I truly love this game. A lot of people seem to dislike the character design and visual style. But they were going for exactly one thing: Sega Genesis era style box art - but in the game. Beyond that, the gameplay and movement is insanely versatile and invites you to master it without feeling daunting or unapproachable, like Ultrakill for example. It still has some bugs, occasionally eats inputs and problems with certain GPUs. But for the first 3D game from a small studio of previous 2D fame, all on a complete custom engine (!!), this is critically underrated, even already shortly after release.
Very refreshing video. All too often watching reviews where someone loves a game they spend half the video complaining about it anyway, saying “now unfortunately this game isn’t perfect and we have to talk about it”. But like… you don’t actually have to, you know? Objective analysis is great and super useful but sometimes just knowing someone subjectively adores a game despite its flaws is all I need to know if the reasons you love the game sound like reasons I’ve loved other games before. Focusing on what actually matters to the target audience of this game.
I am the target audience. I found this game upsetting because of how janky it is. When I first started playing I felt so inspired with the great moveset. But then, turns out the game is really buggy and the level and mechanics design isn't really made around the moveset of their own games. For example, when an NPC tells you to pick up an item, it's so hard to without losing your combo. It doesn't feel like hard in a cool way, just in an unintentionally unfair way. I think it's always good to talk about the negatives, especially for a game like this, because I don't want people like me expecting the same thing I expected only to feel disappointed and upset and it lets the devs know where they went wrong and potentially update or make an improved sequel. Also, I don't know if you still play like that but in your Sonic gameplay it does not seem like you realise that Sonic does not go fast on his own. If you try it again, try earning your speed through momentum, rolling down hills and of course jumping on ramps to increase your jump height. So yeah, you're right about the moveset being amazing but unfortunately the game just does not feel like it's made for it and I (and other people like me) just don't want people to be dissapointed. This comment is not made out of hatred and I hope you have a good day and a lot of what you say in this video is right.
@play-mek1245 Thank you for this very well thought out comment - I did not feel like there was any hatred in your comment. I think we will disagree because I really didn't feel like I encountered many bugs, but all of this is subjective. As for the Sonic gameplay, I know I'm a bad Sonic player, but also, that wasn't me at my best, haha. I just kinda grabbed it for the video. Actually, because it was Sonic 2 which I rather like, and because I was playing Zone 1, I had to deliberately make both mistakes in the video to illustrate the point I was trying to make - which was a little dishonest of me. I can play the first Zones of Sonic 1 and 2 very well - I struggle more on later Zones, especially in Sonic 3. I know that with practice I could go faster, but I find that practice frustrating in a way I didn't find it frustrating in Penny's BB for reasons I tried to articulate in this video (mainly the jump-dash-roll combo to get back up to speed, but also the satisfying arial movement generally). But I know other people find the practice in Sonic very rewarding, and since the addition of the drop dash, I have enjoyed it more. I brought up Sonic because I had enjoyed practicing Kaze levels a lot more than practicing Sonic levels, so I thought I didn't like momentum-based gameplay in general, and was surprised to like Penny's. I shouldn't be down on Sonic gameplay - it's obviously a masterpiece in its own right, but just never clicked with me - and maybe I should go back and more critically examine Kaze's movement to see what clicked with me there. But a lot of people really click with Sonic and although I wanted to examine reasons I clicked with Penny more, I think someone else might make a really interesting video as to why they click with Sonic more. And so I was definitely overzealous in saying "It fixed Sonic" - and maybe I should've said "it fixed my issues with Sonic" or something to that effect. You are very right to defend your experience with both this game and with Sonic
There's three big sticking points for me in this game. 1. The level design doesn't evolve much. not even in difficulty, and I think more open level design would have greatly benefited this game's controls. 2. I really want to do the airdash in a single input. Chaining the air dash into Roller ride or the swing is really satisfying but sometimes you can accidentally input too quickly and a dash won't come out. 3. The game should provide more tips on gaining big scores. I only got the score requirements on 3 levels. I've attempted intentionally getting a higher score, but still get a third or half of the required score. With that said, this is the best game of the year.
The best way to get high score is to just collect all of the coins you see and maintain your combo for as long as you can. Coins increase the multiplier by .1x so you can get more points earlier. Breakable boxes also give you a fair amount of points so those are worth going after.
I feel like this game is fun over depth. It's a refreshing change of pace since games do it vice-versa nowadays. I don't care how your game looks if it has a long playtime or if it's a deep story. As long as it's fun or has good mechanics I'll give it a shot.
@jurtheorc8117 depends what kind of games you like, buddy. I really like Unpacking it's a indie game where you organize items into new rooms. It has a really cute pixel art esthetic, and playing it is really relaxing .
I bought this game on the pedigree of being made by the sonic mania devs alone. The aesthetic of looking like sega saturn/genesis boxart and Penny's weird adorable design are just the cherry on top for me, despite a number of people wanting to be wrong outloud calling it Bad
I really love the bright colorful visuals! I admit that Penny herself took a bit to grow on me, but her color scheme really works and stands out in the levels too.
My favourite jump in any game is the double jump in Spiritfarer. Too bad it's not used to anywhere near it's full potential. Most of the movement mechanics in Spiritfarer feels amazing and all of it is underutilized.
I need to look into that! I've heard of Spirit Farer and have been interested but am surprised to hear a game in that genre would have the best movement you've seen. I love when games go above and beyond the expectations set for them.
1:10 SKILL ISSUE.. the thing about 2D sonic about speed being a reward going fast should take effort and skill to pick up momentum using your moves and the level design while going fast is more challanging, it is more rewarding to the player. So, if you are slowing down too much, and having trouble with obstacles then you have to practice and get better at the games then you will see the vision....💫
That's kind of my point. Penny gave me a feeling of mastery more easily. For me, an early feeling of mastery helps motivate me to practice to attain real mastery. I've replayed Penny levels a lot more than Sonic levels because I felt the fruits of my labor earlier - and since the skill-ceiling for Penny is still quite high, I think I've been getting better the whole time.
@@ilovegamedesign1576 then, I think you are a very different case than others because sonic are very known for being easy to pick up but hard to master. Even funnier, I was playing sonic mania one day before watching the video and I was in a stage in the middle of the game I started fine with a good amount of mastery but as I died in the bosses of the level I sarted to find more alternate paths to the level, started going faster until I found a giant upper path and it was a little hard to maintain but it felt rewarding, then I beat the level
I’m shocked so many people aren’t vibing with this game. I’ll admit I kinda hated the controls for the first 3 worlds and penny’s extreme heavyness/deceleration once you hit the ground on foot, but once it all clicks, it CLICKS and now i fly through levels so elegantly. I’m not the kind of person who enjoys replaying levels in games. I don’t even like sonic games. But I can’t stop playing this. I’ve done every stage at least 5 times, some more. Moltobene 2 😍😍😍
Same. I hated the controls throughout my first playthrough, but after 100% the game it kind of grew on me I still think this game should have more camera control though
Your video made me want to check the game out. I'd suggest checking out Spark the Electric Jester 3 if you want to see what peak 3D Sonic movement could be. The museum level is an awesome level design brain aneurysm.
Perhaps they could you a godray (or perhaps this would be a devil ray) to point down when your drop shadow is out of sight. Have the darkness or thickness change based on how high above ground you are. It should stay subtle to not clash with the rest of the aesthetic.
The game I'm making? It's going well - we're polishing and trying to publish on Steam - nothing exciting enough for a devlog quite yet. Or do you mean my play through of this game (Penny's B B)? It was really great! I think I've enjoyed going back to levels now that I've beaten it more than I enjoyed them the first time through because I really did struggle with the back-and-forth between speed and collectibles. But going back through is what inspired me to make this video. I enjoyed myself the whole time because the movement has always been fun - but now that I've beaten it and am just playing around, I feel that on a whole different level. It reminds me of the revelation that New Donk City doesn't have enemies and is just a playground. Once I started treating this game as a play ground, I couldn't put it down.
Sonic games are not fun on first time play throughs, the game goes out of its way to slow you down so you can’t stay on the fastest path, but on repeat play throughs after you’ve learned a lot they’re among the most satisfying platformers to play.
I genuinely have not noticed, but I know some people are more sensitive than I am. She also walks very slowly (to encourage you to move in other ways), and sometimes youtube can have bad framerates - but also, it's really something I would not have noticed. I played on Switch, so if you're sensitive to framerate, maybe look into which console it plays best on?
you only get stopped in sonic games if you the player decides to stop, those hills can be instantly taken care of with proper movement, and those games thrived on momentum and is why sonic is so beloved, dont think penny is better, just taking that design philosophy and translating it to 3D
I love the old Sonic games, but I really feel like until I've studied a level, I end up running into things that stop me a lot. Mania's drop dash was a great fix for this as a quick way to regain top speed, but I found Penny's jump-then-dash superior. Maybe one way to put it is it's easier to maintain momentum in air, and Penny gives you a lot of ways to stay in air, whereas the drop dash is grounded and the ground is full of rocks and bumpy terrain. At least for me, I felt the learning curve on Penny was easier than Sonic, and as such, I never quite clicked with Sonic. We don't have to agree though. I have a lot of friends who feel as you do - that Sonic's movement was perfect - and those games are beloved for a reason.
@@ilovegamedesign1576yes but running into things at First is the Point you have to earn Smooth and Fast Play. I much prefer 3D to 2D sonic Games so I only play them a little but I can easily get satisfying flow on any stage I first enter and on my Retry’s It’s fun as hell
@@ilovegamedesign1576 2D Sonic's speed and momentum is a lot more tied to the environment than pretty much most of the often touted "Sonic-killers" (who tend to be more moveset-based). Even the celebrated drop daah is a physics-centered move, it gives you more speed when you hit the ground, but depending on which angle of slope you hit at, the amount of overall speed/outcome may still vary.
@@IkeOkerekeNews That's a really interesting distinction - I love that! I'll have to think on it more to decide if I agree, but I think I do. And I do not mean to claim Penny is a Sonic-killer - just that I have a preference for it because I personally found the learning and perfecting of levels in Sonic more tedious.
I find it funny how the sonic mania devs can make both a better 2D AND 3D sonic game than Sega ever could. I really don’t understand how second is THIS bad at making games and it’s still in business🗿
I really loved Moon Channels take on Sega, which was really interesting to me. It's a long video, but it goes into the breakdown of where Sega's money comes from (it's gambling) and the business purpose of Sonic (he's a PR mascot). ua-cam.com/video/IwTXCwqurNQ/v-deo.htmlsi=lXmJVOihMBzUSzlX&t=1102
@@IkeOkerekeNews well, I mean yeah this game is completely different from the sonic franchise Don’t get me wrong. But if you were to switch out Penny for sonic he would feel right at home like without even skipping a beat. That’s what I’m more so getting at.
@@funtimezane2964 I understand, but to me I personally don't see Sonic running through these landscapes. Despite the multiple existing styles of 3D Sonic, and hundreds more from the fan community, especially those translating 2D Sonic to 3D, there are just fundamentally differences to these gameplay styles that creates a distinction.
About the way you started this... The levels are samey?? Who says that? I read a lot of reviews and that's not actually something anyone says. In fact its often quite praised for its variety. What a weird statement. If anything the biggest thing that was criticized was the lack of polish and bugs and you somehow neglected to mention that...
@@ilovegamedesign1576 for some trivia, Hell Pie wasn't the first game to have the play character chained together with a character who serves as a platforming aide/tool. Inspiration may have been taken from the old PS2/Gamecube/Xbox platformer Whiplash, about a weasel and rabbit called Spanx and Redmond seeking to escape and later bring down a company that does animal testing.
hmmm maybe i really do need to get my hands on this game. even with the momentum, it just looked too slow for my tastes, and i know exacy how you feel regarding 2d sonic. ill give this game a shot some day, but i feel inclined to recommend spark the electric jester 2 or 3 basically its like if 3d sonic gameplay wasnt horrendous! its still got that speedy A to B level design like PBB, but that never bothered me in terms of collectibles, i just leave that for when i wanna do my completionist runs. from how you described PBB's jumps, I'd say Spark's aren't as fun. You get a double jump, an air dash, and a charge dash that stops you in place (think sonic's spin dash, only you can hold it in mid air). There's also some upgrades that give you an extra jump or let you dash at the cost of energy, but nothing mold breaking i'd say. But it at least lets you do these things in any order similarly to PBB! the main reason i bring it up is because- well- i've played the hell out of it, and it feels amazing to have a game where i can move as fast as i want with great control _and_ without effectively locking me into spectacle cutscenes like 3d sonic frequently relies on. more interestingly, depending on your character, your dash has invincibility frames, which means you wont come to a screeching halt when you hit an enemy or hazard so long as you time your dash, which is pretty fun imo. Though when you do get hurt, it doesnt last nearly as long as sonic's hurt animation, and you can get back to building speed. anyways i just felt like making this longwinded comment since you were praising PBB's momentum, but i'm done praising my favorite sonic-like now lol. definitely gonna play PBB some time though because of this video
I'm not feeling this one. The speed is at constant odds with all the side stuff you need to slow down for. And the controls feel fiddly. Meh, Nioh 2 in the lategame is complex. Starcraft 2 is complex. Is this complex? I doubt. It looks like 99% of the time you're doing the same series of moves of jump, dbl jump, air dash, swing. If you replaced the dash and swing inputs with a jump input it'd be just you flying through the levels, skipping most of them by "triple jumping". That's why it gets mundane. I'm a big platformer fan but I quit this at the end of the demo and I don't feel like going back.
I think it's the physics on the momentum that make this complex - knowing when to release a swing - knowing how to handle that slope - finding unique paths through the level to minimize time. Maybe "complex" isn't the right word - certainly the "complexity" of this game would be different from the "complexity" of Star Craft - but I do genuinely feel when I play like I have a toolkit I can experiment with. I will, however, agree that the side quests in a level feel at odds with the speedy design - I ended up playing each level multiple times because it almost feels like they're asking you to play the levels multiple ways - for exploration, for high score, and for speed - all of which feel at odds with each other.
I do love the game but man does riding the Yoyo feel super unpolished, I wish there was also a way to rev your yoyo without having to dash forward to keep you riding it. Still a fun game but there are times it doesn't feel polished for me
Can you please not shit on Sonic game design in the middle of a video talking about a platformer that has design traits borrowed from Sonic please? Thank you.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I truly love this game. A lot of people seem to dislike the character design and visual style. But they were going for exactly one thing: Sega Genesis era style box art - but in the game. Beyond that, the gameplay and movement is insanely versatile and invites you to master it without feeling daunting or unapproachable, like Ultrakill for example. It still has some bugs, occasionally eats inputs and problems with certain GPUs. But for the first 3D game from a small studio of previous 2D fame, all on a complete custom engine (!!), this is critically underrated, even already shortly after release.
Holy shit, a custom enginge?!?!
since when did people dislike it? Most of the reviews about visuals have been super positive from what I have seen
Very refreshing video. All too often watching reviews where someone loves a game they spend half the video complaining about it anyway, saying “now unfortunately this game isn’t perfect and we have to talk about it”. But like… you don’t actually have to, you know? Objective analysis is great and super useful but sometimes just knowing someone subjectively adores a game despite its flaws is all I need to know if the reasons you love the game sound like reasons I’ve loved other games before. Focusing on what actually matters to the target audience of this game.
I am the target audience. I found this game upsetting because of how janky it is. When I first started playing I felt so inspired with the great moveset. But then, turns out the game is really buggy and the level and mechanics design isn't really made around the moveset of their own games. For example, when an NPC tells you to pick up an item, it's so hard to without losing your combo. It doesn't feel like hard in a cool way, just in an unintentionally unfair way.
I think it's always good to talk about the negatives, especially for a game like this, because I don't want people like me expecting the same thing I expected only to feel disappointed and upset and it lets the devs know where they went wrong and potentially update or make an improved sequel.
Also, I don't know if you still play like that but in your Sonic gameplay it does not seem like you realise that Sonic does not go fast on his own. If you try it again, try earning your speed through momentum, rolling down hills and of course jumping on ramps to increase your jump height.
So yeah, you're right about the moveset being amazing but unfortunately the game just does not feel like it's made for it and I (and other people like me) just don't want people to be dissapointed. This comment is not made out of hatred and I hope you have a good day and a lot of what you say in this video is right.
@play-mek1245 Thank you for this very well thought out comment - I did not feel like there was any hatred in your comment. I think we will disagree because I really didn't feel like I encountered many bugs, but all of this is subjective.
As for the Sonic gameplay, I know I'm a bad Sonic player, but also, that wasn't me at my best, haha. I just kinda grabbed it for the video. Actually, because it was Sonic 2 which I rather like, and because I was playing Zone 1, I had to deliberately make both mistakes in the video to illustrate the point I was trying to make - which was a little dishonest of me. I can play the first Zones of Sonic 1 and 2 very well - I struggle more on later Zones, especially in Sonic 3.
I know that with practice I could go faster, but I find that practice frustrating in a way I didn't find it frustrating in Penny's BB for reasons I tried to articulate in this video (mainly the jump-dash-roll combo to get back up to speed, but also the satisfying arial movement generally). But I know other people find the practice in Sonic very rewarding, and since the addition of the drop dash, I have enjoyed it more. I brought up Sonic because I had enjoyed practicing Kaze levels a lot more than practicing Sonic levels, so I thought I didn't like momentum-based gameplay in general, and was surprised to like Penny's. I shouldn't be down on Sonic gameplay - it's obviously a masterpiece in its own right, but just never clicked with me - and maybe I should go back and more critically examine Kaze's movement to see what clicked with me there. But a lot of people really click with Sonic and although I wanted to examine reasons I clicked with Penny more, I think someone else might make a really interesting video as to why they click with Sonic more.
And so I was definitely overzealous in saying "It fixed Sonic" - and maybe I should've said "it fixed my issues with Sonic" or something to that effect. You are very right to defend your experience with both this game and with Sonic
Fun fact Evening Star also made Sonic Mania Plus
Nailed exactly why this is the most fun I've had playing a new video game in years. Subscribed!
"This game is flawless where it matters."
Oooh, I like that!
There's three big sticking points for me in this game.
1. The level design doesn't evolve much. not even in difficulty, and I think more open level design would have greatly benefited this game's controls.
2. I really want to do the airdash in a single input. Chaining the air dash into Roller ride or the swing is really satisfying but sometimes you can accidentally input too quickly and a dash won't come out.
3. The game should provide more tips on gaining big scores. I only got the score requirements on 3 levels. I've attempted intentionally getting a higher score, but still get a third or half of the required score.
With that said, this is the best game of the year.
The best way to get high score is to just collect all of the coins you see and maintain your combo for as long as you can. Coins increase the multiplier by .1x so you can get more points earlier.
Breakable boxes also give you a fair amount of points so those are worth going after.
Really agree that the granularity of the jump-swing freedom elevates the game above all its level bugs and design gripes! Enjoyed this - thanks!
Agreed, the speed and distance you can get off a dash swing combo compared to a swing dash makes the time attack so fun
I'm calling it right now, this video bout to blow up.
I love game design too.
Hope to see more mechanics or systems discussions in the future.
I feel like this game is fun over depth. It's a refreshing change of pace since games do it vice-versa nowadays. I don't care how your game looks if it has a long playtime or if it's a deep story. As long as it's fun or has good mechanics I'll give it a shot.
Any games that you would recommend? I could perhaps recommend some fun games back to you, if you may be interested.
@jurtheorc8117 depends what kind of games you like, buddy.
I really like Unpacking it's a indie game where you organize items into new rooms. It has a really cute pixel art esthetic, and playing it is really relaxing
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I haven't tried the game yet, but I plan to. Amazing video :)
shoot it’s sonic 1 all over:
we get a sequel and everyone agrees that should be the first game
I bought this game on the pedigree of being made by the sonic mania devs alone. The aesthetic of looking like sega saturn/genesis boxart and Penny's weird adorable design are just the cherry on top for me, despite a number of people wanting to be wrong outloud calling it Bad
I really love the bright colorful visuals! I admit that Penny herself took a bit to grow on me, but her color scheme really works and stands out in the levels too.
It feels great for sure, I just wish the ledge grab was more reliable.
The Hat in Time love in the tier list has gained you a sub
It was Banjo-Kazooie for me 😂
You really explained it all perfectly in such a short video
My favourite jump in any game is the double jump in Spiritfarer. Too bad it's not used to anywhere near it's full potential. Most of the movement mechanics in Spiritfarer feels amazing and all of it is underutilized.
I need to look into that! I've heard of Spirit Farer and have been interested but am surprised to hear a game in that genre would have the best movement you've seen. I love when games go above and beyond the expectations set for them.
1:10
SKILL ISSUE..
the thing about 2D sonic about speed being a reward
going fast should take effort and skill to pick up momentum using your moves and the level design
while going fast is more challanging, it is more rewarding to the player.
So, if you are slowing down too much, and having trouble with obstacles
then you have to practice and get better at the games
then you will see the vision....💫
That's kind of my point. Penny gave me a feeling of mastery more easily. For me, an early feeling of mastery helps motivate me to practice to attain real mastery. I've replayed Penny levels a lot more than Sonic levels because I felt the fruits of my labor earlier - and since the skill-ceiling for Penny is still quite high, I think I've been getting better the whole time.
@@ilovegamedesign1576 then, I think you are a very different case than others because sonic are very known for being easy to pick up but hard to master.
Even funnier, I was playing sonic mania one day before watching the video and I was in a stage in the middle of the game
I started fine with a good amount of mastery but as I died in the bosses of the level I sarted to find more alternate paths to the level, started going faster until I found a giant upper path and it was a little hard to maintain but it felt rewarding, then I beat the level
I’m shocked so many people aren’t vibing with this game. I’ll admit I kinda hated the controls for the first 3 worlds and penny’s extreme heavyness/deceleration once you hit the ground on foot, but once it all clicks, it CLICKS and now i fly through levels so elegantly. I’m not the kind of person who enjoys replaying levels in games. I don’t even like sonic games. But I can’t stop playing this. I’ve done every stage at least 5 times, some more. Moltobene 2 😍😍😍
Same. I hated the controls throughout my first playthrough, but after 100% the game it kind of grew on me
I still think this game should have more camera control though
Your video made me want to check the game out. I'd suggest checking out Spark the Electric Jester 3 if you want to see what peak 3D Sonic movement could be. The museum level is an awesome level design brain aneurysm.
I'll have to check that out! I looked up a video and it looks really cool.
Perhaps they could you a godray (or perhaps this would be a devil ray) to point down when your drop shadow is out of sight. Have the darkness or thickness change based on how high above ground you are. It should stay subtle to not clash with the rest of the aesthetic.
Idk you or what you've made so far, but this game is very well edited. Just remember to take a moment to breathe, my man.
How has your game been??
The game I'm making? It's going well - we're polishing and trying to publish on Steam - nothing exciting enough for a devlog quite yet. Or do you mean my play through of this game (Penny's B B)? It was really great! I think I've enjoyed going back to levels now that I've beaten it more than I enjoyed them the first time through because I really did struggle with the back-and-forth between speed and collectibles. But going back through is what inspired me to make this video. I enjoyed myself the whole time because the movement has always been fun - but now that I've beaten it and am just playing around, I feel that on a whole different level. It reminds me of the revelation that New Donk City doesn't have enemies and is just a playground. Once I started treating this game as a play ground, I couldn't put it down.
Great video!
Sonic games are not fun on first time play throughs, the game goes out of its way to slow you down so you can’t stay on the fastest path, but on repeat play throughs after you’ve learned a lot they’re among the most satisfying platformers to play.
This game is kinda perfect ngl.
It’s so fucking sad how underrated this game is!!!
That framerate looking rough.
I genuinely have not noticed, but I know some people are more sensitive than I am. She also walks very slowly (to encourage you to move in other ways), and sometimes youtube can have bad framerates - but also, it's really something I would not have noticed. I played on Switch, so if you're sensitive to framerate, maybe look into which console it plays best on?
you only get stopped in sonic games if you the player decides to stop, those hills can be instantly taken care of with proper movement, and those games thrived on momentum and is why sonic is so beloved, dont think penny is better, just taking that design philosophy and translating it to 3D
I love the old Sonic games, but I really feel like until I've studied a level, I end up running into things that stop me a lot. Mania's drop dash was a great fix for this as a quick way to regain top speed, but I found Penny's jump-then-dash superior. Maybe one way to put it is it's easier to maintain momentum in air, and Penny gives you a lot of ways to stay in air, whereas the drop dash is grounded and the ground is full of rocks and bumpy terrain. At least for me, I felt the learning curve on Penny was easier than Sonic, and as such, I never quite clicked with Sonic. We don't have to agree though. I have a lot of friends who feel as you do - that Sonic's movement was perfect - and those games are beloved for a reason.
@@ilovegamedesign1576yes but running into things at First is the Point you have to earn Smooth and Fast Play. I much prefer 3D to 2D sonic Games so I only play them a little but I can easily get satisfying flow on any stage I first enter and on my Retry’s It’s fun as hell
@@ilovegamedesign1576
2D Sonic's speed and momentum is a lot more tied to the environment than pretty much most of the often touted "Sonic-killers" (who tend to be more moveset-based). Even the celebrated drop daah is a physics-centered move, it gives you more speed when you hit the ground, but depending on which angle of slope you hit at, the amount of overall speed/outcome may still vary.
@@IkeOkerekeNews That's a really interesting distinction - I love that! I'll have to think on it more to decide if I agree, but I think I do. And I do not mean to claim Penny is a Sonic-killer - just that I have a preference for it because I personally found the learning and perfecting of levels in Sonic more tedious.
I find it funny how the sonic mania devs can make both a better 2D AND 3D sonic game than Sega ever could. I really don’t understand how second is THIS bad at making games and it’s still in business🗿
I really loved Moon Channels take on Sega, which was really interesting to me. It's a long video, but it goes into the breakdown of where Sega's money comes from (it's gambling) and the business purpose of Sonic (he's a PR mascot). ua-cam.com/video/IwTXCwqurNQ/v-deo.htmlsi=lXmJVOihMBzUSzlX&t=1102
The Sonic Mania haven't made a better 3D Sonic game though.
@@IkeOkerekeNews well, I mean yeah this game is completely different from the sonic franchise Don’t get me wrong. But if you were to switch out Penny for sonic he would feel right at home like without even skipping a beat. That’s what I’m more so getting at.
@@funtimezane2964
I understand, but to me I personally don't see Sonic running through these landscapes. Despite the multiple existing styles of 3D Sonic, and hundreds more from the fan community, especially those translating 2D Sonic to 3D, there are just fundamentally differences to these gameplay styles that creates a distinction.
About the way you started this... The levels are samey?? Who says that? I read a lot of reviews and that's not actually something anyone says. In fact its often quite praised for its variety. What a weird statement. If anything the biggest thing that was criticized was the lack of polish and bugs and you somehow neglected to mention that...
Pizza Tower is also an improved Sonic
nah. the movement LOOKS nice but it doesn’t FEEL good. Hellpie did this sorta movement WAY better.
Never played Hellpie - I'll have to take a look!
@@ilovegamedesign1576 for some trivia, Hell Pie wasn't the first game to have the play character chained together with a character who serves as a platforming aide/tool. Inspiration may have been taken from the old PS2/Gamecube/Xbox platformer Whiplash, about a weasel and rabbit called Spanx and Redmond seeking to escape and later bring down a company that does animal testing.
pseudoregalia
This this this.
Sybil's got them HOPS.
hmmm maybe i really do need to get my hands on this game. even with the momentum, it just looked too slow for my tastes, and i know exacy how you feel regarding 2d sonic. ill give this game a shot some day, but i feel inclined to recommend spark the electric jester 2 or 3
basically its like if 3d sonic gameplay wasnt horrendous! its still got that speedy A to B level design like PBB, but that never bothered me in terms of collectibles, i just leave that for when i wanna do my completionist runs.
from how you described PBB's jumps, I'd say Spark's aren't as fun. You get a double jump, an air dash, and a charge dash that stops you in place (think sonic's spin dash, only you can hold it in mid air). There's also some upgrades that give you an extra jump or let you dash at the cost of energy, but nothing mold breaking i'd say. But it at least lets you do these things in any order similarly to PBB!
the main reason i bring it up is because- well- i've played the hell out of it, and it feels amazing to have a game where i can move as fast as i want with great control _and_ without effectively locking me into spectacle cutscenes like 3d sonic frequently relies on. more interestingly, depending on your character, your dash has invincibility frames, which means you wont come to a screeching halt when you hit an enemy or hazard so long as you time your dash, which is pretty fun imo. Though when you do get hurt, it doesnt last nearly as long as sonic's hurt animation, and you can get back to building speed.
anyways i just felt like making this longwinded comment since you were praising PBB's momentum, but i'm done praising my favorite sonic-like now lol. definitely gonna play PBB some time though because of this video
Interesting! I'll definitely take a look! Having watched a few videos now, those games definitely do look like they'd interest me.
I dont know.
a steady source of income would probably make penny work
I'm not feeling this one. The speed is at constant odds with all the side stuff you need to slow down for.
And the controls feel fiddly.
Meh, Nioh 2 in the lategame is complex. Starcraft 2 is complex. Is this complex? I doubt.
It looks like 99% of the time you're doing the same series of moves of jump, dbl jump, air dash, swing.
If you replaced the dash and swing inputs with a jump input it'd be just you flying through the levels, skipping most of them by "triple jumping". That's why it gets mundane.
I'm a big platformer fan but I quit this at the end of the demo and I don't feel like going back.
I think it's the physics on the momentum that make this complex - knowing when to release a swing - knowing how to handle that slope - finding unique paths through the level to minimize time. Maybe "complex" isn't the right word - certainly the "complexity" of this game would be different from the "complexity" of Star Craft - but I do genuinely feel when I play like I have a toolkit I can experiment with. I will, however, agree that the side quests in a level feel at odds with the speedy design - I ended up playing each level multiple times because it almost feels like they're asking you to play the levels multiple ways - for exploration, for high score, and for speed - all of which feel at odds with each other.
I do love the game but man does riding the Yoyo feel super unpolished, I wish there was also a way to rev your yoyo without having to dash forward to keep you riding it. Still a fun game but there are times it doesn't feel polished for me
Can you please not shit on Sonic game design in the middle of a video talking about a platformer that has design traits borrowed from Sonic please?
Thank you.
Cry about it