I love how Noita's wand-building is so obscenely thorough that you can build a set of wands that just teleport you to another parallel universe. This is an insane level of smackery the game just lets you do. You don't need a cheat console to type your X position... you can build your own.
Really hope this game persists and grows in the long run. I think the devs are a bit undwerwhelmed with the response but the discord is still on fire and people like LST, DOS, Nymphs or Fury really churn out content constantly and it does. Not. Get. Boring.
Precisely why I think the game just completely wasted this mechanic on a really uninspired shooting game. I feel like if this were a zachtronics-like instead of a rogue-like, with crafted puzzles and challenges where you have to build wands for a specific task, this game would've been an absolute masterpiece. The fun in this game always comes when you finally get that one spell or modifier that completes your wand and I feel like that would be the better direction for the game instead of just throwing it all in the hands of chance, I'd reckon 70% of the people who bought this game don't even get that deep into the main mechanic of the game, horrible waste of potential.
@@kaustik185 Underwhelmed devs? The game has 40,000 reviews and is overwhelmingly positive, it got a ton of press coverage and sold extremely well.. It has also received a ton of content updates. What could you possible be referring to?
I would have loved to see the gold room in these parallel wordls, because they tend to get more and more distorted with every parallel world, imagine what a W512 gold room would look like
I ended up trying to find the gold room earlier on in this process (maybe in the 100th parallel world? I don't remember exactly) but it seems like it wasn't even there. I was actually in a post-game world, having finished NG+28, so it seems the gold room was nonexistent. However, I'll soon be uploading the VODs of this entire process in 2 parts over on my other channel. It wasn't actually *too* long - maybe 3 hours total? I also am not quite finished with this run/save yet, so I'll make sure to look for the gold room again (the one down at the bottom of the world) before I end the run and...possibly go 512+ worlds in the opposite direction as well. I might also have to go up and down, since people in the comments are asking about those. Oof.
@@FuryForged did you make this wand that teleports you to a parallel worlds without cheats? Just by collecting all the spells needed throughout 28 runs?
They need to put an easter egg in the 511th world now, as its the last stable one. It would be interesting to see an npc or just some text talking about parallel world travel and telling you not to continue.
Dude it becomes unstable after the third world. I think the only reason he was able to make it this far is because he avoided loading a lot of stuff by just teleporting there. Most runs will crash after you yoink perks from about 4 PUs away in either direction.
It makes sense that there would be soft and hard limits at 256 and 512, since those are powers of two. Also funny cameos with the acid rain at 2:30 and the slime rain at 7:55
I find it quite surprising actually that the world size has anything to do with it. I'd have guessed the limit being something like 2^n pixels or 2^n chunks, not 2^n worlds
@@peabrainiac6370 Well, consider that he's playing NG+, which makes the horizontal size of each world also a power of 2, 2^6 to be precise. So it would appear that the world limit is 2^15 chunks out from the origin.
@@TheEnmineer I ran the numbers and I think I figured out what’s going on. Since the ng+ worlds are 64 chunks across and each chunk is 512 pixels, the limit of 256 worlds means that we are starting to see really strange behavior at an x coordinate of 8388608, which happens to be 2^23. Single precision floating point values use 4 bytes, with 1 bit for the sign, 8 bits for the exponent, and 23 bits for the significant value. Assuming that the wall isn’t intentionally coded in, that would mean that player position coordinates are probably stored as single precision floating point numbers, and the reason we stop being able to move correctly in the x direction is that the game stops being able to properly detect position changes any smaller than 10 pixels. So, only something that can move 5 or more pixels in a single machine operation can actually move, since these would be rounded to the closest value. The reason we would see strange things happening in earlier words is similar, as the game loses the ability to detect movements of less than 0.1. Based on the math, I think you’re right, and that we should expect to see the same error occur on non-ng+ at just 234 worlds.
@@rustarus6117 basically, when you try to increase a really big number, if the number is big enough, the computer will round it back to the starting value.
Games that give you mechanics and let you go to town with them even if they get ridiculous is always nice. It's like a scale that's directly related to how interesting and fun a game is. Gungeon has pre-baked synergies with set effects, no real breaking to be had. Binding of Isaac has lots of weird effects, there's plenty that let you be immortal and lag the game to hell and back and break things in all manner of ways. Then Noita lets you build a boomerang railgun where the projectile teleports what it hits into a new parallel world because why the hell not? Generally if a game gives you tools and lets you abuse them to the point the game crashes, that game has great potential to be insanely replayable. My gungeon replays might just give me a different gun synergy where I do more damage. My Noita replays might give a fungal shift that changes how the entire game is played in a way I've never seen before.
Not necessarily. While Isaac and Noita have insane amounts of replay value, I find Gungeon the most fun to play of the games mentioned because of how enjoyable the moment to moment gameplay is. I have spent far more time in Isaac, but I liked Gungeon more for the highly polished bullet hell gunplay.
just wanted to say that I love that you related this amazing game with those two amazing games and their 'game breaks' I do understand and agree with what you mean with gungeon being a set in stone kinda thing since you can't really break it. Isaac also seems kinda fragile in where it straight up crashes if you push it too far. it also doesn't even have that many settings to help the game push further sadly. I have yet to play Noita and I can't wait to actually break the game further than I had done so with Isaac (doing blank card or diplopia wild card shenanigans) and Gungeon (haven't played in a while but most I can remember I've done was probably duct tape stuff with inf ammo guns or just clone)
@@cosmologicl I have broken gungeon, but only because of mods. Some interaction between 4 key related items in 1 run got me firing 100 (Base) damage keys with every shot of every gun that would spawn like 10 keys when they hit an enemy, and my damage went up with every key I had when I had thousands. Another run had chests room have 4-6 chests each and like 3 mimics in every room, utterly drowning me in items and I had so many bullet modifiers that the game would nearly freeze with 1 clip of continuous fire
New player: This EDR must lead to an invisible wall... Experienced player: There are no invisible walls in Noita. Wizard: So ive made a wand that can teleport through parallel universes and...
It's that bell curve meme 2iq brainless: there must be an invisible wall inside the EDR! Average experienced Noita: there are no invisible walls in Noita! FuryForged, the god atop them all: well you see...
I had some fun parallel world instability recently on a very long run I did. Turns out if your computer isn't quite good enough, you can get stuck in a fun cycle when teleporting into an area that contains objects with physics where the game continues trying to generate those objects until you either leave the area and come back, or crash. Basically turned every square inch of hanging vines into a rapidly growing mass of vegetation that does not enjoy being rendered.
It seems that things started getting extremely weird at x coordinates of 2^23. This makes sense, because this sort of behavior wouldn’t be unexpected if you are trying to increment a floating point number close to its precision limit. 2^23 is the precision limit for single precision floating point numbers, and it makes sense to use single precision instead of double precision to save computing time. That still doesn’t explain the crash at world 512 though. I can’t think of any reason for that to occur.
This is super interesting! Thanks for sharing, I had a feeling there might be a more hard limit somewhere less then 2^10 worlds out due to limits similar to minecraft's farlands
@Sabizos ^ and * are different mathematically, ^ represents a power/exponent whereas * is multiplication. 2*10 would be 2+2+2+2.... so on. 2^10 would be 2*2*2*2... so on.
these invisible walls i suspect are caused by the decreasing precision of floating point values. every time the number doubles we lose a bit more precision. when the game moves you it then has to round (truncate) your position, and once your movement speed is smaller than the accuracy the game has, it just rounds you back to where you were. if you increase your movement speed enough you should be able to move "normally" again until world 1024, given you solve the crashing issue.
the crashing may be how noita stores position and can not be bypased without changing the code eg pos > int or float or double(probably not the float and double)
Part of me is saddened that I’ve spoiled myself on loads of stuff, but at the same time I enjoy these videos so much and I’d probably never learn most of this anyway Also that travel wand is INCREDIBLE. Love this game and it’s mechanics so much. Man I need to play it more
I normally would also not spoil secrets for games, but I'm glad I did for this one bc there's no way id EVER see this stuff myself with how casual I play in comparison 😂
ah, good old floating point numbers. the larger the interger part the smaller the fractional part. basically meaning: every power of 2 you move away from 0, they loose half of their precision. which, if you're far away from 0 causes jerky movement of the camera/player/particles, stretched effects, and similar phenomenon. they all could easily be solved by replacing the floats with fixed point numbers, at the expensive of some extra memory and CPU time.
Mainly an issue when you exhaust all significand bits. First running out of bits for imprecise fractions, then ultimately crossing 1 meaning there can never be an odd number anymore. If you somehow get past that then you lose 2, 4, 8 and so on as you slide those 23 bits further away from 0.
"extra memory and CPU time" that might make things unfeasible quickly with so much going on. not exactly gaming related, but we moved our in-house renderer to 512-bit precision last year because we kept bumping into precision issues...but it's nothing you would do on consumer hardware.
Shield breaks at 256 and game breaks at 512 . Looks very much as powers of two by me, that lines up. Floating point (most likely) exponent increments and calculations accuracy becomes fatally low, causing a fatal error
This is a normal world, this is a parallel world, and this is an ascended parallel world or you can just call it a parallel world 2, and this is to go even further beyond
i just noticed that but the eyes on the starting pillar at 7:55 are switching on and off, i wonder if it's just a glitch or if it's normal or of it's some kind of secret
You started seeing issues at world 256 then a hard limit at world 512. Both of those are integer limits, 8-bit and 9-bit respectively or more likely signed 9-bit and signed 10-bit. It'd be interesting to see what madness might happen if you can get past the hard limit.
Those are important numbers for integers, but they're also important for floating point numbers, which I think is what we're seeing here. Floating point numbers get less and less precise as one gets further and further from the origin. For each factor of two further from the origin you get, you lose one binary digit of accuracy. Eventually the precision gets low enough that you can't even represent every integer, meaning things can only occupy every other pixel position, making them look interleaved. Double the distance again, and only positions that are a multiple of 4 can be represented, and so on. This also becomes a problem for movement eventually, as when the game tries to update your position using your speed, it ends up at a new location that just ends up rounding down to the same position you started at, leaving you stuck.
512, a significant number. It's 2 to the power of 9. Likely the position calculation has a 10 bit number used to note the parallel world that you are in. 9 bits for the world and 1 for the direction.
This is surprising to me because I always remember hearing that one shouldn't go too far into parallel worlds because it quickly becomes unstable and can crash your game. If I recall it was something around only going out up to 4 or 6 in each direction before it because too unable to explore any more. This new knowledge of the actual limits one can travel really open the game up more for me! So many new wands, spells, perks, and reroll machines to work with!
u may have tried it already, but ill warn u: it actually DOES get unstable past like 3 worlds on each side the thing is, u CAN go there, but uh it doesnt mean its a 100% good idea
Discovered something interesting in regards to this.... I fell for an ungodly amount of time, and made it to about 2 million (pixles? units?) under the world, at which point the game completely broke and ultimately crashed. This being said, I did the math and as it turns out, I had "wrapped" worlds about 8 times just about before crashing. Now this is odd to me given that 512 is the magic number left to right, but slightly under 8 is the max for up or down?
i suspect I understand the limit at 512... Each pixel is 8 bits of material data. Each chunk is 1024 pixels wide (10 bits) Each world is 32 chunks wide (5 bits) That leaves 9 bits in an 32-bit unsigned integer... exactly enough for 512 worlds, from world 0 to world 511. Spell effects require floating point calculations, so they will start to get inaccurate way before that if you don't use a local reference frame, hence the vertical lines.
6:10 I’m about 97% sure Super Mario 64 has “Parallel worlds”, but instead of a giant nearly unbreakable wall there’s just an insanely large void in between each one
this is bound to be a floating point precision bug, which will only be beaten once you can force the engine to run on higher order floating point numbers, or run custom compilers that force its own extra-cpu floating point processing.
I really like the effects as you approach world's end. Reality starts to stretch vertically and things begin to shake and stutter. I like to imagine it's like your reality is becoming more unstable and distorted as you approach it's border, sort of like approaching lightspeed or entering a black hole in real life
Noita exploration never stops! I wonder if vertical wall stays at the same coordinate and if there is a limit to vertical walls. Also I wonder if cauldron and eyes are the same; and if there is any pattern in the vertically distorted particles. And probably little strange question, if particles get "wider" as you go to vertically far lands
That's why i love noita It's a game who knows damn well that it can and WILL be broken, and what is it doing with that? It let you break it, thus making it unbreakable, it knows you will find a way to get somewhere you normally would never be able to do in any other game, and it allow you to go there, even if it would be "normally" impossible
1:19 Was this an intentional reference? 3:14 this is likely due to floating/double variable precision errors. they can hold only so many digits so they sacrifice the amount of decimal numbers for larger numbers when you get too far 3:38 this is probably the same error, but much more strong as the double variable values have less precision than the size of individual pixels, causing them to skip them. If you were to travel vertically instead of horizontally you would see the same effect but the stripes are horizontal instead... 4:44 i would assume the next bigger error would happen at 512 worlds since its a power of 2, which is how the values are stored (binary) 5:32 I'm guessing the next error ends up being so bad it messed up projectile movement completely. I do wonder if you move after shooting the projectile a little but you can still get it to work as it could just be because it moves a little too far from your hitbox. 6:32 this is because your speed isn't high enough to overcome the precision error now. if your player moved more pixels per frame it would be able to go further, which is why teleporting still works. Although even teleporting would have a limit if you go far enough... the next error should appear at 1024 worlds so good luck getting there if you try to!
fun fact well idk about fact but from what i know most games if not all have a type of far lands where the game breaks eg risk of rain 2 theres a video of someone going out of bounds and the character begins to stretch and glitch, a flash game i played i remember getting out of bounds and going so far my model began to stretch and morph. im not sure how it works but its probs something to do with continuously updating environments mabye not sure. The crashing also might be caused by an integer limit.
"I would love to be able to breach this invisible wall" In all likleyhood it's a built-in limit of the game, or rather the game cannot create a world beyond the 512'th because of the fundamental workings of either the engine, or even the perating system. 512 is a power of 2, and if something breaks when things are uncapped, it's usually at a power of 2. 512 would be 2^9, so the world storage is either a 10-bit signed or 9-bit unsignes storage. The particles going weird at 256 would tell me that it's probably a 9-bit signed that either underflows or somehow turns unsigned when a 257'th world is generated. Frankly I do not know why it works exactly like that, but I know that the barrier isn't something that can be overcome unless the engine gets reworked. At that point you are most likley writing to un-allocated addresses and screwing with things that shouldn't be messed with. The constant crashes beyond that point is a sign of that.
Why am I only just noticing the eyes changing on the stone on the left, starting at 7:36? Has it always done this? Maybe I just haven't spent long enough at the start to notice it?
Actually - orbs in further parallel worlds are just copies of the same orbs in the previous parallel worlds (they have the same ID numbers.) So, you literally can only pick up the 11 in the main world, the 11 to the east and the 11 to the west. Then, it's possible to pick up 3 orbs in great treasure chests (1 in each world: center, east, west.) So 36 orbs is the max...unless we discover anything else.
Speaking of parallel worlds, I tried to fly "forever" in X-Wing, back to 1994(?). There was a formation of NPC at action point, and they stay there after mission end. After about of 40 minutes of flying they appeared at opposite side at same distance, and after 40 minutes more I approached them - little ruined models or fly pattern, dont remember already. Sort of parallel for me too.
Hey Fury or anyone else, can you explain or have any idea why the large three-eye pillar at the start starts changing what pupils it has? Did Fury accidentally stumble across some kind of clue to the eye glyphs possibly? it can be easily seen at the end of the video starting @7:36
It’s pretty interesting that the world hopper wand seemed to get rather unreliable at world W490, eventually ceasing to work once he hit world W511. I feel like noita is the only game where it’s really easy to get into, but by the point of mastery, you’re bending space and time to your will.
That was actually just my fault. With the wand I was using, you have to aim slightly down and then take a small step forward for the teleport to hit you. It’s easy to mess up, but that’s the only spot in this video where I showed it. So - just user error. But at world 511, it stopped working because it literally could not teleport me past the “invisible” wall, since ALL horizontal movement stops at that point (I was only able to go slightly further by using rapid fire teleports.)
Interesting that things break at world numbers equal to different powers of 2 (256 = 2^8, 512 = 2^9). These numbers are also 1 bigger that the biggest numbers possible with 8 and 9 bits respectively. My guess is that as you cross these borders certain variables suddenly switch to negative causing all the weird behaviour.
Quite fitting that the hard limit seems to be 512 parallel worlds, since it's a power of 2. If you can go that many worlds to the east AND west, then since each one has six chambers with perks you could get a total of 6,144 perks, plus whatever you got in the main world.
@@Kuba_K Don't forget the double random perk. I forgot what it's called, it's got the two cards. I take it every time just in case I get two that are better than what's on the pedastal. That's at least one more, I don't know if one-off perks can repeat.
6:50 Could you perhaps move further through the "invisible wall" if you had higher movement speed? I assume the "wall" is due to float point imprecision, so maybe if you move far enough in one physics calculation, you could have the "invisible wall" be further to the east. The same exact phenomenon happens in Mario 64 when travelling to far off parallel universes, movement becomes very jerky as well.
To be fair, this is the same save I used for my slow run (everything run) where we did all the secrets in NG, then went through every NG+ loop getting the max amount of orbs in each (so, 680 orbs) then getting 36 orbs in NG+28, killing the boss, then triggering the 1st peaceful world, getting *another* 36 orbs, then going to *another* peaceful world and getting *another* 36 orbs before finally triggering a *final* peaceful world and getting the last 36 orbs there...so 824 orbs total. Then I ripped apart at least 5 or 6 parallel worlds to the east and west before finally deciding to do this...and we're not finished yet. So, the point is that the save is already pretty big and I have explored at least 10 worlds in this final peaceful world.
Hey, are the 3 eyes changing on the big rock at the entrance of mines behave like some clock? I couldn't find anything on it online, only search results are for the eye puzzle.
I wonder how big your save file folder was at that point. After a few NG+ and parallel worlds it grows too big to even be able to sync with the steam server. I had to turn off auto syncing to be able to play at some point.
It's interesting to note that 512 is divisible by 8, implying this "512" limit is likely related to the bits used to mark each world. I also assume you can go 512 each way, making for 1024 worlds. Anyone who works with programming a lot knows these numbers pop up a lot and it is unlikely to be a coincidence.
this is def a float thing if wikis are to be trusted, ng+ worlds are 32768 pixels across, and the 511.5 worlds out (plus half of world 0) would put your "barrier" at 16777216 pixels out this is the threshold past which floats can represent only every other counting number (16777216, 16777218, 16777220, etc.) chances are the reason you couldn’t move is that player movement is slow enough that it rounds down to 0 px/frame instead of up to 2 px/frame (either that or noita always rounds floats towards zero which would require you to move at least 2 px/fr to actually move) your teleport bolts move fast enough to overcome this, hence you still being able to move with that it’s also possible you could still walk around if you had acceleratium/move speed perks as for why the parallel universe wand breaks, i have no idea
I doubt it would ever be possible to go further in vanilla game, because this behavior to me looks like it's just the effect of the way the game is programmed. It most likely stores your position as a default number type - a 32 bit integer. It has a limit at around 2^16 both positive and negative, and you can't go further because there's literally no number to store your position anymore. Depending on the programming language being used, it would either teleport you to the other side of the world if your tried (as in, to the maximum distance in the other direction) or crash instantly, but it looks like noita has something coded in so that whenever the maximum coordinate is reached all numbers bigger than it are rounded to that maximum, explaining why even things like the pointer have a hard stop there
512 World... sound like a code limit. What i want to say by that 512 is a by 8 divide able Number which would make sense for Programcode. As a Limit i mean. I guess behind that 512th World there is just your bare RAM left. Which die Engine cant render to you. Thanks for doing this and show us.
I've fallen down the lava tube before (shifted to smoke) for around 2 hours. It got very crash-y and I had some unloaded chunks here and there. But I'm going to try teleporting up (with the PU teleport wand) tomorrow to see how far up I can go.
Fitting, that the moment you reach 255 and higher, it starts to get janky As if its either some Higher Force of Noita warning you of your perseverance, or simply rewarding patience and curiosity
I love how Noita's wand-building is so obscenely thorough that you can build a set of wands that just teleport you to another parallel universe. This is an insane level of smackery the game just lets you do. You don't need a cheat console to type your X position... you can build your own.
Really hope this game persists and grows in the long run. I think the devs are a bit undwerwhelmed with the response but the discord is still on fire and people like LST, DOS, Nymphs or Fury really churn out content constantly and it does. Not. Get. Boring.
Dojaaan!
Precisely why I think the game just completely wasted this mechanic on a really uninspired shooting game. I feel like if this were a zachtronics-like instead of a rogue-like, with crafted puzzles and challenges where you have to build wands for a specific task, this game would've been an absolute masterpiece. The fun in this game always comes when you finally get that one spell or modifier that completes your wand and I feel like that would be the better direction for the game instead of just throwing it all in the hands of chance, I'd reckon 70% of the people who bought this game don't even get that deep into the main mechanic of the game, horrible waste of potential.
@@kaustik185 Hey, what gives you the impression the devs are underwhelmed? Just curious. Thanks!
@@kaustik185 Underwhelmed devs? The game has 40,000 reviews and is overwhelmingly positive, it got a ton of press coverage and sold extremely well.. It has also received a ton of content updates. What could you possible be referring to?
Me: Wow, I finally made a really cool wand!
Fury: I’m literally 512 parallel universe’s ahead of you!
Goat comment
Dang it you did the joke before me.
But I will do it eny way.
I would have loved to see the gold room in these parallel wordls, because they tend to get more and more distorted with every parallel world, imagine what a W512 gold room would look like
I ended up trying to find the gold room earlier on in this process (maybe in the 100th parallel world? I don't remember exactly) but it seems like it wasn't even there. I was actually in a post-game world, having finished NG+28, so it seems the gold room was nonexistent. However, I'll soon be uploading the VODs of this entire process in 2 parts over on my other channel. It wasn't actually *too* long - maybe 3 hours total?
I also am not quite finished with this run/save yet, so I'll make sure to look for the gold room again (the one down at the bottom of the world) before I end the run and...possibly go 512+ worlds in the opposite direction as well. I might also have to go up and down, since people in the comments are asking about those. Oof.
What if the secrets or unsolved mysteries are different when you go really far? Just a thought, though.
@@FuryForged probably diagonally as well?
@@FuryForged did you make this wand that teleports you to a parallel worlds without cheats? Just by collecting all the spells needed throughout 28 runs?
@@different_stuff Considering the whole many month long run is uploaded on his second channel, yes he did it legitimately.
They need to put an easter egg in the 511th world now, as its the last stable one. It would be interesting to see an npc or just some text talking about parallel world travel and telling you not to continue.
That would require Nolla to update the game. And they won't :')
As the 33 orb runs started in the community, i Hope nolla gives the attention to this "Quest" as well
would honestly be the coolest easter egg in a game ever, so utterly fitting
Dude it becomes unstable after the third world.
I think the only reason he was able to make it this far is because he avoided loading a lot of stuff by just teleporting there.
Most runs will crash after you yoink perks from about 4 PUs away in either direction.
or you face the gods themselves and you get noita'd so hard the game uninstalls
It makes sense that there would be soft and hard limits at 256 and 512, since those are powers of two.
Also funny cameos with the acid rain at 2:30 and the slime rain at 7:55
I find it quite surprising actually that the world size has anything to do with it. I'd have guessed the limit being something like 2^n pixels or 2^n chunks, not 2^n worlds
@@peabrainiac6370 Well, consider that he's playing NG+, which makes the horizontal size of each world also a power of 2, 2^6 to be precise. So it would appear that the world limit is 2^15 chunks out from the origin.
@@TheEnmineer I ran the numbers and I think I figured out what’s going on. Since the ng+ worlds are 64 chunks across and each chunk is 512 pixels, the limit of 256 worlds means that we are starting to see really strange behavior at an x coordinate of 8388608, which happens to be 2^23. Single precision floating point values use 4 bytes, with 1 bit for the sign, 8 bits for the exponent, and 23 bits for the significant value. Assuming that the wall isn’t intentionally coded in, that would mean that player position coordinates are probably stored as single precision floating point numbers, and the reason we stop being able to move correctly in the x direction is that the game stops being able to properly detect position changes any smaller than 10 pixels. So, only something that can move 5 or more pixels in a single machine operation can actually move, since these would be rounded to the closest value. The reason we would see strange things happening in earlier words is similar, as the game loses the ability to detect movements of less than 0.1. Based on the math, I think you’re right, and that we should expect to see the same error occur on non-ng+ at just 234 worlds.
@@chrisjackson5072 I didnt understand a single sentence of what you typed, but yes I fully agree.
@@rustarus6117 basically, when you try to increase a really big number, if the number is big enough, the computer will round it back to the starting value.
Imagine not finding circle of vigour in any and every one of these 1024 parallel worlds, that must be hilarious
Games that give you mechanics and let you go to town with them even if they get ridiculous is always nice. It's like a scale that's directly related to how interesting and fun a game is. Gungeon has pre-baked synergies with set effects, no real breaking to be had. Binding of Isaac has lots of weird effects, there's plenty that let you be immortal and lag the game to hell and back and break things in all manner of ways. Then Noita lets you build a boomerang railgun where the projectile teleports what it hits into a new parallel world because why the hell not?
Generally if a game gives you tools and lets you abuse them to the point the game crashes, that game has great potential to be insanely replayable. My gungeon replays might just give me a different gun synergy where I do more damage. My Noita replays might give a fungal shift that changes how the entire game is played in a way I've never seen before.
Not necessarily. While Isaac and Noita have insane amounts of replay value, I find Gungeon the most fun to play of the games mentioned because of how enjoyable the moment to moment gameplay is. I have spent far more time in Isaac, but I liked Gungeon more for the highly polished bullet hell gunplay.
just wanted to say that I love that you related this amazing game with those two amazing games and their 'game breaks'
I do understand and agree with what you mean with gungeon being a set in stone kinda thing since you can't really break it. Isaac also seems kinda fragile in where it straight up crashes if you push it too far. it also doesn't even have that many settings to help the game push further sadly.
I have yet to play Noita and I can't wait to actually break the game further than I had done so with Isaac (doing blank card or diplopia wild card shenanigans) and Gungeon (haven't played in a while but most I can remember I've done was probably duct tape stuff with inf ammo guns or just clone)
@@cosmologicl I have broken gungeon, but only because of mods. Some interaction between 4 key related items in 1 run got me firing 100 (Base) damage keys with every shot of every gun that would spawn like 10 keys when they hit an enemy, and my damage went up with every key I had when I had thousands. Another run had chests room have 4-6 chests each and like 3 mimics in every room, utterly drowning me in items and I had so many bullet modifiers that the game would nearly freeze with 1 clip of continuous fire
~1 Week Later~
Noita update -> +[Cough] more parallel worlds added.
New player: This EDR must lead to an invisible wall...
Experienced player: There are no invisible walls in Noita.
Wizard: So ive made a wand that can teleport through parallel universes and...
It's that bell curve meme
2iq brainless: there must be an invisible wall inside the EDR!
Average experienced Noita: there are no invisible walls in Noita!
FuryForged, the god atop them all: well you see...
I had some fun parallel world instability recently on a very long run I did. Turns out if your computer isn't quite good enough, you can get stuck in a fun cycle when teleporting into an area that contains objects with physics where the game continues trying to generate those objects until you either leave the area and come back, or crash. Basically turned every square inch of hanging vines into a rapidly growing mass of vegetation that does not enjoy being rendered.
Pretty sure something similar happened to me with ghost worms. Very disturbing
It seems that things started getting extremely weird at x coordinates of 2^23. This makes sense, because this sort of behavior wouldn’t be unexpected if you are trying to increment a floating point number close to its precision limit. 2^23 is the precision limit for single precision floating point numbers, and it makes sense to use single precision instead of double precision to save computing time. That still doesn’t explain the crash at world 512 though. I can’t think of any reason for that to occur.
They must have reserved 9 bits of memory for your parallel world ID. That runs out at 512.
Every world is 64 256pixel sizee chunks. In 512 worlds, there are 2^23 pixels.
@@marksilverman They could have had a buffer variable for the total number of worlds and chose 1024 based on old habits.
@@marksilverman A very minor correction. They reserved 8 bits (or 1 byte) for World ID.
1 byte can count up to 511. Thus the run out at 512.
@@DaxCyro
I thought an unsigned byte only goes up to 255.
This is super interesting! Thanks for sharing, I had a feeling there might be a more hard limit somewhere less then 2^10 worlds out due to limits similar to minecraft's farlands
@Sabizos it's mot multiplying, it's raising to a power. Basically, we have 1024 worlds to work with
@Sabizos ^ and * are different mathematically, ^ represents a power/exponent whereas * is multiplication. 2*10 would be 2+2+2+2.... so on. 2^10 would be 2*2*2*2... so on.
"To answer that, we need to talk about PARALLEL UNIVERSES"
these invisible walls i suspect are caused by the decreasing precision of floating point values. every time the number doubles we lose a bit more precision. when the game moves you it then has to round (truncate) your position, and once your movement speed is smaller than the accuracy the game has, it just rounds you back to where you were. if you increase your movement speed enough you should be able to move "normally" again until world 1024, given you solve the crashing issue.
the crashing may be how noita stores position and can not be bypased without changing the code eg pos > int or float or double(probably not the float and double)
Part of me is saddened that I’ve spoiled myself on loads of stuff, but at the same time I enjoy these videos so much and I’d probably never learn most of this anyway
Also that travel wand is INCREDIBLE. Love this game and it’s mechanics so much. Man I need to play it more
I normally would also not spoil secrets for games, but I'm glad I did for this one bc there's no way id EVER see this stuff myself with how casual I play in comparison 😂
ah, good old floating point numbers.
the larger the interger part the smaller the fractional part. basically meaning: every power of 2 you move away from 0, they loose half of their precision.
which, if you're far away from 0 causes jerky movement of the camera/player/particles, stretched effects, and similar phenomenon.
they all could easily be solved by replacing the floats with fixed point numbers, at the expensive of some extra memory and CPU time.
Mainly an issue when you exhaust all significand bits. First running out of bits for imprecise fractions, then ultimately crossing 1 meaning there can never be an odd number anymore. If you somehow get past that then you lose 2, 4, 8 and so on as you slide those 23 bits further away from 0.
"extra memory and CPU time" that might make things unfeasible quickly with so much going on.
not exactly gaming related, but we moved our in-house renderer to 512-bit precision last year because we kept bumping into precision issues...but it's nothing you would do on consumer hardware.
Shield breaks at 256 and game breaks at 512 . Looks very much as powers of two by me, that lines up. Floating point (most likely) exponent increments and calculations accuracy becomes fatally low, causing a fatal error
This is a normal world, this is a parallel world, and this is an ascended parallel world or you can just call it a parallel world 2, and this is to go even further beyond
i just noticed that but the eyes on the starting pillar at 7:55 are switching on and off, i wonder if it's just a glitch or if it's normal or of it's some kind of secret
Hey, that's some mystery
It's probably a clue to the ARG Fury has been setting up, you can find more in the lore discussion channel on the official noita discord
@@automatedminer7158 woa that's cool, i wasn't expecting something like this
You started seeing issues at world 256 then a hard limit at world 512.
Both of those are integer limits, 8-bit and 9-bit respectively or more likely signed 9-bit and signed 10-bit.
It'd be interesting to see what madness might happen if you can get past the hard limit.
Those are important numbers for integers, but they're also important for floating point numbers, which I think is what we're seeing here. Floating point numbers get less and less precise as one gets further and further from the origin. For each factor of two further from the origin you get, you lose one binary digit of accuracy. Eventually the precision gets low enough that you can't even represent every integer, meaning things can only occupy every other pixel position, making them look interleaved. Double the distance again, and only positions that are a multiple of 4 can be represented, and so on. This also becomes a problem for movement eventually, as when the game tries to update your position using your speed, it ends up at a new location that just ends up rounding down to the same position you started at, leaving you stuck.
512, a significant number. It's 2 to the power of 9. Likely the position calculation has a 10 bit number used to note the parallel world that you are in. 9 bits for the world and 1 for the direction.
This is surprising to me because I always remember hearing that one shouldn't go too far into parallel worlds because it quickly becomes unstable and can crash your game. If I recall it was something around only going out up to 4 or 6 in each direction before it because too unable to explore any more. This new knowledge of the actual limits one can travel really open the game up more for me! So many new wands, spells, perks, and reroll machines to work with!
I think the "not go too far" thing was fixed at some point
u may have tried it already, but ill warn u: it actually DOES get unstable past like 3 worlds on each side
the thing is, u CAN go there, but uh it doesnt mean its a 100% good idea
i think it gets unstable if you actually begin to explore the worlds, but because he's just teleporting in place it remains relatively stable.
Discovered something interesting in regards to this.... I fell for an ungodly amount of time, and made it to about 2 million (pixles? units?) under the world, at which point the game completely broke and ultimately crashed. This being said, I did the math and as it turns out, I had "wrapped" worlds about 8 times just about before crashing. Now this is odd to me given that 512 is the magic number left to right, but slightly under 8 is the max for up or down?
It's also not my pc, as I have no issues going to the 512 limit left or right lol
1:19
"But first we need to talk about parallel universes"
I just got Watch For Rolling Rocks flashbacks
i suspect I understand the limit at 512...
Each pixel is 8 bits of material data.
Each chunk is 1024 pixels wide (10 bits)
Each world is 32 chunks wide (5 bits)
That leaves 9 bits in an 32-bit unsigned integer... exactly enough for 512 worlds, from world 0 to world 511.
Spell effects require floating point calculations, so they will start to get inaccurate way before that if you don't use a local reference frame, hence the vertical lines.
6:10
I’m about 97% sure Super Mario 64 has “Parallel worlds”, but instead of a giant nearly unbreakable wall there’s just an insanely large void in between each one
Super Mario 64 *does* have parallel worlds. I was being sarcastic and facetious ;D
this is bound to be a floating point precision bug, which will only be beaten once you can force the engine to run on higher order floating point numbers, or run custom compilers that force its own extra-cpu floating point processing.
Gotta love Noita, even the way the world breaks down has style! Great vid Fury!
The teleport wand even SOUNDS like a teleporter that's nuts
I really like the effects as you approach world's end. Reality starts to stretch vertically and things begin to shake and stutter. I like to imagine it's like your reality is becoming more unstable and distorted as you approach it's border, sort of like approaching lightspeed or entering a black hole in real life
Noita exploration never stops! I wonder if vertical wall stays at the same coordinate and if there is a limit to vertical walls.
Also I wonder if cauldron and eyes are the same; and if there is any pattern in the vertically distorted particles.
And probably little strange question, if particles get "wider" as you go to vertically far lands
ok now this is a video I gotta see
That's why i love noita
It's a game who knows damn well that it can and WILL be broken, and what is it doing with that?
It let you break it, thus making it unbreakable, it knows you will find a way to get somewhere you normally would never be able to do in any other game, and it allow you to go there, even if it would be "normally" impossible
1:19 Was this an intentional reference?
3:14 this is likely due to floating/double variable precision errors. they can hold only so many digits so they sacrifice the amount of decimal numbers for larger numbers when you get too far
3:38 this is probably the same error, but much more strong as the double variable values have less precision than the size of individual pixels, causing them to skip them. If you were to travel vertically instead of horizontally you would see the same effect but the stripes are horizontal instead...
4:44 i would assume the next bigger error would happen at 512 worlds since its a power of 2, which is how the values are stored (binary)
5:32 I'm guessing the next error ends up being so bad it messed up projectile movement completely. I do wonder if you move after shooting the projectile a little but you can still get it to work as it could just be because it moves a little too far from your hitbox.
6:32 this is because your speed isn't high enough to overcome the precision error now. if your player moved more pixels per frame it would be able to go further, which is why teleporting still works. Although even teleporting would have a limit if you go far enough...
the next error should appear at 1024 worlds so good luck getting there if you try to!
I am already 512 parallel universes ahead of you. Go git gud son.
fun fact well idk about fact but from what i know most games if not all have a type of far lands where the game breaks eg risk of rain 2 theres a video of someone going out of bounds and the character begins to stretch and glitch, a flash game i played i remember getting out of bounds and going so far my model began to stretch and morph. im not sure how it works but its probs something to do with continuously updating environments mabye not sure. The crashing also might be caused by an integer limit.
did you checked on the eyes on world 512E ???? just in case the eyes are changed by some reason with the particles breaking
Great content for history of gaming!
Fury begins talking about breaking worlds near the end:
World: *_Rains Worm Blood_*
"I would love to be able to breach this invisible wall"
In all likleyhood it's a built-in limit of the game, or rather the game cannot create a world beyond the 512'th because of the fundamental workings of either the engine, or even the perating system. 512 is a power of 2, and if something breaks when things are uncapped, it's usually at a power of 2. 512 would be 2^9, so the world storage is either a 10-bit signed or 9-bit unsignes storage. The particles going weird at 256 would tell me that it's probably a 9-bit signed that either underflows or somehow turns unsigned when a 257'th world is generated. Frankly I do not know why it works exactly like that, but I know that the barrier isn't something that can be overcome unless the engine gets reworked. At that point you are most likley writing to un-allocated addresses and screwing with things that shouldn't be messed with. The constant crashes beyond that point is a sign of that.
Invisible Boundaries?! What The Heck!
Why am I only just noticing the eyes changing on the stone on the left, starting at 7:36? Has it always done this? Maybe I just haven't spent long enough at the start to notice it?
@@sinnison23 woah what the heck ive never noticed that either
So... if you were able to collect every orb in BOTH directions without crashing or just.. issues in general, then that's a lot of orbs. Right?
Actually - orbs in further parallel worlds are just copies of the same orbs in the previous parallel worlds (they have the same ID numbers.) So, you literally can only pick up the 11 in the main world, the 11 to the east and the 11 to the west. Then, it's possible to pick up 3 orbs in great treasure chests (1 in each world: center, east, west.) So 36 orbs is the max...unless we discover anything else.
That's upsetting. Oh well, I can only imagine 500 orbs for now.
@@FuryForged that's upsetting I thought I could just collect forever
I can't wait for you to show off uses for half A-presses!
I was thinking about how far can it truly go!!
that little jump cut to your prey leave% "chefs kiss"
Don’t go further or you’ll find The Fourth Work
Lovely how, if the same is True for West, that means that Noita has a limit of 2^10 worlds +1 for world 0.
Speaking of parallel worlds, I tried to fly "forever" in X-Wing, back to 1994(?). There was a formation of NPC at action point, and they stay there after mission end.
After about of 40 minutes of flying they appeared at opposite side at same distance, and after 40 minutes more I approached them - little ruined models or fly pattern, dont remember already. Sort of parallel for me too.
The casual acid/slime rain B-roll was a nice touch
I think the world will end by some noita player building wand so powerful that it destroy whole reallife universe
Missed opportunity to play the Mario 64 menu music when saying “first we need to talk about parallel universe travel wands”
Hey Fury or anyone else, can you explain or have any idea why the large three-eye pillar at the start starts changing what pupils it has? Did Fury accidentally stumble across some kind of clue to the eye glyphs possibly? it can be easily seen at the end of the video starting @7:36
1:20 nod to "To answer that, we need to talk about parallel universes."
Noita's wand crafting really will let you do anything.
vertical far lands when? 👀
OK
It’s pretty interesting that the world hopper wand seemed to get rather unreliable at world W490, eventually ceasing to work once he hit world W511. I feel like noita is the only game where it’s really easy to get into, but by the point of mastery, you’re bending space and time to your will.
That was actually just my fault. With the wand I was using, you have to aim slightly down and then take a small step forward for the teleport to hit you. It’s easy to mess up, but that’s the only spot in this video where I showed it. So - just user error.
But at world 511, it stopped working because it literally could not teleport me past the “invisible” wall, since ALL horizontal movement stops at that point (I was only able to go slightly further by using rapid fire teleports.)
7:39 uhh did you see the eye on the left tablet change position????
such an awesome video
gr8 title two
Very interesting watch I enjoyed it very much I can also relate to wanting to break video game boundarys
Never realised the eyes change on the starting pillar. Neat!
Interesting that things break at world numbers equal to different powers of 2 (256 = 2^8, 512 = 2^9). These numbers are also 1 bigger that the biggest numbers possible with 8 and 9 bits respectively. My guess is that as you cross these borders certain variables suddenly switch to negative causing all the weird behaviour.
Quite fitting that the hard limit seems to be 512 parallel worlds, since it's a power of 2. If you can go that many worlds to the east AND west, then since each one has six chambers with perks you could get a total of 6,144 perks, plus whatever you got in the main world.
If you get lucky with perk lottery you can have even more
@@Kuba_K also slap on some extra perk slots and you can have much more perks. Like, 8 per Holy Mountain or even more
@@Kuba_K Don't forget the double random perk. I forgot what it's called, it's got the two cards. I take it every time just in case I get two that are better than what's on the pedastal. That's at least one more, I don't know if one-off perks can repeat.
@@chaotickreg7024 a dangerous game to play
As a computer person I don’t find it surprising things go wrong at 256 and 511. 255 is one bye and 510 is two bytes
That one that you used is insane, if Noita wasn't noita I don't think things like this would be possible
6:50 Could you perhaps move further through the "invisible wall" if you had higher movement speed? I assume the "wall" is due to float point imprecision, so maybe if you move far enough in one physics calculation, you could have the "invisible wall" be further to the east. The same exact phenomenon happens in Mario 64 when travelling to far off parallel universes, movement becomes very jerky as well.
i wonder how much less you would have been able to travel if you explored the levels
To be fair, this is the same save I used for my slow run (everything run) where we did all the secrets in NG, then went through every NG+ loop getting the max amount of orbs in each (so, 680 orbs) then getting 36 orbs in NG+28, killing the boss, then triggering the 1st peaceful world, getting *another* 36 orbs, then going to *another* peaceful world and getting *another* 36 orbs before finally triggering a *final* peaceful world and getting the last 36 orbs there...so 824 orbs total. Then I ripped apart at least 5 or 6 parallel worlds to the east and west before finally deciding to do this...and we're not finished yet.
So, the point is that the save is already pretty big and I have explored at least 10 worlds in this final peaceful world.
@@FuryForged Jeez, how big is the save file on that?
@@lotarion the man is counting on petabytes right now... also almost as big as your mom
love the part where fury kidnaps the shadow pit boss to the parallel world
"Ok so we fire a projectile so far that it goes into a parallel world and then..."
Definitely some cool stuff there
Hey, are the 3 eyes changing on the big rock at the entrance of mines behave like some clock? I couldn't find anything on it online, only search results are for the eye puzzle.
I wonder how big your save file folder was at that point. After a few NG+ and parallel worlds it grows too big to even be able to sync with the steam server. I had to turn off auto syncing to be able to play at some point.
makes scene 512 is 2^9 and for both ways parallel world count would be 2^10
"But first, we need to talk about Parallel Universes." Oh god, here we go again, does it involve half A presses?
It's interesting to note that 512 is divisible by 8, implying this "512" limit is likely related to the bits used to mark each world. I also assume you can go 512 each way, making for 1024 worlds. Anyone who works with programming a lot knows these numbers pop up a lot and it is unlikely to be a coincidence.
1025; with the '0'th center world and 512 on either side.
this is def a float thing
if wikis are to be trusted, ng+ worlds are 32768 pixels across, and the 511.5 worlds out (plus half of world 0) would put your "barrier" at 16777216 pixels out
this is the threshold past which floats can represent only every other counting number (16777216, 16777218, 16777220, etc.)
chances are the reason you couldn’t move is that player movement is slow enough that it rounds down to 0 px/frame instead of up to 2 px/frame (either that or noita always rounds floats towards zero which would require you to move at least 2 px/fr to actually move)
your teleport bolts move fast enough to overcome this, hence you still being able to move with that
it’s also possible you could still walk around if you had acceleratium/move speed perks
as for why the parallel universe wand breaks, i have no idea
I got a Minecraft ad on this lol
7:08 this wand is what i trying to do now into 5PW in game. so HOW? looks amazing.
Everyone really do be at the peak of dunning kruger talking about powers of 2 here
"Are there lands where things s tart to behave very strangely?"
... I wouldn't call them normal even at the world 0
"But first we need to talk about parallel universe travel wands"' I see what you did there :)
they gotta put the "heed my warning" tablet at the invisible wall
thank you floats for breaking all our favourite games yet again
"But first we need to talk about parallel universe travel wands"
I see what you did there)
I doubt it would ever be possible to go further in vanilla game, because this behavior to me looks like it's just the effect of the way the game is programmed. It most likely stores your position as a default number type - a 32 bit integer. It has a limit at around 2^16 both positive and negative, and you can't go further because there's literally no number to store your position anymore. Depending on the programming language being used, it would either teleport you to the other side of the world if your tried (as in, to the maximum distance in the other direction) or crash instantly, but it looks like noita has something coded in so that whenever the maximum coordinate is reached all numbers bigger than it are rounded to that maximum, explaining why even things like the pointer have a hard stop there
Aren't floating point rounding errors great?
Truly. They have created the greatest invisible wall.
breaking the limits of (sane) floating point precision
512 World... sound like a code limit. What i want to say by that 512 is a by 8 divide able Number which would make sense for Programcode. As a Limit i mean. I guess behind that 512th World there is just your bare RAM left. Which die Engine cant render to you. Thanks for doing this and show us.
Fury at it again, doing god's work. Thank you
floating point errors are a hell of a drug!
the math that makes up the game, specifically positional values just starts breaking down it will only get worse the farther you manage to force it
I didn't even know a wand like this was possible in the base game. That's insane.
Thank you for your documenting! I'm curious how far you went down? And if you tried without steam. Just out of curiosity if it might run better.
I've fallen down the lava tube before (shifted to smoke) for around 2 hours. It got very crash-y and I had some unloaded chunks here and there. But I'm going to try teleporting up (with the PU teleport wand) tomorrow to see how far up I can go.
The eyes mason what do they mean!!!
1024 parallel universes... I wonder if any of the eyes are different in any of those worlds.
impressive how Noita can handle extrem float number
Dude... I thought that noita was just a roguelike, nobody told me that it would go that far...
"But first, we have to talk about parallel universes"
Fitting, that the moment you reach 255 and higher, it starts to get janky
As if its either some Higher Force of Noita warning you of your perseverance, or simply rewarding patience and curiosity
anyone know what the song at 3:53 is, when he's chilling in the portal room?