long enough time span for him to be considered the GOAT.
Mango yells at chat to stfu and complains about spoilers, but also Mango spoils #1 in video title, lmaoo
You can call me a little b**** but Im tearing right now THE AMERICAN HERO!!!!! THE DWAYNE JOHNSON OF MELEE!!!
23:50 we love to see it.
so insanely deserved
MANG0 IS THE GOAT. NO DISPUTE
21:00 when are we getting a remake of "The League" with more EE/mango shenanigans
THAT IS RIGHT
My goat
MANGO MANGO MANGO!
OooOooOOOOOOoooOh
ofcourse
the Kid the mango the Goat.!
This dude needs a barber
Ppmd is the Calvin Johnson of melee
Facts
Mang GOAT
I dont think longest played should be an argument tbh. LIke mango said he would have sfat over pc chris and what not. I highly disagree. Yes its increidble sfat can be top 8ish over a decade but thats all hes really done. You cant put players who shouldnt be top 100 in because they played a million years just like you cant put someone like sfat over pc chris. longevity should hold like a 1/4th of an impact compared to what someone has done in their prime.
It's not only longevity that is being accounted when it is brought up lol
@@heyzeuscreestow9394 no sure shitlock. I think people are putting too much value in it. Who cares if sfat plays longer if his peaks are trash compared to someone like pc chris
Armada has never had a low like Mango has. I'm not a fan of either but I respect dominance regardless. But i also agree with Mango that if you don't think he's the GOAT now he will be in the future.
@Ad-000 I think him staying top 3 or 5 is good enough.
REAL GOATS won't say that.
M2K is absolutely the best shiek to ever do it idc what anyone says old school M2K shiek Marth was untouchable
Mangos good no doubt but armada was so dominant and only lost to a handful of players. His peak was higher than mangos but mango has longevity.
Think about this for a second,Mango has played for Decades and dethroned every single #1 player and made waves in different Era’s.He only lost his GOAT title because he stopped caring and won it back.
I hate the "he stopped caring" bs. People always john for Mango so fucking hard. Up until the point of retirement (which only happened because the game stagnated and he got bored), Armada was beating Mango the majority of the time. He never "won it back" from Armada. I'd argue Armada still has an incredibly strong case for why he's the GOAT over Mango; the only thing Mango really has over him is that he's been at the top longer due to the last 2 years.
@@Prodigial That's what I've been saying the whole time but Mang0 fanboys hate hearing the truth.
It was a good point until you say he only lost cuz he stopped caring lol, no johns regardless.
@@Prodigial”majority” is doing a lot of legwork. It was literally a 58% winning record, which is virtually a coin flip, like you have a friend who beats you that much in something and dollars to donuts you don’t consider him that much better than you. Like easiest call of my life. And guess what, you’re probably right.
Like-Mike, Like-Mang0
Mang0 melee's Kobe
THATS MY GOAT THATS T H E G.O.A.T 🐐 🔥
GOATED
I find it so weird that they’d place legacy players so high but they’d never seed them over Plup, Zain, Axe, or most of the top 50
Hugs was way too low. He should be 20
Mang0's the GOAT of Melee, that's why he's #1
zain has to be top 4 all time undisputed now
THE GOAT
mang0 won the most iconic tournaments that why is 1# GOAT
such an objective way to look at it 🤔
So as Armada and Hbox so what is your point?
@@meitanteisan434 why do you think in basketball there is only 2 players who get serious consideration for GOAT? because it’s not so subjective. It’s like 90-95% objective. We’re not ranking songs or artworks. Saying he won the most ‘iconic’ events is silly to me.
@@oui_chapeau Which tournaments are iconic and which ones aren't is also subjective so it doesn't make sense to use that as an objective metric to decide who the GOAT is lmao.
Okay let's just say that the iconic tournaments are Genesis, EVO, The Big House, and Summit. Yeah Mang0 won all 4 of them throughout his career but so as Armada and Hbox so it doesn't really prove anything to say that Mang0 is the GOAT over Armada and Hbox for that reason. Hell Armada has 3 Genesis titles while Mang0 only has one and Armada has 4 summit titles while again, Mang0 only has one. Mang0 only excels in winning big house but that's pretty much it. I swear Mang0 fanboys would saying anything to push the narrative that their idol is the undisputed GOAT when stats say otherwise.
@@meitanteisan434 exactly right
why are moonmoon and mango the same person?
MANGO THE GOAT!
MY GOAT
#2 been real quiet since this dropped 👀
19 hours my guy
thats my goat
Mang0 is the Goat
Obviously
could someone make a website were we can just vote for who we think the goat is
You've always been...
let's go mango
People who think Mang0 isn't Top #1 are crazy. The dude climbs loser brackets as much as the dude climbs your Mom. He's a straight up Clutch Buster.
I love how mad Armada fans are :DDDDDD
I started my 0-2 run 2015👀
I got nothin better to do
title is a fact
THE FUCKING GOAT
mango nation
YEEEAAAAAAYUZZZZZZ
07 m2k should be 2 and prime blur #1
And then tHe kInG oF sMaSh Ken number 3
armada’s the most dominant player to ever play and showed excellency nearly his entire run. Mango is literally geting it for longevity achievements. His peak is no where near armadas. So far at least.