From Robert Pape's second intro paragraph in his article in June issue of FA: "Since Hamas’s horrific attack last October, Israel has invaded northern and southern Gaza with approximately 40,000 combat troops, forcibly displaced 80 percent of the population, killed over 37,000 people, dropped at least 70,000 tons of bombs on the territory (surpassing the combined weight of bombs dropped on London, Dresden, and Hamburg in all of World War II), destroyed or damaged over half of all buildings in Gaza, and limited the territory’s access to water, food, and electricity, leaving the entire population on the brink of famine. Although many observers have highlighted the immorality of Israel’s conduct, ..." Who were these 37,000 people and how does he know the number? Pape is much more critical deep in the article about about the numbers of Hamas fighters [sic] killed 14,000 (Israel), 6,000-8,000 (Hamas), 10,000 (US), but over 37,000 "people" - sure "limited .... access to water and electricity" > yes, by stopping to provide it from Israel as Israel has no obligation to do so "brink of famine" - never materialized, has it? Again, it wasn't Israel obligation to feed Gazans "immorality of Israel conduct" - all you need to know about the views of the author of this piece of gaslighting. The whole argument about "winning hearts and minds" by drawing parallels with Vietnam, Iraq, erc. - bogus, you have a small totally brainwashed population, controlled by terrorists, who want to annihilate Israel, not build their own lives . "The group still enjoys tremendous support from Gazans, allowing militants to seize humanitarian supplies almost at will" Right, as if Hamas steal supplies not because the would kill anyone who would object but because of "tremendous support". And so it goes, penned by a distinguished UChicago professor. I would not be surprised if his students joined the encampment in support of Hamas, maybe even encouraged by him
You smell it from miles away, that the guy isn't a serious intellectual: In the first few minutes he ran down his credentials to then grandstand using pompous words. It is a completely sleazy trick to use the combined wight of bombs to compare it to other conflicts. How does it prove the indiscriminulity of the bombing? Using the number of bombs is similar sophistry but it doesn't stick because the numbers don't work in favor of the pro-Pal argument. And we dont hear any death-tolls anymore... Why is that? Maybe because the civilian death toll does not rise anymore at all. Or because even the UN can't bring itself to ham on about these very questionable numbers anymore. I lost a lot of respect for American elite humanities in academia. How can they allow themselves to argue in these negligent ways???
Israel gets paid enormous sums of money to deliver the water and food that Gaza needs. Israel isn't expected to do charity, it receives international aid for the goods it delivers to the occupied Palestinians. And Israel occupies the Palestinians. Israel is the occupying, colonial power. Israel colonizes the West Bank and imposes there a system of Apartheid, and it has turned Gaza into a huge prison camp. Yes, the Israelis have the obligation to deliver water to the occupied Palestinians. And the Lancet this past week puts the number of dead closer to 200,000. When this thing is over, the Israeli neo-fascists will have killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and you're doubting Hamas' 40,000 number?
37k is a low estimate and has not been updated, when you drop 2000 pound bombs and flatten the entire city don't tell me thousands dying doesn't make sense, read the lancet report the actual number is probably 187 k. Punishing populations is a war crime and against international law. Israel should be sanctioned but it's protected by the US. Every single report by all reputable organisations has told of famine, torture, executions and mass killings.
The Lancet estimates that neo-fascist, Apartheid Israel may have killed up to 200,000 Palestinians in Gaza. And you're still doubting the 38,000 number.
When someone keeps referring to himself as a "world expert", like Robert does many times here, you absolutely know that he is full of ... He is just using this platform to create a brand for himself.
He sounds better than Spencer. When comedians become military experts and want to teach military how to defend their job. You can’t destroy the tunnels by simply dropping 2,000 lbs pay loads without JDAM. In all my time as an Army infantry officer I have not once called in Air support and they drop 2,000 lbs bombs. John Spencer deployed twice. He is an expert only by name. I had NCOs that deployed more than him. His only job experience comes from learning and sitting in a schoolhouse.
Noam looks like a fool when he references Richard Spencer as an expert of anything, he is a paid shill for ukraine and israel and a micro internet celebrity who is BIG in twitter spaces, what is next?, use Ryan Mcbeth as a source for human rights, Destiny as an historian/political expert or Hasan Piker as sociology juggernaut?. This guy don't want to create a platform or a brand, he doesnt have a youtube channel and his footprint in twiiter is minimal.
@@brianhall8588”expert in name only”, how so? He is the chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point. Have you heard of West Point? He served 25 years as an infantry soldier with 2 tours in Iraq. And authored two books on modern urban warfare. What are your credentials?
"Focusing solely on aerial bombing and comparing it to other wars, rather than including the total tonnage of explosives such as artillery, is a misleading tactic. A more accurate comparison would consider the overall explosive tonnage used in each conflict."
@7:33 "This is the most horrific indiscriminate bombing campaigns in history" You SURE about that? Nothing in WWII standing out, like the firebombing of Tokyo, or the bombing of Berlin? Nothing in the Vietnam War, in Vietnam or Laos, with the use of napalm? Furthermore, he mentions that the majority of tunnels are still intact - yes, when the majority of tunnels are being used through a densely populated urban area, through schools, hospitals, kindergartens, universities, and UNRWA buildings, and you don't happen to have a magical map that shows you exactly where it all is, and is still being inhabited by tens of thousands of civilians who haven't evacuated and thousands of armed militants dressed as civilians, what kind of campaign do you you really expect to happen? Israel theoretically COULD just indiscriminately bomb the place in hopes of getting all tunnels, as it could have also theoretically wiped out all of Gaza on October 8, but didn't. For someone calling himself a military expert he sure seems to have an oddly specific and biased way to start this interview Furthermore, his argument in the @55:00 area is that Israel is solely responsible for the fact that Hamas is so deeply entrenched in the Gazan population, or that Hezbollah is deeply entrenched in the Lebanese population, but doesn't once mention the entire consequence of the Arab Spring, which brought a massive resurgence of Islamic fundamentalism and anti-Israel agenda, nor does he mention UNRWA which has proven to have extensive connections to Hamas and Hezbollah leaders, as well as its funding and education being an major source of anti-Israel hatred being taught in the new generation of Palestinians. Time after time Israel has shown UNRWA being a direct source of funding for Hamas (exclusively, not just Gaza) as well as there being extensive evidence that UNRWA-hired educators have entire curricula focused on seeding martyrdom and anti-Israel/anti-Jew sentiments in Palestinian children. Why should Israel be responsible for the actions of a democratically elected regional government for an area it has no law or jurisdiction over? Should the US have been solely responsible for the Afghani population regarding their ties to the Taliban? After all, the Afghanis had their own government. Same for Hamas and the Gaza Strip - Israel had no hand in what actually happens in Gaza since 2005, and with the presence of a multitude of foreign-aid and foreign educational organizations inside Gaza and the West Bank I feel like it's actually more reasonable to the UN and those education programs for the increase of Hamas ties (in the shape of violent, martyrdom-based culture) than it is to blame Israel. There was no direct "occupation" of Gaza between 2005 and 2007 when Israel imposed the full blockade. The blockade happened because in the span of 2 short years, Hamas violently took control of the Gaza Strip in a bloody civil war against Fatah, had kidnapped an Israeli soldier - Gilad Shalit in 2006 - and had fired dozens of short range rockets into Israeli towns. I don't fully agree with the statement that Israel's blockade "forced" Hamas to fight back, it had already been fighting back since before the blockade even happened.
I started to listen with utter interest, eager to learn something. I started to doubt when he repeated for the fourth time that he's the world expert in x and y. He revealed to be dishonest by the time he was faced with his morally charged wording of what happens. Great job Noah holding him to account.
This turned into a more good faith meaningful conversation than I had anticipated, I'm dizzy from simultaneously agreeing with pretty much everything both of you said. The real problem is with how the article is being read and understood as undermining the tremendous efforts and successes of the IDF. Unfortunately, the overall trajectory since at least 1982 has been toward radicalization. The goal of Hamas since 1988 No peace, no 2 state solution continues to prevail. It's much easier to prevent or to destroy than to build. Hamas doesn't pretend to aspire to build anything at all.
Noam you HAVE to bring on Dan Schueftan of the Univeristy of Haifa to get to the heart of it all. He talks about the problem with the Palestinian culture (specifically the story they teach their children), which the west NEVER addresses. He's been warning the world about all of this (including Putin) for decades. His interview with Quillette was so good
Do you have any comment about what Jews, and perhaps more specifically Israel teaches it children? It is true that Palestinian children grow up understanding the occupation, dispossession, Nakba and subjugation. All true. However, Israeli children learn that Israel was a noble enterprise, a return to the 'homeland' and that Palestinians are a dangerous and unwelcome presence. In fact, a murderous people.
These are contentious issues, and I want to applaud both Noam and Robert for having a civil discussion. A few thoughts: - I would have liked to hear Robert talk more about how he thinks Israel could foster peace. He mentioned that he thought we achieved that in the Middle East by a combination of funding some players while attacking others. Did that really work? In the case of the US, my impression was that we ultimately just left the countries to the Islamists - in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc. Maybe that's what Robert means - that by attacking Isis in Mosul but letting Islamists take Afghanistan and Iraq, the US reached the least bad outcome available. But what would that look like for Israel and Palestine? Israel obviously does work with non-hostile Palesitinian groups wherever it can, but that often gets them murdered as "collaborators," even for distributing food received from Israel. - I have strong doubts about Robert's argument that the war against Hamas is worse than the alternatives. Of course, Robert's correct that it would have been much better to prevent the 10/7 attack in the first place, but that's the problem with playing defense against terrorists - they only have to find you asleep at the switch once, and you get a 9/11 or 10/7, and no human system can defend 100%. Once 10/7 had already happened, I'm skeptical that a limited response (let's say targeted assassinations of some Hamas officials and a peace proposal) would have been better in terms of discouraging terrorism. In my opinion, it would have made Hamas look like winners - does everyone remember how excited the anti-Israel crowd was, with all the talk of heroic resistance and "now I can breathe!" If Israel had done nothing and just emptied its prisons to get the hostages back, then I think Hamas would have all the recruits it could handle. As it is, Israel has killed or captured probably more than 10,000 experienced Hamas fighters, shut down the tunnels to Egypt, and made Hamas look like monsters willing to sacrifice their own people. I don't doubt that Hamas is more popular in many places than they were on 10/6, but 10/6 is not available any more, and I suspect that they are *less* popular than if they were collecting prisoners and treasure for the hostages and not paying any price.
for a lot of the questions he was rumbling instead of giving direct answers. the problem with this guy just like many others they take data and information which is mostly true and use it to create a narrative to fit their ideological viewpoint..
The sunni and the syiah coming together on Israel is a major strategic failure for Israel. Maronite Christians: Israel had strong ties with the Maronite Christian militias, particularly the Phalange (Kataeb) party. This alliance was part of Israel's broader strategy to counteract Palestinian armed groups operating in Lebanon and the influence of Syria.
He's like a magician with his swerving around actual meanings. His narrative appears more obvious than he's trying to let on. Not sure about 'world expert', more like 'weird expert'.
it is not possible for the palestinians to support violent terrorism anymore then they already do. we must teach the love of peaceful lawful resistance and condemn terrorism.
Hi Noam, really love your show and the range of guests you have on (Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein just to name a couple - wow!). I'm an Australian Jew and I'm a bit of a leftist / socialist so we likely disagree on quite a few things haha, but I still really enjoy hearing your takes, I think you try to be fair and challenge your own biases, and you come across as a very likeable person. All the best, keep doing your thing 😊
"I'm a world expert. I'm not against Israel, but Israel is very very naughty, they use more bombs than in three cherry-picked episodes of another war 80 years ago, the first one in which air force bombers were used... and hey, did I say I'm a world expert?" This interviewee is on the verge of pathetic...
Only a highly educated expert can argue in such illogical, muddied ways. And I say this as an highly educated expert myself. This is really sad. Excellent work Noam.
How convenient that Noam you don’t know a lot about the settlement history. Please answer this question: if the military occupation in the West Bank is solely to protect Israel against attacks why does Israel needs settle its people in the West Bank?
He has almost the same speech and position as Finkestaine; the difference is that he’s a bit less arrogant and more careful on preying Hamas. They both argue the same point: the reason for this conflict is the INVASION and COLONIZATION of Israel.
The reason is to dismantle Hamas so the people in southern Israel can go back to their homes. Israel left Gaza in 2005 and destroyed the settlements they had built. Why would they want to go back?
Disgraceful "I am not attributing motive" Noam explains punishment implies motive "I am using words that will go down in history as what happened here" "Attackers rely on euphemisms" This guy is confused. On one hand he's saying that he's not attributing motives and on the other hand he's saying that attackers use fancy words to hide their motives.
I wish the host would stop interrupting the expert. He's ruining the continuity of his thought. It's a shame for an otherwise fascinating presentation.
Another academic lost in his own ideological fog-bank. He spends more time imagining facts - past, present and future, than referring to actual fact. Well done again Noam.
2/3 of the way through this, still haven’t heard: -if they’re bombing is so indiscriminate and they dropped so many why are the casualties so low is civilian casualty rate conservatively one of the best in history? -What should Israel or any other country have done, and how does the civilized world discourage rather than encourage and reward, slaughtering civilians, taking hostages, and using human shields.
The man is spitting counter factuals such as this one “34,000 dead civilians represents about 2% of Gaza’s entire population and that means that one in fifty Palestinans in Gaza are now dead, a horrendous death toll!”😂😂😂 He had me going there for a minute. Your question brought me back to reality. Norm didn’t challenge him on this though. Maybe he doesn’t know, but in urban warfare in densely populated areas, isn’t 50% civilian casualty rates common? I’ll look it up but it is at least ten times what they’ve seen in Gaza and the figures are said to be highly inflated anyway.
@@RonMi95 what gave you that impression? He seems to have a long career dealing with the subjects brought up, he certainly lacked for little information, he frequently had facts and especially figures as well as historical examples. What do you believe the deficiency is?
@@thanatosdriver1938 @taleiran put it very rigorously: "From Robert Pape's second intro paragraph in his article in June issue of FA: "Since Hamas’s horrific attack last October, Israel has invaded northern and southern Gaza with approximately 40,000 combat troops, forcibly displaced 80 percent of the population, killed over 37,000 people, dropped at least 70,000 tons of bombs on the territory (surpassing the combined weight of bombs dropped on London, Dresden, and Hamburg in all of World War II), destroyed or damaged over half of all buildings in Gaza, and limited the territory’s access to water, food, and electricity, leaving the entire population on the brink of famine. Although many observers have highlighted the immorality of Israel’s conduct, ..." Who were these 37,000 people and how does he know the number? Pape is much more critical deep in the article about about the numbers of Hamas fighters [sic] killed 14,000 (Israel), 6,000-8,000 (Hamas), 10,000 (US), but over 37,000 "people" - sure "limited .... access to water and electricity" > yes, by stopping to provide it from Israel as Israel has no obligation to do so "brink of famine" - never materialized, has it? Again, it wasn't Israel obligation to feed Gazans "immorality of Israel conduct" - all you need to know about the views of the author of this piece of gaslighting. The whole argument about "winning hearts and minds" by drawing parallels with Vietnam, Iraq, erc. - bogus, you have a small totally brainwashed population, controlled by terrorists, who want to annihilate Israel, not build their own lives . "The group still enjoys tremendous support from Gazans, allowing militants to seize humanitarian supplies almost at will" Right, as if they steal supplies not because the would kill anyone who would object but because of "tremendous support". And so it goes, penned by a distinguished UChicago professor. I would not be surprised if his students joined the encampment in support of Hamas, maybe even encouraged by him"
@@thanatosdriver1938 To summarize: The guy starts off with always quoting his credentials to then grandstand and whine about the combine weight of the bombs. Anybody, who argues, that Israel is doing indiscriminate bombing campaigns must disprove a) the extremely low Civilian-Combatant-Ratio b) The series of examples, where Israel to there disadvantage gave time and organized civilian evacuations c) the extensive warning given to bombing target areas He fails to do that while in stead trying to make his point with some circumstantial evidence. It is a fact, that militaries around the world look at the IDFs conduct in this war and taking notes. No-one expected the death toll to be as low as it is and especially the civilian death toll not really rising for the past few months. It is all alarmism that distracts from arguments and discussions one can have about this conflict. The guys is right in one point: the current government is not well positioned and does not conduct the war in Israels best interest. The problem though is, that it caves to much to American pressure. The US ha more often than not prevented Israel to do the correct thing (e.g. go into rajah in late January) because of this studṕid alarmism. Who discusses war in a serious academic manner does not cry and whine about 2000lb bombs or makes misleading comparisons.
Given the platform of this interview, its poor quality is not surprising. Specifically, I think it would be more interesting to hear Pape's thoughts in full than to have these constant interruptions. Arguing without letting the other person finish a statement is cowardly.
Nom, the information by Robert Page fascinating. But Nom you consistently interrupted Robert with important information. This is my perspective as a American Jew with strong support for Isreal
Why is he talking about the West Bank? That is like a separate society. I thought we were discussing Gaza. Go watch Fauda. The Israelis talk about how much easier it is to go into West Bank than Gaza. And if the West Bank wanted to try something why didn't they on Oct.7?
That was uncomfortable and unwelcome listening for our host! He did not like the facts laid out before him. It sort of exposed his (and many commentators here) their instinctive denial reflex.
But his one point at about 55 mins in stands. Islamic extremism aside (which I have no doubt can foment terrorism on its own), young men are all... all, every one, looking for adventure, challenges, difficult things to overcome. Pick your poison. We all pick ours when we're young men, and luckily, in most places in the developed world not in conflict, there are lots of less damaging channels for this energy. However, had I felt like I was trapped, no opportunities, knew people who had been killed by someone I could possible physically reach, and at 15-22 or so someboy had handed me weapons or a plan to F those people up... I mean, I can't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident I know I'd be in.
The only way to gain peace for Israelis and Palestinians is justice and reparations . Britain must pay reparations and property compensation to the Palestinians and their descendants who were displaced by the establishment of the Jewish state. Israel must pay reparations to Palestinians who were pushed off their land and out of their homes after the establishment of the Jewish state. Any crimes against Palestinians or against Israelis that have gone unpunished must be investigated and the perpetrators brought before an international tribunal. This includes the Israelis charged with crimes against humanity and the Palestinians charged with crimes against humanity. Only after justice has been served against criminals, including Irgun and Jewish terrorist organizations, can talks begin about the establishment of a governable Palestinian state, a state that exists on contiguous territory where there is freedom of travel and international trade.
'That's why I pointed it out, it wasn't in the piece." There's alot missing from this guys analysis. Hes worried about cherry picking? Tell him to stop looking past the mirror.
I noted the correction and updated the audio version. I read it hastily. As I was reading it, it surprised me that I hadn't remembered the huge number. Thank you.
This conversation bothers me more and more as time goes by. In his FA article, Robert Pape starts with condemning Hamas' attack on October 7, and then switches to "immorality of Israel conduct". No mention of Hamas after October 7? They didn't return the hostages and surrender, didn't they? Hamas kept fighting from the tunnels under the civilian areas and from houses, mosques, schools, hospitals, there is no end to war crimes that Hamas has been committing every day. None of it is of any interest to the esteemed academic, although Hamas' behavior surely explains Israel's conduct of the war, the choice of targets, and the methods. This affable UChicago professor is a moral, intellectual, and professional fraud. I don't know if he is related to another morally depraved historian-fraud Ilan Pappe, but they are oh so similar in their disdain for any facts that don't fit their anti-Israel narrative.
There is a talk about the military supremacy and the mite of which has the upper hand in an event of a war between Iran and Isreal , this isn’t at all about power .! for Iran has always had the geografical positioning that if Iran makes hormouz inpassable by sinking a few vessels the world economy and heart beat of trade would be so severely crippled so bad that it may not be repairable
How many did Israel help relocate to relative safety again? How many weeks did they give as lead time to get out of the North before invading? What alternate reality is this expert coming from?
When people evacuate civilians from a war zone, it's considered morally good. When Jews do it, it's considered "forcible displacement" and "ethnic cleansing." These antisemitic ghouls are so obvious with their bias.
Iillii....have you truly grasped the totality of the destruction in Gaza? Have you witnessed the targeted killing of unarmed Gazans as they walk through so-called safe zones Have you seen the children playing table football dismembered by a drone delivered missile? Have you fully understood the indiscriminate carpet bombing of 90 percent of Gazan housing? Did no-one tell you about the total destruction of glasshouses where Gazans grew their food? Didn't you see the Israel reported story of how Israel identifies and targets suspected Hamas associates? ' Hello Daddy' is the name of the system - it attacks suspected targets when they return home to be with their wife and children. Whole apartment blocks are destroyed to kill a possible Hamas operative. Does Israel press not report on the hundreds of Israelis who attack aid trucks to ensure Gazans starve? What about number of children orphaned, siblings and parents torn to pieces. And children who have lost limbs. Or multiple limbs? What I am saying is that Israel is on a rampage of revenge and rage. People in Israel, possibly you also, simply feel nothing for the massive slaughter they are undertaking...many feel a sense of satisfaction. Many, including the Israeli cabinet have called for a nuclear weapon to be used to finish off Gaza. And it is my proposition that most Israelis would wish for the total erasure of Arabs across the lands which Zionist dream of being part of the Jewish state. Honestly...where is your head and heart with when thinking about the perfect future? Are you part of the slaughter, or do you turn the other way and wait for the desired outcome?
When comedians become military experts and want to teach military experts how to do their job. You can’t destroy the tunnels by simply dropping 2,000 lbs pay loads without JDAM. In all my time as an Army infantry officer I have not once called in Air support and they dropped a 2,000 lbs bomb in a urban area. John Spencer was a NCO that went green to gold and only deployed twice to low intensity areas. He is an expert only by name. I had NCOs that deployed more than him. His only job experience comes from learning and sitting in a schoolhouse. I have never seen a population be forced to move so many times. They have the population imprisoned in Gaza. Warn them then they bomb the exit roads, then they the safe area, then they the population again and then… Many of these evacuees had to move 7-8 times. They destroyed every hospital, every school, most buildings. I have never seen such a thing. The casualty numbers are underreported.
Noam, how many children have been killed in Gaza? Regardless of calling them collateral damage or not, do you think that the average Palestinian will see it that way? Again, every fibre of your being is gradping desperately at rationalizations and justifications, but if Isreal eeally wanted to be the " good guys" they would not do what they are doing, no matter what provocation, they would have to take responsibility for finding a way, no matter how difficult, to solve the issue without those deaths , on this scale. No matter how sincerely you want to belive it, the powers that be in Isreal have made it explicitly clear that they could care less about the average Palestinian child.
you are so horrible. you think that it is ok to topple a building of 80 apartment killing hundreds of innocent people is ok if you want to knock out a tunnel? you say it as if its just math as if tens of thousands of people are not dying from this. this is so sick.
As someone who is on the pro Palestine side and who only watches their Israel war content, please know that I strongly doubt this claim and will need to ask for evidence. Now if you want to see genocide cheerleaders go watch the Ayn Rand Center UK’s livestreams. I will make the same statement under oath
Noam brings on someone with an opposing view and has a discussion with them where he potentially disagrees with how things are being framed or interpreted. At least he is willing to speak with people with different views. Your opinion really means nothing when you repeat cheap talking points and buzz words. I’m sure your contribution is much more nuanced than Noam’s…
It is indeed disheartening. I bring on a word-class expert, and I give him every opportunity to defend his case. Please refer me to the people on the other side who do the same.
@@comedycellarclips Noam, I'm a fan of the show and greatly appreciate you bringing on a wide range of viewpoints. I listen as a podcast instead of watching here. I just want to give a small suggestion here since it seems you look at the comments. When you have people on with opposing views, it would be helpful if you start by letting the other person give a summary of the article before you get into your points/critiques. I think it will be easier on the listener/viewer, and I think it will make your guests more comfortable too:)
There is a talk about the military supremacy and the mite of which has the upper hand in an event of a war between Iran and Isreal , this isn’t at all about power .! for Iran has always had the geografical position that if Iran makes hormouz inpassable by sinking a few vessels the world economy and the world heart beat of trade would be so severely crippled that it may not be repairable
From Robert Pape's second intro paragraph in his article in June issue of FA:
"Since Hamas’s horrific attack last October, Israel has invaded northern and southern Gaza with approximately 40,000 combat troops, forcibly displaced 80 percent of the population, killed over 37,000 people, dropped at least 70,000 tons of bombs on the territory (surpassing the combined weight of bombs dropped on London, Dresden, and Hamburg in all of World War II), destroyed or damaged over half of all buildings in Gaza, and limited the territory’s access to water, food, and electricity, leaving the entire population on the brink of famine.
Although many observers have highlighted the immorality of Israel’s conduct, ..."
Who were these 37,000 people and how does he know the number? Pape is much more critical deep in the article about about the numbers of Hamas fighters [sic] killed 14,000 (Israel), 6,000-8,000 (Hamas), 10,000 (US), but over 37,000 "people" - sure
"limited .... access to water and electricity" > yes, by stopping to provide it from Israel as Israel has no obligation to do so
"brink of famine" - never materialized, has it? Again, it wasn't Israel obligation to feed Gazans
"immorality of Israel conduct" - all you need to know about the views of the author of this piece of gaslighting.
The whole argument about "winning hearts and minds" by drawing parallels with Vietnam, Iraq, erc. - bogus, you have a small totally brainwashed population, controlled by terrorists, who want to annihilate Israel, not build their own lives .
"The group still enjoys tremendous support from Gazans, allowing militants to seize humanitarian supplies almost at will" Right, as if Hamas steal supplies not because the would kill anyone who would object but because of "tremendous support".
And so it goes, penned by a distinguished UChicago professor. I would not be surprised if his students joined the encampment in support of Hamas, maybe even encouraged by him
You smell it from miles away, that the guy isn't a serious intellectual: In the first few minutes he ran down his credentials to then grandstand using pompous words. It is a completely sleazy trick to use the combined wight of bombs to compare it to other conflicts. How does it prove the indiscriminulity of the bombing?
Using the number of bombs is similar sophistry but it doesn't stick because the numbers don't work in favor of the pro-Pal argument.
And we dont hear any death-tolls anymore... Why is that? Maybe because the civilian death toll does not rise anymore at all. Or because even the UN can't bring itself to ham on about these very questionable numbers anymore.
I lost a lot of respect for American elite humanities in academia. How can they allow themselves to argue in these negligent ways???
😊 2:24
Israel gets paid enormous sums of money to deliver the water and food that Gaza needs. Israel isn't expected to do charity, it receives international aid for the goods it delivers to the occupied Palestinians. And Israel occupies the Palestinians. Israel is the occupying, colonial power. Israel colonizes the West Bank and imposes there a system of Apartheid, and it has turned Gaza into a huge prison camp. Yes, the Israelis have the obligation to deliver water to the occupied Palestinians. And the Lancet this past week puts the number of dead closer to 200,000. When this thing is over, the Israeli neo-fascists will have killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and you're doubting Hamas' 40,000 number?
37k is a low estimate and has not been updated, when you drop 2000 pound bombs and flatten the entire city don't tell me thousands dying doesn't make sense, read the lancet report the actual number is probably 187 k. Punishing populations is a war crime and against international law. Israel should be sanctioned but it's protected by the US. Every single report by all reputable organisations has told of famine, torture, executions and mass killings.
The Lancet estimates that neo-fascist, Apartheid Israel may have killed up to 200,000 Palestinians in Gaza. And you're still doubting the 38,000 number.
When someone keeps referring to himself as a "world expert", like Robert does many times here, you absolutely know that he is full of ... He is just using this platform to create a brand for himself.
He sounds better than Spencer. When comedians become military experts and want to teach military how to defend their job. You can’t destroy the tunnels by simply dropping 2,000 lbs pay loads without JDAM. In all my time as an Army infantry officer I have not once called in Air support and they drop 2,000 lbs bombs. John Spencer deployed twice. He is an expert only by name. I had NCOs that deployed more than him. His only job experience comes from learning and sitting in a schoolhouse.
Noam looks like a fool when he references Richard Spencer as an expert of anything, he is a paid shill for ukraine and israel and a micro internet celebrity who is BIG in twitter spaces, what is next?, use Ryan Mcbeth as a source for human rights, Destiny as an historian/political expert or Hasan Piker as sociology juggernaut?.
This guy don't want to create a platform or a brand, he doesnt have a youtube channel and his footprint in twiiter is minimal.
This guy is very creepy
@@brianhall8588”expert in name only”, how so? He is the chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point. Have you heard of West Point? He served 25 years as an infantry soldier with 2 tours in Iraq. And authored two books on modern urban warfare. What are your credentials?
"Focusing solely on aerial bombing and comparing it to other wars, rather than including the total tonnage of explosives such as artillery, is a misleading tactic. A more accurate comparison would consider the overall explosive tonnage used in each conflict."
@7:33 "This is the most horrific indiscriminate bombing campaigns in history" You SURE about that? Nothing in WWII standing out, like the firebombing of Tokyo, or the bombing of Berlin? Nothing in the Vietnam War, in Vietnam or Laos, with the use of napalm?
Furthermore, he mentions that the majority of tunnels are still intact - yes, when the majority of tunnels are being used through a densely populated urban area, through schools, hospitals, kindergartens, universities, and UNRWA buildings, and you don't happen to have a magical map that shows you exactly where it all is, and is still being inhabited by tens of thousands of civilians who haven't evacuated and thousands of armed militants dressed as civilians, what kind of campaign do you you really expect to happen? Israel theoretically COULD just indiscriminately bomb the place in hopes of getting all tunnels, as it could have also theoretically wiped out all of Gaza on October 8, but didn't.
For someone calling himself a military expert he sure seems to have an oddly specific and biased way to start this interview
Furthermore, his argument in the @55:00 area is that Israel is solely responsible for the fact that Hamas is so deeply entrenched in the Gazan population, or that Hezbollah is deeply entrenched in the Lebanese population, but doesn't once mention the entire consequence of the Arab Spring, which brought a massive resurgence of Islamic fundamentalism and anti-Israel agenda, nor does he mention UNRWA which has proven to have extensive connections to Hamas and Hezbollah leaders, as well as its funding and education being an major source of anti-Israel hatred being taught in the new generation of Palestinians. Time after time Israel has shown UNRWA being a direct source of funding for Hamas (exclusively, not just Gaza) as well as there being extensive evidence that UNRWA-hired educators have entire curricula focused on seeding martyrdom and anti-Israel/anti-Jew sentiments in Palestinian children. Why should Israel be responsible for the actions of a democratically elected regional government for an area it has no law or jurisdiction over? Should the US have been solely responsible for the Afghani population regarding their ties to the Taliban? After all, the Afghanis had their own government. Same for Hamas and the Gaza Strip - Israel had no hand in what actually happens in Gaza since 2005, and with the presence of a multitude of foreign-aid and foreign educational organizations inside Gaza and the West Bank I feel like it's actually more reasonable to the UN and those education programs for the increase of Hamas ties (in the shape of violent, martyrdom-based culture) than it is to blame Israel.
There was no direct "occupation" of Gaza between 2005 and 2007 when Israel imposed the full blockade. The blockade happened because in the span of 2 short years, Hamas violently took control of the Gaza Strip in a bloody civil war against Fatah, had kidnapped an Israeli soldier - Gilad Shalit in 2006 - and had fired dozens of short range rockets into Israeli towns. I don't fully agree with the statement that Israel's blockade "forced" Hamas to fight back, it had already been fighting back since before the blockade even happened.
Robert is the king of obfuscation and speculation. One such is example is his claim about famine.
Stop interrupting when he is talking
I started to listen with utter interest, eager to learn something. I started to doubt when he repeated for the fourth time that he's the world expert in x and y. He revealed to be dishonest by the time he was faced with his morally charged wording of what happens. Great job Noah holding him to account.
I wish Noam would let him talk and stop interrupting.
This turned into a more good faith meaningful conversation than I had anticipated, I'm dizzy from simultaneously agreeing with pretty much everything both of you said. The real problem is with how the article is being read and understood as undermining the tremendous efforts and successes of the IDF. Unfortunately, the overall trajectory since at least 1982 has been toward radicalization. The goal of Hamas since 1988 No peace, no 2 state solution continues to prevail. It's much easier to prevent or to destroy than to build. Hamas doesn't pretend to aspire to build anything at all.
Noam you HAVE to bring on Dan Schueftan of the Univeristy of Haifa to get to the heart of it all. He talks about the problem with the Palestinian culture (specifically the story they teach their children), which the west NEVER addresses. He's been warning the world about all of this (including Putin) for decades. His interview with Quillette was so good
I'll look into him.
Ditto. I suggested him awhile back.
@@comedycellarclipsSeconded re. Dan Scheuftan. ✋🏼
Unfortunately Israelis have been brainwashed into becoming a zombie death cult.
Do you have any comment about what Jews, and perhaps more specifically Israel teaches it children?
It is true that Palestinian children grow up understanding the occupation, dispossession, Nakba and subjugation.
All true.
However, Israeli children learn that Israel was a noble enterprise, a return to the 'homeland' and that Palestinians are a dangerous and unwelcome presence. In fact, a murderous people.
I wish these conversations had more views.
These are contentious issues, and I want to applaud both Noam and Robert for having a civil discussion. A few thoughts:
- I would have liked to hear Robert talk more about how he thinks Israel could foster peace. He mentioned that he thought we achieved that in the Middle East by a combination of funding some players while attacking others. Did that really work? In the case of the US, my impression was that we ultimately just left the countries to the Islamists - in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc. Maybe that's what Robert means - that by attacking Isis in Mosul but letting Islamists take Afghanistan and Iraq, the US reached the least bad outcome available. But what would that look like for Israel and Palestine? Israel obviously does work with non-hostile Palesitinian groups wherever it can, but that often gets them murdered as "collaborators," even for distributing food received from Israel.
- I have strong doubts about Robert's argument that the war against Hamas is worse than the alternatives. Of course, Robert's correct that it would have been much better to prevent the 10/7 attack in the first place, but that's the problem with playing defense against terrorists - they only have to find you asleep at the switch once, and you get a 9/11 or 10/7, and no human system can defend 100%.
Once 10/7 had already happened, I'm skeptical that a limited response (let's say targeted assassinations of some Hamas officials and a peace proposal) would have been better in terms of discouraging terrorism. In my opinion, it would have made Hamas look like winners - does everyone remember how excited the anti-Israel crowd was, with all the talk of heroic resistance and "now I can breathe!" If Israel had done nothing and just emptied its prisons to get the hostages back, then I think Hamas would have all the recruits it could handle. As it is, Israel has killed or captured probably more than 10,000 experienced Hamas fighters, shut down the tunnels to Egypt, and made Hamas look like monsters willing to sacrifice their own people. I don't doubt that Hamas is more popular in many places than they were on 10/6, but 10/6 is not available any more, and I suspect that they are *less* popular than if they were collecting prisoners and treasure for the hostages and not paying any price.
I mean, it was not that israeli defence was "asleep", israeli forces were busy in the west bank, supporting the illegal settlement
for a lot of the questions he was rumbling instead of giving direct answers. the problem with this guy just like many others they take data and information which is mostly true and use it to create a narrative to fit their ideological viewpoint..
that was hard to watch, the moderator is so clearly idologically influenced that it really negativley impacts this debate
You're going to have to have him and John Spencer on together now. And I can't wait...
The sunni and the syiah coming together on Israel is a major strategic failure for Israel.
Maronite Christians: Israel had strong ties with the Maronite Christian militias, particularly the Phalange (Kataeb) party. This alliance was part of Israel's broader strategy to counteract Palestinian armed groups operating in Lebanon and the influence of Syria.
Taping Thursday
This dude logic when discussing human shields like it's just two sides of the same coin is fucking crazy
He's like a magician with his swerving around actual meanings.
His narrative appears more obvious than he's trying to let on.
Not sure about 'world expert', more like 'weird expert'.
@@rezzessionYou're a weird expert.
I guess it's on brand to follow up a fully satisfying conversation with a fully aggravating one. Never change Norm ❤️
The targets are rarely to get a single person, they are a legal response to areas from which rockets were or are fired from.
it is not possible for the palestinians to support violent terrorism anymore then they already do. we must teach the love of peaceful lawful resistance and condemn terrorism.
Hi Noam, really love your show and the range of guests you have on (Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein just to name a couple - wow!).
I'm an Australian Jew and I'm a bit of a leftist / socialist so we likely disagree on quite a few things haha, but I still really enjoy hearing your takes, I think you try to be fair and challenge your own biases, and you come across as a very likeable person.
All the best, keep doing your thing 😊
Thank you!!!!
Noam is becoming one of the best interviewers. I love watching him call out th bs .
locals bonded with hamas, willing to be used as human shields? then, they are not "innocent civilians."
"I'm a world expert. I'm not against Israel, but Israel is very very naughty, they use more bombs than in three cherry-picked episodes of another war 80 years ago, the first one in which air force bombers were used... and hey, did I say I'm a world expert?"
This interviewee is on the verge of pathetic...
Was the "world expert" correct, when he said that Hamas is stronger today?
israel is a cruel and brutal illegal occupier that has stolen Palestinian land and massacred them for decades. Shameless.
This guy is a clown lol. World expert on being an idiot. Just goes to show you the decline of academia.
Only a highly educated expert can argue in such illogical, muddied ways. And I say this as an highly educated expert myself. This is really sad. Excellent work Noam.
How convenient that Noam you don’t know a lot about the settlement history. Please answer this question: if the military occupation in the West Bank is solely to protect Israel against attacks why does Israel needs settle its people in the West Bank?
They don't.
He has almost the same speech and position as Finkestaine; the difference is that he’s a bit less arrogant and more careful on preying Hamas. They both argue the same point: the reason for this conflict is the INVASION and COLONIZATION of Israel.
The reason is to dismantle Hamas so the people in southern Israel can go back to their homes. Israel left Gaza in 2005 and destroyed the settlements they had built. Why would they want to go back?
“I am the world’s top expert on air power, now let’s just assume Israel is bombing indiscriminately.”
Alright then, BS duly dismissed 🤷♂️
Disgraceful
"I am not attributing motive"
Noam explains punishment implies motive
"I am using words that will go down in history as what happened here"
"Attackers rely on euphemisms"
This guy is confused. On one hand he's saying that he's not attributing motives and on the other hand he's saying that attackers use fancy words to hide their motives.
Congrats on the sponsor guys! Love to see you finally getting some recognition.
Stumbled upon this interview accidentally and really enjoyed it. Really sharp questions and good conclusions, Noam.
I wish the host would stop interrupting the expert. He's ruining the continuity of his thought. It's a shame for an otherwise fascinating presentation.
Another academic lost in his own ideological fog-bank. He spends more time imagining facts - past, present and future, than referring to actual fact.
Well done again Noam.
2/3 of the way through this, still haven’t heard:
-if they’re bombing is so indiscriminate and they dropped so many why are the casualties so low is civilian casualty rate conservatively one of the best in history?
-What should Israel or any other country have done, and how does the civilized world discourage rather than encourage and reward, slaughtering civilians, taking hostages, and using human shields.
The man is spitting counter factuals such as this one “34,000 dead civilians represents about 2% of Gaza’s entire population and that means that one in fifty Palestinans in Gaza are now dead, a horrendous death toll!”😂😂😂 He had me going there for a minute. Your question brought me back to reality. Norm didn’t challenge him on this though. Maybe he doesn’t know, but in urban warfare in densely populated areas, isn’t 50% civilian casualty rates common? I’ll look it up but it is at least ten times what they’ve seen in Gaza and the figures are said to be highly inflated anyway.
The real numbers will be closer to 150 000/200 000 thousands. Conservative my ass. Monster.
I have no idea why Noam is being so combative this time.
Because the guy is full of it
@@RonMi95 what gave you that impression? He seems to have a long career dealing with the subjects brought up, he certainly lacked for little information, he frequently had facts and especially figures as well as historical examples. What do you believe the deficiency is?
@@thanatosdriver1938 @taleiran put it very rigorously: "From Robert Pape's second intro paragraph in his article in June issue of FA:
"Since Hamas’s horrific attack last October, Israel has invaded northern and southern Gaza with approximately 40,000 combat troops, forcibly displaced 80 percent of the population, killed over 37,000 people, dropped at least 70,000 tons of bombs on the territory (surpassing the combined weight of bombs dropped on London, Dresden, and Hamburg in all of World War II), destroyed or damaged over half of all buildings in Gaza, and limited the territory’s access to water, food, and electricity, leaving the entire population on the brink of famine.
Although many observers have highlighted the immorality of Israel’s conduct, ..."
Who were these 37,000 people and how does he know the number? Pape is much more critical deep in the article about about the numbers of Hamas fighters [sic] killed 14,000 (Israel), 6,000-8,000 (Hamas), 10,000 (US), but over 37,000 "people" - sure
"limited .... access to water and electricity" > yes, by stopping to provide it from Israel as Israel has no obligation to do so
"brink of famine" - never materialized, has it? Again, it wasn't Israel obligation to feed Gazans
"immorality of Israel conduct" - all you need to know about the views of the author of this piece of gaslighting.
The whole argument about "winning hearts and minds" by drawing parallels with Vietnam, Iraq, erc. - bogus, you have a small totally brainwashed population, controlled by terrorists, who want to annihilate Israel, not build their own lives .
"The group still enjoys tremendous support from Gazans, allowing militants to seize humanitarian supplies almost at will" Right, as if they steal supplies not because the would kill anyone who would object but because of "tremendous support".
And so it goes, penned by a distinguished UChicago professor. I would not be surprised if his students joined the encampment in support of Hamas, maybe even encouraged by him"
@@thanatosdriver1938 To summarize: The guy starts off with always quoting his credentials to then grandstand and whine about the combine weight of the bombs. Anybody, who argues, that Israel is doing indiscriminate bombing campaigns must disprove
a) the extremely low Civilian-Combatant-Ratio
b) The series of examples, where Israel to there disadvantage gave time and organized civilian evacuations
c) the extensive warning given to bombing target areas
He fails to do that while in stead trying to make his point with some circumstantial evidence.
It is a fact, that militaries around the world look at the IDFs conduct in this war and taking notes. No-one expected the death toll to be as low as it is and especially the civilian death toll not really rising for the past few months. It is all alarmism that distracts from arguments and discussions one can have about this conflict.
The guys is right in one point: the current government is not well positioned and does not conduct the war in Israels best interest. The problem though is, that it caves to much to American pressure. The US ha more often than not prevented Israel to do the correct thing (e.g. go into rajah in late January) because of this studṕid alarmism.
Who discusses war in a serious academic manner does not cry and whine about 2000lb bombs or makes misleading comparisons.
@@thanatosdriver1938 Somehow my answers vanish from here. Dont understand why
At minute 1:23:00 he suggests no more settlements in the west bank. He should say never ever. That builds confidence
the guy knows his stuff...Seemed Non partisan, sober and Real no placating Just genuine expertise. Thanks Noam.
any accounting for gazans killed by errant hamas rockets?
Given the platform of this interview, its poor quality is not surprising. Specifically, I think it would be more interesting to hear Pape's thoughts in full than to have these constant interruptions.
Arguing without letting the other person finish a statement is cowardly.
You tell him Norm
He is an expert on historical bombing campaigns. He is definitely not an expert on what current Palestinians think.
Nom, the information by Robert Page fascinating. But Nom you consistently interrupted Robert with important information. This is my perspective as a American Jew with strong support for Isreal
"I'm impressed by how informative your videos are. With better thumbnails and SEO, your channel could grow much faster."
Why is he talking about the West Bank? That is like a separate society. I thought we were discussing Gaza. Go watch Fauda. The Israelis talk about how much easier it is to go into West Bank than Gaza. And if the West Bank wanted to try something why didn't they on Oct.7?
What’s the other sample of terrorism attacks under an occupation?
That was uncomfortable and unwelcome listening for our host!
He did not like the facts laid out before him. It sort of exposed his (and many commentators here) their instinctive denial reflex.
But his one point at about 55 mins in stands. Islamic extremism aside (which I have no doubt can foment terrorism on its own), young men are all... all, every one, looking for adventure, challenges, difficult things to overcome. Pick your poison. We all pick ours when we're young men, and luckily, in most places in the developed world not in conflict, there are lots of less damaging channels for this energy.
However, had I felt like I was trapped, no opportunities, knew people who had been killed by someone I could possible physically reach, and at 15-22 or so someboy had handed me weapons or a plan to F those people up... I mean, I can't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident I know I'd be in.
Hamas is at the negotiating table giving up condition after condition
What condition did they give up?
It is interesting - as a study of a disturbed character.
The only way to gain peace for Israelis and Palestinians is justice and reparations . Britain must pay reparations and property compensation to the Palestinians and their descendants who were displaced by the establishment of the Jewish state. Israel must pay reparations to Palestinians who were pushed off their land and out of their homes after the establishment of the Jewish state. Any crimes against Palestinians or against Israelis that have gone unpunished must be investigated and the perpetrators brought before an international tribunal. This includes the Israelis charged with crimes against humanity and the Palestinians charged with crimes against humanity.
Only after justice has been served against criminals, including Irgun and Jewish terrorist organizations, can talks begin about the establishment of a governable Palestinian state, a state that exists on contiguous territory where there is freedom of travel and international trade.
'That's why I pointed it out, it wasn't in the piece."
There's alot missing from this guys analysis.
Hes worried about cherry picking? Tell him to stop looking past the mirror.
25 people died in the Ma'alot massacre (not 100) , 100 hostages were taken.
Ugh, you're right. I'll correct it.
I noted the correction and updated the audio version. I read it hastily. As I was reading it, it surprised me that I hadn't remembered the huge number. Thank you.
You never let your guests finish their sentence
Wow. i rather enjoyed this. Thank you Noam.
i wish the interviewer would stop interrupting and bein smug.
timecode?
I question someone who calls themself an authority and can’t pronounce the word ‘euphemism.’
This conversation bothers me more and more as time goes by.
In his FA article, Robert Pape starts with condemning Hamas' attack on October 7, and then switches to "immorality of Israel conduct". No mention of Hamas after October 7? They didn't return the hostages and surrender, didn't they? Hamas kept fighting from the tunnels under the civilian areas and from houses, mosques, schools, hospitals, there is no end to war crimes that Hamas has been committing every day. None of it is of any interest to the esteemed academic, although Hamas' behavior surely explains Israel's conduct of the war, the choice of targets, and the methods.
This affable UChicago professor is a moral, intellectual, and professional fraud. I don't know if he is related to another morally depraved historian-fraud Ilan Pappe, but they are oh so similar in their disdain for any facts that don't fit their anti-Israel narrative.
There is a talk about the military supremacy and the mite of which has the upper hand in an event of a war between Iran and Isreal , this isn’t at all about power .! for Iran has always had the geografical positioning that if Iran makes hormouz inpassable by sinking a few vessels the world economy and heart beat of trade would be so severely crippled so bad that it may not be repairable
Is this Sam Talentts fsther?
"Expodentially"
Robert "I am not saying " Pope ... What exactly is this guy arguing????
yes she did.
THIS GUY IS DELUDED
Noam, analysis doesn’t signify agreement.
How many did Israel help relocate to relative safety again? How many weeks did they give as lead time to get out of the North before invading? What alternate reality is this expert coming from?
When people evacuate civilians from a war zone, it's considered morally good. When Jews do it, it's considered "forcible displacement" and "ethnic cleansing." These antisemitic ghouls are so obvious with their bias.
None of what you say matters nor does it tell the complete story…
Iillii....have you truly grasped the totality of the destruction in Gaza?
Have you witnessed the targeted killing of unarmed Gazans as they walk through so-called safe zones
Have you seen the children playing table football dismembered by a drone delivered missile?
Have you fully understood the indiscriminate carpet bombing of 90 percent of Gazan housing?
Did no-one tell you about the total destruction of glasshouses where Gazans grew their food?
Didn't you see the Israel reported story of how Israel identifies and targets suspected Hamas associates? ' Hello Daddy' is the name of the system - it attacks suspected targets when they return home to be with their wife and children. Whole apartment blocks are destroyed to kill a possible Hamas operative.
Does Israel press not report on the hundreds of Israelis who attack aid trucks to ensure Gazans starve? What about number of children orphaned, siblings and parents torn to pieces. And children who have lost limbs. Or multiple limbs?
What I am saying is that Israel is on a rampage of revenge and rage. People in Israel, possibly you also, simply feel nothing for the massive slaughter they are undertaking...many feel a sense of satisfaction. Many, including the Israeli cabinet have called for a nuclear weapon to be used to finish off Gaza.
And it is my proposition that most Israelis would wish for the total erasure of Arabs across the lands which Zionist dream of being part of the Jewish state.
Honestly...where is your head and heart with when thinking about the perfect future? Are you part of the slaughter, or do you turn the other way and wait for the desired outcome?
When you say there is no choice but genocide. Then you are lost
Even as someone on the pro-Palestine side, I have to ask how you can be sure alternatives exist
When comedians become military experts and want to teach military experts how to do their job. You can’t destroy the tunnels by simply dropping 2,000 lbs pay loads without JDAM. In all my time as an Army infantry officer I have not once called in Air support and they dropped a 2,000 lbs bomb in a urban area. John Spencer was a NCO that went green to gold and only deployed twice to low intensity areas. He is an expert only by name. I had NCOs that deployed more than him. His only job experience comes from learning and sitting in a schoolhouse.
I have never seen a population be forced to move so many times.
They have the population imprisoned in Gaza. Warn them then they bomb the exit roads, then they the safe area, then they the population again and then…
Many of these evacuees had to move 7-8 times. They destroyed every hospital, every school, most buildings.
I have never seen such a thing. The casualty numbers are underreported.
noam is smart and honest. it seems everyone who opposes him is either only one of these qualities, or neither.
What a stupid comment. He should shut up and listen the answer to the questions. First time see him. Noam is parroting Zionist talking points.
Thank you Noam
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Noam, how many children have been killed in Gaza? Regardless of calling them collateral damage or not, do you think that the average Palestinian will see it that way?
Again, every fibre of your being is gradping desperately at rationalizations and justifications, but if Isreal eeally wanted to be the " good guys" they would not do what they are doing, no matter what provocation, they would have to take responsibility for finding a way, no matter how difficult, to solve the issue without those deaths , on this scale.
No matter how sincerely you want to belive it, the powers that be in Isreal have made it explicitly clear that they could care less about the average Palestinian child.
ku guys are the best! The lady should marry me!
I don’t know him but it’s gotta be the master of talking without saying anything
Wait! Where's Dave Juskow?!
Ugh. Recited ads from the same dozen or so companies who advertise on podcasts everywhere. Worth it for the chump change?
LOL, it was not my idea. I think you're right.
Most experts are full of shit. They should be ignored
the "expert" is a simp. he blithely tends his little academic garden, oblivious to military necessity, oblivious to reality.
"eupheNisms"? huh?
Great job Noam! This guy was the one that was on a rant and did not listen to your thought provoking questions!
Kinda of sensitive topic to shill on
you are so horrible. you think that it is ok to topple a building of 80 apartment killing hundreds of innocent people is ok if you want to knock out a tunnel? you say it as if its just math as if tens of thousands of people are not dying from this. this is so sick.
Comedy cellar won't talk about Hannibal directive
Actually we're trying to get the Ha'aretz reporter.
The sooner you do the best...we need to know.Israel is flawed like all governments in the west@@comedycellarclips
@@comedycellarclipsget Max Blumenthal the Greyzone reported on this month's ago. Israel's secrets are secrets no more. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Comedy cellar became genocide cheerleaders
As someone who is on the pro Palestine side and who only watches their Israel war content, please know that I strongly doubt this claim and will need to ask for evidence. Now if you want to see genocide cheerleaders go watch the Ayn Rand Center UK’s livestreams. I will make the same statement under oath
Noam brings on someone with an opposing view and has a discussion with them where he potentially disagrees with how things are being framed or interpreted. At least he is willing to speak with people with different views. Your opinion really means nothing when you repeat cheap talking points and buzz words. I’m sure your contribution is much more nuanced than Noam’s…
It is indeed disheartening. I bring on a word-class expert, and I give him every opportunity to defend his case. Please refer me to the people on the other side who do the same.
@@comedycellarclips Noam, I'm a fan of the show and greatly appreciate you bringing on a wide range of viewpoints. I listen as a podcast instead of watching here. I just want to give a small suggestion here since it seems you look at the comments. When you have people on with opposing views, it would be helpful if you start by letting the other person give a summary of the article before you get into your points/critiques. I think it will be easier on the listener/viewer, and I think it will make your guests more comfortable too:)
Says that dude who supports a genocidal jihadist movement.
There is a talk about the military supremacy and the mite of which has the upper hand in an event of a war between Iran and Isreal , this isn’t at all about power .! for Iran has always had the geografical position that if Iran makes hormouz inpassable by sinking a few vessels the world economy and the world heart beat of trade would be so severely crippled that it may not be repairable