To paraphrase: "Structural G-force limits are for preserving the long-term operation of the airframe. If long-term operation is no longer anticipated, there are no structural G-force limits!"
@@giuliodondi That makes sense - I was a bit confused as to why you fired the OMS even though you were already high on energy, but this clears it up. Thank you for your content!
@@OwenHuang-w1u No, I did it for balancing the reentry Centre of Gravity as it's very far aft with full OMS. IRL they would do a non-propulsive OMS dump by firing all RCS jets at once, that's not possible in KSP
@@giuliodondi would it be possible to use those bleed-off valves in KSP to simulate a dump? I know they actually provide an appreciable amount of thrust, but I’ve used them before for dumping fuel and as long as you have two firing simultaneously opposite each other, the thrust cancels out. BTW, am a huge fan of your videos, your return to base abort and trans-Atlantic abort videos are two of my favourite KSP vids. Very well done.
Of course my brain knows that these aborts happen "only" in KSP, but they (and especially this one) are absolute nail biters. That bank to 120° at those AOAs and Gs is crazy. Thank you so much for your videos, they are excellent content on both the Shuttle and KSP.
Where do you get the information on all these interesting abort modes? I watched a video by eager Space on abort modes and even with that video I never even heard of this one.
As in stuck at around 67% thrust post-max q? That does sound interesting. I'd guess it'd probably result in TAL, but it might result in RTLS depending on other system failures. Good idea!
This would be nice, I don’t think it would require an abort although it’d be cool to see 1-Engine-Out Droop Guidance, since that revolves around the loss of one engine with another stuck at 67%
honestly really cool to see a lot of these abort scenarios, as desperate as they may have been, still be proven to be possible. Keep up the awesome work
Well would you take a Gander at that! Seriously though, your shuttle content has been awesome so far! Do you have any plans to expand the KoS Script to deal with upgraded/alternate shuttle types like Hammerhead and Shuttle-C? Also, cant wait to see what this looks like with the new re-entry visual mod!
I love your shuttle videos. i can never decide if i hate or love the shuttle, but your videos seem to be making me lean finally in the direction of love . The complexity and capability of the shuttle (at the cost of safety and cost, yes), especially with those big wings, means there are so many different interesting abort modes to study and fly. i hope to see more! Were you flying purely manually, managing to hold stable AOA during the roll-reversals, by combining all 3 axis correctly? or were you using mechjeb or other to hold AOA for you and telling it to roll to particular angles?
it's not fully manual, the CSS mode of the autopilot still holds the shuttle stable, and the stick input is used to change the target angle of attack and bank (yaw is always kept at zero).
CSS is Fly-by-wire, it's as manual as it gets in the Space Shuttle. Without it you would lose coordination of roll/yaw and, in very short order, enter a flat spin when flying at high angle of attack My kOS program simulates it, save for the fact that all axes are integrated, as opposed to the real Shuttle where you could split pitch and roll/yaw
Very interesting video. Given the extreme maneuvering required, I’m curious to know if the orbiter’s lift-to-drag characteristics would allow a continuous left turn to CFB Goose Bay (Labrador)…
Goose Bay was probably intended for 57° inclination missions but looks quite doable to me even in this scenario, probably would still require manual flying at least through the first pullout. I might try this out just for the fun of it
Can you make a video of Columbia flying to the ISS. Columbia was the only orbiter that never had orbital exterior photography taken. There was a ground based camera (or maybe an airborne one) that took photos of Columbia on Orbit during STS-107. There were also spy satellite images taken during STS-1, although those remain classified and even the crew were unaware of why they re-oriented her. Challenger had images taken by a free flying satellite and by Bruce McCandless. And of course Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour visited Mir and ISS, so there are a plethora of images of them. But no co-orbital pictures of Columbia. If only she had survived 107, 118 would’ve had some taken.
Yeah, we will almost certainly never know the answer to this. Certainly no official documentation will even attempt to describe the chances of success because... What's the alternative, just wait to die? That being said, I suspect that this is something that the astronauts tried in the simulator and MCC couldn't prove was _impossible_, so it was added to the book as an option. It's only applicable in a _very_ narrow set of circumstances (simultaneous failure of 3 engines during a ~10 second window on a very specific trajectory) that MCC didn't worry too much about "is this actually survivable." Had the situation actually occurred in real life, I suspect that MCC would have called for a standard contingency 3EO TAL abort with an expected bailout short of the European shoreline.
No, this was never used in real life. Columbia broke up on a normal reentry after a highly successful 2-week orbital mission, not on a launch abort. The only abort mode ever used in the history of the program was Abort-To-Orbit on STS-51F in 1985.
@OwenHuang-w1u yes i know about it, but my comment not reffered into columbia tragedy. its for abort mode on this video since you bring it out, my condolence for astronaut on sts-107
To paraphrase: "Structural G-force limits are for preserving the long-term operation of the airframe. If long-term operation is no longer anticipated, there are no structural G-force limits!"
According to the contingency workbook, at 4.2Gs you can expect the OMS pods to come off if they're 3/4 full or more
@@giuliodondi That makes sense - I was a bit confused as to why you fired the OMS even though you were already high on energy, but this clears it up. Thank you for your content!
@@OwenHuang-w1u No, I did it for balancing the reentry Centre of Gravity as it's very far aft with full OMS.
IRL they would do a non-propulsive OMS dump by firing all RCS jets at once, that's not possible in KSP
@@giuliodondi that also makes sense
@@giuliodondi would it be possible to use those bleed-off valves in KSP to simulate a dump? I know they actually provide an appreciable amount of thrust, but I’ve used them before for dumping fuel and as long as you have two firing simultaneously opposite each other, the thrust cancels out. BTW, am a huge fan of your videos, your return to base abort and trans-Atlantic abort videos are two of my favourite KSP vids. Very well done.
I can't imagine the sheer terror one would experience as a mission specialist sitting in the mid-deck during an abort procedure like this
PLEASE keep making these abort videos. I love the usage of Columbia’s STS-118 flight.
Of course my brain knows that these aborts happen "only" in KSP, but they (and especially this one) are absolute nail biters. That bank to 120° at those AOAs and Gs is crazy.
Thank you so much for your videos, they are excellent content on both the Shuttle and KSP.
This was by far the most nerve racking abort so far. Very well done!
Where do you get the information on all these interesting abort modes? I watched a video by eager Space on abort modes and even with that video I never even heard of this one.
The lovely 600-page Ascent/Aborts flight Procedures handbook
www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Shuttle/Crew%20Training/Flight%20Procedures%20Ascent-Aborts.pdf
Impeccable music selection.
Oh boy my favorite kind of horror back with another episode!
Oh WOW, and I thought the blue abort was extreme :o
Been greatly enjoying this series, I hope it will continue! Keep up the great work.
love these videos so much never heard of the majority of the abort modes you've covered, impressive that its in kos as well
oh manually flown even cooler
Great video, love the music choice!
Amazing work. Perhaps one (or more) engines "stuck in the thrust bucket" would be an interesting abort to implement/show?
As in stuck at around 67% thrust post-max q? That does sound interesting. I'd guess it'd probably result in TAL, but it might result in RTLS depending on other system failures. Good idea!
This would be nice, I don’t think it would require an abort although it’d be cool to see 1-Engine-Out Droop Guidance, since that revolves around the loss of one engine with another stuck at 67%
Id imagine in this scenario they would manually shut it down and perform a TAL/ATO abort.
Depends if the scenario is peculiar enough to warrant all the research and coding work, I'll see
@@Tmccreight25Gaming Intact TAL, ATO and even RTLS can be declared without shutting down any engines
Very nice edit
honestly really cool to see a lot of these abort scenarios, as desperate as they may have been, still be proven to be possible. Keep up the awesome work
Goated as always
Well would you take a Gander at that! Seriously though, your shuttle content has been awesome so far! Do you have any plans to expand the KoS Script to deal with upgraded/alternate shuttle types like Hammerhead and Shuttle-C?
Also, cant wait to see what this looks like with the new re-entry visual mod!
I love your shuttle videos. i can never decide if i hate or love the shuttle, but your videos seem to be making me lean finally in the direction of love . The complexity and capability of the shuttle (at the cost of safety and cost, yes), especially with those big wings, means there are so many different interesting abort modes to study and fly. i hope to see more!
Were you flying purely manually, managing to hold stable AOA during the roll-reversals, by combining all 3 axis correctly? or were you using mechjeb or other to hold AOA for you and telling it to roll to particular angles?
it's not fully manual, the CSS mode of the autopilot still holds the shuttle stable, and the stick input is used to change the target angle of attack and bank (yaw is always kept at zero).
CSS is Fly-by-wire, it's as manual as it gets in the Space Shuttle. Without it you would lose coordination of roll/yaw and, in very short order, enter a flat spin when flying at high angle of attack
My kOS program simulates it, save for the fact that all axes are integrated, as opposed to the real Shuttle where you could split pitch and roll/yaw
@@giuliodondi ahh very interesting, thanks for the details, your software is super cool!
If you play it in double speed, the music sound really cool as well as the video
Geez, this timeline is really down on their luck
Please do a west coast launch with an abort to Easter Island. That would be cr-a-zy! 😎
Very interesting video. Given the extreme maneuvering required, I’m curious to know if the orbiter’s lift-to-drag characteristics would allow a continuous left turn to CFB Goose Bay (Labrador)…
Goose Bay was probably intended for 57° inclination missions but looks quite doable to me even in this scenario, probably would still require manual flying at least through the first pullout.
I might try this out just for the fun of it
Can you make a video of Columbia flying to the ISS. Columbia was the only orbiter that never had orbital exterior photography taken. There was a ground based camera (or maybe an airborne one) that took photos of Columbia on Orbit during STS-107. There were also spy satellite images taken during STS-1, although those remain classified and even the crew were unaware of why they re-oriented her. Challenger had images taken by a free flying satellite and by Bruce McCandless. And of course Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour visited Mir and ISS, so there are a plethora of images of them. But no co-orbital pictures of Columbia. If only she had survived 107, 118 would’ve had some taken.
Excellent work. Any chance of an abort to Easter Island from a Vandenburg launch (just like the book)?
working on it
legend
Your edits are better in better !
That was one spicy reentry. Good thing this never had to be used. Was there any information of the estimated chance of success on this mode?
If there is, I don't have it. Bear in mind that bailout would be a successful outcome for this scenario as well
Yeah, we will almost certainly never know the answer to this. Certainly no official documentation will even attempt to describe the chances of success because... What's the alternative, just wait to die?
That being said, I suspect that this is something that the astronauts tried in the simulator and MCC couldn't prove was _impossible_, so it was added to the book as an option. It's only applicable in a _very_ narrow set of circumstances (simultaneous failure of 3 engines during a ~10 second window on a very specific trajectory) that MCC didn't worry too much about "is this actually survivable."
Had the situation actually occurred in real life, I suspect that MCC would have called for a standard contingency 3EO TAL abort with an expected bailout short of the European shoreline.
whats the technical name of this abort mode in that document you linked elsewhere?
High energy TAL/High energy Gander
I always have trouble installing your fork of STS_Locations with RSS Reborn. How do you do the installation?
all issues on github, please
such an amazing vehicle, but really difficult to build and operate. I think NASA had reasons to close this programm…
please giulio i need you help, im triying to use you script but i cant can you help me?
all issues on GitHub. make sure you read the readmes carefully
Would a shuttle be able to fly after such heavy G stuff?
It's impossible to know for sure because the total load is a bit above the structural design limit
City light mod?
it's the city lights textures from EVO on top of RSS Reborn
insane abort mode, totally broke-up when applied in real life. great video
No, this was never used in real life. Columbia broke up on a normal reentry after a highly successful 2-week orbital mission, not on a launch abort. The only abort mode ever used in the history of the program was Abort-To-Orbit on STS-51F in 1985.
@OwenHuang-w1u
yes i know about it, but my comment not reffered into columbia tragedy. its for abort mode on this video
since you bring it out, my condolence for astronaut on sts-107
@@ibrahimdaffa8834 Sorry - I thought your reference to a real life shuttle break-up was to Columbia. What were you referring to?
@OwenHuang- i'm not reffered anything, I'm talked about abort modes in this video