Why Balan Wonderworld Was Doomed From The Start
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- Опубліковано 15 кві 2021
- Apologies if we accidentally called Balan Wonderworld "Balan Wonderland" at any point in this video. Oopsie.
Yuji Naka and Naoto Ohshima's latest collaboration, Balan Wonderworld, hasn't exactly taken the world by storm. The Square-Enix developed game teaches us an important lesson: if your company is known primarily for making roleplaying games, it's maybe a bit much to expect your developers to create eighty different unique control methods for a 3D action platformer in the space of two years.
Just a suggestion.
The same goes for Arzest - we didn't name Naoto Ohshima's development company specifically, but they too aren't exactly platformer experts. Again, just sayin'.
By the way, have you noticed how we're now a third of the way through 2021, Sonic the Hedgehog's big thirtieth anniversary year, and yet there are zero new Sonic games that are public knowledge? Nothing. Nada.
I'm just sayin', it's weird.
This video, by the way, shows off a little of the work Matthew is doing on Moptopus. As you can see...it's a long way from completion! In fact, it might be parked for a while yet to come. That's okay. It's fine to go slow sometimes.
Anyways, lots of love to all of you.
BretonStripes ( / bretonstriped ) and Matthew ( / kotorcomics )
Sources:
www.techradar.com/uk/news/bal...
jp.ign.com/balan-wonderworld/...
www.nintendo-insider.com/bala...
www.ign.com/articles/balan-wo...
• PS5で80種類のアクションはすべて手触り感... - Ігри
So basically the gameplay specialists were writing, the writers were animating, and the animators were handling gameplay
Can’t put it in any better words, Perfect description
Wow yea kinda
One thing is to understand those 3 areas. But doing it, where you are not familiarized? Is like telling a 3 years old child to teach an adult about quantum physics. And ifthat's the case, how the writters did special effects, where everyone said were great back then? The gameplay and Story creation are WAY different, where the common comparison point, at most, of a Story and the gameplay is the Storytelling, not the creating story.
Okay but for real the pre-rendered cutscenes were good.
Tbh, the cutscenes were good, the story was ok, could have been better and not relly on a book, but what actually killed the game foe real was the gameplay, the game feels kind of empty and so many costumes, each with a "specific" move is not only hard to make, it also took from the game more than what it actually added, they should have made idk, 2/3 per world.
Poor Balan, his job is to help people with negative feelings, but all he did was create negativity all over the world.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Balan the Wise?
It's ironic. He could save others from negativity...*but not himself!*
He deosn't deal with negative feelings...He deals them.
So basically Domino effect but worse
I believe Lance had gotten the upper hand behind Balan’s back and was able to allow his negative influence to affect the fourth wall and beyond. So in the end, Lance, the antagonist, won in a fourth wall sense. Little did they know, the villain had already won.
He meant to do an Inside Out but ended up with the Cars sequels instead.
Red flag #1: Assuming that reading one book automatically makes you a story telling genius
Red flag #2: Declaring yourself a success long before your first product is even out
Red flag #3: Quantity over Quality
Red flag #4: Thinking kids are too stupid to know how to press more than one button
Red flag #5 is the demo is bad you should delay it
and the final nail in the coffin is don't release it the same date as the next installment to the monsters hunter franchise.
@@joshhallam4555 By the time the demo came out the game was too close to release for a delay to really do anything, unless it was a 2 year delay so they could throw everything away and start from scratch.
@@joshhallam4555 Who thought that was a good idea? A new IP versus an established one. Not to mention Rise was a game people where waiting for since World.
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 I'm pretty sure Square sent this game out to die. They most likely saw how bad it was, knew it was gone to bomb, and decided to push it out as soon as possible, to avoid spending any more money, on what was a colossal sink.
Red flag # 6 : putting trust in Arzest to make this game. You know, the geniuses behind New Island
The world would be a utopia if more game designers realized that they needed specialized writers for their games
On the other hand, we'd never get the sheer insanity of Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy.
And half of the best parts of comic books came from amateur writers being allowed to completely embrace their first instincts. (Also, many of the worst.)
Newer forms of media are often explored this way...
But you'd think game companies would at least figure out the importance of a ghost writer who can flesh out of the concepts and a script doctor who can add polish and tie it all together.
@@juststatedtheobvious9633 That's why OP said "specialized writers." That implies someone who is familiar with the medium and its capabilities. I, for one, am a firm believer that video games have more potential than any other medium in the ways of storytelling. Offering a much more immersive perspective to the story is something that sometimes people don't take advantage of, and the crux of writing a story for a video game is integrating the narrative within the gameplay. A video game's story doesn't have to be unbearably complex, it just has to mesh well with the gameplay to create the experience, and that's where I think a lot of people run into a hurdle. Just like how with film, you can use an artistic vision to integrate visuals and cinematography to tell the story unlike any other medium, with video games it's even MORE of an experience you feel. One example of a video game I like to bring up that perfectly encapsulates this design philosophy of integrating the narrative within the gameplay is The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask. Without giving an in-depth analysis on the design of the game, the symbolism and art direction combined with the mechanics of the game offer an experience that makes Link feel less like the main character, and by putting more of an emphasis on the sidequests, it shifts the focus to the people of Termina as a whole and how unique they all are in their nature, but how they all share the one common catharsis of having to grieve with their imminent death. It's not a straightforward story about one character like in many other games, but for a game that is almost 21 years old, it still stands its ground today as being a masterclass in video game storytelling.
Basically, there should be more people who are designated as the director of the game whose job it is to oversee the overall design philosophy of the game and how a story can be told with it. I think that a game that has a strong gameplay design and narrative that are intertwined is what makes a game amazing. And, obviously, you need the appropriate team of people working with the director who are able to understand their vision as well. Just as you wouldn't have a cast full of people who usually do musicals and comedies perform in a drama (unless they're actually good at doing both.)
@@juststatedtheobvious9633 Both of those game series are well written in general, even their worst entries don't have writing that's that bad, and when they come short on writing the gameplay's even better to compensate. With comic books I get what you're saying and you're kinda right, but the ones we remember fondly are always the better-written ones.
Yeah, even if you want some famous game designer on the writing creds you should still give them some supporting writers.
@@manwithlongnose2810 Oye! You get back in the limo hurdling through a blue endless vortex and combine my Jojo stands, you hunchback suspicious butler you!
@@Azure1013 Well said!
My man left Sonic to make a separate game and still flopped. I really feel for him. I really do...
I mean, that probably means he should take a step back to reevaluate his approach at that point.
@@gomichow Either that or go take a look at the rabbits down the shotgun barrel.
He should've known better, though.
Like how Gamefreak finally tried at making a new Game after years of making the same tosh and it still
flopped
@@TheGrandRevo Game freak made other games then pokemon for years now, but the one you're refering to(i can't even remember the name) was such a mess, it was not worth it to what they did to sword/shield
This should've been a movie. Most of the parts where it shines is its visuals
yeah
it plays terrible but looke pretty good
I love the Visuals too, but the storytelling was way too scant.
You can see the complete Cutscene movie on YT, but it's literally only dancing to the same 3 songs for half the runtime.
At least in the Cutscenes
...I cannot agree that it shines visually. The way some of the levels undulate caused me to feel nautious when playing the demo. And those unsettlingly large hands on the character design, especially in the human form of the two protatgonists...
@@Stephen-Fox I believe that they are talking about the cinematic cutscenes when you boot up the game for the first time and the ending cutscenes. In other words, the CG cutscenes.
"One button to rule them all."
-Yuji Naka
In his deffense, Sonic was also a One-Button Game.
@@hypnospaceoutlaw3376 yeah, in 1991
@@hypnospaceoutlaw3376 One button game?
@@zacariasvelazquez8400 In a 2D platformer no less.
@@manuelalbertoromero9528 do you know what a one button game is? Is it a game where only the jump button is the main action besides moving?
Glad I’m not the only one constantly saying Wonderland instead of Wonderworld. It just feels right
We checked this three times to make sure we got it right and we still got it wrong 😅
Balan Wonder[insert your choice of word here]
Balan WonderIsland
@@VideoGameStoryTime It's the Mandela effect. Don't feel bad.
@@BeretBay Balan wonder territory
Yuji Naka isn't a game director. His work on Sonic was related to coding for the groundwork of the engine, it's why he often messed up direction of games in the past too. He was put on a pedestal from that first success and suffered ever since.
The biggest problem that this wasn't 100% his idea it's actually Shinji Hashimoto to compete in the platformer market and Naka is not what I would call competitive or at least not now a day's.
@@orangeslash1667 I remember Shinji Hashimoto had a similar idea in the early 2000s for a game that could complete with Mario, which ended up becoming the basis for Kingdom Hearts
Same with Keiji Inafune and Megaman. Their names got associated with the franchise far more than they deserved and they rode that credit until they inevitably crashed.
@@Super_Suchi Inafune was just a random junior illustrator and minor character designer. He didn't even create Megaman. How he hustled his way to the top is a mystery. Is this just a common thing in Japanese companies I wonder?
nice demi fiend pfp
He was thinking "If I make one of the power ups good then the rest will be useless" when he should have been thinking "How do I make all of the power ups so good that it's hard to choose which one you want to use and switch regularly just for fun"
Exactly. That's why the Ratchet & Clank games were so successful.
Like Pokemon. There are so many to chose from that every Pokemon is somebodies favorite. They all have different roles to fulfill on a team. Or Monster Hunter. Every weapon type is good in their own way.
Exactly, i feel like he spent too much time reading a book that just ended up being completely fruitless for the game's story, where he could have spent that time playing games similar to what he wanted to make.
He should have played a Kirby game, tbh, each power-up feels different but good (for the most part) and they usually don't have one action to make, lol.
@@bio826 My thoughts precisely.
From this, I take that you should make everything essentially complete or whole in its implementation and give it stylistic differences, rather than actual legitimate limitations.
Honestly the fact that Yuji Naka thought he could write a masterpiece from one book that wasn't even a tutorial book feels... idk, he _is_ a man of many talents, but it's surprising that he didn't grasp the scope of things.
Just following up, after looking at the plot from the Wikipedia page, it feels like something that at best would be a children's story with growth and redemption being the point of it. But there's no conflict in that.
I wouldn't even care if the story was rubbish, but the game itself just doesn't look or feel good once you're actually playing.
@@nibli It's a real shame because I have a soft spot for supernatural entities devoted to the salvation of humanity and the style is there. Just... nothing else.
Idk this feels more like a Square Enix exec telling him to get on with it and him feeling unable to push back against the demands of head office.
@Danshaku Lawrence
It's called Dunning and Kruger. Basically, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as you can't know how much you don't know yet.
Which is why the ignorant almost always overestimate their intelligence and capabilities. And the wise often think themselves fools, but in very specific terms that allow them to accurately target each weakness.
-QTEs
-Focus on cinematics
-Half baked controls
Are you sure David Cage didn't work on this?
But there are twelve buttons for jumping, and not one for shouting "Jason"...
Also the final boss can cause seizures.
@@nettune9980X a lot of games can do that, idk why people bring that up for this game only... .-.
Neo noah Um 1 not a lot of games cause seizures and 2 there's no warning about that, and it make sense To warned people so they would not have a seizure and possibly die.
That depends. How much misogyny is in the story line?
To be honest, this game's concept should have been a movie or better yet, an on-stage musical since it gives out Disney vibes. More vibes than actual Disney.
I agree. THE OPENING CUTSCENE IS PURE EYE-CANDY.
ot should have been like puppeter for ps3 was.
Totally look at all these character designs
If they had pitched this as a movie, I would have watched it. Bright colors, cool characters, interesting take on the old Wonderland concept- it would have been worth a movie ticket from me, at least.
Yeah they are totally going for a Theater setting here, it would have fit like a glove!
As a dev, the issue I saw was not only their unfamiliarity with developing for a different genre, but consistently adding more and more complexity to the project, not giving enough time to actually properly test it, and overall being too ambitious. Whatever priority you increase, the others will decrease. And sometimes you literally just can't do everything. Little focus, every priority then suffered.
@Elijah Clayton
Check out the Lego platformers.
They're not the best games ever made, but they're similar in the collection gimmick, and in the ridiculous amount of powers on tap. Unlike Wonder World, however, you quickly discover that many of the powers overlap between characters, because the top priority is interacting with the game world.
No character is allowed to be completely useless. (Although Superman can do way more than Bruce Wayne, for obvious reasons.)
So, you're basically able to beat the game only using a dozen or so characters, with half of those powers basically behaving like Metroidvania keys and the other half being related to attack/travel... but they'll all have unique cosmetic effects, and stories that try to give the characters individuality.
And that's really all a collector needs to justify collecting 80 or more characters, even if they'll rarely use many of them.
“Little focus, every priority then suffered”
That’s particularly true of the costumes.
@Elijah Clayton Lower stakes, rather than making hundreds of costumes with generic abilities they should make only a few that are useful in game, or even make them just a cosmetic while abilities being a separate thing of customes.
@Elijah Clayton 2-3 costumes per world tops.
Actually make a main control scheme thats universal between all costumes and only add or modify the action that each costume can do.
Make the story npcs actually relate to the characters in some way.
Make the girls story actually relatable.
Improve on the balan/lance plot point.
Not make a book about the game story and actually Focus to put it in the game.
Make some adjustiments to certain gameplay features.
They could also keep the 80 costumes and change the gameplay to a turn rpg with pokemon-like gameplay using those costumes.
I think these things would make for a better game, not really a good one, but certainlly way better than what we got.
It sounds like a problem that happened with most Kickstarter games
This entire story feels 1:1 with how a first time developer fumbles
Kinda shocking, given the main directors were veteran devs.
@@XanthinZarda Exactly
I mean, it seems like they where banking on selling it to little kids, which was a marketing mistake since kids usually prefer action or other violent games instead of stuff like this
Most mistakes with this seem to go from a failure of basic concepts of development, which sounds odd considering that the issue is supposedly that it was their first time with the genre, not their first time developing games
I wonder who was truly in charge of the project and accepted these decisions, i understand Yuji Naka had a bunch of control?
Balan Wonderland was a case of a development team implementing every idea they thought sounded cool without seriously considering how they’d all work together.
So basically Sonic ‘06. History repeats itself.
I feel like Nintendo is doing something similar with Smash Ult right now. Putting things in because it's cool but end up making the gameplay even more open to degenerate toxicity. Even some of the patches and balance changes they do feel like they not even considering if maybe said changes will only make things worse.
@@samuelgarza2466 expect Sonic 06 has better story
I'm amazed.
How did he manage to feel so confident in his story telling abilities that he'd release a novel... AND THEN HAVE THE GAME NOT TELL ANY OF IT?
Top tier. Wonderful. Marvelous. You put the story of your game in side material that doesn't come included with the base game.
How did anyone at Square okay that?
Same people that decided to chop FF XV's story up into a gajillion pieces, load it into a birdshot and blast it across multiple forms of media, up to and including an anime before the gane itself even launches.
@@namkha209 Kingdom Hearts devs be like 'Is that it?'
@@KingOfElectricNinjas bruh, swear. Especially with that 3rd game lol
That's how square does things.
Because Yuji Naka is terrible.
I don't know who the lady is that voices these segments, but they do a stellar job! It feels like I'm being read to by a kindergarten teacher, so soothing to listen to after a long day.
Kawaii ikr ^^
@@MogusMasterSaikawa22 so cute!!
💖💖💖
To be clear, Naka and Oshima weren't involved in Sonic Boom as both had left Sega long before development had begun on it. Oshima left in 1999 following Adventure, and Naka halfway through the development of Sonic 06.
A great point, those making the comparisons are merely comparing Balan to these games because of the familiar feeling of Sonic fans being left underwhelmed.
@@VideoGameStoryTime One has to wonder why this sort of stuff keeps happening with people connected to that franchise in some shape or form (Not counting the people that MAY have jumped ship to Nintendo to work on certain game, like Super Mario Odyssey).
@@manuelalbertoromero9528 some of them returned some months ago tho, they seem to be helping with SEGA'S new Sonic project
@@manuelalbertoromero9528 Odyssey had a strong Sonic Adventures feel about it when i first saw the first teaser/trailer featuring New Donk City, it all makes sense now if ex-Sonic devs also worked on it
@@etherealhatred really where did you here this if you don’t mind me asking
The moral of the story: The bigger the expectations, the harder the fall from grace.
Actually, the moral is Don't Bite Off More Than You Can Chew.
@@hypnospaceoutlaw3376 Yeah, that sounds better
Cyberpunk 2077 in nutshell
@@tatarchan5212 yeah, when we Will learn about ganes like that?
@@tatarchan5212 No man's sky at launch
Balan Wonderworld is like he over heard someone explaining Persona 4 to child and decided it would make a great story for a spiritual successor to NiGHTS.
AND trying to stick it to his former Sonic Team employees who went on to work on Mario Odyssey by trying to do Odyssey's gimmick better.
Balan Wonderworld is the Video Game equivalent to Sea Monkeys. The box makes it look cool, but when you actually get them, it just leaves you numb.
One good way to make a costume more exciting to play is to *not remove the jumping ability*
Yeah, I hate the dainty dragon skin, the jump isn't there
2:56 “He wanted the game to have phenomenal depth”
Makes game with single button control
Nice one there
@@UntrueAir I think what makes a game like Kirby air ride work is the fact that the entire game is designed around that one action. With the entire game built around that action, you can build depth even with one core mechanic. That’s where Balan fails as it lacks a central mechanic as every one of the 80+ costumes only has one action meaning the game can’t be built around that one action which turns the limited one button control scheme to something that makes the game more frustrating rather than simple.
Yeah you can make a game with one button but the way balan is desinged one button dosent make the cut
Moral of the system: Take time on development and hire game developers that are familiar with certain game elements
Easier said than done. Naka is new to the company. I imagine Square wouldn't put all their faith in him.
Like Hilda's goal in Three Houses said, "Stick with what you know."
@@aaronbeasley974 And if you don't want to do so, at least get some help from people with the right knowledge to help you with it.
“A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.”
-Shigeru Miyamoto
@@Claro1993 Duke Nukem Forever: "Are you sure about that?"
Development started: 1997 Released: 2011.
I'm currently reading the book, and each scene makes me sadder and sadder because it really shows that they had a vision, and the game just absolutely failed to show it.
When you’re Adding 80 power ups
in a already convoluted game *That’s NO Good*
I honestly agree that they should've lowered the number of Costumes but at least they have SOME differences between them (Not a lot of differences of course, but still.)
@@hypnospaceoutlaw3376 -_-
Or maybe have the costumes need to be leveled up? Like balan makes the costumes but is weakened so he can't make them very good, and the collectables give him strength to make stronger costumes with better abilities?
I would argue the Box fox costume is not a power up, but a power down. Randomly Turning into a box is a stupid idea. And who ever thought that was a good idea should be fired.
Ah yes a classic "Sonic Says" quote
hope everyone is having a lovely day
"... it would have 80 different types of action, but i thought... i would run out of steam at around 40"
thEN LEAVE IT AT FORTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY-
Honestly, the story’s concept actually was pretty good. From the start, I was captivated by Balan, I was like “Who is this? What is this place? I want to know more about all this” and the game never elaborates. Ironically, despite being the guy on the cover, you never see much of Balan.
Here’s hoping the Book can answer those questions better.
That "gotta go slow" hit different
Now to listen to Apotos theme
choctopus's idea with the qte missions was actually really cool
it was already revolving around dancing for some reason
so why not embrace that aspect and just make it a rhythm game pf
Why didn't square enix step in and say, "guys this development is disjointed and inefficient, we have to think it over and start again"?.
money
@@justalonglongtime Usually, sunk cost fallacy. They'd already spent a lot of money during development, so restarting the whole development would add more cost.
The Kingdom Hearts director said he loved the story :P
Dude, square isn't all that bright or creative, either. Not anymore, anyway.
@@CappuccinO80 he _would._
He...he had so much confidence in the game, he named his studio after it?
Oh no. Oh dear. That can't feel good
Yeah, look at how Sonic Team turned out
*Ghost Corps:* sweats profusely
Somebody forgot to tell Yuji Naka how gaming has advanced since the dreamcast and that 1 button is allowed to do 1 thing.
He's the apple of platformers; noone else would "innovate" the removal of jumping
That's like if Apple got rid of earphone jacks...
...*oh wait*
@@megabuster3940 Cool profile you got there.
Captain Toad did it first, and that game is actually pretty good.
@@RandomNameLastName811 No disagreements there.
They made a platformer that has items (made to help you) that keep you from jumping.
A platformer
With items
Made to help you
That disable jumps
In a platformer
Mario: Not-a Good Plan
Sonic: That's No Good
They also made a powerup that randomly decides itself when it transforms into a box that takes away any control from the player.
Takes away control from the player
randomly
in a platformer.
in levels with death pits and slopes everywhere.
r/CertifiedBruhMoment
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementation.
I’m still waiting for the Nights and Dreams Remastered, Sega.
If you are referring to NiGHTS into Dreams it had a HD port years ago. I think its available on Steam...
Yeah I don't think they are going to have a sequel for NiGHTS because not only did the original writer leave, they forgot about them so it's mostly Sonic now
@@dancingbeans7696 Seriously, there's so many good Sega IPs that are just gathering dust. With the recent Panzer Dragoon remake, Wonder Boy 3 remake, Streets of Rage 4 and the upcoming Alex Kidd game, maybe sega is starting to see their value. I'm just desperate for an official Jet Set Radio sequel
@@dancingbeans7696 Wasnt there NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams that was on the wii?
@@thenormalpsycho4198 no I'm talking about after Journey of Dreams, that game was good. I'm talking about when they make a game after Journey of dreams which will most likely not happen due to the writer leaving Sega for Square Enix
The 80 costumes thing feels like when a kid wants to do something incredibly stupid, like eat a whole bucket of ice cream in one sitting. And their parents don't let them, because they know the end result.
Basically, Yuji Naka needed an adult to come and smack the costumes idea out of the game.
It could work, like in Kameo: Elements of Power (pare it down to a few costumes and design levels with those in mind). I think Naka's holding onto some kind of inferiority complex with Mario, though.
@@Virjunior01 Kameo worked because it had 12 powers, not 80.
@@orangeslash1667 "pare it down to a few costumes" is what I said. Also to "design levels with those in mind."
@@Virjunior01 The biggest problem that this what Shinji Hashimoto's idea and he wanted Yuji Naka to compete in the platformer market but Naka is not a competitive person.
Yeah, if you're going to have a large number of movesets, they need to each be usable for only a limited time and for a few particular situations, rather than being constantly available. Mario Odyssey does this very well (though I think even Odyssey only has about 30 captures once you exclude inanimate objects and near-duplicates). If you want each moveset to be an ever-present option, then there should be a smaller number of them and each one should be fleshed out.
Honestly if Balan got a second chance and somehow got a sequel it could probably be very good the character design and the charm is there all its missing is the gameplay.
Square said "you only have one chance" to Naka when they greenlit Balan. Balan is dead.
He's dead man
If the dude sucked at writing stories, he should have left that to someone who didn't.
Usually people that suck at something still do it because they DON´T KNOW that they suck at it xd
*and also if you just never do something you will suck in that even more so- it is like that sometimes(?*
@@maucazalv903 Except the dude himself knew it and still decided to make a AAA game his testing grounds.
@@Marburg-chan in the video its said that he read one book and thought he was a writing genius so its safe to say he didnt know he sucked
@@cube1148 He knew he was bad, that's why he read the book, maybe if he just had paired up with the ex-sega writer from the start, Balan wonderworld wouldn't have turned out this bad.
@@Marburg-chan but he thought he was bad before reading the book and then after reading the book he thought he could write
This is proof that you don't need to be good to get a job, you just need to get your foot in first in the industry to get other jobs.
To be fair, Naka is a legitimately talented programmer.
He just keeps trying to do things that aren't programming.
@@HeavySighSA Hopefully his next project will be better or he surround himself with people that tells him no
@@CerealKiller maybe he just wants to try new things, but he’s not even sure how to do that... 😐
It took me 5 years of study and practice before I felt capable of writing a basic novel. This guy read 1 book and declared himself a master of narratives.
It took me over a decade of writing to feel confident enough in anything I was writing to not feel like it was deviantart quality.
Classic Dunning-Kruger in full force here.
I'm starting to see a trend of old developers making their own games just to flopped because of tunnel vision.
Another problem is when old developers are involved in kickstarters that ask too much or fail to make aaa games, that's why indie games are really important.
So Basically: "I'm gonna read a book about something I know nothing about, and make a game about it. *My work here is done."*
Apparently the novelization isn't too bad according to people who read it, just basic, but at least it hit the majority of story basics.
The neat little update on Moptopus was a nice and welcomed Easter-egg! I definitely agree that the lack of Sonic announcements is strange, given its milestone anniversary. Maybe they'll announce something at E3, like how Nintendo planned to announce Mario's 35th, last year.
Once they advertised 80 unique transformations I got a strong feeling expectations wouldn't be delivered.
I still thought it would still at least be good tho...
Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow has 116 power-ups (souls), one per enemy, and they're all great. Number isn't the problem, they lacked focus.
How much did Mario Odyssey have? I know it probably wasn't like 80 but it was still pretty numerous. But I like the capture mechanic though.
@@coolyeh1017 odyssey has 52 captures
@@rifasclub There's a lot of souls that are functionally similar or straight up better versions of one another, but that works because it's a metroidvania, you have to unlock them, and unlocking them isn't even guaranteed. They designed it with obsolescence and randomness in mind.
I remember being so excited cause Balan's design reminded me of Nights. And then it turned out to be a plataformer...
"Go deeper before you go wider" Brandon Sanderson
"It was challenging to think of the pros and cons for every action"
How could randomly turning into a box you have no control over possibly have any pros??
I guess you can say that this dreamy wonderworld end up become a underworld nightmare.
Beautiful name and pfp you have, and I couldn't agree more. And to think I was initially about to pay $60 for it at first.
@@johnbakasmoothhotchocolate bruh moment
How original. 😑
You know, I actually came up with a Platforming Game of my own [I thought up the concept when I felt the game wouldn't do so good]. I call it "Dreamland". In it, you play as an orphan child [Boy: Alex, Girl: Alice] who comes across an indoor amusement park run by an animatronic by the name of Yume. In the game, you go to all these attractions exploring all these worlds, all while discovering secrets and uncovering a mystery that all is not as it seems...
You should make it!
That would be Cool, it may be scarier if the Park was already abandoned in the first place
You might want to change the title name to not confuse it with Kirby’s dreamland
Isn’t dreamland the name for the kingdom in Kirby? Maybe you should change it (this is just a suggestion btw)
@@VideoGameStoryTime First I need to know how to make games. :)
I actually love this channel the drawing s are so charming not mention nothing is rambled on about when they have nothing more to discuss they stop and that's why I am subscribed
Thank you so much! I'm glad you appreciate that our videos are focused, we put a lot of effort into that!
Now I know why Miyamoto is afraid of stories on videogames
Yuji Naka after reading 1 book: "I'm a f*king genius!"
As someone who is learning about game design, I’m intrigued by the decision to have 80 powerups for a number of reasons, especially when he said it was to make the gameplay have “phenomenal depth.”
First, I make a comparison to Kirby and its copy abilities. Kirby Star Allies has the most copy abilities out of any game in the series at 28, plus 14 Dream Friends, yet each of them have different strengths and weaknesses (if I may include some abilities not in Star Allies in this roundup: Sword/Fighter/Spear’s well-rounded movesets, Suplex/Whip/Beetle’s grappler nature, Cleaning/Doctor/Artist’s raw utility, Poison/Spider’s area coverage, Archer’s far reach but below average CQC, Bomb’s splash damage, Fire/Ice/Water/Spark’s elements, Hammer’s obscene power but poor reach, Staff’s obscene reach but slow attack, Wheel/Missile/Tornado’s speed and damage, Wing/Jet’s great aerial mobility, Needle/Parasol/Leaf/Bell’s defensive moves, etc.). The games are super easy, but choosing abilities matters in the boss battles, especially The True Arena. With fewer abilities, it’s easier to design them around different styles. But with 80 costumes in Wonderworld, it’s impossible to make them all unique unless you take away things from the default moveset, like jumping. There’s going to be overlap because no one can design that many unique abilities at once.
Continuing with the copy abilities, Kirby’s Adventure had much more niche copy abilities like Wonderworld (their strengths and weaknesses were far more polarized due to the single move nature), but there were still “only” 24 of them. Even if there was some overlap (like Needle, Spark, and Freeze are all shields, Fire and Ice are frontal hitboxes, Cutter/Laser are projectiles), it wasn’t as much because the smaller number allowed the developers to think of more unique usage for all of them. And they were still somewhat different, providing strategy in your decision (for instance, fire can solve more environmental puzzles while ice would provide you with more projectiles from frozen enemies). And this is to say nothing of the combo systems of the Dark Matter Saga, between animal friends in DL2 and 3 and mix abilities in K64, which opened up choice and strategy a ton.
There’s a great Extra Credits video about “Depth vs Complexity,” and the image they use helps make things clearer: number increases complexity, which increases the length of the pool, not the depth. Balan Wonderworld has a super long pool, not a deep one. This could probably be fixed by combining some abilities into single costumes, and theme them with different advantages and disadvantages in terms of power, movement, range, etc.
To me hearing this kind of stories makes me wonder how much of a role did this developers have in games they worked on. Just because someone was part of Naughty Dogs team while in the making of The Last of Us 2 doesn't always mean they done the most important, complex and fascinanting thing of that videogame, it could be something as simple like making background bushes.
@@nidohime6233 Apparently, there was a guy in Red Dead Redemption 2 who was solely responsible for horse physics.
@@FedoraKirb Of course. Someone had to do those perfect horse testicles XD
Shigeru Miyamoto to the Mario development team: Okay, so we need to come up with something great for the new Mario game. Anyone have any ideas?
Designer: We could implement 3 new power ups and take inspiration from books for levels!
Shigeru: Good idea, level designer 1!
Yuji Naka to the Balan Wonderworld team: Okay, so I read one word of one page from a book, so I thought we could turn this book into a game. All we need are power ups.
Level designer: How about implementing every idea that comes to someone's head?
Yuji: Great idea, designer! I have one idea. Add a power up that disables the ability to jump!
Entire team: Wow, what an amazing idea! This is definitely gonna beat Mario!
By the way for the aspiring writers, the book that Naka should Have read is the Writer's journey by Christopher Volger. It focus on the application of the monomyth on screenwritting and is a quite a common recommandation for aspiring screenwritter.
Nobody:
Literally Nobody:
Yuji Naka: Good day, gentlemen. I am here to change the future.
How about Yuji Naka goes back to the past and just make Sonic 06 actually good.
@@chrisfarleyshrek4347 No need, it already was.
Everybody:
Literally everbody:
Fixed
@@genyakozlov1316 say what you will, but it really wasn't.
Think of your nostalgia in terms of the era.
I will NEVER go back to Super Mario Brothers on NES, because it wasn't really that fun to play. It was mindblowing for the time it came out, and I played it to death as a 6 or 7 year old, but... it doesn't change the fact that it was the best there was *at the time.*
Even Megaman 1 holds up way better than SMB.
Despite how Balan ultimately turned out, I’d feel depressed if Naka ultimately retired from the industry after this. He did say this could be his last chance to make a platformer at one point. I believe he still has some great ideas that would make for phenomenal games-given just how well Balan’s concept resonated with people if nothing else. But it’ll take another hand on the wheel in the concept/writing department and the right group of people in the design department to make those ideas a reality.
isn't he more of a programmer, NOT a writer? bro. imo, hopefully ohshima gets more work, his style made people interested in the game from first glance.
I really want Yuji Naka to be seen as just Japan's John Romero.
Once seen as a legend and attached to legendary products, but the moment he was out on his own it was shown that he was not this brilliant game dev master, and it was really the work of other, much more talented people that legendary games great, and those people were sadly robbed of the spotlight.
I don't think we should be nice about these things. "Oh they worked really hard" is such a common excuse but really, you'd be hard pressed to find people that *don't* work hard on most train wrecks with *famous* people at the top. When your lead has bad ideas, it's the people working for you, making less money, that have to "work hard" to salvage it. Saying they "worked hard" is obvious. It not a real defense. In fact I think it proves the opposite! You have to work HARDER on bad ideas just to make them playable. Working harder means something is very wrong at the core of the design. I feel so sorry for the people that had to come to work every day for months, knowing this game was salvageable. That has to hurt your mental health.
Look at Yuji Naka's timeline and it all adds up to a person that really had little to do with *why* sonic was great but he took all the credit, and then passively was sabotaging Sonic for the sake of his own ideas.
Lets call it what it is, ego, and I'm more sorry for the people that had to work for him to bring his terrible ego driven visions to life.
The fact that they tough that balan wonderworld will be a long and super successful franchise is actually hilarious to me!
Hilarious- but also utterly tragic ;u;
Let's hope he finds more suited developers for his vision next time.
Imagine accidently jumping into the sonic 06 phase of your new franchise.
r/CertifiedBruhMoment
Sonic 06 is miles better, i can have a lot of fun even with the town missions in that game
He sacrificed depth for breadth😓
"Sonic's dad tricks Final Fantasy into making Mario Odyssey, and everyone hated it"
The sad part is that from the presentation alone, this game could’ve been amazing.
By presentation alone it's an uncanny mario odyssey rip off
Balan Wonderworld? More like Balan Underworld* techno music starts playing *
This project sounds like Dunning-Kruger effect 101
He read a single book on the topic, so his confidence was over the top and ignored the reality
Same applies on how the rest of the development was handled apparently
I guess the true message is: "If it's the first time you do something, don't assume it will be easy or enough"
It's really interesting how the one-button control scheme is a good aspect of the classic Sonic games and a negative aspect of Balan Wonderworld- honestly, I think it's just symptomatic of the way the game was developed- they tried to put things that succeeded elsewhere into a context that wouldn't suit them.
Sonic has 2 buttons. Down functions as a button since it's not a direction you move in 2D.
@@achan1058 It's on the d-pad, it counts as a directional I put
@@michaelpuglisi6767 Your reasoning is exactly the same mistake that Yuji Naka made. He thought it was OK to make a 1 button game in 3D because it was OK in 2D, when he didn't realize that he was actually having 1 less button than he was in 2D functionally. Whether it was on the D-pad doesn't matter. Crouch could have been mapped to R2 instead of (or in addition to) down, just like the 2D sections of Super Mario Odyssey.
@@achan1058 Didn't my original comment say that the one button control scheme was a mistake in 3D?
@@michaelpuglisi6767 My point is that it would be a mistake in 2D too, if you aren't allowed to use up or down as button.
They should have just made the game about balan and made him the playable character.
Honestly I was so hyped for this game, but playing the demo, especially after finishing A Hat in Time, it just felt so weird. This game had so much potential, the character designs were so cool
That's also the huge thing, AHiT did the basic gimmick of the game so much better, switching hats was instant, you're not drowning in dozens of hats that don't feel distinctive, you don't lose the ability to jump while wearing hats, and you don't lose hats if you get hit.
And AHiT is what? $20, and Wonderworld is $60
@@robindaybird WONDERWORLD IS 60 BUCKS?!
@@chaosinc.382 yes, yes it is when the demo feels like a $30 game *At best*
@@chaosinc.382 I saw the prices on Amazon and the PS4 and Nintendo Switch versions were worth $39.99 and Xbox One version was worth $59.99
"I'm not good with stories, I'll stick with action and platforming."
Me: Except even that is really bare bones....
3 things could have saved this game
1: An additional year of development time
2: Better control scheme with less powerups (25 should have been the limit)
3: Focus more on exploration and enemy frequency other than the linear level design
Oh and remove the awful, mandatory mini games
3:18 'If we made them unique, people would choose that one same costume' So instead you made them all bland and roughly the same so people wouldn't have a costume they preferred to keep using, instead just accepting whatever flavor of 'jump' or 'punch' costume you made specific for each world that popped up. Doesn't sound like a good decision to me.
Man, it must just suck to be Yuji Naka. Even after ditching Sega and Sonic his games are still shat on. All the while Shigeru Miyamoto's legacy is Godlike.
well it wasnt just naka it was sonic team
And the latter isn't directly making the game's proper. He's more of a producer at this point in time.
It's worse being Iizuka, he knows how to make good Sonic games but Sega screws him up everytime
I really loved Balan’s design (the character) and the trailer looked phenomenal... then we had the game
It was a very ambitious game, I can appreciate they wanted to be experimental and not go with the status-quo with what's safe. But 2 years for an inexperienced staff, it needed at least a year or two more in the oven. I really wanted this game to be good, I gave it an honest try.
Unfortunately Yuji Naka lost his magic long ago, just look at the utter dumpster fire Rodea was six years ago. Hell, Balan is just regurgitating NiGHTS' premise.
Then again he's always been a diva, his tantrums ultimately got Sonic X-Treme cancelled. His ego made him leave Sega, and with no one to control him, his work since has all been trash.
Hello, you!
@@VideoGameStoryTime Howdy! Great video BTW!!! Sorry, should have opened with that :P
Couldn't have said it better, Guru Larry! 😁
I thought Rodea on the wii (which was the version he made) was considered good.
@@tjlnintendo The Wii one was okay, but the Wii U one was a mess.
I already knew something was going to be wrong.
Ohshima actually left Sonic Team because of Naka, because both had different work styles,and they didn't exactly enjoy working with each other.
Wait, and then they got back together? Oh no
It's a shame how this game turned out the way it did. :(
When I first saw the reveal trailer for Balan, I was 'wondering' if the developers were inspired by the success of "A Hat in Time" and Mario Odyssey. The supposed selling point of eighty different costumes, including one that got viewers thinking of the Pokémon Wooloo, seemed like a massive, but ultimately poor expansion on the different hat abilities/captures.
"Balan Wonderworld" could have been a wonderful glimpse into the future of my newly found favorite platformer universe (AHiT). It is instead another example of video game development done seriously wrong.
I haven’t played Balan Wonderworld, but based off of what I have seen, I think what this game needs to make it... okay is:
more decoration so the levels don’t look bland
npcs not disappearing when you get close
some kind of dialogue telling you what your goal is (unless there is dialogue)
no dancing scene at the end of each “world”
half the buttons being a run button that also acts as the costume button (like mario); for some costumes, you could limit the jump or have it act as another action
spice up the gameplay for whatever those “Balan’s Bout” or whatever they’re called by making it quicker and have the player press more buttons
cut the minigame costumes
Drawn to life did this very well. It was a perfect balance of platforming with original mechanics abd a great story
This is just like when Michael Jordan tried to do baseball.
Except that MJ did it because his father always wanted him to be a baseball player, and he was concerned if he didn't do it then, his father would die before seeing it.
This? There's no reasoning
4:00 *80 different powers*
Yea, one of the things I noted when I first started examining games design was that, while Mario had a lot more bespoke powers, Sonic's relatively few powers had a lot more utility. Like most of the Shields in Sonic 3 had a secondary ability that could be used to dodge fire or navigate the world more effectively.
the biggest mistake was calling the game "Balan Wonderworld" instead of "Balan WonderLAND" because literally nobody remembers to call it Wonderworld
I doubt anyone will remember it in 6 months either way. Sad to see
"balan wonderworld is a disaster"
Yes but tall hat man produces serotonin.
no
@@papieverett dude, just make your own comment, i am literally just saying i like the character balan.
@@cyanity1017 no
@@papieverett yes
Wonderfully made! Especially love the ending with the tip. Thanks xD
I love this channel. No loud music in the background, no annoying voice. It just gets right to the point.
I'm suprised no one realized that 36 costumes over 12 worlds would make way more sense.
"Pride cometh before the fall...."
RIP Yuji Naka's career ( T ^T)
“I was never really good with stories”
Yeah sounds like a sonic game developer alright
This is my speculation so take it with a grain of salt; I think the reason Balan didn't work out as well is because it rushed the prototype phase. Any game you make must start with a prototype where you make the core of the game work. If it's enjoyable to play, then you develop it further. I think the concept of 80 abilities wasn't implemented properly into the games core, which would make the progress even longer because you must make sure EVERY ability is fun to use and works in the games structure.
Also, two years to make a game in the AAA industry is too short. Most games take three years to finish for a reason. Even if Balan was delayed after the release of the demo, it might do more harm than good because it would impact the pre-planned budget and schedule, which might either lead to crunch, the game getting cancelled or the company going under.
It's a shame because Balan could've been amazing if done right. There's clearly a lot of love put into the game from the music, the fun character designs and the vast array of costumes, but the heart to hold itself together isn't there. That's the best way I can describe Balan Wonderworld.
They can totally fix this game if they want to make another version exclusively for the next gen consoles. I know its not common anymore to make entirely new versions of a game, but I think Balan Wonder had a lot of potential and if they want to really bring out that potential they're gonna need to do something big.
They're not going to do that.
Yeah. There are tons of old "forgotten" and "failed" games that if imported and/or fixed could be huge successes, like Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg and Harmoknight. Balan Wonderworld could definitely benefit from a fixed version.
@@jonahkim2029 Nothing needs to be fixed about Billy Hatcher, what we need is a damn sequel!
@@jonahkim2029 I'm going to repeat myself. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT. Someone might try, but it probably won't be Naka or anyone who worked on this game.
@@manuelalbertoromero9528 I never said it would happen, just that it would be nice if it did.
We managed to use the adaptive triggers on the PS5 to make them do the same action/jump as every face button EVEN MORE!!!
Even a dozen unique costumes and platforming elements is big ask, much less 80. That's just crazy.
The beautiful music, the wonder character designs, the psycho analysis of the characters told through the costumes and level design, and the clever question of "all these mysterious helper characters, who ever stops to help them?" And the classic 'we help ourselves most by help others' coming back not only in the final battle, but for Balan in the end too. All made this a game I sincerely enjoyed without sarcasm nor irony.
A lot of the costumes can't jump and the costume ideas are often used in one scenario and never used again. There are also multiple costumes that reuse the same abilities from another costume. The story is never really explained outside of the different areas and their problems, like why Balan is breaking a rock in Balan's bout sometimes and who the heck the supposed antagonist Lance is. The backstory animations for characters also play after the levels so you never really know why an area is designed or named a certain way until the end. The game often runs at a shockingly low framerate and freezes up frequently. Level ideas are more like just switching costume, using the power, and proceeding. Not much challenge, and with the game being marketed as a platformer you'd expect to have cool midair tricks like Mario's spin jumps, triple jumps, wall kicks, hat throws, but no. The hop is a short little thing that rarely gets you across and you have to switch through costumes to get one that spin jumps or floats for a little bit and then switch back to one that can't jump again to destroy a crate. There is absolutely no reason for the game to work with only one button, it just makes gameplay slower and makes it so there's no independent jump button for a lot of the costumes. I must say that the animations/cutscenes are stellar though and the ideas are also cool (just not preformed in the right way at ALL)
I don't mean to be rude by the way, you can like the game. I'm just pointing out things that make Balan Wonderworld not worth the expensive price point.
@@tbhandrew5857 Of course some costumes have repeat abilities. Wearing the costume of a Star fleet officer instead of a rebel soldier in Star Wars may give you the same technical abilities of a phaser vs a blaster... but they wouldn't fit. You're inside a person's personal psycho drama. The entire game is taking place on a stage. Wearing a costume that does't fit with the setting can be worse than wearing no costume!
@@tbhandrew5857 The cut scenes happen when they do because you're forcing them to remember their trauma, that's what the heart-piece and cage symbolism. The monsters you fight are actively trying to stop you from unburying their memories. That's when you see them in their stages, they're always passive and happy, they've BURIED their painful memories.
@@XX-sp3tt
1) then they should have cut down on the people so that the costumes wouldn't get repetitive
2) Have you SEEN the costumes? How does a fire breathing dragon make since in a farmer's world or box fox with the plane guy?
3) The costumes arent exclusive to the levels they are introduced. Many times you need to collect costumes then go back to previous stages to collect items
4) the game foes a terrible job at showcasing the theater aspect to a point that you forget that your on a theater.
5) the bosses nor levels are not good representations of trauma as neither forces you to deal with the underlying problem the person is facing. They are just generic levels with generic samey bosses.
I really like this take. The in-game storytelling is definitely not the culprit for the poor reception, and I find this narrative of game-dev hubris gone wrong most people are presenting as quite overstated.
With how great the cutscenes were, I feel like the game would've made a better movie than a game. :Y Not to mention, they made an extremely cool character; Balan, who I think should've been more utilized. Balan gives off so much of a Nights vibe, with a little bit of that Sonic feeling to it with the style. I feel like the budget for the game went more into the cutscenes instead of the actual gameplay. If there were more of a balance where the budget had gone, the game I think would've been worth it. But with how it stands now. It's just a whole bunch of missed potential, and it SHOULD NOT cost 60usd on Steam.
Sonic be like "You can go fast but u really shouldnt"
Another masterpiece with beautiful story telling! Love ur vids!
The saddest thing is that this game has so much potential and charm. (at least in the cutscenes) It has this magic to it like Japanese Disney. I really hope this doesn't mean the end of this IP.