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I had the Honor of befriend Peter Edward Baker in Madrid ,summer of 83 and he was not only a wonderful and infuential drummer but also a very nice person. RIP MY FRIEND.
For me Ginger always stood out from the crowd, and brought something interesting to the song in a way that you didn't often hear others do. But despite this I didn't ever think he overplayed the drums. Probably my favourite drummer.
I started playing drums in 1969. Self-taught, without lessons, I followed Cream records and any vinyl I could get hold of. FM radio was also a late-night haven for innovative stuff. Ginger Baker was an icon. I still play today and perhaps Ginger can be heard in some of my backbeat. Cheers.
I began playing in 1960 when I was in kindergarten. I did get to play with a man named Onzy Mathews. He arranged foreigns for Duke. He arrange some numbers for Duke Ellington. And he arranged and played keyboards on Lou Rawl's album, Black and Blue. At the request of his manager I met his son Kofi Baker when he played in Dallas. We talked for a few hours. Kofi Baker and Malcolm Bruce, Jack Bruce's son, altering extensively now in Sons of Cream. Kofi is a fantastic drummer.
I'm old enough to have heard Sunshine of your Love when it first hit the radio. In an era where new musical ground was being broken every week this song stood out and it was Baker's unprecedented drumming approach that gave the song a kind of primal power that made it gripping and unforgettable.
@@TweedSuit New type of nothing. Cream simply rebranded the Cotton Club sofisticated jazz tradition a la Cab Callaway, Duke Ellington etc., Jack Bruce, sounds too much like Mel Torme, and Johnny Hartman. This is something Clapton is too dull to realize re Van Halen where Eddies guitar serves as the horn section while the schmultzy Roth plays the night club sophisticate in that Harlem tradition. Beautiful Girls by VH nails it perfectly beating Cream at their own game. Have a nice day.
Thank You for your work. I am a lazy percussionist who doesn’t know a lot about the history of percussion and drums in popular music - and that’s exactly what you are bringing to me 🙏
No mention of Phil Seaman who introduced Ginger to African rhythms? He was his first mentor. Ginger was a phenomenon: a force of nature who made the drums sing.
As a drummer of years and a self considered serious drummer despite having no fame at all I still wish to offer a caveat. The mentioning of ginger bakers very inspired flipped beat figure for creams big hit which saw ginger baker displace the standard back beat pattern on counts one and three came to being not only by gingers great conception but also by grace or the band members he played with. I cannot count how many times I had an original idea for a song for a band only for the writer of the song veto my idea out and instead have me play the most conventional and standard beat for that track. I have always gladly adapted to what was and is asked of me drumming wise but when it comes to discussing gingers ideas being realised I have to point out that his band were of his mindset also and sanctioned his input equally. To give more examples of drummers having a greater say and part I point to John Bonham in led Zeppelin. Keith Moon of the who. Stewart Copeland of the police, who famously argued with sting about his inputs, and modernly Travis Barker of blink 182. John Otto of limp bizkit clearly also had a free reign for more spirited drumming and compositional function. In contrast the bands I get to play with in small venues unanimously request I play the most striped down beats despite that beat being repeated greatly throughout the set list. I do it and willingly, it's paid work after all. But to attribute genius to individual output in commercial examples is to disregard the true nature of band life. Drummers on UA-cam overcompensate via over the top drum performances.on their channel and I think it's a push back on unfair inhibiting expectations from their band counterparts. Ginger baker never faced expulsion for playing the way he did but many young drummers today do. Mind you, it's worth noting what relationship ginger baker had with his former band mates after
@@A-FrameWedge my knee jerk reaction to you is to say: ginger was lucky in that his team gave him space. Although I'm going to concede to you , I think you should still recognise that most drummers in successful bands still have to more often then not concede their success from a generous acceptance from their band at that time. Histrorically Dave grohl is an example of this and so then is ginger baker. An incredible musician as part of a great and popular group. A trasendentential musician outside of that group after. Both amazing and popularly celebrated
Each Cream member was recognized as top in their instrument. I'm sure that mutual respect cleared the way for their artistic freedom. In fact many comment on how live Cream interludes were a simultaneous three-way solo. The texture and dynamics were incredible, much in part to Ginger. I wish I had a drummer like that playing with me!
I consider Ginger the best all time, both on rock and ethnically influenced music, which was also a jazz fusion genre. He could change playing a rhythm in an instant, could also play in a low stick style as good as any drummer who played the kit. He revolutionized the bass drum technique that supplemented his play on snare and the toms, everything in perfect sync. One of the truly great rudimental players in music as well. The drummers I consider in his orb or close would be Carl Palmer, Bill Bruford, Cozy Powell, John Bonham, Ian Paice and Neil Peart. Ginger was simply the best ever.
He was a mentally ill mediocre drummer like the overrated hack band he played in. He was more a genius at marketing his brand, but honestly, I just don't get the hype around this guy. Not fit to shine Tony Williams' shoes. Next...
My favorite drummer for rock. He did make the other guys sound much better - it's true, especially Cream. I like Toad from Wheels of Fire and still listen to it. Genius. His influence is deep. I was rehearsing with a band and the drummer's style was unmistakenly Baker. It turned out he'd taken lessons from his son Kofi Baker! I can play guitar leads that sound way better with good drummer.
I was just recommended your Steve Gadd video and watched that one and this one back to back. Thank you for putting these together! Love the whole presentation, makes me forget I'm on youtube in 2023, which is great! There's a band I think you should check out called Nihiloxica, if you don't know them already. I could name some drummers I like that I'd want you to cover, but I think this is the more interesting recommendation. Thanks again, much love!
He was also an influence on another rock drummer who was actually a jazz drummer - Bill Ward from Black Sabbath. Most metal drummers can't do him justice bc they can't swing or sit behind the beat like he did
Animal's father. Today's master of the double kick who sometimes plays the bottom independently from the top ... at supersonic BPM's comes from an unlikely source; Akane Hirose who is a female Japanese rock drummer with the group: "BAND-MAID." And, as a drummer myself, I did look to Ginger Baker as a lighthouse ... long after Cream was gone.
Such a talented drummer but marred by a violent temper, witness his behaviour in the film 'Beware Mr Baker' where he broke a film maker's nose with his cane!!! I'm not surprised Clapton and definitely Bruce were very wary of him. Could you imagine him in the same room as John Lennon?
A lot of great performers or artists weren't good people. Sure, we have the occasional Keanu Reeves who's known to be a kind and has very little controversy, but then people like Baker were assholes who only cared about themselves. I will say this though, even if these artists or performers weren't good people, they did care about quality and he's still one of the greatest drummers of all time!
@@TheListenerCanon It didn't help that Peter( Ginger) lost his soldier dad in WW2 and advised his son in a letter to use his fists in fights. Watch the film 'Beware of Mr Baker'. The young, shy and timid Eric C did not know what to make of him and even joined him in the group 'Blind Faith' knowing what he was like. A frighteningly strong fellow but brilliant drummer who definitely left his mark. A pity his family suffered as did Lennon's first family from selfish behaviour.
He had a solid Rock and Roll time sense-- he was NOT a great Jazz drummer by any means-- his technique was average- He DID get a great sound which is what counts and the production work on the first 3 Albums regarding the drums was really good and interesting-- you can’t fault Ludwig!!!
@@plasticweapon No, he wasn’t -- go Listen to : Rene Creemers, Billy Kilson, Lee Pearson, Trilok Gurtu,, and then come back and talk about it- and I could name about 100 others,,,, Jeff Ballard, Adam Deitch, Sonny Emory, Billy Combham, Eric Biwandu, 100s more LiterallY….
It's a shame he was such a nut!!! After as much research about him as I could absorb my educated guess would be that the use of some serious drugs coupled with some childhood trauma created the monster he unfortunately became. I definitely agreed with his dressing down of Buddy Rich who was another, different kind of mental case!!! I never thought of Rich being anything special, every other quality drummer could move just as fast as him but fast doesn't equate to it being music, Rich's solos were nothing but fast noise to my ears and never sounded like music to me. It's unfortunate how the media and an individual being given public face time determines who's "great" which is totally erroneous to say the least and that's my opinion of Buddy Rich. Anyone else who had as many appearances on "The Tonight Show" as Rich would've eventually convinced the public of HIM being "the greatest" also. There's plenty of people I'd take over Rich and some of them twice on Sunday😮
Baker was a great Rock drummer up there with the greatest ever but in jazz he was okay I loved his sound and approach and everything in jazz some of my fave (roof) he got nowhere near where he got and rock, come on let's be real he was a rock drummer Toad is not a jazz drum solo. Did cream ever really do a jazz piece. Infuenced yes but pure jazz no.
I totally agree he was a rock drummer, it was just very interesting to discover how his stylistic and educational roots are firmly in jazz and even that he sees himself as a jazz drummer rather than a rock and roll drummer
You're judgment is clouded by the loud vocals, bass and guitars. Listen to any of Creams live improvs and imagine the bass and guitar lower in volume with no distortion and you will realise you're hearing a jazz combo. Ginger very rarely plays typical rock beats/grooves.
Baker started his professional career in 1957 - playing jazz. He played for Acker Bilk, Terry Lightfoot, Johnny Burch and many others before playing for two big bands. Later he played Jazz Rock with Graham Bond in The Organization. He had been a professional drummer for 9 years before he formed Cream, mostly playing jazz.
This video really does nothing to live up to its title. I see nothing groundbreaking about Ginger's drumming, and I've been playing drums since the 70s. Am I the only one who feels this way?
He was groundbreaking because he performed one of first drum solos in a rock song. It's similar to how John Entwistle performed one of the first bass solos in a rock song!
Aside from flams and triplets, Ginger Baker's generous use of heroin put him in company with prominent jazz musicians of the time as well. That he was able to eventually kick the habit without missing a beat made him a survivor ... which added much to his cachet.
Way overrated like the hack band Cream. I can think of scores of drummers that could play circles around him: Ansley Dunbar is one that comes to mind. Plus Dunbar wasn't mentally ill. Baker was a marketing genius by picking "fights" with jazz drummers to promote his brand. Tony Williams put this mutt in his place. Next...
If you enjoyed the video please consider donating to my Ko-Fi page! Any amount would be greatly appreciated and would go a long way, the process if very straightforward -> ko-fi.com/offbeat
Tremendous control, Ginger had in his drumming.
I had the Honor of befriend Peter Edward Baker in Madrid ,summer of 83 and he was not only a wonderful and infuential drummer but also a very nice person.
RIP MY FRIEND.
Seems like alot of people would disagree that he was nice person but I'm sure you caught him in a good mood
This was around the time that he took a break from performing and got sober, I believe he was planting Olive trees back then.
@@michaelskurski912 Yeah, I thought it was known he was an asshole. Watch the doc Beware of Mr. Baker.
For me Ginger always stood out from the crowd, and brought something interesting to the song in a way that you didn't often hear others do. But despite this I didn't ever think he overplayed the drums. Probably my favourite drummer.
Ginger's atmospheric playing on the song We're going wrong is to me just perfect.
You MUST mention the Baker-Gurvitz Army when praising Ginger Baker's drumming, those albums are all absolutely UNREAL!
one of the best bands ginger played with, very underexposed.
True
I started playing drums in 1969. Self-taught, without lessons, I followed Cream records and any vinyl I could get hold of. FM radio was also a late-night haven for innovative stuff. Ginger Baker was an icon. I still play today and perhaps Ginger can be heard in some of my backbeat. Cheers.
Ginger just has a unique power on the drums the rhythm he creates is unbelievable.
I began playing in 1960 when I was in kindergarten. I did get to play with a man named Onzy Mathews. He arranged foreigns for Duke. He arrange some numbers for Duke Ellington. And he arranged and played keyboards on Lou Rawl's album, Black and Blue. At the request of his manager I met his son Kofi Baker when he played in Dallas. We talked for a few hours. Kofi Baker and Malcolm Bruce, Jack Bruce's son, altering extensively now in Sons of Cream. Kofi is a fantastic drummer.
I'm old enough to have heard Sunshine of your Love when it first hit the radio. In an era where new musical ground was being broken every week this song stood out and it was Baker's unprecedented drumming approach that gave the song a kind of primal power that made it gripping and unforgettable.
Masters of Reality! Baker was magnifient!
Both his floor bass and mounted bass playing and technique were both superb and revolutionary.
Cream were a new type of band that influenced the later heavy blues, progressive and fusion genres. You can thank Ginger who formed the band in 1966.
@@TweedSuit New type of nothing. Cream simply rebranded the Cotton Club sofisticated jazz tradition a la Cab Callaway, Duke Ellington etc., Jack Bruce, sounds too much like Mel Torme, and Johnny Hartman. This is something Clapton is too dull to realize re Van Halen where Eddies guitar serves as the horn section while the schmultzy Roth plays the night club sophisticate in that Harlem tradition. Beautiful Girls by VH nails it perfectly beating Cream at their own game. Have a nice day.
Thank you for this terrific video on Ginger. ❤
Thank You for your work. I am a lazy percussionist who doesn’t know a lot about the history of percussion and drums in popular music - and that’s exactly what you are bringing to me 🙏
Phenomenal drummer! UP there with Krupa, Purdy, Starky, Paice etc! \m/
No mention of Phil Seaman who introduced Ginger to African rhythms? He was his first mentor. Ginger was a phenomenon: a force of nature who made the drums sing.
And heroine
It's 9 minutes long. Can't include everything
@@peoplevsradio317 It would have taken non more than 10 seconds and would have been a worthy addition.
ha ha seaman
Don't forget to subscribe! Drop your suggestions for future drummers to make a video on 👇
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Baker i consider too be one of the best Rock Drummers of all time if not the best i mean he was the best of course till i came along “
As a drummer of years and a self considered serious drummer despite having no fame at all I still wish to offer a caveat. The mentioning of ginger bakers very inspired flipped beat figure for creams big hit which saw ginger baker displace the standard back beat pattern on counts one and three came to being not only by gingers great conception but also by grace or the band members he played with. I cannot count how many times I had an original idea for a song for a band only for the writer of the song veto my idea out and instead have me play the most conventional and standard beat for that track. I have always gladly adapted to what was and is asked of me drumming wise but when it comes to discussing gingers ideas being realised I have to point out that his band were of his mindset also and sanctioned his input equally. To give more examples of drummers having a greater say and part I point to John Bonham in led Zeppelin. Keith Moon of the who. Stewart Copeland of the police, who famously argued with sting about his inputs, and modernly Travis Barker of blink 182. John Otto of limp bizkit clearly also had a free reign for more spirited drumming and compositional function. In contrast the bands I get to play with in small venues unanimously request I play the most striped down beats despite that beat being repeated greatly throughout the set list. I do it and willingly, it's paid work after all. But to attribute genius to individual output in commercial examples is to disregard the true nature of band life. Drummers on UA-cam overcompensate via over the top drum performances.on their channel and I think it's a push back on unfair inhibiting expectations from their band counterparts. Ginger baker never faced expulsion for playing the way he did but many young drummers today do. Mind you, it's worth noting what relationship ginger baker had with his former band mates after
Or it was Ginger Baker who fought to do it his way, his personality was not to just go along and do what he was told.
@@A-FrameWedge my knee jerk reaction to you is to say: ginger was lucky in that his team gave him space. Although I'm going to concede to you , I think you should still recognise that most drummers in successful bands still have to more often then not concede their success from a generous acceptance from their band at that time. Histrorically Dave grohl is an example of this and so then is ginger baker. An incredible musician as part of a great and popular group. A trasendentential musician outside of that group after. Both amazing and popularly celebrated
Each Cream member was recognized as top in their instrument. I'm sure that mutual respect cleared the way for their artistic freedom. In fact many comment on how live Cream interludes were a simultaneous three-way solo. The texture and dynamics were incredible, much in part to Ginger. I wish I had a drummer like that playing with me!
The talk thru at 5:26 was really helpful. I'll have to listen to that again to get more from it. Great video. Thanks.
actually that was 6:25
I consider Ginger the best all time, both on rock and ethnically influenced music, which was also a jazz fusion genre. He could change playing a rhythm in an instant, could also play in a low stick style as good as any drummer who played the kit. He revolutionized the bass drum technique that supplemented his play on snare and the toms, everything in perfect sync. One of the truly great rudimental players in music as well. The drummers I consider in his orb or close would be Carl Palmer, Bill Bruford, Cozy Powell, John Bonham, Ian Paice and Neil Peart. Ginger was simply the best ever.
He was a mentally ill mediocre drummer like the overrated hack band he played in. He was more a genius at marketing his brand, but honestly, I just don't get the hype around this guy. Not fit to shine Tony Williams' shoes. Next...
Brilliant drummer RIP legend
Ginger Baker's Airforce did some good albums too!
Like him or loath Ginger was up there with the best of drummers in my opinion ........he shares first place with John Bonham in my books
My favorite drummer for rock. He did make the other guys sound much better - it's true, especially Cream. I like Toad from Wheels of Fire and still listen to it. Genius. His influence is deep. I was rehearsing with a band and the drummer's style was unmistakenly Baker. It turned out he'd taken lessons from his son Kofi Baker! I can play guitar leads that sound way better with good drummer.
Great baker ✌️
I was just recommended your Steve Gadd video and watched that one and this one back to back. Thank you for putting these together! Love the whole presentation, makes me forget I'm on youtube in 2023, which is great!
There's a band I think you should check out called Nihiloxica, if you don't know them already. I could name some drummers I like that I'd want you to cover, but I think this is the more interesting recommendation. Thanks again, much love!
Yes
He was also an influence on another rock drummer who was actually a jazz drummer - Bill Ward from Black Sabbath. Most metal drummers can't do him justice bc they can't swing or sit behind the beat like he did
too bad ginger didn't appreciate him.
Animal's father. Today's master of the double kick who sometimes plays the bottom independently from the top ... at supersonic BPM's comes from an unlikely source; Akane Hirose who is a female Japanese rock drummer with the group: "BAND-MAID." And, as a drummer myself, I did look to Ginger Baker as a lighthouse ... long after Cream was gone.
Yes was my favorite and later loved Jim Gordon 🙂
I'm NOT a bloody rock drummer! Loved him there no BS in him what you saw was what you got!!!!
Such a talented drummer but marred by a violent temper, witness his behaviour in the film 'Beware Mr Baker' where he broke a film maker's nose with his cane!!! I'm not surprised Clapton and definitely Bruce were very wary of him. Could you imagine him in the same room as John Lennon?
Agreed, great documentary.
A lot of great performers or artists weren't good people. Sure, we have the occasional Keanu Reeves who's known to be a kind and has very little controversy, but then people like Baker were assholes who only cared about themselves.
I will say this though, even if these artists or performers weren't good people, they did care about quality and he's still one of the greatest drummers of all time!
@@TheListenerCanon It didn't help that Peter( Ginger) lost his soldier dad in WW2 and advised his son in a letter to use his fists in fights. Watch the film 'Beware of Mr Baker'. The young, shy and timid Eric C did not know what to make of him and even joined him in the group 'Blind Faith' knowing what he was like. A frighteningly strong fellow but brilliant drummer who definitely left his mark. A pity his family suffered as did Lennon's first family from selfish behaviour.
jack bruce was crazier than ginger.
@@plasticweapon Really? How?
Is the Dakota building in the background at 2.22, they could have visited John Lennon.
Ginger-drums/Jimi-guitar
Great group groundbreaking music wasn't long but very influential first rock group with top-notch musicians
How high are you, Ginger?
Yes...
Bill bruford next?
Ginger was a jazz drummer more than a rock one
Charlie Watts
Ginger was playing at least ten tears and touring before Cream
Ginger Baker in the 60s is as equal to Jimmy Chamberlain to the 90s.
What do Eric Clapton and coffee have in common?
They both need cream
😂
shut up.
@@thomp9054 Derek and the Dominoes would like a word!
@@TheListenerCanon😊blind faith also
Now if he could only master being a decent human being
Neil who? 😅
He had a solid Rock and Roll time sense-- he was NOT a great Jazz drummer by any means-- his technique was average- He DID get a great sound which is what counts and the production work on the first 3 Albums regarding the drums was really good and interesting-- you can’t fault Ludwig!!!
says nobodies on message boards. all the greats say he was great. and he was.
Agree. His jazz drumming was awful but that is not what he is famous for anyway.
@@plasticweapon No, he wasn’t -- go Listen to : Rene Creemers, Billy Kilson, Lee Pearson, Trilok Gurtu,, and then come back and talk about it- and I could name about 100 others,,,, Jeff Ballard, Adam Deitch, Sonny Emory, Billy Combham, Eric Biwandu, 100s more LiterallY….
It's a shame he was such a nut!!! After as much research about him as I could absorb my educated guess would be that the use of some serious drugs coupled with some childhood trauma created the monster he unfortunately became. I definitely agreed with his dressing down of Buddy Rich who was another, different kind of mental case!!! I never thought of Rich being anything special, every other quality drummer could move just as fast as him but fast doesn't equate to it being music, Rich's solos were nothing but fast noise to my ears and never sounded like music to me. It's unfortunate how the media and an individual being given public face time determines who's "great" which is totally erroneous to say the least and that's my opinion of Buddy Rich. Anyone else who had as many appearances on "The Tonight Show" as Rich would've eventually convinced the public of HIM being "the greatest" also. There's plenty of people I'd take over Rich and some of them twice on Sunday😮
Probably the childhood trauma was his father dying when he was 5 years old
Ginger Baker's drumming is nothing but slow noise to my ears 😃
Pour boiling water over the tea.
Baker was a great Rock drummer up there with the greatest ever but in jazz he was okay I loved his sound and approach and everything in jazz some of my fave (roof) he got nowhere near where he got and rock, come on let's be real he was a rock drummer
Toad is not a jazz drum solo. Did cream ever really do a jazz piece. Infuenced yes but pure jazz no.
I totally agree he was a rock drummer, it was just very interesting to discover how his stylistic and educational roots are firmly in jazz and even that he sees himself as a jazz drummer rather than a rock and roll drummer
You're judgment is clouded by the loud vocals, bass and guitars. Listen to any of Creams live improvs and imagine the bass and guitar lower in volume with no distortion and you will realise you're hearing a jazz combo. Ginger very rarely plays typical rock beats/grooves.
Toad ,is like a raga for drums alone.
Baker started his professional career in 1957 - playing jazz. He played for Acker Bilk, Terry Lightfoot, Johnny Burch and many others before playing for two big bands. Later he played Jazz Rock with Graham Bond in The Organization. He had been a professional drummer for 9 years before he formed Cream, mostly playing jazz.
This video really does nothing to live up to its title. I see nothing groundbreaking about Ginger's drumming, and I've been playing drums since the 70s. Am I the only one who feels this way?
He was groundbreaking because he performed one of first drum solos in a rock song. It's similar to how John Entwistle performed one of the first bass solos in a rock song!
Boy for someone who hates Ginger Baker you’re watching this video,you must be jealous.
Aside from flams and triplets, Ginger Baker's generous use of heroin put him in company with prominent jazz musicians of the time as well. That he was able to eventually kick the habit without missing a beat made him a survivor ... which added much to his cachet.
He was overrated...by himself, but he was a good drummer. He just was not as good as he thought he is.
No he isn't stop praising peter Baker
Way overrated like the hack band Cream. I can think of scores of drummers that could play circles around him: Ansley Dunbar is one that comes to mind. Plus Dunbar wasn't mentally ill. Baker was a marketing genius by picking "fights" with jazz drummers to promote his brand. Tony Williams put this mutt in his place. Next...
How? He played limp wristed drums over songs other people wrote. And thinks hes the second coming of God because of it.
Pronounced " BAAYY -KR
Ginger-drums/Jimi-guitar