Al Kadesih: Iraq's Exceptionally Rare Dragunov Copy
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- utreon.com/c/forgottenweapons/
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/For...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenweapons.com
The Al Kadesih (also sometimes spelled Al Kadesiah or Al Qadisiyah) is an Iraqi copy of the SVD Dragunov DMR/sniper rifle. It is not an exact copy, though, as it uses an AK-style stamped receiver and trunnions in combination with the fire control system and short-stroke gas piston of the SVD.
The rifles were made at the eponymous Al-Quadisiyah Establishment in Iraq, a small arms factory set up with Yugoslav assistance to make small arms. That factory produced a copy of the Yugoslav M70 called the Tabuk as well as other weapons. Rather than completely reverse-engineer the SVD, they adopted the M70/AKM design to do the job. Production appears to have run from 1988 until 1991, with another batch made in 2003 before the US invasion. The total number made is unknown, but certainly only a few thousand. The rifles appear to have been as much for presentations and gifts (gold plated ones, specifically) as for combat use, and they are very rare to see in combat photos.
For more details, check out the Silah Report article on these rifles:
silahreport.com/2020/06/13/th...
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle 36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
Not going to lie, the palm tree and sword as reenforcing ribs is pretty cool!
It was one of the first things I noticed at the start of the video...was wondering if was artistic or just manufacturing. What a cool regional/national touch.
It was also a good idea to work that in in a spot where it (presumably) wouldn't harm function in any way but still be readily visible.
@@tachometer74 In the arab world the palm tree is a symbol of generosity while the sword is a symbol of power, so the creators probably had an idea of what they wanted to convey with it at least.
Much better than "They just make the magazine stronger" that you find on everyone else's Dragunov photocopies.
Great minds think alike.💪👍🥃
This thing is such a cool mix and match, I’d love to get one someday.
Right as I was about to comment something snarky like "Brandon Herrera would like to know your location".
But for real though, where AKG-94.
@@zerocool4835what is 9x23? That sounds really cool
@BrandonHerrera Use your winnings from your first boxing match! Still waiting on that match vid on your B side channel!
@@parallel-knightpretty much spanish 9mm from around ww2
@@forbidden.shadow545use ammo seek or one of the other search sites
Yes, English is taught to all students in Iraqi schools. Also, an Engineer friend of mine from Haditha informed me that all Engineering classes in their Universities have their tests exclusively in English. So, yes, the Engineers in Iraq speak English quite well ...sometimes better than my Marines they were talking to at the time.
A lot of Arabs speak very good English, not me tho I suck at both languages cause my brain is in power saving mode and I forgot how to turn it off.
Lol
As the "SVD we have at home" goes, this is a surprisingly faithful attempt. Only the Chinese went full carbon-copy everything way. Most others went "looks close enough".
Maybe a bit too close. I was hoping that it'd be more of a Galil/Valmet to SVD's (hypothetical, I'm not saying it's related to AK) AKM. No ambidextrous controls, same subpar optics mount that isn't connected to barrel, no bipod mounting, sameish stock. I feel like engineers had some braindead officer above them that constantly was bashing them and demanding exact copy of SVD. Instead of making their own play on PSL/M76/M91/Galil Sniper theme and getting a better more modern rifle.
@@TheArklytesvd is superior to all the rifles you mentioned😂
@@TheArklyte I wish Valmet had made an SVD copy, although the RK series rifles are probably more accurate than SVD anyways. The Finnish doctrine at the time didn't really put emphasis on designated marksmen though, now we're getting a dull piston AR in 7,62x51 for that.
The Chinese had the tools and competency to copy Russian equipment. With these you can see many of the markings are hand-done and at least some key parts were fraudulently re-labled "Made in Iraq."
@@jonmeray713 🤦🤡
The OG wooden furniture SVD is truly a work of art.
Edit: I am so happy to see I'm not the only one who sees the beauty in the way of the wooden furniture.
Wood is good plastic and polymer is a weapon of war-👴🏻
@@Imnotsurewhattoput798 100% correct but I wasn't talking about the weapon I'd rather have in war just the one I think looks cooler. The svsm is objectively better than the SVD in every way.
🫡
@@Djrealfake I wasn’t calling you a fudd I just realized it looked that way I apologize for that I was making a joke about boomers that call everything a weapon of war.
@@Imnotsurewhattoput798 Both wood and plastic contain polymers :D
I was deployed in 2003 and we found truckloads of the “training” rifles you mentioned. A couple of guys lost some fingers before the rifles were brought to me for inspection where we found the chambers were drilled. I’m glad you mentioned that. The ones I saw all had a coin inletted into the butt with the word training in Arabic.
Any idea why they had the chamber drilled and no other preventative measures to stop someone blowing their fingers off?
@@HE-162 Inshallah, you will see the warning and act wisely, Inshallah you will not, and loose some fingers.
@@webtoedmangeniusly designed to make the invaders of your country lose fingers
@@webtoedman 😆
@@webtoedmanbased
Fun fact or maybe not realy fun:
After Yugoslav company Zastava finished factory in Iraq they keept supervisors there for the first 2 years of production, then they left, the quality of the guns immediately plumed.
Some old guys who were there as supervisors or something like that, told me that it was painful to watch what attitude had Iraq workers to the product, bare in mind that Zastava arms was never a swiss watch factory, if they were horrified, it had to be bad there.
*shakes head sadly* Fancy stuff isn't good enough. You need to keep the quality up when the experts are gone: Read the Manuals, Know the Manuals. And you need proper maintenance.
I don't know if the video is still up, but Kalashnikov Konzern posted a series of videos with one of their tech experts - Vladimir Onokoy, if memory serves - who's apparently been around some very interesting places. One of the video series was on the worst AKs he'd ever encountered, and the Iraqi rifles got an episode. He gave examples of some of the QC issues the Tabuk rifles had, and it's pretty hair-raising.
@@ca9968 nobody wants to say it
@@ca9968 yep, SA went to shit
As an Iraqi, I am glad to see you posted about the local industry in my country. Thank you
Will they export this to the US? Pretty pleeeeeeaaaasssse?
@@ChaohsiangChen I do not know, as they are available in some military museums in Iraq, which include items from the remnants of the Iran-Iraq war. A Syrian friend of mine who used to live in Saudi Arabia says that there were some Iraqi weapons present there, such as Tabuk snipers, about the Qadisiyah weapon being one of these available weapons, but in general I do not know Guaranteed way to get a model of Iraqi weapons
socialist pan-Arab garbage
It's about all they've got!
I totally wish we could buy these in the USA. Sweet rifle.
The only SVD model that is delivered with a mustache
Mustache, sunglasses, and sometimes a beret.
When the Dragunov we have at home is cooler than the real deal.
The reinforcement plates for the stock are kind of a deal breaker for me. They look very PSL-like, which means this gun might be fated to destroy itself with enough mags down the pipe.
Although as a short stroke gas piston system as opposed to the AK long stroke, and assuming it isn't overgassed (which is a justifiable stretch, but benefit of the doubt), it might have a chance at outliving a PSL at least.
@@Anino_Makataaccording to war vets in the comments that might have captured these, theyre high recoil
@@lucibvee Oh... okay, yeah. They're fated to destroy themselves.
I think I fired one of these things in 2005, in Ramadi, Iraq. We confiscated tons of rifles from local fighters, and sometimes took a selection out to the FOB range to mess around with. I remember the palm-tree stamped magazine and the overall 'imitation SVD' look of it. Very nose-heavy and irritating amount of recoil. It was sadly probably destroyed in 2005 or 2006 along with the other confiscated weapons.
Yeah, the US army forced the Mahdi army which was run Muqtada Al-Saddar to handle all their guns in that time
Thank you for your service, those mag stampings sure are distinctive. I kinda wish more metal mags had that going on.
yall found any WMD?
@@waleed8530 Not even a ghost. Nothing like that to find. We did find some amazingly old stuff, like a pretty good condition MG42, an M1 Garand, and a Stirling SMG.
@@waleed8530 just the ones in your mom's bedside drawer.
Iraqi Made Yugo M92 clones were extremely popular by the Iraqi National Police in the area I was in back in 07. As a anecdotal note, when we asked locals(mostly Militia Fighters) about what AK's they preferred, a lot of them preferred the Iraqi made AK's, but would usually take a Chinese AK if an Iraqi one wasn't available. They Hated the Iranian made ones as they had a tendency to blow up due to extremely poor QC(they didn't bother with headspacing the barrels for the ones sent to Iraq).
ua-cam.com/video/TdUZvGYLnD0/v-deo.html
كلام صحيح
It looks like a custom skin you'd unlock if you get 100 headshot kills with a Dragunov
now it look like something for 15 bucks with a outfit and a cool name
I'm impressed that the disassembly requires no tools; that is a huge logistical advantage.
Maybe that's why post WWII guns that need tools for disassembly are quite rare?
That's a Russian thing
@@samsonsoturian6013 remind me what's the current price for vintage Mosin disassembly toolkit?
@@samsonsoturian6013Is it?
@@Tunkkis The Soviets especially. Since they were Communists every part in the supply chain was a headache for managers as there were no open markets. Also, Russia is full of remote places where replacement parts may take ages to arrive. That's why Ian had to point out the sniper rifle was unusual that it had no shared parts with standard AKs.
The palm and saber is a surprisingly cute detail for Saddam's Iraq
In the arab world the palm tree is a symbol of generosity while the saber is a symbol of power.
@@silversniper22the irony of that being on a long range rifle is not lost on me.
the magazine is cool and different
@@VfaDD scimitars are from turkey and shamshirs are persian, the arabian sword is neither one of them, it’s called saif and it’s actually a hybrid between different types of blades.
Almost as if they didn't understand the functionality of the ribbing.
My company commander was killed in Iraq in December 2004 in Sadr City. We thought it was by someone using a Dragunov or PSL but it may have been by someone using this copy I never knew existed.
God bless him for his sacrifice.
And thank you for your service.
@@Cincy32hes in hell
Thank you for your service Dragunov.
مدينة الصدر😅
Thank you for your service al kadeshia .
Combine this rifle with the Fedayeen helmet for peak aesthetics.
"i find your lack of 7.62x54r disturbing"
Always liked the palm design in the magazines.
It's always fascinating to dive into the stories behind unique and rare firearms like this one. I love how the firearms world is full of surprises and hidden gems waiting to be discovered.
10:10 the original dragunov muzzle device is not threaded. The flash hider and the front sight post are a solitary piece sleeved over the muzzle and pinned in place by two pins.
I saw one of these in Iraq! An adjacent EOD detachment had one in their training/ready room, and it was a popular destination for escort & QRF teams in the brigade. They had one of everything on display around the room (and outside); from mines, mortars, and IEDs to gold-plated rifles, briefcase guns, jezails & swords; it was like a Noah's Ark of weaponry. To this day I wonder what happened with it, especially the rare & exceptional stuff.
I know it was probably thrown into the burnt-pit, left in a pile for the Iraqis to deal with, or ended up in a general's footlocker; but I like to hope at least some of it got stashed in a huge Raiders of the Lost Ark-sized arms-room, so one day in the future it might be available for my descendants to buy/obtain/scavenge.
For his contributions & funding the construction of a Catholic Chaldean church in the city of Detroit, Saddam Hussein was awarded the "Key to the City" by Mayor Coleman Young in 1980
OIF Vet here, loved the crazy sniper/marksman weapons the Iraqis made (when they weren't being aimed at me lol). I was part of 4ID in Baghdad, and we captured a gold plated one that's now at home in the 4ID museum near the front gate at Ft. Carson. Most Iraqi units we worked with carried PSL's and maybe now and again a true Russian Drag.
NGL, using the reinforcing ribs for some hot branding is pretty sick.
Interestingly, Mikhail Timofeyevich once made the SVK - Sniper Rifle Kalashnikov, though it lost in accuracy trials to the SVD, so it was never adopted. That too was a short-stroke semi-auto only rifle, though it was also made to accept clips, an odd addition for a rifle that's gonna have a scope on it at all times. Possibly a remnant of Mikhail's earliest work on a self-loading carabine in 1944, which was likely influenced by the M1 Garand.
So Dragunov, Simonov, and Timofeyevich. The three names that threw their hats into the semi auto sniper trials. Thanks for sharing, friend!
@@Anino_Makata Sorry for the confusion, Timofeyevich is the patronymic of Mikhail Kalashnikov. In Russian, using someone's name+patronymic is a sign of respect.
@@DawidKov Ah, I understand. So its Dragunov, Simonov, and Kalashnikov.
Of the many hundreds of videos of yours that I have watched, this is now one of my favorites! As always I appreciate both the technical info. and the story...
I am an artist so I really enjoyed the artwork on the magazine. I don't remember seeing this on any other magazine so that makes this one really special.
I’ll have check my pictures from Iraq. I got paired up with an Iraqi sniper a few missions providing overwatch. He carried a SVD and I carried a M14. I saw a lot of Iraqi/Yugo style Aks. Never thought to look at their SVDs.
It's not exactly an AK bolt, it seems to have a modified third lug in the bottom of the bolt so that it also works as a locking lug instead of just feeding ammo.
Russia: You want to buy Dragunov rifles?
Saddam: We have Dragunov at home.
am i the only one that would love to see an antiques roadshow type show but instead its about guns and its hosted by Ian with Othias and Mae of C&Rsenal
So let me get this straight. You build a "training only rifle" but then make it so that the gun can accept same magazines and live rounds....
Yep, they make great booby traps when captured by enemies who don't read the language.
Oh right. I didn't think of that... Oops.
I was thinking the exact same thing, why in the hell would they make it actually functional? At least omit the firing pin or something.
@@TheBulap
Clip the firing pin just enough to keep from firing a cartridge.
@@calvingreene90 Then it wouldn't fire blanks
A small correction. The real dragunov muzzle device is not threaded 10:20. Also curious if some small components could interchange. The gas plug, trigger group, recoil assembly all look very close to SVD spec. Curious if you know anyone who has tried to test fit?
came here to say this. Surprised ian messed that up, maybe he was confusing with the PSL?
فخر التصنيع العسكري العراقي . عندما كان العراق عراق.
ان شاء الله يرجع بحيلة.
انشالله يرجع احسن من قبل
ما يرجع لان القوى العظمى ما تسمح حاليا
4:44 Those palm tree and saber reinforcing ribs in the magazine look epic!
This rifle was made by Iraq despite the suffocating international blockade imposed on Iraq in the 1990s. It was named after the Qadisiyah rifle, after the Battle of Qadisiyah, which took place between the Muslim Arabs and the Magi Persians 1500 years ago, in which the Muslim Arabs won.
مجوس
In addition to the advantages (e.g. international sales, local prestige/status) mentioned, I imagine hand-engraving in Arabic is also mechanically more difficult than in English, which may be why only the safe/semi markings are hand-engraved in Arabic and the rest are in English.
The transliteration of al-Qadisiyyah (Al Kadesih) depends on where the word is found in a sentence.
what a beauty. thank you for covering this one
I'm impressed at the level of reverse engineering that went into this
We need more of those iraqi arms videos 🙏🔥
Greetings to you and your followers from Iraq, your channel is amazing❤
I remember seeing an article in Shotgun News about this rifle in like 2005, even as a kid I thought the palm tree on the mag was neat.
Honestly don't know about the red plastic cap, but from a lifetime in engineering is it possibly there to protect the plywood, prevent it from delaminating?
Seems a reasonable assumption. A couple of dings on the front corner of the grip and you'd get horrible jagged edges.
That mag though😮
What a beautiful and mildly cursed gun. Huge fan of the decorative design of the magazine ribs.
This is very well preserved, very cool pice of history
Looking at the build quality, this thing definitely did not come out of a Yugoslavian factory...
nope, Iraqi factory. Quality is gonna be iffy, same with Iraqi Tariq pistols etc
Doesn’t he mention it’s Yugoslav tooling and obviously he shows the “made in Iraq” marking?🤷♂️
Therefore EVERYONE KNOWS it’s not made in Yugoslavia.😒👍🥃
@@BillMcGirr he did mention there is some debate where they were manufactured, despite the markings.
@@robertsmith4681
Um… I highly doubt that they were made in Yugoslavia and then the Yugoslavians decided…
“Hey… let’s stamp made in Iraq on them for sh!ts and giggles.
Nobody will ever figure it out.”
This isn’t how any of this works.😉👍🥃
Perhaps the secret is buried with the weapons of mass destruction?🤷♂️
@@robertsmith4681 wasn't that about the scope though?
Been waiting on this for a very long time.
The OG wooden furniture SVD is truly a work of art.. The OG wooden furniture SVD is truly a work of art..
Oh, look! Another reason I'm pissed we weren't allowed to bring back trophies.
You were (or at least it wasn’t enforced) when the war first kicked off. Known a few guys who brought back souvenirs from Saddam’s palace. The ban on war trophies is lame
@@clownworld4655 I'm specifically referring to firearms. I've got souvenirs. Captured weapons would have been more relevant, both personally and historically.
@@josephhatcher9903 That pisses me off actually, you put your life on the line and couldn't bring back a trophy. Must've cut into the CIA's bottom line...
Anyone remember that small batch of real Russian Dragunovs out of Iraq sold by the Army in early 2000s? They were auctioned on Guns America website and I remember the prices well over $10,000 and up to $20,000 or more. Always wondered how that happened, I can find nothing about it nowdays but know a guy who wound up with one of those guns and a few people here and there on the internet that remember it.
Man I love these videos
I have one of those scopes that I brought back home after I took it from someone using a Tabuk against me. Super interesting to see the same engravings on the Al Kadesiah it was designed for.
Those closed-tine flash hiders are available with the standard Ak muzzle threads, in case anyone was wondering. And yes, they do ring.
I actually think the scope is actually made in Iraq. The quality of the calligraphy of "Made in Iraq" is higher than any other engraved text on the rifle.
That seems to be evidence that it was not made in Iraq to me.
Could also be a mish-mash. If Iraq had both local production and shipments from Zastava, it's possible that some Yugoslav made scopes got stripped for parts or some Iraqi parts were used to repair Yugo scopes.
@@blshouse Why would Zastava have Arabic calligraphers on staff for Engravings?
@@burningphoneix They would have the resources and the organizational pride to have a stamp or roll professionally made. That doesn't appear to be hand engraved calligraphy to me.
Very interesting to finally see someone take a good look at one of these. They seem to have been fairly common in Iraq since a lot of coalition troops talked about finding them (as this comments section is already demonstrating), but this is the first time I've seen someone do a dedicated close-up on one.
ua-cam.com/video/TdUZvGYLnD0/v-deo.html
when i watched this video, an engineer working in al Qadisiya establishment watched it with me. The markings were made by hand using marking stamp nails. many problems associating the production were introduced, especially after the 1991 blockade. also, production during the Iraqi - Iranian war was critical the needs were huge cannot cope with Iraqi industry that's why you see very wide types spread through Iraq. Also, enormous amounts of weaponry lost due to 1991 war most are the good weapons and also during the 1991 uprising.
As an Iraqi. I'm impressed how this thing looked like. Just imagine its look if it was all painted in a black or same color as the center.
Nice. Love the stock wild as. Cheers from north qld.
Interesting piece of histiory. Thank you and the viewer for bringing it to us
Now we need to see how it performs at the range
Great video and very informative!!
If the battle is the one I'm familiar with, I think the more common anglicization is Al-Qadisiyyah? Either way, amazing video as usual.
It appears to be, I'm guessing different anglicizations. People probably go with the one written on the gun when referring to the gun.
I like that Saddam made Call Of Duty prestige skins IRL
I love this rifle I would love to have one. I've always liked dragonovs anyway and the palm tree saber magazines are awesome..
Really neat piece. It would be interesting to see how well it shoots. Should be better than a PSL if they did a halfway respectable job
I was expecting Miles Vining to walk in any time 😂
It would appear that you should take apart captured weapons before test firing them unless you have seen them fired.
I don't think it would be wise to ever fire anything that hasn't been inspected first.
@@alun7006
Well, if the guy was shooting it until you shot him and then you run out of ammunition for your own gun...
@@calvingreene90 fair point. But that's a rather niche scenario.
This gun literally looks like a modded video game weapon where the texture hasn't been mapped correctly.
Thank you for your videos.
This truly is a forgotten weapon
A video of the "Baghdad Rifle" would be interesting! If you find one
Thanks Ian. Interesting rifle.
Never liked shooting original dragunov that we had in finnish army years ago. The stock is just too light to absorb the recoil, but it is accurate. Have to tell you that..
Reminds me of the gun in the video game *"Escape From Tarkov"* called the *"VPO 215"* or AKA the *"Hunter"* that shoots .308 or 7.62x51mm ammunition with the same type of grip on the back of this weapon.
Loved this vid. Super cool rifle.
The ribs on the magazine are interesting.
I have wanted one of these
hmmm.. can someone explain me what is the deal with iron wire near striker hamer?
If nothing else, someone should make some more "palm tree and saber" style Dragunov magazines
as Iraqi I’m telling you your information is so accurate.
@@Elatenl qualifies ??!! I already said I’m from Iraq and here in Iraq we can use weapons with no problem and I know everything he said because it’s a weapon from my country.
@@Elatenl I said his information is so accurate I’m not an expert and how I said because I know the information he said.
Salute from iraq🙋♂️
Unironically beautiful rifle
It looks like it was engraved with a nail. By someone who wasn't trying to get promoted.
Hi Ian. Very interesting. Thank you very much. Where have you got this ?
That scope emblem looks like the East German DDR hammer and compass emblem.
Ian posts ... I like. It's a very simple formula. 👍🏻
Sounds like we have Robo-Ian this episode
The SKS has a similar out-of-battery safety mechanism.
I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s in Baghdad, pretty much everyone had Tariq pistol which was a Barretta clone manufactured in Al Qadisyah factory too. It had an engraving the word Tariq in arabic and slapping an emblem of Tariq Bin Ziyad on it.
Out of interest, anyone know how easy it is to stamp Arabic markings, like a simple “fire” and “safe” may be easy, but how easy is it to stamp a complete sentence? Do capital Latin characters with generally sharp lines or at least fairly gentle curves, just tend to lend themself to east stamping?
It's VERY similar to a MOLOT vepr in 54r or a PSL if someone built it in their garage with an angle grinder and a hacksaw. Those tooling marks are... a bit rough.
Thanks for sharing
Such a beautiful gun
curious as to what kind of accuracy could be expected from that, as its just a big ak bolt. Not sure how far they went to accurize it
Cool history with the golden plated examples and so on.
I do not understand how the training rifles were intended to be used?
Only with blanks perhaps?
Seems strange to go through all the trouble of making rifles like these that doesn't work.
Especially when you have so few of them to begin with.
Also I want to say that it is quite impressive how they managed to make their own design and make it so they could take advantage of the production equipment that they already had.
Clever.
Sees elongated holes in handguard: Brain "is that M-Lok?"
Please bring this to the range somehow this gun is so sick!!
I would love to have one of those oneday !
So cool! Thanks ian!🤘🇨🇦
I have literally just seen a golden replica of the Dragunov, seized as a trophy from Sadam Hussein's palace. Duxford museum.