I’ve loved your content on this bike. You’re so good at explaining the things that matter to a prospective rider. I’ve had my 450MT for 3 weeks now and have only done a couple of fire trail rides, but so far I’m very impressed. I’m keen to put some of those XT+ tyres on and then I can tackle some real off road conditions.
2025 will be an epic time for small capacity adventure bikes.... Tuareg 457, BMW 460GS, KTM 390 ADV R.... the CF MOTO will have some serious competition. Good for everyone!
I was lucky to get my 450mt in July 24, I have been careful to only add a new bash plate, some old stronger hand guards I had from a previous bike and I have added upper crash bars, but having seen how strong the plastics are from others bikes that have been in quite severe drops I may remove the crash bars. Taking the slack out of the throttle cables really does help reduce the snatch, and it doesn't take long to adjust your riding so as to forget about it. Coming from a Tenere I just don't miss the extra power, the 450 seems more like it has 60hp rather than 42. I love my 450 and it will be with me for many years.
I still do like that CFMoto, if they'd have been a few years older and second hand ones were out there I'd hve got one over the Himalayan. Great video and review as always, and congratulations on raising so much, I enjoyed the evening and the talks.
Cracking real world balanced review gained by personal and customer / client experience. Great to have it as part of the stable for comparison with others at the price point. Roll on the 390 Adventure R release.. could be tempted to swap my 400X for one of Those.
Just a quick general comment on tyre changing on the trail. Are you aware of "bead buddies", they're a motocross thing, they act like a second set of levers that hold the bead in place while your refitting the tyre. Come from motocross. Make refitting tyres without ripping the tube a hell of a lot easier. Can easily carry a couple in your toolkit. Thought I'd flag them up for anyone who hasn't heard of them.
@@nathanthepostman They're no real help in getting the tyre off (but if you've already got a puncture (and a spare tube) you don't care about pinching the tube when getting it off), but they make a massive difference when re-fitting the tyre if you're own your own (they are designed for MX tyres after all), they're really just a bracket that holds the bead in place while you move your levers to the next position (you just keep sliding them along your rim as you work your way around). I've used them quite a lot on some pretty ugly tyres and find them to be a great help. I've got a couple of different makes in my workshop, cheaper ones on Ebay are quite a bit thinner and lighter than the 'official bead buddies' but actually work just as well and take up a lot less space/weight so I think they're actually better. They're only about a tenner each (you need two), might be interesting to do a little review on them for your viewers (no I don't have any financial interest in them 😊). I would note though, that it's quite easy to scratch your rims with them if you're not careful (if you care about such things).
@@simonbirt6121 I must say, I hate tube tyres, total PITA. I ride a mountain bikes (push bikes) as well and we did away with tubes on a long time ago. Never tried it, but I have seen people converting m/c spoke tube rims to tubeless the same way we do with MTBs (i.e. lock on valves and taping the rims). Maybe some safety issues with bead security on big heavy m/c though so never tried it myself though was sorely tempted with my old 650 Transalp and Heidenhau K60 Scouts, they were no fun getting off and on without pinching the tubes.
@@nathanthepostman I used them when fitting Heidenau K60 Scouts to my bike, and they did help. Not sure how the Scouts compare to E09s on the toughness of the sidewall though.
Great review 👍 There’s a vid on how to change your rear tire on the road where a lady manages to fit her own mitas e-07 …. I do believe she is a Valkyrie goddess though. Deffo a tyre shop for us mere mortals 😅
Good honest review again But sorry I'm not sold on this as an Adventure bike Think you got it spot on by saying it sounds good and looks good Most people that buy this bike will take up a few lanes and down the cafe, and that will fit the image I'm told it can go thousands of miles before the valves need looking at But it can only go 3k before the oil & filter need changing The 450 himmy is by far the better bike as far as long distance adventures, purely on servicing alone 20/30/40 k Adventure will see a healthy gain just on the servicing which in turn helps pay for the trip I think once again the biking public have been left wanting by a brand that really needs to look at the service intervals on an Adventure bike
The old 411 was 3000 miles valve checks and that didn't stop anyone travelling on them. The new one is valves every 6000 miles for the first 12000 miles and is a big job. Personally I think the regular oil on the CF moto is a better option than fairly regular valves on the Himalayan.
Thanks for the update Nathan. When comparing to the T7's weight with pricing put aside would it come down to rider's ability to adapt to the top heavyness of the T7 vs lower weight distribution of the 450MT? Specifically in the more technical trails vs on flat surfaces.
The engine sound is sublime. Not keen on snatchy throttles. They shouldn't exist. My KTM is like this. But, like you, I ride around it. Sticking the 390 Duke on the market, Nathan. I want a CL500. Nick
Spokes tarnishing is just normal and it’s OK. It’s just discolouration of the passivating coating. Just keep them clean and accept that it shows the passivating coating is working.
Your comment on comparative reduced weight to a Honda CRF250L Rally will be put to the test. I have a 28" inseam and the CRF250L Rally has a 35.5" seat height. I'm thinking of getting a 450MT for my longer trips to find gravel routes. I'm looking forward to testing my skills with a bigger motorcycle where I can touch the ground with both feet
Brilliant video mate happy 2025, as a nx500 owner I agree, I think a lot comes down to usage case an being honest with yourself on how an what you are gonna ride also personal managability, an choosing the bike that fits with that weight wise. I’ve just sold my 1150gsa with the way my shoulder is an the reality of that, I couldn’t handle the weight most of the time, I’ll really miss it though had some amazing memories on it. lad who bought it moved it around like me moving a nx500. An ex gs trophy rider N rode it away in the snow n ice to new adventures and touring. For me next im gonna go back really lightweight like the crf300 rally but something a bit different. With going for a lightweight bike it’s gonna open up the possibility of some green laning an trail riding again, am I might even go lighter than a typical adv bike. Especially with the confirmed move to Somerset in April opens up a lot more places to ride a dealers like Rugged Roads not being to far away. (Also all the Ktm shops bar one are shut up here near me an that’s 2 hours away) For dad the nx500 fits him perfectly as he is only road riding for his adventures or very easy gravel roads with his stage 3b/4 prostate cancer. N our Norway trip will be hotels for his comfort as his energy comes back from the radiotherapy more he wants to give some lanes a go so I’ll get him something very light for that. I agree though the cf moto seems well more serious for trail riding. For me the 390 adv r is an interesting proposition although the lower exhaust is a concern can’t believe they did that 🙃 Totally agree on pricing, being very into my British bike history I think the Japanese could end up repeating that if they are not careful. I think if Suzuki had done a DRZ Rally an it was 7,500 maybe but it’s certainly up there price wise. You only have to look at the Kove an all the comments on Hrc’s Instagram of people asking when are we gonna see something like that from Japan. They could have really done something different with a lightweight bike with low tanks on the 300 rally.
The Triumph is still unknown here in Canada. The 390 and 452 would swap spaces maybe. 75 Impérial mpg is about what a GS 650 gets - I believe. This is maybe why there is a demand for the 450 power, weight and handling.
Hi Nathan, question for you. Im considering downsizing from my V85TT to one of these or a Himi 450 or Voge 525. Its ease of handling that's driving this. I'd be using it mainly on the road and touring with only occasional excursions on to gravel or easy dirt roads. Your thoughts?
CF moto for me. It feels lighter to manage than the Himalayan and 'better' on the open road over distance. no brainer for me and having had the guzzi I think you'll like the cfs character
I have the same Mitas tyres for my 450MT and my only concern is if I run the pressure to low it may come of the rim and be too difficult to reseat on the bead.
throttle response.... recently been fiddling with my crf 450 and have found that disconnecting the non-adjustable throttle cable from the throttle tube has transformed my bike.... must be some sort of conflict between the non-adjustable cable and the adjustable cable.... and the amount of free play you like could this also apply to lots of other bikes 🤔
I have a T7 and have tested the CFmoto twice now. I’m not really sure it’s a fair comparison due to the cost difference mind. I was riding a CRF250 and I think if I’d had bought the 450 without riding a T7 I’d have been very happy with it but I think it’s now hard to move from a T7 the the 450. I think the build and overall quality is fair better on the T7. The weight feels massively different, the 450 feels way lighter but also feels too low to the ground (kinda strange saying that I know) it’s more like the pegs are too low and close to the seat maybe? for beginners it would feel more reassuring I think. Maybe the impressions of the bike are dictated by where you ride it, I’m in wales and I’m not sure the bike would hold up to the rocks around here?
Interesting feedback Ian. Can't see why the CF moto wouldn't fair well in Wales. But if you're assessing it as a pure trail bike it's going to have limitations. Less ground clearance than a t7 as well. Bound to suit different people for different reasons.
I've heard these are great bikes in so many ways, but i sat on one at the NEC show and it just felt so bulky at the front and between the knees... Like an Africa Twin. I guess I'd have to ride one properly, but it didn't immediately appeal as something to take off-road.
Have you, or anyone else, had any experience with the KURZ FS250? They are a very cheap (£2,500 + £300 delivery) green lane bike. Come with lights and indicators. They weigh around 115kg dry if I remember correctly. They're for sale in the UK. Parts appear to be very cheap for it as well. Not too fast - around 75mph I think, but fast enough providing you don't plan to take it on a motorway. Other than that I don't really know the specs, like seat height etc.
Good question and I honestly don't know. The bike has a data logger built in that tracks location etc so I suspect that might interrupt any attempt to work around it. Others have had theirs remapped and de catted etc. I'm just happy to leave as is
@@nathanthepostman I'm still waiting my delivery here in Aus, But I asked and the new stock is already ecu updated. Also there was a recall on earlier models regarding the subframe holding water and 2 small drainage holes needed to be drilled. New models already have the issue addressed. It's selling incredibly well here.
Think updates will be linked to chassis number and they’ll know which market the bike was sold to, only releasing updates for that bike if it suits regulations in that market. So don’t think a vpn would fool the manufacturer.
I keep wondering why haven't the established manufacturers come up with a bike like this. Surely they must know the markets they supply, or not maybe. I can pretty much describe exactly the bike I'd like to buy and I think it would appeal to a lot of other people too, but it's just not there. Looking at what's available I know it's possible, power, weight, etc. It's puzzling. I may yet get a 450MT, it certainly appeals. I'd also pay £1000 more for something that fit my spec.
I think there's just such a lag in the system with the big companies which just doesn't move with the same pace as the market. So means they're behind the curve. I suspect there's also a lot more profit in flogging the big bikes so that's where they've been keen to steer things. They've got caught napping tho for sure
£7500 for a DRZ? They're going to kill it before it has a chance, and it won't have anything like the breadth of abilities of the CF, RE or a 500X. Suzuki need to look hard at this. With free luggage and very low APR rates as tempters to move new bikes I see very few of on the road, I don't think they'll sell many. And I like suzuki, I've had 6 of them. Ride safe 👍
@@teneretraveller8980I know. It just won't compete at that price, although to be fair the crf300 rally is creeping up on £7k. New drz would do great at £6500
Update from a fellow Aussie from back in July 2024 regarding the software update via the app for that jerky throttle at low rpm. Not sure how long it will take to come through the Euro market though if the MOT don't like you? ua-cam.com/video/lHWA3nOuGTg/v-deo.html
I’ve loved your content on this bike. You’re so good at explaining the things that matter to a prospective rider. I’ve had my 450MT for 3 weeks now and have only done a couple of fire trail rides, but so far I’m very impressed. I’m keen to put some of those XT+ tyres on and then I can tackle some real off road conditions.
Thanks Mr deep. Let us know how you get on with the tyres!
Really enjoy your simple, honesty, down to earth insights, Nathan. The best analysis of small adventure bikes available. Love my 450MT as well
Very concise review for the year. Thank you
Lovely work as ever, counting the days until she lands next month. Keep up the great work amigo
Perfect video to start the day! 👍
Thanks Nathan, it is really helpful to hear a well considered review of a bike from an owner’s perspective. You Tube at its best.
2025 will be an epic time for small capacity adventure bikes.... Tuareg 457, BMW 460GS, KTM 390 ADV R.... the CF MOTO will have some serious competition. Good for everyone!
There is a new KLE500 coming too
Like your videos. Honest, straight forward and no bullshit. 👍
A beautiful machine for a brilliant price 👍👍👍.... Great review 🍻💫🍻
I was lucky to get my 450mt in July 24, I have been careful to only add a new bash plate, some old stronger hand guards I had from a previous bike and I have added upper crash bars, but having seen how strong the plastics are from others bikes that have been in quite severe drops I may remove the crash bars. Taking the slack out of the throttle cables really does help reduce the snatch, and it doesn't take long to adjust your riding so as to forget about it. Coming from a Tenere I just don't miss the extra power, the 450 seems more like it has 60hp rather than 42. I love my 450 and it will be with me for many years.
I still do like that CFMoto, if they'd have been a few years older and second hand ones were out there I'd hve got one over the Himalayan. Great video and review as always, and congratulations on raising so much, I enjoyed the evening and the talks.
Nice direct summary. well done
I love the look of this bike.
Cracking real world balanced review gained by personal and customer / client experience. Great to have it as part of the stable for comparison with others at the price point. Roll on the 390 Adventure R release.. could be tempted to swap my 400X for one of
Those.
Thanks Nathan I love my cf mate
So looking forward to getting mine in March
Great review, so balanced as ever.
Thanks Nathan. Very interesting.
I was surprised to see CF Moto at the LAMMA agricultural show with their Quads and 'Side by Sides'... They looked impressive too.
Another great review, thank you. I hope the big hammer next to you is a not a ‘Freudian slip…’
Best selling bike in Australia for 2024
According to my Internet search Yamaha was the best selling bike in Australia followed by Honda Kawasaki KTM TRIUMPH.
@@mikerider58 best selling bike not brand collective range.
@@UncannySenseAs the importers for FCMoto, RE etc don't release their sales figures they can claim what they like, it doesn't mean we believe them.
Just a quick general comment on tyre changing on the trail. Are you aware of "bead buddies", they're a motocross thing, they act like a second set of levers that hold the bead in place while your refitting the tyre. Come from motocross. Make refitting tyres without ripping the tube a hell of a lot easier. Can easily carry a couple in your toolkit. Thought I'd flag them up for anyone who hasn't heard of them.
Yeah I've heard of them and carrying some would be great. How they'd fair on the mitas I'm not sure
@@nathanthepostman They're no real help in getting the tyre off (but if you've already got a puncture (and a spare tube) you don't care about pinching the tube when getting it off), but they make a massive difference when re-fitting the tyre if you're own your own (they are designed for MX tyres after all), they're really just a bracket that holds the bead in place while you move your levers to the next position (you just keep sliding them along your rim as you work your way around). I've used them quite a lot on some pretty ugly tyres and find them to be a great help. I've got a couple of different makes in my workshop, cheaper ones on Ebay are quite a bit thinner and lighter than the 'official bead buddies' but actually work just as well and take up a lot less space/weight so I think they're actually better. They're only about a tenner each (you need two), might be interesting to do a little review on them for your viewers (no I don't have any financial interest in them 😊). I would note though, that it's quite easy to scratch your rims with them if you're not careful (if you care about such things).
@@jonm7272I have one and it helps a little. I fit my own tyres in the main, I agree with Nathan, stiff tubed tyres are a no no.
@@simonbirt6121 I must say, I hate tube tyres, total PITA. I ride a mountain bikes (push bikes) as well and we did away with tubes on a long time ago. Never tried it, but I have seen people converting m/c spoke tube rims to tubeless the same way we do with MTBs (i.e. lock on valves and taping the rims). Maybe some safety issues with bead security on big heavy m/c though so never tried it myself though was sorely tempted with my old 650 Transalp and Heidenhau K60 Scouts, they were no fun getting off and on without pinching the tubes.
@@nathanthepostman I used them when fitting Heidenau K60 Scouts to my bike, and they did help. Not sure how the Scouts compare to E09s on the toughness of the sidewall though.
Got rid of my f 650 gs for the 450 mt and it dose everything and more love it
Great review 👍 There’s a vid on how to change your rear tire on the road where a lady manages to fit her own mitas e-07 …. I do believe she is a Valkyrie goddess though. Deffo a tyre shop for us mere mortals 😅
Haha. She did better than me!
Good honest review again
But sorry I'm not sold on this as an Adventure bike
Think you got it spot on by saying it sounds good and looks good
Most people that buy this bike will take up a few lanes and down the cafe, and that will fit the image
I'm told it can go thousands of miles before the valves need looking at
But it can only go 3k before the oil & filter need changing
The 450 himmy is by far the better bike as far as long distance adventures, purely on servicing alone
20/30/40 k Adventure will see a healthy gain just on the servicing which in turn helps pay for the trip
I think once again the biking public have been left wanting by a brand that really needs to look at the service intervals on an Adventure bike
The old 411 was 3000 miles valve checks and that didn't stop anyone travelling on them. The new one is valves every 6000 miles for the first 12000 miles and is a big job. Personally I think the regular oil on the CF moto is a better option than fairly regular valves on the Himalayan.
Thanks for the update Nathan. When comparing to the T7's weight with pricing put aside would it come down to rider's ability to adapt to the top heavyness of the T7 vs lower weight distribution of the 450MT? Specifically in the more technical trails vs on flat surfaces.
The engine sound is sublime. Not keen on snatchy throttles. They shouldn't exist. My KTM is like this. But, like you, I ride around it. Sticking the 390 Duke on the market, Nathan. I want a CL500. Nick
Thank you !
Spokes tarnishing is just normal and it’s OK. It’s just discolouration of the passivating coating. Just keep them clean and accept that it shows the passivating coating is working.
Your comment on comparative reduced weight to a Honda CRF250L Rally will be put to the test.
I have a 28" inseam and the CRF250L Rally has a 35.5" seat height. I'm thinking of getting a 450MT for my longer trips to find gravel routes.
I'm looking forward to testing my skills with a bigger motorcycle where I can touch the ground with both feet
Brilliant video mate happy 2025, as a nx500 owner I agree, I think a lot comes down to usage case an being honest with yourself on how an what you are gonna ride also personal managability, an choosing the bike that fits with that weight wise.
I’ve just sold my 1150gsa with the way my shoulder is an the reality of that, I couldn’t handle the weight most of the time, I’ll really miss it though had some amazing memories on it.
lad who bought it moved it around like me moving a nx500. An ex gs trophy rider N rode it away in the snow n ice to new adventures and touring.
For me next im gonna go back really lightweight like the crf300 rally but something a bit different.
With going for a lightweight bike it’s gonna open up the possibility of some green laning an trail riding again, am I might even go lighter than a typical adv bike. Especially with the confirmed move to Somerset in April opens up a lot more places to ride a dealers like Rugged Roads not being to far away.
(Also all the Ktm shops bar one are shut up here near me an that’s 2 hours away)
For dad the nx500 fits him perfectly as he is only road riding for his adventures or very easy gravel roads with his stage 3b/4 prostate cancer. N our Norway trip will be hotels for his comfort as his energy comes back from the radiotherapy more he wants to give some lanes a go so I’ll get him something very light for that.
I agree though the cf moto seems well more serious for trail riding.
For me the 390 adv r is an interesting proposition although the lower exhaust is a concern can’t believe they did that 🙃
Totally agree on pricing, being very into my British bike history I think the Japanese could end up repeating that if they are not careful.
I think if Suzuki had done a DRZ Rally an it was 7,500 maybe but it’s certainly up there price wise.
You only have to look at the Kove an all the comments on Hrc’s Instagram of people asking when are we gonna see something like that from Japan.
They could have really done something different with a lightweight bike with low tanks on the 300 rally.
The Triumph is still unknown here in Canada. The 390 and 452 would swap spaces maybe. 75 Impérial mpg is about what a GS 650 gets - I believe. This is maybe why there is a demand for the 450 power, weight and handling.
Hi Nathan, question for you. Im considering downsizing from my V85TT to one of these or a Himi 450 or Voge 525. Its ease of handling that's driving this. I'd be using it mainly on the road and touring with only occasional excursions on to gravel or easy dirt roads. Your thoughts?
CF moto for me. It feels lighter to manage than the Himalayan and 'better' on the open road over distance. no brainer for me and having had the guzzi I think you'll like the cfs character
@nathanthepostman cheers Nathan
Will you be looking into a kove 450?
No I don't think so. Would be nice to but probably a bit extreme for my average customer
It's a cool bike, for sure.
I have the same Mitas tyres for my 450MT and my only concern is if I run the pressure to low it may come of the rim and be too difficult to reseat on the bead.
Hi man, can you help with tyres for my 300 rally? Maybe 50/50 tyre and what sizes you would go for? Not many with the oem sizes! Tia
throttle response.... recently been fiddling with my crf 450 and have found that disconnecting the non-adjustable throttle cable from the throttle tube has transformed my bike.... must be some sort of conflict between the non-adjustable cable and the adjustable cable.... and the amount of free play you like could this also apply to lots of other bikes 🤔
Does it feel much heavier than a 390 adv off road ?
Yeah a bit. But more suited to off road than the KTM. The new KTM will be a good step forward I think
is the throttle still snatchy even after the last firmware update?
Europe hasn't had the update yet
I have a T7 and have tested the CFmoto twice now.
I’m not really sure it’s a fair comparison due to the cost difference mind.
I was riding a CRF250 and I think if I’d had bought the 450 without riding a T7 I’d have been very happy with it but I think it’s now hard to move from a T7 the the 450.
I think the build and overall quality is fair better on the T7. The weight feels massively different, the 450 feels way lighter but also feels too low to the ground (kinda strange saying that I know) it’s more like the pegs are too low and close to the seat maybe? for beginners it would feel more reassuring I think.
Maybe the impressions of the bike are dictated by where you ride it, I’m in wales and I’m not sure the bike would hold up to the rocks around here?
Interesting feedback Ian. Can't see why the CF moto wouldn't fair well in Wales. But if you're assessing it as a pure trail bike it's going to have limitations. Less ground clearance than a t7 as well. Bound to suit different people for different reasons.
I've heard these are great bikes in so many ways, but i sat on one at the NEC show and it just felt so bulky at the front and between the knees... Like an Africa Twin. I guess I'd have to ride one properly, but it didn't immediately appeal as something to take off-road.
It's more like an adventure bike than a dual-sport. The wider tank is great in rain and cooler temperatures. The fuel range is also a benefit
Is that meshy thing on the seat standard?
Cool cover or equivalent👍
@ktmtravels3727 thanks
Have you, or anyone else, had any experience with the KURZ FS250? They are a very cheap (£2,500 + £300 delivery) green lane bike. Come with lights and indicators. They weigh around 115kg dry if I remember correctly. They're for sale in the UK. Parts appear to be very cheap for it as well. Not too fast - around 75mph I think, but fast enough providing you don't plan to take it on a motorway. Other than that I don't really know the specs, like seat height etc.
I know Freddie Dobbs mentioned them. Yeah cheap bikes. Could be great. Haven't tried one yet
could you use a phone VPN and update the ecu with the app using another region...I know its possible to do in Australia
Good question and I honestly don't know. The bike has a data logger built in that tracks location etc so I suspect that might interrupt any attempt to work around it. Others have had theirs remapped and de catted etc. I'm just happy to leave as is
@@nathanthepostman I'm still waiting my delivery here in Aus, But I asked and the new stock is already ecu updated. Also there was a recall on earlier models regarding the subframe holding water and 2 small drainage holes needed to be drilled. New models already have the issue addressed. It's selling incredibly well here.
Think updates will be linked to chassis number and they’ll know which market the bike was sold to, only releasing updates for that bike if it suits regulations in that market. So don’t think a vpn would fool the manufacturer.
I think the 390 is going to shake things up pretty much.
Agreed
I hope somebody "leaks" that map if won't pass the "certification".
I keep wondering why haven't the established manufacturers come up with a bike like this. Surely they must know the markets they supply, or not maybe. I can pretty much describe exactly the bike I'd like to buy and I think it would appeal to a lot of other people too, but it's just not there. Looking at what's available I know it's possible, power, weight, etc. It's puzzling.
I may yet get a 450MT, it certainly appeals. I'd also pay £1000 more for something that fit my spec.
I think there's just such a lag in the system with the big companies which just doesn't move with the same pace as the market. So means they're behind the curve. I suspect there's also a lot more profit in flogging the big bikes so that's where they've been keen to steer things. They've got caught napping tho for sure
£7500 for a DRZ?
They're going to kill it before it has a chance, and it won't have anything like the breadth of abilities of the CF, RE or a 500X.
Suzuki need to look hard at this.
With free luggage and very low APR rates as tempters to move new bikes I see very few of on the road, I don't think they'll sell many.
And I like suzuki, I've had 6 of them.
Ride safe 👍
@@teneretraveller8980I know. It just won't compete at that price, although to be fair the crf300 rally is creeping up on £7k. New drz would do great at £6500
Update from a fellow Aussie from back in July 2024 regarding the software update via the app for that jerky throttle at low rpm. Not sure how long it will take to come through the Euro market though if the MOT don't like you? ua-cam.com/video/lHWA3nOuGTg/v-deo.html
can't say fairer than that really
And THAT ,I believe, is the main cause of KTM came failure!