A Sub Panel Installation With A Permit And It Passed Inspection
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- Опубліковано 26 гру 2018
- The installation of a 125 amp sub panel with a permit, load calculations, panel schedules and the inspector's sign-off. This video is start to finish and the first half addresses all of the paperwork needed for the permit. Without the proper paperwork, you can't get the permit.
If you would like the spreadsheets for your own project, ask for them in the comments and I will give you the links. - Навчання та стиль
Incredibly helpful for planning a sub panel in jurisdictions where homeowners are allowed to pull their own permits. I re-created the spreadsheet and it's like a mic drop when the planning department sees it expecting you are an overly confident homeowner that hasn't done their homework
Thank you John. My intent was to aid people through the whole process, not just the physical installation. You can spend hours in the NEC 2017 handbook, get nowhere and end up very confused. Even the experts debate deciphering the code. Glad I could help you out!
for them is all about the money nothing else matter, I mean why do they want a detailed plan, are they going to be liable for anything if anything should go wrong? no. it's about$$ for their pockets.
Not only that, the price of the electrical permit was $230
Steve is great! He even took into account that if his 90 was over 24" long he would have to derate his feeder wires. He may not have had to. If you have more than 3 current carrying conductors in a pipe, regardless of length, you don't have to derate your conductors. Nobody remembers that.
Im wrong. If you have less than 4 current carrying conductors you don't have to derate regardless of nipple or conduit length. Sorry to mislead. Old timers disease coming on...
@@johndavies2949 I am going to stick with "Steve is great" 🤣🤣🤣 Thanks for watching John!
Great video. I'm an electrician by trade and I am so happy to see people safely tackling wiring projects and doing it the way an electrician would do it. One very small technical thing I saw was the steel offset in the wall going into the main service panel should probably have a bond bushing on it. The metal lock ring will theoretically bond the offset to the grounding system but for total assurance a bond bushing will make sure of it. Not totally necessary but just thought I would throw it out there and don't feel pressured to have to change it you got a green tag on your inspection but now you have one more tid bit of information that you can use next time and maybe pass onto another person.
Thank you for the kind words Jon. You can never be too safe, electricity kills people and starts fires. NEC 2017 is not an easy read and I spent many hours in that book to ensure I got it right so my installation would pass on the first inspection. I am sure the building department cringes whenever they see the owner/builder affidavit for electrical work. Thank you very much for the tip, I will definitely pass on the bond bushing suggestion to others. Thanks for watching.
Yeah. Kinda knit picking but he'll be ok. It's not like it's a service .
I have literally watched thousands of technical YT vids over the years, and this is one of the very best I have ever seen. Awesome job!
Thank you Dan. I watched hours of videos myself and I could not find what I was looking for, so I made this video to include what I thought all of the videos I watched were lacking. Thanks for watching.
Wow, that was a lot to digest for an electrical novice like myself....I know just enough to get by and know when to call in a pro, which is exactly what I did for a subpanel. At the very least you validated the work we had done, which I was positive was done very well. Thanks for filming this, it gives me some ideas that had not crossed my mind b4.
You're welcome Felix. What prompted this video was the fact that there are hundreds of sub panel videos on UA-cam, but very few of them show that they installed the panel with a permit and the panel actually passed an inspection. Enjoy your new electric!
Great video. I am an Electrician by trade. I am a commercial industrial and came on here to get some ideas for my house clean work instalation. This has to be the best video I have seen . And great detail on referencing the NEC code book. Keep up the great work.
Thank you Tone. It took me a couple of months to read code book and figure out how I was going to do this, once I figured it out, I decided to share it to help others. Thanks for watching!
Helpful video. I'm in planning stage and would appreciate the spreadsheets. Thanks
Here are the links. Let me know if you get them because they are on a Google drive and I hope you have access.
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=drive_link
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=drive_link
The best sub-panel install video I've ever seen. Very helpful in every aspect, no kidding. The best!
Thank you Jim and Diana. I watched hours of sub panel videos before making my own. I wanted to make sure I covered what I thought all the videos I watched were lacking. The permit process was a big one and it took the most research. I spent months in the NEC code book. Hope I gave you some useful information. Thanks for watching.
I have been looking for days on a good clean way to come out of a flush mount to a sub panel!!! OUTSTANDING sir,,,,,,Saved my ass
Thank you T Ray, enjoy your new electric!
Hey Steve: Stumbled across this video while researching a possible sub panel install at my place. Great info; very clear; with great tips! I'm an old IT guy, so the load calculation spreadsheet info made complete sense to me, and served as a kind of shortcut that helped me learn about load calculations! I had picked up the new NEC 2020, but I'm not at all sure that I would have gotten to the info I needed without your help! Hope to see more new videos from you soon! And can I just say that it's great to see a UA-cam video WITHOUT all of the over-the-top, "Crazy Eddie" hand gestures!
'Crazy Eddie', haha! Thanks Leon. I remember that guy, he sold by volume because his commercials were louder than anyone else's 😆 I hope all of your research turns into a new sub panel to satisfy all of your electrical needs. Thanks for watching!
Hey Steve: Followup questions. I hope these haven’t been asked/answered already!
It LOOKS like, with everything mounted on the wall…2 questions - A) Is the sweep 90* Schedule 40 PVC? and 2) the offset that connects to the side of the PVC junction box looks to also be PVC? (the others, into both of the load centers - main & sub - look to be metallic)
Hey Leon, the 90 degree elbow at the Main panel is Schedule 80 PVC and everyone is busting my balls about it not being per code because they say it is a plumbing fitting. Plumbing fittings are pressure rated, electrical fittings are not pressure rated. Schedule 80 PVC is gray and electrical PVC is gray. It makes it seem as though you can use Schedule 80 PVC plumbing fittings for electrical but you can't use Schedule 80 PVC electrical for plumbing. At least my 'so called illegal' 90 degree elbow makes my conduit continuous inside the wall. You are correct about the metal offsets at the panels and the PVC offset at the wall mounted junction box. Wherever you decide to use metal, it must be bonded to ground, that's why I went with metal at the enclosures because the metal lock ring bonds the offset nipples to the enclosures. I have been told my Inspector sucks and I got lucky.
@@StevesStrayStuff Thanks a ton for the reply info Steve! I actually was wondering about the bigger, external, PVC sweep 90* mounted on the drywall with the straps on 2x4’s? Also Schedule 80? Or Schedule 40?
Sorry, I shoulda been clearer.
@@leoncargile4204 Haha, now that I have re-read your comment, I misinterpreted your question because of the previous 90 degree fitting ball busting I have encountered. Yes, that 90 degree radius curve is Schedule 80 PVC. Not sure what Schedule the plastic offset is, it isn't as thick walled as the 90 degree radius. The big gray fitting on the metal offset nipple at the sub panel is also a Schedule 80 plumbing union, which was 100% visible to my inspector during the inspection and he didn't say anything about that plumbing fitting being illegal.
STEVE !! You are the MAN !! I am Solar Contractor having a problems every time doing or request for permits for MPU or Subpanels
Every jury diction had addiction to Money ? They just give you hard time ,every time those arse…holes ..
But your explanation it’s the BEST here on UA-cam ? I am not too savvy on spreadsheet s but you gave me an idea how to proceed next Time ?
And your explanation how to wire the subpanel and how to do the set up WOW my MAN ? YOU ARE THE BEST MY BROTHER ❤️👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you so much for your knowledge GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER I AM subscribed to your channel and giving thumbs up on all you videos
Have a blessed year brother 🙏🕊❤️👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽🙏🕊🙏🕊❤️❤️
Thank you for the feedback Gaspar. Getting the permit was the hardest part of the job. Glad I could help you out and thank you for subscribing!
Really fantastic. Hopefully this should get me through the permit and inspection process. I'm essentially doing the same thing you did, except my subpanel is going on the other side of the house so I'll be running quite a bit of copper. Thanks a bunch
Good luck with your installation Mike. The building department can be tough on DIYer.
One of the best videos I've seen on this topic.
Thank you Josiah. It took a lot of time to decipher NEC 2017 and I just wanted to pass on the information to help out others.
Excellent Steve! Well and very clear illustrations and explanations.
Thank you, I tried to present as much information as I could to assist others with the entire process. I spent several hours deciphering the NEC 2017 handbook and wanted to pass it on.
Thanks Steve!! That was the most detailed, well explained sub panel installation video I have found yet!!
You're welcome Chris, I hope it helped you out!
Wonderful video, clearly done by someone who did their homework.
Thank you Chris! It took me a couple of months of reading through the NEC 2017 Handbook to make sure my installation would meet the current code. I want this video give people a thorough outline of the entire process so their installation goes smoothly. Thanks for watching!
You sure did your homework, and knowledge wise is the best panel video I've seen on here. Extra points for flipping the guts for bottom feed.
For other people planning to add a sub panel, you use SER for a sub. If you can find some stabiloy cable, you can avoid a lot of the material he used.
Thank you Ryan, I wanted my video to encompass the entire process, from the time I filed for a permit, all the way through to the inspector's sign-off. Thank you for the kind words and thanks for watching.
Thanks, Steve! I'm about to attempt this down in Coral Springs. I have a feeling the permitting might be the most challenging part!
Hi Greg. If you would like me send you the load calculation sheet templates, I would be more than happy to give them to you, just give me an email address. Others have successfully used them for their permit. Thanks for watching and good luck with your project!
@@StevesStrayStuff That would be great! soyspam at gmail dot com
I sent them to you, enjoy!
Glad to see a job done right on youtube... great job Steve!
Thank you very much for the compliment, I am proud of the end results. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the excellent job in creating this video, and for the clear explanations along the way.
You're welcome Alex, I hope something help you out. Thanks for watching!
Without question, this is the best DIY video of a sub panel install that I've seen. For the regular laymen, it's perfect.
Not sure if you'll be able to provide some insight on this, but I'm wondering if you can give me an idea how the load calculation would work if you are installing 3 phase power in a shop with a phase converter. My home has a 200amp load center in the basement which is on the opposite end of the house as the garage. I'd like to run a sub panel across the house, and install it in the garage. From there, I'd like to have a rotary phase converter installed (probably a 20 hp version) to run my 3 phase motors that power my woodworking tools. The 3 phase motors are a 5hp jointer, 5 hp bandsaw, 7.5 hp planer, and 7.5 hp table saw. I'd like to have a separate circuit for lighting so that the lights don't dim, and a few 220/240 outlets for the future. How do you calculate your load when you have a rotary phase converter being added? The converter serves as a generator for the the 3 phase machines.
Thank you for the compliment Joshua. I am pasting a link for figuring out single phase converter power requirements:
www.northamericaphaseconverters.com/calculating-single-phase-converter-power-requirements-for-driving-three-phase-motors/
However, you need to also look at NEC 2017 Article 430 Motors, Motor Circuits, and Controllers: It mentions kilovolt-ampere (kVA) per Horsepower with Locked Rotor, so there is a maximum 'locked rotor current' value you have to factor into your load calculations obtained from a motor Letter Code on the motor, Table 430.7(B) Locked-Rotor Indicating Code Letters. The motor code letters run from A to V (there is no letter I, O or Q).
The NEC 2017 Handbook cost me $200 at Barnes & Noble. The book has 1300 pages, everything you need to know is in it, it is just a nightmare to decipher and will give you a headache. I wish I could do more for you, but I hope this helps you out some. Thanks for watching.
@@StevesStrayStuff Many thanks Steve. North American Phase converters is my top choice, and Keith Rucker over at vintage machinery has a 10% off promo code with them. As for the NEC handbook, I'll probably have to pick one up. Appreciate the feedback.
Enjoy your new shop once you get it up and running!
Do you already own all that? If not, just buy 240 single phase equipment. Those motors arent big enough to warrant 3 phase
@@Ryan-hr9hw 36" Oliver 416D bandsaw, 16" Oliver 166 jointer, 24" Oliver 299D planer, and 8' Martin T75 sliding table saw. All of these are 3 phase, all were purchased at auction, and the total cost for all of them is was $2650.00 You'll never be able to buy single phase machines at the same quality for the same price. So yes, it's easy to justify the additional cost of a phase converter considering the money saved.
Thanks Steve. I needed the planning portion, great video.
You're welcome Scuba, glad to have helped you out. Having a plan to execute is a critical step. Thanks for watching!
Great video, thanks for sharing. This was very helpful.
It is my pleasure to share. Hope it helps you out and be safe with you new electric! Thanks for watching.
What an excellent video. Neat work. Great explanations as to "why". Easily understood. I am subscribed!
Thank you for commenting about the 'why'. The goal of my video was to help explain areas that left people asking themselves "Why?" Thanks for watching and subscribing!
Great and thorough work 👌🏽
Thank you Michael, I am very proud of the end results. Thanks for watching.
awesome video brotha, for not being an electrician you sure as heck know a lot... good job just what i was looking for !!!
Thanks for watching, I hope it helps you out!
I need this for my new home theater in garage. woohoo thanks for video
You're welcome! I added this power for my home audio equipment. I was tired of the family room and bathroom lights blinking with the bass. Also, I would occasionally trip the breaker at high listening levels. All of my problems are now solved!
Amazing electrons I love watching videos👍👍👍👍🎤🎤❤️👍👍❤️👍👍👍
Hi Phuoc! Electrons are amazing when they all make it to where they are supposed to go, but when they don't do their job, it is very frustrating and painful! Thanks for watching!
nice video. thanks
You are welcome Rick, I have been enjoying the end results!
Wow. They require a lot more consideration in your jurisdiction than they do here. I just needed to tell them what I was planning on doing (very rough -- how many branch circuits, feeder circuit, etc..) and that's it. Only had the ground inspection done for my trench work, but they inspectors are pretty laid back. I wonder how much the requirements vary by city and region in the US
Hi Yona. Honestly, I think when they saw Owner/Builder on my permit application, they threw the book at me to see if I could pass the test. I really can't blame them. That is what prompted me to make this video, it covers all of the bases for obtaining a permit and passing the inspection on the first visit. Thanks for watching.
good job!
Thank you!
Good job I enjoyed it 😎👍
Hi Kevin, Thank you very much and thanks for watching.
Incredible job Thanks
My pleasure, I enjoy my new electric everyday.
Thanks for this very informative video
Your welcome Paul. I hope something in the video helps you out. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the video. Want to add a sub panel for a detached garage. Still gathering all the required information. Will try to upload the video.
You're welcome. Since you are working with a detached building, make sure you pay close attention to NEC 2017 Articles 225, 230 and 250. Thanks for watching!
Great video! As an electrical engineer with no electrician's license, I appreciate your detail on the finer elements. Please provide the spreadsheet links.
Here you go mark. Please let me know if you get them. I am not an IT guy, so it is nice to know if the sharing plan worked. Good luck with your project! Thanks for watching.
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=sharing
Thanks for this, it’s got a lot of overlap with something I’m trying to do. My only concern in using some of your strategy is the 90 degree elbow. I don’t believe they make that piece in electrical conduit. Even though you used schedule 80 gray conduit I think that’s plumbing conduit. I’m worried about being called out for this in inspection. But if I go with electrical conduit I’ll have to use a wide sweep 90, which won’t really work. And I really want to avoid flex conduit, that could cause even more trouble. Maybe I’ll just risk it with the short 90.
Many people have pointed out that the elbow I used is a plumbing elbow, not an electrical elbow. Article 352 say to use Schedule 80 PVC. I looked very hard to see if that elbow was illegal and could not find it written in the NEC book that said it was illegal. That one elbow keeps the conduit continuous, which is required per the code. Good luck with your project.
I would like a copy of the spreadsheet. Thank you
Here you go Jerry, good luck with your project. Please let me know that you got the files, I am not an IT guy!
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=drivesdk
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=drivesdk
You're my hero
Thank you! It took a lot of planning and research to make sure everything was installed per the National Electrical Code.
back to the future nice job
Thank you very much!
Thanks for detailed explanations. I realized this is an older video 2018? But I could use the spreadsheets if you still have them available. Thanks again!
You're welcome Rob. I previously updated the sheets to NEC 2020 and I pasted the links below. Good luck with your project.
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=drivesdk
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=drivesdk
In depth info. Thank you, and great video.
Thank you Blake and you're welcome, I hope I helped you out.
And why do u remove the green screw if you are still installing grounding wires to them
Hi Ryan. Even thought the neutrals and grounds are isolated from each other in the sub panel, you still have a large ground wire connected to the sub panel enclosure through the ground bar and a large neutral wire connected to the sub panel neutral bus ( which is isolated from the grounds because the green screw is removed ). This ensures each bus is connected to the main panel and ensures there is no current flow in the sub panel ground wire. That is covered in the video, 13:20 - 14:48. Thanks for watching.
Great video. I was wondering if you could tell me how you determined your wire gauge. I am trying to run a 125 amp sub off my main and the table I found NEC Table 310.15 (B)(7), says that for 125 amp rating #2 AWG copper is needed for the loads, and #4 AWG copper for the ground. You've done a lot more homework than me, so if you could offer some clarification I would really appreciate it.
That is a great question Michael. Truthfully, I did not do any calculating for the ground wire size. Here is how my choice happened:
I was debating whether to use Service Entrance Cable (SER) or THWN-2 to feed my sub panel. My sub panel is protected by a 100-amp breaker which would have required a SER cable to be 3-3-3-5, with the 5 gage being the ground. After I thought about it, I figured the SER cable would be very difficult to work with, so I opted to purchase four individual THWN-2 wires.
When I went to purchase all the individual THWN-2, the THWN-2 did not come in 5 gage, it was only available in 4 or 6 gage. I figured that if 3-3-3-5 is what comes bundled in the SER cable, then the 3-3-3-4 was more than sufficient for the THWN-2 wiring.
I know this probably isn’t the answer you were looking for, but that is how I ended up with the 4 gage ground. A SER cable with 2 gage contains 2-2-2-4.
Good luck with your installation and thanks for watching.
i’m considering doing this myself as well...estimator came out and wants $1000...thanks for the video
You're welcome! I got the load center new in the box off of ebay for about $100, the 100 amp breaker new in the box off of ebay for $50, the wire is from Wire & Cable Your Way for $1 per foot. The junction box, 90 degree radius elbow, metallic offsets and plywood are from Home Depot and the other 2" PVC fittings I used are from PVC Fittings Online. I spent about $300 for the materials. Take your time, plan it well and it will work out just fine.
Thats a good price for a PROFESSIONAL INSTALLATION.
I also agree that is a good price, however, if more professionals performed a PROFESSIONAL INSTALLATION, there would be less people looking for the DIY solution. My neighbor had his PROFESSIONAL INSTALLATION fail the inspection process twice before it was finally approved. Unfortunately, hiring someone with a license does not guarantee a professional outcome. People get tired of paying for a lesser job than they could achieve by doing it themselves.
@@StevesStrayStuff hi there! what kind of elbow did you use to transition from the bottom of the panel into that box you mounted on the wall? you can see it more clear at 16:48 mark as it’s poking out of the drywall with the wires coming out of it
@@pharaohacura3618 I got the fitting from www.pvcfittingsonline.com/ People have really busted my balls for that one fitting claiming it is for plumbing use only and it is not per code. NEC says Schedule 80 PVC is acceptable and all the Schedule 80 PVC is gray in color, so I used it because I could not find anything that says I couldn't, other than people telling me I can't. I have seen way more videos with a lot more not to code than my one 90 degree elbow.
2" elbow www.pvcfittingsonline.com/808-020-2-schedule-80-pvc-ell-fipt-x-fipt.html
2" nipple www.pvcfittingsonline.com/861-251-2-schedule-80-pvc-nipple.html
2" offset www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-2-in-Rigid-Offset-Conduit-Nipple-04020/100141375
I am thinking about installing a sub panel close to my main panel as you did in your video, is there a 30" inch distance requirement between panels I thought I saw that somewhere ?
Hi T. Dee. You are correct about there being a 30" requirement but it has to do with the 'Width of Working Space' which cannot be less than 30" wide. Take a look at NEC 2017 Article 110.26(A)(2). My panel installation is shown in EXHIBIT 110.15, Thanks for watching.
Hey Steve, thanks for this... This s very helpful. Do you still have a link to the spreadsheets handy?
You're welcome and I sure do! Please let me know if you get them. I am not an IT guy, so it is nice to know if the sharing plan worked. Good luck with your project! Thanks for watching.
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=sharing
Well, I'm a bit late to the party, Steve, but as a layman whose idea of electrical work is "Flip the switch. If it comes on, great, if not, call an electrician"
I have to say that you explained things in such a manner that even I could understand. You didn't try to go into the theory of electricity, which is pointless to someone who wants to know what wire goes where, and you certainly didn't come off like Sheldon trying to teach Penny about physics. You actually explained this in a way that makes people like me understand it enough to give it a shot.
Thanks for a great video. And I'd love to see the spreadsheets for the calculations. It would make this a far less daunting task!
I've only got one question. How in the world did you find all those guys named "Steve" to help produce and create the video?
Hi Lancer, thank you for the comment. My goal was to guide people through the entire process. I am convinced that when I filed for owner/builder doing electrical work, they made me do everything they are allowed to do, which isn't a bad thing, but it made me do a lot of homework. I hope my homework makes this a breeze for others. My video production staff consists of Steve, A-hole Steve and Stunted Steve, haha. Below are the links to the files on a Google Drive. I am not an IT guy, so if you cannot get them let me know and I will email them to you. Good luck with your new electric and thanks for watching!
Just a quick note: NEC 2020 changed load calculations, but the way I read it, it only affects offices and commercial buildings, not residential. Offices and commercial buildings now use more energy efficient LED lighting so they reduced the standard 3VA per sq/ft to 1.5VA per sq/ft. Residential remains at 3VA per sq/ft.
Please let me know if you were able to download the files below.
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=sharing
@@StevesStrayStuff Yeah, I got them, many thanks!! And I'll be sure to let you know how it works out when I get it finished!
@@lancer525 Okay. Good Luck!
I see you added a neutral lug for your white wire. did you remove a screw and buy a new (additional) lug? thanks for the video A+
Good morning bkoz. I am sorry I do not have an answer for your question, the large lugs for the the white wire were already existing in the Main Panel and in the Sub Panel. Thank you for watching!
That's the first time I've ever seen anyone show the permit process.
Hi Warren. With all of the information available on UA-cam, that is the one thing I could not find, so I opted to include the permit process in this video. I want to help other DIYers with their sub panel paperwork. Thanks for watching.
@@StevesStrayStuff much appreciated.
Hey Steve: Was just re-watching your video (great!), and noticed something that I hadn’t seen the first times that I watched. It looks as though you used something to cover the mounting screws or lag bolt heads at the back of the sub panel. (?). At the 4 points, back of the panel behind the wires, there’s what looks like white caulk or silicone covering the screw/bolt heads? I’d never seen this before; seems like a good idea; and may be a common practice; but could you elaborate? Sorry if this has been already asked or is common knowledge.
Hi Leon. You are absolutely correct. I used caulking over the lag bolt heads to provide chafe protection. The lag bolt heads are tall because they have a hex head with a phillips and were not fully recessed within the panel's dimples. I didn't want to nick any wire insulation while routing the wires in the panel.
Thanks a ton. Again, not sure if it’s a common practice, but sure seems like a great idea for the added safety. Well worth the time & cost. Maybe not for contractors who’re doing new build rough-ins on a schedule. But for a homeowner with a permit like me, I’ll take that time to squeeze out a little caulk or silicone to cover the hex heads. (Learnin’ all the time.)
I’m about to finally get a permit for my sub panel install, and I’ll add that into the mix.
@@leoncargile4204 I've never seen anyone do it before and the Inspector didn't say anything. Good luck with your project.
I'm debating adding a sub panel for my basement. The builder filled up every circuit available in my panel when building the house. I added 3 circuits for the basement when I finished it, and to accomplish that we replaced 3 full height 15A breakers with 6 half height 15A breakers (my Dad was a licensed commercial electrician and said it was fine, but now he has passed away). Now I'm adding 3 20A circuits for a computer equipment rack for my home theater amplifiers (2 20A circuits) and one 20A subwoofer circuit. If I did the same thing and replaced 3 20A full height breakers with half height, is there a way to determine if I'm adding too many circuits to my panel? I've never had a problem with tripping breakers or anything in my current set up.
Great video by the way..
Hi irwfcm. If you use my load calculation sheet, you will be able to determine the calculated service load of your home per NEC 2017 and then you can compare it to the rating of you current load center. You just need to know how many watts each piece of equipment draws that you already have and what you want to add. Send me an email request to no4injunk@aol.com and I will send you the load calculation spreadsheet and how to fill it out. Thanks for watching and I hope I can help you out!
@@StevesStrayStuff thanks for the info. I'm very good with Excel so I can knock out a simple spreadsheet like that in no time. I may let you know if I need any help when I get into the actual calculation, but I should be fine. I thought there might be some general rule that in a 225A panel you can have XXX amps worth of breakers in there, or that you can exceed the 225A by a certain percentage. But I see it would make sense to talk about the actual numbers.
You may need to check NEC 2017 to see if there are any fill percentage requirement for a Service Entrance Panel wiring. I know Articles 312 and 314 cover Cabinets, Enclosures, Outlet and Junction Boxes, but I do not recall seeing anything that addressed a Service Entrance Panel.
@@StevesStrayStuff thanks for additional info. Your comment led me to something that answered my question. There is a label on all service panels that tells you the maximum number of individual circuits that can be installed in the panel. Also, a lot of times there are restrictions about where tandem breakers can be located in the panel. In my case, my panel says I can have 40 breakers installed and after adding my additional circuits I will only be at 29 and tandem breakers are allowed anywhere in the panel, so I'm in good shape there. I am going to do a load calculation just be safe that I won't try to draw more amps than the service can support, but I'm pretty sure I'll be safe there as well.
Safety first. Enjoy your electrical rework.
Quick question , you installing a 125A SUB PANEL OFF YOUR 200A MAIN PANEL WITH A 100A BREAKER SIDE BY SIDE IF I NEEDED TO INSTALL MY SUBPANEL 40 FEET AWAY FROM THE SAME 200A MAIN PANEL DO I NEED A SEPARATE EARTH ROD WITH 35 GAUGE EARTH WIRE. AND CAN I INSTALL A MAIN BREAKER IN THE SUB PANEL SAME 100A BERAKER
Is your sub panel within the same interior of the main panel dwelling? You would need to do load calculations to see if your current 200A panel can handle the load you want to add. Thanks for watching.
Great video. Please share the spreadsheets! Thanks
Here you go Jan. Please let me know if you get them. I am not an IT guy, so it is nice to know if the sharing plan worked. Good luck with your project!
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=sharing
I would like the spreadsheet link(s) you offer. Thanks
Hi Juno. We are now at NEC 2020, so if it says 2017 on the sheet, change it to 2020. Here are the links to the Load Calculation sheets. Please let me know if you where able to access them. If you need the Panel Schedules too, I will upload those and let you know. Thanks for watching.
drive.google.com/file/d/1ZnPp8Su8rJcbXnkrJZPI4I2hJolJVTLI/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1Hx7XXakt9uqOLh2LUyKyECsLsVDTv2Bl/view?usp=sharing
great video, thank you! quick question >> I live in a garage apt type place. I have a 100 amp main panel on the main house. It feeds a sub panel which is inside my garage apartment. The only thing in the main panel on the house is a 100amp breaker main cutoff (for my 100a service). All of my separate breakers for circuits in my apartment are in the panel in my garage apartment ( a sub panel). The electrician who helped me did not remove the green ground screw in my sub panel. I think I know the answer, but don't I need to remove that green ground screw in the sub panel? It's been working fine for a couple of years.... but.... I've never checked to see if there is current running on the grounds in my place. thanks
Hi rhender. It would be wrong of me to give you a right or wrong answer without looking at what you have because there are variables. Is the sub panel near the main panel? Is the sub panel within the same dwelling as the main panel? Is the sub panel part of the garage/apartment which could be a detached structure? These things make a difference. I would recommend that you take a look at NEC 2017 Article 250 Grounding and Bonding to see what category your installation is in. Sorry that I cannot give you more information than that, but do not want to mislead or endanger anyone. Thanks for watching.
@@StevesStrayStuff Thanks Steve. Sub Panel is not near main panel. Main panel is on outside of main house which is 40 feet away from me. Sub panel is inside my garage apt. Main panel on house feeds my sub panel from an overhead set of wires covered by weather head etc. So yes, the sub panel is in a detached structure. There are grounding rods on both the main panel, and the sub panel in my garage apartment. I'm thinking that I should probably remove the bonding green screw in my sub panel, because it is not the main panel. thanks for taking the time.
I'll definitely look up NEC reference you gave me. Thanks for doing that.
last thing I'll say is that my electrician was nuts. Just because he didn't remove that bond screw doesn't mean anything. He was crazy.
@rhender Just by what you described, you may want to have another electrician take a look at it because it sounds like you have the situation shown in NEC 2017 Exhibit 250.19 ( within Article 250.32 ), which requires neutral isolation from the ground in the sub panel. If that is the case, the your are correct, the green screw should not be present in the remote building, but the grounds and neutrals would have to go their respective buses as well (grounds and neutrals cannot be mixed in the sub panel). Good luck and stay safe!
Hey Steve, where did you find these fillable forms? I have found some, but these seem to be the best.
Hi David. I made them myself using Excel. I can email them to you if you'd like.
@@StevesStrayStuff sure thing. my email is dd8309758@gmail.com
@@davidlangdon2895 I sent them. If you have issues, let me know.
Great video. One question though. Why use a 100 amp breaker to protect a 125 amp sub panel? Is this common practice? Aren’t you then limiting yourself to 100 amps? If I actually need 125 amps should I install a 150 amp sub panel? Thanks!
Hi Charles, very good question. Yes, you are correct, I am limiting myself to 100 amps of service in the 125 amp panel. I could have used a 125 amp circuit breaker, but then I would have had to increase my feeder size, which could be a bear to work with. However, I will never come close to needing the full 100 amps that I have available. I chose the 125 amp panel because of its large physical size and the thirty two spaces. The required ground bar takes up a lot of real estate in that sub panel and I didn't want it to turn into a rat's nest in a sardine can, I wanted room to work and I wanted to make it look nice.
I do not not know how many branch circuits you plan on adding. Are you adding numerous 15/20 amp branch circuits or are you adding a few larger amperage branch circuits? If you actually need 125 amps, I would install a 150 amp or 200 amp sub panel just to give you the room to accommodate the required ground bar. Feeders for 125 amps, 150 amps or 200 amps are going to wrestle you. Thanks for watch and enjoy your new electric service.
@@StevesStrayStuff Thanks for the answer Steve. That definitely makes sense. Maybe I should go with a bigger panel. I'm expecting to need 125 amps because I will be using large 220V woodworking equipment in my new garage/wood shop. I'm basically just copying what was done in my old shop. It had a 125 amp breaker. I'm not sure what size the panel was though. Plus, I will be adding a mini split AC unit which will pull 15 amps of 220V. Didn't have that in the old shop. As far as 20amp branch circuits go, probably just two or three. I figure its better to go big so I won't run out of juice.
Thanks for the great info!
Can you route the wires inside the wall to the new panel?
Hi Parker. You could run the feeders in the wall, but the existing branch circuits and wall studs could create problems, especially if the studs are load bearing. The THHN wires I used must be run in conduit. SER cable does not need to be in run conduit, but it looks like it is very hard to work with. If you do opt to go the in-wall route using SER cable, you do have to adhere to NEC 2017 Article 300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage. Good luck with your sub panel and thanks for watching.
@@StevesStrayStuff Thanks for the detailed answer.
You're welcome.
man talk about privacy invasion. they want to know what color under wear you use.
Ha-ha! Underwear?? No underwear, just commando!
Can I get the spreadsheet please.
Sure. Here is the link to the share drive. Let me know if you got them or do I need to approve the link for you.
Existing Loads
drive.google.com/file/d/1Hx7XXakt9uqOLh2LUyKyECsLsVDTv2Bl/view?usp=sharing
New loads
drive.google.com/file/d/1ZnPp8Su8rJcbXnkrJZPI4I2hJolJVTLI/view?usp=sharing
Great video friend
Thank you Grasya and thanks for watching.
Did the city require load calculation sheet because you applied for a permit as a homeowner? Would they have required a licensed electrician to do the same thing?
Good question Billy. All the paperwork shown in my video is what the city required me to submit for them to issue me the permit. Did the city hold me to a more stringent application process? I do not know for sure. I would image that the Authorities Having Jurisdiction would hold the owner/builder affidavit filer to a more thorough permit application process than a licensed electrician and I really cannot blame them. I just kept providing them the information they requested.
I think they were just trying to break Steve's back, thinking he couldn't do it forcing him to hire an engineer or someone to figure it out. And Steve did such a great job using that template from excel. Me, I'm computer illiterate. Those authorities should have provided Steve with the sheets he needed to fill out. And that's bull anyways. If they're making such a big deal about load calcs they should have had them from the original house. I guess they figured that more appliances had been added. What a joke. They could have probably figured out his load from previous electric bill. They just wanted to be dicks. I've looked at plenty of videos of guys putting power to their out buildings and those that were inspected didn't have load calculation. They concerned themselves with proper size feeder wires and grounding. If the load on the service drop and on the main panel is too much then the owner fixed it. They never change out the service drop if it's feeding sn existing 200 amp panel. Jerks.
like the load calculations sheet and info .
Thank you Billy, I hope it helps you out. It took me quite a bit of time to figure all of that out and I wanted to pass it on to make it easier for others.
@@StevesStrayStuff Do you happen to have a link to where those sheets could be downloaded?
@@flajax9122 I cannot find a way to link or attach the spreadsheets. Give me your email address and I will send them to you, I have sent them to many viewers through their email. Thanks for watching.
where did you get the fittings from
Hi arrow. The 90 degree radius elbow and metallic offsets from Home Depot and the other 2" PVC fittings I used are from PVC Fittings Online.
Why didn't you use a plastic LB instead of that big big box coming out the panel?
I did buy a 2" LB and tried to use it, but everything would have to align too exact and where I needed to put the sub panel was making it very difficult. It was easier for me to make it a three step process. Get the wires out of the main panel and through the wall first, add the junction box second, figure out the conduit to sub panel third. Using the big, big junction box gave me six inches of up/down adjustment, six inches of left/right adjustment and four inches of in/out from the wall adjustment. It all went together nicely. Thanks for watching.
@@StevesStrayStuff you did a really good job my friend.
@@torodaman Thank you, I appreciate that.
Would like that excel file please.
Here you go Mohamad. Please let me know if you get them. I am not an IT guy, so it is nice to know if the sharing plan worked. Good luck with your project! Thanks for watching.
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=sharing
Buddy this video was excellent. Can you please upload your Excel templates and post links?
Thank you very much. I am not a UA-cam wizard, but if I can figure out how to link the excel files to this channel/video, I would be more than happy to share. Thanks for watching.
@@StevesStrayStuff did you ever make it happen? As a person with a youtube account there should be a way to get a google drive account if you dont already have one. you can post the docs there with a "public link" to share
@Road Block I am old and muddle through this stuff. See if this works and please let me know if it does.
drive.google.com/file/d/1Hx7XXakt9uqOLh2LUyKyECsLsVDTv2Bl/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1ZnPp8Su8rJcbXnkrJZPI4I2hJolJVTLI/view?usp=sharing
Hey there, try these links and let me know if you can access them.
drive.google.com/file/d/1Hx7XXakt9uqOLh2LUyKyECsLsVDTv2Bl/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1ZnPp8Su8rJcbXnkrJZPI4I2hJolJVTLI/view?usp=sharing
I guess if your stove, water heater, dryer, and furnace were gas, you'd put zero in those sections.
Those gas appliances still use some electricity for their control circuits. Look in the owner's manuals or look for data plates or stickers on each appliance for their consumption.
If you still have your templates could one over thanks
Here you go Nathan. Please let me know if you get them. The Load Calculations changed in NEC 2020 between residential and commercial due to LED office lighting so these sheets are for residential, which still uses 3VA/sq.ft
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=sharing
Why not pay a little bit extra and mount a second main panel, mount it inside the wall right next to its host panel, avoid using any conduit (drill through the the stud to run the wiring) and make look better?
Hi Art. I did think about that, but I think there would have been complications. For some reason, there are extra studs in the wall that did not make sense to me, so I opted to go the surface mount route. With the surface mount approach, there were no surprises. Thanks for watching.
Your hired!
Thank you Brian!
awesome
Thanks Gary.
can you please send me an excel sheet please.
Hi John. Here are the links. Let know if you are able to access them. Good luck with your new electric!
drive.google.com/file/d/1qddJU2kwKUKR2VKT3VlAEdrFxXqJrEBU/view?usp=drivesdk
drive.google.com/file/d/1qIner7SuWUWWhUNwS56zQR1N7Nt3lpp0/view?usp=drivesdk
Fucken right
Thank you Ray! I feel the same way. Thanks for watching.
Hello Steve, do you need a permit?
Hi Free, I am going to answer you with 'yes', for three important reasons: The occupant's safety, in case you ever have a fire and if you ever want to sell your home. A permit requires you to have an inspection. When you pass the inspection it is documented. If your home were to ever catch on fire and it was related to this installation, you are covered. If you did not go through the permit process, the insurance company might not cover you. If you ever go to sell your home, it is going to cost you big $$$ to make everything right in the end. It is well worth paying the $250 up front, get the permit, have your panel inspected and go from there. You are free to install your panel however you want, but I recommend going through the proper permit process, it isn't that hard. Just pay attention to details, do it correctly and you will be fine. I am not a professional and I passed my inspection on the first visit.
@@StevesStrayStuff Ok, thank you! Have a good day.
WHY is that Sub Panel mounted HIGHER than the Main Panel ?? You should have kept the top of the Sub even with the Top of the Main !
I mounted the sub panel as high as I possibly could on purpose. If I mounted the sub panel the same height as the Main Panel, I would have limited myself to 40% conduit fill instead of 60% conduit fill when running my new non-metallic (NM) branch circuits through conduit into a load center. Per NEC 2017, if the conduit length exceed 24 inches, I am limited to 40% conduit fill. With the sub panel installed high, my conduit length is only 22.5 inches which allows me to us 60% conduit fill per NEC 2017 Chapter 9 Table 1, Notes 1 -7. Note 4 covers the 60% conduit fill.
Impressive enough for me to Sub.
Thank you for kind words and thanks for watching!
Nice job! Out of curiosity, how much length of wire did you need to feed the subpanel?
Thank you David. I purchased ten feet of each color and used five to six feet of each. The wire was $0.99 per foot. I purchased the wire from Wire & Cable Your Way. Thanks for watching.
www.wireandcableyourway.com/
Not a chance that i'd ever contact a building inspector unless I was forced to by actually building something visible from the outside of the home.
I just wanted to be legal because electricity is very unforgiving and kills people. If your home has an electrical fire and they find electrical work was performed without a permit, your insurance company may not cover you. If you ever go to sell, it could be a costly problem too.
No doubt you've done a good job. However I hope other people don't think it's easy and safe to do their own electrical work . I started my electrical apprenticeship in the mid 60s. Not long after I started a 3rd year apprentice was electrocuted because a home owner had done his own electrical extension . The apprentice did everything right, he'd removed the fuses to the power circuit before drilling up through the bottom plate of a timber wall. Unbeknown to him the home owner had fixed the hot water circuit to the bottom plate inside the wall, and the apprentice drilled into it using a hand operated brace and bit. He died there, under the floor, recently married with a baby due . A properly trained electrician would not have clipped a cable to the bottom plate inside a concealed wall. There's no wiring rule that says it must not be done, but it's just good work practice, something you learn as an apprentice . The owner had saved himself a few dollars by doing his own electrical work, but at what cost.?
That is a very sobering event Phil. Electricity is merciless when it comes to mistakes. You're right, if people do their own home wiring, take shortcuts or install things without best practices in mind, unsuspecting innocent people become the victims.
Without a permit. Did that home owner get sued or did he play stupid and say it was something he didn't know about from the previous owner if there was one.
Just worry about your haircut!!!
A haircut??? What's that????? I am going for the 'Vigo The Carpathian Medieval Evil Look' and I think I nailed it! What do you think?
You can't use plumbing pipe for electrical wiring!!!
The conduit and fittings I used are Schedule 40 PVC or Schedule 80 PVC, which is acceptable per NEC 2017 Article 352. It was inspected and approved. The AHJ has spoken! Who am I to argue with authority?????
The schedule 80 elbows are a violation of the NEC. Your inspector is incompetent.
Hi Nathan. I wish you would have indicated what Article(s) you are referencing so you can help others, because to me, NEC 2017 Article 352 reads differently. If my installation is in violation of the NEC, I guess it was my lucky day when the AHJ signed off on it. Thanks for watching.
@@StevesStrayStuff The schedule 80 plumbing elbows are not listed for electrical use period. How about providing the article of the NEC that allows plumbing fittings! What a joke!
@@nathanr.8556 I guess I am somebody that fell through the crack.
@@StevesStrayStuff You are somebody that has no business misleading people on UA-cam by insinuating that your work is acceptable
Gray = Electrical. Right or wrong, at least my three feet of conduit is continuous.
PVC metal no no no ugly panel look like owner
Hi Luis. The county signed off on my installation, but maybe the inspector missed something???? I spent hours in the NEC 2017 Handbook making sure my installation is per the current code. The two metallic offset nipples are properly bonded to the load center enclosures. Please let me know what Article of NEC 2017 you think I violated. Or is this just your opinion of your personal preference? The last thing I want to do is to pass on bad information to others. Thanks for watching.
Hi sparky. The two metallic offset nipples each have a metallic lock ring at each enclosure to properly bond the metallic offset nipples to the enclosures. I did use plastic insulated bushings on the metallic nipples for chafe protection.
That's because it is. The guy obviously did his homework and did a decent job, but you cant expect a homeowner to know all the materials available to do it professionally.
Thank you Ryan, I appreciate your comment. I just hope I am not ugly too, haha.
Sorry but using plumbing copling in electric kill me and yes you're ugly jjjjaaa
That is all no good!!
Sure it is. It is fabulous! Otherwise, the Inspector would not have signed off on it.
STOP saying '' VA '' !! Call It what it is , '' VOLT AMPS " !!! '' VA '' is the Veteran's Administration !!!!
For both of us to be 100% correct, VA is volt-amperes, not volt amps. However, VA is how volt-amperes is represented in formulas and on a Load Calculation sheet, 20 A X 120 V = 2400 VA. My main goal was to let people know that the VA is considered the same as Watts per NEC 2017. I will say volt-amperes from now on, I promise.