A Viewer made my Copper Factory Obsolete
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- Опубліковано 28 лис 2021
- Literally less than a day after my previous video went live and somebody contacted me on discord with a more advanced theory of copper oxidization along with a layout that actually made my concept obsolete. So I teamed up with them to produce a design that should be perfectly viable in survival gameplay.
Schematics of the two new copper fatory variants:
www.mediafire.com/file/85jn7s...
www.mediafire.com/file/kpvoma...
World Download:
www.mediafire.com/file/gukgyc...
Wavetech Server Discord:
/ discord
Mods that I use:
github.com/Fallen-Breath/twea...
masa.dy.fi/mcmods/client_mods...
github.com/gnembon/fabric-carpet
github.com/Andrews54757/items...
Second Channel where I post my Music:
/ @artism6843 - Ігри
I feel like "extremely practical to use in survival" is a relative statement 😂
Practical relative to the previous design obviously. The fact that is easy for a tech player to build should indicate that other playstyles could also use it with only moderate difficulty.
I'm sure most players can easily use the schematic to build this, whether or not they follow all of the technical details. If you are the sort of person who will need 1 shulker box of oxidized copper per hour to then I'm sure you will have the resources to build this
Even for more casual players, this knowledge still seems quite useful; if you invest some oxidized copper initially in your manual oxidization layout, then you'll get higher rates on that too. (Of course that requires having a lot of copper, but there certainly is that use case.)
But first we need a reliable source of copper.
@@Razuri_Zeev zombie reinforcement farms aren't ideal, but they do work
“But I highly doubt anyone would need 18,000 oxidized copper per hour”
You’re right we need to build 2 of the full-sized ones for 36k
well if someone wants to build the statue of liberty multiple times or one very big, it needs a lot of copper indeed :p
@@MrLuigge Or maybe they want to build a giant mega base using 1.18 blocks.
Scar from hermitcraft would have to disagree
hermitcraft
Or 4 for 72K
Major props for giving your platform to give full credit to another talented builder.
He did most of the science, but I still stressed over timings and block conveyors for several hours to make this functional. I doubt either of us could of pulled it off separately.
Hmm, I don't remember him giving credit to ua-cam.com/video/1axQe5nUvwQ/v-deo.html he also uses the powdered snow system.
@@cubicmetre So is the fully oxidized copper block also waxed on the other design?
Edit: I tested it, waxed don't count as variable b so it's slower
This is why Cubic is my favorite TMC youtuber! Legend!
@@cubicmetre I had an idea. But I don't know if it would be possible though.
*Disclaimer:* I don't know how to code; I don't know how update suppressor works nor do I know how oxidation in code really works.
If you manage to somehow skip a line of code where it checks the amount of unwaxed blocks; We can surround it with oxidized copper blocks, then a = 0 and c > 1.
For example, there are 128 higher state copper blocks we get b = 128 and we skip the code where it checks the number of unwaxed copper blocks we get a = 0. If we put it in the equation c = b+1/a+1 => c = 129/1 => P = mc^2 => P = m129^2 => P = 16,641 => 1,664,100% LMAO
“But I highly doubt anyone would need 18,000 oxidized copper per hour”
'Need' has never even entered the vocabulary of your average SciCraft player...
Hermitcraft too XD lol
"Yes, this machine here will give you three hundred gazillion long grass per dicktick"
"But why would I need that much long grass?"
"¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
"He then followed up with simulation result from a program he coded himself using python"
Minecraft technical player are on par with science researcher now smh smh
always have been
what if i told you they are one in the same
They are the same people. If you have fun with technical Minecraft, you probably also like science.
@@frostyusername5011 actually lol
bruh as a software engineer employed by a fortune 500 company, I guarantee you I do nothing nearly as impressive as this shit
_You know what, after all that, I think I'm just gonna place my copper down where I want it to go and wait for it to oxidize there._
Thank you tho!
I bet that's quicker than feckin about gathering all the crap to build one of these.
@@robmorris87 it doesn't.
@@VIady what doesn't what?
@@robmorris87 it's faster to make one of these than to oxidize copper in large amount.
issue is when you want it to oxidize a specific way
15:46
Therapist: ilmago&mumbo hybrid can’t hurt you. It doesn’t exist.
*ilmumbo:
Also @11:44 :-)
*mumbango?
@@Wyrnikh Google translate seems to think this means "In the race" . . .
I guess mumbango is in the race to become the best Mumbo-Mango hybrid!
. . . Mungo Jungo? . . . this is too fun lmao
I absolutely love that you were able to take their suggestion like a true scientist. We don't always get it right, and it's important to entertain alternate solutions which might lead to a new, better solution. With that in mind, a nice QoL feature for this farm might also be to have a "purge" system to get all of the copper in the farm out. Having a storage with an easy to get block like cobblestone which you can place instead of copper for 5 minutes of running the farm would clear out any copper inside, then the output of the blast chamber could filter this item into a separate shulker loader for storage. That way if you only need a portion of what the farm can hold, you can easily fill with copper and purge when it's oxidized. This would add a few extra pieces to the build, but might make it nicer to use for people who don't need the entire farm's worth of copper blocks at once
This is so cool! Ever since copper was introduced, everyone just settled for using 4-block spacing, but I always wondered if copper oxidation could be made more efficient in terms of yield per required space. I'm glad to see that this is being looked into.
I think the 4 block spacing was the natural choice when copper was new, because it was the fastest way to turn your small amount of blocks oxidized as fast as possible, so you could start building with them right away. Now that more people are getting massive stockpiles of copper, being able to oxidize them all with minimal effort and minimal space is becoming the new priority :)
@@diggoran Makes sense. I feel like you would still do the 4-block spacing to oxidise your seed blocks, now you can just turn around and use those to set up something more space-efficient like this factory.
I find it so funny whenever he says cubic metre. My sense of humor is awful
this is it, we've reached the edge of humor
as an american, i prefer cubicyard
@@ictogon not a cubiccable? Wheres the cable is of course one tenth of a nautical mile or equal to 100 fathoms under the strict definition or most commonly known as 21,600 barleycorn.
@@istoOi yep
@@ictogon as someone with dual citizenship, I prefer the cubiccentiyard
God damn, I’ve so much more interest on knowing how to optimize oxidation of a copper pixel block than on my final Calculus project lmao
POG
i did how vision score pre 2 minutes effects the winrates and kills in leauge for my uni, and got an A
@@Gamer-nc8qp What
Some maths:
The star shape around one copper block (=4 block taxicab distance) has a=128 blocks without the center block. In this example setup we have b=39 fully oxidised copper blocks around each not fully oxidised copper block. This gives c²=9.61%.
Multiply this with m=0.75 for pure copper or m=1 for any other stage and then with 64/1125 (acc to mc wiki) to get the probability to oxidise the center block when random ticked. In our example this would be 0.41% for pure copper and 0.547% for the other stages.
As each block is random ticked on average each 68.27 seconds, the mean time to get a pure copper block to oxidise to exposed in the shown arrangement is 4.62 hours (16641 seconds), for the other stages 3.47 hours (12480.75 seconds).
Compare this with c²=100% and either 1600seconds (26.7mins) or 1200seconds (20mins) mean oxidation time per copper block in the original setup.
But even though we lost a factor of 10.4 in oxidation speed, we can now pack 83.3 blocks to oxidise into the space where only one copper block fit in the original design (cell of 5x5x5=125 blocks).
So the new design is (about) 10.4 times slower, but 83.3 times smaller for the same output.
you have the m wrong its 1 if pure 0,75 everything else
@@valeriomastroeni8454 Not according to the minecraft wiki.
@@harrypotter5460 in the video it says as I said, then it can be wrong I didn’t check
@@valeriomastroeni8454 It is wrong, as Nikolas said in his comment
Gosh darn dude, you're quickly becoming my favorite, which is hard for me because you're an Aussie and I'm a kiwi but I can get over our generational banter because of the genius and well done videos. Thanks so much Cubic, I learn so much from you
The way this farm is explained makes it feel like a TAS for oxidized copper
Me watching this video the entire time:
I like your funny words magic man
I clicked on this video just to say that I really liked the title. I think that you could make a low-effort popular series of showing off how other people improved your farms. Anyways, Awesome video :D
its extremely easy to improve anything cubic makes since he spends no time at all making anything
@@justluke0001 I don't know how you meant to come off but you sound like a rude person.
Luke is generally just a rude kind of person, people are just like that sometimes.
@@cubicmetre man don't listen to them they do nothing in our lives except than demoltivating us
@@justluke0001 and what did you do in specific that makes you say this bs
Ooooooh this is the new design that you were talking about- This is honestly a revelation as all the other copper farms (that I know of) place copper blocks 4 blocks apart. Props to WorstPacifist!
The logic and math of the 2 videos are so cool.
Man, I took physics courses and got hella confused when you showed the P = mc^2 equation on screen. I was like "What is P that it's equal to a product of the mass-energy conversion equation?"
Technically, P would then be as P=E
I can't comment again on the level of process engineering you have gone through in this video. This video alone made me think on how to prep for some of my projects in the workplace. I've even taken notes :D
When I first saw the design I had already given up on understanding it. But the way you carefully explained it made me understand it bit by bit a lot better. Major props for that! Excellent video
The 3rd Industrial Revolution will be inside Minecraft.
Aww yeah, two m3 copper oxidization videos for the price of one! 😁 Very nice improvement, even though the powdered-snow-blockstream concept still is such a cool idea to me.
I came for the farm, but that push limit extender has my attention
I find oxidizing farms and leaving copper to oxidize in a grid just really funny. The whole point is you just put the copper in place on your build and simply forget about it and let it oxidize itself haha. Then if you want it less oxidized, simply scrape it away until correct and wax it. Yeah it will take longer but why does it matter? The process looks really cool especially since the colors of copper are complementary and will usually go nice with your build in all states of oxidization.
yeah i entirely dont understand the point of this build, like the copper will oxidize on its own? what is the reason for it to be "pre-oxidized" in an elaborate farm
I loved seeing the graphs and data you provided, this was super well written, thank you!
I was about to build this in my world when you pull the video just in time.
Thank you!
So there are people making difficult graphics and analytics about a imaginary block in an PC game.....how much of a nerd can you be? And that is an compliment! Love the dedication ❤
THIS FACTORY IS GENIUS!, you my fine sir have taught me more about redstone then 1000 mumbo jumbo videos AND I LOVE MUMBO VIDS
new cubicmetre in under a week? Hell yeah
I suppose you could also set up a system to “recycle” the copper and eventually it would all become oxidised
Damn dude. +1 sub. Thank you so much for the amazing simulation results and technical explanation.
too underated dude. Keep up the good stuff!
Speechless. Your content is VERY inspiring. Great work !
Another amazing video! As always!
That's what I thought. I was playing a game early on when copper came out and I wanted to make a copper roof. I noticed that it took forever to start the process, but once my roof blocks had changed, the new ones I added over time, because it was a slow build, they change much more quickly. To the point when the roof was mostly finished, it seem like any new block added changed in the blink of an eye.
Yet, amongst the community there was this idea that spread that keeping blocks together slowed things down. I tried telling lots of people that putting fully changed blocks around new ones speed up the process. I seem to even remember hearing early on that the dev's said this was they way they worked, as the oxidization would spread from more oxidized blocks to less oxidized blocks more quickly.
Everyone just ignored me and kept leaving all their blocks spaced way out. Thanks for proving I wasn't crazy. I guess I could have done work to prove it too, but, I don't have the patience for all the work you obviously had to put into this.
Great job.
The important thing to note here is that copper blocks spaced apart 4 blocks in the xyz will oxidize and the fastest rate possible regardless of whether they're surrounded by fully oxidised copper. The fully oxidised copper mainly counteracts the effect of other copper blocks of the same oxidation state from slowing down a particular block from oxidizing. Which is useful for when you want to oxidize a lot of copper in a compact space.
@@cubicmetre true. Still, the way everyone was doing it was by leaving huge spaces where no other copper blocks at all were near each other. In my system with the roof, it didn't matter too much because most of the roof was already fully oxidized, so they accelerated the new ones I put up.
In that system, the slowdown due to the new blocks being clumped together wasn't a factor. Obviously, as your awesome graphs and tonnes of work showed, in an optimized system you want the blocks your oxidizing to be separated from each other while still being surrounded by fully oxidized blocks.
The excitement you have building these mega machines makes me excited! Cheers to both of you and your intelligence 🍻
Amazing work you two 👍
Good video!
rip the guy who built the old one in survival
This is fascinating, thank you for sharing this.
I'm just totally speechless about the work that went into this analysis...and I'm a math major. So well done. Bravo.
Love how mans isn’t even salty he just did the math and accepted it.
Man is too underatted wtf cmon at least give him a hundred k
3:57
The look on Albert's face in the second pic, after being let down gently by cubicmetre
5:34 reminds me of the electro-chemical potential in sacrificial anodes used on large ships to prevent their shit from rusting.
I have never seen your videos before.
But I'd recognise that chest hair anywhere.
Nice.
For the copper oxidation issue on the smaller farm, it could be possible to set so that if filters out oxidized copper into the shulker while the other variants just get sent back to the start
your bot being called Ilmumbo and being half ilmango and half mumbo is just awesome
I'm absolutely stumped , that someone outsmart in your field of Redstone ! Lol
According to minecraft wiki you swapped the definitions of m. It should be 0.75 for pure copper, 1 for weathered and exposed.
according to the code as well
Makes much more sense otherwise the instant you put down a pure copper block it will become weathered
“Yeah that seems about right”
- Sniper, Tf2
Can I suggest that in the shulker box unloader, the hopper feeding into the bottom dropper is replaced by a dropper so that the hopper isn't locked by the observer, effectively extending the dropper line one block
I personally knew about the oxidized copper helped oxidize pure copper faster and the spacing helped out too, so I had been having copper oxidize on top of oxidized copper to have quite nice rates. I wasnt aware that more oxidized copper would mean an even quicker conversion.
This feels like something that belongs on the SciCraft server. very technical and optimized, very cool.
Always making good videos
This is one of the best Minecraft videosi have ever seen 🏆
Instant sub
The big difference is that your build can be built and be at full efficiency right from the start. The more efficient one needs exposed copper to already work
I don’t understand a word you’re saying but the background music is nice. Good job man thumbs up👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This is so precise high level engineering, I can't even imagine how long it took from 1st prototype all the way down to the last model
Actually because I tried to visualize what the final solution would looking like the design was very straightforward. I just needed to connect the dots.
Dude, ive been saying this for the past year in Hermitcrafts comments section, lay out ur copper blocks, spaced out like normal, once it oxidizes completely just add copper blocks directly on top of the oxidized copper blocks instead of replacing them and boom, quicker oxidized copper blocks 🙂so yeah, this made immediate sense to me since iv'e been using this method for the past year in my MC world 😀
It reminds me of investing, you have to have oxidized copper sitting in place to get oxidized copper coming out
i think a super dense pre buffer could solve the problem if you combine it with a long timer that locks out the imput while the buffer is full could make the small farm more practical takeing it from come back every hour to every 5 or so hours
im so glad that i can actually understand what he is saying
Mom: are you studying for your Math exam tomorrow?
Me: wellllllllll
Very inspiring! Some thoughts that came to me about the original design:
If you want to oxidize a "small" amount of blocks faster, the old design would be faster than the new one. My understanding is that the new one is faster if you fill above a % of the farm with new copper. Although I'm not trying to say that you would get higher rates, just that you could get your results faster, with less waiting. Unless I missed something?
Then, if the copper checks around a diamond(octahedron) shaped area, it should be possible to get a denser layout by separating the blocks diagonaly from each other. Although the increased complexity might not be worth it.
I guess this is technically true, with the snow blocks to space blocks apart you also get the functionality of being able to drain the silos without any input of copper blocks, but the mechanisms are insanely complicated.
The conveyors of copper slowing down from 4GT to 4224GT and then speed up to 16GT is the most satisfying thing I ever saw in minecraft
Damn, this blows my mind. I didn't expect people to make scientific and mathematics researches for optimizing minecraft factories. But now that I write this comment and now that I see this video, this absolutely makes sense xD But wow tho, really impressive work and great explainations ! I'm math teacher at math college in france and I would love to teach my pupils probabilties with minecraft applications. That would be awesome. Thank you for this video !
This man throws the word "extremely practical to build in survival" way too casually
I love this type of videos but i can barely make a piston door, i wish one day I'm able to recreate this survival
Extremely interesting video!
if nothing else the "Block Conveyor Extender" design will be really handy for some builds
I wish I cared this much about my classes
cool! also, this is an actual use for math. wish school had problems like this video
hearing cubicmetre say cubic metre is so funny for me for no reason
Click on the title, stayed for the maths, and build but confused on why or how I would ever build this in either creative or survival. First video of yours I've ever seen.
Yeah, it's practical and makes sense. But imagine having to collect all those oxidized copper before building an oxidizer...
Also, does P=mc^2 and c=a/b come from reading game code or observation?
You can just build it with regular copper and wait for your farm to oxidize
@@wefhy and wait around 120 hours for it all to oxidize. Luckily, in 1.18 you can oxidize copper blocks manually and cut them into 4 cut copper blocks each.
The equations most likely come from looking at the code.
Also reminder that you can get 4 cut copper blocks out of a regular copper block. In other words, you only need to collect copper blocks for a quarter of the machine and then cut it up with the stone cutter.
@@madman2572 >manually
wdym?
This is probably the only reason why my class mates learn math. To become the next cubicmetre and Mumbo Jumbo. I love Minecraft science. You just earned a new subscriber.
What is nice is we can run a sb of copper blocks through the system, then just go afk at your copper farm for a bit, and repeat the process
granted you need to be in random tick range of the oxidization factory, but you could just build close to the copper farm for that.
i KNEW it!!! the single block modules with observer to auto farm would actually be better, if the area around that block is seeded with oxidized, now that ive heard the actual mechanics.
BUT I CALLED IT, on a hermits video, i think Grains, where he had a sheet. i said he should seed it.
No
This is like making a tilled grass farm (if you could pick up those blocks) but way slower
I just build, I don't do redstone, but dang, can I ever respect the effort, skills and knowledge needed to make these kinds of things
11:43 Ilmango + Mumbo Jumbo == Ilmumbo???
15:41 Wow that really is Ilmango + Mumbo
I noticed that last video too lol
Ilmumbo is a real person, look up their yt channel
ua-cam.com/channels/f9SYal_h3WSoksvxLYruuQ.html
@@nikolasscholz7983 lul but the name on the video probably referenced what this comment said
@@ethanael_yovan I'm pretty sure cubic is also an ilmumbo enjoyer as many other scicrafters are
i had a feeling it's better to mix in fully oxidized copper
@11:44 Ilmumbo? This episode is like a cross over between ilmango and Mumbo Jumbo! :-)
man i know il never be bothered to build anything like this in creative let alone survival, still awsome to see the full extent of people genius, wonder if termite farms wil lever be a thing once the wild update comes?
Dude literally make a skyscraper
Great farm!
Random idea: Would it be more efficient if you leave blocks next to fully oxidized blocks for a while, then blow them up to get the item form, then sort them by their oxidization state and then place them again next to blocks of the same stage?
That sounds like a lot of work needing to replace all the copper blocks by hand when instead this machine would just fully automate the process.
Considering that the progress of oxidisation is random, I was thinking if it would be more efficient to make a farm that has a lower proportion of fully oxidised copper leaving and just recycling the blocks that fail to oxidise completely.
This reminds me so much of Infinifactory
Great video
Oh yeah, that makes sense.
hey there Cubicmetre! What's the application you used to create the mathematical formulas on the board? I love the explanation in this video of how the rates work and want to be more efficient with how I use technology. I don't have java but I want to make a project and was hoping you were smart enough to make it and break the record by making a highly functional matric calculus and tensor calulus diagram and graph
Superb
Meters? Seconds? Feet? Mile?
NOPE!
Everything shall be measured in
G A M E T I C K
Talk about taking Minecraft to a whole new level.
For some reason the copper oxidization being sort of uniform reminds me of how ice melts. It won't get any warmer until all the ice is melted, in the same way steam won't get hotter until all water is transformed to steam. Unrelated, but interesting.
You know I thought I was good with red stone for making a giant auto sorter and a few other machines.. then I saw this video…
Just out of curiousity, if i wanted to obtain as much oxidised copper as possible over night, would there be any benefit in building in a timer that shuts off the farm in intervals or should i just recycle the not fully oxidised blocks and leave the farm running at full speed?
Well you'd save on TNT with a timer.
Yea, running on a timer would be best if you’re using the smaller design. You should be able to calculate the optimal time using the graphs he shows.
I probably could of kept the variable clock system from the previous design so players could do this. You could always just grab it from the previous design.
I like your funny words magic man
Ok, that is a very useful insight. More oxidized blocks nearby doesn't speed up the oxidization per se, but they offset the massive slowdown from blocks of the same level.
If you only have a lot of blocks of the same level nearby, the chance to oxidize will be a very small number. If about half of the nearby blocks are more oxidized, the chance to oxidize will be about a half.
Doing alternating sheets like this will about halve the oxidization rate compared to completely spread out blocks, but the density of copper blocks will go from 1/125 to 1/2. Sounds extremely worth it 👍
edit: Well, the fact that it doesn't oxidize at all if there are any less oxidized blocks nearby slows the process down further. Now almost all blocks must progress to the second stage before they can start heading to the third stage. Completely spread out blocks can keep going instantly. Still worth it though.
edit2: Half the nearby copper being more oxidized doesn't halve the rate. It of course quarters it, because c^2 :]
I have some questions.
Would the speed of the system be doubled if the silos were arranged horizontally instead of vertically since you don't have to wait for the stream to be split in the silos? Or is the delay to assist in the maximum time needed to oxidize the copper? What is the maximum time to oxidize the copper needed within the new silos? Is it close to 1 hour or could you run the farm constantly instead of in the 5 minute intervals?