Striking Fundamentals Don't Matter
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- I make every striking coach in the world furious by explaining why most of what they teach isn't what they should be focusing on.
Why are you booing me? I'm right!
0:00 Intro
1:20 Positioning
3:17 Strategy
5:05 Style
Special thanks to Metrolina Martial Arts for letting me film in their gym. Any opinions are not necessarily shared or endorsed by Metrolina Martial Arts.
Metrolina Martial Arts' channel: / @metrolinamartialarts
Background music by Alexander Kehoe. Go check out his music!
/ @alexkehoepwj
Twitter: / armchairviolenc
This will be a rare case where the guys who *can* fight will be just as mad at you as the guys who can't.
Lmao, thats so right.
😆
It's not that I don't agree... it's that I don't want to agree XD All I hear when he talks is: ua-cam.com/video/S7GJQZruBZ8/v-deo.html
The absolute salt from both sides. Delicious.
Insert devious chortle
I was told, “practice the fundamentals, get good at them, then spar and learn what works for you and change from there.”
Because it's true
That seems like good advice.
Bruce Lee said there is nothing that can be taught except to get rid of your ignorance!
@@GaryTongue-zn5diwho da fook is dat guy?
@@GaryTongue-zn5di
Bruce Lee was not a fighter and only had movie skills
A couple of things to consider...
1) Any good instructor is not teaching punching mechanics in a vacuum. They're teaching them integrated with footwork and strike selection (part of what you call strategy in the video). The fundamentals of punching link to the fundamentals of footwork and both of those link to the fundamentals of strategy.
2) Also, one of the reasons you practice "exquisite" technique in training is because you are anticipating the breakdown of technique under stress. Those clips of Ngannou, McGregor, and Fury that you showed had them throwing punches that were 75% right. They're able to throw a 75% punch under extreme stress because they practice it to a 99% standard in training.
3) You might have also shown videos where picture perfect form allows a fighter to deliver with winning precision. Look at the Chandler's knockout of Ferguson. That was a picture perfect front kick. Perhaps a less well executed kick does not hit Ferguson right on the chin, at full leg extension, as he's shifting stances, etc and therefore is not a winning blow.
I agree that fetishizing one particular part of a system is bad, but that's far from saying that striking fundamentals don't matter.
You said what I wanted to say. You still train a punch so that when your are sweaty and high on adrenaline you can still throw a decent punch.
This is true. I think he just had bad luck with bad coaches. Also, MMA fighters are bad examples as few are decent boxers. MMA is a trade off of styles, and most sacrifice boxing.
@@rickjack78You're right
Well said!
Yeah I think he made some good points here but missed the mark in many ways.
This video is making the rounds on a forum I'm in and people are MAD. They are now posting your sparring videos to mock. Sensei Seth recently made a video explaining the pros of hands down fighting and the next day I saw a rant about why we need to ignore the "UA-cam gurus" who don't know anything about fighting. Congrats, you have achieved notoriety. It has been most amusing to watch.
I love that they're playing my sparring videos to watch me get beat up by Icy Mike, a man who completely agrees with my video lol 😆
@@ArmchairViolence oh they don't like him much either.
@@jomess7879 BWAHAHAHAHA
well that's usually what fools do, when they don't have any response all they can do is ridicule others
@@ArmchairViolence
Keep up the good work
"Position before submission" including in striking.
I guess in this case it would be called _“position before demolition”?_
It's called position first then attack.
Position before submission is no longer the case in top level grappling, all the subs come in scrambles
@@0n344 depends on if we talk bjj or catch ;)
@@danielschulz7391 i am trained in catch, you definitely attempt subs out of position
In my experience as both a fighter and instructor, the fundamentals matter way more then the flashy stuff, the problem is what the majority of instructors believe are the fundamentals.
Punches, kicks and other assorted techniques are plenty important from a self injury perspective, but they really aren't fundamental skills they are more basic than that. General fitness, controlled aggression, positioning, rhythm, timing, balance,control and awareness however are fundamental skills, strategy, programming, and setups are intermediate skills, as for advanced skills there's really only advanced techniques and elevated versions of ask previous skills in my experience
🤯 this also made me realize my footwork is non existent
Tie your feet spacialy together!
I agree and disagree. When you're a complete beginner learning some fundamentals is important. An extreme example is teaching someone to not wrap their damn fingers around their thumb when they punch. Some basic footwork also can be considered fundamentals. But yeah, I agree that most coaches just don't drill or even explain fundamental concepts like positioning or active defense as nearly as much as they should. I think partially the blame, at least from where I am from is that a lot of coaches are retired fighters that learned some of this intuitively or didn't even learned it at all, so they don't know how to teach it.
True !
Honestly yeah !
It's surprising how many pepole will wrap their fingers around the punch ...
I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that "its easy" to line guys up and have them stand stationary and run through combination drills. It's easy & an orderly way for the instructor to train large groups. But it's not good for learners. Like water goes down hill, many coaches take the path of least resistance. That's just human nature.
You've been hanging out with Icy Mike too much, his martial arts provocateur type titles are rubbing off on you! 😂
That's what makes people clic :)
Let's say:
Fundamental techniques don't matter.
Fundamental principles do.
Someone who never boxed needs to understand the concept of putting more than your arm behind a strike but without telegraphing and without losing balance.
One way (also the most often found but imho not the best one) is to teach fundamental techniques. When they got this they can develop starting from this point.
fundamental technique do matter though, wrist an thumb position for boxing are like the 2 first thing your instructor should teach you
and your second part is what he describe mockingly as technique
You have no idea how many sprinkles I've eaten by themselves
A few issues:
The examples are somewhat cherry picked, for every example of people getting away with bad technique there are 5 examples of fighters being put to sleep for not returning to guard properly, Amir Khan for example, like to open up and not bring his punches back and goes to sleep for his trouble. Another issue is that footwork is part of proper form. If someone isn't taught how to properly return to guard and rechamber their hips/feet they won't be able to properly move or make positional adjustments after the punch. Which is really what the basis of good form is. Being able to protect yourself as much as possible during and after the punch. You can give away positional and strategical positioning anytime you open up, even if you have an advantage at that time, but not holding the phone on the left hook and as most boxers know a counter for a left hook is your own left hook, in any of these cases proper form aren't sprinkles, they're the entire desert, these flaws can literally end the fight for you immediately as it has for so many fighters. Most knockouts happen off counters to begin with, that's why I believe as do most coaches that having proper form and guard is important at all levels. Sure some fighters can get away with it if their opponent can't take advantage, but the entire point of training to have proper form is for when you do meet a fighter that can adjust and take advantage of your flaws. Your job should be to make it as difficult as possible for your opponent not to find a way to not use techniques simply because there are a few examples of fighters that have been able to get away with it.
That makes sense but mostly just for the guard-return. That definitely makes sense as something you can’t get away with nearly as much as a mediocre punch, but positioning and timing is still better in their own rights. Hypothetically, if a fighter positioned himself at a strange angle for his opponent, the opponent might not have been able to counter a left hook with his own left hook (or at least with nearly as much power), and the other guy may have been able to see more from his better positioning, and better timing would allow him to know when to combo his opponent at the weird angle to make sure the most damage is done. A lot of fighters who get knocked out like that also positioned themselves in a way that makes those counters possible. Positioning is the butter to fightings bread. Technique is just the light layer of toast.
@@simplymax2125yeah, returning to guard is most of the time some passive way of fighting. Look at crawford vs spence. One was wayyy more basic and fundamental but had no feint and a limited sense of positioning rather than the other one
"You can give away positional and strategical positioning anytime you open up, even if you have an advantage at that time, but not holding the phone on the left hook and as most boxers know a counter for a left hook is your own left hook, in any of these cases proper form aren't sprinkles, they're the entire desert, these flaws can literally end the fight for you immediately as it has for so many fighters." I can't decipher this sentence. Can you break it up into smaller sentences and give some examples?
@@comicsmaster7809 fundamental doesn't mean basic.
Both crawford and spence and good fundamentals and technique meaning they have very little technical flaws so you cant use this as an example to make a case for the argument of that video.
this pencil neck making this video sucks and would get killed by a 12 year old boxer with good striking fundamentals, or have his twig neck broken by a 12 year old wrestler
Totally lost me when you said Fury abandoned all technique in the second fight.
He fought aggressively, but he didn't abandon technique. And if you think that was abandoning technique...well..you don't know what technique is.
The dude is self taught from UA-cam channels... He is absolutely clueless! Blows my mind he talks such a big game and then you watch him move and you are left scratching your head and saying WTF!
little pecil neck has a huge ego for someone who sucks@@scottwalker4968
@@scottwalker4968performance and knowledge is different, why do you think most coaches absolutely fucking suck at fighting and sparring? They’re not fighters, they’re analysts. His sparring and movement is irrelevant to what he knows
@@ZeroBudgetGuidenot true... the best coaches are the ones that can perform, there is much deeper understanding that comes from it.
@@scottwalker4968 the best coaches don’t always perform the best, are you beyond slow?
HEMA instructor with 20 years of doing it. I gotta say I agree with you completely here. In what we do we say the absolute fundamentals are "Distance, Timing and Judgement". Without those it doesn't matter the quality of you're technique you're still just a very technically precise pincushion. And without good judement/strategy you usually just 'die' tired.
Yes, perfectly aligned with Liechtenauer's "He who lies there is dead, the one who moves is still alive". Guards or techniques are not and never will be as important as stealing initiative and the vorshlag
So what would you say if I said that I had developed a style based off basic Hema (by basic I mean I've been doing it for about 10 years) that incorporates reverse grip occasionally but not as a main strategy more of as a faint actually interested to what you have to say on that also where do you teach if you're close by I would love to have a friendly spar if you disagree no disrespect intended I know it's frowned upon despite the depictions even in Hema texts
Honestly meant respectfully not as a dick my instructor couldn't prove me wrong and I would like to test it out against another opponent if at all possible again with all respect given
With swords it doesn't take much to kill someone or hurt someone badly. With fists and feet it is much harder to hurt someone, especially after the first few rounds when the fighters are getting tired and have their guards up and are about the same size and strength.
And since YOUR point is kinda decent, YOU'RE ok without using proper English. (Yeah I know, muricans don't learn English in school. Not you are fault)
so true!! i questioned the coach about how important the fundamentals actually were and asked if i could learn footwork and positioning and they said that even though i have the fundamentals pretty well, im not "there yet" and have to spend a certain amount of time on the basics before i can know anything else... just like you said, its like you have to earn the right to know anything of importance
So I see your point and agree with you on most everything, but from the perspective of a coach or a beginner I see some reasons to disagree.
One, as a coach, you need to give new students at least part of what they expect in order to have retention, and ideally something fun. Hitting a bag or mits is a lot more fun than footwork drills, especially since a beginner has no real understanding of why they need to do footwork. I also have seen people punch in ways that can hurt their wrists or hands, either by hitting with the wrong knuckles or letting the wrist bend. I've also seen some really stiff people require a fair bit of help to stop arm punching and actually use their hips. Same with having a proper guard up, it makes it much easier to react to a strike and increases the odds of blocking or parrying.
Once they've got all that down pretty alright? Let em do whatever works. Teach them the options and let them explore their style. Let them spar and start introducing those footwork drills once they have done some sparring and can see why it matters. Teach them strategies for success. Have them actually figure stuff out. It's harder, but yeah, if you want a good fighter, chances are that they are not compatible with every orthodox technique and need some personal twists. That said, fundamentals do matter, cause without any type of introduction or experience, it is hard for a person to even understand their starting point well enough to ask questions or make changes. Someone with ZERO fight sense can't begin to play around with style until they develop that sense, and til then, fundamentals.
The reason why beginners are taught to keep their guard up is that it decreases the directions they can be attacked from and, therefore, decreases the complexity of what they have to deal with. More advanced boxers can deal with the additional complexity, but reducing complexity first is a very sound idea for not getting beginners overwhelmed.
I usually explain it to noobs as hands down =/= guard down. The guard is far more than the hands being up.
have you ever been to a non McDojo striking class?
basic are important for a number of reasons:
-having bad body mechanics can lead to injury (typically sprained wrist from misaligned punch)
-wrong distance with kicking is very bad you can entirely negate your own technique by pulling it at the wrong distance
-you start forming muscle memory from the second you start training, and it's bad if you have sloppy technique because it needs a lot of effort to fix
-return stance is more important than almost everything else in kicking as if you dont return to a proper stance, you end up being the BJJ guy that get swept by the TKD guy every time he raise his foot above 2 inches from the ground
what you call the basics is not the basics that were taught in any of the 4 strike oriented gym/dojo i practiced in:
what you describe as basics is body mecanics which is one of the 4-5 basic
-body mecanic
-basic positionning, executing the technique at the right rangeand knowing how to dodge and not get cornered is enough for begginers
-basic strategy, the barebone" you have more reach use it"/"he have more reach don't let him use it" is enough for begginer
-basic flow, why use this technique, what to do afterward, when to breathe
-conditionning and reaction both physical and mental
-yes instructor talk a lot about the body mechanics because that's what most people fuck up all the time when they begin and it is unsafe to fuck it up and counter productive since you will need to "unlearn it" to lear proper form. an it's easy to fix in drills
-good instructor have you do the technique in all of their applications and different range which unless you know what you can and can't do, if you only know how to throw correctly(not perfectly) a straight punch and an half round-house kick you can't build a very good strategy against someone that have more usable tricks under their belt
-then they have you practice the technique in small scenarios (typical sparring with 3 technique each for white belt) so you know how to mesh techniques together (flow)
-then you free spar it so you can see what works and not for your strategies. (mental conditionning and reaction)
-all the while conditioning your body
only when you are decently competent at those learning to read the opponent style and develloping proper several step strategy will be usefull
bad technique can doom a good strategy though, the classic in TKD is one of the fighter overestimating his accuracy and kicking an elbow instead of a gap in the guard, and suddenly he have trouble walking and loose
"abbandon all semblance of techniques in order to create pressure" he says while playing fury delivering a perfectly executed back hand into clinch
also having only mild technical breakdown under pressure is only attained by having good technique in controlled environment. it's extremelly clear when you train beginner kids, the ones that don't practice seriously during technique, are so bad that their opponent can just shrug off whatever they land even if you try to bring back the odd by only coaching the kid that is loosing.
and if you are someone cross training into striking from wrestling, why would you instructor would have to teach you strategy you have your strategy already, all he have to do is teach you the movements and how to mesh them (aka drills) and give you some sparing experience
TLDR:
basics:
body mechanic (basique techniques, balance, breathing)
knowing your range
not having dumbass strategy
flow (basic technique combos)
reaction to techniques
how not to get pushed out of tatami/in ropes
advanced:
advanced techniques
reading opponet
several step strategy
most footwork tricks
I remember when I was young and hot headed and thought everything was in black and white. This seems to be where you’re at. Fundamentals are not the most important thing, but I disagree with them being something my that just gives coaches something to be critical of. The way you teach a beginner vs a more advanced fighter is very different, and those who are commenting about how perfect your form needs to be are generally novices that don’t know better yet. That said, basic techniques help keep novices safe in sparring and drills early on as they learn the underlying concepts that make them work. I think this is also something you mean to portray here, but it didn’t really come across when you say “none of that matters” and it’s all “sprinkles.” Seems too black and white to me.
Agreed, teaching fundamental striking and high level striking are two different skillsets, and since most of the world are beginners, the contrast between what ur taught in class and what the elite do on tv becomes clear
@@sparkyy2890 UFC/MMA is more about aggressively attacking. I seen a few youtube videos poking fun at some of the pro fighters not blocking in performance fights XD.
Also you will never be an expert if you fucked up your wrist and your hand early in your journey because you can't punch a heavy bag without damaging yourself.
@RED CHUCKS so Mike Tyson doesn't have the genetics for fighting? :P
@RED CHUCKS relax Chucks, I know your trolling game. Just wanted to humor you a bit :D
Wow you just gave me a complete new perspective of something I think I knew pretty well. I love that thanks for this amazing video, I'll come back and watch it again
Fundamentals will bring you further than you can, you will reach a bottleneck sooner rather than later without them. The important thing is to not just get the fundamentals down to muscle memory, but also understand why the fundamentals are the way they are, that will naturally lead to a deeper understanding of positioning, strategy than would be possible without the proper fundamentals in place.
The irony is when a beginner begins to break these rules, he might see them as abandoning his fundamentals, while actually the opposite is happening - it's actually the beginner understanding the fundamentals enough that he is confident enough to break them.
Looking at experts who have in depth understanding of the fundamentals breaking these rules effortlessly really brings attention away from the process they went through to acquire their skills.
I think "they understand fundamentals enough to break them" is a great statement.
I think another part of it is simply to exercise their fundamentals physically, make sure they can keep their abilities through the fight - for example: arms tired while guarding, wobbling legs while moving, etc.
It is important to state that technique is more important in some facets of fighting than others, and to understand its value we need to understand why it was developed, if you have insane punching power, don't use techniques that optimize power, focus on landing the shot, also in grappling techniques aren't the same as they are in striking, as they are derived from strategy in the first place, why is why your title is fucking awesome. Just my two cents, Peace.
Facts, you HAVE to master perfect technique in grappling. However striking it doesn’t really matter, you just need timing and positioning, striking technique just gives you more protection and optimal opening opportunities. Tony Furgeson is a perfect example, sucks at technique but his striking is still crazy good due to his timing and unorthodox style yet his grappling technique is picture perfect
The part you mentioned about developing your own unique style based on your body type, personality and instincts really interested me. Could you possibly make another video going into more detail on this very subject?
Very true! Ryan Hoover also has a video about mitt work and positioning called “Move or Get Hit”, where he explains exactly what you said about practicing mitt work without any footwork can lead to bad habits in sparring. Great video as per usual!
I have 2 issues with this:
1. The definition of fundamentals. At least for me the fundamentals include footwork and positioning as well as basic techniques and defenses.
2. The assumption that high level fighters not sticking to textbook technique means they’re not relying on fundamentals.
I absolutely agree that the fundamentals as you define them here are not the be all end all they’re often made out to be but they are the basis of even unorthodox fighters. Basic biomechanics of how power is delivered comes from understanding the fundamentals enough to adapt them to one’s own style. It’s the trainers job to help people develop their own style and let them break the textbook rules when it is to their advantage and to make stick to it when it’s things that wont work.
High level fighters also nailed the fundamentals and know when to stick to them or break them to make a tactic work.
And lastly the fundamentals are important to be able to fall back on when hurt or gassed out. Having the guard up and throwing very clean textbook shots to stay protected may not be the winning strategy but may prevent you from getting knocked out after being knocked down or when gassed in the last round after an all out war for 4 rounds before. That muscle memory can save ones ass.
I do agree on your general thoughts about positioning and tactics being more important that super clean technique and developing one’s style tho.
"He talks like he's clever,
And thinks that he's right,
But I think I'd win in a fight.
With his science and books,
He lectures me about hooks,
As if I am not very bright.
Let's see him take to the streets,
With his thinking techniques,
Real men would put him out like a light"
Make your outro song longer, please, I really like it :)
I'd even buy it on bandcamp...
Yes please
About the point at 3:59 i would like to add that improving on your weaknesses (IN TRAINING) can help you fill up some holes BUT you still shouldnt completely ignore the simple strategy of just using your strengths
The more i think about this i think that teaching beginner striking and high level striking are two different skillsets, one is more about building a bedrock for someone to work with, and then once they have enough experience they can start experimenting with different ways to get into position and implement their strategy where the details become far less important
@CAMTHEMAN75sounds like a mixed bag to me. Focusing on footwork over form I think is a good thing, but forcing you to be ortho even though you’re southpaw is sketchy. At my gym if you’re a southpaw then you drill and spar southpaw.
yes, angles are important, etc, but no, the technique is definitely one of the most important things!! the reason I've only actually been properly hit and hurt once or twice ever in boxing is because I strike and bring my hand straight back to guard to block any counter attempt my opponent tries. I love it when my opponents do the hands-down thing as I can hit them more or less whenever I like. it's not too hard to set them up with faints. yes, there are some high-level boxers that have mastered the hands-down style but in my experience, a lot of people try it and it doesn't go their way. yes, it helps with certain things but it also leaves you very open. the reason hands down guys win fights is because the hands-down style is becoming more and more popular and when both fighters have their hands down it's just a case of who lands a big hit first. also bringing the elbow out to throw a jab is the opposite of what I was taught. i was taught showing the elbow makes you easy to read so twist as I extend my arm so my straight punches go down a straight line. and we even do this drill where we stand next to the wall a couple inches away from it and if your elbow touches the wall when jabbing then it means your elbow came out and you have to do 10 pushups as a result. and last year one of the local boxing gyms took their amateur fighters to compete. all of those guys was trained in the hands-down style and none of them won a fight because their opponents had good guards so the opponents could hit and not get hit so it was very one sided and a friend of mine actually quit that gym to go to a better one that teaches guards. hands down works in light sparring because there's less risk of getting knocked out if you keep getting lightly punched in the face repeatedly. but I do agree with some of what you said. but this is just my opinion based on my experience I guess
@Sean Francis Waters Lancaster except for all the times people do land them... on tv... every weekend lol
@@hard2hurt also it's a weird angle for a straight punch. jabbing with your elbow out like that means if your distance isn't absolutely perfect then you'll be hitting with your pinkie finger knuckle. also if you compare power, hitting with your pinkie finger knuckle with your elbow up typically generates less power than if you were to extend vertically and rotate your hand horizontally on impact while twisting your body into it and fire that straight punch like a bullet. if that makes sense, try and visualize both variations of the jab, or better yet, try both on them on the bag. same with the cross.
I fight with hands high or low both, depending on what I'm trying to achieve.
I feel this video is way too black and white.
@RED CHUCKS until you break your pinky, your supposed to hit with first 2 knuckles the index knuckle and middle knuckle
@RED CHUCKS you’re a professional?😂 you break your hands often I presume. Its common knowledge that you should not punch wgere weaker bones are
I describe it to the people I teach as music is the space between the notes. Fighting is the movement between the punches and kicks that matter. Where you're standing what you're working towards. Great video
I love this video. One of the best I've seen since I don't knew when. Watched 3 times. Subscribed & shared it.
People who get this, get it. Those who don't won't and can't. You're describing indescribable Right Brain activity with Left brain words.
I'm old now, but when I trained I moved around a lot & trained and fought at many different gyms. They all HATED my style. Many taught "seminars" against my style because of all the complaints their guys made every week about "things not working" & not being able to deal with the way I did things. Many many coaches said my style "sucks" & this was going to happen to me & that was going to happen. Very few put on the gloves to spar with me. But the few who did were shocked & changed their minds quick. Now all the world is trying to fight out of "Philly shells" & using footwork & tactics similar to mine. It's not going to work for many of them though. They're still in the same myopic mindset & I think they're just going to find "new" wrong things to focus on.
I was just really lucky to have a few great coaches early who taught me body mechanics and did exercises to teach me concepts first. And taught me how to box and fight after that.
Oh wow, this made a lot of things click for me about when, where and how I've improved at fighting. Realising that technique is only helpful in so far as it enables different tactics really puts into perspective how martial arts works.
I always taught beginners to have the hands up and punch in a certain way to work on muscle memory and to get acclimated in class, which is actually really important.
I never did tell them to hold their hands in a certain way while free sparring because everyone is different.
But beginners need basics before learning stuff like moving around opponents.
I'm literally going through this evolution right now. Good vid.
Again Sir, you videos, “totally kill!”
Great content. I gotta focus and implement these concepts as actual basics better.
Technique is important to a point but sometimes what you do and when you do it is more important then the how you do it. Distance,timing,strategy, defense (the different ways to do your defense) setting patterns and breaking patterns. Are all more important then getting a single technique 100% perfect. The main problem is a lot of coaches don’t know how to teach these concepts when it’s just easier to do combo after combo after combo
tbh technique is what you use to capitalize on better footwork, and you build your strategies around it, you can measure distance because you have trained your jab technique so its always kind of the same jab so you get a feel for the range, you train striking technique to use everything else in the book, but i do agree that once you know your shit it doesnt have to be super mega crisp and perfect punch, it just has to be elegant
measure distance and footwork are so underated. Everyone wants so throw perfect looking punches and kicks, but good footwork and knowing your distance is a way better way to land your punches and kicks (and its helps you to not get hit too, obviosly). Also, if your style looks dumb but works, than stick with it. if it works, it is good. This is not dancing where you get points for a good form or technique, this is matrial arts.
20-ish years on the internet and I've never commented first on a youtube video
I honestly thought this video was going to be something else, but honestly this is solid information.
Italian fencing philosophy is dominated by distance, timing and speed. They work these concepts from a young age and then worry about technique.
"Z stepping, L stepping, Drop stepping, Shift stepping, Demsey Rolling, D'mato Shifting" thx big bro, I'll work for it
don't overthink specific techniques too much, the biggest thing you have to worry about is just to get close to actually land your techniques preferably in a way that the opponent has a harder time to land on you. L-stepping for example is one of those habits that people do which gets people knocked out. Shoulder tag is a fun game to practise entries with but you have to have a friend to do it with who also thinks about it realistically rather than just scoring points.
biggest improvements I've had overall is when I take a friend, spar light 5 days in a row and 6th day we do 5 rounds of hard sparring, while videotaping all of the rounds and analyzing them at the end of the day. When you both have to learn and fix your habits you start to get a much better understanding of what you're actually doing and increases focus in the sparring too.
Great video. I still believe perfect technique is essential to minimize the chance of one getting hit by a punch they didn't anticipate. That's why it's important not to have your chin exposed, even tho distance management and positioning are more important you can't anticipate every strike coming your way. Some shots will inevitably get through and for that having good fundamentals is important, I wouldn't call it the "base" of the cake but I believe it's a bit more important than just "sprinkles", possibly the "frosting".
Strategy is king tho
I love all of your videos! its only a matter of time before you blow up on youtube
He's right. I once heard a boxing trainer say
"Jack (Rennie) is a good bloke but he can't teach U how to box, coz he doesn't know, how" and I though
"Oh yeah? No, Jack is a smart guy, who knows better, than to try to change/cramp Ur style".
We are all individuals, with our own temperament and style. I also heard someone say
"If only Ali had Cus D'Amato for a trainer and he did Iron/Mike/Tyson's (dodgy) peekaboo style" and I thought
"There is no way Ali would ever do that! That wasn't his style".
Btw, you can actually use your same argument the other way. There are a ton of people who know the exact strategy that should be used to defeat the beat in the world. Yet they will never win a fight against anyone their size who trained in anything, because their body hasn’t been taught proper technique. The one exception I know is Max Holloway, for whom playing video games was twice as effective as putting in real work
Yup, I agree. The only thing I'd add to the "most important things" of 'positioning' and 'strategy' is Timing. Knowing when to execute is critical.
I had to think about it for a while and I can only partially agree. What you describe as striking fundamentals are mostly "correct" executions and basic defense. I think it's really important to start with this when working with beginners, but footwork and positioning have to follow quickly. It's the same in grappling. "correct" strikes (hip, shoulder, thumb down, etc) is the same like "correct" submissions (bent the arm that way, cross your legs that way, move your hip up, etc.). And "guard up all times" is basically equivalent to "never turn your back". Both are true, except when they're not. But you can't flood a beginner's brain with everything at once.
Where you're correct is that in striking people often don't advance from correct execution. In grappling positioning is taught from like week 3, because it's essential in sparring. But in striking people can spend years just hitting pads. So I'm with you, positioning has to be taught way earlier and more thorough. But(!) that doesn't mean that the "fundamentals" don't matter. True, pros never do anything picture perfect (except for Charles Oliveira. That man can be freeze framed every other second and his technique will look like it's from a Kickboxing instructional), but they are close enough to picture perfect, that they a) cause damage and b) don't hurt themselves. The best positioning is pointless if you can't execute a proper technique. Getting into Ashi Garame is pointless if you can't execute a heelhook and sidestepping doesn't help much, if all your strikes are aimless flails, that would break your hand if you accidentally hit.
Edit: to come back to your dessert metaphor, the fundamentals aren't the sprinkles. They are the cake base. You need it to start assembling the dessert, but if you don't add anything, you basically got blend bread that no one wants to eat.
I agree to an extent, but also, all fighters have technique. Otherwise they are just flailing their arms and getting whooped. Positioning is technique, and every little movement in a fight is technique. Strategy is just how these movements are used. So strategy is the gun and technique is the bullet, kinda. You can have the best gun in the world but if it only shoots nerf darts, it won't be very powerful, likewise, you can have 50 cal full metal jacket rounds but if they are fired out a toy, it still won't be powerful. So both technique and strategy are needed to be a good fighter
Thanks for this mate! This first principle thinking is highly unpopular in an "activity/industry/occupation/domain?" that just recently entered its classical era - where a majority of practitioners are still held back by beliefs (Qi and martial woowoo) and socio-economical structures (gun-fu and your local gym) that perpetuate thoughts that date back to an era where empirical evidence was few and far between.
Also, I've been bingeing your videos for 48 hours straight because of a lumbar strain that kept me away from the gym and this made me look forward to a new purpose when I eventually come around. Cheers!
In every aspect in life - basics are around 70% of the knowledge of anyone doing it professionally and being on the top. Those who know the other 30% may ignore the basics, because they are so deep that they have them as part of their routine, they just know when NOT to be bothered by them. Not holding guard as a beginner against a high level martial artist is a sure way to win a ticket to dreamland.
People tend to fall in the misconception that "if I know it, others know it as well", complete beginners at sports tend to not know how to move their bodies and how body-mechanics are relevant to the techniques appropriate to a specific sport. That's the reason a pro-level athlete can relatively easy change fields - his understandings, athleticism and work ethics carries over and he only needs to learn the specifics of the new sport.
Footwork and angles, strategies are advanced things and without basics will lead to anyone training to not understand why he needs the usage of footwork, nor will let you take advantage of superior position.
Being a 'mediocre fighter' and knowing the basics, without understanding anything about footwork and different angles will still net you above 90% of the world's population in terms of unarmed fighting abilities. If you wish to become a professional or good fighter, you need all those advanced stuff, but they come once again - after the basics. Sloppy understanding of the basics will make you a 'crappy fighter'.
Saying "fundamentals don't matter" is a clickbait ... well then again here we are all of us - the viewers.
"It's easy to teach" blew my mind.
I am very impressed. Absolutely.
Principles are more important than techniques.
Love the video. It was thought provoking. Footwork sets up your offense and keeps you safe. Gives you dominate angles, and is the real essence of fighting. So i agree its important. But there are certain principles in fighting, like don't get hit in the chin. And different styles accomplish that goal differently. Thats why its an art. And stragity is important, reference the iconic Cinderella man vs max baer. Where he used outside positioning to avoid baer's devastating right hand. But technique is also important. Traditional Fundamentals are not the only way of striking or to accomplish fighting principles. But they are there for a reason. Its a style. The reason the hands are up is to block quickly and with minimal movement. And the reason you turn your thumb is because it raises your shoulder. This helps to protect your chin when you have it tucked. To overhand is a common way to exploit the lack of this technique when someone is jabbing from this style. If im not mistaken magregor has knocked several out this way. Different styles accomplish principles differently but not necessarily wrong just non standard. When they do use techniques that break fundamentals such as the Louis cross, its because they work and maximize the fighters advantage. But in Floyd Patterson's words. "Without fundamentals your have little to fall back on or something like that. Imagine if tyson had the skills to adjust his stragity midfight and fight just as well. And what happens in mma when the takedowns just don't work and he can strike. But im taking this comment way too seriously lol. Just an interest in fighting. Great video.
Here is why I argue it DOES matter; they understand WHAT makes a good form and punch, if they understand why they're taught that way, if they know the rules, then they know how to break those rules effectively. Punch with your body weight, not with just your hands, don't leave your guard open and your chin up, etc. Even if standing in that stance isn't whats important, what you gain from learning it is. Its like training wheels.
You described boxing stance and form and then showed MMA clips. They're different, and you don't see too many people who aren't technical get away with it in boxing. More often people like Loma, Canelo, GGG are SUPER technical and their fundamentals are air tight.
There's a big difference in MMA where the range is different due to kicks, you can threaten take downs etc. Different stances and approaches have strengths and weaknesses.
I agree that footwork and strategy are underrated in gyms but you need to know how to punch before you place yourself in position to punch
And now you see fighters like Sean Strickland schooling high level kickboxers in MMA for this reason.
Has anyone got a link for a good positioning drill vid?
Do you have tutorials or can recommend any one strategy? Thanks!
Teaching or learning good techniques to people beginning is very important and very useful. Once a person has learnt good techniques and they have developed the muscle memory and have experience then that is when they can modify different techniques to their liking. But if you don't learn or use good technique your strikes will be much less effective then someone who does. I have first hand experience with this fighting people who had not learnt the basics and good technique.
Also about having your hands up, I don't know how many times I have seen a fighter get KO'd because they did not get their hands up when being overwhelmed. Yes some fighter at the highest level have trained for a style that has a low or almost no gaurd when sticking, but they are also normally awear of the trade off of this, and many train to compensate by having good head movements. The thing is you need to train and understand the basics before you start trading off better vision or strick angles for less defence. I do agree with you that food work and movements are very important and should be part of the basics learnt.
The problem with having a "Good strategy" is in the fight all that can fall apart of your opponent starts doing something unexpected or has found a strategy that counters yours. Like Bas Rutten said, "Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face."
A person has to know and understand "The Basics" before they start developing an style that works for them. Timing and positioning is learnt once a person has the basics down and starts gaining experience pressure testing and sparring or competing. So in short I disagree that the fundamentals don't matter, because they very much do.
This age poorly after Sean Strickland dominated Izzy using mostly boxing fundamentals.
true
@Spectonimous
You sure you're seeing the point?
I believe you don't see the point on strategy and technique
And Sean Strickland got knocked out by Alex Pereira who fights out of the norm, with his hands low and doesn't do full twists on his kicks. I think basics matter to a point but perfection is unnecessary, so many world champion examples of this, fighters who don't exactly have perfect form.
Outro is gold :D
This helped me so much Ty man it has completely turned me around as a fighter. I’ve gone from an average overly cautious counter striker to a pressure style and I’m doing my best work now. I would not even attempt to pressure fight in the past bcuz I felt I needed every strike to have perfect form and I had to learn that b4 even trying. It turns out everything u say is true. I’m overwhelming ppl who used to toy with me on the daily simply because I’m not obsessed with form and instead im hyper focused on positioning and dictating pace. if I am on the side of you throwing 4-6 unanswered shots to the head then I dont need them to be pitch perfect to take someone out.
You have such a great way of wording things. All stuff I wish I'd heard when I was training the coaching methods you so often - discourage - are the ones that pushed me away and made me hate striking.
I think I wanted to try and be more awkward and unpredictable on my feet than technical. I was just gonna take 'em down anyways 🤷🏻♂️
When I get back into it, I plan to take more liberties during sparring and stuff. Should make it more fun and productive. Thanks for your work! 👍
Have a strategy to get into a position to utilize technique.
This is absolutely correct. Strategy and tactics always trump technical details. I actually stress this quite often.
I agree with the premise that throwing the "perfect" punch is less important than your positioning, footwork and strategy, but you're being too hyperbolic in trying to prove your point. Yes, if I'm out of range, I can't be punched, and if I have a strategy that works well, I'll land shots I probably otherwise wouldn't, but there will be moments where I *am* in range, and moments where I will also fall for my opponent's strategy. When that happens, neglecting to practice the muscle memory of doing something like bringing your hand back to your chin could easily end the fight for you right there. There are countless examples of exactly this.
Fundamentals are also useful in teaching beginners the basic body mechanics of punching. For example, you're taught to turn your heel when you punch, something pros don't really do. Why? Because turning your heel forces you to turn your hips so you aren't just arm punching. Pros understand this, so they don't need that extra step. If you're brand new, you don't, so you drill the same punch so you can get used to the movement. There is value in teaching this to people who just walked in the door.
I do get what you're saying, but the "sprinkles" thing is definitely underselling it.
I get the feeling he never actually had to teach beginners or modify tactics for an aging fighter that used to keep up with the young guys but can't.
At some point you can't control distance with footwork if the guy infront of you is younger and faster, and then you got to bring the guard up more and cut him off more than flanking him.
Not saying you shouldn't try to control distance or flank the younger fighter, you might be just that much better than them.
But it doesn't always happen as frequently as you're younger.
Interesting take. Do you teach a basketball player strategy first or do you teach them how to dribble first? I always thought that bad habits were hard to break. Next time my soccer mom comes in and wants to learn self-defense I’ll tell her don’t worry about where you put your hands and just haymaker fools as long as you’re behind them.
I was prepared to be upset by your video, but I actually agree with everything haha !
Distance, proper stepping coordination, and setups are the most important (I'd add good balance as well but it's kinda part of the footwork). If you get that you can swing ugly haymakers and be successful.
I agree that balance is the only aspect overlooked in this video and can put a very real ceiling on a fighter if they employ off-balancing tactics as a keystone of their fighting style. It offers an easy exploit for the savvy fighter who maintains balance. In cases like this the fighter with balance ingrained into their style will come out with the win nearly every time.
I somewhat agree with this video but also disagree on several points. You need to be efficient with basics techniques and focus on improving your speed, power and accurately. The "form" of the technique is suppose to (but not always) help you develop those aspects of your technique. This in my opinion is where styles like Karate have an advantage over boxer. I've trained in martial arts for almost 30 years and the advantage of Karate training (depending on the school) is being efficient in teaching how to punch, but as you said in the video having a strategy means you need to understand distance and timing. You could have the strongest punch in the world but if you can't control the distance the punch is useless. However if the punch is lacking in speed, power and accurately then the strategy won't work because of telegraphing, etc. If you want examples of MMA fighters with good fundamentals and good strategy watch Lyoto Machida and Wonderboy.
When it comes to training strikes and striking combos I always emphasize footwork with a technique as it relates to distance. Sometimes you want to isolate the strike without footwork, so when you hit the pad the you're just focusing on power, or speed, or accurately. Then add in the footwork to make sure your training progresses into realism.
Now yes the I believe the fundamentals are important, but you are right about how having good technique without any strategy makes the technique useless. However they are two sides of the same coin. Techniques are something you should learn quickly, but take years to improve upon. Think of it like this, "You can't play chess and form a winning strategy, if you don't know how the pieces move."
You can't be serious... there is literally no better way for a human strike with their hands than boxing. Its literally proven through science.
This is true with many things. It's not the technically the best artists who become famous, but their positioning...their connections, and their ruthless strategies. MFA programs should teach this truth.
I like and agree with the thoughts here. Sometimes when I'm rolling and someone asks me what I "did", my response is, "I... tricked you... *shrug*"
great advice everyone has a unique bodytype, range, fitness level
Please make a video with all that basic footwork ❤❤❤❤
This is interesting. I do a lot of capoeira and over the years seen a lot of evolution in the training, and I often disagree. Pad work where I trained was also very static. I used to tell people off for gazing into the distance when loosely holding the pad. I've in fact taken some lessons from boxing in how to spice it up.
I've finally gotten to the point where I feel reasonably qualified to teach and I tend to teach application rather than technque. I generally have an enter in or positioning lesson in my lessons. I never use long sequences either.
I liken it to know how the chess peices are moved but not actually knowing the actual winning strategies. I remember watching 2 video's on it and my chess game improving dramatically
Today in sparring one of the teachers did say that i wasn't moving enough, good to know
Truly, you are right. Yes
The karate practitioner in me is having alot of conflictting thoughts about this and will probably be residing in my brain for a while thank you very much. I agree that positioning, strategy, and footwork are a important place to start in fact this is usually where I start with my students. However I also think having a high level understanding of the kinetic mechanics of techniques is also vital. For the simple fact that once you are in position you have to be able to deliver an effective technique. Being able to put power, speed, precision, and penetration into a technique are essential. Sloppy techniques are effective for high level fighters because they understand the mechanics needed for a good technique. To me at least this is what understanding the fundamentals means. Not the correct thumb position of the jab but the body mechanics needed to throw the jab.
The dude is wrong. Bad technique, gets your hands and wrist broken during a fight. If you are more of danger to yourself, than your opponent, position, and strategy is irrelevant.
@@jaeger251 It will also get you knocked out when you keep your hands down and think positioning and strategy is everything. Guess what? That's easily said but beginners and even intermediates don't do it very well yet, because it requires experience to learn it, and even at the professional level SOMEBODY has to have superior positioning, what does the other guy do? Just give up because positioning is everything and now he's going to receive a beating? No. Fundamentals like keeping your hands up will allow you to better defend your head and give you a chance to recover to potentially gain the advantage over the opponent later. Ultimately it's all about working around the other person's guard, primarily using strategy and positioning, but that doesn't mean you might as well just not keep your hands up
His point is people don't ever learn position
And get beat by some one with lesser technique
And better footwork and strategy
I mostly agree with what you said here. Actually I wish people would think more like you, because I recently quit my martial arts school and went to an MMA school, because I expected to learn a lot more about the strategy and position for striking. Which didn't happen. It seems like this is an aspect that is taught indirectly, because it's difficult to correct you on, as you said. I still think basic striking technique is very important, tho. Maybe you underestimate how incredibly bad beginners are at this stuff and schools have to be able to teach the most incompetent people. I mean I am bad at striking but I was very surprised to see new guys who have no martial arts experience at all "walk punching" and literally tripping over their own feet.
This guy know what his talking about! Footwork is very important
Hey buddy love the content I have a question.
I’ve gotten into heated debates with many people about who would win in a street fight, a trained military man i.e. Green Beret/navy seal or A trained professional combat sports champion.
They usually say the military person because they are trying to kill and train for a sport. I always rebuttal with if Jon Jones wanted to kill you…. he can….
Thoughts?
Military martial arts aren't very good for self defense/street fighting.
ua-cam.com/video/3coXUrwtX0U/v-deo.html
All else being equal, the combat sports person would win. Military trains to shoot people. MMA fighters train to punch and throw people. The person that practices more hand-to-hand is going to do better at it.
If you give them both guns, then military guy might win
This reminds me of a correction I'm still salty about. In sparring I threw a jab straight instead of turning it because the vertical position let me slip through my opponent's guard. Worked perfectly. My instructor told me I need to turn my punches, which I normally do but not when doing so will mean the difference between my punch being blocked or slipping through.
i would say the same applies to pretty much any style or art. it most certainly applies to judo and bij. timing and setup above all
Makes sense and I have noticed it over the years how most of the killers in the gym looked sloppy as fuck as compared to what the beginners were told to religiously do. I don't have the mechanical analysis thing going on like you do so well. I just chalked it up to some people just being "tough". Haha!
You know I thought I was gonna come here and disagree, but instead I want to thank you for saying this.
Real fundamentals are what you're talking about, footwork, positioning, timing, etc. The things that let you land whatever the hell you want on your opponent.
My style has been very grounded lately and going back to strong fundamentals. It's gotten me way further than I've ever been.
AV, I love you man, you speak truth!! Gospel! Preach!!
THE OUTRO SONG. How did I never listen to it before???
Very good info
Fundamentals absolutely do matter. As does aggression, position and defensive counters.
I have been in an outrageous number of street fights, so my knowledge is coming form an absolute practical knowledge base , and not gym time or theory.
So how do you learn how to position yourself to land a strike?
could it be the case that focusing on that kinds of details when learning is more important to teaching you little micro movements and points of balanmce which will be necessary when striking matters and the beauty of that form goes out the window? training the fine motopr skills and motor memory which is necessary for knowing how to strike in the momnent?
I agree with you man. My argument isa bit different, I'm not good at fighting or sparring, but generally I feel going with my gut and what I feel is best for different situations is better than sticking to the standard. Since the standard can be very predictable, but I think it also depends on the opponent and how you want to approach the fight. I'm not saying to discard all form and injure yourself with bad form because that's dumb, but I'm saying we got to change our styles to better fight our opponents styles.
Fundamentals are the foundation. You still need to build the house. Weak fundamentals in any sports is a disadvantage and create dangerous holes in your game . Positioning, angles and strategies etc.. come into and you grasp them through experience ( sparring and drills). .somebody said that more than 200 years .
Almost 400 years ago
The point could be not to over-emphasize form, once you‘ve cleared your tool set from self-harming behavior and once you have functional body mechanic moves available. For what I tried to reach when teaching others was an improvement in movement functionality on the student‘s side.
the outro is absolutley sound😂👍🏻
Most of the best strikers in mma literally have their hands low, adesanya,dillashaw,McGregor. Cruz literally throws with the worst traditional tech and he lands a lot of what he wants at will.
Cruz is a great example of how positioning trumps technique lol
Correct
Its about position
That's what i got taught in the beginning
Basic drills etc
Plus basic footwork drills.
And so on
Sparring drills
Technical Sparring.
That helps to understand position etc
Hard sparring
Is not a good tool...
..
Not unless you understand position already
Dricus Du Plessis is the embodiment of this video. Very informative!!!
This is one of those concepts like training amnesia, where once youre at a different level you forget how you got there. Its like what Bruce Lee said. When you're a beginner, a punch is just a punch. Once you're intermediate, a punch has all the details added so you can perfect your form and make it a better punch. Once you're advanced, a punch is just a punch. The technical details are how you advance in your strategy overall. Techniques are the building block to your strategy. It takes a long time to get good and along that path people forget you start somewhere.
I must say that fundamentals matters if and only if you care about position and strategy.