Multiboard: What Is Stack 3D Printing
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- A quick little video going over the basics of stacked 3D printing for the Multiboard.
Stack Print Test File: than.gs/m/977033
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In the early days of the pandemic, I designed a headband for a face shield that used a clear transparency film sheet as the shield. The headband featured geometry that allowed you to stack the headbands on top one another and easily separate. Headbands featured symmetrical geometry top and bottom that tapered to 0.4mm so in between headbands was only one layer to break. This method looks better as it leverages the aspects of the raft from the slicer to create the separation "cut".
Very, very interesting and informative video, thank you for your time. I'll have to try a couple small projects to see if they turn out on my printer. Thank you again, and keep the excellent informative videos.
just discovered your channel, and it seems like youre doing a lot of novel/interesting stuff. subscribed and waiting for more, keep it up!
Yoooo!!!! Stack printing is next level. That's something new I've seen.
It is definitely not new but it not widely used. Some people use supports between the parts. I think that is required when you print a lot of small parts stacked
Or you could put a 2 layer PETG interface between each layer of PLA grids and have near perfect parts both sides.
That is a good shout... need to give that a try
wow we need a special PETG filament made specifically for use in supports
@@AckzaTVPLA with PET-G as the interface in between. Nothing special. PLA and PET-G don't stick well to each other
Or just alternate each model, one in PLA, one in Petg etc
If you're using a Single Extruder Multi-Material setup, I like using CA Filament Matte PETG for this, as those filaments actually print better at lower temps compared to regular PETG. This way you can save time during changes not waiting as long for nozzle temperature changes
Take a solid PLA model and use change at layer height to add 2 layers of PETG to split the PLA into parts.
There's also the technique of forcing the layers to delaminate between parts by reducing print temperature without the need for a gap.
great idea actually 👍👍👍
this is very useful - you can do this without AMS, so no interface layer needed - only downside besides your mentioned downsides is, that you need a planar top surface to print on - does not work with models that have multiple top surfaces, else it would take ages
a possible solution could be to introduce an interface layer in the model: 0,1 mm height and 0,48 mm wide with about 2 mm spacing, just loops like the support interface would do and then print ontop of that with 0,1 mm gap - this way to bottom surface looks way nicer
Oh wow stacking makes this a much faster project to get started. Thank you so much for the explainer!
I'm proud to be a member to support your research and development 🤘
I was about to finally get me a print mill (Cr-30 for these)
thank you
“I bought the plate, I’m gonna use the whole damn plate”
If you print them in PLA and have either an AMS or the patience to do multiple filament swaps at specific layer heights, you can simply print a single separation layer of PETG in between them.
PLA and PETG don't bond and you can easily pull them apart.
Without an AMS, there's no real sense in going fillament swap. Its easier to just take the print from bed and goin over it again
No not really, depending on your setup you can perform a filament swap quicker than your printer needs to heat up nozzle and bed again. Also the first layer is always slower and if you print a big tile that can take a long time
@@reinaldoalencar8432
awesome!
If you dont care about color or just one side needs to look ok and can be close to printer when new stack layer starts printing then painting last layer of stack with for example marker would greatly reduce layer adhesion between layers. Usefull for supports too.
This is great info, but I feel like a huge part of this problem you solved is how you got the clones to stack on each other and able to print without a support
I had good luck using a paint stir stick to hold and wedge the layers apart after getting them started with a long screw.
I'm using PLA+ and on my first attempt I broke a little bit of infill off. Tried again and this time I scored the seam with an x-acto blade and was able to get them to split without braking as much off.
Will there be more sizes available for stacked prints? I’m specifically looking for 12x12. Maybe a part generator for stacked prints or something?
Ah. I was wondering when someone would do this, and with what type of project.
I honestly expected this to be more of a thing with dual extruder machines, specifically because of the sharp single layer left behind, but this design even works with that.
I've seen this a bit with resin printers, but nice to finally see others experimenting on this with FDM as well
Not to diminish the feat, but this technique has been around FDM for a while. It's just uncommon for most models to need to be mass manufactured like this. I remember at the start of 2020 when everyone was printing face mask shields this was one of the methods used to get things printed as fast as possible.
With a dual extruder or an AMS setup you could just stick a layer of PETG in between
Any suggestions if prints don't separate even with your screw lever trick? I guess my tolerances are too tight. How to fix so stack printing works?
Theyre should be a feature in the slicer to nest parts, just like in resin printing
What software/workflow do folks use to create the stack?
I am trying to create a stack of 2 instead of 4. One of the objects gets the texture PEI surface, the other does not...which gets used in a different setup.
Which filament is best to use for the multiboard? Do you always print it in PETG or is PLA decent enough?
What is Slicer program is recommended to print with a RoboBeast R3
If I were to print this stack, but with a layer or two of PET-G between the PLA prints, would I still want to iron the top surface before the layer of PET-G goes on top of it?
Hello, I prepared my file to print the plates after testing but there are 65 hours of printing time, does that seem normal to you? I am on prusa mk4 with prusa slicer and PLA in 0.20 mm speed.
if you have an AMS, just put one layer of PETG between them, and no gap.
I'd like to try this but I'm not quite certain how I'd go about adding the layer? I have my AMS and bought some PETG but I wasn't sure if it's a case of actually adding a physical layer to the model file itself or just enabling supports and somehow telling it to utilize the PETG for that specific purpose. Thoughts?
I can't remove it, do you have any profile for the P1S?
for anyone using bambu lab slicer just merge the parts together first then adjust the hight
I was tempted to adopted this system, then I hit the "Supporters Only" parts paywall.. As much as I would love to support you, I would much rather adopt fully open systems that aren't monetized. I respect the hustle, but not the DRM approach.
Considering the amount of time he's put into such a great system, I had no problem tossing him a latte every month. Well worth it. I think the guy deserves the pay.
Is Multiboard the modelling program? Or the project that all this printing is related to? Main question is what 3d modelling program is used here? Please and thank you.
If your stack can't separate, check the initial layer height and make sure it's 0.2mm as well. That was my main issue
Man I just can’t get this to work on a P1S. The front edge seems to fail to stick to the bed.
I feel like I totally missed the part where you explain how to get the printer to print the models on top of each other.
It's the STL itself that includes the stacked shapes with a small gap between them.
❤ I printed the 6x6 starter stack on the A1mini in Polylite Pro, default settings and it worked incredibly well.
At first I was worried because more than a few layers looked curled on a corner (not the base layer with brim).The stack however peeled apart like a dream, every plate was perfectly printed, I couldn’t even tell which layers curled after separation when laying them flat on a granite countertop… extremely impressive. ❤ so happy with this system 🙏 Thank You.
I love here it MakerBees!
Be sure to share your build in the discord I would love to see it grow =)
@@Keep-Making I see now it is free ☺️, I just hope you take my donation towards Blender CAD because Multiboard is awesome and practical but CAD in Blender getting fully developed is a literal game changer ❤️.
I will definitely post the make as I go on Discord but it is definitely fighting the que for last minute gifts on the printers 😁.
@@MakerBees333Did you’ve checked out Plasticity for a Blender CAD feeling?
@@lazyman1011 I did checkout Plasticity when they launched, was super excited, but because of so many time crunches I couldn’t dedicate enough time to get the controls moving.
Blender has been become my Brains default keyboard shortcut 😊, and because of the other powerful add-on’s my favorite modeling software despite the destructive nature.
@@MakerBees333 If you’re able to use it then do it. I’ll start my plasticity journey this month.
What if I'd like to have 0.1 mm gap while printing everything else with 0.2 mm layers?
Have never seen this before, you talked about correct print settings, would you mind talking about what print settings you refer to? it sounds like there might be certain parameters effecting this kind of printing.
What filament are you using? the greyish white with black dots in it.
any filament with marble finish will do. ;)
How do you stack? This shows how to pull them apart. When I try to move my print up on z it snaps back to the plate.
You can either stack them directly on your STL file, or if you want to clone/move parts in your slicer, you need to select all your cloned objects, assemble them into parts. Then selecting with Alt+click, you can select a part and move it individually, even in the Z dimension.
Newbie question: Which slicer are you using?
I can't find the same settings in Cura. They are probably there, but I can't map the names to Cura's.
its most likely
either orca slicer or bambu slicer, they both look pretty much identical.
Cura has ironing hidden under the Top/Bottom section of the printer profile settings. There is a small place to enable ironing inbetween "extra skin wall count" setting and "Skin overlap percentage". Once you enable it, more ironing settings appear.
Hope this helps!!
I am using Cura 5.6.0 as of posting this comment.
Really appreciate the video. However, I can't get the proper settings (don't know what they are) in Cura Slicer to allow the parts to seaparate! Just checking the 'Ironing' box does not do the trick. Anyone know the settings or other help would be appreciated!
Check our this video from 3D Printing Nerd which talks about stacking 3D prints in Cura Slicer ua-cam.com/video/ediRzElyc-0/v-deo.html
Edit.
I didn't hear him speaking about the Ironing setting at all, so it might not be needed. I don't use Cura Splicer, so I can not speak from experience
I wonder if you can make multi board print faster/stronger by printing with a wider extrusion width. Lost in tech did a series of videos exploring printing wide with a .4 nozzle.
That definitely depends on the material and speed. For example too fast with PETG will delaminate no matter the width of the line or layer. Some PLA pro will break on layer lines if too thick.
I think “Slow” or regular speed and steady win the race here as I plan to utilize this system for a long time. The wife even approved and she didn’t of the Hexwall, that is quite high praise of how ascetically pleasing it is in person 👍.
Hmmm would be intreatstin to see... My only concern is that it is shifts the tolorenses it might screw up the connecitons with other parts but the only thing to do is test test test.
Great method for specific situations, but I think custom supports would work better than just stacking them, because you would multiply all the problems with every stack considering the empty 0.2 gap accumulating. By the time you get to layer 5 you have 1mm of gap. Great visual either way 👍
I don't think that would be the case. The layer after the gap will sag just enough to make it stick but not squeeze, so the z dimension would be the same no matter how many stacks you make.
@@ZeeengMicro thats hoping for a lucky print rather than setting yourself up for success. It would have to be observed at every layer as if its the first layer to make sure it works properly. I wouldn’t leave something like that on overnight unless it got consistently lucky over multiple print tests first 🤷♂️
@@JLake3D I mean it's basically the same as gap in support, 0.2 or 0.15 is very common setting to use for support.
This technique is also used in many print-in-place models where the part of the model starts of floating or with gap and needs to be separated later on.
@@ZeeengMicro i agree with your point on this one, but when you stack the gap it creates room for failure as i mentioned in the first comment. If it wasn’t the case people would be using this method all the time instead of printing just one layer of an object.
That's not how it works at all.
Can we get a new version of this with the latest bambu labs slicer, the top layer stuff isn't correct any more and it was a struggle to get them apart :( making me nervous to print a whole stack.
Could you elaborate on this as I have a bambu printer to and with the latest update nothing has changed that I'm aware of to change my approach to this
@@Keep-Making my bambu slicer doesn't have the same ironing as yours and honestly I'd love a tutorial on dialing in a P1S as the stacking tests that I've printed are not coming apart without some kind of hacking it apart. I have a 9x9 stack on the bed now, so that's not going to be done till tomorrow and I'm hoping it's not going to be a waste of filament.
Would you show how to stack objects in bambu lab ?
Take an object, clone it X number of times, center each item then select all and assemble them. Then raise the Z height of the parts keeping a 0.2mm gap in-between each object. Make sure to turn off Detect Overhang Walls.
Tried the test in PETG and I couldn’t separate them. Printed on a Bambu x1 Carbon with the recommended settings from the article on your site. I managed to split them apart but broke the bottom one because of the amount of force needed.
Did you ever get this to work? I'm in the same boat as you with P1S... seems like there are a lot of suggestions in here but none quite give me an A-Z idea of how to accomplish this with just PETG.
@@bcboncs no I gave up on it
Looking for help with my P1S. These tests are always fused. I usually don't have issues with tolerances, but this is getting to me. Any help?
Detect Overhang Walls, turn it off as it adds a layer in-between 2 stacked items which could fuse them. Each stacked item should have a 0.2mm gap between them. So to make a 3x stack of core wall plates for instance, put 1 piece on a plate, clone it 2x times, center each item, select all 3 and assemble. Raise the Z height of part 2 to 6.8mm, then raise the Z height of part 3 to 13.2mm. Item 1 is 6.4mm tall, top surface gets ironed, then second item gets printed at 6.8mm, gets ironed, and so on, and so on.
@@mesajoejoe Thanks for the ideas. I actually was able to separate them but needed a razor to do so. They actually came apart a lot easier on the full sheets, than the test.
I see the setting in Cura for Ironing, but the only choices I have are "Enable Ironing", and "Iron Only Highest Layer". It doesn't seem to work for the 'first' top surface. Has anyone else had success doing this using Cura?
You could check this out from 3D Printing Nerd ua-cam.com/video/ediRzElyc-0/v-deo.html.
He does speak about stacking, but he speak about Ironing, so Im not sure if it's needed for stacking prints in Cura
Found also this video that talks about Ironing setting in Cura:
ua-cam.com/video/nNiNBZLxkXs/v-deo.html
Looks like we'll have to subscribe for a month or two to get the convenient starter packs. I wish we didn't have to go through the hassle of a subscription and just be able to outright buy the models.
Hold tight on that I have a feeling soon there will be a work around for that 😉
orca Slicer will not let me print this part there's a missing layer
Umm, what? I'll look for the iorn feature, but really, I've wasted half a kilo and can not get this apart without breaking 😢 I will try something smaller
imagine if slicers had custom geometry for supports soninstead of boring useless lines and trees , all supports could be shaped like a useful or at least fun 3d modek TAKEN from a data base using ai alto to count most popular models that will also fit brst in your support needs, like we should have supports shaped like people and gorillas and animals golding up pillars because nature has great support structures . all supports should be made of useful objects like i once did in a resin 3d orint making all supports made mostly out of little jet fighter plane ane spider models
Why doing a stacked print in the first place? Is there any benefit? I can imagine to run unattended with less table changes?
I imagine that's the exact reason. You could do 10 times more in one print
@@dts7824 Risking anything going south to affect all prints though. Considering that and the bad finish of one side plus separation time, it can have it's uses. Further advance in implementation may be needed.
You didn’t mention any pros here, and I’m kind of struggling to see what they could be.
Ironing isn’t exactly a fast process in my experience, and I’m not convinced that the amount of time I have to take in order to iron then separate my prints would save me any time or effort over just running several normal prints on my machine. Additionally, because the bottom surface would always print against the bed, I already have a perfect layer that can face out from a wall, in addition to the top layer which when set up correctly is perfectly acceptable aesthetically in my opinion.
Part of that may just be due to the fact that my main printer is a Voron Trident that has CNC TAP, so I get basically perfect first layers every time, but I’m really struggling to see the benefits here over just running several prints one after the other. I feel like I’m missing something in terms of what the benefits of this process are, and would love to know what it is I’m missing.
I think the benefit is mostly in doing a fire and forget print that yes takes a while, but would be great for an overnight print for example. You get a bunch of grids all done while you're sleeping with out having to clear the bed. If you're going to be near your printer anyways and can clear the bed, that's going to be faster than ironing for sure.
If you have an actual job you're not gonna be home to remove one piece and start a next one over and over again, esp if you need a lot of pieces for your wall. With this you can just leave it to print for like 12 hours and have a life. Come back to a stack of these ready to put on your wall. But if you're too free, obviously printing one by one is faster than ironing.
@@KryaDiere thanks for the input, I hadn't thought of that as I work remotely and can take a few minutes here or there as needed to pull a print off.
That makes a lot of sense.
I miss the part explaining what problem this solution tries to address.
eeek! What's up with the javascript on the multiboard website? Just opening the page makes my moderate spec computer almost unusable.
It's probably the moving background. It's just a squarespace website 🥲
Runs super fast on my 7 year old i Pad pro
Works fine on my phone
There is more blank space than text on my S10+
If you really need to do this, just get two different materials of the same color. PLA/PETG/PLA/PETG. Makes getting them apart easier. That said, I guess this saves time in the sense you do not have to clear the print bed after each layer on a standard printer. Interesting idea, but I doubt I will ever use it.
In my experience, anyting that pulls apart this easily also means lower layer strength. What temperature do people print at?
Gotta keep in mind that stack printing doesn't work with all materials. PETG can give you headaches with the layers fusing together, for instance.
I did stacking prints when mass printing headbands for face shields in PETG early during the COVID shutdowns. I've forgotten the gap, but one technique that I used with my MK3 at the time was to turn the part cooling fan onto 100% for the first layer of the next stacked print, then return to the normal fan speed (30% I think) for the rest of the next stacked print. Wash, rinse, and repeat for each stacked part. This really helped breaking the head bands apart. As I recall ironing wasn't a feature in PrusaSlicer back then, but even if it was I don't know if I would have thought of that...
@@Sembazuruawesome tip, thank you!
I was the first home printer to do this. Rafts were great for supporting between prints and I generated some very bad python to do this for me. Cool to see people continuing.
Why not use petg or even dissolvable support material as a interface between the layers. It's much easier with a multimaterial printer but very possible without one.
The main reason to do this is speed of printing and convenience (unsupervised printing of many pieces). If you don't have a dual amterial printer, then you can't really do that in an unsupervised fashion
Why stack?
So due to the insane way this is posted to Thangs. That is, by one model at the time... 🤦 I'm now getting a "too many requests" error on Thangs. Dude, I love your project, and I will most probably give my monetary support, but damn, you are not making it easy to get the files. xD I don't know what I need or what I want to do with it yet. So I like to get all the things I would need and do some testing. I totally like the way that it's posted on your page, it makes it very easy to see what is in every category. But please, make some packages, with like, all the bolts of one type, or all the three types of a grid. Again, this is an amazing system, and thank you for making it free, that way we can play with it, see if it fits our need, then go back and give our support!
Show us how you stack prints. Not how to print your stacked files...
He explained how its done, there's a .2mm gap between the parts
@@travisgrudzinskas8384yeah, in what software because No slicer ive used allows for air gaps between parts/models.
@@secondleasegamer8312 I just tried this in bambu studio, what I had to do was load the stl and duplicate it. Then you can combine/group the models, from there you can adjust the height of one of the models so its .2mm above the other. You'll get an warning but you can just ignore it and you should be fine.
Is this how you thank him to give us really amazing storage solution and for free? Moron...
Die Werbung ist länger als das Video - nicht gut.
I spent over 16 hours printing the 8x8 Multiboard Core Tile x4 Stack. I honestly don't see any advantage over printing in one piece. Moreover, I see more disadvantages than advantages. Printed together, the 4 took 17 hours and 4 minutes. In the case of printing a piece separately, it takes 4 hours and 19 minutes, so a total of 17 hours and 20 minutes in total. In such a long time, those 15 minutes make a negligible difference. My biggest problem is that the print is full of residue that is hard or impossible to remove. The idea is good, but useless for large pieces. I think this technique is only useful for much smaller pieces.
15 minutes is a negligible difference if you ignore the time between the prints. With the four separate prints, you would need to go to your printer every 4 hours and remove the completed one if you want it to be completed in the minimum time. This adds time, and is impossible if you want to print it before you go to bed or to work.
A single 16 hour print could be started when I go to bed, and would be finished by the time I get home from work, for a total of 16 hours elapsed time. If it was four prints, I would start one before I go to bed, pull it off in the morning, start the other one before heading to work. Then I would pull the second one off after work, then print two more before bed. If you sleep for 8 hours and work for 8 hours, that's a total of 24 hours for the prints to be completed.
I get it. You want to make money, Or be paid for it. Which is fine, But the other system is Totally free. Interesting take on some aspects that's for sure.
This literally doesn't show how to stack them...
First heheh