The addition of the A naturals after 17:59 adds new meaning to this already beautiful piece. It sounds as if we are in a dream that is about to end, and we are begging to stay asleep for just a little while longer. So bittersweet.
@@Richard.Atkinson Any suggestions where i should start with Haydn? Ive already listened to all his op 20 and op 33 quartets. Im probably going to see how many of his symphonies i can listen to in one day lol. Maybe then i can be inducted into the Haydn Fanatic Lodge haha.
@@leonhardeuler6811 I would suggest to continue listening to the quartets, then both oratorios, the 4 last piano sonatas, the f minor variations for piano, the Paris and London symphonies, the sinfonia concertante and trumpet concerto (truly amazing, especially with Stockhausen's cadenza) and the six last piano trios, I especially love E Major. The Sturm und Drang symphonies are superb too, I then personally love the piano Capriccio in G and Fantasia in C. Some very nice stuff is to be found in the masses.
I think tonal music, classical in particular provides so much drama and emotion. With all this modern stuff modulating or just wandering melodically without a real key or center, there’s no sense of home base. With classical especially, it’s so damn tonal that with these deviations, it’s just begging to be pulled back to the tonic and when we are deprived of that it’s so much more emotionally taxing and intense. Absolutely brilliant.
It took me many decades to realize just how great Haydn is. The depth of intelligence is hidden inside many layers of humor, wit, sensitivity, and craft that are not readily apparent without a keen ear and some understanding of music theory. Thank you for your thoughtful and keen analysis and for sharing your enjoyment with us.
Thanks, that was damn fascinating, enhanced my understanding and appreciation of this masterpiece. It's no wonder Mozart only recognized one composer as his equal = Joseph Haydn. And Haydn, for his part, thought Mozart the greatest composer he'd ever known. Such a shame Mozart never lived to hear this.
@@landonmiller6943 Mozart didn't "know" Bach, he was at some point introduced to his scores and was like "oh shit", but I don't personally know if this had happened at the time he was praising Haydn. At any rate, he was most likely just referring to composers he had actually known in person, as it's well known that he admired Bach's music too.
@@SpaghettiToaster I know Mozart had access, through one of his wealthy patrons, to some of Bach's scores and had examined a manuscript copy of the Well-Tempered Clavier, I'm sure that made an impression. Mozart was notoriously brutal re his judgement regarding other composers (I'm the best, all the rest are mediocrities) so anyone he singled out for praise is interesting from that perspective. Just how aware composers were at the time of other composers' work is another interesting question in itself. Of course this is subjective, and I revere Bach's music as I do the works of Beethoven, Haydn and others, but for me, Mozart is the God of Music, the Universal Composer.
Mozart never recognized Joseph Haydn as his only equal. He was far more interested in Michael Haydn. I actually find Joseph Haydn very overrated in terms of harmony; handling dissonance. It never seemed very effective compared to Michael Haydn's. Take for example string quintet in G (composed in Salzburg, 1773 before the publication of Joseph Haydn's Op.20) ua-cam.com/video/9gDxnpn5vb4/v-deo.html Missa sancti Hieronymi (1777) ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html symphony in C (1784) ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html Joseph just sounds like a guy who got kicked out of his choir after his puberty and self-taught himself with Fux's book.
What a gorgeous and inventive movement. It strongly evokes for me the nostalgic emotions present in much of the late Beethoven Quartets. Thank you for this video.
When I was young, Haydn was called the "Father of the Quartet". Now he is known as the "Father of the Symphony". I guess it is because so little of the classic quartet catalogue is played live, anymore. However, I love his quartets and this was the one I first heard live at a college recital and which caused mer to fall in love with classical music. Thanks for your great, entertaining and thoughtful videos.
The ‘Father of…’ nonsense really needs dropping - its utter baloney. A father by definition must be in at the conception: regarding the symphony, one example will suffice. Haydn wrote his first symphony in 1757; Johann Stamitz - the most important composer of the first Mannheim school - *died* in 1757 having composed about 60 modern Classical symphonies, some with four movements including a Minuet, and some with clarinets. Need I go on…
Richard, I have known the quartets you mention all my life and thought I knew them, but I am learning from you very quickly that I do not know them..... your examination of the inner key structure of these quartets is astounding and indeed revelatory. Thank you very much.
MIne too. I am not very fond of comic opera but Haydn's, at intervals, are superb. Better than Mozarts. But my opinion is influenced because I do not value the threatical aspect, of course.
Your videos just get better and better, Richard 😊 I like that you're choosing to give more attention to harmony in this one. I've just analysed Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy on my channel, which of course similarly explores mediant relationships. Would also love to see more 'Deep Dives' from you, like your wonderful Death and Transfiguration vid 👍
The op. 76 quartets really foreshadows Beethoven's late quartets with its emotional depth, introspective expression and writing technique, for example the development of the first movement of his op. 76 no 2 is really similar with the opening of Beethoven's 132. Really enjoy your videos!
The Op. 76 string quartets are one of the pinnacles of music! And this slow movement of No. 6 (and the whole work itself) might be my favorite of the bunch. Would love to hear you analyze the crazy finale of this piece as well
It might be my favorite of his quartets, but there are so many other candidates (and not just from this opus!). Its finale will definitely be a future video.
Been a Haydn admirer since forever. Always happy to see his name popping up. I'm not a music theory connoisseur, though. I suppose knowledge is a means to an end. The end, in Music, is what it finally sounds like - even to a layman. In Haydn's case, it works for me. Sadly, not so in the case of JSB. I believe I'm missing out on something great and wonderful. I love to see how others love and understand it.
A lot of the joy i get from Bach's music is just by being impressed. I suggest you go to Richard's page and search for his videos on Bach. I also just like listening to melodic lines dance around each other which Bach was a master of.
Bach wrote a lot of very diverse music, maybe listen to some more variety and see what you like. I'm personally a big fan of his Brandenburg concertos and his violin concertos, for example. The reconstructed violin concerto from his harpsichord concerto is also an absolute banger in my opinion, there are some great recordings by Isabelle Faust.
I never paid much attention to Haydn but after watching your essay, I've been listening to his late quartets on repeat so thank you! I would be so excited to hear you talk about Richard Strauss's Metamorphosen someday. When it comes to harmony, it's one of my absolute favorites.
Thank you for the wonderful video; to anyone interested I highly recommend the Doric Quartet for this set and many other Haydn quartets, their blend of sound and expressive qualities are just out of this world
Great analysis as usual. I had no idea that Haydn could be so adventurous in his modulations! I had always been struck by Beethoven's use of the distant key of E major to present the secondary theme of the first movement of his Waldstein sonata in C major, but that pales in comparison to what Papa Haydn does in this string quartet movement! When I listened to its initial theme played in E minor after listening to it in B major I felt that the floor was shaking!
9:43 "Its third movement features a trio section consisting of a hilarious set of variations on, I kid you not, a descending and ascending major scale." Me: (laughs in classical) ha ha haydn!
If someone wanted to ask me what movement to listen to while tripping on psychedelics, I would not recemmned this piece. It needs no assistance :) Thank u Richard once again!!
"Beethoven and Schubert often get credit for pioneering the use of mediant relationships" Yes, and that's so unfair. Sonata Hob XVI:50 anyone? Anyway, from a musical analyst to another, thank for your fascinating vids, Mr. Atkinson! I am only at beginning of this one, it's gonna be a treat!
What an amazing piece of music, great video as well! Very much looking forward to more video's about the op. 76 quartets, since I do not know them half as good as I should and want to.
I didn't know Haydn used such distant relations as chromatic mediants. The only times I have seen Haydn modulate to distant keys they were 1) not as distant as the Chromatic Mediant(for example C major to D major or vice versa, distant, but not that distant) and 2) Via Circle of Fifths Progression. I know Mozart used chromatic mediant relations in some of his pieces, but I didn't know Haydn used them.
Great video thanks. I think I would view the Bmajor - Aflat major as a I - VI move with a Tierce de Picardie with the Vi chord spelled as G sharp minor (hence Gsharp major with the Picardie 3rd)
wow, what a beautiful fantasia!! truly remarkable and gorgeous. i will honestly make an arrangement of this, but nonetheless, please keep bringing this beautiful music with the amazing analyze you give! thanks to you i know more about Haydn, but if you know others composer’s wonderful counterpoint with dissonances and gorgeous melodies, please bring it to the channel! thank you for your effort. edit: please excuse my english, is not my first language.
I think these late Haydn quartets might be even greater than Mozart's (hard comparison to make though since they are different in style) and represent the peak of the style pre-Beethoven (who was clearly influenced by them in his early quartets). Extremely underappreciated in my opinion, thanks for covering them!
@@davidecarlassara8525 I can't agree with that. I can understand Richard's assertion that they are greater than the Op. 18, which some consider somewhat overwrought or less than perfectly comfortable with their own structure (I have to admit that I personally love listening to them, as well as other early Beethoven chamber music, I think they have a fantastic energy and are just incredibly pleasant and exciting to hear). And they're also clearly not as crazy and experimental as these Haydn ones. On the other hand, I think his late quartets are some of, perhaps the most profound, transcendent, immediately touching yet technically masterful (and structurally ingenious) music there is, period. And as for the middle quartets, they represent essentially everything Haydn was so great at (except for the jokes perhaps?) pushed to absolute perfection. I think if Haydn could've heard Op. 59, he would've happily conceded this himself. As for Haydn's late ones, like this Quartet, I'd say they are most similar to Beethoven's late-middle style, so opp. 74 and 95, and I would consider those as (even) greater than these, although I really think that they're all pinnacles of quartet writing. Of course, that's just how I feel about them, and I think when we're talking about these greatest of works that basically anybody who knows them considers masterpieces, what's greater than what is a super personal matter. @Richard Atkinson On another note, have you considered making a video on either Medtner's piano concertos or his violin sonatas (2 and 3)? Both are monsters of motivic composition, among the best pieces in their respective genres and , much like the Haydn quartets, woefully underappreciated. If you like the Brahms symphonies and chamber pieces I'm sure you must love those as well?
@@SpaghettiToaster If i may add. op 59 has a lot of jokes and satire. My favorite example is the third movement of op 59 no 2: Beethoven, when commissioned to write op 59, was given some Russian Themes to base some movements on. There is a quote from one of Bach's sons that talk about how when Bach hears a subject he predicts what techniques the composer should put that subject through (stretto, inversion etc). In a very similar manner Beethoven noticed somehow that one of the themes could be formed into a 4 part canon. Instead of using this seriously like Bach would, Beethoven in the Allegretto of op 59 no 2 parodied student fugal exercises (you can actually find some of Beethoven's student exercises). He puts the theme in 2 bizarre fugues, a canon, and then another closer canon of some fragments of the theme.
I actually find Joseph Haydn very overrated in terms of harmony; handling dissonance. It never seemed very effective compared to Michael Haydn's. Take for example string quintet in G (composed in Salzburg, 1773 before the publication of Joseph Haydn's Op.20) ua-cam.com/video/9gDxnpn5vb4/v-deo.html Missa sancti Hieronymi (1777) ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html symphony in C (1784) ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html Joseph just sounds like a guy who got kicked out of his choir after his puberty and self-taught himself with Fux's book.
another great key relation between movements is his last piano sonata, which is also in Eb major, but has its 2nd movement in E natural. plus, I'd like to propose a new standard. instead of prelude and fugue, let's have tone-meandering and fugue
After a black day, I play Haydn, and feel a little warmth in my hands. The keys are ready. Kind hammers fall. The sound is spirited, green, and full of silence. The sound says that freedom exists and someone pays no tax to Caesar. I shove my hands in my haydnpockets and act like a man who is calm about it all. I raise my haydnflag. The signal is: "We do not surrender. But want peace." The music is a house of glass standing on a slope; rocks are flying, rocks are rolling. The rocks roll straight through the house but every pane of glass is still whole. Tomas Tranströmer
No. Pepe does not come from “Papa”. “Pepe” is the familiar form we use in Spain for “José” (Joseph). The german equivalent is “Sepperl”, as Haydn was called ad home when a child.
@@pepehaydn7039 Lo sé muy bien, porque el español también es mi primer idioma. Por eso digo que también podrías llamarte Lalo (otro apelativo común en el español) Bruckner.
Wow ! Now I can begin to appreciate Hadyn for more than surpruse and humor . Beethoven really follows him . The sfz ? Do we find this in Hadyn or just sudden fortes . The fantasy open form here is really something I wasn't expecting from simple knowledge of the Hadyn piano sonatas . I now have much fun exploration to do !
18:05 Surprised you didn't mention the fantastic dissonance here in bar 97, where the top note of the melody is a B over a G# chord. That really caught me off guard the first time I heard it. Though it did prepare me for the astoundingly modern-sounding ending.
@@Richard.Atkinson It's a pretty funny coincidence too, as just days ago a friend of mine and I were messing around with English cadences and chords and passages that contain both 3rds. Naturally I brought this up as an example. And now that I've mentioned it, do you plan on ever doing a video on the English cadence?
Haven't seen the whole video yet, however, string players may default to different fingerings depending on what's written (raised 3rd finger on C# vs. lowered 4th finger on Db) C# - D# -C# can be played on the same string without shifting or switching strings. But that's just one possibility
I guess that because in those four bars we are going from Bb minor to B major, some enharmonic wizardry had to be applied, or else it would really come to a Cb major. The viola is the first instrument to start playing in the enharmonic key (A#m instead of Bbm), in the next bar the second violin joins (both playing B instead of Cb) and in the next bar 1st violin and cello join (all coming into a C#m instead of Dbm) and then continue to cadence together in B instead of Cb. That’s my hypothesis!
@@jordansmith6811 You never lower the 4th finger; if the 4th finger is on D then the third is on C#/Db and the second is on C (you'd extend the 4th to play a D#). Hence in a pure string score, I can imagine that the publisher would elect to respell some flats as sharps to better reflect the mechanics of string playing. Never seen it myself though.
@@juanferestrada Yes, that's right. It's simply that the enharmonic seam has to be crossed at some point, and since the four parts are being read independently, they don't all need to switch over to sharps at the same time. It pretty certainly is NOT an indication of subtly different pitches or of different fingering suggestions, even though those might come about as an accidental (ha) result.
Beethoven’s *counterpoint* lessons lasted on and off about 14 months from his arrival in Vienna in November 1792 until Haydn’s departure for his second visit to England in January 1794. Beethoven Opus 1 and Opus 2 were both published *after* the counterpoint lessons had finished, but you’re right they *precede* Opus 76. The question you pose is a fair one, but it’s almost entirely Haydn ‘influencing’ Beethoven - though I think Haydn had a go at writing scherzi in the Beethoven-style after hearing some of his first efforts.
@@Richard.Atkinson The other response of course is that Papa in Italian - the musical lingua franca of the age - means the Pope; papà is what Italian children call there father and is pronounced differently as indicated by the accent; Haydn was never made Pope!
Great video as ussuall! Please include me in United Lodge of Haydn Fanatics! Btw. The new green labeled theme at the end of the movement is probably a quote from a slow movement of another string quartet, which ends very similar, and is commonly associated with some harmonic issues. I am sure, You know, which quartet I mean.
@@maciejkubera1536 Yes, I believe I know exactly what you're talking about: the 2nd movement of Mozart's K. 465 ("Dissonance") quartet (m. 75). Sorry for responding a year later!
@@Richard.Atkinson Yes, that's exactly, what I meant! Thank You for Your answer, I like Your videos very much, and it's great to chat with You any time!
Richard, I know you focus on orchestral works, but Beethoven has got a really incredible and long fugue section in sonata no 29, you obviously know it. Why don't you anylise it for us??? Would love it, thanks for another great viddo
Joseph Haydn, the Tree of Jesse of occidental music ... inexhaustible in inventing rules and their exceptions. Seven-bar melodies, six-movement symphonies, Tristan chord ... hard to find anything that can't be found in Haydn.
Of course he is, but his harmony is notoriously hard to analyze, and his counterpoint is usually not strict and doesn't lend itself to the visualizations used in these videos (there would be overlapping colored boxes all over the place).
Haydn’s quartets are usually identified by their opus number, since they were published in groups. Also, since the Op. 1, 2, and 3 quartets are not considered true string quartets by many (including me) and Op. 3 was possibly not composed by Haydn, the Hoboken numbers are less useful for the quartets.
My quartet that I play in found this boring. But we have a theme and variations in the first movement, an incredible modulatory second movement, a third movement whose trio is built on simple scales and a fourth movement that has irregular rhythm. I tried to explain what is going on. But they have no interest. Let's just play and not analyze they say. Mozart was no slouch either with regard to foreign keys. .
All my comments were offered before I heard the presenter's. comments. I've felt this way about 76 6 for years. Each time we play this I feel a sense of participation in a great composer's experimentation.
@@Richard.Atkinson Daniel: asks what Richard's favorite concerto is Richard: names 20% of Mozart's piano concertos 😅 I completely agree with the selection, though - for me it's 466, 482 & 488
The complete and utter lack of any credible evidence for any of its extraordinary supernatural claims. And also the vast amount of damage that superstitious and unscientific thought patterns have caused throughout human history.
@@Richard.Atkinson People of any persuasion may destroy. Something pretty significant should have occurred to have driven the people around Jesus to die for him. What is the alternative to disbelief? Afterlife in oblivion?
@@Richard.Atkinson I really enjoy your work by the way. Its inspired me in my own. Im an atheist to christian convert to be more clear. I believe we are likeminded in many things.
@@thekantor1964 "People of any persuasion may destroy." True, but some persuasions actively cause people to destroy, who wouldn't have otherwise destroyed. "Something pretty significant should have occurred to have driven the people around Jesus to die for him." The same can be said for every cult leader who has ever inspired people to commit suicide. It's certainly not evidence for any of the supernatural claims. "What is the alternative to disbelief? Afterlife in oblivion?" For me, life has greater purpose and more urgency without a belief in an afterlife. But even so, why believe in silly myths for which there is no evidence, just because it makes you feel better?
@@Richard.Atkinson "some persuasions actively cause people to destroy, who wouldn't have otherwise destroyed." I used to think this. The conclusion that I reached was that I threw a pretty hard ball to Christians. The printing press took in Europe because of the printing of the Bible - The reformation led to the translation of the bible into different European languages increasing literacy, and the proliferation of the printing press facilitated greater academic scholarship and scientific research. I cannot speak for or excuse the atrocities of men that have led to deaths as a result of ideological difference - but I think that deaths such as these can be found for any reason at all especially in the realm of politics. "The same can be said for every cult leader who has ever inspired people to commit suicide. It's certainly not evidence for any of the supernatural claims." I also used to struggle with this. Apart from Christianity, I rationalize my faith in this manner : There is or there isn't a creator. If there is a creator, and he has made an afterlife for us, do I deserve to go there based upon my works alone? I believe that I cant since no deed of mine could ever be traded for an eternity's worth of time. To resolve this bind, Christianity happens to offer an out in the savior. The evidence that I accept is the testimony of the individuals which reported the disappearance of Jesus' dead body from his Tomb, which was guarded by Jews with a keen interest in disproving false prophets. This, along with the recorded deaths of people who recanted their previous faith and had the conviction to die for this new one, is honestly sufficient for me. The fidelity of the recorded writings points to a very sudden and dramatic moment, which is a lot more than what other faiths can point towards as "evidence". I am happy with accepting something with less than acceptable evidence if it deals with something for which we will likely never have concrete evidence for (The "why" and "first cause" of existence). "For me, life has greater purpose and more urgency without a belief in an afterlife." I lived in terror as an unbeliever. Time is your only currency. I lived in timidity and in great fear of all things that could harm the hourglass I had left. I am in peace in my faith now, and from a utilitarian perspective, I live with great mental health and a lower blood pressure and have met many new friends who love beautiful and good things (as you do) in my Church. From a faith based perspective, I now believe I have an eternity ahead of me, where I will be with my good fellow Christians beside the creator in a paradise forever in the consort of angels.
Mozart was far more interested in Michael Haydn. I actually find Joseph Haydn very overrated in terms of harmony; handling dissonance. It never seemed very effective compared to Michael Haydn's. Take for example string quintet in G (composed in Salzburg, 1773 before the publication of Joseph Haydn's Op.20) ua-cam.com/video/9gDxnpn5vb4/v-deo.html Missa sancti Hieronymi (1777) ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html symphony in C (1784) ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html Joseph just sounds like a guy who got kicked out of his choir after his puberty and self-taught himself with Fux's book.
I’d say the quintet you posted is about on the level of Joseph Haydn’s Op. 1. Op. 20 is already far more interesting, and Op, 76 are some of the greatest compositions in the entire chamber music repertoire, so your comment is a little like posting on a video of Beethoven’s 9th Symphony that Johann Baptist Wenzel’s symphonies are much greater and that Beethoven was just some guy. 😅
@@Richard.Atkinson You mean you don't hear the chromaticism of the slow movement from Mozart's Jupiter symphony in that? Try: ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html Joseph Haydn is not very expressive with harmony and dissonance, hence he sounds pompous and happy all the time. It's why Berlioz, Schumann, Hanslick, etc criticized him (for being boring). Op.20 is pretty banal ua-cam.com/video/4MkZGv1heqU/v-deo.html in terms of part-writing in many parts. ua-cam.com/video/4MkZGv1heqU/v-deo.html it sounds like a student work. ua-cam.com/video/4MkZGv1heqU/v-deo.html Try Michael Haydn's Requiem in C minor (a work Michael wrote when he was just 34), the music of a real master.
@@Richard.Atkinson I mean Joseph struggles a lot when writing counterpoint, and his use of non-chord tones is tamer and less harsh on the ear than Mozart and Michael Haydn's. It just doesn't have as much emotional range as theirs. But I'll give him some credit for the floating feel of Op.76 No.6 (something Schubert was also good at, but he wasn't a contrapuntist) ua-cam.com/video/8LuSHOEscR8/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/qgakwzwdH3c/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/Tg5kFjJ38EQ/v-deo.html (composed in 1772)
Gather round, the Grand Master of the United Lodge of Haydn Fanatics has brought us new tales of our Great Papa! 😇
I salute you, member
@@davidecarlassara8525 **performs secret handshake**
@@matthiasm4299 What’s the password?
@@Richard.Atkinson Right, the password.... Uhhhmmmm, lemme see..... I think it was "Laus Josepho!" 😇
I hope that's correct 😬😬😬
Ahh yes. Greetings fellow members. Let us enjoy this masterpiece.
The addition of the A naturals after 17:59 adds new meaning to this already beautiful piece. It sounds as if we are in a dream that is about to end, and we are begging to stay asleep for just a little while longer. So bittersweet.
It's so bluesy!
What an underrated composer! He deserves so much more analysis than people give him, me included.
??? Underrated ???
He is pretty famous.
@@DanielFahimi Haydn is famous, not his works.
@@leonhardeuler6811 I agree! He is well-known but hardly anyone knows much of his music. Definitely underrated.
@@Richard.Atkinson Any suggestions where i should start with Haydn? Ive already listened to all his op 20 and op 33 quartets. Im probably going to see how many of his symphonies i can listen to in one day lol.
Maybe then i can be inducted into the Haydn Fanatic Lodge haha.
@@leonhardeuler6811 I would suggest to continue listening to the quartets, then both oratorios, the 4 last piano sonatas, the f minor variations for piano, the Paris and London symphonies, the sinfonia concertante and trumpet concerto (truly amazing, especially with Stockhausen's cadenza) and the six last piano trios, I especially love E Major. The Sturm und Drang symphonies are superb too, I then personally love the piano Capriccio in G and Fantasia in C. Some very nice stuff is to be found in the masses.
This very movement was what made me a Haydn fan - I heard it on BBC radio 3 on a car journey in 1976!
I think tonal music, classical in particular provides so much drama and emotion. With all this modern stuff modulating or just wandering melodically without a real key or center, there’s no sense of home base. With classical especially, it’s so damn tonal that with these deviations, it’s just begging to be pulled back to the tonic and when we are deprived of that it’s so much more emotionally taxing and intense. Absolutely brilliant.
It took me many decades to realize just how great Haydn is. The depth of intelligence is hidden inside many layers of humor, wit, sensitivity, and craft that are not readily apparent without a keen ear and some understanding of music theory. Thank you for your thoughtful and keen analysis and for sharing your enjoyment with us.
This harmonies had me tearing up throughout the whole video. Thank you Richard. Your passion for Haydn is *very* contagious
Musicians : "what key are we playing in?"
Haydn : "Yes"
Awesome video, btw.
Thanks, that was damn fascinating, enhanced my understanding and appreciation of this masterpiece.
It's no wonder Mozart only recognized one composer as his equal = Joseph Haydn.
And Haydn, for his part, thought Mozart the greatest composer he'd ever known.
Such a shame Mozart never lived to hear this.
So Mozart knew that J.S. Bach, whom he admired, was better than him? It makes sense to me.
@@aukej6024 There's no record of Mozart declaring the same of J.S. Bach.
@@landonmiller6943 Mozart didn't "know" Bach, he was at some point introduced to his scores and was like "oh shit", but I don't personally know if this had happened at the time he was praising Haydn. At any rate, he was most likely just referring to composers he had actually known in person, as it's well known that he admired Bach's music too.
@@SpaghettiToaster I know Mozart had access, through one of his wealthy patrons, to some of Bach's scores and had examined a manuscript copy of the Well-Tempered Clavier, I'm sure that made an impression. Mozart was notoriously brutal re his judgement regarding other composers (I'm the best, all the rest are mediocrities) so anyone he singled out for praise is interesting from that perspective. Just how aware composers were at the time of other composers' work is another interesting question in itself.
Of course this is subjective, and I revere Bach's music as I do the works of Beethoven, Haydn and others, but for me, Mozart is the God of Music, the Universal Composer.
Mozart never recognized Joseph Haydn as his only equal. He was far more interested in Michael Haydn. I actually find Joseph Haydn very overrated in terms of harmony; handling dissonance. It never seemed very effective compared to Michael Haydn's. Take for example
string quintet in G (composed in Salzburg, 1773 before the publication of Joseph Haydn's Op.20)
ua-cam.com/video/9gDxnpn5vb4/v-deo.html
Missa sancti Hieronymi (1777)
ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html
symphony in C (1784)
ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html
Joseph just sounds like a guy who got kicked out of his choir after his puberty and self-taught himself with Fux's book.
What a gorgeous and inventive movement. It strongly evokes for me the nostalgic emotions present in much of the late Beethoven Quartets. Thank you for this video.
When I was young, Haydn was called the "Father of the Quartet". Now he is known as the "Father of the Symphony". I guess it is because so little of the classic quartet catalogue is played live, anymore. However, I love his quartets and this was the one I first heard live at a college recital and which caused mer to fall in love with classical music. Thanks for your great, entertaining and thoughtful videos.
The ‘Father of…’ nonsense really needs dropping - its utter baloney.
A father by definition must be in at the conception: regarding the symphony, one example will suffice.
Haydn wrote his first symphony in 1757; Johann Stamitz - the most important composer of the first Mannheim school - *died* in 1757 having composed about 60 modern Classical symphonies, some with four movements including a Minuet, and some with clarinets.
Need I go on…
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Yes, I prefer to call him the first great master of the string quartet.
The only bad thing about your channel Dr. Atkinson is that I get feverishly impatient during the hiatus in between video publications.
That hiatus always prompts me to rewatch his past videos many times over; perhaps that was his plan.
Richard, I have known the quartets you mention all my life and thought I knew them, but I am learning from you very quickly that I do not know them..... your examination of the inner key structure of these quartets is astounding and indeed revelatory. Thank you very much.
That was so interesting, thank you for the analysis of this incredible piece of music!❤
My favourite composer,I love this piece so much, I wasn't even HOPING for this video. Thank you, thank you Richard.
MIne too. I am not very fond of comic opera but Haydn's, at intervals, are superb. Better than Mozarts. But my opinion is influenced because I do not value the threatical aspect, of course.
Your videos just get better and better, Richard 😊 I like that you're choosing to give more attention to harmony in this one. I've just analysed Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy on my channel, which of course similarly explores mediant relationships. Would also love to see more 'Deep Dives' from you, like your wonderful Death and Transfiguration vid 👍
What's also interesting is HOW he modulates exactly. But including it in this video would make it too complicated. Great video, thank you!
Wonderful! I love the Erdődy Quartets. Each of them is a masterpiece.
Yet another excellent analysis done with love. I think Herr Haydn would appreciate this.
The op. 76 quartets really foreshadows Beethoven's late quartets with its emotional depth, introspective expression and writing technique, for example the development of the first movement of his op. 76 no 2 is really similar with the opening of Beethoven's 132. Really enjoy your videos!
The fugue in the fantasia movement of op. 76 no. 6 calls to mind op. 131.
Awesome video! I love Haydn but you make me love him even more! Thank you!
The Op. 76 string quartets are one of the pinnacles of music! And this slow movement of No. 6 (and the whole work itself) might be my favorite of the bunch. Would love to hear you analyze the crazy finale of this piece as well
It might be my favorite of his quartets, but there are so many other candidates (and not just from this opus!). Its finale will definitely be a future video.
Indeed, I can only imagine what the proposed complete set of six he intended for Op. 77 would've sounded like based on the two and a half he completed
Been a Haydn admirer since forever. Always happy to see his name popping up. I'm not a music theory connoisseur, though. I suppose knowledge is a means to an end. The end, in Music, is what it finally sounds like - even to a layman. In Haydn's case, it works for me. Sadly, not so in the case of JSB. I believe I'm missing out on something great and wonderful. I love to see how others love and understand it.
A lot of the joy i get from Bach's music is just by being impressed. I suggest you go to Richard's page and search for his videos on Bach.
I also just like listening to melodic lines dance around each other which Bach was a master of.
Bach wrote a lot of very diverse music, maybe listen to some more variety and see what you like. I'm personally a big fan of his Brandenburg concertos and his violin concertos, for example. The reconstructed violin concerto from his harpsichord concerto is also an absolute banger in my opinion, there are some great recordings by Isabelle Faust.
I never paid much attention to Haydn but after watching your essay, I've been listening to his late quartets on repeat so thank you! I would be so excited to hear you talk about Richard Strauss's Metamorphosen someday. When it comes to harmony, it's one of my absolute favorites.
What a treat, much appreciated.
Thank you for the wonderful video; to anyone interested I highly recommend the Doric Quartet for this set and many other Haydn quartets, their blend of sound and expressive qualities are just out of this world
Oh, yes. The slow movements of Haydn's Op. 76 Nos. 5 & 6 are some of the most ethereal in the repertoire.
Thank you for another Papa Haydn video. Looking forward to see more !
Great job 👍
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR I LOVE THIS PIECE AND NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT
It's such a great movement!
Great analysis as usual. I had no idea that Haydn could be so adventurous in his modulations! I had always been struck by Beethoven's use of the distant key of E major to present the secondary theme of the first movement of his Waldstein sonata in C major, but that pales in comparison to what Papa Haydn does in this string quartet movement! When I listened to its initial theme played in E minor after listening to it in B major I felt that the floor was shaking!
Haydn never fails to surprise!
The Fantasia movement has been a favorite of mine for years now! Thank you for this upload!
9:43 "Its third movement features a trio section consisting of a hilarious set of variations on, I kid you not, a descending and ascending major scale."
Me: (laughs in classical) ha ha haydn!
that's a great analysis! Please keep on this marvelous work...
Thanks for your great analysis of this breathtaking movement !
Those were indeed some spicy dissonances at the end!
Wonderful! Thanks a lot! Like S.Richter said of him, dear, mild Haydn - but he was full of surprises as well!
Love the analysis. Great work from a great opus from a great composer! Would love your take on op. 50 no. 4 (and many others). Keep them coming!
Really well done Richard; a great little talk that will be a real eye/ear opener for many viewers.
Thanks for uploading this, I enjoyed it very much.
Thank you for your many comments and responses to comments on my Haydn videos, that have also taught me things about Haydn!
If someone wanted to ask me what movement to listen to while tripping on psychedelics, I would not recemmned this piece. It needs no assistance :) Thank u Richard once again!!
"Beethoven and Schubert often get credit for pioneering the use of mediant relationships" Yes, and that's so unfair. Sonata Hob XVI:50 anyone? Anyway, from a musical analyst to another, thank for your fascinating vids, Mr. Atkinson! I am only at beginning of this one, it's gonna be a treat!
What an amazing piece of music, great video as well! Very much looking forward to more video's about the op. 76 quartets, since I do not know them half as good as I should and want to.
You have no idea how much I appreciate your videos, hope I can be able to donate someday.
No need to donate! You can support by sharing them!
I really love this channel - great choices
Excellent analysis, Richard!
I don't know if there is ANYTHING more sublime than Haydn Op. 76. I hope to see a vid on no. 1 mvt 1!
I didn't know Haydn used such distant relations as chromatic mediants. The only times I have seen Haydn modulate to distant keys they were 1) not as distant as the Chromatic Mediant(for example C major to D major or vice versa, distant, but not that distant) and 2) Via Circle of Fifths Progression. I know Mozart used chromatic mediant relations in some of his pieces, but I didn't know Haydn used them.
Great video thanks. I think I would view the Bmajor - Aflat major as a I - VI move with a Tierce de Picardie with the Vi chord spelled as G sharp minor (hence Gsharp major with the Picardie 3rd)
wow, what a beautiful fantasia!! truly remarkable and gorgeous. i will honestly make an arrangement of this, but nonetheless, please keep bringing this beautiful music with the amazing analyze you give! thanks to you i know more about Haydn, but if you know others composer’s wonderful counterpoint with dissonances and gorgeous melodies, please bring it to the channel! thank you for your effort.
edit: please excuse my english, is not my first language.
I love your work ! I'd love to hear some analysis of yours of Sibelius symphonies if you consider doing it one day
I think these late Haydn quartets might be even greater than Mozart's (hard comparison to make though since they are different in style) and represent the peak of the style pre-Beethoven (who was clearly influenced by them in his early quartets). Extremely underappreciated in my opinion, thanks for covering them!
I think they are also greater than Beethoven’s Op. 18 (which I also think are great)!
Very unpopular opinion, but I think the Op. 76-77 surpass every single Beethoven quartet.
@@davidecarlassara8525 I can't agree with that. I can understand Richard's assertion that they are greater than the Op. 18, which some consider somewhat overwrought or less than perfectly comfortable with their own structure (I have to admit that I personally love listening to them, as well as other early Beethoven chamber music, I think they have a fantastic energy and are just incredibly pleasant and exciting to hear). And they're also clearly not as crazy and experimental as these Haydn ones.
On the other hand, I think his late quartets are some of, perhaps the most profound, transcendent, immediately touching yet technically masterful (and structurally ingenious) music there is, period.
And as for the middle quartets, they represent essentially everything Haydn was so great at (except for the jokes perhaps?) pushed to absolute perfection. I think if Haydn could've heard Op. 59, he would've happily conceded this himself.
As for Haydn's late ones, like this Quartet, I'd say they are most similar to Beethoven's late-middle style, so opp. 74 and 95, and I would consider those as (even) greater than these, although I really think that they're all pinnacles of quartet writing. Of course, that's just how I feel about them, and I think when we're talking about these greatest of works that basically anybody who knows them considers masterpieces, what's greater than what is a super personal matter.
@Richard Atkinson On another note, have you considered making a video on either Medtner's piano concertos or his violin sonatas (2 and 3)? Both are monsters of motivic composition, among the best pieces in their respective genres and , much like the Haydn quartets, woefully underappreciated. If you like the Brahms symphonies and chamber pieces I'm sure you must love those as well?
@@SpaghettiToaster If i may add. op 59 has a lot of jokes and satire. My favorite example is the third movement of op 59 no 2: Beethoven, when commissioned to write op 59, was given some Russian Themes to base some movements on. There is a quote from one of Bach's sons that talk about how when Bach hears a subject he predicts what techniques the composer should put that subject through (stretto, inversion etc). In a very similar manner Beethoven noticed somehow that one of the themes could be formed into a 4 part canon. Instead of using this seriously like Bach would, Beethoven in the Allegretto of op 59 no 2 parodied student fugal exercises (you can actually find some of Beethoven's student exercises). He puts the theme in 2 bizarre fugues, a canon, and then another closer canon of some fragments of the theme.
I actually find Joseph Haydn very overrated in terms of harmony; handling dissonance. It never seemed very effective compared to Michael Haydn's. Take for example
string quintet in G (composed in Salzburg, 1773 before the publication of Joseph Haydn's Op.20)
ua-cam.com/video/9gDxnpn5vb4/v-deo.html
Missa sancti Hieronymi (1777)
ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html
symphony in C (1784)
ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html
Joseph just sounds like a guy who got kicked out of his choir after his puberty and self-taught himself with Fux's book.
another great key relation between movements is his last piano sonata, which is also in Eb major, but has its 2nd movement in E natural.
plus, I'd like to propose a new standard. instead of prelude and fugue, let's have tone-meandering and fugue
Any chance you could analyse parts of his two oratorios-The Creation & The Seasons? I would love that 🙂
Great video! 🤩
After a black day, I play Haydn,
and feel a little warmth in my hands.
The keys are ready. Kind hammers fall.
The sound is spirited, green, and full of silence.
The sound says that freedom exists
and someone pays no tax to Caesar.
I shove my hands in my haydnpockets
and act like a man who is calm about it all.
I raise my haydnflag. The signal is:
"We do not surrender. But want peace."
The music is a house of glass standing on a slope;
rocks are flying, rocks are rolling.
The rocks roll straight through the house
but every pane of glass is still whole.
Tomas Tranströmer
Haydn, a composer who manages to be, at the same time, beloved and underrated or misunderstood. Long live Haydn.
Like Bruckner, my other favourite composer.
@@pepehaydn7039 So you can also use "Lalo Bruckner" as a user name.
@@pepehaydn7039 And Carl Nielsen, my other (other other other other) favorite composer!
No. Pepe does not come from “Papa”. “Pepe” is the familiar form we use in Spain for “José” (Joseph). The german equivalent is “Sepperl”, as Haydn was called ad home when a child.
@@pepehaydn7039 Lo sé muy bien, porque el español también es mi primer idioma. Por eso digo que también podrías llamarte Lalo (otro apelativo común en el español) Bruckner.
Makes me want to meet the Master himself, or, better still, witness a conversation between The Master and RA our Guide.
You don't understand how much I wish I could have this conversation!
Wow ! Now I can begin to appreciate Hadyn for more than surpruse and humor . Beethoven really follows him . The sfz ? Do we find this in Hadyn or just sudden fortes . The fantasy open form here is really something I wasn't expecting from simple knowledge of the Hadyn piano sonatas . I now have much fun exploration to do !
Yes, as much as I like the piano sonatas, the quartets are a whole different world.
Just clicked on this video, 20 minutes of joy in it’s finest form awaits. Just one question, do you play an instrument apart from piano? Thanks (:
18:05 Surprised you didn't mention the fantastic dissonance here in bar 97, where the top note of the melody is a B over a G# chord. That really caught me off guard the first time I heard it. Though it did prepare me for the astoundingly modern-sounding ending.
I almost mentioned that one too, but it’s not quite as crazy as the ones I highlighted.
@@Richard.Atkinson It's a pretty funny coincidence too, as just days ago a friend of mine and I were messing around with English cadences and chords and passages that contain both 3rds. Naturally I brought this up as an example.
And now that I've mentioned it, do you plan on ever doing a video on the English cadence?
Pls do a video about Richard Strauss Horn Concerto no 2, especially the 1st movement
Can you explain the enharmonic spelling in measure 35, where the Bb-minor section starts?
Why do we see C#-D#-C# in the viola part?
Haven't seen the whole video yet, however, string players may default to different fingerings depending on what's written (raised 3rd finger on C# vs. lowered 4th finger on Db)
C# - D# -C# can be played on the same string without shifting or switching strings.
But that's just one possibility
I guess that because in those four bars we are going from Bb minor to B major, some enharmonic wizardry had to be applied, or else it would really come to a Cb major.
The viola is the first instrument to start playing in the enharmonic key (A#m instead of Bbm), in the next bar the second violin joins (both playing B instead of Cb) and in the next bar 1st violin and cello join (all coming into a C#m instead of Dbm) and then continue to cadence together in B instead of Cb. That’s my hypothesis!
@@jordansmith6811 You never lower the 4th finger; if the 4th finger is on D then the third is on C#/Db and the second is on C (you'd extend the 4th to play a D#). Hence in a pure string score, I can imagine that the publisher would elect to respell some flats as sharps to better reflect the mechanics of string playing. Never seen it myself though.
@@juanferestrada Yes, that's right. It's simply that the enharmonic seam has to be crossed at some point, and since the four parts are being read independently, they don't all need to switch over to sharps at the same time. It pretty certainly is NOT an indication of subtly different pitches or of different fingering suggestions, even though those might come about as an accidental (ha) result.
Even Dittersdorf started going to weird keys
Such as?
Op. 76 is dated 1797-98.
Haydn started lessons with Beethoven in 1792.
Beethoven Op. 1 and Op. 2 were already out there.
Who is influencing whom here?
Beethoven’s *counterpoint* lessons lasted on and off about 14 months from his arrival in Vienna in November 1792 until Haydn’s departure for his second visit to England in January 1794.
Beethoven Opus 1 and Opus 2 were both published *after* the counterpoint lessons had finished, but you’re right they *precede* Opus 76.
The question you pose is a fair one, but it’s almost entirely Haydn ‘influencing’ Beethoven - though I think Haydn had a go at writing scherzi in the Beethoven-style after hearing some of his first efforts.
Bump for Papa Haydn
Haydn’s father was a wheelwright and is pretty irrelevant to anything related to this fine video.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 😅 I'm going to use this response from now on when people call him that!
@@Richard.Atkinson
The other response of course is that Papa in Italian - the musical lingua franca of the age - means the Pope; papà is what Italian children call there father and is pronounced differently as indicated by the accent; Haydn was never made Pope!
Great video as ussuall! Please include me in United Lodge of Haydn Fanatics! Btw. The new green labeled theme at the end of the movement is probably a quote from a slow movement of another string quartet, which ends very similar, and is commonly associated with some harmonic issues. I am sure, You know, which quartet I mean.
@Richard Atkinson Sorry, i meant only the last entry in cello.
@@maciejkubera1536 Yes, I believe I know exactly what you're talking about: the 2nd movement of Mozart's K. 465 ("Dissonance") quartet (m. 75). Sorry for responding a year later!
@@Richard.Atkinson Yes, that's exactly, what I meant! Thank You for Your answer, I like Your videos very much, and it's great to chat with You any time!
Will you do Beethoven 9 third movement next? Please please please I beg of you. It is similar style to this movement.
Richard, I know you focus on orchestral works, but Beethoven has got a really incredible and long fugue section in sonata no 29, you obviously know it. Why don't you anylise it for us??? Would love it, thanks for another great viddo
Joseph Haydn, the Tree of Jesse of occidental music ... inexhaustible in inventing rules and their exceptions. Seven-bar melodies, six-movement symphonies, Tristan chord ... hard to find anything that can't be found in Haydn.
Ritchie what do you think about Scriabin? Is he worth a video?
Maybe someday!
Of course he is, but his harmony is notoriously hard to analyze, and his counterpoint is usually not strict and doesn't lend itself to the visualizations used in these videos (there would be overlapping colored boxes all over the place).
Is there any particular reason why you list Haydn pieces by their opus number and not by their Hoboken catalogue number?
Haydn’s quartets are usually identified by their opus number, since they were published in groups. Also, since the Op. 1, 2, and 3 quartets are not considered true string quartets by many (including me) and Op. 3 was possibly not composed by Haydn, the Hoboken numbers are less useful for the quartets.
Fantasia = don't mind me, just doing Bruckner things
👏
My quartet that I play in found this boring. But we have a theme and variations in the first movement, an incredible modulatory second movement, a third movement whose trio is built on simple scales and a fourth movement that has irregular rhythm. I tried to explain what is going on. But they have no interest. Let's just play and not analyze they say. Mozart was no slouch either with regard to foreign keys.
.
All my comments were offered before I heard the presenter's. comments. I've felt this way about 76 6 for years. Each time we play this I feel a sense of participation in a great composer's experimentation.
Hmm to my ears A flat major doesn't seem at all far from B major.... Why
17:58 That's blues!!!
Haydn use magic better than Harry Potter!
What do you think is Mozart's best piano concerto?
Do a video of that.
There's an embarrassment of riches to select from for sure.
Probably 466, 482, 488, 491, and 503?
@@Richard.Atkinson
Daniel: asks what Richard's favorite concerto is
Richard: names 20% of Mozart's piano concertos 😅
I completely agree with the selection, though - for me it's 466, 482 & 488
@@Richard.Atkinson Forgot 453...
@@matthiasm4299 Actually 17% to be precise.
What drove you away from Christianity?
The complete and utter lack of any credible evidence for any of its extraordinary supernatural claims. And also the vast amount of damage that superstitious and unscientific thought patterns have caused throughout human history.
@@Richard.Atkinson People of any persuasion may destroy.
Something pretty significant should have occurred to have driven the people around Jesus to die for him.
What is the alternative to disbelief? Afterlife in oblivion?
@@Richard.Atkinson I really enjoy your work by the way. Its inspired me in my own.
Im an atheist to christian convert to be more clear. I believe we are likeminded in many things.
@@thekantor1964 "People of any persuasion may destroy." True, but some persuasions actively cause people to destroy, who wouldn't have otherwise destroyed.
"Something pretty significant should have occurred to have driven the people around Jesus to die for him." The same can be said for every cult leader who has ever inspired people to commit suicide. It's certainly not evidence for any of the supernatural claims.
"What is the alternative to disbelief? Afterlife in oblivion?" For me, life has greater purpose and more urgency without a belief in an afterlife. But even so, why believe in silly myths for which there is no evidence, just because it makes you feel better?
@@Richard.Atkinson "some persuasions actively cause people to destroy, who wouldn't have otherwise destroyed."
I used to think this. The conclusion that I reached was that I threw a pretty hard ball to Christians. The printing press took in Europe because of the printing of the Bible - The reformation led to the translation of the bible into different European languages increasing literacy, and the proliferation of the printing press facilitated greater academic scholarship and scientific research. I cannot speak for or excuse the atrocities of men that have led to deaths as a result of ideological difference - but I think that deaths such as these can be found for any reason at all especially in the realm of politics.
"The same can be said for every cult leader who has ever inspired people to commit suicide. It's certainly not evidence for any of the supernatural claims."
I also used to struggle with this.
Apart from Christianity, I rationalize my faith in this manner : There is or there isn't a creator. If there is a creator, and he has made an afterlife for us, do I deserve to go there based upon my works alone? I believe that I cant since no deed of mine could ever be traded for an eternity's worth of time. To resolve this bind, Christianity happens to offer an out in the savior. The evidence that I accept is the testimony of the individuals which reported the disappearance of Jesus' dead body from his Tomb, which was guarded by Jews with a keen interest in disproving false prophets. This, along with the recorded deaths of people who recanted their previous faith and had the conviction to die for this new one, is honestly sufficient for me. The fidelity of the recorded writings points to a very sudden and dramatic moment, which is a lot more than what other faiths can point towards as "evidence". I am happy with accepting something with less than acceptable evidence if it deals with something for which we will likely never have concrete evidence for (The "why" and "first cause" of existence).
"For me, life has greater purpose and more urgency without a belief in an afterlife."
I lived in terror as an unbeliever. Time is your only currency. I lived in timidity and in great fear of all things that could harm the hourglass I had left. I am in peace in my faith now, and from a utilitarian perspective, I live with great mental health and a lower blood pressure and have met many new friends who love beautiful and good things (as you do) in my Church.
From a faith based perspective, I now believe I have an eternity ahead of me, where I will be with my good fellow Christians beside the creator in a paradise forever in the consort of angels.
Mozart was far more interested in Michael Haydn. I actually find Joseph Haydn very overrated in terms of harmony; handling dissonance. It never seemed very effective compared to Michael Haydn's. Take for example
string quintet in G (composed in Salzburg, 1773 before the publication of Joseph Haydn's Op.20)
ua-cam.com/video/9gDxnpn5vb4/v-deo.html
Missa sancti Hieronymi (1777)
ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/SfbwNRKuVRo/v-deo.html
symphony in C (1784)
ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html
Joseph just sounds like a guy who got kicked out of his choir after his puberty and self-taught himself with Fux's book.
You might be more interested in Michael Haydn, but Mozart certainly wasn’t 😅.
I’d say the quintet you posted is about on the level of Joseph Haydn’s Op. 1. Op. 20 is already far more interesting, and Op, 76 are some of the greatest compositions in the entire chamber music repertoire, so your comment is a little like posting on a video of Beethoven’s 9th Symphony that Johann Baptist Wenzel’s symphonies are much greater and that Beethoven was just some guy. 😅
@@Richard.Atkinson You mean you don't hear the chromaticism of the slow movement from Mozart's Jupiter symphony in that? Try: ua-cam.com/video/DPPHUk-gYbg/v-deo.html
Joseph Haydn is not very expressive with harmony and dissonance, hence he sounds pompous and happy all the time. It's why Berlioz, Schumann, Hanslick, etc criticized him (for being boring). Op.20 is pretty banal ua-cam.com/video/4MkZGv1heqU/v-deo.html in terms of part-writing in many parts. ua-cam.com/video/4MkZGv1heqU/v-deo.html it sounds like a student work. ua-cam.com/video/4MkZGv1heqU/v-deo.html
Try Michael Haydn's Requiem in C minor (a work Michael wrote when he was just 34), the music of a real master.
@@Richard.Atkinson I mean Joseph struggles a lot when writing counterpoint, and his use of non-chord tones is tamer and less harsh on the ear than Mozart and Michael Haydn's. It just doesn't have as much emotional range as theirs. But I'll give him some credit for the floating feel of Op.76 No.6 (something Schubert was also good at, but he wasn't a contrapuntist)
ua-cam.com/video/8LuSHOEscR8/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/qgakwzwdH3c/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Tg5kFjJ38EQ/v-deo.html (composed in 1772)
@@pdqbach4552 Agree to completely disagree, vociferously! 😀
This serves as a reminder of how monotonous, unimaginative and unoriginal Haydn's music is. Richard, you are still young. You'll learn.
😈 Troll says what?
You’re comment simply proves the point that an opinion is a judgement not necessarily based on knowledge and understanding.
You’ll learn.