@@ArmchairViolence It is definitely a skill, especially when you consider most of being able to hold your drink actually comes down you learning to cope with the effects of alcohol rather than the you actually being less drunk.
I train once a week in a Gi, not because I want to fight in Gi or get the skills but because the class fits pretty good in my time schedule and training grappling in a Gi is better then train less grappling, also I look pretty neat in that pyjama
@@johnbender5061seeing how much strength we use in Gi classes I doubt most modern clothes are able to take that level off stress, it would just tear off
As an exercise physiologist, your terminology and use of logic and science to make your arguments make me so happy. Why this is lost in most places that teach martial arts is beyond me
Another possible reason why most high-level no-gi competitors have trained in gi is because of how a lot of gyms structure their BJJ programmes. At the gym where I train, the beginner programme is gi-specific and that's the same for almost every BJJ school in my area.
Instructors: *forces every single student to do Gi first* "See?? All the good no-Gi players started out in Gi!" And then they get to justify continuing the cycle lol
But that's not true, the Gi introduces a whole new set of plays and variables into the game. Don't forget that BJJ got the Gi from Judokas, the founder of Judo (Jigoro Kano) was aware of catch wrestling's popularity at that time yet insisted on the Gi. I don't think it was coincidental
I cannot believe there are people who believed Gi is superior for self defense. Like you said... not everything has sleeves or strong ones, but most people got arms you can grab. I figured that out at like 14 years old that’s insane
I train I'm a gi and I know that myself. The Gi sucks. Unless a dudes wearing a jacket, I can't get anything from gi training - from a self defense point of view.
Much of the gi stuff works on a t-shirt, but bundling the fabric together for a gi like handle isn't widely taught nor intuitive so why emphasize it first? I think the BJJ focus on sleeve/collar as the first control position taught likely instills an over reliance on that jacket needed versus the more universal no jacket control of no gi. In my experience, we should reverse that teaching. No gi style first, then the jacket controls second. Plus, those gi grips tend to wreck people's fingers, so why start with totally new people using them?
I know, I never understood why it was so easy to sell GI BJJ as the ultimate self defense martial art and Labeling NO GI as an inferior MA that first work. Name recognition works wonders
The banning of submersion holds in wrestling in the early 20th century was the single most devastating thing to happen to the development of grappling. I blame the Olympics. I wonder what the martial arts world would look like if judo karate and taekwondo were never put in the Olympics
@@Jay-ho9io no judo is grappling. Wrestling here was obviously referring to western/european styles. Yes you CAN use the term wrestling as a synonym for all grappling but you also CAN call muay tai boxing, tai chi kickboxing and ceareal a soup. Judo also lost most/all of its ground game thanks to the Olympics
Lmao! Lately, you've been making me realize that I preferred Gi bjj because I was lazy... So I thought it was pretty hilarious when you said the bit about nerds using it as an excuse to not go to the gym 'cause I definitely do spend way too much time coding/gaming 😂 Great content as usual!
This is a great video. I am going to push back on the idea that diversifying training isn't as good as specific training. The weight lifting analogy you give is a good one. It's actually not true that if all I care about is my bench I should only train benches. If I only train benches, then I'm going to overtrain some muscles and undertrain others. This exact thing actually happened to me. I was working benches way too often because benches are fun. But I found that, as I increased weight, I got very unstable. And I even injured my elbow pretty badly. After talking with some people more experienced than me, I added in a number of auxiliary exercises. Those exercises take time away from training benches, sure. But they help build up all of the things I need to stabilize my bench and prevent injury. I think gi and no-gi jiu-jitsu is analogous. I find that when I train gi, that forces me to develop different skills and movements to add to my game. Then, when I go back to no-gi, I still have those skills. But I would never have developed them if I only trained no-gi. A good example of this is an arm bar. It's just easier to get an arm bar when playing gi than no-gi. So, I go for arm bars a lot more when I'm playing gi. That means I'm training most of the same body mechanics I need to do an arm-bar in no-gi. Having trained those body mechanics, I am now better able to catch arm bars when playing no-gi.
I had a coach tell me that my athleticism would disappear one day and that I shouldn’t use it as much. That really did some damage to my training because it was so hard to not use my athleticism when it made a lot of my training easier. Thank you for the good vid.
Neither is better for self defense. Both are needed if you really want to be prepared for anything. But just training in one is probably enough for the most part. Interesting points made in this video again
If the purpose of BJJ is self defense competence and competition is a way of testing yourself - than having a broad field of study is probably best. Gi /no-gi/strike-grappling ect. I think there is a big community in bjj who still intuitively assumes that selfdefense needs to be an implicit goal for all practitioners... Great content! I'm working my way through your videos right now :-D
I'm doing Gi BJJ rn. This video explains exactly why I'm going to switch to no-Gi BJJ after getting the hang of Gi (or at least do both at the same time). Both have their advantages, but doing only Gi feels incomplete for practical purposes.
Actually my instructor has made the argument that if you learn no gi it will make you better since if you can control someone without gi grips you will find it easier in gi since you now have more purchase. But when he said this it was more about improving general grappling skill rather than getting good at gi competitions.
I like and do both, but from some anecdotal experience I have found that I recognize "tools" in combatives training fairly well and attribute that to how I view the Gi. The Gi can be used offensively and defensively and is foreign to my own body, much like any other tool in a violent encounter. No-Gi encourages leglocks a lot more than Gi because the stupid IBJJF ruleset, so it has advantages in that regard as well as the scramble that you already mentioned. Great video.
so this is my take. I practice both, they are both great, but overall I prefer Gi training. I think Gi training is more fun overall, and its a little easier (and by that I mean it requires less raw strength), also I like spider guard a lot. I think from just a martial arts standpoint though, no-gi is more practical/useful hands down, anything you can do in no gi, you can do also with Gi and more. I find it to be A LOT more tiring and "hardcore" than Gi, its like fighting with a handicap so yeah its harder for sure. My take. Gi: More fun, less tiring, and more easy to find classes No-Gi: More practical, more difficult, more tiring, harder to find classes
You pointed out the exact one reason why Gi can be helpful in self defense. You should learn to break people's grips on your clothes. So exactly, put on a gi once in a while and just focus on grip breaking. Besides that, no gi is enough for self defense and arguably better.
But... why? Just train for your sport. If you're not going to be competing in a gi, why wear one when you train? If you're going to be shirtless in the ring, you can train shirtless too. And if you're training for self defense, train however you like. A trained practitioner will beat most opponents they'll face in the street whether or not they train gi.
@@mr.doctorcaptain1124 sorry, I maybe wasn't clear. I agree 100% with the statements in the video. He pointed out at some point that training in a jacket and still applying no gi techniques is the only thing where a gi can help you for self defense and I agree with that too. Always train specifically for your goals. And if self defense is your goal, knowing how to break people's grips on your clothes is a viable skill. I almost exclusively train no gi when grappling and once got in a friendly "fight" with a friend at a bbq, where we just wrestled a bit on the lawn. He's a judoka and immediately grabbed my belt and sleeves, which diminished some of my techniques and approaches. So yeah, since then once in a while I'll roll in a gi. I still use no gi techniques (grabbing wrists instead of sleeves for example), but focus a lot on breaking my opponent's grips, just to be able to do that in a self defense situation.
No-gi is more relevant for self-defense than gi. Learning to handle people in clothing alone is extremely important, no to mention all the other submissions and controls that come with using other people's clothing against them.
Bro your points were mine exactly when I trained judo as a teenager and I didn't see how it could translate to a real altercation. Gi vs no Gi makes a huge difference. Same as gloves vs bare knuckles :P
Well-spoken argument. It all depends what your goal is. For sport, you should train the modality that you plan to compete in (either or both). If training for self-defense, one should logically train both. I've hear the faulty argument by no-gi proponents that it more accurately reflects street clothes, but how many people wear shorts and a rash guard or t-shirt in the winter? Likewise, how many people wear jeans and a coat in the summer? And if you are training for self-defense, ONLY training jiujitsu, whether gi or no-gi and not training any kind of striking work is ALSO faulty. TLDR: for sport, train for specificity. For self-defense, be well-rounded.
In a broad sense, yes, in particular, if you only have time for 2-3 2h training sessions per week. Then it does make sense to only train specifically the main art you want to get good at, be it Gi or No-Gi, because the transferring additional benefit of the other art will not be significant enough to outweigh the abandoned time invested in your primary art. But if you have more time available, at some point there will be diminishing returns and the benefits of more time spent will increasingly get smaller and cross-over benefits of training something else can start to outweigh the smaller specific benefits. Also, training specificity is a more complex topic, because grappling is an activity that is composed of many different skills. And because you use all of those skills at the same time, they may be the limiting factor to improve in the skills respectively. I.e. your cardio development may be limited because you're not training enough at an aerobe pace but too much at an anaerobe pace due to the power output. So it can make sense to improve your general cardio by doing cardio-specific training which will cross over to your cardio in grappling. The same goes for your strength development, where specific strength training can make sense to improve your strength in grappling. And pointing out the "logical fallacies" of Gi-apologists not cross-training No-Gi in reverse doesn't invalidate their argument for the benefits of Gi-training for No-Gi players. It just shows their hypocrisy. The cross-over benefits from one training method to the other may very well still be there (and they are just missing out on the reverse benefits for them of No-Gi training). The respective arguments for improved training of escaping or control are still sound. So it may still make sense for No-Gi players to train in Gi (both) and mixed (one person Gi, one No-Gi).
I train at a gym that mainly focuses on gi, and we have a nogi week once a month for exactly the logic you mentioned in the beginning, lol. It's how you get good at control and many leg takedowns. Also, in the context of gi stuff for self defense, I think defense is more important than offense. You want that ability to strip grips.
Gi is good for self defense in places where cold climate conditions force people to wear winter clothes for many months of the year. It has its advantages in terms of controlling the aggressor and preserving energy. I think it's important to do both, unless you live a place that never gets cold. I would like to see an experienced no gi guy put on a gi for the first time and roll with a guy who has only done gi, and vice versa. Most people wear clothes when they fight, or they will take their shirts off to flex, and be more slippery. You are going to fight the way you train so learning both is important.
Thanks for saying do what you like because not enough people give permission to just enjoy themselves. Just like working out this shouldn't be punishment. I personally like gi training because being covered in sweat and body grime is icky so wearing a towel instead of ringworm is a nice feature.
The aspect of gi I like for self defense is the fact that you can use a hoodie to complete most gi chokes. I live in the PNW so it's pretty regular attire
I used to hate the gi because if I relied on just nogi grips/strategies I'd be worse off, but I've really come to appreciate the nuance difficulties between the two different rulesets. Still prefer nogi because I like escaping more than I like pinning, but both are fun :)
While this doesn’t have anything to say about the video itself, i wanted to reply to what you said about shoulder shrugs and deadlifts, because it may confuse people to know that people do actually train shoulder shrugs for their deadlift. You train shoulder shrugs to train your traps and grip strength, without taxing the recovery of your legs. If you train both squats and deadlifts, you won’t want to do so many deadlifts that your legs can’t recover, so you train some shrugs. Another reason is that you may have strong legs for whatever reason and weak traps and grip relative to your legs, so you get some extra training for those body parts with shrugs
True, that line of thinking is essentially the asterisk on the "training specificity" argument. There are indeed particular situations when you would want to train something slightly different. Although, like you said, it's pretty much only when you need to divide the thing you're doing into component parts to focus on a particular aspect. I suppose my comparison probably would have been stronger if I had switch deadlift and shoulder shrug in my example. Oh, well! Good catch, though!
It would be pretty interesting to view this argument through the lens of the book “range”; which hypothesizes that a wider array of experience in different disciplines gives you more tools and experiences to solve a problem. Except aikido, unless you’re attacked by a kite.
The concept is accurate within a range, but not outside of it. As an example of what I mean, you do not need to know any capoeira. The moves are a waste of energy and time (the strikes take longer to connect than mui Thai), so a capoeira training session is a waste of time as all it does is hinder your training. But likewise there's nothing wrong with learning new styles so long as you do what Bruce Lee advised. Keep what works, throw away the rest. But throwing it away means don't train that junk anymore. Which would include a gi
My instincts tell me that it would help with solving more broad problems. For example, learning Gi, no-Gi, wrestling, and Judo would help me learn and figure out Shuai Jiao very quickly. I would be great at solving new and novel grappling problems, but I wouldn't be as good at any single discipline as someone that only did that discipline. I guess it depends on whether you value broad problem solving abilities or competitive skill in a specific art.
This concept is primarily for developing child athletes, and less data is indicative of its applications for post-pubescent athletes,a lot of its supposed benefits are basically prehabilitation stuff, youth athletes who play a variety of sports pre-puberty, and then begin to specialize in a sport have been observed to typically be more successful at their specific sport with a lower propensity for injury, whilst being generally more athletic in general, but the inverse is true for people who attempt this as late teens or adults, lower rate of athletic performance, skill based specificity and a higher rate of injury. Its a cool concept, but its probably more important for parents of athletes to think about than current athletes.
@@nicholaskarras2759 I knew that diverse childhood athletics made you more generally athletic as an adult, but does the opposite really happen for adults? Do you have a source that adults doing a single sport is better? Or is it conjecture that we don't quite yet have the data on?
@@ArmchairViolence from my knowledge its a lack of data(that I know of, I'm sure someone has probably at least attempted to test it), but I've heard the conjecture from a few places; The general idea is that an increase in the number of different sports you do will inevitably lead to conflicting specific adaptations( a really basic example would be, within running, sprinting heavily relies on both the presence of Fast twitch muscle fibers and the aerobic energy system, wheras the long distance uses slow twitch and the aerobic system, training both of them concurrently limits the top end capacity of either), there is also stuff like an increase of variance of sports (and even sometimes within sports where you spend most of a train cycle working on novel exercises, say niche complexes in weightlifting) will lower the training volume of sports specific movements and musculature, these create biomechanical inefficiencies that will inevitably lead to a lowered performance and higher rate of injury(the less time you spend throwing a javelin, the worse your technique, the worse your technique the greater it will tax your body and the greater chance of injury, and if you are already taxed from another sport this gets worse), this is more apparent between multiple diciplines that don't guarantee returns in different sports, for example archery would yield little to no specific skill based or muscular improvements to a cyclist, but the taxation of the musculature and CNS would impede on the training volume and quality of your cycling endeavors. There are obviously examples where this isn't necessarily the case, getting a very good snatch or clean and jerk, will give you phenomenal power in your triple extension universally in any sport, and triple extension is arguably the most important point of force production for most sports, so you'd be hard pressed to say its a detriment to your say sprawl in a wrestling scenario. But the idea is more that the strain on your CNS and muscles, conflicting specific adaptations, your lower rate of recovery as an older athlete, and your inability to focus on specificity within a specific sport if you dedicate a significant amount of time to multiple sports are relatively the same intensity leads to overall worse performance metrics in both sports. Now again to my knowledge its currently a conjecture, but I wouldn't be suprised if this is a proven phenomena, I just haven't looked into it enough to be certain, but I've heard it from people whom I personally believe are credible sources.
I feel that to get the broadest possible view of the art you should train both ! 🙂 I love both for different reasons and both will add to your fighting ability All down to preference though
I think your suggestion that good self-defense training would be you wherrying gi or some other type of sturdy grabbable close, and your opponent does not makes a lot of sense. Kind of puts your in a worst case situation. You kind of have all the disadvantages of gi, without the benefits. You have to deal with disadvantage of someone grabbing your closes, while not being able to grad others. And the thing is you could actually switch it up, so that sometimes you are fighting the know gi person so you know about the possibility of close grips, without depending on them because of the times your opponent is not wearing gi. In general though, I think what might make the most sense is self defense classes where your try out different types of street close. Jackets, shorts, jeans, and just the different general combination you might have to fight in or fight someone in. Though of course, that is assuming someone has the time. But I think its and interesting thought exercise, thinking what get ups most approximate real world situations. Which is tough to answer, because they are real world situations, meaning they are close to infinate possibilities.
He actually left out one of the most important variable when it comes to if someone should train gear no gee and I think it's motivated me to make a video on it because realistically I feel he left out without a shout of a doubt the most important factor on if you should train gear or no gear and it has absolutely nothing to do with your goals.
@@christophervelez1561 no that's not really it you're kind of there but not really there it has more to do with learning he escapes first. You should always learn escapes first because if you learn those first you're going to have more fun sooner and it's easier to learn escapes and no key or I should say it's harder to hold someone down in nogi so you will have more fun and no GI as a beginner sooner than you would as a beginner in the ghee because in it you're going to be held down more it's easier to hold someone down in it. I also think it's a lot easier for new people to pick it up in nogi because you can see what you're doing easier when you have the key on that's another layer you have between you and the other person making it even harder for a new person to get their bearings on what they're doing and understand the connections they need to make where to grab in those type of things when you can actually see it it's a little easier. Personally I think this is without a shot of a doubt the only thing that really matters for new people because as we all know like 90% of new people never come back after the first week and I think the only thing that matters yes truly the only thing that matters someone's first entire month is making sure they come back through the door. So that definitely means pretty much not wearing the ghee unless you're absolutely confident they're not going to quit because they're getting crushed and having a harder time escaping also I'm using voice to text transcription here so this is going to be very long and have some spelling mistakes. You make some good points but realistically at the end of the day I think none of that matters because the only thing that should really matter is making sure they keep coming back now once you're over that threshold that's a different conversation
@2:25 - you're right, it is rare for prominent BJJ people to advocate no gi in order to learn proper positioning and control. It shouldn't be though. Ryan Hall is a noteworthy exception. He advocates both No-Gi and wrestling, to primarily gi competitors, for that reason. I don't know for certain, but I'd be rather surprised if John Danaher doesn't advocate the same thing as well.
For “self-defense” do both. If just one of the other, do that plus situational sparring/training (or gamification by customizing the rules of your grappling). Conventionally, gi will slow things down and so help with some movement development early on. And no-gi will speed things up and make them slippery, helping with reacting. Both have their cons too so… just do what you like and need, and supplement however is most fun for you (because you are more likely to actually do that and do it well).
I prefer no gi. Rolling with a gi is just too much grip fighting and it makes my fingers ache. Unfortunately, there are no no gi classes where I live. All yes gi.
Recently found your channel. I thoroughly enjoy your content. You’re funny as hell, and you deliver logical and well thought out arguments. That said, your critique of Dean Lister, a three time ADCC champion, one of the most innovative jiu jitsu players and arguably the pioneer of leg locks in the no-gi game at the global stage, is misplaced. I’m not saying this to defend Lister or simply taking his position due to his pedigree. You are seemingly concluding that the absence of qualitative and quantitative evidence that establishes that training in gi can appreciably improve no-gi performance more than putting all the same effort into training only no-gi proves that training gi does not improve performance in no-gi were the latter trained exclusively, all other variables being the same. On paper everything you said makes sense, but I think most serious nogi players will tell you, this isn’t true. If you need a break down on this, just listen to Gordon Ryan and John Danaher’s rationale. Gordon got into gi when he was already the best in the world in nogi for the explicit purpose of sharpening his nogi game. In my experience on a much more humble competition stage, it is because the gi (1) slows everything down enough against a similarly skilled training partner and (2) allows significantly stronger attachments and grips, that it assists in developing and refining newer techniques and body positioning/pressure that would have failed , and therefore prematurely discarded, if I trained nogi alone. Most major innovations in modern jiujitsu first came on the scene in gi, and only subsequently in no-gi, despite the latter oftentimes having more liberal rulesets.
Ok here is my crack at it. First off I am a huge fan of your videos and nuanced arguments but this is for the sake of engagement and pumping this video up into the algorithm! I would argue that it is important to train both gi and no gi. I’m not necessarily a gi purist. I’ve always done both. I agree gi is easier to control thus making it easier to hold positions. I do need to train my passing to be more methodical. Take a knee cut for instance. If there is the gi I can hold my opponents knee and leg way more effectively because of the friction of the material vs a sweaty leg. I think that no gi makes my passing and attacks more accurate than in the gi. Going back to your argument on how no gi encourages scrambling I’d say that understanding of scrambling would make me a better player because scrambles happen in gi matches all the time. I think the biggest argument is the need to be a complete bjj athlete, and coach. I think that in order to be a bjj player it is important to have exposure and understanding of all things under the umbrella of bjj to be complete. How can I be a bjj coach and not be proficient in both gi and no gi. In takedowns and guard pulling. In passing and guard playing. In holds and escapes. In doing self defense role playing and actually training (clearly a joke) etc. The benefits of training both is that one complements the other. Of course you can still have your same preferences and your game but it is important to learn, and understand the whole system. I also personally think that new people saying they prefer one over the other may miss out on the experience of the other which they may love. Anyway l can’t wait for your next video and was wondering if you’d do a breakdown on your specific bjj game in a future video.
I do both Gi and no Gi. It’s better to understand what works on regular clothes and what work from Gi and pull that over to no Gi. But I’d prefer to learn no Gi moves.
I support Gis for the main reason that you know what your students are going to wear, so you don't have to worry about torn t-shirts and so on. And they are durable for when you practice take downs for situations when someone grabs your clothing. No, I have to say like Gis in class.
I advocate learning topcontrol without the gi even if you want to practice gi. Many of the subtle adjustments you do in nogi is applicable in gi - and once you get the grips - you'll be better of :-) I like gi better. that's because - judo throws. but also - I'm old and lazy😅
I like the gi because I'm a history major and I want a bit more authenticity in my martial arts and training no-gi feels more like I'm just doing MMA, which I'm not interested in despite the fact I want to learn multiple styles.
I agree mostly but there are certain techniques in Gi -bjj that can be useful in self defense like the cross coller choke and if you live in a really cold State or country gi becomes Valuable but mostly train no-gi
I like both. Gi really helps me out to be more technical at escapes esspecially armbar escape. And no gi did help me to be better at controlling with my legs and my whole upperbody instead of rellying on the gi. Also you are using The principle of specificity of training badly. If no gi dosen't make my grip strength and pulling power stronger that dosen't mean having stronger grip strength and pulling power isn't an advantage. Or dead lifting. Bjj dosen't made my back stronger. But doing dead lift definitely made my bjj top pressure better. And even more technical bc i worked hard to learn how to controll my hip against pressure while in bjj classes from the top my hip was just a stone i was dragging with my legs...
I've trained in gi and nogi and realized they they are both their own style. Alot of the same moves but you do things completely different. When I went to gi after nogi I found that doing certain moves was pointless
I’ve only recently become interested in grappling arts and, as the video developed, I came to the same conclusions before they we’re mentioned. I’m more interested in learning no Gi wrestling & bjj for self defense & fitness so learning to grab something as easy as a Gi would be detrimental for me to grapple people wearing weak T-Shirts or easily removable jackets. I would also say that training to grab sturdy clothes isn’t as important because grabbing clothes is easier than maintaining a hold of sweaty wrists or necks. The point being that even an amateur can come to the same conclusions on logic alone so its ridiculous these arguments still exist.
The original reason they trained in a gi is because that's what they were going to wear on the battle field under their armor. Outside the dojo they trained in a gi with full armor over it and wooden swords. That's the real reason. It was common clothing in feudal Japan.
Well, yeah, for the specific aspect of no gi conpetition, its not necesary, same with practicing for mma... You will not get an oponent in a gi fighting in mma... Its like learning taekwondo to be better at boxing... The overlap is not big enough for that... However, i would say doing both is always gonna be better than doing one alone for a well rounded training, and that the gi grips actually strengthten your fingers and tendons for tighter grips even for no gi, but you cang et that last part by doing towell pullups... So... I dont see the need if truly you only want to compete in no gi or any style that doesnt have a gi... Hell, even sumo wrestling would be better for no gi than gi bjj(sumo has ankle picks, armdrags, armlocks, underhooks, overhooks, headlocks, about 40 no gi throws that are done in the same ways of wrestling, etc) if You wanna practice the standup aspect of no gi, its even better than wrestling, because you will spend 0 time on the ground and all the time defending amd attacking for takedowns... Now, would i say sumo is necesary for no gi bjj competition? Hell no, that would make no sense... Altho, it would be fun to see a bunch of bjj guys do sumo for like a month and see how their takedown game changes
I always thought it was weird to wear a gi with a belt while training, while I would never ever wear anything like that in real life. Not even my winter jacket comes close to what a gi is like when it comes to grips and collar chokes. If anything I should be wearing scrubs and stethoscope.
I like oldschool jitz a lot more, and no gi "meta" has a lot more wizardry. I think this is a big part of why I prefer gi, tho my gym does one week of nogi per month, which usually focuses on top game. I find that that's a pretty ideal setup for me.
Hi ! I've allways been a good striker ....now I would like to add some ground defence but I cant hurt my fingers (I teach guitar!), and I don't whant a curliflower ear. It's better going for no Gi or Gi...??? Thanks! Your video are very usefull ! Cheers.
It depends on what you are training it for! If you're training for MMA, no-Gi is pretty obviously better. If you're just doing it as a hobby, it's just down to what you enjoy more. However, I will say that finger injuries tend to be a bit more common in Gi, because your finger can get trapped in the fabric. I do almost exclusively no-Gi, and I haven't noticed many finger injuries at all. At least not when compared with other types of injuries. Cauliflower ear, however, can happen in both Gi and no-Gi. But less intense training means that you're less likely to get it. Plus, you can wear wrestling headgear to decrease the likelihood of cauliflower ear.
You are sooo logical - impressive. We listen and should not disrespect youth. As the bible says (1 Tim 4)»Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.»
I agree with most if not all the points that you make in this video, however I do believe that the small video inserts with Dean are inserted in a way that distorts the message that he's trying to convey. I do not think anything that he says really directly contradicts the message of your video.
In my opinion, gi and nogi should be very similar. Using good jiujitsu technique (Gracie Filter) implies that your total control isn't reliant on just one thing, like grips. It's a combination of the Four Fundamental elements.
In Karate it doesn't matter if you wear a Gi or not. When there is a techniwue where you grab your opponent you always grab as if there was no Gi. You grab the wrist and not the sleeve. Always. No matter if you wear a Gi or not.
My understanding is that gi teaches you defending, while nogi teaches you attacking. If I had to pick one, I'd choose nogi because it will work in gi as well. Also, under pressure we tend to use gross motor movements i.e. nogi. Bonus: I hate gaming the system in gi with all the lapel bullshit like worm guards etc.
I find the GI infuriating. Due to my schedule I probably train in it 30% - 40% of the time. There is merit in dealing with grips, and escapes no doubt. My issue is when the instructor has us drill techniques that I can only apply 50% of the time. In the 5 years I've trained I don't think I"ve ever hit a GI submission. I think I almost have the bow and arrow choke down, but again, by the time I'm in said position and in a GI I forget a detail or two and just go for the back take. There are way too many techniques in No-GI alone that I would rather refine as opposed to learning something that depends on the attire my opponent is wearing. When it comes to striking I can at least try not to rely on the high guard as it's less effective with small/no gloves.
I don’t train gi to get better better at no gi bjj. I train it because it’s funny to put people on their head with Judo moves they don’t have a prayer of countering.
Completely off topic, but that martin Ford vs iranian hulk thingy happening, probably in mma, how do you think the hulk guy beats Martin Ford? Man seems like he can barely move lol
Yeah, Iranian Hulk is younger, but Ford looks more cut, more nimble, and is 6 inches taller. Plus, he's done BJJ, and I can't find evidence that Hulk has done anything besides hit a bag. Even though he's 9 years old, Ford looks like he's going to be faster and more experienced. Also, I can't imagine that Hulk has great cardio. He looks like he would gas out going up a flight of stairs. But it's always hard to tell what will happen when neither person has fought before. Ford might end up having an awful chin or crumble under the pressure. That being said, the only way I see Hulk winning is if Ford basically stands in front of him and starts eating shots.
@@ArmchairViolence yeah, the fact that those two have never fought before is a apart of the appeal. The rest of it is it being a wwe style freak show.. I think martin also trained some kickboxing for his undisputed 4 role.. through I’m not sure. Couldn’t find much there. Thanks for your input though:)
For the average BJJ hobbyist, training both will make you better overall and more well rounded. But if you want to compete with Gordon Ryan, you should hyper focus on the skills needed to compete with Gordon Ryan. 🤷♂️
The main benefit, I would think of training gi would be to learn how to grapple people with their clothes, which seems like a useful skill to add to one's self-defense repertoire in addition to everything else
I've put a lot of time and resources/money (aka time in other forms) into getting stronk, people who've been in grappling/BJJ longer have put much of that same time into getting better technique. One may argue I misallocated my resources and should have started training grappling sooner, however, I believe that being athletic is a worthwhile pursuit in general and that it's more useful overall for most self-defense scenarios than ANY martial art or skill set. I think someone using their athleticism/fitness to do better in martial arts and fights is no more unreasonable than a High IQ person using their intellect to be a better fighter or win fights with less effort through their better cognition and quicker understanding of concepts while more efficiently learning and applying techniques and principles. TL;DR Strong hulk man slam smash puny nerdy smarty boy.
I have scarcely --if ever-- seen a Brazilian Jiu jitsu school that didn't offer at least one day of no gi training per week. So, it's not really "gi vs no gi" so much as "gi & some no gi" vs "no gi only". That's the more typical breakdown among BJJ schools. Because, traditionally, no gi is a PART of BJJ training. There are plenty of "no gi" only schools but "gi ONLY" schools are really just not common. (Gi focused? Yes. Gi only? No). At a gi-focused school, you will STILL usually have students training at least some no gi as well. If you only have done one, at some point you (i.e. "everyone") should really give the other a shot as well. It's pretty common for people to fall in love the "other" style, once they try it.
@@katokianimation fuck olyjudo. Nothing in O-sensei Kano's curriculum said you couldn't attach the legs. And you can hit all kinds of trips and sweeps without a gi. Just like in freestyle.
Reason I like gi I feel cool in it and grip better people not sliding everywhere because of sweat on the mat. Reason I like no gi it’s not as hot and it’s more freeing. I do both and i say do whatever you like doing more
want grip strength? do climbing. i do climbing, i can hold my whole weight with one hand on a more or less dubious hold. if you wanna strip my grip without indirect tricks like finger or wrist manipulation, but using leverage, brute strength and other type of direct force applications, you need to generate on my arm the same force you would need to lift me. it's as simple as that. suffice to say, in judo or jujitsu, i literally never got my grip striped by any kind of direct force. even in things like me doing a last hope armbar defense by grabbing my own gi when locked in place, people who could only use strength didn't manage to break my grip. and i'm not an elite climber, not even a competitive climber. actually, i'm seriously lazy when it comes to my climbing practice, but climbing just makes your grip strong and versatile. who got the better grip? the guy used to people yanking on his arm when he's grabbing them? or the guy used to hanging his whole weight on 3 fingers?
Yeah I think self defense wise a balance of gi and no gi is best because you need to not depend on the gi but should probably learn how to use your enemies clothes to your advantage
@ 2:30 - Actually plenty of people at my school, including the head instructor, have promoted using no-Gi as a way to improve speed and learning to control the opponent @ 3:00 - that's a poor example. People can improve their deadlifts by working solely on squats, rows, and weighted chins (I've even tried it myself).
I do love gi bjj, even more than no gi. (this is my own opinion so no need to critique) But i don’t believe that you gain real benefit from gi bjj than no gi. I don’t just do bjj for self defense, i do it for fun. that’s why i do gi
I wanted to train Catch Wrestling. But it's impossible to find a gym. So I started doing NoGi BJJ and just call it "NoPin Catch". (it's literally the same) All of the BJJ people get pissed off when I tell them that... lol But why did I do this? I just think all of the fluff around BJJ is cringe. Like the gi and colorful belts... Like the "you so strong bro" and "position before submission"... Like the "bjj is for weak people" and "technique over athleticism"... All of this mystical crap is cringe af. Grappling is grappling. And BJJ is the strongest at only one thing = marketing!
I think the gi vs nogi question is simple: Why was the gi invented? What is the purpose of a gi? Once you answer those two, you'll soon realize still training in a gi is akin to fencing. Can you use a sword to defend yourself against another person with a sword? Sure you can... Now tell me when the fuck are you in a situation in which someone is attacking you with a sword? A gi only makes sense if most people wear suits. The days of the suit being an everyday outfit are long gone, and I think the gi's days are numbered. In my lifetime, the gi is going away. The 2022 ADCC World Championship just took place to a fucking packed arena. I've never seen a crowd like that for any gi shit. Gi jiu-jitsu will never be a spectator sport. I've trained a lot in the gi, and I'd rather watch paint dry than watch an IBJJF match where two guys are just tugging at their clothes to get some sort of "advantage" instead of trying to submit each other.
I think you take the principle of specificity too far. Training in an environment close to the specific context you want to improve at can absolutely be the best way to ensure that you have a well rounded understanding of that context but that doesn't mean it's always the best or even a viable way to train if you have a specific goal in mind. As an example strength generally and grip strength in particular is absolutely essential for grappling and might well bottleneck your technical understanding of grappling. Grappling on it's own will not improve your strength as quickly or as directly as dedicated strength training will. Even if you had the capacity to do more grappling training for most people there comes a point of diminishing returns where individual aspects of yourself are better targeted by focused training outside of a sports specific context even if that compromises their ability to train more grappling. I could potentially see cardio being the exception here but honestly I think the tradeoff for doing a single HIIT or anaerobic training session a week probably comes out against more sparring as well for dedicated athlete even it had the same recovery tradeoff. I'm not defending the religious fanaticism around gi's though. If you only care about no gi competitions you're very rapidly going to hit the point of diminishing returns on transferable knowledge. For self defence it's almost certainly worth having a working knowledge of both.
My crippling alcoholism was accquired through years of training and experience so that's going right on the resume.
Holy crap, I think "alcohol tolerance" might technically be a skill
I don't like this knowledge lol
@@ArmchairViolence It is definitely a skill, especially when you consider most of being able to hold your drink actually comes down you learning to cope with the effects of alcohol rather than the you actually being less drunk.
@@locky7443 especially because alcohol is a rare drug in that you do NOT build a tolerance to it.
@@mr.doctorcaptain1124 exactly
@@ArmchairViolenceskills are just useful habits
I train once a week in a Gi, not because I want to fight in Gi or get the skills but because the class fits pretty good in my time schedule and training grappling in a Gi is better then train less grappling, also I look pretty neat in that pyjama
Being able to get grips off your clothes is vital for street fights
@@johnbender5061 just punch them in the face
@@johnbender5061seeing how much strength we use in Gi classes I doubt most modern clothes are able to take that level off stress, it would just tear off
As an exercise physiologist, your terminology and use of logic and science to make your arguments make me so happy. Why this is lost in most places that teach martial arts is beyond me
Another possible reason why most high-level no-gi competitors have trained in gi is because of how a lot of gyms structure their BJJ programmes. At the gym where I train, the beginner programme is gi-specific and that's the same for almost every BJJ school in my area.
Instructors: *forces every single student to do Gi first*
"See?? All the good no-Gi players started out in Gi!"
And then they get to justify continuing the cycle lol
lol 😂. I started with no gi and wrestling! I just started gi back in August
“Learn how to defend against Grips and attack using no grips”. I like that approach. Thanks 🙏🏾
Eddie bravo once said "when you're training with a gi, you're actually training no gi just with a gi on"
That sounds like him.
But that's not true, the Gi introduces a whole new set of plays and variables into the game. Don't forget that BJJ got the Gi from Judokas, the founder of Judo (Jigoro Kano) was aware of catch wrestling's popularity at that time yet insisted on the Gi. I don't think it was coincidental
I cannot believe there are people who believed Gi is superior for self defense. Like you said... not everything has sleeves or strong ones, but most people got arms you can grab. I figured that out at like 14 years old that’s insane
I train I'm a gi and I know that myself. The Gi sucks. Unless a dudes wearing a jacket, I can't get anything from gi training - from a self defense point of view.
Much of the gi stuff works on a t-shirt, but bundling the fabric together for a gi like handle isn't widely taught nor intuitive so why emphasize it first?
I think the BJJ focus on sleeve/collar as the first control position taught likely instills an over reliance on that jacket needed versus the more universal no jacket control of no gi.
In my experience, we should reverse that teaching. No gi style first, then the jacket controls second. Plus, those gi grips tend to wreck people's fingers, so why start with totally new people using them?
I know, I never understood why it was so easy to sell GI BJJ as the ultimate self defense martial art and Labeling NO GI as an inferior MA that first work.
Name recognition works wonders
@bruhinthewild you know you can still grab their arms even in a gi, right? Nobody is forcing you to grip the cloth.
@@pakuma3because Gi bjj has the same options as no gi, and even more.
The banning of submersion holds in wrestling in the early 20th century was the single most devastating thing to happen to the development of grappling. I blame the Olympics. I wonder what the martial arts world would look like if judo karate and taekwondo were never put in the Olympics
Judo IS wrestling. With subs and pajamas.
@@Jay-ho9io no judo is grappling. Wrestling here was obviously referring to western/european styles.
Yes you CAN use the term wrestling as a synonym for all grappling but you also CAN call muay tai boxing, tai chi kickboxing and ceareal a soup.
Judo also lost most/all of its ground game thanks to the Olympics
@@holywaterbottle3175 Nah, Judo is wrestling with subs and pajamas.
I said what I said.
Though you're right about the Olympics watering it down.
@@Jay-ho9io next time you order soup at a restaurant i hope you get kellogs frosted flakes in water
@@holywaterbottle3175 best response possible
Literally one of the best MA channels around cause u answer the questions that everyone has, keep it up👍👍
Lmao! Lately, you've been making me realize that I preferred Gi bjj because I was lazy...
So I thought it was pretty hilarious when you said the bit about nerds using it as an excuse to not go to the gym 'cause I definitely do spend way too much time coding/gaming 😂
Great content as usual!
This is a great video. I am going to push back on the idea that diversifying training isn't as good as specific training. The weight lifting analogy you give is a good one. It's actually not true that if all I care about is my bench I should only train benches. If I only train benches, then I'm going to overtrain some muscles and undertrain others. This exact thing actually happened to me. I was working benches way too often because benches are fun. But I found that, as I increased weight, I got very unstable. And I even injured my elbow pretty badly. After talking with some people more experienced than me, I added in a number of auxiliary exercises. Those exercises take time away from training benches, sure. But they help build up all of the things I need to stabilize my bench and prevent injury.
I think gi and no-gi jiu-jitsu is analogous. I find that when I train gi, that forces me to develop different skills and movements to add to my game. Then, when I go back to no-gi, I still have those skills. But I would never have developed them if I only trained no-gi. A good example of this is an arm bar. It's just easier to get an arm bar when playing gi than no-gi. So, I go for arm bars a lot more when I'm playing gi. That means I'm training most of the same body mechanics I need to do an arm-bar in no-gi. Having trained those body mechanics, I am now better able to catch arm bars when playing no-gi.
I had a coach tell me that my athleticism would disappear one day and that I shouldn’t use it as much. That really did some damage to my training because it was so hard to not use my athleticism when it made a lot of my training easier. Thank you for the good vid.
Neither is better for self defense. Both are needed if you really want to be prepared for anything. But just training in one is probably enough for the most part.
Interesting points made in this video again
If it’s hot outside No-Gi, if it’s cold train Gi
If the purpose of BJJ is self defense competence and competition is a way of testing yourself - than having a broad field of study is probably best. Gi /no-gi/strike-grappling ect.
I think there is a big community in bjj who still intuitively assumes that selfdefense needs to be an implicit goal for all practitioners...
Great content! I'm working my way through your videos right now :-D
Love your videos. Please never stop making them
I'm doing Gi BJJ rn. This video explains exactly why I'm going to switch to no-Gi BJJ after getting the hang of Gi (or at least do both at the same time). Both have their advantages, but doing only Gi feels incomplete for practical purposes.
Actually my instructor has made the argument that if you learn no gi it will make you better since if you can control someone without gi grips you will find it easier in gi since you now have more purchase. But when he said this it was more about improving general grappling skill rather than getting good at gi competitions.
Thank you for articulating this so well
This was great. I find everything in this video amazing advice for mma/bjj practitioners !
Completely unrelated to your video but I absolutely love your little song at the end of each video I love that little song it’s Hysterical
I like and do both, but from some anecdotal experience I have found that I recognize "tools" in combatives training fairly well and attribute that to how I view the Gi. The Gi can be used offensively and defensively and is foreign to my own body, much like any other tool in a violent encounter. No-Gi encourages leglocks a lot more than Gi because the stupid IBJJF ruleset, so it has advantages in that regard as well as the scramble that you already mentioned. Great video.
so this is my take. I practice both, they are both great, but overall I prefer Gi training. I think Gi training is more fun overall, and its a little easier (and by that I mean it requires less raw strength), also I like spider guard a lot.
I think from just a martial arts standpoint though, no-gi is more practical/useful hands down, anything you can do in no gi, you can do also with Gi and more. I find it to be A LOT more tiring and "hardcore" than Gi, its like fighting with a handicap so yeah its harder for sure.
My take.
Gi: More fun, less tiring, and more easy to find classes
No-Gi: More practical, more difficult, more tiring, harder to find classes
good points. great video. keep it up
You pointed out the exact one reason why Gi can be helpful in self defense. You should learn to break people's grips on your clothes. So exactly, put on a gi once in a while and just focus on grip breaking. Besides that, no gi is enough for self defense and arguably better.
But... why? Just train for your sport. If you're not going to be competing in a gi, why wear one when you train? If you're going to be shirtless in the ring, you can train shirtless too.
And if you're training for self defense, train however you like. A trained practitioner will beat most opponents they'll face in the street whether or not they train gi.
@@mr.doctorcaptain1124 sorry, I maybe wasn't clear. I agree 100% with the statements in the video. He pointed out at some point that training in a jacket and still applying no gi techniques is the only thing where a gi can help you for self defense and I agree with that too. Always train specifically for your goals. And if self defense is your goal, knowing how to break people's grips on your clothes is a viable skill. I almost exclusively train no gi when grappling and once got in a friendly "fight" with a friend at a bbq, where we just wrestled a bit on the lawn. He's a judoka and immediately grabbed my belt and sleeves, which diminished some of my techniques and approaches. So yeah, since then once in a while I'll roll in a gi. I still use no gi techniques (grabbing wrists instead of sleeves for example), but focus a lot on breaking my opponent's grips, just to be able to do that in a self defense situation.
No-gi is more relevant for self-defense than gi. Learning to handle people in clothing alone is extremely important, no to mention all the other submissions and controls that come with using other people's clothing against them.
Bro your points were mine exactly when I trained judo as a teenager and I didn't see how it could translate to a real altercation. Gi vs no Gi makes a huge difference.
Same as gloves vs bare knuckles :P
Well-spoken argument. It all depends what your goal is. For sport, you should train the modality that you plan to compete in (either or both).
If training for self-defense, one should logically train both. I've hear the faulty argument by no-gi proponents that it more accurately reflects street clothes, but how many people wear shorts and a rash guard or t-shirt in the winter? Likewise, how many people wear jeans and a coat in the summer? And if you are training for self-defense, ONLY training jiujitsu, whether gi or no-gi and not training any kind of striking work is ALSO faulty.
TLDR: for sport, train for specificity. For self-defense, be well-rounded.
Major new fan. We think very similarly.
In a broad sense, yes, in particular, if you only have time for 2-3 2h training sessions per week. Then it does make sense to only train specifically the main art you want to get good at, be it Gi or No-Gi, because the transferring additional benefit of the other art will not be significant enough to outweigh the abandoned time invested in your primary art. But if you have more time available, at some point there will be diminishing returns and the benefits of more time spent will increasingly get smaller and cross-over benefits of training something else can start to outweigh the smaller specific benefits.
Also, training specificity is a more complex topic, because grappling is an activity that is composed of many different skills. And because you use all of those skills at the same time, they may be the limiting factor to improve in the skills respectively. I.e. your cardio development may be limited because you're not training enough at an aerobe pace but too much at an anaerobe pace due to the power output. So it can make sense to improve your general cardio by doing cardio-specific training which will cross over to your cardio in grappling. The same goes for your strength development, where specific strength training can make sense to improve your strength in grappling.
And pointing out the "logical fallacies" of Gi-apologists not cross-training No-Gi in reverse doesn't invalidate their argument for the benefits of Gi-training for No-Gi players. It just shows their hypocrisy. The cross-over benefits from one training method to the other may very well still be there (and they are just missing out on the reverse benefits for them of No-Gi training). The respective arguments for improved training of escaping or control are still sound. So it may still make sense for No-Gi players to train in Gi (both) and mixed (one person Gi, one No-Gi).
I train at a gym that mainly focuses on gi, and we have a nogi week once a month for exactly the logic you mentioned in the beginning, lol.
It's how you get good at control and many leg takedowns.
Also, in the context of gi stuff for self defense, I think defense is more important than offense. You want that ability to strip grips.
Just train both. We alternate every day between gi and no gi at my school.
Gi is good for self defense in places where cold climate conditions force people to wear winter clothes for many months of the year. It has its advantages in terms of controlling the aggressor and preserving energy. I think it's important to do both, unless you live a place that never gets cold. I would like to see an experienced no gi guy put on a gi for the first time and roll with a guy who has only done gi, and vice versa. Most people wear clothes when they fight, or they will take their shirts off to flex, and be more slippery. You are going to fight the way you train so learning both is important.
Thanks for saying do what you like because not enough people give permission to just enjoy themselves. Just like working out this shouldn't be punishment.
I personally like gi training because being covered in sweat and body grime is icky so wearing a towel instead of ringworm is a nice feature.
The aspect of gi I like for self defense is the fact that you can use a hoodie to complete most gi chokes. I live in the PNW so it's pretty regular attire
I used to hate the gi because if I relied on just nogi grips/strategies I'd be worse off, but I've really come to appreciate the nuance difficulties between the two different rulesets. Still prefer nogi because I like escaping more than I like pinning, but both are fun :)
This video is great
While this doesn’t have anything to say about the video itself, i wanted to reply to what you said about shoulder shrugs and deadlifts, because it may confuse people to know that people do actually train shoulder shrugs for their deadlift.
You train shoulder shrugs to train your traps and grip strength, without taxing the recovery of your legs. If you train both squats and deadlifts, you won’t want to do so many deadlifts that your legs can’t recover, so you train some shrugs.
Another reason is that you may have strong legs for whatever reason and weak traps and grip relative to your legs, so you get some extra training for those body parts with shrugs
True, that line of thinking is essentially the asterisk on the "training specificity" argument. There are indeed particular situations when you would want to train something slightly different. Although, like you said, it's pretty much only when you need to divide the thing you're doing into component parts to focus on a particular aspect.
I suppose my comparison probably would have been stronger if I had switch deadlift and shoulder shrug in my example. Oh, well!
Good catch, though!
As a paramedic I dread the day I am in a jacket and my attacker is naked and greased up with urine and feces
It would be pretty interesting to view this argument through the lens of the book “range”; which hypothesizes that a wider array of experience in different disciplines gives you more tools and experiences to solve a problem.
Except aikido, unless you’re attacked by a kite.
The concept is accurate within a range, but not outside of it.
As an example of what I mean, you do not need to know any capoeira. The moves are a waste of energy and time (the strikes take longer to connect than mui Thai), so a capoeira training session is a waste of time as all it does is hinder your training.
But likewise there's nothing wrong with learning new styles so long as you do what Bruce Lee advised. Keep what works, throw away the rest. But throwing it away means don't train that junk anymore. Which would include a gi
My instincts tell me that it would help with solving more broad problems.
For example, learning Gi, no-Gi, wrestling, and Judo would help me learn and figure out Shuai Jiao very quickly. I would be great at solving new and novel grappling problems, but I wouldn't be as good at any single discipline as someone that only did that discipline.
I guess it depends on whether you value broad problem solving abilities or competitive skill in a specific art.
This concept is primarily for developing child athletes, and less data is indicative of its applications for post-pubescent athletes,a lot of its supposed benefits are basically prehabilitation stuff, youth athletes who play a variety of sports pre-puberty, and then begin to specialize in a sport have been observed to typically be more successful at their specific sport with a lower propensity for injury, whilst being generally more athletic in general, but the inverse is true for people who attempt this as late teens or adults, lower rate of athletic performance, skill based specificity and a higher rate of injury.
Its a cool concept, but its probably more important for parents of athletes to think about than current athletes.
@@nicholaskarras2759 I knew that diverse childhood athletics made you more generally athletic as an adult, but does the opposite really happen for adults? Do you have a source that adults doing a single sport is better? Or is it conjecture that we don't quite yet have the data on?
@@ArmchairViolence from my knowledge its a lack of data(that I know of, I'm sure someone has probably at least attempted to test it), but I've heard the conjecture from a few places; The general idea is that an increase in the number of different sports you do will inevitably lead to conflicting specific adaptations( a really basic example would be, within running, sprinting heavily relies on both the presence of Fast twitch muscle fibers and the aerobic energy system, wheras the long distance uses slow twitch and the aerobic system, training both of them concurrently limits the top end capacity of either), there is also stuff like an increase of variance of sports (and even sometimes within sports where you spend most of a train cycle working on novel exercises, say niche complexes in weightlifting) will lower the training volume of sports specific movements and musculature, these create biomechanical inefficiencies that will inevitably lead to a lowered performance and higher rate of injury(the less time you spend throwing a javelin, the worse your technique, the worse your technique the greater it will tax your body and the greater chance of injury, and if you are already taxed from another sport this gets worse), this is more apparent between multiple diciplines that don't guarantee returns in different sports, for example archery would yield little to no specific skill based or muscular improvements to a cyclist, but the taxation of the musculature and CNS would impede on the training volume and quality of your cycling endeavors.
There are obviously examples where this isn't necessarily the case, getting a very good snatch or clean and jerk, will give you phenomenal power in your triple extension universally in any sport, and triple extension is arguably the most important point of force production for most sports, so you'd be hard pressed to say its a detriment to your say sprawl in a wrestling scenario. But the idea is more that the strain on your CNS and muscles, conflicting specific adaptations, your lower rate of recovery as an older athlete, and your inability to focus on specificity within a specific sport if you dedicate a significant amount of time to multiple sports are relatively the same intensity leads to overall worse performance metrics in both sports.
Now again to my knowledge its currently a conjecture, but I wouldn't be suprised if this is a proven phenomena, I just haven't looked into it enough to be certain, but I've heard it from people whom I personally believe are credible sources.
I feel that to get the broadest possible view of the art you should train both ! 🙂 I love both for different reasons and both will add to your fighting ability
All down to preference though
I think your suggestion that good self-defense training would be you wherrying gi or some other type of sturdy grabbable close, and your opponent does not makes a lot of sense. Kind of puts your in a worst case situation. You kind of have all the disadvantages of gi, without the benefits. You have to deal with disadvantage of someone grabbing your closes, while not being able to grad others. And the thing is you could actually switch it up, so that sometimes you are fighting the know gi person so you know about the possibility of close grips, without depending on them because of the times your opponent is not wearing gi. In general though, I think what might make the most sense is self defense classes where your try out different types of street close. Jackets, shorts, jeans, and just the different general combination you might have to fight in or fight someone in. Though of course, that is assuming someone has the time. But I think its and interesting thought exercise, thinking what get ups most approximate real world situations. Which is tough to answer, because they are real world situations, meaning they are close to infinate possibilities.
Damn this is a nuanced argument.
He actually left out one of the most important variable when it comes to if someone should train gear no gee and I think it's motivated me to make a video on it because realistically I feel he left out without a shout of a doubt the most important factor on if you should train gear or no gear and it has absolutely nothing to do with your goals.
@@BigTiddyGothGrappler for sure whatever one is more fun for you you should train.
@@christophervelez1561 no that's not really it you're kind of there but not really there it has more to do with learning he escapes first. You should always learn escapes first because if you learn those first you're going to have more fun sooner and it's easier to learn escapes and no key or I should say it's harder to hold someone down in nogi so you will have more fun and no GI as a beginner sooner than you would as a beginner in the ghee because in it you're going to be held down more it's easier to hold someone down in it. I also think it's a lot easier for new people to pick it up in nogi because you can see what you're doing easier when you have the key on that's another layer you have between you and the other person making it even harder for a new person to get their bearings on what they're doing and understand the connections they need to make where to grab in those type of things when you can actually see it it's a little easier. Personally I think this is without a shot of a doubt the only thing that really matters for new people because as we all know like 90% of new people never come back after the first week and I think the only thing that matters yes truly the only thing that matters someone's first entire month is making sure they come back through the door. So that definitely means pretty much not wearing the ghee unless you're absolutely confident they're not going to quit because they're getting crushed and having a harder time escaping also I'm using voice to text transcription here so this is going to be very long and have some spelling mistakes. You make some good points but realistically at the end of the day I think none of that matters because the only thing that should really matter is making sure they keep coming back now once you're over that threshold that's a different conversation
@2:25 - you're right, it is rare for prominent BJJ people to advocate no gi in order to learn proper positioning and control. It shouldn't be though.
Ryan Hall is a noteworthy exception. He advocates both No-Gi and wrestling, to primarily gi competitors, for that reason.
I don't know for certain, but I'd be rather surprised if John Danaher doesn't advocate the same thing as well.
I wore a gi watching this video, rewatched with no gi. There was no difference, can’t argue with science.
I really wish I could pin two comments at once now lol
@@ArmchairViolence love your channel, thank you
lol wth!😂
For “self-defense” do both. If just one of the other, do that plus situational sparring/training (or gamification by customizing the rules of your grappling). Conventionally, gi will slow things down and so help with some movement development early on. And no-gi will speed things up and make them slippery, helping with reacting. Both have their cons too so… just do what you like and need, and supplement however is most fun for you (because you are more likely to actually do that and do it well).
I prefer no gi. Rolling with a gi is just too much grip fighting and it makes my fingers ache. Unfortunately, there are no no gi classes where I live. All yes gi.
Recently found your channel. I thoroughly enjoy your content. You’re funny as hell, and you deliver logical and well thought out arguments.
That said, your critique of Dean Lister, a three time ADCC champion, one of the most innovative jiu jitsu players and arguably the pioneer of leg locks in the no-gi game at the global stage, is misplaced.
I’m not saying this to defend Lister or simply taking his position due to his pedigree. You are seemingly concluding that the absence of qualitative and quantitative evidence that establishes that training in gi can appreciably improve no-gi performance more than putting all the same effort into training only no-gi proves that training gi does not improve performance in no-gi were the latter trained exclusively, all other variables being the same.
On paper everything you said makes sense, but I think most serious nogi players will tell you, this isn’t true. If you need a break down on this, just listen to Gordon Ryan and John Danaher’s rationale. Gordon got into gi when he was already the best in the world in nogi for the explicit purpose of sharpening his nogi game.
In my experience on a much more humble competition stage, it is because the gi (1) slows everything down enough against a similarly skilled training partner and (2) allows significantly stronger attachments and grips, that it assists in developing and refining newer techniques and body positioning/pressure that would have failed , and therefore prematurely discarded, if I trained nogi alone.
Most major innovations in modern jiujitsu first came on the scene in gi, and only subsequently in no-gi, despite the latter oftentimes having more liberal rulesets.
Ooooo I can’t wait to argue this!
Ok here is my crack at it. First off I am a huge fan of your videos and nuanced arguments but this is for the sake of engagement and pumping this video up into the algorithm!
I would argue that it is important to train both gi and no gi. I’m not necessarily a gi purist. I’ve always done both. I agree gi is easier to control thus making it easier to hold positions. I do need to train my passing to be more methodical. Take a knee cut for instance. If there is the gi I can hold my opponents knee and leg way more effectively because of the friction of the material vs a sweaty leg. I think that no gi makes my passing and attacks more accurate than in the gi. Going back to your argument on how no gi encourages scrambling I’d say that understanding of scrambling would make me a better player because scrambles happen in gi matches all the time.
I think the biggest argument is the need to be a complete bjj athlete, and coach. I think that in order to be a bjj player it is important to have exposure and understanding of all things under the umbrella of bjj to be complete. How can I be a bjj coach and not be proficient in both gi and no gi. In takedowns and guard pulling. In passing and guard playing. In holds and escapes. In doing self defense role playing and actually training (clearly a joke) etc. The benefits of training both is that one complements the other. Of course you can still have your same preferences and your game but it is important to learn, and understand the whole system. I also personally think that new people saying they prefer one over the other may miss out on the experience of the other which they may love.
Anyway l can’t wait for your next video and was wondering if you’d do a breakdown on your specific bjj game in a future video.
Hi what’s your thoughts on self defence coach like Lee Morrison, Tim Larkin? Can u do a video?
great video. btw, can you make a vid about faixada/hazing rituals in martial arts?
You always say things I always say!
I do both Gi and no Gi. It’s better to understand what works on regular clothes and what work from Gi and pull that over to no Gi. But I’d prefer to learn no Gi moves.
I support Gis for the main reason that you know what your students are going to wear, so you don't have to worry about torn t-shirts and so on. And they are durable for when you practice take downs for situations when someone grabs your clothing.
No, I have to say like Gis in class.
I advocate learning topcontrol without the gi even if you want to practice gi. Many of the subtle adjustments you do in nogi is applicable in gi - and once you get the grips - you'll be better of :-)
I like gi better. that's because - judo throws. but also - I'm old and lazy😅
Great points and well articulated. Applies to everything not just jujitsu. I take it you mainly train no Gi then? 🤔
Yeah, I tried Gi a little and just didn't like it at all. No-Gi is much more fun lol
@@ArmchairViolence don't blame you!
I like the gi because I'm a history major and I want a bit more authenticity in my martial arts and training no-gi feels more like I'm just doing MMA, which I'm not interested in despite the fact I want to learn multiple styles.
I agree mostly but there are certain techniques in Gi -bjj that can be useful in self defense like the cross coller choke and if you live in a really cold State or country gi becomes Valuable but mostly train no-gi
I like both. Gi really helps me out to be more technical at escapes esspecially armbar escape. And no gi did help me to be better at controlling with my legs and my whole upperbody instead of rellying on the gi.
Also you are using The principle of specificity of training badly.
If no gi dosen't make my grip strength and pulling power stronger that dosen't mean having stronger grip strength and pulling power isn't an advantage.
Or dead lifting. Bjj dosen't made my back stronger. But doing dead lift definitely made my bjj top pressure better. And even more technical bc i worked hard to learn how to controll my hip against pressure while in bjj classes from the top my hip was just a stone i was dragging with my legs...
I've trained in gi and nogi and realized they they are both their own style. Alot of the same moves but you do things completely different. When I went to gi after nogi I found that doing certain moves was pointless
I’ve only recently become interested in grappling arts and, as the video developed, I came to the same conclusions before they we’re mentioned. I’m more interested in learning no Gi wrestling & bjj for self defense & fitness so learning to grab something as easy as a Gi would be detrimental for me to grapple people wearing weak T-Shirts or easily removable jackets. I would also say that training to grab sturdy clothes isn’t as important because grabbing clothes is easier than maintaining a hold of sweaty wrists or necks.
The point being that even an amateur can come to the same conclusions on logic alone so its ridiculous these arguments still exist.
The original reason they trained in a gi is because that's what they were going to wear on the battle field under their armor. Outside the dojo they trained in a gi with full armor over it and wooden swords. That's the real reason. It was common clothing in feudal Japan.
Well, yeah, for the specific aspect of no gi conpetition, its not necesary, same with practicing for mma... You will not get an oponent in a gi fighting in mma... Its like learning taekwondo to be better at boxing... The overlap is not big enough for that...
However, i would say doing both is always gonna be better than doing one alone for a well rounded training, and that the gi grips actually strengthten your fingers and tendons for tighter grips even for no gi, but you cang et that last part by doing towell pullups... So... I dont see the need if truly you only want to compete in no gi or any style that doesnt have a gi... Hell, even sumo wrestling would be better for no gi than gi bjj(sumo has ankle picks, armdrags, armlocks, underhooks, overhooks, headlocks, about 40 no gi throws that are done in the same ways of wrestling, etc) if You wanna practice the standup aspect of no gi, its even better than wrestling, because you will spend 0 time on the ground and all the time defending amd attacking for takedowns... Now, would i say sumo is necesary for no gi bjj competition? Hell no, that would make no sense... Altho, it would be fun to see a bunch of bjj guys do sumo for like a month and see how their takedown game changes
I always thought it was weird to wear a gi with a belt while training, while I would never ever wear anything like that in real life. Not even my winter jacket comes close to what a gi is like when it comes to grips and collar chokes. If anything I should be wearing scrubs and stethoscope.
I like oldschool jitz a lot more, and no gi "meta" has a lot more wizardry. I think this is a big part of why I prefer gi, tho my gym does one week of nogi per month, which usually focuses on top game. I find that that's a pretty ideal setup for me.
Hi !
I've allways been a good striker ....now I would like to add some ground defence but I cant hurt my fingers (I teach guitar!), and I don't whant a curliflower ear.
It's better going for no Gi or Gi...???
Thanks!
Your video are very usefull !
Cheers.
It depends on what you are training it for! If you're training for MMA, no-Gi is pretty obviously better. If you're just doing it as a hobby, it's just down to what you enjoy more.
However, I will say that finger injuries tend to be a bit more common in Gi, because your finger can get trapped in the fabric. I do almost exclusively no-Gi, and I haven't noticed many finger injuries at all. At least not when compared with other types of injuries.
Cauliflower ear, however, can happen in both Gi and no-Gi. But less intense training means that you're less likely to get it. Plus, you can wear wrestling headgear to decrease the likelihood of cauliflower ear.
Thanks a lot!!!
....so wich ears gear to reccomend to buy to be "accepted" by the others whrestlers....🤭🤭
You are sooo logical - impressive. We listen and should not disrespect youth. As the bible says (1 Tim 4)»Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.»
I agree with most if not all the points that you make in this video, however I do believe that the small video inserts with Dean are inserted in a way that distorts the message that he's trying to convey. I do not think anything that he says really directly contradicts the message of your video.
In my opinion, gi and nogi should be very similar.
Using good jiujitsu technique (Gracie Filter) implies that your total control isn't reliant on just one thing, like grips. It's a combination of the Four Fundamental elements.
In Karate it doesn't matter if you wear a Gi or not. When there is a techniwue where you grab your opponent you always grab as if there was no Gi. You grab the wrist and not the sleeve. Always. No matter if you wear a Gi or not.
My understanding is that gi teaches you defending, while nogi teaches you attacking. If I had to pick one, I'd choose nogi because it will work in gi as well. Also, under pressure we tend to use gross motor movements i.e. nogi. Bonus: I hate gaming the system in gi with all the lapel bullshit like worm guards etc.
I find the GI infuriating. Due to my schedule I probably train in it 30% - 40% of the time. There is merit in dealing with grips, and escapes no doubt. My issue is when the instructor has us drill techniques that I can only apply 50% of the time. In the 5 years I've trained I don't think I"ve ever hit a GI submission. I think I almost have the bow and arrow choke down, but again, by the time I'm in said position and in a GI I forget a detail or two and just go for the back take.
There are way too many techniques in No-GI alone that I would rather refine as opposed to learning something that depends on the attire my opponent is wearing. When it comes to striking I can at least try not to rely on the high guard as it's less effective with small/no gloves.
I don’t train gi to get better better at no gi bjj. I train it because it’s funny to put people on their head with Judo moves they don’t have a prayer of countering.
We are not the same
Completely off topic, but that martin Ford vs iranian hulk thingy happening, probably in mma, how do you think the hulk guy beats Martin Ford? Man seems like he can barely move lol
Yeah, Iranian Hulk is younger, but Ford looks more cut, more nimble, and is 6 inches taller. Plus, he's done BJJ, and I can't find evidence that Hulk has done anything besides hit a bag.
Even though he's 9 years old, Ford looks like he's going to be faster and more experienced. Also, I can't imagine that Hulk has great cardio. He looks like he would gas out going up a flight of stairs.
But it's always hard to tell what will happen when neither person has fought before. Ford might end up having an awful chin or crumble under the pressure.
That being said, the only way I see Hulk winning is if Ford basically stands in front of him and starts eating shots.
@@ArmchairViolence yeah, the fact that those two have never fought before is a apart of the appeal. The rest of it is it being a wwe style freak show..
I think martin also trained some kickboxing for his undisputed 4 role.. through I’m not sure. Couldn’t find much there.
Thanks for your input though:)
I prefer Yu-Gi-Oh
For the average BJJ hobbyist, training both will make you better overall and more well rounded. But if you want to compete with Gordon Ryan, you should hyper focus on the skills needed to compete with Gordon Ryan. 🤷♂️
The main benefit, I would think of training gi would be to learn how to grapple people with their clothes, which seems like a useful skill to add to one's self-defense repertoire in addition to everything else
I suck at both so I train both to see which one I can get good at first
I've put a lot of time and resources/money (aka time in other forms) into getting stronk, people who've been in grappling/BJJ longer have put much of that same time into getting better technique.
One may argue I misallocated my resources and should have started training grappling sooner, however, I believe that being athletic is a worthwhile pursuit in general and that it's more useful overall for most self-defense scenarios than ANY martial art or skill set.
I think someone using their athleticism/fitness to do better in martial arts and fights is no more unreasonable than a High IQ person using their intellect to be a better fighter or win fights with less effort through their better cognition and quicker understanding of concepts while more efficiently learning and applying techniques and principles.
TL;DR Strong hulk man slam smash puny nerdy smarty boy.
I have scarcely --if ever-- seen a Brazilian Jiu jitsu school that didn't offer at least one day of no gi training per week.
So, it's not really "gi vs no gi" so much as "gi & some no gi" vs "no gi only". That's the more typical breakdown among BJJ schools.
Because, traditionally, no gi is a PART of BJJ training. There are plenty of "no gi" only schools but "gi ONLY" schools are really just not common. (Gi focused? Yes. Gi only? No). At a gi-focused school, you will STILL usually have students training at least some no gi as well.
If you only have done one, at some point you (i.e. "everyone") should really give the other a shot as well. It's pretty common for people to fall in love the "other" style, once they try it.
Here's another point. Judo guys should train no-gi. Learn over/under hooks.
We call that freestyle wrestling with submissions
@@Jay-ho9io no it's called greco roman wrestling. Without the gi every takedown turns into a deadlift if you can't attack the leg.
@@katokianimation fuck olyjudo. Nothing in O-sensei Kano's curriculum said you couldn't attach the legs.
And you can hit all kinds of trips and sweeps without a gi. Just like in freestyle.
@@katokianimationyou can’t attack the leg at all in greco, you can in judo just not with your arms standing, and you can in ne waza
Reason I like gi I feel cool in it and grip better people not sliding everywhere because of sweat on the mat. Reason I like no gi it’s not as hot and it’s more freeing. I do both and i say do whatever you like doing more
I’ve never seen a bad guy wearing a gi in public. Even thick winter coats are uncommon here in Southern California.
What gi practitioner hurt you?
want grip strength? do climbing.
i do climbing, i can hold my whole weight with one hand on a more or less dubious hold. if you wanna strip my grip without indirect tricks like finger or wrist manipulation, but using leverage, brute strength and other type of direct force applications, you need to generate on my arm the same force you would need to lift me. it's as simple as that.
suffice to say, in judo or jujitsu, i literally never got my grip striped by any kind of direct force. even in things like me doing a last hope armbar defense by grabbing my own gi when locked in place, people who could only use strength didn't manage to break my grip.
and i'm not an elite climber, not even a competitive climber. actually, i'm seriously lazy when it comes to my climbing practice, but climbing just makes your grip strong and versatile. who got the better grip? the guy used to people yanking on his arm when he's grabbing them? or the guy used to hanging his whole weight on 3 fingers?
Yeah I think self defense wise a balance of gi and no gi is best because you need to not depend on the gi but should probably learn how to use your enemies clothes to your advantage
Train Gi, NoGi, Lift weights, shoot guns, spar hard and live life free!
@ 2:30 - Actually plenty of people at my school, including the head instructor, have promoted using no-Gi as a way to improve speed and learning to control the opponent
@ 3:00 - that's a poor example. People can improve their deadlifts by working solely on squats, rows, and weighted chins (I've even tried it myself).
I do gi. I will roll with you if you have no gi too.
I roll in regular clothes sometimes.
how can gi training be necessary for no gi skills? to be good at no gi, do more no gi.
I do love gi bjj, even more than no gi. (this is my own opinion so no need to critique) But i don’t believe that you gain real benefit from gi bjj than no gi. I don’t just do bjj for self defense, i do it for fun. that’s why i do gi
I wanted to train Catch Wrestling.
But it's impossible to find a gym. So I started doing NoGi BJJ and just call it "NoPin Catch". (it's literally the same)
All of the BJJ people get pissed off when I tell them that... lol
But why did I do this?
I just think all of the fluff around BJJ is cringe.
Like the gi and colorful belts...
Like the "you so strong bro" and "position before submission"...
Like the "bjj is for weak people" and "technique over athleticism"...
All of this mystical crap is cringe af.
Grappling is grappling.
And BJJ is the strongest at only one thing = marketing!
I think the gi vs nogi question is simple:
Why was the gi invented?
What is the purpose of a gi?
Once you answer those two, you'll soon realize still training in a gi is akin to fencing. Can you use a sword to defend yourself against another person with a sword? Sure you can...
Now tell me when the fuck are you in a situation in which someone is attacking you with a sword?
A gi only makes sense if most people wear suits.
The days of the suit being an everyday outfit are long gone, and I think the gi's days are numbered. In my lifetime, the gi is going away. The 2022 ADCC World Championship just took place to a fucking packed arena. I've never seen a crowd like that for any gi shit. Gi jiu-jitsu will never be a spectator sport. I've trained a lot in the gi, and I'd rather watch paint dry than watch an IBJJF match where two guys are just tugging at their clothes to get some sort of "advantage" instead of trying to submit each other.
learn both be a beast
How dare you question the wisdom of Dean Lister
I think you take the principle of specificity too far. Training in an environment close to the specific context you want to improve at can absolutely be the best way to ensure that you have a well rounded understanding of that context but that doesn't mean it's always the best or even a viable way to train if you have a specific goal in mind.
As an example strength generally and grip strength in particular is absolutely essential for grappling and might well bottleneck your technical understanding of grappling. Grappling on it's own will not improve your strength as quickly or as directly as dedicated strength training will.
Even if you had the capacity to do more grappling training for most people there comes a point of diminishing returns where individual aspects of yourself are better targeted by focused training outside of a sports specific context even if that compromises their ability to train more grappling. I could potentially see cardio being the exception here but honestly I think the tradeoff for doing a single HIIT or anaerobic training session a week probably comes out against more sparring as well for dedicated athlete even it had the same recovery tradeoff.
I'm not defending the religious fanaticism around gi's though. If you only care about no gi competitions you're very rapidly going to hit the point of diminishing returns on transferable knowledge. For self defence it's almost certainly worth having a working knowledge of both.
I refused to learn gi, I understand there's some value buttt meehhhhhh
I believe it's because they can sell you an expensive GI. Maybe they really on the ufc one selling point too much.
I love ghee, it's great for grilling a good steak!
10th Planet all day every day👆👌