Folks, I'd like to thank Josh so much for his thorough and helpful review. Unlike Josh, I failed to read the Sci Oly instruction in detail and didn't catch the "no black panel" improvement to the rule! Silly me. Indeed, cover the whole wing in the included HDPE "veggie bag" plastic. As to covering, I've found cutting out panels of the plastic about half an inch or so bigger all around than each wing panel, and then depositing each piece onto its own piece of plastic works a little better than trying to keep the big piece of plastic intact as Josh did. Feedback noted on including parts for a covering frame. I'll give that some thought. My own impression of these props is that they're reasonably good, but IMHO the pitch is a little low. 3000 turns in a 1.5g loop of 1/16? I didn't believe it either, haha! Again, Josh, many thanks for your review of the Western Tanager. It was very kind of you to do this. John, Laser-Cut Planes
The man himself has entered the chat! Duly noted on using smaller pieces of plastic...several people have pointed that out to me. Agreed on the prop pitch, but they do work very, very well.
Thanks John, for providing consistently high-quality kits all these years. The Binomial will always be one of my favorite indoor designs. Very influential!
This, my friends who build Guillows and Sterling and such kits ,hoping that they will fly, is what a flying model airplane is supposed to be like. Just mesmerizing and so beautiful. Thanks, Josh, once again.
Nice review Josh. As far as the "frameless" covering technique, I've found that my old stick and tissue technique works well-- cutting out a piece of the veggie bag just slightly larger than the wing panel or stab makes it easier. After sticking to the spar, then "rolling" on the ribs to the other spar, it goes easier if you're not dealing with a bunch of extra material surrounding the part.
Yeah I can see why that would work. Makes sense. Will try that in the future. For what it's worth, I think John has some formula that lets him cook up planes which don't need good covering jobs. Caleb made a right mess of one of his P-18s being super distracted and minimally supervised in a class and it still flew just fine.
Great assessment, by the looks. I was particularly impressed with the way this coped with the air in the 1st outdoor flight, stalling up but "hangin' on in there"! Congratulations to John for this. I note his comment about covering each panel individually, a 1/2" oversize, I bet that in the absence of a frame, this would definitely help. I myself am Mr Butterfingers in these things. Happy New Year to all! ⭐👍
Great review, I am finding that i look forward (with eagerness) to these reviews now every year. I imagine the reason You would put the wing pylon's on the LH side is it would sort of have the same effect as making the LH wing slightly longer? I also pre-cut wing skins if i am not use a covering frame, after you pĺace the leading edge on covering, there is not so much weight and cling to lift a whole sheet as you rock the airfoil shape across the covering.....i get that you want to encourage kids to use covering frame, its a great skill for the kids to learn. Fussy tip: Not all of the veggie bag wants to lay nice and super flat, as the model uses such a small amount of the bag, you can smooth out the covering and cut wing "skins" from the area's that naturally seem to want to lay more flat.
I've noticed several fliers have come to depend on these as a staple. The funny thing is this one actually has the right wing slightly longer per the instructions. It just seems to work. I think the important thing on the covering is that these seem to be designed with slack covering in mind. Caleb built one of John's P-18s last year in a lunch break class in Arizona where he was super distracted and got half of the wing ribs in backwards, tons of wrinkles in the covering, etc, and it flew just fine. He still has it and flies it regularly. I don't know what John is doing to factor that kind of stuff in but he's made a proper science of it.
Thanks for the reminder to set some money aside for a rubber band airplane. lol your kids hid your ruler. I went to use the shop vac and realized the wheels were missing. I asked my son where’s the wheels. He didn’t know. A year later I found them in the bushes.
Looks like a box concerto with a heavy prop. Most schools that buy these have trouble getting them to turn. Since this design has a short, thick tailboom, the only way is to put a sticky note on the rudder and use that. The plane also appreciates the extra vertical area
Yeah similar concept. The sheet balsa fin on this one does make it very easy to bend in some left rudder. I didn't find any evidence of insufficient yaw damping on this one, probably because of the nifty small propeller.
@@joshuawfinn It was a really smart idea for John to use a tab and a floating rudder. the box concerto had the whole root edge glued to the tailboom last time. this will likely fix the problem
I wonder how long it will be before airplane kits are just data online with the assumption that you have your own LASER cutter and just need to buy the prop, landing gear, wheels etc.?
I'll put it this way, running a laser with correctly selected balsa is why people who own small lasers still buy kits. Also at the moment there's no good solution to protecting your intellectual property once you let the files out to anyone, hence the reason I don't sell files. Copyright, even if you do obtain it, is virtually worthless at this point.
3,000 turns in an 18" loop of 1/16" gives a turns coefficient of 12. Better quality rubber, I've seen as high as 13. I use 10.64 for estimates, based on a couple tests of pretty good Tan II about 15 years ago. Covering frame should be standard shop jig for SO builders, maybe provided as a kit, although they are pretty simple from stock wood.
I can understand that sort of turns count on 10/97 or 5/99, but this is in reference to modern Supersport. I did a fair bit of testing during the development of our TSA kits which are designed to use stock 1/16" and maxed out around 2500 turns after 3 break in cycles.
Launching in a gym should be close to the right wall, not from center of room. The plane flys left circle. Launch from one radius out from center, flying parallel with long wall, left wing pointing to center of flight circle in center of room. This minimizes risk of collision with wall. Launch from as close to the floor as possible. For duration, let plane land on floor; catching it at shoulder height will cut flight short by maybe 10 seconds.
Folks, I'd like to thank Josh so much for his thorough and helpful review. Unlike Josh, I failed to read the Sci Oly instruction in detail and didn't catch the "no black panel" improvement to the rule! Silly me. Indeed, cover the whole wing in the included HDPE "veggie bag" plastic. As to covering, I've found cutting out panels of the plastic about half an inch or so bigger all around than each wing panel, and then depositing each piece onto its own piece of plastic works a little better than trying to keep the big piece of plastic intact as Josh did. Feedback noted on including parts for a covering frame. I'll give that some thought. My own impression of these props is that they're reasonably good, but IMHO the pitch is a little low. 3000 turns in a 1.5g loop of 1/16? I didn't believe it either, haha!
Again, Josh, many thanks for your review of the Western Tanager. It was very kind of you to do this.
John, Laser-Cut Planes
The man himself has entered the chat!
Duly noted on using smaller pieces of plastic...several people have pointed that out to me.
Agreed on the prop pitch, but they do work very, very well.
Thanks John, for providing consistently high-quality kits all these years. The Binomial will always be one of my favorite indoor designs. Very influential!
@@joshuawfinnoui mais enfin vos kit sont cher
You are good, no, not good, you are the best and the best at this job.
Very good in all you have done. Big fan. I am 71 and have built countless self designed models
This, my friends who build Guillows and Sterling and such kits ,hoping that they will fly, is what a flying model airplane is supposed to be like.
Just mesmerizing and so beautiful.
Thanks, Josh, once again.
Agreed 100% (wait til you see my next Guillow's build though!)
@@joshuawfinn Josh, from you I expect nothing but the best. Perhaps even you can build a Guillows that flies well.
Nice review Josh. As far as the "frameless" covering technique, I've found that my old stick and tissue technique works well-- cutting out a piece of the veggie bag just slightly larger than the wing panel or stab makes it easier. After sticking to the spar, then "rolling" on the ribs to the other spar, it goes easier if you're not dealing with a bunch of extra material surrounding the part.
Yeah I can see why that would work. Makes sense. Will try that in the future. For what it's worth, I think John has some formula that lets him cook up planes which don't need good covering jobs. Caleb made a right mess of one of his P-18s being super distracted and minimally supervised in a class and it still flew just fine.
Great assessment, by the looks. I was particularly impressed with the way this coped with the air in the 1st outdoor flight, stalling up but "hangin' on in there"!
Congratulations to John for this. I note his comment about covering each panel individually, a 1/2" oversize, I bet that in the absence of a frame, this would definitely help. I myself am Mr Butterfingers in these things.
Happy New Year to all! ⭐👍
Nice and easy way to get flying. 😊
Great review, I am finding that i look forward (with eagerness) to these reviews now every year.
I imagine the reason You would put the wing pylon's on the LH side is it would sort of have the same effect as making the LH wing slightly longer?
I also pre-cut wing skins if i am not use a covering frame, after you pĺace the leading edge on covering, there is not so much weight and cling to lift a whole sheet as you rock the airfoil shape across the covering.....i get that you want to encourage kids to use covering frame, its a great skill for the kids to learn.
Fussy tip:
Not all of the veggie bag wants to lay nice and super flat, as the model uses such a small amount of the bag, you can smooth out the covering and cut wing "skins" from the area's that naturally seem to want to lay more flat.
I've noticed several fliers have come to depend on these as a staple.
The funny thing is this one actually has the right wing slightly longer per the instructions. It just seems to work.
I think the important thing on the covering is that these seem to be designed with slack covering in mind. Caleb built one of John's P-18s last year in a lunch break class in Arizona where he was super distracted and got half of the wing ribs in backwards, tons of wrinkles in the covering, etc, and it flew just fine. He still has it and flies it regularly. I don't know what John is doing to factor that kind of stuff in but he's made a proper science of it.
Nice climb do you offer a similar design?
Yes, I do. The Senior Flyer is roughly equivalent to this plane, being designed for the same usage case.
Thanks for the reminder to set some money aside for a rubber band airplane. lol your kids hid your ruler. I went to use the shop vac and realized the wheels were missing. I asked my son where’s the wheels. He didn’t know. A year later I found them in the bushes.
Yeah...I've had that happen!
great build
Looks like a box concerto with a heavy prop. Most schools that buy these have trouble getting them to turn. Since this design has a short, thick tailboom, the only way is to put a sticky note on the rudder and use that. The plane also appreciates the extra vertical area
Yeah similar concept. The sheet balsa fin on this one does make it very easy to bend in some left rudder. I didn't find any evidence of insufficient yaw damping on this one, probably because of the nifty small propeller.
@@joshuawfinn It was a really smart idea for John to use a tab and a floating rudder. the box concerto had the whole root edge glued to the tailboom last time. this will likely fix the problem
Mantap
Does he has his plane attached to a nylon string or why does it fly in circles? Or is just blowing so much? Thanks in advice
We don't do strings and stuff like that. These planes are adjusted to fly a circling pattern to keep them in the bounds of the flying site.
@@joshuawfinn Thanks a lot. So it would surely be possibly to fly them straight maybe 20 - 30m until they may start to drift because of wind?
I wonder how long it will be before airplane kits are just data online with the assumption that you have your own LASER cutter and just need to buy the prop, landing gear, wheels etc.?
(Of course, we would be expected to pay for the data file, much like buying MP3 files.)
I'll put it this way, running a laser with correctly selected balsa is why people who own small lasers still buy kits.
Also at the moment there's no good solution to protecting your intellectual property once you let the files out to anyone, hence the reason I don't sell files. Copyright, even if you do obtain it, is virtually worthless at this point.
@@joshuawfinn - I know... copyright laws assume you have the huge amount of money needed to sue someone.
3,000 turns in an 18" loop of 1/16" gives a turns coefficient of 12. Better quality rubber, I've seen as high as 13. I use 10.64 for estimates, based on a couple tests of pretty good Tan II about 15 years ago. Covering frame should be standard shop jig for SO builders, maybe provided as a kit, although they are pretty simple from stock wood.
I can understand that sort of turns count on 10/97 or 5/99, but this is in reference to modern Supersport. I did a fair bit of testing during the development of our TSA kits which are designed to use stock 1/16" and maxed out around 2500 turns after 3 break in cycles.
@@joshuawfinn About right. My 10.64 gives 2,640.
Nice flyer.
Launching in a gym should be close to the right wall, not from center of room. The plane flys left circle. Launch from one radius out from center, flying parallel with long wall, left wing pointing to center of flight circle in center of room. This minimizes risk of collision with wall. Launch from as close to the floor as possible. For duration, let plane land on floor; catching it at shoulder height will cut flight short by maybe 10 seconds.
Yeah, still trying to get a 5 year old to understand that. 😉 He insists on catching them.
Makes me wanna build the world's largest rubber band airplane! 😱😁🤪👍👍🇺🇸
You should!!!
@@joshuawfinn Wait, you already did, ... so can I build "TWLRBSMA", the "Mega Stick"?! 😱😁🤪👍👍🇺🇸
10cm is a little under 4"
And if I hadn't been half asleep I probably would have remembered that! 😅
you are not good ,very very very good.