My thoughts exactly. Watch the video. I had the same idea and started to skim through the comments to see if anyone had mentioned it first. Great minds think alike!!!😜
Just need a smooth enough hole really. Even with a well tuned machine pumping out exactly the right size holes, running a straight piece of wire or the right size drill bit in and out of the hole in a straight motion works to deburr and burnish the hole for smooth motion. Trick is finding a good RPM for your bit/wire and plastic but can get a shiny hole if you find just the right speed.
Put the Allen Key in a Dremel and grind a needlepoint on it to alleviate any contact point deviation. Also on the end that triggers the optical switch, add a black "Flag" that triggers the sensor. That will diminish the trigger point error induced by the angled surfaces of the key and make for a more stable Trigger Point.
Good idea William, but a sharp needlepoint could sink into the surface it is probing, and thus a more blunt would give better results. You are right it the surface points area will/could make that impact. But the opposite isn't perfect either. But you get others, like me, to thinking, and that is great.
Holy crap I think you are on to something! If you look at the screenshot at 10:40 he talks about the Range stat at the bottom, but every entry as you go down the page the Range stat gets larger!
I feel like that repeatability accuracy is not far off a genuine BL touch. Or even a CR touch which is purportedly more accurate. I like the simplicity. Less is oftentimes more.
"Don't buy knock offs from China" Proceeds to build part for Chinese knock-off printer with Chinese knock-off sensor bought from Chinese knock-off website.
Either proudly made in the USA 😤😤😤🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🦅💪🏻😎 or it's just a fake knock off. Good line of reasoning dude. A knock off is a copy of something already existing made with the purpose of deceiving. Creality is a brand and makes his own products and aliexpress is just a portal like ebay: you buy from sellers not the platform itself. And you cannot claim a basic optical sensor has some kind of "legitimacy" as it's a generic enough part that doesn't have any owner.
@@ef3675 I didn't say anything about made in the USA. All I said was that it was funny he said not to buy knockoffs, then used a knock off printer (It's a clone of a prusa) and bought knock off parts from a site that specializes in selling knock off stuff. No shame, my printer is also a knock off. I was just pointing out the irony.
@@justind8521 although I see the irony about a China made product, can't agree with the other part. Ender 3 isn't a knockoff of Prusa. If you strech it that far, then Prusa and even the reprap is a 'knockoff' of Stratasys FDM printers.
@@ytskt I stand corrected. The Ender is an entirely original design not based on any existing printers. It's not at all a knockoff made to sell printer to people looking for a budget friendly option.
My first printer, a MakerGear M2, came with a BLTouch and I spent hundred of dollars on replacement probes. On an unattended printer without collision or other kind of failure detection, spaghetti or curling corners can snag the probe. This can then start shifting layers and worst case, a feedback loop that gets bad fast. Many times, I didn't notice the probe was bent, leading to frustrating goose chases. I've never had a problem with the PINDA on my Prusa, and since I ditched the glass on my M3, I'm thinking of switching to inductive. I prefer to spend my tweaking time elsewhere, but to each his own. Ditto on the shout-out to IP. It's something we don't think about enough, being so spoiled by the cheapness of clones that it's so easy to not care about innovation. It's only going to get worse if ignore it. Double ditto on KISS. It's a shame I only ever remember the basics after days of over-engineering.
Its kind of funny that you mention it that it started with micro-switches and a removable probe, and now in areas like the voron community, they ar egoing back to micro-swites in things like the klicky probe to deal with the heated chamber challenges of other probe solutions. Keep up the good work!
Some times simple is the best. I've tested a few key switches used by the keyboard building community and they also work great in filament run out detectors due to their low actuation pressure.
The Klicky probe is great because it auto adjusts your z offset when you change build surfaces and nozzles etc. In my experience though, you still need to run it at a consistent chamber temperature or you will get first layer inconsistencies between prints. If I print from my machine cold, I get a first layer that is way too high and I have to adjust my switch_offset to move the nozzle closer. But then if my chamber is heated I get prints that are way too close. I don’t know if this is because the mechanics of the switch itself alters with the heat or if it’s caused by something else, but this drove me crazy. Now I just make sure my chamber is heated and I get prefect first layers even when I switch out build surfaces and nozzles.
microswitch is definitely the most KISS solution, his solution while he thought is simple is actually far more prone to errors than a simple microswitch... in fact i always go back to using those small tactile switch mounted directly on the nozzle.
@@justincasiere9598 but it's seldom the same exact thing. The plastic maybe exact but all the hardware is where corners are cut hence the price is cheaper
I tend to bounce around with the subject content I watch. Every time I bounce here I always find something interesting and enlightening. Thanks for that 👍🏽.
Prusa offered me part of a 3 BTC open contract to gangstalk you, but I defiantly say "NO" to the abusive practices. HONESTY is what is needed in the 3D printing community. We stand with DPT.
This was a great follow up to the first version of this that you posted. Solid concept and I'm sure you'll nail down the fine tuning in no time. Good job, dude. FWIW, I like the Euclid Probe a lot better than the BLT. I've had 5 BLTs fail in as many years, each time costing me a lot of money in damaged print surfaces and new BLTs
this is why i buy the cheap 3d touch probes. they work and their like 15$. id like to support bltouch but 40$ is alot of money for something that will break eventually and sometimes they just dont work properly( i have 2 real bltouch sensors currently and honestly the 3d touch probes work better as far as just doing their job, the accuracy is off a slight bit but for 25$ less ill make do)
See?? THIS is why I love watching, and support where I can, Design Prototype Test! Not only is this a big time K.I.S.S. part, it's got its roots all the way back to the humble hobbyest 3D printings' beginnings!😁 Please, never stop with your content. I'ma lifer for sure!😋😁❤️
I like the fact you don't only are criticizing things and situations in the printing world(to do good) but you also have the brains to make things yourself! Good luck with the product.Grtz
@@crawlerin I know who you are we have chatted in the voron discord before. Nice to see you here. I wish I had a zero and I would do the sideswipe for sure.
@@madeintexas3d442 Hey hello 🙂 Sideswipe definitely looks cool 😀I believe I saw other DIY printers like VzBoT using klicky too. After all, it makes sense when you want to make toolhead lighter in pursue of speeeeeeeeed, then you don't have to carry extra weight of sensor. Euclid probe of similar kind makes mounts for more printers too.
This is a terrific build idea. I got my stock ender3v2 for Christmas last year, and in a lucky coincidence my family bought me PETG instead of PLA for my first filament spool, so I had to learn some things pretty quickly. Haven't burnt out my feed tube yet, but did melt off my shroud, but still works okay. My first mod was updating the firmware (which is an ABSOLUTE MUST), and second was a side-spool holder. A couple comments about this video though: I would have liked if the model of the optic sensor was included in the graphic animation, to show where the sensing transition was, and also a little the explanation how the trigger point is at a constant, if indeterminate, offset from the bed, how that is adjusted in the firmware to create the z adjustments.
Interesting. - There is a 3rd situation where Bl-Touch, or electromagnetic based sensing device won't work; in a strong magnetic field. I made a super duper Delta printer using ball joint and magnets to eliminate slop. The field generated by the 6 magnets around the effector is strong enough to disrupt completely the weak little electro-magnet of the Bl-Touch. - You would have less wobble if you had longer sleeve or even better 2 paced out guide holes. - Can use a larger Allen key if wanted, just use a thin flag. - need to package this in order to easily adapt to many hot head styles.
I love this, but not just because it adds even more DIY to my machines, but because the housing can be even more versatile with a version that supports a BLTouch, a CRTouch or no touch sensor at all. If you would consider it, please add a pair of models that will increase the utility of this 'system'.
Nice build! A couple years ago i've spoted this type of "BLTouch" on a Brazilian 3D Printer. GTMax3D, is the commpany name. But, in his machine, the allen key was a little bigger, so the probe retraction is done lowering the Z on the bed itself.
I'm not your guy, and you are wrong. If it was such a great solution Prusa wouldn't be abandoning it with the new PrusaXL. I can already hear your reply " They need the analogue touch nozzle functionality so they can self align the different print heads. That's why the XL doesn't have a P.I.N.D.A. probe." Sure, that's a believable reason for the tool changer XL, but what about the single nozzle "regular" Prusa XL? Why are they forcing you to pay extra money for the nozzle touch sensor? I thought the P.I.N.D.A. worked perfectly. So, either your favorite company is A)Ripping you off and forcing you to buy something you don't need on the upcoming printer or B)Selling you inferior technology in the P.I.N.D.A. probe. Either way I don't understand how you can continue to be a fanboy for this company that obviously just wants your money and your continued quasi-religious devotion. The idea that someone could love this company with such intensity is so weird to me. Anyway, now that I've made this criticism it's likely there will be an announcement that the single nozzle PrusaXL will come with a P.I.N.D.A. Then, when I claim that my criticisms motivated the change there will be a bunch of comments telling me "You are so egotistical, you think Prusa sees your videos or reads your comments. Dude! They don't even know you exist. Get over yourself."
Please publish your start script as well for those of that use klipper... could be used to build a gcode macro in mainsail. Thanks for all your work! great job!
The biggest issue i have with this and all other bed leveling methods like the BLTouch etc, is that it does not know of the current nozzle height. Every time is dismantle the hot extruder and put it together again the height was always different then before. For me the only right solution is to use the nozzle to measure the bed level.
With the comments I did read, I did not see ' make the block the key sits in slide between 2 bars, oversize the block the key sits in and after printing sand the block to barely slide between the bars. Gorilla Lube is my favorite for moving parts since it ' gunks up ' less than WD40 and seems to work well on plastics long term ( I do mostly PLA and not seen an issue on my STARTT 3D printer upgrades yet ). Keeping it simple can also mean that the imaged block for the key does not need the full key embedded inside, it can be the top and the ' inner side ' in the block, the rest sliding inside a C or U channel guide. There are a lot of options to make it drop straight and repeatable by just forcing the upper area to only fit it. Similar to the ruler example, just opening your hand enough, it dropped straight down.
That wobble effect causing inaccuracy is why I opted to print and design a probe in the cnc surface probe style but adjusted down to the size of a BL Touch and using parts readily recyclable (probe tip is burned out CD drive's linear rod, pre-load spring also found in all drives as a vibration dampener). Even in a setup that guides the pins around the probe into their saddles in the housing, takes thoroughly accounting for that motion to get it right. My CAD constraints all look like programming functions at this point.
Definitely interesting probe. I've saw some similar one like Touch Mi. For safety i would make pin printable and not very strong specifically for cases when for some reason you forgot to retract it and it hits the bed or printed object. So pin will easily break without damage of head holder for example. Pin can be printed again so there won't be big damage from incident. But what i think would be a winner in probes is that which will measure the offsets by nozzle. It's a really painful to set correct Z offset after changing the nozzle (or whole head). So probe which will measure bed and nozzle offset at the same time would be perfect.
@@iridiandot great idea! Unfortunately it's mostly for bowden system. Doing it with direct extruder will be more tricky as you have to invent some flexible mount for the whole extruder. May be strain gauge for the whole X rail can sense bending when nozzle touch the bed.
I have a couple of ideas: 1) maybe some adjustable rollers/bearings in the tube could help improve precision; 2) consider selling completed devices or parts kits on Etsy or something similar.
I used Sharp optical switches for engine cam/crank position sensing with excellent results and reliability. Great choice. They have some with narrow apertures, might help some. Also have a half baked idea of 2 magnets, one on probe, other rotates for park/release. One side will attract, other repels for slight spring action.
Yes! The slotted ones. Under $.80 online. Very sharp transition and if the interrupt or is knife edged (or very thin), the response is extremely accurate.
So when you use it, you have to manually pull it down once to release it from the magnet, and at the end of the bed sensing cycle, you have the machine push the key back to the magnet, right?
BINGO! That is one great solution! You know, you could make that 0.025mm closer to that sub-micron number by putting pieces of electrical tape over the round sensor hoke with a gap of about 35-50% of the diameter of the sensor hole. Also, the closer to the sensor side of the transmitter receiver pair you locate the interrupter, the more consistent and snappier the response. You’ve probably already looked at most or all of these features, but I thought I’d throw-in on them for those super detail types (like me). Thanks for what I think will prove to be one of the most innovative 3D printer hacks of this cycle…. Cheers, sir!
But that's exactly the point! Why would you bother with such an accuracy that you don't need here, yet there are still other problems not solved yet. With this design he is solving those problems, and gives a darn f* to unnecessary accuracy, that lot of people hooked on like they need to compensate something.
@@dekurvajo Practical or not, needed or not, every engineer strives for accuracy. It’s in our DNA. The fact that he resolves a set of other issues is completely laudable and appropriate to this idea. The fact that he’d like the probe action to be more accurate is equally laudable. Practicality, complexity and cost will likely swamp out many potential improvements, but he’s done his homework and has a nice solution.
@@perwestermark8920 First off, I don't recommend AliExpress for anything. The main reason is that it's a marketplace for counterfeits. That said, you can buy a genuine Sharp optical sensor from SparkFun, Adafruit, etc.
@@bernardtarver Yes, I don't recoment AliExpress either. But buying the sensor from yhem isn't really against innovation because the light sensors are commodity products, just like resistors. Which means non-Sharp sensors are still genuine sensors. But I do wonder if the light sensor might be an issue - looked like the readings changed with 0.005 mm for every single reading. So something is very much broken with the setup. Without that error, this sensor should have managed with a 10x better average result.
@@bernardtarver Height sensor? You mean light sensor. It was a light sensor he bought from AliExpress. A light sensor is a commodity product just as a resistor. It's only if there are very specific needs that there would be a reason to hunt the datasheets and buy a very specific sensor of a very specific brand.
No need for a magnet to retain the allen wrench in up position - just design a bayonet lug style slot in the body in which the wrench is dropped and retained by its own weight when not in use.
I´d use a 3mm linear rod and use two sintered brass bushings as a guide. But great to know that it would not even be necessary. Great idea for self deploying, kind of like an optical klicky probe. I admire the simplicity.
Well done! It’s clear that good design intrinsically tugs your soul, and improvements just have to come out. It’s great to see this, as opposed to pursuing mainstream, easy videos!
I credited the TouchMI in the description. I have never seen one in person and so I was not able to learn from it to develop my design. Also, the combination of features in my design and the sheer simplicity has never been done before: Optical switch + Allen Key + Magnet + guide hole + physical catch for deployment/retraction. I think this is the lowest cost bed probe that has ever been presented. So, wouldn't you agree that I have created something new?
Cool. In fact there are examples of optical sensors being used in touch probes on Thingiverse from as early as 2017 that I've found. Might even be some some predating that. www.thingiverse.com/thing:2197895
I gave a thumbs up, just for the talk about the piracy of intellectual property to make knock offs. I'm so glad someone else talking the praises of using the original product brands.
To improve the consistency of the vertical movement I would hold the probe with a bi-stable flexure. That way it would not rely on gravity and you could eliminate the magnet. Likely you could eliminate the key as well and print the probe as part of the existing fan housing. I would also make a housing around the optical sensor to eliminate stray light.
To eliminate maximum deviation, why not have a continuity circuit instead of an optical sensor? The Allen key (or any other hunk of metal) can rest on a metal pad. As it drops, the key loses contact, breaks the circuit. It seems like that would be more consistently accurate with no optics required. A rounded contact end will mitigate surface area contact on each drop ensuring less deviation. I could be wrong, but that should be more accurate.
Matthew, I cut you slack on your Cardano endorsement, but your love of the BLTouch really amazes me considering how problematic they are (i.e. failed pin retraction) and the cost. You might look into the Euclid probe and I think you’ll find a truly cost-effective and accurate bed height probe. Just my $0.023 worth (adjusted for inflation).
Cardano is in the Toilet along with the rest of Crypto. If I sold now, I would lose half of my money. Good thing I had always planned to hold for 10+ years. I think I'm coming along to Elon's way of thinking and liking DogeCoin now. The dirty secret of ETH and ADA is the central control. I didn't understand this when I bought ADA. Crypto should be free from manipulation by its creators. Power corrupts. We already have centralized currencies which are heavily controlled. Crypto is supposed to be the check and ballance. RE Euclid Probe: Yeah, it's great. I haven't felt the need to make a video about the parking probe options for Voron printers because they are getting plenty of press already, and I haven't built a Voron myself. I did however make my own parking probe: ua-cam.com/video/CSEJdV_sgng/v-deo.html before I had ever seen the ones similar to the Euclid. If I gave it some though I might be able to figure out a mounting solution for a Euclid or Similar on the Ender 3 but I don't think it would be ideal. there is not enough movement overrun outside the bed on the Ender 3 so any solution is likely to subtract build volume.
Excellent video! You are a great contributor to our community. I have been thinking there has to be a better probe than the bltouch or inductive. Keep it up!
I've had to put this to bed so many times. It gets boring. The Ender 3 is derivative of the Mendell Max. The Prusa i3 Mk.3 is the third variation of the third iteration of the Prusa Mendel. The original Mendel was developed by Dr. Ed Sells. Therefore, both the Prusa and the reality printers share a common ancestor. If the Ender 3 or the CR-10 is a clone then so is the Prusa i3 Mark 3.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I never said that the Prusa wasn't a derivative product. You are the one that is riding the high horse. Meanwhile publicly dragging other 3DP UA-camrs through the mud. Nice one!
Who did I drive through the mud? I called out CHEP for doing 5 minute science and not adequately understanding or if he understands not adequately explaining how beds warp when they are heated. I wouldn't classify that as dragging someone through the mud.
Mate, you took nearly 3 minutes to mansplain why Chuck doesn't do science, how his popularity doesn't make him right. In the process tying his name to what you dubbed "the dumbest comment in the history of comments" (paraphrasing here). And you just did it again. Notwithstanding that your MacGyver bed probe is a clever little hack... Get over yourself.
I'm not your mate. I don't know you and you don't know me. Don't pretend like you're my friend and then leave a comment like this. It's dishonest. Helpful criticisms are welcome but your comment is not positive/constructive. Given that 99% of my audience (and the 3D printing audience in general) is male, your usage of the word "mansplain" is incorrect. Even if you intended it to mean that I was being condescending in my explanation, not everyone has the information you have. Remember I'm talking to thousands of guys. I need to fully cover all aspects of any arguement I'm making so that we can be sure there is no misunderstanding. If you were insulted by me covering basic information...well that just shows a personality flaw of yours. It's not something that I did. Your final jab in this comment "Get over yourself" again shows your insecurities. I endeavor to show no ego in my videos. I don't even introduce myself on camera because it's supposed to be about the content not about me. I think you perceive of me as being more talented than you are and this makes you feel bad when you compare yourself to me. Why are you comparing yourself to me? I didn't make you feel bad. You made yourself feel bad. I don't deserve your animosity.
no way i'm buying a genuine BLTouch in poland. my parents work enough for me. $40 may not seem a lot, but that's at least two days of work where I live. the same reason i've only bought one genuine Arduino.
Very cool. But technically, you measured the precision rather than the accuracy of the probe. Precision is how close together are individual measurements of a single thing; accuracy is how close the average of those measurements are to the actual value.
Technically you are correct. The best kind of correct as Homer Simpson says. To expound I wish to point out that the accuracy is determined and adjustable by me. I can adjust the probe offset value in firmware until a very fine accuracy is achieved. I believe the "Standard Deviation" measurement is the appropriate measurement for accuracy in this context. Meaning that 68% of the time the actual distance measurement will be +/-.015307mm from reality. That seems pretty accurate to me
Hi, I found your project on hackaday. First of all, nice idea! I noticed, by looking on your data at 10:17, that the measured position value is systematically increasing. If thats really the case, then your measurement accuracy is corrupted not by the probe design but by a component of your printer. For example "lost steps" could cause such problems. Reach back, if you might want support on this topic. Best regards, Andre
I just found your video. Did you ever finish the project and make a second video? I am looking for the update you mentioned. It looks really interesting. Hoping for more. Thanks. 😊
Creality makes their own version (CR touch), which may be a licensed 'copy'. Actually, not a copy, it is a bit improved with a metal probe and a better mounting system. But not any cheaper (in fact sometimes a buck more than the BL).
I like the simplicity of your deployment method. I have been working on a touch sensor that uses a Nitinol wire actuator to deploy the probe but it is too complicated by far. I do use a piezoelectric sensor to detect contact on the touch sensor, along with a single underbed piezo sensor to detect nozzle contact and if the nozzle is clean. I will see if I can come up with a version using your "Allen key" method but I will continue with the piezo as it works well for me.
really awesome concept for an ABL. I bought myself a BLTouch and really love it, and honestly I didn't feel the price was too steep(also compared to some other "upgrades" people suggest). What are your reasons for ~$40 being to expensive, with most machines already costing a couple hundred to thousands of dollars.
@@NiSE_Rafter i mean kind of... you said you got a deal, not really the actual cost of the machine, and the ender series is already fairly cheap. the BLTouch has worked great for almost full automation of my printer, so for you, if it is only half the cost of the rest of the machine, that also seems like a decent deal to me. I wish getting autopilot only cost half the price of my car :D
Maybe if I was earning 5 Million dollars per month from someone else's work it would be an issue. If someone was out there earning that kind of ridiculous money from other people's ideas in "the community" that person would really be deserving of the hate/trolling that you're trying to bring to me.
@@DesignPrototypeTest it was a simple question that you've posed previously. I watched your video, liked it, couldn't remember if you said where you saw it and thought maybe you meant to note in the description but it got missed. No trolling or hate intended.
I'm used to getting trolled so I guess I misread the intentions behind your comment. The Alan key probe has been implemented previously back in the dawn of the reprap movement. You can find many versions of it on Thingiverse primarily used on Delta style printers. None of them have the magnet stowability that I came up with here. When I did this work I had never seen any solution that was the same as mine. After deciding to use an alan key I independently came up with the rest of this. As it turns out there is a French company that has a similarly functional pin based probe. That is the TouchMI that I talked about in the description but I didn't know that existed before I had completed this project. I've never earned a penny from this design. I did all this work and gave it away. I'm so tired of being beat up by the loser open source warriors who want to make me feel bad for innovating on 3D printers and hiding the fruits of my labor behind "a paywall." I make poverty wages for my efforts on this channel. I should just sell out and start accepting sponsorships and doing affiliate links.
@@DesignPrototypeTest When I first bought my Ender 3 I tried a few different shrouds, but none that had an effective built-in probe mount, they were more a modular design that looked bolted on as an afterthought, so your design is aesthetically pleasing. I've not seen a version with the optical sensor before (TouchMi as you pointed out has it..but again, "afterthought"), let alone integrated into one shroud. Some like modularity, some like all in one. For me it depends on the printer. On the Ender, once it's set, I only occasionally have clogged nozzles, so having an integrated shroud is a bigger positive for me. I'd use it if my ender were still more... ender. There was nothing wrong with it, I just like tinkering, so the Ender and my Tronxy are my perpetually changing machines.
Shopping around for an optical switch and I notice some of the ones with built-in amplifiers/schmitt triggers specifically mention temperature compensation. Makes sense, the photo-transistor would pickup thermal noise offsetting the trigger threshold. Something to watch out for.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I dare not post a link, but search for a datasheet for any optical switch with a "built-in temperature compensation circuit" like EE-SX398 by Omron. Plenty of papers on temperature dependence of phototransistors and such. As I understand, the slit width and sensor area are much larger than the precision we are trying to achieve, so it is very much operating in the analog regime so where precisely the trigger fires will be quite important.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Found a good one. I'd post a link, but UA-cam. It's linked on my T-verse probe design/demo. "Technical Information for Photomicrosensors" comes up as first result (Omron). Figures 9 and 10 show temperature dependence of both LED and sensor with a 10% dropoff in light current from room temperature to 80C. If we assume the aperture width represents the transition from light to dark, 10% translates to a pretty big systematic error in height (which can be accounted for).
Thinking on this some more, it's probably not so bad. The sensor will saturate at high brightness, so fading out across the entire aperture width is not the problem. More likely it will stay on until the last little sliver of light disappears. So crossing the threshold will happen over a much shorter distance than the actual aperture width. Just crank up the brightness. Some sensors allow for bright pulsed light, too.
This is great! My original DPT direct drive mod is still holding up perfectly (even though I printed it in PLA) but I’d love to gain this functionality on my Ender 3.
I just got the crtouch and installed it and so far I love it ( I'm new to 3d printing). I do like your idea but, it is a little more than I want to take on. You feel pretty strongly about the knock off thing but, I have to wander why you got the switched off aliexpress (based in China) instead of a local electronic store.
The slop of the sliding channel should not matter at all - the allen key is long so the angle of it can't change in a way that matters. The error is likely on the light detection side. Not sure exactly why but I would like to see a plot of reading over time - if there is a temperature issue with opto-coupler because it seemed like there was a pattern to the error. Every single new reading increased the z position with 0.005 mm, which indicates a systematic error. If something is slipping or if something heats up from the light sensor LED or the head or something. Without this systematic error, the result would have been about 10x better.
Make the hole a triangle, drill a hold him the putter most side, put a set screw through and back it off as soon as the Allan key drops freely. This could be a simple solution with minimal design change.
@@DesignPrototypeTest sorry, Autocorrect got the better of me on that last comment. What I meant to say was: "Make the hole a triangle, drill a hole and tap one side, put a set screw through till it holds up the allen key, back it off and stop as soon as the Allan key drops freely. This could be a simple solution with minimal design change." With an allen key being 6 sided, it would make using a triangle hole line up just right. Hopefully this made your brain not bleed trying to read it.
Its wild how much people will try to disrupt you when your going your own way and refuse to pad your oppinion. Just ignore the people saying "no one likes a winer".... but complaining about intellectual property theft is not whining, its verry justified
Maybe some kind of standard dowel, or cheap straight shank tool like a drill would have the least slop and most circularity. Then a reamer can be used to create a smooth, accurate bore for a much tighter tolerance.
While I have no experience with Prusa's pinda probe, induction probes like the one from TH3D work extremely well. For manual levelling CHEP has a great, cheap, reliable DIY solution. Then there's the "Klicky Probe" for Vorons. Good on you for home brewing, but I'd love to see you adapt the Klicky Probe for Ender 3 type clones.
my first thought when i saw the opening clips and the probing action i thought "damn, that's great. i want that!", i was already sold on it there. then it kinda lost me with all the talking which starts me skipping through the video for the info i want, since i already know a bit about the other probe options. but hey, i don't make videos like this, so who am i to tell you how to edit your videos. anyway, great job on this mod ! 🙂
tube shape with half moon dots (dot guide) on the 6 sides at the top and bottom of shaft for the only contact areas to the metal shaft. optional is a draft shaft or blown air for canned air nozzle to clear debree chaffing out of the shaft hole via a side open area. clip locking top design to allow allen to be removed and cleaned. optional design is use a hobbyist brass tube heat melt into the walls or glued into shaft area.
While I agree with you on the whole "Support the creator. Buy the original.", the number of Ender 3 clones appear infinite, come from so many reputable companies, and often appear in the same shops on the same shelf at competitive prices. Not all ctrl V ctrl C jobs are negative.
Thanks for sharing. The amount of learning information you share throughout the video, not just the prototype, is amazing. Respect. (Would this work on a Ender 5 Pro)?
very good i like it! and FWIW -+1 thou sounds to me like a plenty good enough accuracy for any typical fdm printers. but especially at such a low bom cost. really appreciated this and thanks for doing the video 👍👍
Thank for your useful video. I made one using optical sensor, SG90 mini servo and small aluminum parts almost 8 years ago. Your one is better, because servo has EMI issues (I guess so). I've started to use my 3D again and changed optical sensor with TCST2300. If you use it you may get better results. My results; Mean: 0.036250 Min: 0.029 Max: 0.042 Range: 0.014 Standard Deviation: 0.004644 Mean: 0.040375 Min: 0.031 Max: 0.047 Range: 0.016 Standard Deviation: 0.005002 Mean: 0.040375 Min: 0.036 Max: 0.047 Range: 0.011 Standard Deviation: 0.003875
I was going to use a BLTouch on my Kossel Mini but I didn't think about my magnetic push armswhen designing my effector. The magnets are too strong and too close so their magnetic field interferes with the BLTouch making it useless. Now I have to design something else and was going to try and use an Allen key style. Just need to find the time to design something.
I bet you could use a piece of PTFE tube to help with the movement of the Allen key.
Great minds think alike!!
or silicon spray
My thoughts exactly. Watch the video. I had the same idea and started to skim through the comments to see if anyone had mentioned it first. Great minds think alike!!!😜
Just need a smooth enough hole really. Even with a well tuned machine pumping out exactly the right size holes, running a straight piece of wire or the right size drill bit in and out of the hole in a straight motion works to deburr and burnish the hole for smooth motion. Trick is finding a good RPM for your bit/wire and plastic but can get a shiny hole if you find just the right speed.
Linear ball bearing for the win
Put the Allen Key in a Dremel and grind a needlepoint on it to alleviate any contact point deviation. Also on the end that triggers the optical switch, add a black "Flag" that triggers the sensor. That will diminish the trigger point error induced by the angled surfaces of the key and make for a more stable Trigger Point.
A sharp point can be an issue for heavily textured beds though, maybe just a rounded tip
just a touch of flat-black spray paint on the key would reduce the trigger point error too
A ball end would be much better and less prone to bed surface error.
Good idea William, but a sharp needlepoint could sink into the surface it is probing, and thus a more blunt would give better results. You are right it the surface points area will/could make that impact. But the opposite isn't perfect either.
But you get others, like me, to thinking, and that is great.
Only thing I would look into is that the deviation was increasing constantly over the 10 measurements. Backlash is the first thing that comes to mind.
Holy crap I think you are on to something! If you look at the screenshot at 10:40 he talks about the Range stat at the bottom, but every entry as you go down the page the Range stat gets larger!
I feel like that repeatability accuracy is not far off a genuine BL touch. Or even a CR touch which is purportedly more accurate. I like the simplicity. Less is oftentimes more.
Make the tube the wrench slides in longer. That will reduce your deviation angle.
"Don't buy knock offs from China" Proceeds to build part for Chinese knock-off printer with Chinese knock-off sensor bought from Chinese knock-off website.
Either proudly made in the USA 😤😤😤🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🦅💪🏻😎 or it's just a fake knock off. Good line of reasoning dude.
A knock off is a copy of something already existing made with the purpose of deceiving. Creality is a brand and makes his own products and aliexpress is just a portal like ebay: you buy from sellers not the platform itself. And you cannot claim a basic optical sensor has some kind of "legitimacy" as it's a generic enough part that doesn't have any owner.
@@ef3675 I didn't say anything about made in the USA. All I said was that it was funny he said not to buy knockoffs, then used a knock off printer (It's a clone of a prusa) and bought knock off parts from a site that specializes in selling knock off stuff. No shame, my printer is also a knock off. I was just pointing out the irony.
@@justind8521 although I see the irony about a China made product, can't agree with the other part. Ender 3 isn't a knockoff of Prusa. If you strech it that far, then Prusa and even the reprap is a 'knockoff' of Stratasys FDM printers.
@@ytskt I stand corrected. The Ender is an entirely original design not based on any existing printers. It's not at all a knockoff made to sell printer to people looking for a budget friendly option.
@@justind8521 ender is NOT a clone of prusa. They were developed from common ancestor, so they are similar, but both are equally original.
My first printer, a MakerGear M2, came with a BLTouch and I spent hundred of dollars on replacement probes. On an unattended printer without collision or other kind of failure detection, spaghetti or curling corners can snag the probe. This can then start shifting layers and worst case, a feedback loop that gets bad fast. Many times, I didn't notice the probe was bent, leading to frustrating goose chases. I've never had a problem with the PINDA on my Prusa, and since I ditched the glass on my M3, I'm thinking of switching to inductive. I prefer to spend my tweaking time elsewhere, but to each his own. Ditto on the shout-out to IP. It's something we don't think about enough, being so spoiled by the cheapness of clones that it's so easy to not care about innovation. It's only going to get worse if ignore it. Double ditto on KISS. It's a shame I only ever remember the basics after days of over-engineering.
Thanks for continuing to post! Don't let content theft slow you down :)
Thank you Dillon. Your good wishes are reciprocated.
Its kind of funny that you mention it that it started with micro-switches and a removable probe, and now in areas like the voron community, they ar egoing back to micro-swites in things like the klicky probe to deal with the heated chamber challenges of other probe solutions. Keep up the good work!
Some times simple is the best. I've tested a few key switches used by the keyboard building community and they also work great in filament run out detectors due to their low actuation pressure.
The Klicky probe is great because it auto adjusts your z offset when you change build surfaces and nozzles etc. In my experience though, you still need to run it at a consistent chamber temperature or you will get first layer inconsistencies between prints.
If I print from my machine cold, I get a first layer that is way too high and I have to adjust my switch_offset to move the nozzle closer. But then if my chamber is heated I get prints that are way too close.
I don’t know if this is because the mechanics of the switch itself alters with the heat or if it’s caused by something else, but this drove me crazy.
Now I just make sure my chamber is heated and I get prefect first layers even when I switch out build surfaces and nozzles.
microswitch is definitely the most KISS solution, his solution while he thought is simple is actually far more prone to errors than a simple microswitch... in fact i always go back to using those small tactile switch mounted directly on the nozzle.
I support RepRap, thus I support clones.
Especially when it's 1/4 the price for the exact same thing.
@@justincasiere9598 but it's seldom the same exact thing. The plastic maybe exact but all the hardware is where corners are cut hence the price is cheaper
@@angelvip2474 it's 90% of the product for 10% of the price. Every single clone I have works fine.
@@Treekicker How many BLTouch are you running?
@@Treekicker How many times have you managed to get warranty support? Gonna guess it'd be easier said than done to even find a contact in many cases.
I tend to bounce around with the subject content I watch. Every time I bounce here I always find something interesting and enlightening. Thanks for that 👍🏽.
You are more than welcome and thank *you.*
Alright, I've got working ABL! Inspiration is far more valuable than any "IP". Thank you.
Prusa offered me part of a 3 BTC open contract to gangstalk you, but I defiantly say "NO" to the abusive practices. HONESTY is what is needed in the 3D printing community. We stand with DPT.
On a 3D printing discord a few people got offered BTC to mess with this guy. Dont know if it was Prusa. But yeah, crypto was being mentioned
This was a great follow up to the first version of this that you posted. Solid concept and I'm sure you'll nail down the fine tuning in no time.
Good job, dude.
FWIW, I like the Euclid Probe a lot better than the BLT. I've had 5 BLTs fail in as many years, each time costing me a lot of money in damaged print surfaces and new BLTs
this is why i buy the cheap 3d touch probes. they work and their like 15$. id like to support bltouch but 40$ is alot of money for something that will break eventually and sometimes they just dont work properly( i have 2 real bltouch sensors currently and honestly the 3d touch probes work better as far as just doing their job, the accuracy is off a slight bit but for 25$ less ill make do)
See??
THIS is why I love watching, and support where I can, Design Prototype Test!
Not only is this a big time K.I.S.S. part, it's got its roots all the way back to the humble hobbyest 3D printings' beginnings!😁
Please, never stop with your content.
I'ma lifer for sure!😋😁❤️
I like the fact you don't only are criticizing things and situations in the printing world(to do good) but you also have the brains to make things yourself! Good luck with the product.Grtz
Klicky is the way to go I don't know why Voron is the only one doing it. It's stupid simple and just works.
Annex is also using it, there's Quickdraw probe. Also, Sideswipe with mount controlled by servo is an option.
@@crawlerin I know who you are we have chatted in the voron discord before. Nice to see you here. I wish I had a zero and I would do the sideswipe for sure.
@@madeintexas3d442 Hey hello 🙂 Sideswipe definitely looks cool 😀I believe I saw other DIY printers like VzBoT using klicky too. After all, it makes sense when you want to make toolhead lighter in pursue of speeeeeeeeed, then you don't have to carry extra weight of sensor. Euclid probe of similar kind makes mounts for more printers too.
@@crawlerin it is simplicity at it's finest. I love how the magnets make the contacts for the switch. I'm glad others are using it too.
This is a terrific build idea. I got my stock ender3v2 for Christmas last year, and in a lucky coincidence my family bought me PETG instead of PLA for my first filament spool, so I had to learn some things pretty quickly. Haven't burnt out my feed tube yet, but did melt off my shroud, but still works okay. My first mod was updating the firmware (which is an ABSOLUTE MUST), and second was a side-spool holder. A couple comments about this video though: I would have liked if the model of the optic sensor was included in the graphic animation, to show where the sensing transition was, and also a little the explanation how the trigger point is at a constant, if indeterminate, offset from the bed, how that is adjusted in the firmware to create the z adjustments.
Interesting.
- There is a 3rd situation where Bl-Touch, or electromagnetic based sensing device won't work; in a strong magnetic field.
I made a super duper Delta printer using ball joint and magnets to eliminate slop. The field generated by the 6 magnets around the effector is strong enough to disrupt completely the weak little electro-magnet of the Bl-Touch.
- You would have less wobble if you had longer sleeve or even better 2 paced out guide holes.
- Can use a larger Allen key if wanted, just use a thin flag.
- need to package this in order to easily adapt to many hot head styles.
there is a bigger reason, you really dont want to use a off center probe on delta. regardless of it being bltouch or not.
Great video! I like the magnet implementation you did. Was kind of sceptic on last video because it needed human intervention but its all good now
I love this, but not just because it adds even more DIY to my machines, but because the housing can be even more versatile with a version that supports a BLTouch, a CRTouch or no touch sensor at all. If you would consider it, please add a pair of models that will increase the utility of this 'system'.
Nice build! A couple years ago i've spoted this type of "BLTouch" on a Brazilian 3D Printer. GTMax3D, is the commpany name. But, in his machine, the allen key was a little bigger, so the probe retraction is done lowering the Z on the bed itself.
Gonna be honest with you, the pinda works so much better than the bl touch my guy
I'm not your guy, and you are wrong. If it was such a great solution Prusa wouldn't be abandoning it with the new PrusaXL. I can already hear your reply " They need the analogue touch nozzle functionality so they can self align the different print heads. That's why the XL doesn't have a P.I.N.D.A. probe." Sure, that's a believable reason for the tool changer XL, but what about the single nozzle "regular" Prusa XL? Why are they forcing you to pay extra money for the nozzle touch sensor? I thought the P.I.N.D.A. worked perfectly. So, either your favorite company is A)Ripping you off and forcing you to buy something you don't need on the upcoming printer or B)Selling you inferior technology in the P.I.N.D.A. probe. Either way I don't understand how you can continue to be a fanboy for this company that obviously just wants your money and your continued quasi-religious devotion. The idea that someone could love this company with such intensity is so weird to me. Anyway, now that I've made this criticism it's likely there will be an announcement that the single nozzle PrusaXL will come with a P.I.N.D.A. Then, when I claim that my criticisms motivated the change there will be a bunch of comments telling me "You are so egotistical, you think Prusa sees your videos or reads your comments. Dude! They don't even know you exist. Get over yourself."
The best thing about 3D printers is making new custom stuff for 3D printers! Cool idea and thanks for publishing your design.
Please publish your start script as well for those of that use klipper... could be used to build a gcode macro in mainsail. Thanks for all your work! great job!
The biggest issue i have with this and all other bed leveling methods like the BLTouch etc, is that it does not know of the current nozzle height.
Every time is dismantle the hot extruder and put it together again the height was always different then before. For me the only right solution is to use the nozzle to measure the bed level.
Super concept.... But following the kiss princip... Why the chance from the switch ? Kliky probe Seem to Work like a charm
11:52 ..so good... Glad you are making videos again!
With the comments I did read, I did not see ' make the block the key sits in slide between 2 bars, oversize the block the key sits in and after printing sand the block to barely slide between the bars. Gorilla Lube is my favorite for moving parts since it ' gunks up ' less than WD40 and seems to work well on plastics long term ( I do mostly PLA and not seen an issue on my STARTT 3D printer upgrades yet ). Keeping it simple can also mean that the imaged block for the key does not need the full key embedded inside, it can be the top and the ' inner side ' in the block, the rest sliding inside a C or U channel guide. There are a lot of options to make it drop straight and repeatable by just forcing the upper area to only fit it. Similar to the ruler example, just opening your hand enough, it dropped straight down.
That wobble effect causing inaccuracy is why I opted to print and design a probe in the cnc surface probe style but adjusted down to the size of a BL Touch and using parts readily recyclable (probe tip is burned out CD drive's linear rod, pre-load spring also found in all drives as a vibration dampener). Even in a setup that guides the pins around the probe into their saddles in the housing, takes thoroughly accounting for that motion to get it right. My CAD constraints all look like programming functions at this point.
Definitely interesting probe. I've saw some similar one like Touch Mi. For safety i would make pin printable and not very strong specifically for cases when for some reason you forgot to retract it and it hits the bed or printed object. So pin will easily break without damage of head holder for example. Pin can be printed again so there won't be big damage from incident.
But what i think would be a winner in probes is that which will measure the offsets by nozzle. It's a really painful to set correct Z offset after changing the nozzle (or whole head). So probe which will measure bed and nozzle offset at the same time would be perfect.
A Wheatstone bridge strain sensor uses the nozzle as the probe, check hackaday article named ‘QUARTET OF SMD RESISTORS USED TO SENSE Z-AXIS HEIGHT’
@@iridiandot great idea! Unfortunately it's mostly for bowden system. Doing it with direct extruder will be more tricky as you have to invent some flexible mount for the whole extruder. May be strain gauge for the whole X rail can sense bending when nozzle touch the bed.
I have a couple of ideas:
1) maybe some adjustable rollers/bearings in the tube could help improve precision;
2) consider selling completed devices or parts kits on Etsy or something similar.
Very much looking forward to the next video. Great work.
I used Sharp optical switches for engine cam/crank position sensing with excellent results and reliability. Great choice. They have some with narrow apertures, might help some.
Also have a half baked idea of 2 magnets, one on probe, other rotates for park/release. One side will attract, other repels for slight spring action.
Yes! The slotted ones. Under $.80 online. Very sharp transition and if the interrupt or is knife edged (or very thin), the response is extremely accurate.
Did you happen to test the range on the bltouch with the same test?
So when you use it, you have to manually pull it down once to release it from the magnet, and at the end of the bed sensing cycle, you have the machine push the key back to the magnet, right?
The machine pulls it down also
Can't wait for the release.
to make it as tight as possible, I would make the hole a bit smaller, then use a drill bit to make it just the right size
you. are. amazing.
more please!!
Reminds me of the TouchMi probe which also uses an optical sensor.
BINGO! That is one great solution!
You know, you could make that 0.025mm closer to that sub-micron number by putting pieces of electrical tape over the round sensor hoke with a gap of about 35-50% of the diameter of the sensor hole. Also, the closer to the sensor side of the transmitter receiver pair you locate the interrupter, the more consistent and snappier the response.
You’ve probably already looked at most or all of these features, but I thought I’d throw-in on them for those super detail types (like me).
Thanks for what I think will prove to be one of the most innovative 3D printer hacks of this cycle….
Cheers, sir!
But that's exactly the point! Why would you bother with such an accuracy that you don't need here, yet there are still other problems not solved yet. With this design he is solving those problems, and gives a darn f* to unnecessary accuracy, that lot of people hooked on like they need to compensate something.
@@dekurvajo Practical or not, needed or not, every engineer strives for accuracy. It’s in our DNA. The fact that he resolves a set of other issues is completely laudable and appropriate to this idea. The fact that he’d like the probe action to be more accurate is equally laudable. Practicality, complexity and cost will likely swamp out many potential improvements, but he’s done his homework and has a nice solution.
I like the simple mechanism with the magnet. Great idea
Thank you so much for your videos and this one in particular. Keep up the good work!
Advocates supporting innovation, yet buys sus sensor from AliExpress.
And where should he buy the optical sensor? Which single company should be the only acceptable source?
@@perwestermark8920 First off, I don't recommend AliExpress for anything. The main reason is that it's a marketplace for counterfeits. That said, you can buy a genuine Sharp optical sensor from SparkFun, Adafruit, etc.
@@bernardtarver Yes, I don't recoment AliExpress either. But buying the sensor from yhem isn't really against innovation because the light sensors are commodity products, just like resistors.
Which means non-Sharp sensors are still genuine sensors.
But I do wonder if the light sensor might be an issue - looked like the readings changed with 0.005 mm for every single reading. So something is very much broken with the setup. Without that error, this sensor should have managed with a 10x better average result.
@@perwestermark8920 It's incorrect to put a height sensor in the same category as a resistor.
@@bernardtarver Height sensor? You mean light sensor. It was a light sensor he bought from AliExpress. A light sensor is a commodity product just as a resistor. It's only if there are very specific needs that there would be a reason to hunt the datasheets and buy a very specific sensor of a very specific brand.
No need for a magnet to retain the allen wrench in up position - just design a bayonet lug style slot in the body in which the wrench is dropped and retained by its own weight when not in use.
I´d use a 3mm linear rod and use two sintered brass bushings as a guide. But great to know that it would not even be necessary. Great idea for self deploying, kind of like an optical klicky probe. I admire the simplicity.
Quite interesting. I think it's similar to BFPTouch, but addition of magnets to keep probe retracted - is quite cool!
Awesomely simple, and works well. Thanks for sharing.
Well done! It’s clear that good design intrinsically tugs your soul, and improvements just have to come out. It’s great to see this, as opposed to pursuing mainstream, easy videos!
Looks nice, allthough it isnt really new.
The TouchMI also uses a magnet held pin paired with an optical sensor.
I credited the TouchMI in the description. I have never seen one in person and so I was not able to learn from it to develop my design. Also, the combination of features in my design and the sheer simplicity has never been done before: Optical switch + Allen Key + Magnet + guide hole + physical catch for deployment/retraction. I think this is the lowest cost bed probe that has ever been presented. So, wouldn't you agree that I have created something new?
@@DesignPrototypeTest I was just referring to the principle. Your design is of course new.
Cool. In fact there are examples of optical sensors being used in touch probes on Thingiverse from as early as 2017 that I've found. Might even be some some predating that. www.thingiverse.com/thing:2197895
I gave a thumbs up, just for the talk about the piracy of intellectual property to make knock offs. I'm so glad someone else talking the praises of using the original product brands.
To improve the consistency of the vertical movement I would hold the probe with a bi-stable flexure. That way it would not rely on gravity and you could eliminate the magnet. Likely you could eliminate the key as well and print the probe as part of the existing fan housing. I would also make a housing around the optical sensor to eliminate stray light.
Hey i am happy to see that you keep your unique work up! Don't forget to put your Patreon Links and other ref links into your description!
To eliminate maximum deviation, why not have a continuity circuit instead of an optical sensor? The Allen key (or any other hunk of metal) can rest on a metal pad. As it drops, the key loses contact, breaks the circuit. It seems like that would be more consistently accurate with no optics required. A rounded contact end will mitigate surface area contact on each drop ensuring less deviation. I could be wrong, but that should be more accurate.
it's great and it's true! Will impolement this in my next printers
Matthew, I cut you slack on your Cardano endorsement, but your love of the BLTouch really amazes me considering how problematic they are (i.e. failed pin retraction) and the cost. You might look into the Euclid probe and I think you’ll find a truly cost-effective and accurate bed height probe. Just my $0.023 worth (adjusted for inflation).
Cardano is in the Toilet along with the rest of Crypto. If I sold now, I would lose half of my money. Good thing I had always planned to hold for 10+ years. I think I'm coming along to Elon's way of thinking and liking DogeCoin now. The dirty secret of ETH and ADA is the central control. I didn't understand this when I bought ADA. Crypto should be free from manipulation by its creators. Power corrupts. We already have centralized currencies which are heavily controlled. Crypto is supposed to be the check and ballance.
RE Euclid Probe: Yeah, it's great. I haven't felt the need to make a video about the parking probe options for Voron printers because they are getting plenty of press already, and I haven't built a Voron myself. I did however make my own parking probe: ua-cam.com/video/CSEJdV_sgng/v-deo.html before I had ever seen the ones similar to the Euclid. If I gave it some though I might be able to figure out a mounting solution for a Euclid or Similar on the Ender 3 but I don't think it would be ideal. there is not enough movement overrun outside the bed on the Ender 3 so any solution is likely to subtract build volume.
Following for testing! Keep us posted!
it's so great you do this bltouch killer
Excellent video! You are a great contributor to our community. I have been thinking there has to be a better probe than the bltouch or inductive. Keep it up!
"Supporting thieves is immoral" - Holds up a Creality machine /SMF
I've had to put this to bed so many times. It gets boring. The Ender 3 is derivative of the Mendell Max. The Prusa i3 Mk.3 is the third variation of the third iteration of the Prusa Mendel. The original Mendel was developed by Dr. Ed Sells. Therefore, both the Prusa and the reality printers share a common ancestor. If the Ender 3 or the CR-10 is a clone then so is the Prusa i3 Mark 3.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I never said that the Prusa wasn't a derivative product. You are the one that is riding the high horse. Meanwhile publicly dragging other 3DP UA-camrs through the mud. Nice one!
Who did I drive through the mud? I called out CHEP for doing 5 minute science and not adequately understanding or if he understands not adequately explaining how beds warp when they are heated. I wouldn't classify that as dragging someone through the mud.
Mate, you took nearly 3 minutes to mansplain why Chuck doesn't do science, how his popularity doesn't make him right. In the process tying his name to what you dubbed "the dumbest comment in the history of comments" (paraphrasing here). And you just did it again. Notwithstanding that your MacGyver bed probe is a clever little hack... Get over yourself.
I'm not your mate. I don't know you and you don't know me. Don't pretend like you're my friend and then leave a comment like this. It's dishonest. Helpful criticisms are welcome but your comment is not positive/constructive. Given that 99% of my audience (and the 3D printing audience in general) is male, your usage of the word "mansplain" is incorrect. Even if you intended it to mean that I was being condescending in my explanation, not everyone has the information you have. Remember I'm talking to thousands of guys. I need to fully cover all aspects of any arguement I'm making so that we can be sure there is no misunderstanding. If you were insulted by me covering basic information...well that just shows a personality flaw of yours. It's not something that I did. Your final jab in this comment "Get over yourself" again shows your insecurities. I endeavor to show no ego in my videos. I don't even introduce myself on camera because it's supposed to be about the content not about me. I think you perceive of me as being more talented than you are and this makes you feel bad when you compare yourself to me. Why are you comparing yourself to me? I didn't make you feel bad. You made yourself feel bad. I don't deserve your animosity.
no way i'm buying a genuine BLTouch in poland. my parents work enough for me. $40 may not seem a lot, but that's at least two days of work where I live. the same reason i've only bought one genuine Arduino.
Very cool. But technically, you measured the precision rather than the accuracy of the probe. Precision is how close together are individual measurements of a single thing; accuracy is how close the average of those measurements are to the actual value.
Technically you are correct. The best kind of correct as Homer Simpson says. To expound I wish to point out that the accuracy is determined and adjustable by me. I can adjust the probe offset value in firmware until a very fine accuracy is achieved. I believe the "Standard Deviation" measurement is the appropriate measurement for accuracy in this context. Meaning that 68% of the time the actual distance measurement will be +/-.015307mm from reality. That seems pretty accurate to me
Hi, I found your project on hackaday. First of all, nice idea!
I noticed, by looking on your data at 10:17, that the measured position value is systematically increasing. If thats really the case, then your measurement accuracy is corrupted not by the probe design but by a component of your printer. For example "lost steps" could cause such problems. Reach back, if you might want support on this topic.
Best regards,
Andre
I've used the BL Touch Smart in a 55C chamber with no issues so far.
I just found your video. Did you ever finish the project and make a second video? I am looking for the update you mentioned. It looks really interesting. Hoping for more. Thanks. 😊
Creality makes their own version (CR touch), which may be a licensed 'copy'. Actually, not a copy, it is a bit improved with a metal probe and a better mounting system. But not any cheaper (in fact sometimes a buck more than the BL).
I still use the servo motor with end stop in the probe. 😅
I like the simplicity of your deployment method. I have been working on a touch sensor that uses a Nitinol wire actuator to deploy the probe but it is too complicated by far. I do use a piezoelectric sensor to detect contact on the touch sensor, along with a single underbed piezo sensor to detect nozzle contact and if the nozzle is clean. I will see if I can come up with a version using your "Allen key" method but I will continue with the piezo as it works well for me.
really awesome concept for an ABL. I bought myself a BLTouch and really love it, and honestly I didn't feel the price was too steep(also compared to some other "upgrades" people suggest). What are your reasons for ~$40 being to expensive, with most machines already costing a couple hundred to thousands of dollars.
I got the Microcenter Ender 3 Pro deal for $100 USD so a BLTouch would be almost half the cost of the machine
@@NiSE_Rafter i mean kind of... you said you got a deal, not really the actual cost of the machine, and the ender series is already fairly cheap. the BLTouch has worked great for almost full automation of my printer, so for you, if it is only half the cost of the rest of the machine, that also seems like a decent deal to me. I wish getting autopilot only cost half the price of my car :D
Nice revision. Did you credit the person you got the idea from?
Maybe if I was earning 5 Million dollars per month from someone else's work it would be an issue. If someone was out there earning that kind of ridiculous money from other people's ideas in "the community" that person would really be deserving of the hate/trolling that you're trying to bring to me.
@@DesignPrototypeTest it was a simple question that you've posed previously. I watched your video, liked it, couldn't remember if you said where you saw it and thought maybe you meant to note in the description but it got missed. No trolling or hate intended.
I'm used to getting trolled so I guess I misread the intentions behind your comment. The Alan key probe has been implemented previously back in the dawn of the reprap movement. You can find many versions of it on Thingiverse primarily used on Delta style printers. None of them have the magnet stowability that I came up with here. When I did this work I had never seen any solution that was the same as mine. After deciding to use an alan key I independently came up with the rest of this. As it turns out there is a French company that has a similarly functional pin based probe. That is the TouchMI that I talked about in the description but I didn't know that existed before I had completed this project. I've never earned a penny from this design. I did all this work and gave it away. I'm so tired of being beat up by the loser open source warriors who want to make me feel bad for innovating on 3D printers and hiding the fruits of my labor behind "a paywall." I make poverty wages for my efforts on this channel. I should just sell out and start accepting sponsorships and doing affiliate links.
@@DesignPrototypeTest When I first bought my Ender 3 I tried a few different shrouds, but none that had an effective built-in probe mount, they were more a modular design that looked bolted on as an afterthought, so your design is aesthetically pleasing. I've not seen a version with the optical sensor before (TouchMi as you pointed out has it..but again, "afterthought"), let alone integrated into one shroud. Some like modularity, some like all in one. For me it depends on the printer. On the Ender, once it's set, I only occasionally have clogged nozzles, so having an integrated shroud is a bigger positive for me. I'd use it if my ender were still more... ender. There was nothing wrong with it, I just like tinkering, so the Ender and my Tronxy are my perpetually changing machines.
Pretty awesome design.
Shopping around for an optical switch and I notice some of the ones with built-in amplifiers/schmitt triggers specifically mention temperature compensation. Makes sense, the photo-transistor would pickup thermal noise offsetting the trigger threshold. Something to watch out for.
Can you give me a citation? Would love to read it and get all the information for myself.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I dare not post a link, but search for a datasheet for any optical switch with a "built-in temperature compensation circuit" like EE-SX398 by Omron. Plenty of papers on temperature dependence of phototransistors and such. As I understand, the slit width and sensor area are much larger than the precision we are trying to achieve, so it is very much operating in the analog regime so where precisely the trigger fires will be quite important.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Found a good one. I'd post a link, but UA-cam. It's linked on my T-verse probe design/demo. "Technical Information for Photomicrosensors" comes up as first result (Omron). Figures 9 and 10 show temperature dependence of both LED and sensor with a 10% dropoff in light current from room temperature to 80C. If we assume the aperture width represents the transition from light to dark, 10% translates to a pretty big systematic error in height (which can be accounted for).
Thinking on this some more, it's probably not so bad. The sensor will saturate at high brightness, so fading out across the entire aperture width is not the problem. More likely it will stay on until the last little sliver of light disappears. So crossing the threshold will happen over a much shorter distance than the actual aperture width. Just crank up the brightness. Some sensors allow for bright pulsed light, too.
This is great! My original DPT direct drive mod is still holding up perfectly (even though I printed it in PLA) but I’d love to gain this functionality on my Ender 3.
I just got the crtouch and installed it and so far I love it ( I'm new to 3d printing). I do like your idea but, it is a little more than I want to take on. You feel pretty strongly about the knock off thing but, I have to wander why you got the switched off aliexpress (based in China) instead of a local electronic store.
There are no intellectual property rights in place for a LIMIT SWITCH.
Really a big thank's for your time for that design I wish I could install it on my Ender max at the place where the bltouch 😉
The slop of the sliding channel should not matter at all - the allen key is long so the angle of it can't change in a way that matters.
The error is likely on the light detection side. Not sure exactly why but I would like to see a plot of reading over time - if there is a temperature issue with opto-coupler because it seemed like there was a pattern to the error.
Every single new reading increased the z position with 0.005 mm, which indicates a systematic error. If something is slipping or if something heats up from the light sensor LED or the head or something. Without this systematic error, the result would have been about 10x better.
Make the hole a triangle, drill a hold him the putter most side, put a set screw through and back it off as soon as the Allan key drops freely. This could be a simple solution with minimal design change.
I like your thinking! I'll give it some thought and see if it makes sense to implement.
@@DesignPrototypeTest sorry, Autocorrect got the better of me on that last comment. What I meant to say was:
"Make the hole a triangle, drill a hole and tap one side, put a set screw through till it holds up the allen key, back it off and stop as soon as the Allan key drops freely. This could be a simple solution with minimal design change." With an allen key being 6 sided, it would make using a triangle hole line up just right. Hopefully this made your brain not bleed trying to read it.
Its wild how much people will try to disrupt you when your going your own way and refuse to pad your oppinion. Just ignore the people saying "no one likes a winer".... but complaining about intellectual property theft is not whining, its verry justified
Maybe some kind of standard dowel, or cheap straight shank tool like a drill would have the least slop and most circularity. Then a reamer can be used to create a smooth, accurate bore for a much tighter tolerance.
Nice, I want to replicate it for my CR-10, where do you connect the sensor???
While I have no experience with Prusa's pinda probe, induction probes like the one from TH3D work extremely well. For manual levelling CHEP has a great, cheap, reliable DIY solution. Then there's the "Klicky Probe" for Vorons. Good on you for home brewing, but I'd love to see you adapt the Klicky Probe for Ender 3 type clones.
my first thought when i saw the opening clips and the probing action i thought "damn, that's great. i want that!", i was already sold on it there. then it kinda lost me with all the talking which starts me skipping through the video for the info i want, since i already know a bit about the other probe options. but hey, i don't make videos like this, so who am i to tell you how to edit your videos. anyway, great job on this mod ! 🙂
tube shape with half moon dots (dot guide) on the 6 sides at the top and bottom of shaft for the only contact areas to the metal shaft. optional is a draft shaft or blown air for canned air nozzle to clear debree chaffing out of the shaft hole via a side open area. clip locking top design to allow allen to be removed and cleaned. optional design is use a hobbyist brass tube heat melt into the walls or glued into shaft area.
While I agree with you on the whole "Support the creator. Buy the original.", the number of Ender 3 clones appear infinite, come from so many reputable companies, and often appear in the same shops on the same shelf at competitive prices. Not all ctrl V ctrl C jobs are negative.
maybe this is a solution fits hex wrench in a PTFE tube ?
Thanks for sharing. The amount of learning information you share throughout the video, not just the prototype, is amazing. Respect. (Would this work on a Ender 5 Pro)?
Looking at videos of the Ender 5 pro, I'm 95% positive that this geometry will bolt onto that machine without issue.
"The cheapest, fastest, and most reliable components are those that aren't there" - Gordon Bell
I think the new nozzle switch autolevelling component is the best out of everything
very good i like it! and FWIW -+1 thou sounds to me like a plenty good enough accuracy for any typical fdm printers. but especially at such a low bom cost. really appreciated this and thanks for doing the video 👍👍
Thank for your useful video. I made one using optical sensor, SG90 mini servo and small aluminum parts almost 8 years ago. Your one is better, because servo has EMI issues (I guess so). I've started to use my 3D again and changed optical sensor with TCST2300. If you use it you may get better results. My results;
Mean: 0.036250 Min: 0.029 Max: 0.042 Range: 0.014 Standard Deviation: 0.004644
Mean: 0.040375 Min: 0.031 Max: 0.047 Range: 0.016 Standard Deviation: 0.005002
Mean: 0.040375 Min: 0.036 Max: 0.047 Range: 0.011 Standard Deviation: 0.003875
Wanderful man, wanderful channel, genius ideas. Make it simple
Love the projects :)
Did you say we could start printing the print head unit? Where might I find that file? I’m really excited to see you complete this. Cheers
Touch-Mi probe works on similar priciple, but with magnets.
I was going to use a BLTouch on my Kossel Mini but I didn't think about my magnetic push armswhen designing my effector. The magnets are too strong and too close so their magnetic field interferes with the BLTouch making it useless.
Now I have to design something else and was going to try and use an Allen key style. Just need to find the time to design something.
Great idea. I still have a delta printer with a Allen key type optical bed leveler. However I have to manually retract it.
I think you mean clicky switch. If it has an optical switch I would love to see a picture.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I don't know how to attach a photo to a comment but I used thing 605729 as a starting point.
Have you considered lining the hole for the probe with a short length of PTFE tubing?
Will the geometry be compatible with the direct drive mount for your Newbs/Print Farms Ender 3 mod? Thank you for sharing!
Yes, and even better.
Nice work! This is innovative.