For the regular dialga users, there is NO need to build the origin forme and here is why: Some feedback: (Pro tip 1: ALWAYS run dialga best buddied) + Regular dialga with best buddy will always win CMP over the origin form. Dialga is the most used pokemon according to pvpoke. So losing cmp on the most used pokemon can be a game breaker. + A best buddied dialga will win against reshiram and mamoswine in the 0 shields. Only a NON best buddied will lose against those. + Losing CMP against groudon, kyogre, reshiram, zekrom and the mirror is also a game breaker. + Landorus incarnate isnt used in the high elo range, neither in low-average elo range (i am currently on 3300 elo and havent seen a single one the last 2 months, same can be said about ursaluna) + Regular best buddied dialga will actually win against mudshot garchomp because of the breakpoint it has. (in the 0&1 shields) + 2 Shields scenarios are litteraly the same + the match up against landorus therian forme will be worse, after hitting a sandear storm you will get way more farm/energy (Speaking about the mega master leagua, i dont play that and niantic has no plans to bring it back) So i completely disagree with your statement that you NEED an origin form. Simply not true. Good video tho. Cheers
We can agree to disagree😊 I do think that the ~5% extra bulk is very relevant - perhaps it might not look like it in simulations but in practice definitely does
@@Inadequance Yeah true tho 🤗, but looking at the sims i dont see myself spending another 296xl for almost the exact same thing. Same cant be said about palkia tho. The regular dialga scores even higher in the 1 shields without roar of time 🤔
@@Inadequanceagreed, in any uneven matchups (like on safe switch or coming out of another matchup), the bulk will be helpful and hard to quantify by simulation
You see lots of things like incarnete lando and some of those megas and ursaluna in battle frontier (new silph factions) and in lots of show 6 ml tournaments
Great content! So glad I found your channel. My best o-palkia is a 13/15/15. I understand I lose CMP tie in the mirror but if I’m not leading with him that shouldn’t be a problem. Do you know if I lose any important attack break points vs the 15/14 attack o-palkia, besides Swampert?
I had to power up my shiny 15/15/13 palkia. Also had to power up my 15/13/15 shiny dialga. Both the origin forms. I'd rather power up those good shinies than a 100% variant, not that I got any after 100 raids😂
Are you sure? I also tought the 15/15/13 would be better but PVPoke says the 15/14/14 would get 1 more win. (against normal dialga in the 1 shield)@@LukeNichols19
Hello so I got a little confused. A tiny bit lol I have a 14/15/15 palkia orgin from sinnoh tour LA… if I get a 15/14/15 from global which one should I power up ? You said 15 defense but also if I don’t have 15 attack I lose cmp. So which is better? This is me asking in case I don’t get a hundo during global lol
Thats for yourself to decide what you find more important. I find 15 defense more important to avoid the breakpoint Origin Dialga gets. If you know you lose CMP in the mirror, you can still play with that by not leading the Palkia or catching on another Pokemon when you’d reach CMP
Where does 15/15/13 fall? It has perfect attack and defense which was what we should focus on but it still does lose to both sinnoh and origin palkias because of less hp. Worth building or not?
@@Inadequance what about a 15/15/13? Had the 15 attack and 15 defense you mention but does the 13 hp mess it all up? I seem tired get everything but a 98. I have like 6 (96) iv ones lmao
Which origin Dialga is better? 15/14/15 or 14/15/15? I would assume the 15-ATK is better, but most of the IV ranking websites list the 14/15/15 higher.
15 attack is definitely the way. Most important bulkpoint you miss is Kyogre. HOWEVER: Very few Kyogre are best buddied. So if your Origin Dialga is, you will still get the bulkpoint vs Kyogre. And because you are 15 attack, you also may hit breakpoint vs Origin Palkia, and win CMP against other Origin Dialga, Kyogre and Groudon
I think if one has a 15/14/15 palkia with bb covers enough problems...only breakpoints remaining are the dialga bb and lando bb..the second one might be a bit problematic but you still win switch whatever they do so i dont think it's a bad idea to power up a 98 palkia with 14 def...plus you'd use the ribbon on palkia either way most likely hahahah
Hey! I got a 15/15/10 palkia shiny with spacial rend. Does that meet the breakpoints? Or just hold out for a hundo? Also got a hundo but no spacial rend :/
I have two 98% Origin Palkias: 15-14-15 and 14-15-15. It sounds like you would recommend building the 14-15-15 and perhaps Best Buddying it? Which moveset would you recommend?
The difference between the two is that you either lose CMP in the mirror, or lose harder to Origin Dialga. Considering the mirror is quite close regardless because dragon fast attacks do so much damage, I would choose 14/15/15 over 15/15/14. Best buddy definitely helps in case the Dialga is also best buddied. Recommended moveset is breath/tail (I like tail for its strength, though breath plays a bit more flexible) + Aqua tail & Spacial rend
@@InadequanceI got a 15/14/15 Origin Palkia and a 14/15/15 and was so dissappointed cause I thought I had an amazing one with 15 attack.. freaking 15 DEF bulkpoint. I am having a really hard time OCD wise spending 300 XL candies on the 14 attack one because until now I had NEVER, ever powered a non-15 attack mon for the Master League, but I think I will have to swallow my perfectionism and do it, cause realistically I’m not gonna raid Palkia Origin ever again, did like 120 raids yesterday and ended up nauseated at the ridiculousness of it all. Inadequance can I have your blessing to power up my 14 attack Palkia so that I never lose CMPs and my brain doesnt break pls 😂 (nah seriously, I should do that right? Instead of the 14 DEF one taking into account that these are the best Palkias I’ll ever have)
@@Dantehhhhhlol you have my blessing BUT unless you are still trying to get legend this season and insist on doing this with Palkia, you might want to do lucky trades to get a hundo or 15/15/14, or if you are patient - I have a feeling they may come again with GO fest as well. They did same with Primal raids last year
Lose harded is true, be relative. In sims, its a difference of losing with Dialga having 12 more hp and the same amount of energy in both the 0 and 1 shield scenario. In 0 shield, Dialga limps away with 3 (15 def) or 15 (14 def) hp and no energy.
I have a 14/15/15 Palkia (Origin) that I have best buddied that I wanted to team up with my 15/15/14 Dialga (Origin) (Landorus (T) as safe swap)). One problem (aside from 14 attack on Palkia) si that Dialga does not have RoT.. if I intend to use the Dialga as a closer would it be okay to build this one with Draco Meteor or would you suggest trying to lucky trade for one with RoT and 15/15/15 or 15/15/14 IVs?
So if I got that right, my 15-14-15 Origin Palkia losing a bp vs origin Dialga is worse than my 15-15-13 Origin Palkia, despite pvpoke saying there's no difference between a hundo and a 15-14-15 o.palkia? It'd be shattering to know but also very useful :D
@@Inadequance Nono the O.Dialga match up definitely is worsened by 1 def stat less. It's just a bit weird that while running the matrix sim to answer to this comment with actual numbers, the 15-15-13 suddenly only loses to Palkias, whereas I remember having less favoured match ups last I checked(???) :D It does seem like 15-15-13 would be a better choice than the 15-14-15, Kind of like how it was with Sinnoh Dialga after all, brings back "amazing" memories :D!
@@matteovalentini4850 the difference with sinnoh dialga was that 15/15/14 had the same hp as hundo and 15/15/13 only had one less that changed nothing. 15/15/14 origin palkia has one less hp than hundo which also changes nothing but 15/15/13 has 2hp less and changes quite a bit more as you no longer beat either sinnoh or origin palkia. I have 15/15/13 myself as my best palkia and I’m still not 100% sold on whether it’s worth the investment, I don’t raid much and so if I max a legendary it better be a hundo or effective hundo. 15/15/13 palkia o unfortunately is not, but then if I don’t build this I won’t have this Pokémon at all..
@@dannstarrjp yeah, you're voicing my feelings exactly! I think, despite master league being playable now and very tempting, we should suck it up and plan to get lucky trades palkia :) most people chose pearl path anyway, I don't know a single local who raided origin dialga instead
Yes! All my simulations actually have been under the assumption that sinnoh Dialga also gets Roar of Time. And it will still only pick up the 0s in the mirror
@@Inadequance I see, thank you for your insight and quick response. Time to grind XLs for o-dialga since I just got the hundo yesterday (after like 25 raids) and don’t have a dialga built up yet as I just started playing the game again last summer
So I have the new forms with IVs for master league, is there any reason to keep trying to get the old forms apart from a collection or something when they come back? Or just stay with my origin forms Edit: my origin palkia is 15/14/15
Old forms are not super necessary but OK to have a few. Especially Sinnoh Palkia is kind of redundant, but may cost a few less points in point formats in like Battle Frontier
@Inadequance just making sure I didn't miss out on anything, I hadn't played when sinnoh forms were around before and I only focused on origin, thanks for the help and clarification
I think Origin Dialga is the safer pick to go with if you don’t have one yet. If you already have a Sinnoh Dialga built you probably want to focus more on Origin Palkia
We already know we need both. What I need to know is how i’m going to get enough raids in in such a short timespan. Do you get some kind of premium service on a raiding app?
@@Inadequance With their pricing it 100% is a scam, but so is pokemon go and their pricing. I am still willing to waste the money so if paying 60€ extra on a raiding app can get me the raids in i’m all for it, just need to know if it actually works.
Smh i have 2 lvl 50 dialga and palkia now its absolute garbage. Now im stuck to raid these. :( this truly pay to win when it comes to master league. Fuckin hate niantic i swear.
I do agree in the p2w part, the thing with og Dialga and O Dialga both have their pros and cons to use. I'm sure in the future both normal Dialga and Palkia will have their signature moves.
So level 51 sinnoh dialga is actually not that far behind level 51 origin dialga (or maybe even better?). Everybody uses dialga at level 51 so as long as I agree with palkia being a huge upgrade, I don’t think dialga quite is
The theoretical matchups you pick up are the ones I showed in the graphs in the video. In practice Origin Dialga will do just better as it has like 5% more bulk
Its the lowest you really want to go, and will work out just fine. If you are in no rush though, a few weeks to see if a trade comes through doesn't hurt.
For the regular dialga users, there is NO need to build the origin forme and here is why:
Some feedback:
(Pro tip 1: ALWAYS run dialga best buddied)
+ Regular dialga with best buddy will always win CMP over the origin form. Dialga is the most used pokemon according to pvpoke. So losing cmp on the most used pokemon can be a game breaker.
+ A best buddied dialga will win against reshiram and mamoswine in the 0 shields. Only a NON best buddied will lose against those.
+ Losing CMP against groudon, kyogre, reshiram, zekrom and the mirror is also a game breaker.
+ Landorus incarnate isnt used in the high elo range, neither in low-average elo range (i am currently on 3300 elo and havent seen a single one the last 2 months, same can be said about ursaluna)
+ Regular best buddied dialga will actually win against mudshot garchomp because of the breakpoint it has. (in the 0&1 shields)
+ 2 Shields scenarios are litteraly the same
+ the match up against landorus therian forme will be worse, after hitting a sandear storm you will get way more farm/energy
(Speaking about the mega master leagua, i dont play that and niantic has no plans to bring it back)
So i completely disagree with your statement that you NEED an origin form. Simply not true. Good video tho.
Cheers
We can agree to disagree😊
I do think that the ~5% extra bulk is very relevant - perhaps it might not look like it in simulations but in practice definitely does
@@Inadequance Yeah true tho 🤗,
but looking at the sims i dont see myself spending another 296xl for almost the exact same thing. Same cant be said about palkia tho. The regular dialga scores even higher in the 1 shields without roar of time 🤔
@@Inadequanceagreed, in any uneven matchups (like on safe switch or coming out of another matchup), the bulk will be helpful and hard to quantify by simulation
You see lots of things like incarnete lando and some of those megas and ursaluna in battle frontier (new silph factions) and in lots of show 6 ml tournaments
Hello so now I was thinking to build 1 dialga Because I don't have inougf xl and I am not a ml player so which one I should build normal or origin?
I climbed from 2500 to 3000 in four days running both of these Pokémon with xerneas as my third, they’re amazing
So my 15-14-15 O-Palkia isn't as good as I thought he was :(
Great content! So glad I found your channel. My best o-palkia is a 13/15/15. I understand I lose CMP tie in the mirror but if I’m not leading with him that shouldn’t be a problem. Do you know if I lose any important attack break points vs the 15/14 attack o-palkia, besides Swampert?
Your Palkia does not miss any breakpoints besides the dragon tail one vs Swampert
My best is a 13/14/14 O Palkia. Does it lose any important breakpoints? Is it still better than the Sinnoh Palkia?
@@mozartkugeln8that is not good enough i would hold off
I had to power up my shiny 15/15/13 palkia. Also had to power up my 15/13/15 shiny dialga. Both the origin forms. I'd rather power up those good shinies than a 100% variant, not that I got any after 100 raids😂
Thanks for the informative video! Really looking forward to raiding these two :)
Thanks for the video. Just to be sure... What Origin Dialga is better? a 15/15/13 or 15/14/14
Attack > defense > hp for masters importance generally. The first is better
Are you sure? I also tought the 15/15/13 would be better but PVPoke says the 15/14/14 would get 1 more win. (against normal dialga in the 1 shield)@@LukeNichols19
Bro my pant,shirt pockets are crying after seeing this video of origin dialga
Sup aid a man
Sweet analysis... Thanks
Hello so I got a little confused. A tiny bit lol I have a 14/15/15 palkia orgin from sinnoh tour LA… if I get a 15/14/15 from global which one should I power up ? You said 15 defense but also if I don’t have 15 attack I lose cmp. So which is better? This is me asking in case I don’t get a hundo during global lol
15-14-15
Thats for yourself to decide what you find more important.
I find 15 defense more important to avoid the breakpoint Origin Dialga gets. If you know you lose CMP in the mirror, you can still play with that by not leading the Palkia or catching on another Pokemon when you’d reach CMP
Where does 15/15/13 fall? It has perfect attack and defense which was what we should focus on but it still does lose to both sinnoh and origin palkias because of less hp. Worth building or not?
@@dannstarrjp this is also something I’d like to know as well.
@@Inadequance what about a 15/15/13? Had the 15 attack and 15 defense you mention but does the 13 hp mess it all up? I seem tired get everything but a 98. I have like 6 (96) iv ones lmao
Which origin Dialga is better? 15/14/15 or 14/15/15? I would assume the 15-ATK is better, but most of the IV ranking websites list the 14/15/15 higher.
15 attack is definitely the way. Most important bulkpoint you miss is Kyogre. HOWEVER:
Very few Kyogre are best buddied. So if your Origin Dialga is, you will still get the bulkpoint vs Kyogre. And because you are 15 attack, you also may hit breakpoint vs Origin Palkia, and win CMP against other Origin Dialga, Kyogre and Groudon
I have 14/15/15 Origin Palkia should i use with Dragon Breath Or Tail?
I think if one has a 15/14/15 palkia with bb covers enough problems...only breakpoints remaining are the dialga bb and lando bb..the second one might be a bit problematic but you still win switch whatever they do so i dont think it's a bad idea to power up a 98 palkia with 14 def...plus you'd use the ribbon on palkia either way most likely hahahah
Hey! I got a 15/15/10 palkia shiny with spacial rend. Does that meet the breakpoints? Or just hold out for a hundo? Also got a hundo but no spacial rend :/
It meets all the break- and bulkpoints, but you may lose some matchups that Palkia otherwise would have won by 4 HP
I have two 98% Origin Palkias: 15-14-15 and 14-15-15. It sounds like you would recommend building the 14-15-15 and perhaps Best Buddying it? Which moveset would you recommend?
The difference between the two is that you either lose CMP in the mirror, or lose harder to Origin Dialga. Considering the mirror is quite close regardless because dragon fast attacks do so much damage, I would choose 14/15/15 over 15/15/14. Best buddy definitely helps in case the Dialga is also best buddied.
Recommended moveset is breath/tail (I like tail for its strength, though breath plays a bit more flexible) + Aqua tail & Spacial rend
@@InadequanceI got a 15/14/15 Origin Palkia and a 14/15/15 and was so dissappointed cause I thought I had an amazing one with 15 attack.. freaking 15 DEF bulkpoint.
I am having a really hard time OCD wise spending 300 XL candies on the 14 attack one because until now I had NEVER, ever powered a non-15 attack mon for the Master League, but I think I will have to swallow my perfectionism and do it, cause realistically I’m not gonna raid Palkia Origin ever again, did like 120 raids yesterday and ended up nauseated at the ridiculousness of it all.
Inadequance can I have your blessing to power up my 14 attack Palkia so that I never lose CMPs and my brain doesnt break pls 😂 (nah seriously, I should do that right? Instead of the 14 DEF one taking into account that these are the best Palkias I’ll ever have)
@@Dantehhhhhlol you have my blessing BUT unless you are still trying to get legend this season and insist on doing this with Palkia, you might want to do lucky trades to get a hundo or 15/15/14, or if you are patient - I have a feeling they may come again with GO fest as well. They did same with Primal raids last year
Lose harded is true, be relative. In sims, its a difference of losing with Dialga having 12 more hp and the same amount of energy in both the 0 and 1 shield scenario. In 0 shield, Dialga limps away with 3 (15 def) or 15 (14 def) hp and no energy.
@Inadequance So a 15/15/14 Origin Palkia is a functional hundo?
Thanks for the video! So for origin dialga should I then power up my 15/15/14 over my 15/14/15?
Absolutely!
15/15/14 dialga has no difference compared to the 100% I believe
@@simonhaas211that’s true mein kamerad
How is a 14/15/14 palkia 🙂 that's the highest I got after 32 raids. How will it fare in master league? Should I invest it upon?
Please reply
Check the other comments
@@Inadequance got it, thank you!
So my origin dialga 15/13/15 isn’t a good choice right?
I have a 14/15/15 Palkia (Origin) that I have best buddied that I wanted to team up with my 15/15/14 Dialga (Origin) (Landorus (T) as safe swap)). One problem (aside from 14 attack on Palkia) si that Dialga does not have RoT.. if I intend to use the Dialga as a closer would it be okay to build this one with Draco Meteor or would you suggest trying to lucky trade for one with RoT and 15/15/15 or 15/15/14 IVs?
I have enough XLs for both from raiding hard last year and just need to get the Hundo now lol
It could me more difficult than colecting xl candies
HI, I have two shiny Dialga_Origin which is 15 14 15 and 15 15 13, which should I invested ? Thank you very much 😀
the 15 14 15 is better, you need the 15 hp stat on it
Thank you very much 😃😃😃
So if I got that right, my 15-14-15 Origin Palkia losing a bp vs origin Dialga is worse than my 15-15-13 Origin Palkia, despite pvpoke saying there's no difference between a hundo and a 15-14-15 o.palkia? It'd be shattering to know but also very useful :D
Did you sim vs sinnoh or origin dialga? Because 14 defense takes 7 damage from Origin Dialga while 15 defense takes 6
@@Inadequance Nono the O.Dialga match up definitely is worsened by 1 def stat less. It's just a bit weird that while running the matrix sim to answer to this comment with actual numbers, the 15-15-13 suddenly only loses to Palkias, whereas I remember having less favoured match ups last I checked(???) :D It does seem like 15-15-13 would be a better choice than the 15-14-15, Kind of like how it was with Sinnoh Dialga after all, brings back "amazing" memories :D!
@@matteovalentini4850 the difference with sinnoh dialga was that 15/15/14 had the same hp as hundo and 15/15/13 only had one less that changed nothing. 15/15/14 origin palkia has one less hp than hundo which also changes nothing but 15/15/13 has 2hp less and changes quite a bit more as you no longer beat either sinnoh or origin palkia. I have 15/15/13 myself as my best palkia and I’m still not 100% sold on whether it’s worth the investment, I don’t raid much and so if I max a legendary it better be a hundo or effective hundo. 15/15/13 palkia o unfortunately is not, but then if I don’t build this I won’t have this Pokémon at all..
@@dannstarrjp yeah, you're voicing my feelings exactly! I think, despite master league being playable now and very tempting, we should suck it up and plan to get lucky trades palkia :) most people chose pearl path anyway, I don't know a single local who raided origin dialga instead
If the altered dialga got access to ROT would it still be worse than the origin?
Yes! All my simulations actually have been under the assumption that sinnoh Dialga also gets Roar of Time. And it will still only pick up the 0s in the mirror
@@Inadequance I see, thank you for your insight and quick response. Time to grind XLs for o-dialga since I just got the hundo yesterday (after like 25 raids) and don’t have a dialga built up yet as I just started playing the game again last summer
@@derekcruz742awesome - good luck!
So I have the new forms with IVs for master league, is there any reason to keep trying to get the old forms apart from a collection or something when they come back? Or just stay with my origin forms
Edit: my origin palkia is 15/14/15
Old forms are not super necessary but OK to have a few. Especially Sinnoh Palkia is kind of redundant, but may cost a few less points in point formats in like Battle Frontier
@Inadequance just making sure I didn't miss out on anything, I hadn't played when sinnoh forms were around before and I only focused on origin, thanks for the help and clarification
Great video, thank you.
just got a 98% palkia origin and a 13/15/15 origin dialga. Im so lucky
So for exampel 15/15/10 is good for pvp is that right?
if i only can focus 1 legendary for grind, which one is better for pvp?
I think Origin Dialga is the safer pick to go with if you don’t have one yet. If you already have a Sinnoh Dialga built you probably want to focus more on Origin Palkia
We already know we need both. What I need to know is how i’m going to get enough raids in in such a short timespan. Do you get some kind of premium service on a raiding app?
There is no such thing and services that do offer are very likely scams
@@Inadequance With their pricing it 100% is a scam, but so is pokemon go and their pricing. I am still willing to waste the money so if paying 60€ extra on a raiding app can get me the raids in i’m all for it, just need to know if it actually works.
It wasn't as bad as I thought, done over 200 raids already. @@Inadequance
Is a 14/14/15 O-Palkia worth LVL50'ing? Not sure if it is worth waiting to trading for one with a 15 ATK?
Never. Be patient
The best i have is 15/14/15. I refuse to invest for non hundo lagendaries. Lol . Master league is avoidable
I've got a 15 12 15 shiny o-dialga and 14 15 14 o-dialga and a 15-15-12 normal dialga. Which one should i power up for pvp?
14-15-14 Best Buddy
I put my dialga origin 15/15/13 in level 50, did i make a good choice? Its just have 1 hp less
Yes, you did the right thing
So is 15/14/15 dialga O functionally as good as a hundo?
yes, the difference is negligible
I got a 100% Origin Palkia... missing the new move.... what should I do 😮💨
Just wait, they will probably allow us to elite tm. I got a 4* dialga-o without the move too
@@kairoshs I bet its going to be a year from now
@EVIZE17 with how Groundon and Kyogre its going to be about 6-8 months before O Dialga and Palkia cab get their moves
Yeah but with origin dialga you lose cmp tie to kyogre and groudon. Losing that cmp to groudon will lose younthe game if you eat a precipice blades
Wtf Inadequance, my wallet is now extremely unhappy with you... 😅
Look at my comment in the comment section before spending any money
Smh i have 2 lvl 50 dialga and palkia now its absolute garbage. Now im stuck to raid these. :( this truly pay to win when it comes to master league. Fuckin hate niantic i swear.
I do agree in the p2w part, the thing with og Dialga and O Dialga both have their pros and cons to use. I'm sure in the future both normal Dialga and Palkia will have their signature moves.
So level 51 sinnoh dialga is actually not that far behind level 51 origin dialga (or maybe even better?). Everybody uses dialga at level 51 so as long as I agree with palkia being a huge upgrade, I don’t think dialga quite is
The theoretical matchups you pick up are the ones I showed in the graphs in the video.
In practice Origin Dialga will do just better as it has like 5% more bulk
How good is palkia 15/13/14?
Terrible, just transfer it
Real? It is shiny though
Its the lowest you really want to go, and will work out just fine. If you are in no rush though, a few weeks to see if a trade comes through doesn't hurt.
👍👍👍👍👍👌
What are the odds they let us elite tm the moves later? My 4* palkia needs to know 🥲
I hope it won’t take too long!
Challenge @itsAXN in a show 6 pick 3 format 😊