Gibson Will Soon Be Irrelevant
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- My Final Thoughts on the Gibson SG and Gibson as a company.
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0:00 series summary
0:40 conclusion
0:53 Why SG
2:06 Ch.1: New Guitar Joy Phase
3:15 High fret access tangent
4:34 Ormsby Cameo
5:03 Neck, tuners, epiphone
5:28 Ch.2: Vintage frets
6:25 Ch.3: Gibson epiphone continuity
7:59 Ch.4: High Access Paradox
9:45 Ch.5: Vibrato Bridges
11:10 Ch. 6: Tone
11:33 Ch. 7: it’s not fun
12:45 Ch. 8: SG vs Other guitars
14:27 Ch. 9: The Price & Features Breakdown
16:10 The gig bags are awesome
16:30 Ch.10: Idiot “helps” gibson
19:50 Upset Gibson Fans
20:15 Who Cares About Gibson
21:00 Final Thoughts
I agree with your comments about Gibsons being overpriced. Back in 1990, I bought a brand new Gibson Les Paul Custom for $1750 (Canadian). Converted to 2024 dollars, that would be approximately $4880 CDN, or $3650 USD. The equivalent guitar in 2024 is listed at $4990 USD; that means that this guitar's price has outpaced inflation by 37%.
That's what I paid for my tribute
Yeah, ot outsourcing slave work can make things a bit pricy, totally valid point.
Tbh, you pay for the brand like everything else, but they weren't supposed to be "expensive" it was the price, inflation screw thing up along the years, but we are just getting a distorted perception because of how cheap the alternatives are, and Gobson can compete in any department, but not on price, they will keep being a brand of assured quality and solid performance, but you pay a fair price for the prestige and comparing that to china and cheap labor with poor conditions that are in fact or dangerously close to slavery, kinda says about how much we are screwed economically to turn a blind eye for that just for the price tag.
And even tho some companies can produce locally a product of same quality for cheaper, they don't do as much for the music industry and benefit of outsourcing production in some scale. A Gibson is a Gibson and they deserve the prestige they got. I think we should put some light on that
One thing.. You compared your original purchase price to current advertised price or. "MAP" pricing.
I got the exact same SG. I've been playing it for two 1/2 months and I really love mine. I've kept it completely stock and I've had no problems with it. Beauty is in the hands of the beholder I guess.
No, I also think it’s a good guitar. I said on many occasions 🤷🏾.
Sure they are good guitars, but Tokai makes great ones at a much lower cost. There's no reason to get a Gibson other than the name. If you want guitar built like a Gibson, Tokai makes objectively superior options. If you want modern tech or craftsmanship, then you have PRS, Ibanez, etc.
@@andrefludd Hi, is there any other modern make out there like the core PRS hollow body piezo acoustic not the ES version that maybe a bit cheaper to buy?
I feel this is kind of misunderstanding where Gibson and Fender are as brands in the current ecosystem of guitar manufacturers. Both are defined by their history, and would not really have buyers if they go too much off the plot - see f.e. the automated tuners that Gibson tried years ago, and Fender owning Charvel which limits how far they modernise their own guitars. For a lot of players, the electric guitar's 50/60s aesthetic is very much still a part of their appeal, rather than a lot of newer designs that try to update the format but don't really make much of a dent all in all. Brands are bound by themselves, but at least Fender has managed to create some kind of breathing room with various limited runs and Paranormal series etc. Fenders also being a lot easier to mod with interchangeable parts makes random variations part of the aesthetic to start with...
Interesting enough, back in mid 2000 when I knew barely anything about guitars, my dream was to buy a Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty but couldn't afford it. Therefore I went with a black Godin LGXT. I was obsessed with it having an ebony fretboard and it being a single cut, which the Godin has/is. Well, what I didn't realize is that it has a 25 1/2" scale length. When you split the coils, it sounds like a strat and I love the sound! Still have the guitar today, cheers!
Gibson will always stay relevant for the legacy branding. People love Les Pauls, despite their flaws and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. They should have been phased out a long time ago, but people still love them and pay big money for them. Even for me….I’m a modern player with a bunch of super nice USA modern instruments, but my black beauty Les Paul custom has some magic to the sound that I could never see myself letting go of.
Same brother, my Les Paul Custom just has the sauce in how it sounds.
@@Eliphas_Elric My Gretsch hollowbody is not particularly comfortable, but something magical happens in the sound that results from the conjunction of my fingers and the strings that a modern style instrument just can't deliver
I love Les Pauls, but I don't have to pay what Gibson charges for em.
@@jasondorsey7110 Hear hear
@@DJBuglip I only buy used. I got my LP custom for $2500.
I'd love to see you give Fender this same treatment to review an instrument of theirs, get super nitty gritty detailed, and give an overall critique of the product and company. IMO, they're much much better about offering modern offerings, and they're starting to experiment with introducing new body styles like the Meteora. They're still behind the ball on design though I think
I thought about it and I may do it in the future. The thing is, I already know I like Fender so the journey isn't as interesting. My first 2 electric guitars were a Squier and a Mexican strat. I pick them up in stores and enjoy them all the time. So yea, I'd have to think of a good spin to make it honest but still exciting.
@@andrefludd you could try something like a jaguar/mustang/jazzmaster for something different
@@rejectedcovers8790 yep that’s an idea for sure.
I really wish Fender would move to a sleek contoured heel on all of their guitars, similar to the way Ibanez does their bolt-on heels. I will never buy a guitar with that 1950's big block style heel.
@@andrefludd can't wait for the Kaizen review...sorry I'm not on Patreon. I'm broke..
9:05 with my Gibson Explorer the upper fret playability is unmatched. I feel very comfortable playing up there since I was able to get my action so low
So will you punt the SG? At 13:41 on the Gold PRS SE DGT was that a knee rest? What is that?
I prefer the lower vintage frets because thats what I learned on. Now I find I need to feel the fretboard so i can gauge how much pressure to apply. I tend to squeeze the strings out of tune with tall frets
Thanks for sharing!
Yeah man. I used to think Jumbo frets were the best. But now I realise this problem of over-pressing.
@@endezeichengrimm modern guitars are played with so much distortion you can't hear that...
@@jgunther3398 That's a false assumption.
If you're using that much distortion....just give up playing. haha
.
And yeah.... You should still hear the pitch, even with a lot of distortion....
@@jgunther3398 if you cant hear something is out of tune because of distortion you need to clean your ears
You describe the "to the left" feeling quite well that I've noticed and preferred as a strat player.
What is a vintage fret really? Mine is a 2019 Gibson SG Special, and it says medium jumbo frets.
Which tuners did you replace the stock ones with?
It's interesting you thought of those three ranges, because it's pretty much what fender has been doing for years. What they call the "Standard" is in perpetual change (with varying results depending on the year).
But for some reason, Gibson seems to be stuck in the past, but it's what their audience seems to love. Guitars like the Les Paul access never stay in their catalog for too long.
In Gibson's case, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Gibson sticks to their classic models and people bitch that they "don't move with the times". And if Gibson does anything new, people bitch at that as well.
@@ferox965 gibson doesnt have a good simple cheap version of their models... every time they try to do that they feel awuful, you took a tele and its equivalent, the lp JR and the JR feels like a toy guitar... or they took a LP custom and instead of simplify the model, they just took away all the fansy details, the fansy electronic, pots etc, and you have an ugly version of a LP thats sounds and feels cheap... and models that are simple in construction like the fling v or the firebird are expensive as fuck compared to similar models... at the end i can buy a tele for less than 800$ with amazing tone and sound, very reliable that doesnt feel cheap in your hands... look at this, if i wont the gibson quivalent of my tele, there is the LP special... its like the simplest less paul you can get, with p90s... for 1000$ and it looks nad feels cheep as fuck
Truly enjoyed watching this experiment as it unfolded. One of the biggest things I agree is the launching the multiple lines that we’ll never see. I LOVE the look of the LP, Flying V, and the Explorer. But I know feature wise and feels wise they’re not for me - I’ve tried several times but couldn’t justify the cool looks over the comfort. I would love a modern spec’d Gibson line, that would pull me in and I’m 30.
You’re in luck, they have a line called the modern collection.
@@joshderouin947 I need more than the “dad” guitars lol. Give me the V’s and Explorer’s!
I would say this. I came up through the 80s shred era. Most of my teenage peers were playing ibanez and various types of Frankenstrat type guitars. Then Grunge happened, and many of my peers in our 20 somethings started gravitating towards the whole vintage Gibson Fender thing. Personally, I never fell too far down the Gibson rabbit hole. I do see how it has staying power, though.
Fender seems to have done a much better job staying relevant, and in touch with players in the present.
Nirvana in the 90's, H.E.R. nowadays, for example.
Better sponsorships, and quality entry level instruments.
I still have a Squier Tele that's 30 years old. Nothing fancy, stays in tune, records well.
I bought that thing for $100.
Can't beat it. Went to play my Gibson Nighthawk last winter, it now has a broken headstock. Common problem, they told me. It was a $2,000 guitar when I bought it.
Sits out in the garage now.
So you basically telling that people buy guitar because of fashion. This is mainly true. That's why today's music is shit.
@@xyrius Except people have been playing Fender guitars for 60+ years and every modern pop act plays fender too. Even Taylor Swift plays Fender and Gibson. So, by your logic music has sucked for the last 60 years.
@@arunkarthikma3121 Back in the day people bought Fender and Gibson guitars because there weren't other optiions. But it doesnt mean that a Stratocaster or a Les Paul is a good guitar, both has serious flaws by design. Also recent years(20+) the quality of these brands decreased drasctically. That is true that a lot of (not all:D) pop "bands" use Fender and Gibson guitars. Are you familiar with the meaning of the word promotion? You don't understand my logic. I said that people buy guitars because of fashion. Not because of -for example- playability. That doesn't matter. Of course, it doesn't matter if you just play single chords(shitty music). In reality these pop "stars" playing is on the beginner level and I was very nice. If you can't play your instrument, you're not familiar with songwriting, arrangement, etc you can't make good music. It's impossible. These are not musicians, just performers.
+1 Taylor Swift's music REALLY sucks dude :D
And all those "cool modern" guitar companies no longer exist except for the few that Fender and Gibson have bought in recent times.
There will always be trendy stuff, but it seldomn lasts. Only fool would think Gibson or Fender would be irrelevant.
I bought a wildwood spec 57 LP Custom with a slim taper neck and it absolutely slays
Gibson is the Harley Davidson of Guitars.
Yeah I agree . Harley is overpriced and living off legacy from long ago. Much prefer a Honda that just runs and well at that.
I appreciate the intensive and deeply insightful observations
This is well beyond the typical reviews
In particular the comments regarding how the left hand naturally feels more comfortable from 9th to 15th fret, and this results in the illusory ‘feeling’ of great upper fret access, and the observation that the vintage style fret wire makes certain techniques a bit more difficult
This made me immediately think of why I LOVE my ugly shredder Charvel DK and use it for jazz- the real jumbo frets make fretting large chord spans significantly easier as less pressure is required to fret the note on jumbo frets- and with huge stretches you naturally have less ability to press hard
Great review
Charvel DKs are so underrated. I've never found a neck as comfortable as theirs
For some reason I never thought I liked SGs but now it's my go to. I was more an LP guy but when I came across a 2008 special walnut (faded?) I was hooked. It came with grover tuners and phat kat p90s that I didn't like, but I loved it so damn much I got some JBs in there and it's a no-frills, fast playing beast. It depends on your style of music but a floating trem or bigsby on a SG just looks wrong. But to each their own, and tastes really can change! I just bought my first offset: a Jazzmaster Classic Player, something I never thought I would like, and it's my #2 of my several guitars.
Y'know when I started my guitar journey, I thought I'd be happy with a Les Paul or a V since many of my fave players used them including Slash, Jimmy Page, Randy Rhoads, James Hetfield, and Billy Gibbons. But as time went on I found myself gravitating more and more to the Strats, & to a lesser extent the Tele, because they're more playable, had a stable trem (vintage 6-points, modern 2-points and full floating double lockers like Floyds and equivalents), had available medium jumbo or larger frets, balances well, and more often than not had my left hand parked around the 12th fret.
Thank you, Andre. That last point is a BIG revelation to my conscious mind! It took ye saying that for me to realize what I have been subconsciously doing automatically. This explains a big part of why I'm favouring certain guitars.
Of course, the guitars sometimes have issues with tuner stability, but that's not as much of an issue when the guitar is "only" 1500$US or less, or more often for me, about 500-800$US new or about half that used. I'm more willing to forgive such "minor" issues like that when one haven't spent all that much on the guitar in first place. BUT, those same issues are unforgivable when they're found on guitar costing north of $2000, 3000, or more.
I fully expect that if I'm paying premium dollars that I GET a premium guitar. I don't accept that vintage correctness BS. I DON'T buy a guitar just for the looks only. I buy them to play on the damn things. If they get issues built in because they're "vintage correct," then I'm NOT gonna waste my time buying them.
My #1 LP is not a Gibson or even a Epiphone, it's an Agile. My #1 Flying V isnt a Gibson or an Epiphone, its a vintage Cort Japan. My #1 Rhoads V is a Jackson (of course).
But guess what? My #1 traditional-styled Strat not a Fender nor a Squier. It's a vintage 1980s Stage CS-327. Sharing the second spot are several guitars: 2000 Fender Starcaster S1, 2003 Squier SE Stratocaster, 2004 Squier Lefty Standard Stratocaster; 1992 Fender Mexican Standard Stratocaster, 2008 Squier Standard Stratocaster, and 2010 Fender Japanese Standard Stratocaster. The first three are highly tweaked and modified. The last three are mostly stock with minor tweaks (so far). The Lefty is modified to play righty a là Hendrix.
My favorite SuperStrat spot OTOH is shared by three guitars. A 1986 Charvel Model 4, an 2013 Ibanez S420-BK and a 2000 Squier StageMaster HSH Deluxe. All three are highly modified to taste. And now I am working on a fourth, a 2012 Ibanez S570DXQM-TGB.
Strats aren't more playable than Gibsons , not even close .
I agree about the pickups. I had the same SG and loved the pickups, so much so I put the 490-T in my strat
I just purchased a Gibson Les Paul Standard 50s and I absolutely love it. It is the greatest guitar I have every owned....They've had their ups and downs but the 2019- LPs are amazing.
I plan on buying a 60s model LP next year, and you know why? I just bought SG Standard 61 and it's flawless. Well, I admit I have experience only with my Squier Tele, but as much as I looked for any flaws on the SG, I just couldn't find any. The workmanship is great, the setup out of the factory perfect and oh my I love the playability and neck. I feared that maybe I wouldn't like the neck since I played for a year on the Tele and got used to it, but from the first moment, I just fell in love with the SG neck and I like it even more than the Tele. And so I've more or less decided to buy a LP next year. It will take some time to save up the money, but I believe it will be worth it. I think we found some really great pieces my friend!
@@jenda445 I have a 2020 Gibson classic les paul and I can't lie it's got flaws and its overpriced as hell. There is a noticeable ridge between the neck and the binding at the first fret on the thumb side, which doesn't matter as a player but it's there. Was it dumb ordering a Gibson online? Probably, but this was peak Covid no stores were open. If it was a ESP or a PRS I wouldn't have had any QC problems almost guaranteed. Here's the thing though, I didn't want an ESP pointy Les Paul and I definitely didn't want a PRS. I wanted a Gibson and I got one, flaws and all. You may have been lucky but people are not lying about the quality issues, 2020 was considered to be a good year for QC and I can tell you mine is subpar, but I love it. PS it shipped with the wrong tailpiece and I haven't bothered to get the right one, by the time I noticed these issues I already loved the guitar so I didn't exchange it, but it's totally unacceptable for like $3000 US. These are all things you'd notice in store and simply ask for another one from storage until you find one with no issues, but I completely agree with all the Gibson haters who say this is unacceptable
I bought one last month.
A 2019 standard 50's tobacco burst.
My dream guitar.
It is all there, not fade away.
My bridge humbucker is less than I desire, so the heck with the "purists", I'm going to replace it.
I have/had lots of guitars I can grab anyone of them and play it - but I always grab the Les Paul by default. It feels right and it sounds great, especially for recording.
@@jenda445 Interesting thing, since I wrote that comment I purchased a Gibson SG '61 standard stoptail and love it. It is a fantastic guitar. The neck is awesome, the balance is great, the 6lb 5 oz weight really makes a difference as well. You can pretty much pick it up and play it anywhere very comfortably. Yessir, we have found some good pieces....this truly a great time to be a guitar player.
Excellent description of how the geometry of the neck affects playability in a specific range of “positions”. Thank you!
Awesome video. Maybe this model is just best with a fixed bridge. Thats strange how the epiphone is nearly the same guitar, but plays better. Is the neck wider, or the body heavier?
Vintage frets are great in my experience, however I only feel that way when the radius is at 7.25”. The vintage size wire on the round fretboard feels totally natural, and it solves all the issues regarding getting nice low action and being able to do big bends. Paul Reed Smith discussed this when they were designing the silver sky, which has a round board yet plays like any other great electric.
i totally agree . 7.25 necks are all ive ever played and always feel the best to me. ive always had strats. anything else needs time before i can get used to it. i did play a modern strat with a compound radius and that actually felt great to my surprise . gibson les pauls take alot of getting used to but i do like the sounds you can get but for me a strat can do anything from metal to jazz so why bother with anything else. saying that i found an '82 ibanez ar 30 which is like a les paul tv double cut and once i got used to the gibson scale neck ive fallen in love with it! it sounds great all the les paul sounds plus some sounds between a strat and a tele. so i guess its just a matter of being used to a guitar
I have vintage frets on my LP with very low action and big bends are easier than basically any other guitar I own.
Gibsons really benefit from setting them up slinky. 9s and Eb slinky. You might get a small amount of buzzing acoustically, but it'll play amazing when you get used to it.
How does vintage size fretwire solve the issues you mentioned? I'm not sure how they are related to the fret size
@@shubniggurath6464 When I play necks with round boards, the smaller fret wire allows for lower, more consistent string height across the strings. This makes the strings feel slinkier, and because the fret wire isn’t tall the strings do not “choke out” when bending a whole step up or higher. Honestly, it’s all setup. Hendrix, Gilmore, and Beck never had problems bending strings back in the 60s and 70s.
I bought a 2016 sg standard for 1400 . I love it . The frets are big the neck is round and it sounds and plays great. But I had to weed through many different models of sg before I found the right one for me . I enjoy your analytical take on reviews .
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed commentary Andre. It's sad. When I was a kid, Gibson was THE guitar to own. It was the guitar of legend. Me and all my guitar playing friends wanted a Gibby, the Les Paul specifically. Back then, at least in my mind, Gibson was still very much the company of Les Paul. The ol man was still alive then. And I can't help but think that his spirit was a gentle, but steady guiding influence on his signature line in particular, and the entire stable of models at Gibson in general. (Probably untrue, but that's how I felt.) It was probably more about the generation that built Gibson at that time with Ted McCarty at the helm. Who knows? Nostalgia is funny like that. Anyway, that was a long time ago. It's just NOT your daddy's Gibson anymore, unfortunately. This should not be. I've had many vintage Gibsons in my workshop over the years, and still more modern day Gibbys. What is strange is how nearly every vintage Gibson that's graced my workbench has solid bones. The geometry of these guitars is on point. I don't see neck issues in the majority of these old models. They have aged very well. Once they're set up properly, they play and sound amazing. Conversely, the modern builds tend to be the opposite. They all seem to suffer from one malady or another. But the thing I see most often is neck sag...so much so that these days I associate this problem with Gibson almost exclusively. If the guitars in question were student models, I couldn't say much. However, in this case I'm talking about expensive models ($1500 and up). In that price range, you should not see QC issues of this magnitude. The design of the guitar is a separate thing imo, which we can all quibble about. You either love it or hate it. I do agree that Gibson would benefit from a modern line that incorporates everything we've learned up till now about engineering the beast. But they've got to get their house in order first and start listening to both their consumers and their dealers. All that said, I applaud you for sticking your neck out to express your opinion on your Gibson experience. That takes guts, because despite Gibson's issues (poor quality, inflated pricing, bad PR), it is still, for many, a religion.
I think the neck issues you're seeing are likely due to them using the same wood types for construction that they always have, but the super old, super dry, super stable stock being long since depleted. They haven't adapted like other manufacturers by changing timbers, or using modern heat stabilized variations of their typical woods of choice. All in the name of matching a vintage aesthetic at the price of a less functional instrument.
Loving this series, would love for you to review some of the Cort's modern line guitars like the Cort kx500, anyway good work man
I feel like Gibson and Rickenbacker are an interesting contrast. Both are very expensive and very high quality. The only difference being that you can get a quality SG, Les Paul, or any other Gibson from many other companies. Whereas you can look up and down the world trying to find something that sounds like a Rickenbacker and not be able to find one. Rickenbacker is not for everybody but is completely unique unlike Gibson.
Thanks for all the time and effort with this long term experiment!
With all the time and money they are spending on letting their signature artists drive the fun and innovation, it would be nice to see more of those features make their way down into their regular lineups instead of just making the jump to the Epiphone signature version (nothing against Epiphone). With that said, the modern models don't get enough credit. Maybe the marketing is so successful that people are gravitating toward the vintage models and not exploring beyond that because that's what you're "supposed" to do.
What are the working conditions in the factories outside of the US?
Mostly just fine. The Epiphone factory in China has good working conditions and fair wages. There are other and smaller Asian factories that are horrendous, though. And the factories in Europe are superb.
I have an SG Standard 2005. I bought that FRX vibrato from StewMac. I live in the UK btw. I had to return it as it wasn't compatible. The reason being the rod underneath was touching the pick guard with an unplayably high action. If the FRX on Tribute SG in the video was retro-fitted by Gibson, was the pick guard specially modified (ie cut away) to allow the action to be lowered?
I watched Floyd Rose's video at the time, but he bizarrely didn't show the guitars' action after set up. (same guitar as mine - big pick guard.)
My biggest gripe is the price and their use of plain dot inlays and vintage tuners. I would love there to be a solid 24 fret sg with ebony board full size pick guard, binding, covered pickups, locking tuners, string butler, buffalo horn nut, headstock volute, and a tp6 tail piece
Problem is their boomer clientele would hate it.
That’s a legit great idea
Gibson has made 24 fret SG’s
i agree if they brought the price down ill give u a example you can buy a fender its a MIM fender but its still a fender not a epiphone or a squire for a good price i got a fender player strat for 1100 brand new if i wanted a gibson brand les paul for around that price it would have to be epiphone ( which im okay with cause they really stepped theyre game up in alot of guitars ) but they should have a more budget gibson lineup where the quality is still amazing but not like a made in america strat for example, and for the love of god gibson use trapezoid inlays on more guitars without people spending 1000$+ they dont have to be mother of pearl... acrylic / plastic would be fine lol
This is the SG "Special", which is more on the plain side of the SG spectrum.
I just bought my first real Gibson Les Paul. A transparent ebony trad pro v used from GC for 2100 bucks. I love it. It resonates like an acoustic guitar. The tone options with the hp-4 is pretty wide. Almost strat tones.
Gibson has done all that with Les Pauls, I had a Studio Lite, just as you described. Very few people bought it. You can find them used today for around $700. They are really light, had really hot pickups and you could shred on them. I played one for years.Thay had made Les Pauls with Floyd Roses, Kaylers, every tree out there at some point. I have a Les Paul Std that is chambered and not heavy at all, sounds incredible but still has the big headstock and doesn't stay in tune as good as some other guitars. But it has compound radius fretboard and burst bucker pickups and plays and sounds better than any other guitar I have. I got it used so I didn't pay a fortune too.
I was a Gibson player for years. One of my favorite guitars ever was an ES-175 that I used for jazz gigs all through college. I still have a strong affinity for the look and general feel of Gibson-style guitars. I have traded out all of my Gibsons and my primary guitars for recording and performing are all Epiphone SGs. The frets are great, the neck is different but familiar, and even after extensive upgrades to wiring, pickups, tuners, and bridge I’m left with a guitar that to me plays better than my Gibson SGs ever did and look even better (I want more options than red or black, Gibson) for less than half the price of a stock Gibson that I would still need to do those mods on. Epiphone has also been doing for a while exactly what you have suggested that Gibson do with their Traditional Pro, Modern, and Prophecy model lines. It’s funny to me that one of the companies providing proof or how Gibson is not in line with the times to justify their price point and putting out options that just eat their lunch is a subsidiary line.
Fun fact: all Gibson and Epiphone guitars are made in the same Chinese factory from the same material(wood), the only difference is the logo.
@@xyrius you know that’s not at all true, right?
As a lifetime SG player I had a couple of standards that were awesome. I bought a SG with the lyre tremolo it was $2300.00 and I had to take it to a Luther because the frets were horrible and had tuning instability . It cost another $400.00 just to fix the frets and action. It was the worst investment I ever made in a guitar. I couldn't use the tremolo it just went out of tune with the smallest touch. The tremolo turned out to be just for show. I ended up selling it for $1200.00.
The SG itself is amazing. Today's Gibson aren't the company that created it. Not even close. They produce cack and charge for the branding. We are the f00lz.
After playing for 15 years, I decided to buy my first American brand new guitar. A 2020 Gibson SG Standard. And It makes me sad to say what a terrible experience it was trying to gig with it for 3 years. I absolutely loved how it felt and sounded. Tuning was incredibly stable, the neck was glorious (neck dive was bad but manageable). I also noticed it was harder to play in the upper frets, but I'm not a fast player so I didn't mind it too much. But oh my god were the electronics bad. My volume pots were garbage, the taper on it was clunky. The tone knob left a lot to be desired. But worst of all was the circuit board instead of point-to-point soldering, and all of the electrical components (except the pickups, those were great when they worked). The selector switch was incredibly unreliable, and after every gig I'd have to clean it because the smallest piece of dust would interrupt the connection. But above all, my SG would randomly lose all signal, just go completely silent. And worst of all it mainly happened on gigs, rarely at rehearsals or in the studio. I took it to every guitar tech/luthier I know, and no one could resolve it or even replicate it on command. If I hadn't taken videos, no one would believe it was happening. After spending thousands on the guitar, hundreds on maintenance, I was looking at having to pay more to swap out the board and rewire it altogether. What a heartbreaking joke of a guitar that I literally loved everything about but was essentially unreliable to the point of being unplayable. I sold it and my Mexican Strat, and used the money on a PRS Silver Sky ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I miss the humbuckers, and definitely sacrificed the magic of the SG sound. But at least I have something that always works without a single point of failure.
Should have changed out the electronics, pretty cheap and easy to do yourself
Yeah I just have no experience with that level of work, I've only ever changed pickups a couple of times. So I was afraid of making it worse and investing even more into an already expensive and faulty piece of gear. One day I will return to the SG and try again. I do miss it @@Cognitoman
Thanks for your upload. There's only two types of Guitars I see myself "collecting" (having numerous versions / styles of) and that would be Telecasters and SG's.
Telecasters I've played for a long time. SG's are new to me. Well, Epiphone SG's. I picked up an Epiphone SG Special for £100. And I tell you, it's one of the best purchases I ever made. That guitar is so comfortable to play. It is definitely more a RHYTHM guitar, though obviously you can play leads on anything you like. It's just more a solid, rhythm guitar. But the neck is just ... the calluses on my fingers say I'm playing the hell out of it, but I can't feel a thing.
I then picked up an Epiphone SG G400. Completely different guitar, but like you're saying about comfort further up the neck. It is absolutely a comfortable lead guitar. I have a Fender Stratocaster (MIUSA) that got damaged recently that I've owned for like, thirty years. The damage was so extensive that literally, I just figured I'd find a "new" lead guitar until I could find another Fender just like it, or at least see how much the damage is going to be, and get my Strat back. I was devastated when i discovered the damage.
Anyway!!!
That Epiphone SG G-400 is now my go to lead guitar. It's missing the tremolo of course that my Strat has, but it is absolutely going to be the guitar I head to for straight leads. (It all depends on the song really what suits. I have a Harley Benton JA-60 that I use for all kinds of atmospheric / ambient things. I've owned that guitar for over a year and still haven't changed its factory strings yet. Out of the box it was one of the most unique and distinct sounding guitars I'd ever played.)
The obvious next step is a Gibson. That's what I was planning to do. Even though I am absolutely in love with my two Epiphone SG's, one does want "the real deal" right?
Maybe not so much after this video. Thanks for your upload. It's good to know all pros and cons of things before we invest in something that we think is going to make us happy, but ...
Breakable headstock 😂😂
Love this video. I’ve been playing an SG Standard as my #1 since ’92.
I like all your ideas regarding Gibson's designs - I've got a 2007 Les Paul BFG with a chambered body and I love it. I'm not normally a Gibson fan, but mine has Grover tuners and is comfortable, light and easy to play. I also prefer modern guitars but, for whatever reason, I love that BFG.
I'll have you in charge of the Refined Vintage division, Simon. As you know, the modern collection will be all mine.
@@andrefludd - you're too kind! It'd be an honour.
The heartwood 335 is amazing for a budget guitar . The Gibson sg is iconic . Epiphone are getting closer to it to be fair.. my biggest regret was selling my Gibson sg . It was absolutely gorgeous to play
Preach! I especially like the point about upgrading from an Epiphone to a 'lower end' USA Gibson isn't an upgrade.
Great content dude, also I love your low-key patreon plug in there lol. Subscribed.
Excellent video! I really like how you described the transition of the guitar brands (PRS SE to Core) as a consumer from a learner to a more experienced player. I’m primarilary an acoustic player and the Epiphone line of acoustics is equal to the Gibson line for 1/4 of the price.
It is interesting to me that we players want guitars that our hero’s had, when in reality, our hero’s had very limited options and just essentially chose the best of the 5 or so guitars that were in the store when they had the money to make a purchase.
Interesting point of view, agree with much you've said here about Gibson's various flaws. But for SGs I've become a fan. I'm a senior and after a lifetime of playing various Gibson, Fender and PRS, I recently picked up my first SG, a used 2018 SG Special (1974 reissue, small block inlays, 24 frets) with Firebird blade minis. I really love this SG. The form factor is perfect for my frame and hands. I expected the left throw of it to be a problem as you and others have mentioned but I find it's perfect for me, lower and mid fret access is just right. Lots of folks don't like the Gibson "dual blade" minis with ceramic magnets, but both the neck and bridge pups have a great tone. Mahogany neck has endless sustain. This SG is all I play right now it hits all the sweet spots for blues.
i have the exact same guitar, the 2018 sg special and dont get me wrong, I like it very much.
However, I picked it up for 450 bucks and Id say that price is about right for that guitar, maybe 700-800 bucks. I'd say the original asking priece is ridiculously overpriced given how many quality flaws there are, given the very thin finish without any clear coat and how quick it will wear off once you start really playing and gigging that thing. With mine, the way the fretboard is fitted to the neck at the body side end is really bad, which of course gets pronounced by the absence of binding.
Thats the point with Gibson really: their asking price and "premium" branding writes checks their quality control just can not chash in.
@@ithemba I got it used but a little pricey, so was happy to pay to not have binding as I dislike fret nibs. Plus I like the 24 frets and I love the ceramic pickups. Sadly I missed at first that the neck is a tiny bit twisted and the bridge position is a little off. So I agree with your assessment about Gibson price versus what value you actually get. Had 3 Les Pauls that were excellent quality, but this SG is a mixed bag.
@@jimmyjames2022 but are those mini humbuckers really the Firebird pus? I always thought they just are the same mini hbs like in a deluxe, just without pole pieces. Never took them out to check for magnets or anything tho.
They are brighter than standard burstbuckers for sure.
@@ithemba these look like Firebird but are different. Firebird have two magnetized blades in coils, with reflector plate under. These have two non magnetized blades in coils with one bar magnet under and no reflector plate. So these are like regular minis only instead of one blade and six screw slugs it's two blades.
I have a "modern" Les Paul that is light weight, has jumbo frets, locking tuners, Duncan pickups,the nicest heel joint carve ever, and comfort carves everywhere. It's a Washburn Parallaxe. Sadly, they discontinued that model a few years ago, but I got mine, lol!
So I just decided the guitar I need to replace my Les Paul is an SG and this is the second video I've watched. I'm glad I did because there is now the Gibson 2014 Modern collection featuring different tuners and medium jumbo frets. I'm glad I watched this because I would have blindly bought one as you described otherwise. Thank God.
I'll be honest, being close to 30 years old, I never cared for modern guitar designs. Strats, Teles, SGs, Les Pauls, Gretsch; those are electric guitars for me. The moment it deviates from those shapes I am off-put. It's just my taste. Which is why I found your video very very fascinating to watch. You hold absolutely valid points.
Let's see this guy review a beautiful handcrafted rickenbacker
Sorry that they're beautiful classic designs not for modern day shredders
@@brandonlefton1346You know the first guitar's people were shredding on were gibson's and fenders right?
@@beefnacos6258 Yeah! Guitars used to be handcrafted, even fenders. Fenders started with a beautiful one-piece maple neck, and then became mass produced cheap kit guitars, for which I understand why and what the practical reasons are--they are customizable and affordable--but you can still have the option of playing a beautiful hand built artisanal quality Fender if you wish. Gibson craps out guitars now and cashes in on the legacy of their brand name. Gibsons originally were more artisanal like Rickenbackers. Rickenbacker is one of the last brands to stick to their original standards of quality control--their guitars are still hand-built in America and it shows. I own a 2018 330 mapleglo and it handles like a quality instrument. Rickenbacker shows what Gibson and, to a lesser extent, fender, could be if they stuck to their roots instead of selling out and losing credibility.
I appreciate Andre's idea for Gibson to stay true to their heritage designs while also innovating on a new line of instruments--I think that's a great idea.
But don't look at a gibson sg and expect it to play like a shredder guitar--like an ibanez, prs, shecter, or whatever. SGs are no frills guitars for people who don't need all kinds of bells and whistles--but yes--gibson is overpriced and needs to earn back credibility since their quality control is not in check.
If we simplify things, their success was due to legendary players playing their instruments. They thrived in the single coil fender and gibson humbucker duopoly. These days, the youth are thinking of those legends less and less (because time passes). And the duopoly they thrived on is dead. I've been wondering for years what their strategy would turn into. *I personally still love the gibs I've owned* , but their plan still seems to be "Hey we're Gibson, we have history".
That's literally why 99% of companies are successful. People strongly prefer established brands that have heritage. This has always been true across every industry. Some people enjoy experimenting with new or niche products but they are few and far between.
I'd also argue that being made in America is an incredibly strong selling point that few other brands with their scale of production can say. Gibson & Fender also pretty much cornered the market on beautiful electric guitar design right away. A lot of newer guitars are plain ugly. Additionally they hold their value. If you're buying a Fender or Gibson guitar and keep it in good condition, you can re-sell for 85%-90% of MSRP no problem short term, and long term they actually go up to stay similar to current new instrument MSRPs.
Unfortunately for smaller brands, very few people who buy instruments progress beyond early phases of playing, so most sales will go to whatever brand current new students think of when they think of the artist that made them want to learn. It's far more rare to progress far enough to realize there are much more unique and cool sounds available from brands like Gretsch or cool fretboard layouts that have musical implications like true temperment frets etc
All that said, we are still at the point where all the $ to be spent on guitars is held by people who grew up with Gibson/Fender as the iconic two brands. Kids aren't buying $8k murphy lab guitars, their parents/ grandparents who are 50+ are. Like he said in the video, time is running out for Gibson tosurvive on only the LP and SG. Guitar barely exists in modern music in the first place, and when it does, it isn't a LP being played on that Polyphia track
It's more like "we are targeting only the most wealthy people with our Gibson line, poor people need not apply"... for the "rest of us" Gibson gives us really nice Epiphone guitars today. You're still buying from the Gibson brands name, and the quality post Henry J as CEO is awesome. James Curleigh as CEO of Gibson has done wonders with the brand. They call them "Inspired by Gibson" (IBG) models... The Epiphone IBG '59 Les Paul (has Gibson USA pickups, too) is (TO ME) the best choice for a Les Paul... plus this model comes with a super nice hard case... and still under $1,000 ($850-900 range) weeee...
@@candlestickproductions6950 Gibson's are far from the most expensive instruments . These days guitars that don't come close to Gibson greatness cost more than Gibson's .
So are you going to put the Gibson pickups in the prs?
I love the named chapters you've given to this video man. Genuinely funny. I also like the moxy you got here brother, you're not afraid to speak your mind and talk about what the company needs. I think that takes some guts.
I love that you played a sabbath riff on that SG. Thank you. I thought the tone was really faithful as well.
That’s hard to believe when Tony Iommi played an SG special with custom P90s.
@@oonamorrioghanblackthorne Tony has also used models with hums in the past as well. A simple search of the internet can do wonders, huh?
@@slimechristofficial true but not for the first three record albums.
I love this dude. His honest review has some characters that are unique to me that none of the other guitar UA-camrs have
It's because he's an actual musician and a serious player as well
It seems to come down to owning one and hearing stuff about others.
your comments about hand position are spot on. Most of my guitars make me reach way out to get my sweet spot 5-7th fr. The Coronado has a big body and much of it sits to the right so it brings those frets closer. Kind of the opposite of what your SG does, but it works for me.
Your backdrop looks sick btw. Love the ambiance
Thanks! Just a couple of lights and a cheap room divider :)
LMAO! 😂 I love that you include the "breakable headstock" as a vintage spec! 😂
There is a direct correlation between fragility and increased tone.
it really is. gibson tried updating the neck style by adding volutes to the back of the neck to strengthen it and those models didn't sell as well, and aren't as collectable.
@@leinonibishop9480 funny thing is that now everyone wants one, every time gibson makes a volute neck les paul on the mod/demo shop, it sells immediately no matter the price.
I think it would be better marketing to refer to it as a "repairable headstock"
@@ashleyjohansson230 yeah but is that specifically because of the volute or just because it's a gibson custom shop and most of those sell out anyway?
Great review and breakdown. Alot can be said about the current state of Gibson as a manufacturer and brand, and you covered pretty much all of the concerns. That being said, I got a 2020 ES-335 in 2021 and I couldn't love it more. I'll chalk it up to getting lucky with QC (although it wasnt luck, my local store had a 335 they let me noodle around on weekly before purchasing it, so I already knew the guitar was well built and set up). Looking back, if I hadnt had the opportunity to test it and get to know it for a month or so before purchasing I prolly would have went with an Ibanez JSM10 even though Im not a fan of the slimer body. A 335 has been my dream guitar since I was a child, and Im beyond stoked to have found one that lives up to its expectation. And tbh, I don't enjoy playing other guitars. Strat and Tele style fretboards arent wide enough for my big hands (although Fender, Charvel, Ibaneze, Suhr, and others have AMAZING tone and control of said tone), SG and LP style axes are so damn heavy for how small the bodies are and I've never played one with an action and general set up I've enjoyed.
ALLLLLLLL that being said, I wont be buying anymore Gibson guitars. I was lucky to have found a modern 335 that stood up to what we as players expect from the guitar. I have played SO MANY vintage 335's, 175's, 339's ect ect, and I can say my 335 stacks up to them very well. My childhood dream of owning and playing it as my main axe has been fulfilled, and my next guitars will definitely be from a company that shows its continuing to keep up with the times while maintaining quality. It's a shame, but sometimes a brands history of competence is only that....history...not a testament to their current operations.
Your point about wear the hand grabs the neck was really useful. It explains why Duane Allman played one. There's two bones in your forearm and they cross when you turn your arm left and right. So if your arm is straight, it will be most comfortable.
Some of your suggestions for Gibson sound like things that Fender already does. I have an Eric Johnson strat that is basically a '57 with modern frets and no string tree, custom pickups. It doesn't stay in tune more than a day, but I credit that to the wood swelling and contracting, not the tuners. When it gets humid, the guitar goes sharp, etc.
What is the model of leg brace on your Dentist Special? I could REALLY benefit from one of those man. Please respond if you see this. Thanks in advance.
(I did google it before wasting both our time asking. I found some, but none that looks as well as that one.)
Ok, I found it, but can't find any for sale sadly
Performaxe. Yea they are always back ordered it’s a pain.
Also a big fan of Gibson pickups, particularly their 57 classics. Got a set in a vintage LP copy that plays, feels and sounds every bit as good as a $2000+ Gibson LP. It cost me $200 for the guitar (carcass with no hardware/electrics) , $300 for the pickups and another $250 or so for all the miscellaneous bits and pieces. Even rounding up to $1000 to include my time in the cost, I have a much better guitar, it's from the early 90s so has been very well played in (fretboard feels amazing), the tone is exactly what I was looking for thanks to the 57 classics and the electrics are all wired exactly how I like them. Why did I go this route? After returning 3 Gibson Les Pauls (at various price points) because not a single one of them ticked all the boxes I decided I would get the guitar I wanted not the "affordable" ones Gibson offers. I hit every guitar store in my city until I found a Les Paul that felt right, it's not even a Gibson or Epiphone, then upgraded it so everything was just right. Gibson these days is a lifestyle brand not a guitar company.
They used to make some amazing guitars and for the right price, kind of still do but you can get a lot better for a lot less if you know what you are looking for. The fact that I would have to spend $5000+ to get the guitar I want from them says it all. Epiphone's higher end is better than their entire standard line these days and you can tell they have noticed because the prices on Epiphones have skyrocketed of late. It's as if they think making Epiphones more expensive will help them somehow, all it's doing is making people shift to other brands entirely. I would rather spend ~$400 on a Harley Benton with Stainless steel frets, Gotoh hardware and a beautiful figured top than spend $1200 on a worse specced Epiphone.
Gibson are irrelevant already, only their fans and collectors haven't realized it yet. For the market they are meant to address, players (and not the "influencers" who shill them), they are completely redundant today. For the cost of a "good" Gibson I can buy a fully custom, bespoke, boutique guitar and have the only one in existence, how does that make sense?
Gibson sells guitars to people who have the money. These are not really professional musicians that support the guitar industry, but rather, the masses that dream of emulating their hero's.
Their market was already established, decades ago, so there is no reason to stray into new water, where they have no real chance of competing.
It might be boring, but excitement isn't why they go to work every day. There are many "better builders" than Gibson, but when we consider why any person would actually buy a three or four thousand dollar guitar, sight unseen...
They are only considering the coolness factor.
It doesn't make sense. It makes dollars!
Interesting thoughts on Gibson - I tend to agree with you. When I was a 15 yo kid my first "real" guitar was a brand new 1971 SG Standard. However, I still lusted for a Les Paul. Tried a bunch of Les Pauls over the years and found one that was tolerable. Strats are still my favorite because they are ergonomic. I still use a '61 reissue SG for slide cause it sounds amazing. I also own a bunch of PRS guitars in all price ranges - all quality instruments and some are excellent values.
I was a Strat player for years, then bought both an SG and Les Paul in a relatively short period of time (my first Gibsons). Now I find the Strat to be the most uncomfortable of all the electrics I own, and seldom play it. I also find its single coil pickups to be the least versatile - there’s no beef to them whatsoever. I feel that the SG is superior in every way. Of course, I keep my Strat for those times when I want that specific sound, but I consider it a one-trick pony when compared to the versatility of the Gibsons. It’s funny how different we view the same guitars - I guess that’s what keeps all these companies alive and well.
Oh man what is this hip support thingy on your golden PRS called?
Performaxe
I could quarrel over a few things, but this is mostly spot-on. I'm 79, been playing for more than half a century, & have never been interested in acquiring a Gibson of any model. Just as a local restaurant named "The 50s Grill" is eventually going to be without nostalgic customers who like the music and clothing of that era, Gibson's "glory days" are going to recede over the horizon. It's the nature of things. Very, very few people were guitarists in the 1860s, or professional athletes, or…. Societies change, and what's popular now in terms of consumer goods isn't likely to be popular a century from now.
The Heritage (in Kalamazoo) still makes the Jazz Boxes. Fairly pricey. Small company made up of former builders in the old Gibson Michigan location. QC not an issue with The Heritage.
Yes. If someone wants Gibson but done right, Heritage is the company IMO.
Gibson to become irrelevant soon? Umm … no. Andre’s excruciatingly nuanced, detailed, and highly personal analysis notwithstanding, Gibson will be just fine and those who don't believe it fail to understand the power of the brand. Gibson is the Harley Davidson of the guitar world. Announce to a room of master motorcycle mechanics that Harleys are the best motorcycles on the planet and the room will echo with laughter. But if you’re a Harley guy, or you aspire to be one, then nothing else will do. Kawasaki, Yamaha, BMW, etc. -- they just won’t cut it. And so it is with Gibson guitars, and Gibson knows this. Wait -- what about this common observation: “The Epiphones are so good today Gibson must be nuts to allow Epi to eat their lunch!” Nope. Doesn’t matter how good Epis are, and Gibson knows it. Because if you want Gibson on the headstock (and millions do and no most of them are not aging Boomers despite Andre’s assessment) there’s only one honest way to get it -- you pay the Gibson tax. People have paid it, they do pay it, and they will continue to pay it. Guitar companies are smarter than guitarists generally credit them with being and Gibson is way smarter than the ‘Gibson doesn’t get’ people.
Yeah, but boomers are dying out and gibsons are less and less popular among younger people. Rock music us far from its prime in the 80's and I believe that no modern slash would appear to grant good enough sales figures to save it from flopping within the next 10-15 years. I might be wrong, and the brand/company might be alright, but not as a company that sells electric guitars.
@@dmytrotarasov9477 actual boomers are dying out but they did pass their values and traditions on to their children and some of their children will pass it on to their children too. thinking the people you disagree with are just going to die off and that will solve all your problems is just wishful thinking.
@@leinonibishop9480 There aren't many revolutionary guitar heroes currently, so young players are going back 30+ years for inspiration, and what brands did so many of the legends play? Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, Rickenbacker, Guild.
Yeah, primarily bought by poseur dentists to show off on the weekends.
@@jasondorsey7110 i don't think that's a bad thing. maybe going back to those classic guitar heroes will inspire some new ones. there a some newer musicians doing some innovative things, they just aren't on the radio.
if these younger generations are anything like me they are just looking for something real that's not autotuned all to hell.
Excellent perspective 👍Thank you for sharing
Love your background panels 🤟🏽
Praise Iommi. I’d also love a 24 fret “RD” shape from any company. Explorers need 24 frets too !
Edit: I’ve been saving up for a FGN Mythic J Standard, there don’t seem to be many reviews or any videos on them at all. It’s pretty close to a guitar I’d have custom made for myself
Fgn guitars look sick
Great video! Gibson has become a victim of its past success. When it offers new and improved products, they almost always flop as their core customers want the icons from its past. For many years now, Gibson employees have been unhappy-- and that unhappiness finds its way into the product; hence it's decades long QC issues. Contrast the Gibson working environment with that of PRS-- and the difference is night & day. PRS also has the freedom to build whatever it likes, and continually seeks to improve the product. That kind of freedom has resulted in some fantastic guitars!
But PRS isn't stuck with an iconic name. They haven't invented a specific model that the world can't live without.
When Paul releases a Nitro finished SE, that can be fitted with any pickups, it is hard to imagine that he will be able to keep up with the demand.
Maybe that is why he hasn't done it - Yet!
That intro riff is so pleasing.
I'd argue that Gibson became irrelevant in June of 1985 (PRS debuted at NAMM). And at this point their focus is on collectors and investors, not musicians.
PRS doesn’t sound like a Gibson, much more articulate, and they look tacky. Les Paul Classic is what Pixies and Breeders used, much cheaper than a PRS at the time. These days you can get an lp studio and it will sound the part, unlike a PRS. Only the 594 is even in ballpark.
Both appeal more so to a more affluent customer. Fender can get a bit pricey, but it's only for little changes. Fender is a bit behind on designs but, they're still very serviceable. Epiphone, I would say, is the only thing keeping Gibson alive.
@@BIGBOPPER41 From Epiphone is probably the bulk of instrument sales, but I bet what's really keeping Gibson afloat is t-shirts and other merch (and maybe lawsuits :p )
@@Zundfolge oh easily, that's the only way Gibson is on life support
@@BIGBOPPER41 gibson is the number 1 guitar company in the world. Guitar in general is on life support while gibson is thriving.
All great points. The biggest thing that positively sets Gibson apart, for me, is the 24.75" scale length. I have small hands & have a hard time bending 9-gauge strings in E standard on 25.5-scale guitars. The spacing of the frets also just feels really comfortable for me; I tune all my 25.5 guitars to Eb at the highest, but the spacing is the same & 24.75 just feels a lot better, regardless of tuning.
Absolutely love your ideas on what Gibson should do, tho (a 25.5 LP sounds awful, to me, but ppl would dig it & the multi-scale Firebird sounds amazing). I also really personally hate that every multi-scale 6-string has the smallest scale be 25.5 (with the exception of the Cort KX whatever-it's-called & think ppl might really appreciate a 25.5-24.75 low-high Gibson (especially a Firebird).
The state of this sort of thing is still pretty primative. It's not widely discussed: Size fitting. Pretty simple, yet the smaller scale instruments are student models, although the end result is the same. Mustangs are 24" scale and even better for smaller hands. I think a lot of people are drawn to the looks and mystique, rather than ergonomics. People who sling guitars really low are into show. (they often dress up also LOL)
@@macjones55 For sure. I've been playing for almost 15 years & I never heard of scale length until 5ish years ago. Another thing I didn't hear early enough in my guitar career is strap-button placement--another thing homies probs don't think about--which is super important for ppl who actually play wearing straps (ie, gigging lolz). I think partially bcuz strats & strat-style guitars have the button in-line with the 12th fret & is therefor not an issue.
Likewise, it's really stupid to play sitting down & *not* in classical position. Ppl who play sitting down most of the time (bedroom jammers), & do so for decades are looking at getting messed-up shoulders & fret-hand wrist issues playing the "normal" way. I'm going on a tangent now lol, but ppl also need to sit up straight if they wanna avoid getting bad backs when they're older. If your back, shoulder(s), &/or wrist(s) are fkd up, it's gonna fk up your playing.
Got a 90s Epiphone Les Paul two days ago. It’s wicked but I get what you mean about feeling the whole fretboard, the frets are a lot bigger than my MIM Fender Telecaster (maybe that’s normal) and the weight can be annoying, even if it’s just because you need to get used to the weight so you don’t drop it. I wouldn’t wanna drop it, it’d be like dropping a hammer onto it from the same height.
Great points and lots of insight! I think it really has to do with genre. Most metal players are not going for gibson or fender. However, the guys playing country, southern rock, and blues or really more traditional electric guitar stuff are still playing Gibson and Fender and their lower tear stuff which is honestly better than lower end brand named stuff. I will say that brands like Suhr are eating up that market share and make great stuff thought I don't own a Suhr. It all depends on location I think too. Like here in Texas there are still people who love the classic styles, but we also have many classic players from Texas. Of course, you will see a ton of Dean ML type guitars because of Dime. Again, I enjoyed your perspective. Keep rocking!! 🤘
As someone who owns and loves a Gibson guitar, that being a 2013 used Les Paul Standard, I would recommend anyone who is looking to buy a Gibson to play it first. When I got my Les Paul, I spent maybe 2 hours in a really good guitar store trying other Gibson guitars, and let me tell you, despite being mostly the same model, they all felt very different to me. Gibson does not have the same consistency across the board as say PRS, which I also love and own. They all have a very different feel, different neck width, and speak to you differently, so I recommend you play it first if you’re looking to buy one. You may end up purchasing something you regret. Also, one benefit to Gibson is, unlike most guitars, the value in them doesn’t really go down. If anything, it goes up over time. So, if you end up getting a Gibson guitar that you don’t like, it’s not the end of the world because they have great resale value, unless you foreclosed your house to buy one. Then you’re screwed. 😂
'I was born in '92 and started playing guitar in 2004...' Thanks for making me feel old and unaccomplished Andre! 😁
I also feel old and unaccomplished. Good to know that feeling never goes away lol.
i started guitar in 2007 and all I play are 2000s pop music lol
@@ashleyjohansson230 I just turned 40 and got a resonator, so all I play at the moment is slide!
I love my epiphone thunderbird ( im a peasant bass player), what other companies make the thunderbird style bass and/body shape clone ?
ESP/Ltd has one I think.
Such a brilliantly concise and most fair review' Thank you!🎸🎼
I’ve always liked what Gibson’s done to “modernize” their models, despite what their boomer clientele thought. When I was starting to play guitar I always thought the High Performance LP’s were super cool, especially the 2018 with direct mounted pickups.
Agreed. The PCB system, Plek from factory, asymmetrical neck carve were all super modern. And with things like the Dark Fire, they were innovating, but the purists fought against it.
I hope they will bing back the volute for good to protect this idiotic headstock angle. Maybe keep it traditional on a specific line like Fender and their American Vintage, and in the Murphy's Lab.
You can be modern and keep a vintage appeal
@@ANTHONYFERNANDO maybe that means the younger generations need to be more vocal and push Gibson to go back to those types of innovations. It makes Andre’s proposal make even more sense - then there is something for everyone to love. They can still embrace the past, but the present and future is going to keep them alive. I also loved those 2018 HP’s - and that was well before I learned to play starting in 2020. I’m 42 now. The LP HP made me take notice when I was toying with the idea of learning to play. That’s the type of guitars we want from them. Rich boomers who can buy $50,000 Greeny replicas won’t sustain them.
Btw, the Modern collection from Epiphone seems to have more options and variety than the Gibson variants. I wonder if Andre would prefer any model from the Epiphone Modern line to a Gibson. 🤔
The les Paul moderns are actually pretty sick, the problem is that there is still better for cheaper. And theyre still missing standard modern upgrades like ss frets
You should checkout the gibson mod shop every wednesdays, they make really weird stuff on their. They recently even made a rainbow les paul junior lol.
It appears that a good portion, by no means all, of the review comes down to personal preferences based on one's style(s) of play. Still the poor tuners, an easily corrected problem (Gibson are you paying attention), and the price (the biggest divide) are issues to consider. The trem expense and the upgrade transition thoughts, are interesting points. As to having a trem or not, I see a place for both, especially with certain styles of play. Personally for traditional jazz, blues, good old rock in roll (In a number of contexts, though certainly not all, I am looking at you Jimmy, SRV etc. ) etc. a trem just gets in my way. I prefer a fixed bridge in those circumstances. I am also not so bothered by transitioning between modern and traditional frets. I see an advantage in owning both and buying multiple instruments is something that answers a few of the stated problems, not to mention other benefits.
I remember, a number of years ago, having conversations surrounding the playability of Strats vs Les Pauls or in broader context, to varying degrees, Fender vs Gibson. The conversation being that, in general, Strats make one work harder while Les Pauls were easier to play. The take back then, outside of tonal and other differences, was having a guitar that was a bit harder to play (within reason 🤓) made for a broader experience, creating different ideas, making one a better player in the effort. This is a lesson, I understood by playing both instruments and electric and acoustic instruments as well .
I really appreciated, your suggestions to Gibson about new lines etc. as a solution to your complaints. This makes allot of sense, even if Gibson does not follow every point of your template. There is no doubt that by appealing to a broader market, Gibson would be doing themselves a favor.
As to the major issues, I would add quality control, though it is my understanding Gibson has been working to improve in this area..
Gibson customers make a lot of noise, when the company tries to innovate, even in the smallest of details. They get horrendous reviews that can do a lot of damage to the "Gibson" name.
They have a half a dozen, time tested, great models that still sell very well today, and no valid reason to risk losing loyal customers, by putting the Gibson name, on pointy guitars. There is nowhere to go, but down, for the company that sits on the top of the "reputation" pile.
The "Robot Tuners" were a great example of this.
I can't tell you how many Gibson's I have been paid to convert back to a regular Nut and tuners, when most of them worked great, from the factory...
And all of them have lost value, because they are now, for ever "modified".
The idea was great, but not on a "Flag-Ship Guitar"
My second guitar was a Gibson Les Paul Studio that I got for my 18th birthday back in 2003 that cost $1100. My first guitar was a crappy used Yamaha that I got for $125 with amp at a pawn shop. So that LP was a huge upgrade to me. I got it because I was a huge AFI fan and that’s the guitar their guitarist used. I still love that thing and it’s been my primary guitar for 20 years. I don’t think I ever played another Gibson besides that one.
But what’s interesting is that my friend who started playing guitar when I did, had an Epiphone Les Paul that he got at a pawn shop. That guitar has been his primary guitar for 20 years. We don’t know if it’s stock or had any upgrades, but that thing always played and sounded great. And his guitar is a heck of a lot lighter than mine.
Very good analysis, thanks for addressing the fret issue! I'm baffled as to why they now come with smaller frets, even though they're still advertised as Medium Jumbos. I remember particularly liking the playability of 2010s era Gibson necks. Wonder if a refret would turn things around?
Yea my whole thing is that once you add a re fret, now this guitar is above $1500. So many options up there. Could by 2 PRS Se guitars at that point!
@@andrefludd Very fair point haha
I love your videos. They're so intelligent and thoughtfully considered. So many guitarists are mind-numbed, brand-washed zombies. Having grown up in the sixties and seventies, I used to be as well.
I do own a number of Fender and Gibson guitars, and they're great; but I get really excited when I find a cool new IYV, Eart, NK, Leo Jaymz or Grote. But I get really excited when I find a vintage Lotus, Tokai, or Greco in a pawn shop. My latest cool find is a Boya & Ziqi multi-scale headless "Lizard 6". Dang that's a cool guitar!
I also keep my eyes peeled for any Indonesian made Cort when I am pawn-shopping. I have never found an Indonesian Cort that was a bad guitar. If I was to pick a favorite "brand" it'd be anything made by Cort in Indonesia, regardless of the brand name on the headstock.
If you ran that guitar through a Marshall-style amp playing dad blues/rock, it would be absolutely perfect for you. Not playing anything too fast, obviously, but with some vibe, feeling, and soul to it. That's how Gibson works.
That’s exactly what it’s perfect for! I show that in episode 2.
I got a Gibson SG a few years ago as I bought a whole load of gear from a friend, including the SG, a Laney Tube amp, a Mark Bass bass amp, a SUB 4 base, a Takamine acoustic, and a bunch of pedals. I was mainly in the deal for the bass, but I was kinda interested in the SG too.
It was an SG Special '60s Tributel with P90s, and I also hadn't had a P90 equipped guitar before.
Note that this is also the first (and only) Gibson I've ever owned. I'm not entirely sure (offhand) which year it was made.
You talk about the "New Guitar Joy Phase", but I never got that with this guitar. But something made me keep it anyway.
4 years on, and (after a couple of years of travel away) I picked it up and I'm kind of vibing with it. I think it's a keeper. It's a nitro finish with quick a heavy wood grain, and there's something kind of "organic" about it I kind of like. It's also a big challenging to play, but not in a bad way.
But... and here's the kicker. I think I could get the same vibe from a Harley Benton clone. It's not that great a guitar that I would pay a lot of money for it (in the end I got a great deal from my friend so I consider the SG as almost free). If I was looking to invest in an SG style guitar, I would look at a lot of the other options too. And, from what I have heard, many of them are as good or better.
I've kind of fallen for this instrument but that's because I think it's a decent one (which, given Gibson's QC is a bonus). But I'm under no illusions that it's because there is something special about it, or especially not because it's a Gibson.
That is the best explanation ive heard about the hight fret comfort of an SG. And you are completely correct.
Great video!
Yet, Gibson seems to do very well. It's us older folks who still love the LP and SG because of our heritage and the sustain and acoustics! To me, there is no other that can match the sound, the feel and vibe of my SG and LP. I have Fender, Gretsch and Epiphone and I still come back to my Gibsons for the fat neck and the rockin growl. I'm still open to others cuz I love all guitars and can't wait to try something new.
Having chosen an SG because it is the design with the fewest copies makes this experiment REAL. Amazing starting point
I completely agree to say that Gibson is sticking too much now at days to their vintage specs, I get it, they invented a lot and change the guitar world bla bla, that being said, I think they can use and still improve new features, at this moment in time there are no models with locking tuners (might be wrong) and for me, that's something you would expect in a guitar with those prices.
Great video and experiment.
BTW that Ormsby harpoon headstock is the coolest!
They've tried that and it never worked for them.
@@Safetysealed Gibson's motto is "if it ain't broke don't fix it"! They're selling hundreds of thousands of guitars a year so someone must like their "outdated" styles! Let the boutique guitar guys try to "improve" on the Gibson and Fender design.
Gibson has found that trying to be something other than what they have always been doesn't work. And it diminishes the brand when they try to do something too different. I could see them reviving some guitars that they don't make any more, though.
If you don't like what Gibson offers then go buy a different brand! It's that simple! Don't worry about Gibson not getting your cash, they've went from having 20% of the market in 2020 to 34% today!
Les Paul standards come with locking tuners out of the box? Not sure where your info is from - maybe head to your local guitar sure or check out the Gibson website for specs. The SG was a weird choice here as it’s hardly the best guitar that Gibson make (which is why there aren’t many copies out there) and many Gibson players don’t really rate them. Despite the reviewer having played many "LP style guitars", he would have been better off trying a modern, weight relieved Les Paul Standard. I have students that come to me with the same claims all the time and I whip out my 2013 standard and give them a play & they’re surprised that their copy doesn’t sing like a real one, is heavier, and no where near as pretty. Add in that my Gibson is now worth approximately double what I paid for it, and you don’t really lose out on Gibson guitars if you keep them over the long term. My ’93 Nighthawk (not the most popular Gibson) is worth roughly triple what I paid for it in 1996. Try that with an ESP or Edwards (or any other copy). They play well, but don’t hold their value like American built guitars.
@@Safetysealed The Gibson HP line has the modern features you’re looking for like the access heel, titanium nut, asymmetric neck profile etc. They just shifted some of the modern innovations out of the standard to appease the rusted on purists. Although they still feature innovations like ultra-modern weight relief etc. so they’re hardly exactly like a ‘59
@@PrisonerD My 2016 SG Standard came with locking tuners right out of the box!
Thanks mate you are talking sense and hope the people can understand your inputs. Keep the good work mate. Blessings and Peace from ENGLAND 🏴 👍👍🤘🤘
"What is this I see before me?
Figure in black, with words of fire"
- This review is next-level!
Many brands have made good money selling nostalgia - and not just guitars. But every one of those brands ultimately has to ponder a future when their traditional buyers are gone and succeeding generations don't catch the fever.
Great experiment! Loved this series.
If you can ever get your hands on an Axcess LP Custom your 100 hrs opinion would be an engrossing compare/contrast with the SG. The Axcess Custom is Gibson’s attempt at a more modern high-end thing and compared to the just-the-basics SG it would be interesting to see if the “premium-ness” and the stock floyd and the extra few features makes a difference for you.
I bought a Gibson USA LP modern from Sam Ash last year. Love it and I can't find any QC defects with the one I got. I picked the modern over a standard for the weight relief. I've got a 90's studio that must weigh 10lbs at least. The modern is 8.2 lbs and my back thanks me.
You might find this interesting... My Les Paul is a studio model from 2015. I saw it on the wall, didn't know anything about Les Paul's other than they mainly all look the same to me. But this one wasn't that sunburst, it had a brass nut and when I played it I love love loved it. So I sit and do some research on my phone in the store because it wasn't very highly priced for a used Les Paul, And it turns out in 2015 they tried to celebrate Les Paul's hundredth birthday by upgrading the heck out of everything, the pickups, the guts, the hardware, the brass nut, they also put hefty frets on there... Some of it was upgrades to be better and some of it was stuff to make it a little more like a jazz instrument because Les Paul was a jazz guy.
... They also put a rowbo tuner on the back of the headstock, but mine was one of two Guitar Center limited runs that didn't have that...
... Needless to say, in 2015 the Gibson fan community came out with torches and pitchforks to burn Gibson to the ground for this heresy, and starting in 2016 and ever since they rolled back all these upgrades. I compared it with a new Les Paul studio in the shop and it made the new one sound like garbage. It would cost $3000+
I love Gibson SGs! Kinda unique look, fits all genres both for music and stage look. Strange thing is right hand position, you need to find right angle position of guitar and to place right bone on a specific comfort curve on the body, magically SG transforms to super comfort guitar. As per units, search for heavy versions (around 3 kg, not 2.3-2.5 kg), this guitars without neck dives. Gibson's phylosophy, that scratches and dents is another component of guitar vibe, personal things. Let it be. Nevertheless guitar with vintage vibe really has a character with it. Gibsons fits it. Imagine modern Ibanez or ESP with dents or chips - like sport motorcycle with broken plastic, not cool. Only if you are Steve Vai. But we are not him. As for price, check indonesian or korean made guitars of 2023, and Gibson is not that hugely expensive after that. But! USA quality (usually quite good), PLEK, factory setup, case, mooltitool, strap, fiber. If you are a "wood trust" person, it's difficult to find really bad sounding Gibson, so let'm make a point that something really significant is there. Officially Gibson says that SG is tho most selled their guitar, i doubt, maybe up to 70's. Everywhere dozens of Les Pauls especially Studios in aftermarket. They are kinda fragile, comparable to Fenders for example, definetely you will get scratches and dents. But acoustic guitars even more fragile and ppl using them. Spend more time with it, find right position, right sound settings on your amp. One point, better to get Special, Junior or Standard, mahoghany necks with nitro has much better feel, plus they are resonating much more, so more fun to play, so more often to play. Cheers!
I actually never bought a guitar with the urge to modify it. I never changed tuners nor pickups. You tried to make something out of your SG that was never ment to be. Gibson always failed when they tried to change their formula. Gibson/Fender/Gretsch players are mostly traditionalists and not very flexible 😉
I agree with you 100%. But things change. I think we are on the verge of all that change in the next few generations.
@@andrefludd I was born 1966, so I don't like changes anymore 😂 Keep up your great work Andre.
Always interesting and thoughtful content! Well I bought my 1968 Les Paul Custom when I was 18, 1974. Still love it, of corse, it was with me all thru my band days. In the years since I've picked up guitars for specific projects and just for fun. Doubt I would buy a modern Gibson now, but still a fan of single cutaway, 24.whatever scale and classic Gibson bridge and tailpiece rig (or a decent Fender style whammy but not Bigsby or Duesy). Keen to try a couple of Strandbergs and I do still own one of the original bolt on with acoustic pick-up Parker Fly guitars 😃
The recommendations at the end are great. I also like that you didn't suggest they outsource their manufacturing...Godin in Canada and Fender's Ensenada factory have shown that you can make quality instruments in the $500-$1000 range domestically, or at least without outsourcing across an ocean. I am excited and encouraged by the fact that Gibson has allowed Epiphone to do their own thing to some extent, and I keep hoping Epiphone's quality and little bit of modern experimentation will force Gibson to change their approach.
Gibson customers lose their shit every time the company messes with the original models. They have tried, and it has never been successful. Innovation is not what Gibson customers want to buy.
Epiphone doesn't have that problem. They are free to try almost anything, without the parent company being held responsible for the bad ideas.
Gibson are on the top of the perception pile, with no where to go, but down, by changing with tradition.
Some day, that well could dry up, but for now, they are pretty much stuck where they are
Great breakdown, and great commentary on the state of the guitar as always.
It's very true, they definitely are irrelevant. I have a PRS Tremonti (charcoal burst) that's still catches my eye when I walk by it. It just looks like a better updated modern LP, I wouldn't trade it for Gibson. They're also just so many awesome other guitars for a third of the price of a LP
PRS is nowhere near as relevant as gibson is in the world of guitars
@@wedrivebynight ok, so you aren't keeping up with guitar, that's fine.
@meatpuppets121 You can't be serious. This is not my opinion. This is fact. Gibson holds the highest market share in regards to guitar sales. PRS is nowhere near them in terms of relevance in the world of guitars. I never said that PRS themselves aren't relevant or don't make good guitars but walk into any music store in the country and you aren't going to see it full of PRS. They don't have the history or customer base or even endorsements by celebrities that Gibson has and they aren't even close dude. You can't ignore facts because you're a PRS fangirl