I have 12 trees planted in a 20 by 20 area on one side of my yard. They are small but thriving and fruiting. More fruit then our family can eat. The bigger trees like citrus plum, apple we give more space.
Thanks for posting. Going to be putting in a few trees as spring arrives and this clarified a few issues. Love what you're doing, and the fact you share. Keep it up!
Glad to hear we could help give you some ideas with your upcoming orchard. We've had a lot of folks ask us about fruit tree spacing, so we wanted to cover as many options as we could.
Wonderful rain yesterday and today. We got an inch and a half. I got to skip a round of irrigation! My daughter was telling me that the park was watering this morning after the massive rain fall. I told her that most of these systems are just on automatic schedules and that they don't take rain in to account. They are not as water conscious as some of our farmers like you and Lori! Some of my trees are probably too close so I will have to prune heavily. I just wanted a lot of variety and couldn't hold back.
Hey Alan! Glad to hear you're still seeing the rain. I think you've got us beat with the monsoon season so far, but to see consistent rainfall is sure a great sign! As for those close plantings, it's just a matter of maintenance. I know how much you keep up with maintaining that garden of yours, so I'm sure they will continue to thrive.
Yeah, that's always the catch when it comes to spacing trees. If you're going to plant intensively you'll need to manage the same way, because they'll try to get bigger each year!
Wish I had space for trees. Stuck in suburbia with a sticky HOA. The Backyard is dedicated to my garden so the only real space I gave is on the west side of the house. Not sure if fruit trees other than citrus would make it over there with the reflected heat from the house and walkway. Going to give it a go anyway and see what thrives.
We know just how you feel with this one. Our first house was on a 5,500 sq. ft lot and we somehow managed to squeeze 13 fruit trees on it without setting off the HOA police. It's one of the many reasons we ended up moving out of the city, but you may find you can still get a tree or two going where you have the space. The main issue with the side of the house will be the limited amount of sunlight, but you may be ok with citrus.
Thank you for great info! Planning our orchard and evening though I use staggered placement for flower farming I had not even thought about it for my fruit trees! Thanks!
Glad you found this one useful. Sounds like you already have a good idea how to maximize space on a smaller scale, so just pushing the numbers out a bit!
Great info! We are on 3/4 of an acre HOA lot, so not much I can do in the front yard. But squeezed in around 70 fruit in the backyard over the last 3 yrs, so very tight spacing and I am starting to see to workload of keeping them trimmed.
Wow, that's a heck of an orchard you have there. It will be some work to keep the larger trees from taking over, but you'll have quite the backyard food forest to show off!
That’s OK, Duane, we all have mornings like that. It’s just past noon and I’m still a little blurry :) Much thanks for this one because it’s nice to know memory serves, if a little blurry, haha. Everything is thriving. It’s spectacular, the Arizona I remember from years ago. The mesquite bloomed 3 times! The Pakistan mulberry shot up from 4 feet to about ten. Amaranth, Merlot and Tarahumara, came up from seed lost over 18 months ago. Nope, I didn’t plant any this year. Thanks to the birds, it’s now all over. I hope the Rush Peas grow well. They make a good cover and rabbits prefer the leaves to even beans and peas. You kids do nice work! Walk in His beauty
Hey Martin! I can't believe your comment actually stayed up here this time! It is really amazing to see the desert spring to life with just a little bit of rain. Even better to see volunteers from your many planting seasons coming up with no labor on top of that. Here's to many more days of rainfall this year!
6:55 "They are notorious for growing slow and producing well." That sounds like it's good. Did i miss something? Thanks for the video. I want to finally get trees in.
Hey Daniel. Glad you enjoyed this one. We figure it's more for folks who have not started planting trees yet, so thanks for hanging in there with this one!
I’d love to see a 10-20 year plan for planting on your farm. Something that shows the overhead map with the long term goal. Love your efforts, thanks for sharing!
Hey Krissi. Wow, that is a FANTASTIC question and I'm not sure I have a good answer yet. What you see on the farm now is as far as our initial planning prepared us for. At this point we're taking a step back to see where the farm business is dictating we spend more time and expand.
Looks good. Check out the channel Permaculture Orchard. The guy interplants fruiting shrubs to replace the need for trunk painting. Nice way to lesson the work, while stacking harvests. Drop some pollinator attractors (preferably native), and you'll be on your way to a pretty low maintenance system. Cheers.
We have 4 seasons, summer, winter, spring, autumn. During summer temperatures range between 29 degrees Celsius and 35 but winter is between 19 and 28. We experience quite some heavy rains in summer though unpredictable sometimes they are very low. Botswana 🇧🇼 is my country a few kms away from South Africa 🇿🇦
@@Ofentse3101 ah ok. Your temperatures are much more moderate than ours here. Our summer temps are as high as 51 C and Winters can be as low as -6 C. Your weather is almost ideal for growing many crops.
The trees are looking awesome folks! When would it be a good time to take some cuttings from my neighbors Mulberries to root out and plant? Would it be probably this winter? I rooted all my figs in February 2020 that I got from some folks down near you.
Hey there Dan! Usually winter is the best time for cuttings, but we're testing some summer cuttings right now and it's too early to tell whether or not they're going to take. There is budding on the first one we potted up, so we'll see.
I like your farm design which shows that lots of care has been put into it for the benefit of a good crop. I have some land in AZ also but am just starting out and plan to do the exotics and getting idea of how its done. I did not notice much tilling and suspect you are using the desert sand as is; with mulch from what I can see. Great video it has helped me already. I'll keep checking in. How many acres are there?
We are on 6 acres here, but we're only working about half of that so far. We use the native soil for the vast majority of our plantings. Hence the mulch and a lot of different livestock to naturally increase the fertility over time.
I wish we had the space for full spacing but we don't. I squeezed in 25 fruit trees in a 60 sq meter space (10m x 6m). Lots of double planting and smaller gaps. More work, but we will get more variety over quantity which is what we want. I will say about that full sun, not every fruit tree needs full sun all the time. Our apples and stone fruit are planted so during the warm months they have full sun, but when they are asleep the house causes them to be in full shade.
Hey Matthew. That's a solid amount of production for that space and that's the key. If you plant closer together you'll just need to manage them a bit more to ensure they have what they need to thrive.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm Set and forget would be easier, plus we have multi grafts that require monthly attention. But I think long term the benefits will outweigh the negatives.
Hey Dave. We do have 2 persimmon trees, 1 fuyu and 1 chocolate. We don't have any paw paw trees as they are VERY difficult to grow here in AZ. The mix of soil and weather is a bit too much for their liking!
I was exposed to the spindling method some 30 years ago in AZ by these two German dudes that came through town. I recall their focus was time to first fruit by year two. Failed trees were less of a loss due to time to replant. Not suggesting this for you but am wondering if you've seen this. Thenks and best wishes with your place.
Hmm, I haven't seen or heard of that before. We generally don't allow trees to fruit for the first 2 years so they have time to get their roots well established. Some trees, like most citrus, won't fruit for the first few years either way.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm Thanks for the reply. Each tree was planted 2' on center with just enough to walk between the rows. The new growth was kept to six branches that I think were clipped to horizontal wire trellises at a max of 8' high. LOL sounds torturous. Like I said the production was nearly full in the second year. There seems to be some info on the goog about it now. The per acre yeilds were ridiculous. No ladders for harvest. Probably lots of labor. Always wanted to try it. I grow tomatoes now commercially where I plant determinates in a 3" grid. It puts the plants in to a competitive stress. They look sick and leggy but the production is insane. This is how Hunts grows tomatoes in Canada of all places. The yeilds are over 50 tons/acre. Your place looks wonderful by the way. Best wishes.
@@wearemilesfromnowhere4630 ok yes, I've seen something similar with some of the Honeycrisp apple orchards. Amazing to see the production on such a small space.
Great question Hosoi and we're doing the best we can trying to find something that fits the bill. The biggest challenge we face here is the constant drought conditions we find ourselves in. Even our desert adapted trees, which usually have at least some green on them going into summer, looked completely dead until our monsoon rains hit. Until this year, that was even hard to come by!
Hey Vito. No, we probably won't try mango. It's difficult at best for folks in the city with occasional frosty nights, but we're 5-6 degrees cooler out here. Our 20 degree temps would kill a full grown mango outright!
There are many factors that determine how much space you give between trees. For us the ideal spacing is 16' for semi dwarf trees and 30' for full size trees. However, many folks use less spacing and keep the trees pruned to fit their space.
If you plant close together for cross pollination then the tree closest to the equator will dominate the one behind it. Northern hemisphere the southern tree will dominate, southern hemisphere the northern tree will dominate. You had it right with east and west placing maybe set them on a north east south west alignment in northern hemisphere and north west south east alignment for southern hemisphere could be a better idea.
Great points on this one G M. Having them off set would actually be the best way to get the double planting accomplished without forsaking the growth of one tree over the other.
I'm in North Hemisphere and did north west and south east for the trees where I planted the pairs close together (5-6 feet) for a backyard orchard hedge and for pollination. I hope this works. We'll see. I was thinking that that the SE tree would get morning to midday sun and the NW one would get mid morning to afternoon. The plan was to keep them pruned in summer as shown via Dave Wilson backyard orchard techniques. I would minimize the branches between the pairs. There are currently 3 existing plum varieties and 6 recently added interspecific varieties I'm trying out (plumcot, aprium, pluerries) to see if they'll do well in our zone (chill hours a concern for 1 tree). I only have one acre mostly backyard and the HOA has been pretty lenient on the backyard, but they're picky on what is seen in the front yards.
Most of our semi-dwarf trees are 16' apart in the row and each row is about 12' apart, so with the offset in planting it gives at least 16' in any direction from each trunk. Assuming we allow it to grow into the rows between of course. With that we can allow each tree to grow to full size horizontally for ease of harvest while maintaining the maximum amount of production. Hopefully that makes sense.
Oh goodness, I would not have any idea. It varies so much from year to year and also from one variety to another. Is there a specific fruit you're curious about?
You got it. The varieties we grow thrive in full sun as do most fruit trees. Tropical trees is where you may find issues in Arizona and that's one of several reasons we don't grow them on the farm.
I have 12 trees planted in a 20 by 20 area on one side of my yard. They are small but thriving and fruiting. More fruit then our family can eat. The bigger trees like citrus plum, apple we give more space.
That's a lot of production in that small space Jesse. What do you have growing in that area?
Even Though I live in south of France found this very helpful as I embark on planting some more fruit trees. Thank you!
Hey there Paul. Glad you found this one helpful. If you have any questions as you get that orchard up and running, please shoot them over!
Thanks for posting. Going to be putting in a few trees as spring arrives and this clarified a few issues. Love what you're doing, and the fact you share. Keep it up!
Glad to hear we could help give you some ideas with your upcoming orchard. We've had a lot of folks ask us about fruit tree spacing, so we wanted to cover as many options as we could.
Wonderful rain yesterday and today. We got an inch and a half. I got to skip a round of irrigation! My daughter was telling me that the park was watering this morning after the massive rain fall. I told her that most of these systems are just on automatic schedules and that they don't take rain in to account. They are not as water conscious as some of our farmers like you and Lori!
Some of my trees are probably too close so I will have to prune heavily. I just wanted a lot of variety and couldn't hold back.
Hey Alan! Glad to hear you're still seeing the rain. I think you've got us beat with the monsoon season so far, but to see consistent rainfall is sure a great sign! As for those close plantings, it's just a matter of maintenance. I know how much you keep up with maintaining that garden of yours, so I'm sure they will continue to thrive.
Exactly what we needed to know. Thank you!
Glad this was useful for you guys. We've had a lot of questions about fruit tree spacing, so we wanted to cover as many options as we could.
Excellent video. I seen overcrowding waaay to often when I did landscape maintenance. Not everyone thinks of size at maturity.
Yeah, that's always the catch when it comes to spacing trees. If you're going to plant intensively you'll need to manage the same way, because they'll try to get bigger each year!
Wish I had space for trees. Stuck in suburbia with a sticky HOA. The Backyard is dedicated to my garden so the only real space I gave is on the west side of the house. Not sure if fruit trees other than citrus would make it over there with the reflected heat from the house and walkway. Going to give it a go anyway and see what thrives.
We know just how you feel with this one. Our first house was on a 5,500 sq. ft lot and we somehow managed to squeeze 13 fruit trees on it without setting off the HOA police. It's one of the many reasons we ended up moving out of the city, but you may find you can still get a tree or two going where you have the space. The main issue with the side of the house will be the limited amount of sunlight, but you may be ok with citrus.
You can do espalier pruning to control size and shape.
Thank you for great info! Planning our orchard and evening though I use staggered placement for flower farming I had not even thought about it for my fruit trees! Thanks!
Glad you found this one useful. Sounds like you already have a good idea how to maximize space on a smaller scale, so just pushing the numbers out a bit!
Beautiful trees, vines and bushes. TFS
Hey Cindy. Glad you enjoyed this one!
Great info! We are on 3/4 of an acre HOA lot, so not much I can do in the front yard. But squeezed in around 70 fruit in the backyard over the last 3 yrs, so very tight spacing and I am starting to see to workload of keeping them trimmed.
Wow, that's a heck of an orchard you have there. It will be some work to keep the larger trees from taking over, but you'll have quite the backyard food forest to show off!
That’s OK, Duane, we all have mornings like that. It’s just past noon and I’m still a little blurry :)
Much thanks for this one because it’s nice to know memory serves, if a little blurry, haha.
Everything is thriving. It’s spectacular, the Arizona I remember from years ago. The mesquite bloomed 3 times! The Pakistan mulberry shot up from 4 feet to about ten. Amaranth, Merlot and Tarahumara, came up from seed lost over 18 months ago. Nope, I didn’t plant any this year. Thanks to the birds, it’s now all over.
I hope the Rush Peas grow well. They make a good cover and rabbits prefer the leaves to even beans and peas. You kids do nice work! Walk in His beauty
Hey Martin! I can't believe your comment actually stayed up here this time! It is really amazing to see the desert spring to life with just a little bit of rain. Even better to see volunteers from your many planting seasons coming up with no labor on top of that. Here's to many more days of rainfall this year!
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm May it rain!
6:55 "They are notorious for growing slow and producing well." That sounds like it's good. Did i miss something?
Thanks for the video. I want to finally get trees in.
I suppose a "but" instead of "and" would have been more appropriate there. They are notorious for growing slow, but they produce well! 😉
The trees are looking amazing. Great info on your tree spacing and thank you for sharing.
Hey Daniel. Glad you enjoyed this one. We figure it's more for folks who have not started planting trees yet, so thanks for hanging in there with this one!
I’d love to see a 10-20 year plan for planting on your farm. Something that shows the overhead map with the long term goal. Love your efforts, thanks for sharing!
Hey Krissi. Wow, that is a FANTASTIC question and I'm not sure I have a good answer yet. What you see on the farm now is as far as our initial planning prepared us for. At this point we're taking a step back to see where the farm business is dictating we spend more time and expand.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm makes sense! Your giving me a lot of inspiration for our little urban AZ plot!
@@kmdc333 glad to hear it. You'll be amazed at everything you'll be able to grow, even in an urban setting!
was waiting to hear from you
thanks for posting and sharing
Glad you enjoyed this one. We needed to get this question answered for a few folks out there!
Second time watching this video again very impressive set up kudos
Glad you enjoyed this one Oscar. We're seeing solid success with this setup.
Excellent video . lot to learn. Wafting next video
Thanks Abid. Glad you enjoyed this one.
Looks good. Check out the channel Permaculture Orchard. The guy interplants fruiting shrubs to replace the need for trunk painting. Nice way to lesson the work, while stacking harvests. Drop some pollinator attractors (preferably native), and you'll be on your way to a pretty low maintenance system. Cheers.
Great suggestions here Nate!
Learnt a lot. In Southern Africa.
Hey there! Glad you enjoyed this one and found it useful. We have a few viewers in So. Africa. Is your weather there similar to ours?
We have 4 seasons, summer, winter, spring, autumn. During summer temperatures range between 29 degrees Celsius and 35 but winter is between 19 and 28. We experience quite some heavy rains in summer though unpredictable sometimes they are very low. Botswana 🇧🇼 is my country a few kms away from South Africa 🇿🇦
@@Ofentse3101 ah ok. Your temperatures are much more moderate than ours here. Our summer temps are as high as 51 C and Winters can be as low as -6 C. Your weather is almost ideal for growing many crops.
The trees are looking awesome folks! When would it be a good time to take some cuttings from my neighbors Mulberries to root out and plant? Would it be probably this winter? I rooted all my figs in February 2020 that I got from some folks down near you.
Hey there Dan! Usually winter is the best time for cuttings, but we're testing some summer cuttings right now and it's too early to tell whether or not they're going to take. There is budding on the first one we potted up, so we'll see.
Thanks for sharing this info sir
Glad you found this one useful Alex!
I like your farm design which shows that lots of care has been put into it for the benefit of a good crop. I have some land in AZ also but am just starting out and plan to do the exotics and getting idea of how its done. I did not notice much tilling and suspect you are using the desert sand as is; with mulch from what I can see. Great video it has helped me already. I'll keep checking in. How many acres are there?
We are on 6 acres here, but we're only working about half of that so far. We use the native soil for the vast majority of our plantings. Hence the mulch and a lot of different livestock to naturally increase the fertility over time.
Thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed this one!
Great Job! Thank you💜🙏
Glad you enjoyed it!
I wish we had the space for full spacing but we don't. I squeezed in 25 fruit trees in a 60 sq meter space (10m x 6m). Lots of double planting and smaller gaps. More work, but we will get more variety over quantity which is what we want.
I will say about that full sun, not every fruit tree needs full sun all the time. Our apples and stone fruit are planted so during the warm months they have full sun, but when they are asleep the house causes them to be in full shade.
Hey Matthew. That's a solid amount of production for that space and that's the key. If you plant closer together you'll just need to manage them a bit more to ensure they have what they need to thrive.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm Set and forget would be easier, plus we have multi grafts that require monthly attention. But I think long term the benefits will outweigh the negatives.
Do you guys have any pawpaw or persimmon trees? I'm looking forward to videos of when these trees start producing for you!
Hey Dave. We do have 2 persimmon trees, 1 fuyu and 1 chocolate. We don't have any paw paw trees as they are VERY difficult to grow here in AZ. The mix of soil and weather is a bit too much for their liking!
Could we get an updated tour of the farm?
Great suggestion and yes, we need to get a full tour up here soon!
I was exposed to the spindling method some 30 years ago in AZ by these two German dudes that came through town. I recall their focus was time to first fruit by year two. Failed trees were less of a loss due to time to replant. Not suggesting this for you but am wondering if you've seen this. Thenks and best wishes with your place.
Hmm, I haven't seen or heard of that before. We generally don't allow trees to fruit for the first 2 years so they have time to get their roots well established. Some trees, like most citrus, won't fruit for the first few years either way.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm Thanks for the reply. Each tree was planted 2' on center with just enough to walk between the rows. The new growth was kept to six branches that I think were clipped to horizontal wire trellises at a max of 8' high. LOL sounds torturous. Like I said the production was nearly full in the second year. There seems to be some info on the goog about it now. The per acre yeilds were ridiculous. No ladders for harvest. Probably lots of labor. Always wanted to try it.
I grow tomatoes now commercially where I plant determinates in a 3" grid. It puts the plants in to a competitive stress. They look sick and leggy but the production is insane. This is how Hunts grows tomatoes in Canada of all places. The yeilds are over 50 tons/acre.
Your place looks wonderful by the way. Best wishes.
@@wearemilesfromnowhere4630 ok yes, I've seen something similar with some of the Honeycrisp apple orchards. Amazing to see the production on such a small space.
I wonder if you can do desert cover crops
Great question Hosoi and we're doing the best we can trying to find something that fits the bill. The biggest challenge we face here is the constant drought conditions we find ourselves in. Even our desert adapted trees, which usually have at least some green on them going into summer, looked completely dead until our monsoon rains hit. Until this year, that was even hard to come by!
Never seen your channel great stuff just subscribed. Just curious were is this Arizona?
Glad you found us Oscar! Yes, we are in Wittmann, Arizona. About an hour outside of downtown Phoenix.
Have you guys tried growing mango?
Hey Vito. No, we probably won't try mango. It's difficult at best for folks in the city with occasional frosty nights, but we're 5-6 degrees cooler out here. Our 20 degree temps would kill a full grown mango outright!
My baby has the test in school what amount of space between two trees when planted
There are many factors that determine how much space you give between trees. For us the ideal spacing is 16' for semi dwarf trees and 30' for full size trees. However, many folks use less spacing and keep the trees pruned to fit their space.
Where are the bees coming from to pollinate these? Or is there another method?
We have neighbors down the road that have had bees for a while and we now have bees on the farm that we're keeping as well.
If you plant close together for cross pollination then the tree closest to the equator will dominate the one behind it. Northern hemisphere the southern tree will dominate, southern hemisphere the northern tree will dominate. You had it right with east and west placing maybe set them on a north east south west alignment in northern hemisphere and north west south east alignment for southern hemisphere could be a better idea.
Great points on this one G M. Having them off set would actually be the best way to get the double planting accomplished without forsaking the growth of one tree over the other.
I'm in North Hemisphere and did north west and south east for the trees where I planted the pairs close together (5-6 feet) for a backyard orchard hedge and for pollination. I hope this works. We'll see. I was thinking that that the SE tree would get morning to midday sun and the NW one would get mid morning to afternoon. The plan was to keep them pruned in summer as shown via Dave Wilson backyard orchard techniques. I would minimize the branches between the pairs. There are currently 3 existing plum varieties and 6 recently added interspecific varieties I'm trying out (plumcot, aprium, pluerries) to see if they'll do well in our zone (chill hours a concern for 1 tree). I only have one acre mostly backyard and the HOA has been pretty lenient on the backyard, but they're picky on what is seen in the front yards.
So what is tree spacing on the row.
Most of our semi-dwarf trees are 16' apart in the row and each row is about 12' apart, so with the offset in planting it gives at least 16' in any direction from each trunk. Assuming we allow it to grow into the rows between of course. With that we can allow each tree to grow to full size horizontally for ease of harvest while maintaining the maximum amount of production. Hopefully that makes sense.
If I may ask how many kgs do you get from one tree on average?
Oh goodness, I would not have any idea. It varies so much from year to year and also from one variety to another. Is there a specific fruit you're curious about?
Hi.
Hey Allan, what's up dude.
Where are you located?
We are in Wittmann Arizona, which is about a hour from downtown Phoenix.
These trees get almost no shade?
You got it. The varieties we grow thrive in full sun as do most fruit trees. Tropical trees is where you may find issues in Arizona and that's one of several reasons we don't grow them on the farm.
You dont have squirrels there, do you?
We have a lot of ground squirrels that are a menace.