I escaped the grip of Satan's Sunday lawless church myself, Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
Here is an idea, instead of getting the information second hand just invite one of the predominant teachers of hebrew roots on the show and ask questions and have a respectful dialog.
I'm sure they would. Shoot them a message for who you think would be someone who could explain it well. This is just an overview like they said, and if it's this guy's first hand experience why are you calling it second hand?
@@stuartmcleod8490 it just feels like they are trying to paint a shadow on the movement. They mentioned some of the headliners "Psalm 119 Ministries" and multiple people shouted out Bill Cloud in their first episode. What they decided to do here was not the right way.
no one is considering that "burdensome", but it shouldn't be something to kick someone to the curb for not doing so either when according to Romans 6:14 (KJV), it's grace we're under, not the law because of Jesus Christ though.
Peace Brothers. Seems like it is time to interview some of the most respected teachers in this movement whoever they are? When I was in Israel a asked a wise Jewish man "how many forms of Judaism are there in Israel?" He said "how many Jews are there in Israel?" I responded, "I think around 7 million." And he said "there you have your answer." This can easily be said of Christianity as well. We have over 2 Billion believers in over 35,000 different denominations all thinking they are the ones who have all the truth. The people I know that would be called "Hebrew Roots" tell me that they are just try to walk like Jesus. That seems like a Biblical idea to me. They say they are saved by grace through faith. No signs of them being burden by the law. They love keeping the Sabbath and Feasts just like Christians love Christmas and Easter. and going to church on Sunday. However I must say that these Hebrew Rooters are the correct ones in relation to the Holy days. Hope you bring on a Hebrew Rooter teacher next time, looking forward to it. When persecution comes I think we will hopefully all be roll together. Blessings and love.
Overall I appreciate how honest and respectful you guys approached this topic. You did a pretty fair assessment of the overall ideas of the Hebrew Roots. And, while I now have a more Hebrew Roots outlook on scripture, I didn't used to. I used to think people doing this stuff seemed weird and different too. My biggest critique on this Pt2 video would be that you think following God's Torah to be a burden or a heavy yoke. I don't think that was or is the intention of the Torah at all. Our family has been resting on Shabbat for several years now starting on Friday evening with a wonderful meal made by my wife. Our 10 children love that meal and our next 24 hours because my wife and I do our best to be a lot more present than we are during the other 6 days of the week. That makes it a huge blessing to both my children and to us. No one in our family sees that as a burden. I would have to say the same thing for celebrating the other Feasts throughout the year. We look forward to them. And really, if we didn't have Jesus (the King of the Jews) as our saviour, I don't know why I would do any of them in the first place. He is the reason we even started thinking about those things. I wouldn't tell people they have to do Shabbat, just like I am not going to tell people they have to celebrate their birthday. It's a celebration our freedom in Christ and directing our hope forward to our eternal rest with Him. What a gift that is.
The burden is in keeping the whole of the law, not just the parts you want. Jesus clearly presents his yoke as light in contrast to the law of Moses as heavy.
@@lordboston05 I used to think that way too. But I have changed my opinion on that more recently. Here is why, God told Israel "For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off." - Deuteronomy 30:11. John wrote "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." (1 John 5:3). David says that the Torah is perfect and restores his soul. And like David, Paul also says he delights in the Law of God. Again, not trying to convince you to follow it yourself, but I don't think Law of God is the burden that is mentioned in Acts 15. You may want to look into the Oral Torah of Rabbinic Judaism to see if those additional Laws added to God's Law is maybe the burden that is too hard to bear in Acts 15. That's what I am thinking, but I could be wrong.
@@lordboston05 Regarding Jesus mentioning his Yoke, he also states "And you will find rest for your souls." He is quoting Jeremiah 6:16 "This is what the LORD says: “Stand at the crossroads and look. Ask for the ancient paths: ‘Where is the good way?’ Then walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it!’
Keeping the Torah is not a burden, if it is a burden, there is a problem. Your focus is on the wrong thing. I find freedom in celebrating the feast and keeping Torah. Keep the Torah - It’s not for salvation, it’s not for works. It doesn’t make me a better person. It’s a blessing to keep Torah. I think a good analogy is the Lord’s Supper. Why do people do it? So they have too for salvation… no. But it’s s memorial, it’s a reminder, it’s an experience. Same is try for the feast and me. The Lord’s Supper is not s burden, celebrating Christmas and Easter is not a burden. Neither is keeping Torah when it is done with the right focus and intention.
@@jasonbruton1692 when you say ceremonial washings can you be specific. If it has to do with the Temple, then no because there is no temple right now. But we do keep kosher, wear Tzi tzi as well as the other stuff we can do.
What I’m really understanding from this conversation about the Hebrew Roots Movement is that it all comes back to INTENTION. I know people who observe the Sabbath, but the aren’t legalistic about it and find great blessing in that time. I know people who observe the feasts, but are not legalistic about it. If your INTENTION is purely to understand and connect with those Hebrew roots, that is not the problem. The problem comes when we start predicating our salvation and our righteousness on observing these laws, more or less diminishing Jesus’s sacrifice and the gift of that sacrifice removing our need to work for our salvation by strictly following the law.
I am a pastor, a shepherd of a local flock, and I have been accused of this label. I don't generally like labels, so don't refer to myself as Hebrew Roots, but I'd be happy to discuss the positions and perspectives with y'all as someone who is a part of the Body of Messiah and would hold to many of the beliefs of this movement.
“So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!”
A lot of the ideas too is through the Book of Enoch, Jubilees, & Maccabees...etc. Being the end times watchmen as Natsarim is a huge one. Which is what I'm currently detoxing from by the discernment of the Holy Spirit & help through fellowship through my church family and celebrate recovery. For me it was stemming from my need for hidden knowledge and my pride for needing to be the most obedient to the Most High. And for me especially, I have a background in gnosticism, alchemy, eastern religions, mythologies, theosophy,, and the list goes on over 12+ years. But, saved in Jesus Christ mid-August. But, surrendering to Him all over again through repentance of my incessant need to know the truth and being honest, my need to know everything. The first step is being honest with ourselves and others and admit we are POWERLESS. And in need of our powerful Savior. Amen!
@@TheTheresaI What helped me the most, was remembering the moment I was delivered. Who and what powerful Name did I call upon to surrender to and who cam to save me: Jesus Christ of Nazareth the true Son of the Living God. And I surrendered all over again---my pride, my "knowledge", my mind, and ALL the researching. I stopped looking at outside sources. I solely prayed, read my Bible, stuck with my Bible study, and admitted to my friends who I knew would hold me accountable to my walk in Jesus Christ. I told Holy Spirit to continue renewing my mind by taking away all "my" knowledge I don't need. I no longer wanted my mind to be unfiltered, but purified. Close the portals of the world and of man around us. Holy Spirit will guide you in Spirit and in Truth. And start with reading the book of Galatians. It REALLY REALLY helped me.
You need to get Caleb Hegg or Tim Hegg on here to explain their perspective on the Hebrew Roots movement / Messianic Jew. They have a perspective that is not being presented. I know Andrew had Caleb on his podcast. Both are very solid guys, and willing to talk and discuss. Also I do agree and appreciate that you acknowledge that there is a spectrum. And I personally would put many in the category of cultish however there are messianic believers that are solid believers. We do attend a messianic synagogue, I consider myself a Christian and I believe in the trinity. We are not Hebrew Roots or two house. There is a distinction and it’s bothersome that we get grouped together.
I would agree with this. Hebrew roots has infiltrated and hijacked many messianic groups but there remains some who shun hr teachings. Some messianic groups observe feasts etc as cultural and denounce attempts to put believing Gentiles under the law
When people hear that some who follow Hebrew Roots dont believe the trinity, they immediately think that they must be denying that Jesus is God. That is a separate doctrine altogether. Many in Hebrew Roots who deny the trinity would be comfortable with asserting a doctrine of Tri-Unity that does not say they are three separate persons, but rather, that they are three separate witnesses. Scripture itself uses that language under the wisdom of the Holy Spirit who inspired it. This distinction is important because texts themselves explain how the Holy Spirit who indwells believers is the Spirit of Christ. And Christ Himself emphasizes that He is one with the Father. Zechariah clarifies that it is not until Christ comes the second time to reign exercising all authority that their names are One. In the meantime, Christ is clearly the only way we ever have interaction with Yahweh, either in Christophenies when He makes appearances on earth in physical form, or as His Spirit indwells us. A cultural reason that the trinity is a stumbling block is because it was used historically as a reason to slaughter Jews and Muslims though many of them taught about the One whose back parts were seen by Moses, who ate with the elders at Sinia, who negotiated over Sodom and Gomorrah with Abraham and wrestled with Jacob etc. And who also recognized the Ruach HaChodesh (Holy Spirit of God) but who were not comfortable with assenting to the christian doctrine as it was articulated. In other words, they talked about 3 ways God exists in time and space but never had a doctrine of the trinity. Such a doctrine is never delineated in scripture though the deity of Christ is asserted and identified as a stone of stumbling to those who are veiled.
@Eric H Yes, it would seem that the ship could use a bit of tightening up. We need to reevaluate old theological constructs to trim saggy areas and bring them closer to Biblical text. To believe in the deity of Christ is not even the same thing as believing the trinity. Yet they claim that the grounds for maintaining it as central are because of its centrality. For years the faith of Abraham noted the presence of the Holy Spirit of God as well as Elohim as a Father source and having physical representation referred to as Lord. It is extremely important that we put our faith in His Word. Not for any membership except to be written into the Lamb's Book of Life.
It would be beneficial for the audience if a teacher from the Hebrews perspective answered these questions. I think they would be more than willing to defend themselves on your platform. The gentleman answering the questions is sitting in a teachers seat or position. Answering the questions as if he truly is learnt in the doctrine. Christ says keep the commandments, was he wrong? We know that no man is Justified by the works of the law. But we still keep the law as Paul says In Romans 3:31. Besides sacrifice because we know Christ is the perfect sacrifice dying once for all. Hebrew 9:28. So which Christ do you preach? The one in scripture says keep his commandments? What’s wrong with that?
I agree, getting a person that is within the messianic movement, familiar with two house and Hebrew roots but solid in major theology, that would be helpful.
I think both Part 1 and Part 2 were very well done as someone (myself) who wanted to be so obedient to the Most High that I started very small in learning Hebrew, then being a Messianic, then, moved into Sacred Name movement, then Feast, Torah, & Sabbath keeping as a Natsarim-----then seeing my friends in the same exact place getting pulled into the Quran and Islam as the New "New Covenant" through the "Last" Prophet Muhammad and the Quran being the new fulfillment and the Bible being secondary text. Even with good intentions we can slowly over time allow the devil a foothold with our constant need for searching for more, reading in between the lines, believing we receive secret knowledge that no one knows, and needing to confirm our belief in Jesus instead of RESTING in the knowledge and understanding of what He truly did for is on the cross. The peace that surpasses all understanding. And Andrew is right, no one is saying to NOT celebrate the Feasts out of your own freedom and love for Him, but when we make it a NEED in terms of salvation we are indeed turning from our Savior. We walk by His Spirit who helps, councils, and equips us to continue following Him---Galatians 5. And it's a very confusing and isolated path when He did not give us a Spirit of confusion, but of peace---or a spirit of division, but of unity in the Body. I do believe that God uses Messianics to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ----as Peter preached to the Jews and Paul preached to the Gentiles (and even Jews himself!). And a lot of the DEEPER things of the Hebrew Roots Movement start denying Jesus as God cloaked in the flesh. They are run by pride, just as I was when I believed I was more special in receiving this knowledge. Which is not true. It's always about coming back to a place of surrender. Knowledge isn't power, it's a false sense of power. Especially when it stops lining up with His true Word. True knowledge belongs to God and He gives it to each as He sees fit.
Andrew Schumacher said, at about 27:30 into the video, ""When the new covenant is more fully described and taught on in the Book of Hebrews, it means the end of the mosaic covenant and that's the part they (Torah observant people) can't abide by". I wonder if he would care to elaborate on that and show us exactly where that is? The last time I looked, there is no such place, anywhere in the bible... Andrew has some real serious theological issues with the book of Hebrews. I'm open to being proved wrong, are you?
Well it starts with the word "covenant" being added to Hebrews in 8:13 and 9:1. That word is not there in the Greek translation. When you remove those words and re-read the verses in context starting in chapter 7 then you can see that what is being spoken of is the Levitical priesthood. It became "decayed and waxed old" meaning it was of men and became corrupted. The order of Melchizedek is replacing it with Jesus at it's head. Perhaps you know this but in case you dont...Any thing italicized in the Bible was added from the Greek. Sometimes the additions fit and assist the context (you, me, us etc. Thought sometimes the words change the context of several verses or chapters or even beliefs. Keep in mind that Satan has an agenda too and while he cannot get rid of the Bible he can and has messed with it.
@@usmcPath Yes, that was my point in asking Andrew the question regarding his comment on Hebrews. Its very typical for people to go to Hebrews when attempting to demean Torah observant people. The problem is, they don't have a very good understanding of the text, other than from an English translation perspective.
@@livingthecountrylife360 Yea, I gathered that was your point. I was expounding on your thought for those that might read your comment. Sorry if I made it seem otherwise. Blessings
The word covenant IS in the Greek of Hebrews 8. Jesus is called the mediator of a better covenant in verse 6. The passage also quotes God declaring that he will make a new covenant. That's why it is sometimes added to other verses in the passage during translation. To make things clear to the reader. It's not some sneaky, misleading insertion of words influenced by Satan; it's context-based clarification. Anybody who reads this thread down the road, just go to Hebrews 8 and read the whole chapter. I beg you. Check the Greek too, if that's your thing. Feel free. It's clear what's under discussion. It's not just the priesthood that was passing away. It was the old covenant. The passage begins talking about a new covenant brought about by Christ's priesthood in verse 6. It goes on to quote (from Jeremiah) God speaking, promising a new covenant, in verses 8-12. And the word covenant is there in the Greek for verses 8, 9, and 10. It's there in the Hebrew of Jeremiah as well. Check it yourself. So, God speaks and promises to establish a new covenant. Verse 13 then says "In saying, 'new,' He has made obsolete the first." "He" from verse 13 is clearly God, who was just quoted. What new thing did God just speak about? "We've been talking about a new covenant for the last several verses. But now, without warning, I'm going to stop talking about that and go back to the previous topic." That wouldn't make much sense. Not only that, but God never said the word "new" about the priesthood in the previous chapters. The covenant is the only new thing spoken of by God. In fact, it's the only time the word "new" is used by anyone to describe anything until that point in Hebrews. In addition, the only thing explicitly referred to as "new" in any verse throughout Hebrews is the covenant mediated by Jesus. It's simply inescapable that a new covenant, specifically, is under discussion in 8:13. You have to majorly twist the passage not to see that. Moreover, Hebrews 7 already talked about the priesthood passing away. And it says in verse 12 that a change of priesthood requires a change of law. So even if Hebrews 8 meant only the priesthood was passing away, which it clearly doesn't, that wouldn't help you. According to Hebrews 7, a transformation of the priesthood also necessitates a corresponding alteration in the law. The wording in Greek basically says, "from necessity, a change of law also takes place." Verse 18 also says "So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless." This is in contrast to Christ, who offers "a better hope, by which we draw near to God." Your assessment of Hebrews 9 is terribly flawed as well. Greek manuscripts do not have verse or chapter distinctions. Hebrews 9 would generally continue uninterrupted from Hebrews 8 unless the writer ran out of room. There's no need to add the word "covenant" in 9:1 for the same reason there wasn't in 8:13. It's implied necessarily by the context of the immediately-preceding verses. 8:13 clearly refers to the covenant discussed in the context of verses 6-12. Well, in the original Greek, 8:13 and 9:1 would be right next to each other. That makes 8:6-13 the context for 9:1 as well. Even if that were not the case, 8:13 would still be the context for 9:1. Otherwise, what's being discussed? "The first" had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary. The first what? The first tabernacle? No, it says the first had a tabernacle. The first priesthood? No, the priesthood was a part of the regulations. So what does first mean? Obviously the first covenant. The covenant is what established the priesthood, the regulations of worship, and the exact details required for the tabernacle. Just think about it logically. This is still how we read books written today. When you start a new chapter, it typically continues directly from the last. You don't assume a topic change without warrant. Not to mention that the old and new covenant are specifically referenced again just a few verses later. The ark of the what? The covenant. The tablets of the what? The covenant. This demonstrates that the topic has not shifted. We are talking about the old covenant. The first 10 verses discuss the tabernacle and sacrifices and such under the old (first) covenant. After that, the new covenant is described in contrast. "That's why verse 11 begins with "but," to distinguish the new from the old. And, again, the writer uses the word covenant in the Greek of 9:15. Twice. None of this helps your case. You twist yourselves and the text into pretzels trying to escape the clear meaning. Nobody is demeaning you. You're just wrong.
@@PhrenicosmicOntogeny This is the only place in the entire text that one could even remotely think/misconstrue that God's covenants are done away with. If that were actually true then it would be confirmed in numerous other places. It would be just way too big of a deal not to. (Much like thinking the Sabbath has been done away with or replaced, lol) Men might break covenants, but God does not. If God does away with the covenants He makes, then we are all in severe trouble. But I digress. Chapter eight, and even before, gives us the context of what "had faults". The covenant God makes does NOT have faults. The priesthood of men certainly did/do have. To begin with, the new covenant talked about here is from Jer 31. I think you should go and read the entire thing. It doesn't even make sense that God would make His covenant "obsolete". In fact, again, "palaioo" doesn't exactly mean obsolete and especially doesn't mean or imply "done away with."
Died to the law of sin. Not God's law. So sad Im hearing words like yoke and burden when addressing God's law. Why wouldn't a Believer want to discover, learn and keep the Father's holy days? They are blessings. Ive personally received a greater understanding of Scripture while celebrating His Moedim. 💫 Man-made traditions are the burden. They promote idolatry, debt, paganism. Yoke of Sin. Do not add or take away. Deut 4:2 Believers are seeking out what would please the Father most, out of love for Him. Passover, Sukkot, Fellowship on Shabbat etc. are truly a joy. ❤
*So sad Im hearing words like yoke and burden when addressing God's law* Actsd 15:5 But there rose up a sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That the gentiles must be circumcised, and commanded them to keep the Torah of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together to consider the matter. 7 And after much disputing, Peter got up, and said, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made a choice among us, that the Gentiles by me should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knows the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did to us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now why tempt God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we either were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we will be saved, even as they. Peter said the Torah of Moses was a yoke that the Israelite forefathers nor the disciples could bear. It was a yoke, a yoke is a heavy instrument that fits over the animal for plowing, Peter referred to it as heavy yoke, they had hundreds of laws, certainly more than 613 they had to keep, and when they failed to keep any of them God punished them for it, with either sword, famine, plague or the wild animals. It's not as glorious as the HRM paint it, the OT is God destroying his people over and over again for failure to keep the torah perfectly, it was a yoke in that sense!
@@Power88987 finish out the verse you're quoting; . . . " For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.” the new Believers were to stop those few things immediately. The disciples new that by going to Synagogue every Sabbath the new believers would hear the Torah being read, and would continue to grow and learn. "On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ’And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" -Matthew 7:23 "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law." -Paul Romans 3:31 "for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." - Luke 6:45 "Blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the LORD!" Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart, They do no iniquity; they walk in His ways. -Psalm 119 is an excellent read.
@@Power88987 also the yoke Peter speaks of is salvation by circumcision. None gain salvation on their own accord. It is by grace through faith alone. Obeying the Father's commands are a blessing. To learn and study His word is wisdom. His love language. ❤
@According_To_Matt That is correct. Circumcision of the heart comes first, which compels circumcision of the flesh. A perfect example of that is baptism. A person is baptized by the Holy Spirit first before they feel compelled to obey the law of God to then proceed with water immersion. If you're doing anything without the Spirit (heart), it's all pointless. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws..And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." -Ezek 36
The 2 houses of Israel is found in many places. In the book Romans, Paul tells us that we are grafted into Israel if we believe Yeshuah is the son of God. We are adopted into Israel and become heirs to Abraham. It’s by faith, we won’t know what tribe we are attached to until we are gathered for the Greater Exodus. The first chapter of John tells us the Jesus is God, but nowhere does scripture claim the Holy Spirit to be God. The Holy Spirit is just the Spirit of God not a separate God head. God placed his Spirit on many people and Jesus gives us his spirit as a comforter. Scripture says God is one not two or three. Jesus did not do away with the law, he did say if you love me keep my commandments. Keeping the commandments does not give you salvation it only shows you love him just as keeping the Sabbath is a sign for those who love God. Salvation is a gift from God that none of us are worthy of. We keep the feast because just like wearing the tzitziot, it is commanded by God, it has nothing to do with sacrifices. Israel had daily sacrifices twice a day since we have no temple or sacrifices our prayers are our sacrifices. Most of us have moved beyond name pronunciation, that is a ridiculous argument that takes away from the teachings of scripture. The scriptures are instructions for us to live by. Walk out your own salvation.
Sabbath was given to all humans Creation week. Noah knew which animals were clean and unclean. Everyone 'called out' holy, eklesia is called out to live His way instead of our way. Isaiah 56 how do you interpret it?
Another thing I would like to point out. There are many sects of Christian’s claiming to be “in the truth”. I am sure the hosts of the show claim as well to be “in the truth”. But what does the scriptures say? “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” John 7:38 KJV We must believe on Christ as the scriptures tell us. Careful sitting in seats of influence claiming that a particular doctrine is false. If it is false. Why is it false according to the scripture? Not according to opinion or philosophy. Right?
24:00 no that is not the main distinction....maybe some quibble about the word 'renewed?' The main distinction is that with the new covenant, the law is not abolished, the law moved to our hearts (Heb 10:16-26). This means that when you are saved, you will WANT to follow God's laws. God's laws did not become erased or malleable so that men can change them. The law stands forever Psalm 119:160....'law' is not the same thing as 'covenant.'
How many "Introductory Overview" videos are you guys going to do on this. These videos have been long, vague, boring and frustrating. You've got three guys here that admittingly are not experts on this movement droning on and on with unanswered hypothetical questions. I wish you guys would get to some substance or move on to a better topic. Y'all have definitely done better in the past.
I concur. I watched both on 2x speed and still felt like it was chasing tails, not making much of a case, and definitely not a biblical case against it. Other than the way they presented with an obvious distaste for it.
I have a honest question for the Hebrew roots people. What law was given from Adam to Abraham since there was no Mosiac law? Where are the feast days, Sabbaths , dietary law, etc pre Moses leaving Egypt?
Scripture unfolds as a progression of Revelation, first laying a foundation and then building on it. Sabbath was given Creation week to all mankind. It is the first full day that Adam and Eve spent together. A picture of the rest that would come when Jesus reigns during the 7th millenia. Noah understood the difference between clean and unclean animals. There seems to have been a priesthood after the order of Melchisadec as there is in the heavens. It is important to note that Jesus, our only hope for salvation told His followers to obey the scribes and Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat (teaching Torah) but not to practice as they do (empglhasizing traditions of men). The modern church has completely ignored the times God appointed in Torah trading them entirely for the traditions of men. Jesus also told the leper to "offer the gift Moses commanded" and then commissioned His disciples telling them to teach all He had commanded. He told us that Moses wrote about Him and then He told us that if we dont believe Moses, we wont believe even if someone rises from the dead. He clearly told us that not one bit of the law will pass away until all of it us fulfilled. He still hasn't come the second time.
@@danasalomon3721 Your reasoning is flaw because you are advocating from silence and didn't answer the question that I ask. Where in the old Testament did Noah celebrate the feast days? Did Abraham wear fringes?
@@joshuamelton9148 Genesis 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. How would Noah know what was clean and unclean unless the most high had revealed it to him or it was past on to him since the beginning (Adam and eve)...
@@michaellacourse1013 You are reading into the text and trying to justify the dietary laws that was not there pre Mount Sinai. Also keep in mind the book of Genesis was written hundreds of years after the events of the flood. Also the dietary laws is nowhere in the bible prior to Leviticus chapter 11 where it was first mention. Also the other dietary laws that is mentioned pre mosiac law is found in Genesis 9:3-4 "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." This is King James version if you are wondering about the translation. This was part of the Noahic Covenant that was given to all mankind. Notice the keys words in verse 3 "Every moving thing that live". It doesn't say you can only eat this or that animal. You would thing that this was a very important instruction to pass down to all mankind when God made this Covenant to Noah. The only thing that is prohibited is eating animals alive. If anything you could have made an argument that humans were vegetarians and they did not eat meat until after the flood.
40:35 Neither are Jews! Also, Yeshua functions as our high priest in a perfect temple in heaven, offering continual sacrifices on our behalf. (Read Hebrews chapters 7-9) This doesn't abolish God's appointed times!
21:30 like Yeshua did when he spoke against tradition? (Mark 7:9-13, Mat 15:11-13, Luke 11:37-54, Mark 7:1-8, Mat 12:1-8, Mat 12:10-13, Mat 23:1-4, Mat 23:27-28) You are saying that 'calling out bad tradition' is a litmus test for a 'cult' when it is literally imitating Christ (1 Cor 11:1)
Become as an infant in understanding, as if knowing or being taught nothing, forgetting all bias, prejudice and doctrines of men, then read from Genesis to Revelation. Blessings! 💙
33:32 Noooooo....the law of God is NOT a burden. The law is a delight. Read Psalm 119 for an average Torah-observant person's view of the law. Praise God for His law. The law is also not 'hard' (Deut 30:11)
So Apologia, you all want feed back as.you stated in the show. You started this episode 2 on Hebrew roots with the premise that Hebrew roots is wrong on many levels without examining the scriptural reasons many Hebrew roots believe what they believe. You also let us know one must believe in the trinity to be saved or in the the right "church", according to your comments on the show; which I would like to know where that teaching is in the scripture. About mid way into the show you finally had some scripture brought up. But It was only part of a chapter being read out of Jeremiah 31. So it was not an honest assessment of what that part of scripture is saying completely. The rest of scripture used throughout the rest of your show was the opinion of you and your guest "expert". And all of the scripture referenced were partial verses and not complete thoughts of the entirety of the scripture and context of what the quoted scripture actually teaches. You then ended the show with calling the Hebrew roots movement and believer a wolf in sheep's clothing quoting Paul's warning about wolves coming into the "Church". You are doing a disservice to the body of Messiah, in my opinion, by not having an honest debate, as they did in Messiahs time and in the time shortly after the Resurrection, like in Paul's time (i.e.Athens) It is my assessment the Hebrew roots movement as you call it is a move of the Father in Heaven, the Holy Spirit or Word of the LORD, is teaching His people these things, just as Messiah foretold, when He said He would send another helper and He would teach you all things. You may just be fighting against the LORD (YAHUAH, YHVH, JEHOVAH, YAHWEH, you pick) and not even realize it.
These guys don't want dialogue. All of these episodes on HR is just them scratching each other's ears. They use the worst single examples of people they have met or heard of and then say that they are generalizing. They would never consider studying these things out, as it might conflict with what their teachers say.
Having grown up in and come from the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement and having a father who is still VERY into it, this was a frustrating episode to watch. I do believe that the movement has a lot of cult-like aspects to it, but this guy didn’t really hit that point at all. And he doesn’t seem to know a whole lot about it. He is kind of all over the place and many things he said in this video sounded like rambling to me. I also found some of his theology to be quite flawed, such as his view on the sabbath. How can you say in one breath that we don’t need to keep the sabbath but also that you keep it every day? And then in the next breath say that all the moral laws are carried over for everyone and then continue to state the Ten Commandments, EXCEPT the 4th one, because you just said we don’t need to observe it. I’m not a seventh day sabbath observer anymore, but I get the argument, and definitely believe Gods people should be observing a sabbath every seventh day, not out of legalistic obligation, but out of obedience and it being a gift made for man. Just thought I’d share for anyone scrolling comments before/while watching.
I don’t think I understand what you are saying here. 🤷🏽♂️ You don’t t observe Shabbat, but you think it is commanded by God? 🤷🏽♂️ With love and respect. I am just a little confused. Just for clarity, Are you a believer/follower of Jesus? I have had a lot of interactions with people who call themselves “messianic” and he is spot on.
I love this channel and show however this guy claiming to be knowledgeable in the Hebrew Roots movement is not knowledgeable at all. I do not consider myself a Hebrew rooter, very far from it, but I do believe the whole Bible. You guys might want to consider bringing on somebody who actually knows what the Hebrew Roots movement believes. Someone who can actually attest to what they believe in and why and a very self-controlled knowledgeable manner. I would highly recommend Zachary Bauer from new2Torah or Sean Griffin from Kingdom in context. Both of those men are highly knowledgeable in the Hebrew Roots movement, very self-controlled, and incredibly knowledge in the scriptures. If you guys would consider bringing someone on like these two men you would actually be able to have an intelligent conversation about what Hebrew Roots actually is.
@@Nicole-eu4vx they are correct that there are sooo many different beliefs lumped under Hebrew Roots. I consider myself a first century Judeo-Christian. I believe that Jesus (Yeshua) is God. I also do not believe that the Law was done away with. I love His Torah, Yeshua is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the linear thread from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.
I have been listening this conversation and I can’t believe you guys are talking about other peoples belief of Hebrew roots or messianic and you have no knowledge on that, you are saying false testimonies against the people who believe in that and mislead so many people that are follow you. None of you are qualified to speak about this subject with your little or wrong knowledge and I don’t know if your intention is to misinform your audience. If you really honest and want to find the truth why don’t you invite guess who are believing in Hebrew root, messianic, etc and not only from your opinion. Recommend Jim Staley, 119 ministers, new2torah
They stated in Part 1 that he is using it as an umbrella term. He's not bashing anyone. And, yes, he is actually very knowledgeable in quoting A LOT of people (myself included) who are in a deep stumbling block who throw away the deity of Jesus altogether. This message is for specific people that God is trying to reach. Not every message is for every person. If you want to hear from other people's perspectives then read the other people's books or watch their channels. This is for people who are being led astray by false doctrine---adding to and taking away from both the New Testament and Old Testament. There are people out there who are throwing away the New Testament altogether. They are absolutely reaching and speaking to the correct people that God has predestined to hear this message to bring them back to Him 🙏🤍🕊 they are not bashing anyone for working out their salvation. They're pointing out the dangers of when we decide to go to a works based system instead of justification by the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And remembering that people under the Law did NOT have the Holy Spirit inside of them. So, they kept in step with the Spirit, by trying to keep in step with the Law. We have the Spirit within us through being born again in Jesus Christ, who councils, guides, and equips us; who knows the Law, & the thoughts of God, and guides us in them and by them to keep us from walking in our flesh & doing what we want (Galatians 5). It keeps us following Him and focusing on Him. And if we're staying focused on Him, we are abiding in Him, therefore, abiding by His laws.
Then Andrew around 40 minutes in decides to take on the Kosher laws and then directly to the Sabbath, lol. Brother, even two of the four rulings at the Jerusalem council were directly related to the food laws! Oh, and then it tells us why, " for from ancient generations, Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”. To funny! In other words, okay let's have them start here but they (the gentiles) will then be hearing Moses being taught on the Sabbath and learn how to continue to grow and walk out their new faith. But hey what does Paul know either, right? "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God..." Seriously? So, you mean Jesus kept the Sabbath, the Apostles kept the Sabbath, the new believers were keeping the Sabbath but now, we, the new Church no longer needs to worry about it? Because of our freedom? That's a tough one...
It'd be nice if you guys would get one of these Hebrew Roots people on here to share their perspective. Surely there's some peaceful adherent who could explain from their own perspective?
6:33 True but not 'you may be one of the tribe of Israel by blood'.....ALL believers are ingrafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-31).....like (good) yeast permeating the whole dough as in Matthew 13:33 when Yeshua teaches us about 'the kingdom of heaven is like'.... We weren't ingrafted into something wholly different! We were not grafted into a 'new religion' or 'paganism.' We were grafted into the ways of God as revealed in God's word!
Andrew, I appreciate your research and genuine effort to represent the beliefs of followers of the Way. Some positive aspects as well as some negative aspects you represented very well. I agree the superiority complex with gained knowledge is a dangerous place to be and scripture warns of this clearly. As we are set apart horizontally not vertically. But truly though, so much has been way misrepresented as a Catholic trying to explain accurately the beliefs of a Baptist. I vote for this panel if they are willing: - Steve from Torah Family - Jim from Passion for Truth Ministries - Michael from The Olive Branch ministry - Zach from My House Ministries - Zach from New 2 Torah - Aaron from TOTW
Yes they could. 119 ministries is very quick to respond to emails. I maybe emailed them in the past asking about their beliefs. However I think this series is more about making claims and then not proving their side with any scripture. This is in addition to not having anyone who is actually knowledgeable in what the Hebrew rooters believe.
When I realized that the three-fold division of Gods law doesn’t work and isn’t actually taught in scripture, that was a turning point for me into Torah observance. I still consider myself a theonomist, just one that rejects the three- fold division.
@@samuelbonura7439 Such as the restoration of Shabbat, appointed times, and laws going forth from Zion in the Reign of Messiah (Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, etc Al.)
@@kylej.d. Jesus said that His yoke is easy. He kept the law and explicitly commanded certain people regarding Torah: "the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat so do as they say, but not as they do..." and "go and offer the gift Moses commanded." Then he commissioned His disciples telling them to teach All that He commanded. He also told us that Moses wrote of Him and that if people didnt believe Moses, they would not believe even if someone would rise from the dead.
@@kylej.d. The circumcision party was a group of Pharisees who wanted to conflate physical birth and spiritual birth. Paul wrote, not to denigrate circumcision as a practice for males on the 8th day, but to clarify that such a practice had nothing to do with their own personal faith. In other words, circumcision doesn't save a person, justifying them before God. It is merely an act of obedience in sanctification after believing.
If you believe we still need to keep the laws that go all the way back to the beginning wouldn't we still need to keep the distinction of clean and unclean animals since that distinction was made in Genesis?
🤦♂How is it that Andrew Schumacher is brought on this show to explain what He does not understand. In my opinion this presentation seems to be quite bias. Please continue this conversation with Sean Griffin founder of UA-cam channel "Kingdom in Context". Let's reason with one another, and look into the scriptures intently. Grace and Peace!
Haven’t listened to Apologia for quite sometime for obvious reasons (I became Eastern Orthodox) but really look forward to listening to these discussions on the Hebrew Roots stuff, I was briefly attracted to those things before recognising how silly and adverse to Christ the whole thing ultimately is.
@@pt9474 Well I intentionally made that a broad and all encompassing statement. By it I mean: (A) Actually denying His deity and divinity, and so rejecting his person, (B) Rejecting that he is distinct from the Father and thus rejecting his person, (C) Rejecting baptism in the name of the most holy trinity for the forgiveness of sin and thus rejecting the Christian tearing that we are born again in putting on Christ, (D) that nothing actually changed whatsoever between the testaments and so nullifying the New Testament, promoting the idea that sacrifices at the temple will somehow be necessary again and thus nullifying Christs atoning sacrifice by which death and sin is abolished and nullified, and (E) that becoming a Jew is necessary to be a Christian thus nullifying the dispensation of grace to all the nations because now Christ is still only the God of the Jews, whereas glory is due to him from every nation.
@@pt9474 Also it intrinsically rejects the idea that the actual visible church with an actual communion is the real body of Jesus Christ, and tends to express that all of the traditional christian communions are somehow compromising apostates and pagan - And so in this sense it is also adverse to Christ as the Church.
@@pt9474 This isn’t to say there is nothing good at all in the Hebrew Roots movement, I did find it edifying in some manners and helped me get my spiritual head on straight while I was in the wilderness - But it’s an extremely mixed bag of some things that could spiritually kill a person, such as the things I listed above. The good in it is the emphasis on faithfulness, on honouring the Old Testament and the commandments which are the very words of God, and it’s emphasis on how the New Testament is found within the Old Testament, God did not just say one day “Hey I’m going to abandon Israel and do something new and shiny to subvert some expectations and damn some souls who think I am faithful to them.” God is faithful.
@@OrthobroAustin Thank you for your response. If I can I am going to try and clear a few things up, concerning your statements based on your first response. It may help. But I do appreciate you taking the time out to respond.
Always a good thing when you got folks from one group, who disagree with the beliefs of another group, defining that other group, without interviewing anyone from that group, in order to teach the rest of us who they are. Great job there.
But it's not "without interviewing anyone from that group." There's been plenty of interview by Andrew and Nikki. And they continue to have friends that are still HRM. (I know many of you don't "like" labels, but the reality is, that is a label in and of itself). But yes, they have interviewed plenty of people, as have I.
I don't really understand why it is so hard to believe that people want to obey all of Gods commandments. Simple question: if you love someone, how do you show him or her that you love that person? Is it by saying that you love them or by your actions? How come when it comes to followers of Yeshua/Jesus it is strange or hard to understand? If you claim to love Yeshua, wouldn't you want to go to all of His parties and try and study and keep His commandments to show you that you love Him? So when you love someone it is a burden to study your partner and do the things he or she wants? Studying the Torah and trying to live by it is a blessing and our way to show our love. Or do you have different ways of showing love then by actions? I just wonder...
Come all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest Finish it! For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Still a yoke and burden, but it is informed by the Spirit. The attitude. Ezekiel and Jeremiah speak of it. It's easy to freely obey one you love. The state of the West and post modernism testify that the Church is not getting it either. Read the Book and apply it seriously like the Puritans did. Understand that Jesus is the root, not "Hebrews," but that the Gentiles ARE grafted in , with native "Hebrew" branches also bring broken off. One new bride in Messiah. Brides love and obey their Husbands.
Hebrew Roots is far too vague. Better to pick specific doctrine and then hold it to the Scripture for proving. Maybe more productive in my opinion. Else wise you just tick off legitimate believers who hold to things they believe the Scriptures validate but believe Christianity is rooted in Hebrew Scriptures.
If a third temple is built at some point in the future and fire miraculously consumes the temple sacrifice, how many professed Christians, especially in the Hebrew roots movement, would become apostate by embracing that system in blatant rejection of Christ’s once for all sacrifice ?
Jesus is going to establish a law in Zion. And rule from Jerusakem. There are many prophecies speaking about a milleniel Temple. This is reiterated by several prophets. Also, the early church was involved in Temple worship involving sacrifice for about 70 years after the resurrection of Christ. In fact Paul was taking a Temple vow when he was arrested for teaching against the law, a charge he staunchly and truthfully denied. Hebrew roots movement is taking us back to the power of the early believers. It is to be celebrated and embraced, not criticized by men who ignore the consistency if the Word.
@Eric H Part of Protestantism is certainly exhibiting those symptoms but part of it is being purified to fit the description of the remnant church in the book of the Revelation.
If you are right, how could there be an Abomination of Desolation as prophesied in Daniel? Or do you think that already happened? Also, do you think Isaiah 56 has already happened to? If so, when?
Bad take, y'all. This is part of the reason people are ditching the "Hebrew Roots" title; that it's a large category and not who are even still friendly to that term believe the same things: i.e. polygamy, anti-trinitarianism, anti-Christian. Contentious stuff this gets marched our whenever someone feels like making a straw man heresy hunting vid...
Why not interview someone from this movement instead of this ! Apologia doesn't set the standard so your analysis of the movement based off a poor execution of it's beliefs from someone who obviously has a very broad idea of what's actually taking place . Therefore your tactics for shaming these brothers and sisters in CHRIST because they have opposite beliefs than you is just sad to see . SHALOM !!
For me , certainly not. You are free to observe. Some of us have. It becomes error and cult like when it goes from your desire to observe to believing that it’s disobedience against God not to, especially if you are laying that burden on others.
@@angelcollector22 The word cult comes from the word cultivates, or vice versa but it means the twit something from it original state. My question is focused at whether or not people that agree with everything said of this video, identify those that observe the feasts as a cult?
@@angelcollector22 so to summarize you would not categorize a person as being part of a cult if they choose to observe the appointed times, outlined in scripture. Thank you. That would mean you are in disagreement with a lot of what was said in the videos. In this video particular app call fish seems to wholesale dump anyone Who in anyway it looks to be regarding the 10 Commandments observing the appointment times the concept of being grafted in for being referred to as a hebrew according to Romans and Hebrews as being part of Hebrew roots and then equating that to the most extreme examples of Hebrew roots Adherence. Me and my family observe the appointed times, the spring see that you sure fulfilled as well as the fall feast that have yet to be fulfilled, and they are obviously appointed time to be observed because they systematically an annual a trainer the work of the gospel. And because as a Christian we have no other holidays, a.k.a. holy days identified in our doctrine, and I always take this opportunity to remind people that God has a particular way he’d like to be worshiped and we can’t go around creating our own terms with which we will worship God, he shows us through scripture and history that he will not honor that. Thanks for the opportunity to discuss
I have been listening this conversation and I can’t believe you guys are talking about other peoples belief of Hebrew roots or messianic and you have no knowledge on that, you are saying false testimonies against the people who believe in that and mislead so many people that are follow you. None of you are qualified to speak about this subject with your little or wrong knowledge and I don’t know if your intention is to misinform your audience. If you really honest and want to find the truth why don’t you invite guess who are believing in Hebrew root, messianic, etc and not only from your opinion. Recommend Jim Staley, 119 ministers, new2torah
ROMAN 11:16-27 If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree, don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear; for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off. They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers,[a] of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and so "ALL" Israel will be saved. Even as it is written, “There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. This is my covenant with them, when I will take away their sins.”Isaiah 59:20-21; 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34 (The resurrection of the saints)
Not all Hebrews place a yoke upon people to get circumcised. The comment is a blanket statement condemning all Hebrews... Wait until the topic of Christmas comes up, or baptizing infants, or easter and painting eggs, or the rapture, or Joseph Smith being a prophet, or eve having physical relations with the serpent in the garden, or it being okay to marry the same sex. not all Christians believe the same thing. It would be disingenuous for me to make a statement like that.
@@pt9474 🤦♀️ I spent over 5 yrs in the movement. I know what they, whether it be personal fellow HRers I know, or all the internet ministries, believe. Glad Im home, back in mainstream Christianity, where I was raised
my only question to the folks who passionately follow The 4th Commandment is...Are you passionately following the new commandment Jesus Christ left us with in John 13:34 (KJV)?
Of course we want to follow our Messiah Jesus and all of His teachings. He gives us a more perfect light to understand how to live out the instructions of God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength. "You are not to take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself." - Leviticus 19:18 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Torah?” And He said to him, “‘You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ The entire Torah and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” -Matthew 22:36-40
I don't know why it's such a big deal to just chill on Saturday and go to church on Sunday. We are gentiles Acts 15:20 In my humble opinion Hebrew roots somewhat covets after the idea that Israel is God's people, that's never going to change but you can be grafted in
Great Job Guys I've observed from a safe distance this "Hebrew Roots movement" watching various videos teachings this is one of many scriptures 2 TIM 3: 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Also noticed within several of their Passover and other Feast Gatherings extreme weather disaster strikes, Tornados/Floods etc.... Just my humble observation. Also Jesus was and is the LAMB OF GOD and He clearly states He is the Bread of Life and His Blood is the Life Giving Spirit
Are you trying to state that they were struck with disasters because of their obedience? Hope I’m reading it wrong but that’s a very bold statement to make. Can you cite these events? Did people die? I’m curious.
PS 11:4 He closely watches and examines everything man does. With a glance, his eyes[b] examine every heart, for his heavenly rule will prevail over all. 5 Yahweh tests both the righteous and the wicked. God’s very soul detests lovers of violence. 6 He will[ rain down upon them judgment for their sins. A scorching wind will be their lot in life.
Please bring on and discuss the basics with a reputable "Hebrew Roots" teacher. Steve Moutria from Torah Life or 119 Ministries. Every single group has their fringe folks. Every single group has the unloving, totally missing the point people. I've heard of bad situations within "HR" fellowships but I've also personally experienced bad situations within more mainstream Christian congregations. Also, you all seem to be confusing covenant and law. They are not interchangeable. Jeremiah 31:33 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people." New covenant will be that God will put his law (Torah) within them. Not a new law, not an altered law, not a "moral" law with the "ceremonial" (terms found nowhere in scripture) ended. No where do the prophets ever prophecy of the law ending, the law changing, or of a new law that will be instituted. It's just not there. Concerning the Sabbath: what kind of people get to take a day off to rest? Free people. Slaves, not so much. What a blessing to be free in Christ to rest spiritually AND physically! God instituted the 7th day sabbath at creation. It's almost like he made us and knows what's best for us!
So I am seeing comments from I am presuming HR people saying this video is sitting in judgement and other similar complaints. It’s interesting how accusatory you all are of “the other side” picking apart your doctrine without (yet) getting perspective or answers from Torah followers, yet you all cannot see that every HR ministry and every Facebook group or tic toc member who is a Torah observer spends the majority of their lives picking apart Christian doctrine. I mean, after all, the foundation of your movement is that we are all pagan and lawless. How do you not see that what you are accusing cultish and Beginning of Wisdom of is actually what you all do on a regular and even daily basis. Be honest. You can walk into the comment section of any HR platform and see you all picking apart Christian doctrine. And beyond that many (not all) platforms won’t even allow Christians to have a dissenting opinion or have free open dialogue without having your comment removed or banned altogether. Look at your own actions and see why these accusations are incredibly hypocritical
We ARE to judge one another, judge spirits, judge doctrine against the Counsel of Theos, or God, or LORD, or whatever word you use in place of YHWH our Elohim. We are to judge among believers, and discipline them. And throw out the divisive and heretical ones. Not many should be teachers. HR hits on modern Christianity's weaknesses. Maybe fix the problems so the big "C" church isn't in error, and then worry about your brother's eye. Neither camp is doing it right "by the Book." CRT? BLM? Lady pastors? LGBTQ embraced? Materialistic holidays with Jesus colored frosting on top? Divorce in the Church, REMARRIAGE after? Premarital sex? Abortions? Men not leading families in headship and stuardship? Doubting biblical accuracy and authority? Charismatic nonsense? Osteen? These are problems Evangelicalism has nursed to maturity since the 1850's. Both Fundamental Evengelicalism and HR have brought me closer to the Truth and full beauty of my Elohim, Yeshush the Messiah-King, and the fullness of Scripture. This divisive shit needs to stop. I say shit because that is exactly the filthy, crude rubbish that it is.
Well the majority of men and women came from Christianity who subscribe to the Hebrew movement. So the objective though is to win souls to Christ. So I have a question for you. Is Christianity today filled with pagan practices? Are the Hebrews telling the truth? Or are they lying? lets get Christs words... He is the reason everyone is talking in the first place. Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Christ states many shall claim to be with him but shall deceive many...well that sounds a lot like Christianity, because they use his name. But what else did Christ teach? Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Christ is talking to the pharisees here but this is applicable today with the Christians and the Hebrews. But I would say more so the Christians who lay aside the commandments of God and teach doctrines of men. So, you judge for yourself, and if you are not able to judge righteous judgment do this. Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
@@pt9474 from what I can see my point still stands. The HR spends their time attacking Christianity. I am in at least 20 HR groups and it’s generallly an attack on us pagans and not evangelizing. The majority will not dialogue with you
I can think of a Channel on here that I used to listen too that is HR. It's a husband and wife, but the wife does almost all the "teaching" because she thinks God is telling her all this directly. Stay away from Philia Ministries. Bad,bad,bad.
@@angelcollector22 that is what I've heard. I was in a group on FB. The group was people who practice head covering. When someone tried to introduce her teachings into the group, I alerted the administrators. I can't begin to tell you how much hate I got. Thankfully the administrators decided against allowing her teachings.
@@juliesix4390 the whole lot is quite protective of her. Have never seen anything like it. Even people that should know better and don’t agree with her teaching give her a pass. It’s bewildering
Shabbat Shalom (blessed Sabbath). Those of us whose eyes have been opened to the wondrous things in Yah’s Torah (Psalm 119:18-19), which our Redeemer, King and High Priest adhered to perfectly and calls us to follow Him in so walking, pray for the eyes of all our brothers and sisters to be likewise opened. It is only by His Spirit and a longing with all our hearts on our part that He opens our eyes to the narrow path Yeshua told us we must walk. Time is short before our Master’s return, we pray you not be found with no oil in your lamps walking down that broad road of the world’s church, but instead doing the will of our Father (Matthew 7:21-22). Read and truly pray Psalm 119 and see if your eyes might not be opened to the truth, which is His Word. Yeshua said: “I am the way, the truth and the life.” Yeshua is the Word made flesh. The Word is the Torah. Torah is the way, truth and life. They are one in the same. Denying Yah’s Word is denying Yah’s Word.
Cultish/Apologia Studios, Have you ever done a video on the Christian Identity Movement? And if not then when will you do a video on the Christian Identity Movement? But I think I know why many do not want to do a video in order to expose this evil movement.
You want to watch an Torah Observer run from a question and contradict their theology and scripture ask them this "Answer the question yes or no. After the Acts 15 council and between the destruction of the temple, where the gentiles expected to keep the Passover as it is found in the Law?
No. But should you keep the holy days contained in scripture and not switch them out with your own Holidays. I don't think running from a question edifies. But also posing a question to only allow for a yes or no response, could be deceiving. One thing you do notice though in Acts 15. Is this. Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. *****Sounds like some law here. No idols, no fornication, no things strangled and blood (dietary). Because in the kingdom of Heaven there's a law. Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (from one month to the next and one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship)....... A future prophecy.
@@pt9474 Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (from one month to the next and one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship)....... A future prophecy. This is saying every day of every week of every month IE it is eternal.
@@pt9474 you can't keep the holy days with out breaking them. SO YOU are willfully breaking the Law by breaking Deu 4 2 and Deu 12 32 which says not to add or subtract from the Law. Did you got to Jerusalem for Sukkot the place the Lord chose or did you keep it in a place of YOUR choosing which is adding and subtracting from the Law. So you arew being a hypocrite and bearing false witness if you say you keep/observe/guard/(insert synonym and semantics here)
@@pt9474 the commands listed in Acts 15 are moral commands, you seem to want to ignore for example that even in pagan societies they believed murder was a crime and honoring ones parents was a good thing
@@JGez83 Did the disciples keep the Holy days? Did Paul? Did Christ? Who told you, that you couldn't keep the law? Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Scripture clearly express that to be part of Israel (GOD's People) it's always been about Circumcision of the Heart, and nothing to do with having blood heritage. 30 It shall happen, when all these things have come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations where Yahweh your God has driven you, 2 and return to Yahweh your God and obey his voice according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that then Yahweh your God will release you from captivity, have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples where Yahweh your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there Yahweh your God will gather you, and from there he will bring you back. 5 Yahweh your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you will possess it. He will do you good, and increase your numbers more than your fathers. 6 Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your offspring, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. Deut. 30:1-7 12 Now, Israel, what does Yahweh your God require of you, but to fear Yahweh your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, and to serve Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 to keep Yahweh’s commandments and statutes, which I command you today for your good? 14 Behold, to Yahweh your God belongs heaven, the heaven of heavens, and the earth, with all that is therein. 15 Only Yahweh had a delight in your fathers to love them, and he chose their offspring after them, even you above all peoples, as it is today. 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff-necked. Deut. 10: 12-16 Circumcise yourselves to Yahweh, and take away the foreskins of your heart, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go out like fire, and burn so that no one can quench it, because of the evil of your doings. Jer. 4:4 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God. Rom. 2: 28-29 9 Is this blessing then pronounced on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it counted? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 He received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they might be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might also be accounted to them. 12 He is the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision. Rom. 4: 9-12
At 39 min he talks about the sabbath & how Jesus is our rest, the problem with that is the rest the scriptures talk about is physical not spiritual, you're to rest from physical labor, from buying and selling, you cannot take that and switch the whole meaning it doesn't logically make sense to derive one from the other.
Dr. Luke was a constant companion of the Apostle Paul from the time that he joined the missionary apostle when he sailed from Troas to Europe. Luke accompanied Paul on his fateful last return trip to Jerusalem, and was an eyewitness to the arrest of Paul in the Temple in Acts 21. The crowd was greatly agitated by the presence of Paul in the Temple, and charged him with bringing Gentiles into the Temple precincts. This was a crime punishable by death. Luke explains that Paul never did bring any Gentiles into the Temple, but he was seen on the streets of Jerusalem with “Trophimus an Ephesian.” Apparently, Paul brought Trophimus with him to Jerusalem so that the apostles and the mother church there could see first-hand the fruits of his labor among the Gentiles. Even though the charge was false, they were able to spread the rumor among the people, and cause a near riot against Paul on the Temple Mount, and for this reason he was arrested. The point is that, when the Jewish people wanted to accuse Paul of bringing a Gentile into the Temple, they chose Trophimus. Why didn’t they choose Luke, who was also with Paul, and was an eyewitness to these events? If Luke were a Gentile, it would have been far easier, and far more believable, to accuse Paul of bringing Luke with him into the Temple, rather than Trophimus. The fact that Luke was not mentioned in the accusation is a strong indication that he was not a Gentile. Another argument for the idea that Luke was a Jew is that he showed such an intimate knowledge of the Temple, more than any other of the Gospel writers. When he described the announcement to Zacharias concerning the birth of John the Baptist, Luke went into considerable detail to describe the rotating selection of the Levitical priests for service according to their families. He further described the position of the priest before the altar of incense, where the angel appeared to Zacharias (Luke 1:8-20). The fact that Luke alone of the four Gospel writers gives this account, and he does so with such vivid detail, argues for his being a Jew, familiar with the Temple procedures. One could even speculate that Luke might have been a Levite as well, as he knew so much about how the Temple operated. Is it logical to assume, without question, that Luke was a Gentile, when he had such a clear understanding of the most intimate workings of the Temple, where no Gentile was allowed to go? Yet another argument is the striking intimacy that Luke had with the mother of Jesus, Mary. He relates the story of the birth of Jesus primarily from Mary’s point of view, and then said that she hid these things “in her heart” (Luke 2:19, 51). How did Luke, of all the Gospel writers, get so close to Mary that he was able to find out what she had hidden in her heart? As close-knit as the Jerusalem church was, and as difficult as it must have been for Gentiles to have gotten to the “inner circle” of the apostolic leadership, it seems highly unlikely that Luke could have gotten that close to Mary if he were a Gentile. Proponents have also argued that the name Luke (Lucas) is, in itself, evidence that he was a Gentile. However, the very names mentioned in Col. 4 as being in “the circumcision” are Gentile names: Aristarchus, Marcus and Justus. Actually, it appears that Luke might have served Mary for a time as her personal physician. This is speculation, but how else could he have had such a close relationship with her, so that he could draw from her the details she had hidden in her heart, and had discussed with few others? Luke would have had the opportunity to consult with Mary on the occasions when Paul made his reporting trips to Jerusalem, and especially while Paul was in prison in Caesarea for two years. Such access would have been quite understandable if Luke were a Jew, but would have been most unlikely if he were a Gentile.
The term gentile Christian is misleading. It is tantamount to saying pagan Christian. When one becomes a Christian, one takes on a new identity, by no means a pagan identity.” There is no such thing as a “Gentile Christian”, the clear indication in the Apostolic writings is that Gentile converts became part of a body of Hebrews known as the “sect of the Nazarenes”, of which the Book of Acts calls Paul the “ringleader”. A true Believer is one grafted into the cultivated olive tree of Israel, they become part of the Hebrew people.
Every single believer in Messiah is grafted in to Israel. There is no distinction between Jew and gentile. If you're grafted into Israel then all the laws and covenants that God made with Israel apply to you. The only thing that changed with Christ's life death and Resurrection for our sins is that we no longer have priests on Earth as he is our high priest in heaven.
So physical circumcision is necessary for gentiles according to your ideology? So you interpretation contradicts Acts 15 and Paul…. You say there is no distinction spiritually yes there is no longer a distinction however physically there are still distinction else you are also saying there is no longer male and female based your interpretation
Thank you for doing this video on the Hebrew roots movement. I had never heard of it before, but I’ve been following a channel on UA-cam that probably subscribes to it. Mostly, I liked the historical and cultural context the pastor gave to the Old Testament. It helped me understand scriptures that never made sense before. As a student of literature, I understand that context is very important. But I had noticed a few things he said, such as the sacrifices will be reinstated in the future. That undermines the core of Christianity. Christ was the sacrifice for all, the sacrifice to end all sacrifices. To reinstate sacrifices would be to say that His sacrifice was not enough.
The only sacrifice that Jesus' death satisfied once and for all, is the once a year Atonement sacrifice. Thus, Yahweh tore the veil. Even the early church continued offering sacrifices in the Temple, for example the apostle Paul was in the Temple offering the sacrifice for a Temple vow when he was arrested for 'teaching against the law,' something he denied ever doing. As believers, we become part of the body of Christ and have peace with God. But we still sin and need to be reconciled to Christ by confessing our sin and being washed with the true Word.
@@exceedingabundantly203 That is a pretty complicated way to go about understanding a rather simple message. "JESUS CHRIST the same, yesterday, today and forever..." Yesterday, as He walked the earth as a perfect Torah keeper Today, as He empowers me by His Spirit to live as He did, never once sinning by transgressing God's law And forever as He reigns according to the law which goes forth from Jerusalem/Zion. He never changes. Every Word of God is pure, perfect and eternal. He is consistent and trustworthy and Rock solid.
@@exceedingabundantly203 There are changes in scripture but God always lets us know ahead of time through His prophets, that way as we wend our way through time, we can know which way to turn to stick with His plan. The coming of Yeshua, our salvation is a centerpiece of prophecy. His first coming was apparently late 'Wednesday' if each 1000 years of history is a day. All throughout the prophecies leading up to His first coming there was hushed talk by candlelight about a great light that would come. This imagery continues as John writes in his epistle that a new commandment is being given which us the same as the old commandment, yet new because the light already came! He was letting us know that the message us still intact as Jesus is the light of the world who told us to be light and let our lights so shine as He lives in us. So, yes, there was a prophesied change. God tore the veil between the Holy place and the Holiest place where the priest went in once a year, trembling, to offer the sacrifice between God and man. The temple described in Ezekiel (which may very well be the milleniel Temple) does not seem to have a separate Holy of Holies either. The atonement to make peace with God was Christ and now the sacrifices are to make peace within His body.
Andrew makes the assumption (not even a fair argument) that only the laws that predate the Abrahamic Covenant are valid for all people at all times. Ok, well...sacrifices, clean eating, and Sabbath keeping all predate Abraham. Abraham (Abram) initiated the tithe, so are we to do away with that too?
Go after the best the other side has to offer, not the worst. Anything other than that is a waste of time. Tell me why the brother in Christ is wrong about this, not the one who rejects essential doctrine.
the problem is that the sheep are being led astray. Its never a waste of time to present a case in order to warn those who may become entrapped. I know when I speak against HR, I am doing so not necessarily for those steeped in it (they matter too), but for those who are new to the faith or searching. If it wasn't for the fact that cults (and I will include the HR movement) hurt people, most people would not take the time to bother warning. It is loving your neighbor to warn them. I have had many who left HR reach out to me and they suffered horribly thinking that they were not doing enough or doing it right. I have seen girls express suicidal ideation for how difficult it was to live up to the perfect standard set.
You seem to be talking about an unbalanced approach, which would always lead to issues in any belief. God forgives us for our sins and helps us along the way. Question for you, do you believe God commands us to obey him in any capacity at all? If so, and I hope your answer would be yes, then it’s logical that anyone could fall into similar despair as you expressed. That being the case, it still doesn’t address wether of not one should observe certain commandments or not.
@@samuelbonura7439 sure, obedience is clearly instructed in the New Covenant. Yes, people can fall into despair for any reason. But, I can tell you having clocked over 35,000 hours in cult studies (I stopped keeping track of the hours awhile ago), despair is the trademark of coming out of a cult. Its simply a fact. I see similarities to cults I have studied and the HR movement and how it affects people.
@@samuelbonura7439 I am not under the Sinai covenant, that I am sure of. If you want to observe feasts, no problem. You have that freedom. I have observed feasts in the past for reasons that had nothing to do with it being required. But to insist that I am disobeying God because I don't stand up everytime I am in the presence of someone with grey hair or someone elderly (Leviticus 19) is not what I believe Paul had in mind when he was instructing people in obedience. (although I do believe that honoring elders in this way is being respectful) The Unuit in the arctic circle would not have survived without eating whale and seal. Its that simple. Neither would the Inuit be able to observe the feast of tabernacles exactly as instructed. But you bet that the Inuit should not steal from their neighbor, kill anyone, or covet their neighbor or sleep with their neighbors spouse. Those instructions can be obeyed wherever you live on this planet. I am not antinomian but I can clearly see that the laws to Israel were given and were to be obeyed in that land. Having no other gods before you can be obeyed no matter where you live. The Inuit have no roads out of where they are and a tiny air strip that is a dangerous flight. I am sure they cannot make it to Israel whenever they were to present to the temple as commanded by Torah. If the temple were standing now,today, most of the world could still not be in complete obedience to laws for Israel. Simply put, they were laws for those living in that land. The disciples were never instructed to take the gospel to all lands and bring them all back to Israel so that they could obey the temple laws. Didn't happen. But the disciples certainly instructed on obeying instructions that would be related to what some people call the moral law. I just refer to them as laws that are based on Gods character and no matter who you are and where you live, you should abide by them. The Unuit don't have a 24 hour sabbath because they have 6 months of darkness and 6 months of light- literally. But they can rest in Christ as their sabbath rest. The law has changed because the priesthood changed. Tell me how the Inuit could follow the law in its completeness if the temple were still standing. I would love to know.
Like I said on Facebook my daughter followed the Hebrew roots movement for a year and a half and got my granddaughter into it . Now Neither one of them believe in God . My heart has been ripped in Two pieces . I have heard a lot of people leaving this movement either go to Judaism or denying God
It may be easy to blame the movement, but the majority of "Christian's" lose their faith in college. And many pastors have drifted into wokeism. And look at John Piper's son, Abraham and the great Francis Schaeffer's son Frankie, avowed atheists. Christianity is all over the map and it is easy to search and become disillusioned. Look at all the denominational differences and differences within. Take any issue (baptism, salvation, spiritual gifts, marriage, etc.) the differences are many and huge.
@@exceedingabundantly203 my Daughter so so much hypocrisy in the movement and more . My daughter has a great influence on my granddaughter . When she left the Hebrew roots movement my granddaughter followed
@@exceedingabundantly203 sorry seem plenty of Hebrew Rooters fall into atheism or just go into Judaism. Because Hebrew Roots/Torah Observance is based on disinformation conspiracy theories and ignoring of historical sources and are just flat out hypocrites. No matter how they twist Paul it is clear that gentile believers are not REQUIRED to observe Sabbaths feasts and dietary laws. If any one says they keep Sukkot THEY are not keeping it according to how the Law says which would be in violation of Deu 4 2 & 12 32 ex. Do not add or subtract from the Law.
@@JGez83 I agree, many people who put their faith in their works within any movement, they will “give up” God. And because within some Hebrew Roots congregation the focus is on obedience and not in Messiah, it will draw in those type of people. I too have seen many people go all Jewish and to other religions within Hebrew Roots, Torah Observant or Messianic Congregations. However, I do have to argue that you can keep Torah outside the land without a Temple Deut 30. And required, no you are not required to keep it in order to be saved. It’s not a salvation thing. But from a covenantal perspective… yes you are required. But it’s not a status thing or a salvation thing. Are you required to do the Lord’s super? Baptism? It’s the same idea.
Obedience to Torah is the result of actually being saved. If you don’t naturally obey the Torah then, according to Scripture, you are not saved. The Bible says that under the “new covenant” the Torah will be written on your heart. That means that if you want to know whether or not you are saved, whether you have really received the true Yeshua Messiah into your life or that counterfeit “other Jesus” Paul warns about, all you have to do is read the Torah and see if your heart responds to it by your having a desire to do whatever it says ” the Torah will be written on your heart. That means that if you want to know whether or not you are saved, whether you have really received the true Yeshua Messiah into your life or that counterfeit “other Jesus” Paul warns about, all you have to do is read the Torah and see if your heart responds to it by your having a desire to do whatever it says because you love your God as a result of being saved. Let me put it another way. If you read in the Torah to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy and your response is something like, “Well, that’s an old Jewish thing, we are not under bondage to the Sabbath,” or, “That’s what weird cult groups like the Seventh Day Adventists or Jehovah’s Witnesses do,” then you are not saved. On the other hand, if, after receiving Yeshua as your Master and Messiah, you read it and say in your heart, “that’s God’s Torah, keep the Sabbath, no work between sunset Friday and sunset Saturday, what a blessing it is to be saved and have God’s instructions to man that I might live in the fullness of His blessing,” then you are probably saved. If you read, “Don’t eat pork, don’t eat shellfish, don’t worship idols (including Santa Claus and the Easter rabbit), and other ‘don’t do’ commandments,” and your response is, “Everything is bad, God doesn’t want me to do anything fun or enjoyable. That stuff tastes so good, why does God say not to eat it. Santa Claus is just a fun thing for the kids, why shouldn’t I set my child in his lap like the children of Israel did when they sat their children in the lap of Molech, doesn’t God realize that these things are a part of my culture,” then you are not saved because your heart is not responsive to the commandments of God. But if you have received the real Yeshua, not that counterfeit “other Jesus”, and you say, “WOW, what a blessing! I can live in health because God told me what He created to bless my body and what animals in His Creation will curse my body. I can serve Him alone, none of these other gods of men. It’s not a list of what is bad, but a warning against what will harm me and my relationship to the Creator,” then you are probably saved.
Galatians were idol worshippers before coming to Christ, not unbelieving Jews. Read Isaiah 56 and the end of Ezekiel and you'll hopefully see why people aren't opposed to the Temple being rebuilt and fulfilled with Jesus the Messiah being the King. Remember when Jesus said "My house shall be a house of prayer for all nations?" That's Isaiah 56. He's coming back to fulfill his earthly kingship, which includes an earthy Temple in Jerusalem.
@@t.scottmajor1316 Nope, read galatians and acts, it was about the circumcision debate which was required in the torah. These people were a constant problematic influence with multiple references in the new testament which is the group the author of Hebrews rails against in the epistle to the Hebrew. If those who when back and sacrificed at the temple the passover lamb and go back to the ot customs that were fulfilled, they were anathema. Read Hebrews 6. Im sorry but your logic makes no sense to the original context of the text.
@@DecimusStark I know Paul is difficult to understand when he is talking about the "law." But, he emphatically promotes God's Law throughout his life in Acts and all of his letters. So, that has to be taken into account when reading passages in Galatians etc. where he seems to be talking negatively about it. My personal belief is that when he talks about "circumcision" in Galatians, he is using that term as code for "converting to a sect of Judaism." And in Acts 15, saying someone has to be "circumcised according to the tradition of Moses" that would refer to being circumcised on the 8th day. Which pretty much would mean it would be impossible to be saved for them. So, then they would have to go through a "conversion" process. Neither of those situations are referring to the actual circumcision that is the covenantal sign of the Abrahamic covenant of faith. To me this is consistent to believe this way because you also have to wrestle with the fact that Paul circumcised Timothy. Under your view of Galatians, that should disqualify both Paul and Timothy. But to me, that shows he is just being obedient to the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant of Faith. Also, Paul was living his whole life in the book of Acts according to the Torah. He went out of his way to Jerusalem for a couple of the Feasts, made animal sacrifices and went before multiple courts professing that he followed the Torah. “You see, brother, how many myriads there are among the Jewish people who have believed-and they are all zealous for the Torah. They have been told about you-that you teach all the Jewish people among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or to walk according to the customs. What’s to be done then? No doubt they will hear that you have come. So do what we tell you. We have four men who have a vow on themselves. Take them, and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. That way, all will realize there is nothing to the things they have been told about you, but that you yourself walk in an orderly manner, keeping the Torah." - Acts 21:21-24
I even came across a video Once where a guy said it was wrong for them to put in the Bible that Jesus ate a fish cuz he never would have eaten a creature
1. Love in Judaism - Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 5:43; Matthew 19:19; Matthew 22:37-39; Hebrews 7:11; 2 Corinthians 3:7-15. 2. Love in Christianity - Matthew 5:44; John 13:34; John 15:12; Galatians 5:22; 1 Corinthians 13; Hebrews 7:12; Hebrews 8. Hebrews 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek [Psalm 110:4], and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law [Jeremiah 31:31-34; Luke 5:36-39]. 2 Corinthians 3:12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face [Exodus 34] so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
We ARE to judge one another, judge spirits, judge doctrine against the Counsel of Theos, or God, or LORD, or whatever word you use in place of YHWH our Elohim. We are to judge among believers, and discipline them. And throw out the divisive and heretical ones. Not many should be teachers. HR hits on modern Christianity's weaknesses. Maybe fix the problems so the big "C" church isn't in error, and then worry about your brother's eye. Neither camp is doing it right "by the Book." CRT? BLM? Lady pastors? LGBTQ embraced? Materialistic holidays with Jesus colored frosting on top? Divorce in the Church, REMARRIAGE after? Premarital sex? Abortions? Men not leading families in headship and stuardship? Doubting biblical accuracy and authority? Charismatic nonsense? Osteen? These are problems Evangelicalism has nursed to maturity since the 1850's. Both Fundamental Evengelicalism and HR have brought me closer to the Truth and full beauty of my Elohim, Yeshush the Messiah-King, and the fullness of Scripture. This divisive shit needs to stop. I say shit because that is exactly the filthy, crude rubbish that it is. Fear God and keep His commandments, for that is man's all.
Sounds like you don't understand "supposed to". Clean animals were in Noah, so yes, Egypt was "supposed to" and just didn't, along with the rest of the nations.
I guess you can say I am in the Hebrew Roots movement. Most of us don't use the term Hebrew Roots because there are so many conflicting beliefs within the HR movement some good some not so good just as in other denominations. There is no central doctrine for the HR movement. It's more of a grassroots movement within Christianity. Most of us like to use the term Torah Observant. Torah Observant is a better term for referring to believers in Messiah who follow God's Law (Torah). Keeping the Torah and the teachings of the Messiah are central to HR's beliefs. Mainly keeping the 10 commandments which Messiah taught, and also keeping the Sabbaths and Feast. There are many different views on the Trinity within the HR movement just as in other denominations. I believe in God's oneness, meaning God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one person, not three persons. John 1 makes it clear that Yahshua is God & creator and the scriptures teach there is only one true God and creator. Andrew Schumacher did a great job explaining the HR movement even if I disagree with his characteristics of the movement. Also, most Torah Obersvant believers do not believe that the animal sacrificial system for sin is still applicable today due to the ultimate sacrifice of the Messiah. Although most Torah Observant believers like to use the Hebrew names of God (Yahweh, Yahovah, etc..) and Messiah (Yahshua), most of us are not dogmatic about it. It is pretty common to still hear people use the term God and Jesus in Torah Observant congregations. The main goal of this movement is to teach that obedience to the commandments of God is still applicable today along with our belief in Messiah.
Respectfully brothers, you guys come across like you have everything figured out. That your reformed Christian thinking is the perfect recipe. I'd be really careful. Your theology is based on interpretations that you've been fed over the centuries that is almost as bad as the pharisees in Jesus' day. Now I know that my comment will be received with contempt - all I can do is pray that you will search your hearts with humility. Last comment: the 2 pages that are absolutely not God inspired that's in the bible, are the pages that split the bible in Old and New Testaments. I challenge you to show me where it's part of God's plan to have these 2 sections in His Word. I would argue those 2 pages are absolutely man-inserted. With HUGE consequences.
Are the mormons Christians? Do they practice polygamy? They would say that they're christians. Not all Hebrews teach polygamy is okay. According to Christ and the Disciples it is wrong.
@@pt9474 read closely. Slim said “polygamy is not off the table”. I read it carefully before I responded under it. He was not generalizing. I agree it’s not off the table. I am in at least 20 Torah groups on Facebook. It’s definitely not off the table for many and many who don’t practice brush it off with those who do or I have heard some say “it’s not a sin but not Fathers best”. Again some do and some don’t. I am sticking with my comment of agreement that it’s not off the table in that movement
@@angelcollector22 It's not off the table for Christians either. I'm stating as a Hebrew it is off the table. Because of Scriptures it is off the table. The groups you are in do not speak for all Hebrews. I'm just bringing some balance here. Because the comment made to an unlearned person, could determine whether to take Hebrews seriously or to brush them off automatically.
I escaped the grip of Satan's Sunday lawless church myself, Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
You should have an actual messianic teacher on. Yeshua was a Jew last I checked. He wasn’t eating pork on Sunday that’s for sure. Thank you though for a pretty fair view. The sacred name ppl are over the top and need to stop. I love Jesus/Yeshua Doesn’t matter to me what name you say. I was saved in Jesus name. I do now prefer to use the Hebrew names but it’s not something to argue about 😅 we have freedom in Christ. No need to be so dogmatic about stuff.
Continued: Another disconnect is the misunderstanding of what the realm of life is. We were born again and given newness of life. So we could walk in His ways by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is indisputable in scripture. The realm of life or realm of death is determined by God Himself (as well as what is holy and what is profane). So that is an issue you can continue to debate as far as law-breaking and law-keeping. Calling those who choose His ways, instructions and blueprint for life ‘wolves’ is damaging to your own show considering you call yourselves those who are not antinomian. The claims of prairie dresses and homesteads is pretty foolish too. I don’t wear them and don’t have a homestead, but neither of those things are sins deserving of these cult labels. I am not sure who Mrs. Schumacher is calling biblically illiterate, but this movement has the cream of the crop when it comes to teachers and biblically sound doctrine. And they are Bereans who do study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I started to listen to the second portion of this when scriptures were actually discussed and the accusations were even more absurd. Both Mr and Mrs Schumacher need to repent for their mischaracterization of this movement. It seems they have now made it a life mission to protect the church against it. That is sad because in doing so they have no basis to refute homosexuality, necromancy, divination, false signs and wonders, trips to heaven (and hell), prosperity, fake healing crusades, Catholic priesthood, Eucharist, worship of Mary etc. It all falls into the category of new covenant made-up laws that Our Messiah did not observe Himself nor did His followers. These were later added and placed under an umbrella of the new covenant. Disconnecting what He did observe (which is the Torah) leaves all of you without any foundation for what you believe or the picture of righteousness that is indicative of the true Messiah. Sad indeed... A covenant you cannot accurately define is not a covenant at all. This is a perfect example of reading into the text ‘modern day Christianity’ and assuming that is the same culture that existed in the early church. When in reality their lives were centered around temple worship (until it was later destroyed), they were keeping the Sabbath, the feast days, the kosher food laws, etc. To remove that context and culture and apply modern Christian practices into what they believed (and did) is a time travel that just isn’t going to work. It’s also not wide spread the progression of rejecting Paul or Messiah as Mrs Schumacher stated. There are many good teachers who clarify Paul’s letters and if anyone does go into this error, they are condemned for that and not considered part of the community from that point on. They may carry these heresies to others, but not with the blessing of the Torah community as a whole. As far as being Abraham’s seed and a fulfillment of that promise? That seed folks is ‘redeemed Israel’. Abraham’s seed is not gentile Christians. Pretty simple actually. Messiah is synonymous with the natural tree, grafted us in, we abide in Him by our obedience to His kingdom rule. It never morphs into something disconnected from that identity. His Bride and God’s people are Israel. The entire Bible is written to those ‘people’. We have just lost the true definition of what that name means and who it is. We lost our identity and with that our purpose. May Our King be glorified in all that we do. [Isa 61:3 NASB95] 3 To grant those who mourn [in] Zion, Giving them a garland instead of ashes, The oil of gladness instead of mourning, The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting. So they will be called oaks of righteousness, The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified. [Rev 22:11-14 NASB95] 11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy." 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Get the fruits, be "One" with Ruach HaKodesch, of such there is NO LAW. Like tripping the rest of your life, except, ALL falls into place. "If my people pray and turn to me..." " I will hear their prayers". Please consider. Turn to the Almighty. Each day... moment by moment.
Genesis 7:2-3 You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; 3 also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep [a]the species alive on the face of all the earth. 14 clean animals and 2 of the unclean, clearly there is a distinction between the clean and unclean prior to Moses. On a side note if they are any of the UNCLEAN animals then the would have a mate and thus the species would become extinct. This is just one of the inconsistencies in the video, if we can now eat unclean meats like pork then why does Isaiah say that on the Day of the LORD that eaters of swines flesh will be destroyed. Isaiah 66:15-17 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord. Why do will the levitical priesthood, animal sacrifices, and the temple all be returning with Messiah as seen in Ezekiel chapters 40-48. Lastly Two House theology is literally ALL over your Bible, you need to have someone like Zach Bauer from New2Torah on the show instead of teaching it secondhand. Maybe Andrew and Zach could have a civil debate, I’d love to see the outcome of that and Zach would agree I am sure.
So you expect Christmas, Easter, Bacon in heaven right and when you meet Jesus and his church they are on the wrong side not you. You came to free us from God and all his plans executed through his feasts and prophecies. "Christians" who identify as an animal, orange or new gender and who marry a camel all say the same thing - back then we had laws and they are not for us, we're under grace love and lots of meaningsless words that are less inspiring than listening to a pig farting. Let me answer you satan, God indeed said what he said, and he meant what he meant, and he started what he will finish amen.
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ean.link/bahnsenu
I escaped the grip of Satan's Sunday lawless church myself, Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
I can do all things through Christ,, Lets test that, Nobody can obey Fathers commandments. (Keep the Law) These people did , Luke 1:5-6.
Here is an idea, instead of getting the information second hand just invite one of the predominant teachers of hebrew roots on the show and ask questions and have a respectful dialog.
If they did that then the audience would actually see the truth lol, it’s best to get information from the source and compare it.
I'm sure they would. Shoot them a message for who you think would be someone who could explain it well. This is just an overview like they said, and if it's this guy's first hand experience why are you calling it second hand?
@@stuartmcleod8490 it just feels like they are trying to paint a shadow on the movement. They mentioned some of the headliners "Psalm 119 Ministries" and multiple people shouted out Bill Cloud in their first episode. What they decided to do here was not the right way.
What truth? The snarky "Read your Bible" remark every other Hebrew roots person says when asked a question?
I would love to open a dialogue on the “Hebrew Roots” movement.
I’m a messianic believer. Nothing burdensome about keeping Shabbat or his high holy days. I love the whole Bible. Shabbat Shalom ♥️
no one is considering that "burdensome", but it shouldn't be something to kick someone to the curb for not doing so either when according to Romans 6:14 (KJV), it's grace we're under, not the law because of Jesus Christ though.
Peace Brothers. Seems like it is time to interview some of the most respected teachers in this movement whoever they are? When I was in Israel a asked a wise Jewish man "how many forms of Judaism are there in Israel?" He said "how many Jews are there in Israel?" I responded, "I think around 7 million." And he said "there you have your answer." This can easily be said of Christianity as well. We have over 2 Billion believers in over 35,000 different denominations all thinking they are the ones who have all the truth. The people I know that would be called "Hebrew Roots" tell me that they are just try to walk like Jesus. That seems like a Biblical idea to me. They say they are saved by grace through faith. No signs of them being burden by the law. They love keeping the Sabbath and Feasts just like Christians love Christmas and Easter. and going to church on Sunday. However I must say that these Hebrew Rooters are the correct ones in relation to the Holy days. Hope you bring on a Hebrew Rooter teacher next time, looking forward to it. When persecution comes I think we will hopefully all be roll together. Blessings and love.
Overall I appreciate how honest and respectful you guys approached this topic. You did a pretty fair assessment of the overall ideas of the Hebrew Roots. And, while I now have a more Hebrew Roots outlook on scripture, I didn't used to. I used to think people doing this stuff seemed weird and different too.
My biggest critique on this Pt2 video would be that you think following God's Torah to be a burden or a heavy yoke. I don't think that was or is the intention of the Torah at all. Our family has been resting on Shabbat for several years now starting on Friday evening with a wonderful meal made by my wife. Our 10 children love that meal and our next 24 hours because my wife and I do our best to be a lot more present than we are during the other 6 days of the week. That makes it a huge blessing to both my children and to us. No one in our family sees that as a burden. I would have to say the same thing for celebrating the other Feasts throughout the year. We look forward to them. And really, if we didn't have Jesus (the King of the Jews) as our saviour, I don't know why I would do any of them in the first place. He is the reason we even started thinking about those things.
I wouldn't tell people they have to do Shabbat, just like I am not going to tell people they have to celebrate their birthday. It's a celebration our freedom in Christ and directing our hope forward to our eternal rest with Him. What a gift that is.
Yes, when a family keeps sabbath it always becomes the children's favorite day of the week.
The burden is in keeping the whole of the law, not just the parts you want. Jesus clearly presents his yoke as light in contrast to the law of Moses as heavy.
@@lordboston05 I used to think that way too. But I have changed my opinion on that more recently. Here is why, God told Israel "For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off." - Deuteronomy 30:11. John wrote "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." (1 John 5:3). David says that the Torah is perfect and restores his soul. And like David, Paul also says he delights in the Law of God. Again, not trying to convince you to follow it yourself, but I don't think Law of God is the burden that is mentioned in Acts 15. You may want to look into the Oral Torah of Rabbinic Judaism to see if those additional Laws added to God's Law is maybe the burden that is too hard to bear in Acts 15. That's what I am thinking, but I could be wrong.
@@lordboston05 Regarding Jesus mentioning his Yoke, he also states "And you will find rest for your souls." He is quoting Jeremiah 6:16 "This is what the LORD says: “Stand at the crossroads and look. Ask for the ancient paths: ‘Where is the good way?’ Then walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it!’
@@lordboston05 The comparison of the yoke is in contrast to the Pharisees. The laws given through Moses are not difficult. Deut 30:11-14.
Keeping the Torah is not a burden, if it is a burden, there is a problem. Your focus is on the wrong thing. I find freedom in celebrating the feast and keeping Torah. Keep the Torah - It’s not for salvation, it’s not for works. It doesn’t make me a better person. It’s a blessing to keep Torah.
I think a good analogy is the Lord’s Supper. Why do people do it? So they have too for salvation… no. But it’s s memorial, it’s a reminder, it’s an experience. Same is try for the feast and me. The Lord’s Supper is not s burden, celebrating Christmas and Easter is not a burden. Neither is keeping Torah when it is done with the right focus and intention.
Im curious when you say you keep the Torah, Are you keeping the whole Torah such as the ceremonial washings or just observing the feasts?
Perfectly said
@@jasonbruton1692 when you say ceremonial washings can you be specific. If it has to do with the Temple, then no because there is no temple right now. But we do keep kosher, wear Tzi tzi as well as the other stuff we can do.
@@LivingWithEve if you didn't go to Jerusalem for Sukkot you are keeping a man made tradition of Sukkot and not the Sukkot in the Torah
@@JGez83 Deut 30 says we can keep the Torah outside the land.
What I’m really understanding from this conversation about the Hebrew Roots Movement is that it all comes back to INTENTION. I know people who observe the Sabbath, but the aren’t legalistic about it and find great blessing in that time. I know people who observe the feasts, but are not legalistic about it. If your INTENTION is purely to understand and connect with those Hebrew roots, that is not the problem. The problem comes when we start predicating our salvation and our righteousness on observing these laws, more or less diminishing Jesus’s sacrifice and the gift of that sacrifice removing our need to work for our salvation by strictly following the law.
I am a pastor, a shepherd of a local flock, and I have been accused of this label. I don't generally like labels, so don't refer to myself as Hebrew Roots, but I'd be happy to discuss the positions and perspectives with y'all as someone who is a part of the Body of Messiah and would hold to many of the beliefs of this movement.
“So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!”
-Gamaliel
❤🔥❤ . . .🎯
"Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly." Proverbs 3:34
A lot of the ideas too is through the Book of Enoch, Jubilees, & Maccabees...etc. Being the end times watchmen as Natsarim is a huge one. Which is what I'm currently detoxing from by the discernment of the Holy Spirit & help through fellowship through my church family and celebrate recovery. For me it was stemming from my need for hidden knowledge and my pride for needing to be the most obedient to the Most High. And for me especially, I have a background in gnosticism, alchemy, eastern religions, mythologies, theosophy,, and the list goes on over 12+ years. But, saved in Jesus Christ mid-August. But, surrendering to Him all over again through repentance of my incessant need to know the truth and being honest, my need to know everything. The first step is being honest with ourselves and others and admit we are POWERLESS. And in need of our powerful Savior. Amen!
I just started looking into the natsarim stuff and I’m still confused about where the truth is. I relate to what you’re saying a lot.
@@TheTheresaI What helped me the most, was remembering the moment I was delivered. Who and what powerful Name did I call upon to surrender to and who cam to save me: Jesus Christ of Nazareth the true Son of the Living God. And I surrendered all over again---my pride, my "knowledge", my mind, and ALL the researching. I stopped looking at outside sources. I solely prayed, read my Bible, stuck with my Bible study, and admitted to my friends who I knew would hold me accountable to my walk in Jesus Christ. I told Holy Spirit to continue renewing my mind by taking away all "my" knowledge I don't need. I no longer wanted my mind to be unfiltered, but purified. Close the portals of the world and of man around us. Holy Spirit will guide you in Spirit and in Truth. And start with reading the book of Galatians. It REALLY REALLY helped me.
You need to get Caleb Hegg or Tim Hegg on here to explain their perspective on the Hebrew Roots movement / Messianic Jew. They have a perspective that is not being presented. I know Andrew had Caleb on his podcast. Both are very solid guys, and willing to talk and discuss.
Also I do agree and appreciate that you acknowledge that there is a spectrum. And I personally would put many in the category of cultish however there are messianic believers that are solid believers. We do attend a messianic synagogue, I consider myself a Christian and I believe in the trinity. We are not Hebrew Roots or two house. There is a distinction and it’s bothersome that we get grouped together.
I would agree with this. Hebrew roots has infiltrated and hijacked many messianic groups but there remains some who shun hr teachings. Some messianic groups observe feasts etc as cultural and denounce attempts to put believing Gentiles under the law
Amen from another messianic. Good on ya, sister.
@@angelcollector22 They still believe all Christians are under Sabbath and dietary laws, though.
When people hear that some who follow Hebrew Roots dont believe the trinity, they immediately think that they must be denying that Jesus is God. That is a separate doctrine altogether. Many in Hebrew Roots who deny the trinity would be comfortable with asserting a doctrine of Tri-Unity that does not say they are three separate persons, but rather, that they are three separate witnesses. Scripture itself uses that language under the wisdom of the Holy Spirit who inspired it. This distinction is important because texts themselves explain how the Holy Spirit who indwells believers is the Spirit of Christ. And Christ Himself emphasizes that He is one with the Father. Zechariah clarifies that it is not until Christ comes the second time to reign exercising all authority that their names are One.
In the meantime, Christ is clearly the only way we ever have interaction with Yahweh, either in Christophenies when He makes appearances on earth in physical form, or as His Spirit indwells us.
A cultural reason that the trinity is a stumbling block is because it was used historically as a reason to slaughter Jews and Muslims though many of them taught about the One whose back parts were seen by Moses, who ate with the elders at Sinia, who negotiated over Sodom and Gomorrah with Abraham and wrestled with Jacob etc. And who also recognized the Ruach HaChodesh (Holy Spirit of God) but who were not comfortable with assenting to the christian doctrine as it was articulated. In other words, they talked about 3 ways God exists in time and space but never had a doctrine of the trinity. Such a doctrine is never delineated in scripture though the deity of Christ is asserted and identified as a stone of stumbling to those who are veiled.
@Eric H
Yes, it would seem that the ship could use a bit of tightening up. We need to reevaluate old theological constructs to trim saggy areas and bring them closer to Biblical text.
To believe in the deity of Christ is not even the same thing as believing the trinity. Yet they claim that the grounds for maintaining it as central are because of its centrality. For years the faith of Abraham noted the presence of the Holy Spirit of God as well as Elohim as a Father source and having physical representation referred to as Lord.
It is extremely important that we put our faith in His Word. Not for any membership except to be written into the Lamb's Book of Life.
Your Sabbath looks like every other day of the week for you? How is that set apart?
Zechariah 14:16 Sukkot is required along with certain sacrifices, so why not today? There will be punishment for those that do not.
No. There won't.
@@PhrenicosmicOntogeny Zechariah says otherwise 🤷🏻♂️
It would be beneficial for the audience if a teacher from the Hebrews perspective answered these questions.
I think they would be more than willing to defend themselves on your platform.
The gentleman answering the questions is sitting in a teachers seat or position. Answering the questions as if he truly is learnt in the doctrine. Christ says keep the commandments, was he wrong?
We know that no man is Justified by the works of the law. But we still keep the law as Paul says In Romans 3:31. Besides sacrifice because we know Christ is the perfect sacrifice dying once for all. Hebrew 9:28.
So which Christ do you preach? The one in scripture says keep his commandments? What’s wrong with that?
@Eric H 🤦♀️
I agree, getting a person that is within the messianic movement, familiar with two house and Hebrew roots but solid in major theology, that would be helpful.
Or you just don't like the facts being presented so you have to blow smoke 🙄
Exactly this.
I think both Part 1 and Part 2 were very well done as someone (myself) who wanted to be so obedient to the Most High that I started very small in learning Hebrew, then being a Messianic, then, moved into Sacred Name movement, then Feast, Torah, & Sabbath keeping as a Natsarim-----then seeing my friends in the same exact place getting pulled into the Quran and Islam as the New "New Covenant" through the "Last" Prophet Muhammad and the Quran being the new fulfillment and the Bible being secondary text. Even with good intentions we can slowly over time allow the devil a foothold with our constant need for searching for more, reading in between the lines, believing we receive secret knowledge that no one knows, and needing to confirm our belief in Jesus instead of RESTING in the knowledge and understanding of what He truly did for is on the cross. The peace that surpasses all understanding. And Andrew is right, no one is saying to NOT celebrate the Feasts out of your own freedom and love for Him, but when we make it a NEED in terms of salvation we are indeed turning from our Savior. We walk by His Spirit who helps, councils, and equips us to continue following Him---Galatians 5. And it's a very confusing and isolated path when He did not give us a Spirit of confusion, but of peace---or a spirit of division, but of unity in the Body. I do believe that God uses Messianics to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ----as Peter preached to the Jews and Paul preached to the Gentiles (and even Jews himself!). And a lot of the DEEPER things of the Hebrew Roots Movement start denying Jesus as God cloaked in the flesh. They are run by pride, just as I was when I believed I was more special in receiving this knowledge. Which is not true. It's always about coming back to a place of surrender. Knowledge isn't power, it's a false sense of power. Especially when it stops lining up with His true Word. True knowledge belongs to God and He gives it to each as He sees fit.
Andrew Schumacher said, at about 27:30 into the video, ""When the new covenant is more fully described and taught on in the Book of Hebrews, it means the end of the mosaic covenant and that's the part they (Torah observant people) can't abide by". I wonder if he would care to elaborate on that and show us exactly where that is? The last time I looked, there is no such place, anywhere in the bible... Andrew has some real serious theological issues with the book of Hebrews. I'm open to being proved wrong, are you?
Well it starts with the word "covenant" being added to Hebrews in 8:13 and 9:1. That word is not there in the Greek translation. When you remove those words and re-read the verses in context starting in chapter 7 then you can see that what is being spoken of is the Levitical priesthood. It became "decayed and waxed old" meaning it was of men and became corrupted. The order of Melchizedek is replacing it with Jesus at it's head.
Perhaps you know this but in case you dont...Any thing italicized in the Bible was added from the Greek. Sometimes the additions fit and assist the context (you, me, us etc. Thought sometimes the words change the context of several verses or chapters or even beliefs. Keep in mind that Satan has an agenda too and while he cannot get rid of the Bible he can and has messed with it.
@@usmcPath Yes, that was my point in asking Andrew the question regarding his comment on Hebrews. Its very typical for people to go to Hebrews when attempting to demean Torah observant people. The problem is, they don't have a very good understanding of the text, other than from an English translation perspective.
@@livingthecountrylife360 Yea, I gathered that was your point. I was expounding on your thought for those that might read your comment. Sorry if I made it seem otherwise.
Blessings
The word covenant IS in the Greek of Hebrews 8. Jesus is called the mediator of a better covenant in verse 6. The passage also quotes God declaring that he will make a new covenant. That's why it is sometimes added to other verses in the passage during translation. To make things clear to the reader. It's not some sneaky, misleading insertion of words influenced by Satan; it's context-based clarification. Anybody who reads this thread down the road, just go to Hebrews 8 and read the whole chapter. I beg you. Check the Greek too, if that's your thing. Feel free. It's clear what's under discussion. It's not just the priesthood that was passing away. It was the old covenant.
The passage begins talking about a new covenant brought about by Christ's priesthood in verse 6. It goes on to quote (from Jeremiah) God speaking, promising a new covenant, in verses 8-12. And the word covenant is there in the Greek for verses 8, 9, and 10. It's there in the Hebrew of Jeremiah as well. Check it yourself. So, God speaks and promises to establish a new covenant. Verse 13 then says "In saying, 'new,' He has made obsolete the first." "He" from verse 13 is clearly God, who was just quoted. What new thing did God just speak about? "We've been talking about a new covenant for the last several verses. But now, without warning, I'm going to stop talking about that and go back to the previous topic." That wouldn't make much sense. Not only that, but God never said the word "new" about the priesthood in the previous chapters. The covenant is the only new thing spoken of by God. In fact, it's the only time the word "new" is used by anyone to describe anything until that point in Hebrews. In addition, the only thing explicitly referred to as "new" in any verse throughout Hebrews is the covenant mediated by Jesus. It's simply inescapable that a new covenant, specifically, is under discussion in 8:13. You have to majorly twist the passage not to see that.
Moreover, Hebrews 7 already talked about the priesthood passing away. And it says in verse 12 that a change of priesthood requires a change of law. So even if Hebrews 8 meant only the priesthood was passing away, which it clearly doesn't, that wouldn't help you. According to Hebrews 7, a transformation of the priesthood also necessitates a corresponding alteration in the law. The wording in Greek basically says, "from necessity, a change of law also takes place." Verse 18 also says "So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless." This is in contrast to Christ, who offers "a better hope, by which we draw near to God."
Your assessment of Hebrews 9 is terribly flawed as well. Greek manuscripts do not have verse or chapter distinctions. Hebrews 9 would generally continue uninterrupted from Hebrews 8 unless the writer ran out of room. There's no need to add the word "covenant" in 9:1 for the same reason there wasn't in 8:13. It's implied necessarily by the context of the immediately-preceding verses. 8:13 clearly refers to the covenant discussed in the context of verses 6-12. Well, in the original Greek, 8:13 and 9:1 would be right next to each other. That makes 8:6-13 the context for 9:1 as well. Even if that were not the case, 8:13 would still be the context for 9:1. Otherwise, what's being discussed? "The first" had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary. The first what? The first tabernacle? No, it says the first had a tabernacle. The first priesthood? No, the priesthood was a part of the regulations. So what does first mean? Obviously the first covenant. The covenant is what established the priesthood, the regulations of worship, and the exact details required for the tabernacle.
Just think about it logically. This is still how we read books written today. When you start a new chapter, it typically continues directly from the last. You don't assume a topic change without warrant. Not to mention that the old and new covenant are specifically referenced again just a few verses later. The ark of the what? The covenant. The tablets of the what? The covenant. This demonstrates that the topic has not shifted. We are talking about the old covenant. The first 10 verses discuss the tabernacle and sacrifices and such under the old (first) covenant. After that, the new covenant is described in contrast. "That's why verse 11 begins with "but," to distinguish the new from the old. And, again, the writer uses the word covenant in the Greek of 9:15. Twice. None of this helps your case. You twist yourselves and the text into pretzels trying to escape the clear meaning. Nobody is demeaning you. You're just wrong.
@@PhrenicosmicOntogeny This is the only place in the entire text that one could even remotely think/misconstrue that God's covenants are done away with. If that were actually true then it would be confirmed in numerous other places. It would be just way too big of a deal not to. (Much like thinking the Sabbath has been done away with or replaced, lol) Men might break covenants, but God does not. If God does away with the covenants He makes, then we are all in severe trouble. But I digress. Chapter eight, and even before, gives us the context of what "had faults". The covenant God makes does NOT have faults. The priesthood of men certainly did/do have. To begin with, the new covenant talked about here is from Jer 31. I think you should go and read the entire thing. It doesn't even make sense that God would make His covenant "obsolete". In fact, again, "palaioo" doesn't exactly mean obsolete and especially doesn't mean or imply "done away with."
Died to the law of sin. Not God's law. So sad Im hearing words like yoke and burden when addressing God's law.
Why wouldn't a Believer want to discover, learn and keep the Father's holy days? They are blessings. Ive personally received a greater understanding of Scripture while celebrating His Moedim. 💫
Man-made traditions are the burden. They promote idolatry, debt, paganism. Yoke of Sin.
Do not add or take away. Deut 4:2
Believers are seeking out what would please the Father most, out of love for Him. Passover, Sukkot, Fellowship on Shabbat etc. are truly a joy. ❤
*So sad Im hearing words like yoke and burden when addressing God's law*
Actsd 15:5 But there rose up a sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That the gentiles must be circumcised, and commanded them to keep the Torah of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together to consider the matter. 7 And after much disputing, Peter got up, and said, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made a choice among us, that the Gentiles by me should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knows the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did to us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now why tempt God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we either were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we will be saved, even as they.
Peter said the Torah of Moses was a yoke that the Israelite forefathers nor the disciples could bear. It was a yoke, a yoke is a heavy instrument that fits over the animal for plowing, Peter referred to it as heavy yoke, they had hundreds of laws, certainly more than 613 they had to keep, and when they failed to keep any of them God punished them for it, with either sword, famine, plague or the wild animals.
It's not as glorious as the HRM paint it, the OT is God destroying his people over and over again for failure to keep the torah perfectly, it was a yoke in that sense!
@@Power88987 finish out the verse you're quoting; . . . " For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.” the new Believers were to stop those few things immediately. The disciples new that by going to Synagogue every Sabbath the new believers would hear the Torah being read, and would continue to grow and learn.
"On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ’And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" -Matthew 7:23
"Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law." -Paul Romans 3:31
"for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." - Luke 6:45
"Blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the LORD!" Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart, They do no iniquity; they walk in His ways.
-Psalm 119 is an excellent read.
@@Power88987 also the yoke Peter speaks of is salvation by circumcision. None gain salvation on their own accord. It is by grace through faith alone. Obeying the Father's commands are a blessing. To learn and study His word is wisdom. His love language. ❤
@stephanierivka3648 if you don't get circumcised, you're not following the law.
@According_To_Matt That is correct. Circumcision of the heart comes first, which compels circumcision of the flesh. A perfect example of that is baptism. A person is baptized by the Holy Spirit first before they feel compelled to obey the law of God to then proceed with water immersion. If you're doing anything without the Spirit (heart), it's all pointless. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws..And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." -Ezek 36
The 2 houses of Israel is found in many places. In the book Romans, Paul tells us that we are grafted into Israel if we believe Yeshuah is the son of God. We are adopted into Israel and become heirs to Abraham. It’s by faith, we won’t know what tribe we are attached to until we are gathered for the Greater Exodus. The first chapter of John tells us the Jesus is God, but nowhere does scripture claim the Holy Spirit to be God. The Holy Spirit is just the Spirit of God not a separate God head. God placed his Spirit on many people and Jesus gives us his spirit as a comforter. Scripture says God is one not two or three. Jesus did not do away with the law, he did say if you love me keep my commandments. Keeping the commandments does not give you salvation it only shows you love him just as keeping the Sabbath is a sign for those who love God. Salvation is a gift from God that none of us are worthy of. We keep the feast because just like wearing the tzitziot, it is commanded by God, it has nothing to do with sacrifices. Israel had daily sacrifices twice a day since we have no temple or sacrifices our prayers are our sacrifices. Most of us have moved beyond name pronunciation, that is a ridiculous argument that takes away from the teachings of scripture. The scriptures are instructions for us to live by. Walk out your own salvation.
Sabbath was given to all humans Creation week.
Noah knew which animals were clean and unclean.
Everyone 'called out' holy, eklesia is called out to live His way instead of our way.
Isaiah 56 how do you interpret it?
Another thing I would like to point out. There are many sects of Christian’s claiming to be “in the truth”. I am sure the hosts of the show claim as well to be “in the truth”.
But what does the scriptures say?
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
John 7:38 KJV
We must believe on Christ as the scriptures tell us.
Careful sitting in seats of influence claiming that a particular doctrine is false. If it is false.
Why is it false according to the scripture? Not according to opinion or philosophy.
Right?
24:00 no that is not the main distinction....maybe some quibble about the word 'renewed?' The main distinction is that with the new covenant, the law is not abolished, the law moved to our hearts (Heb 10:16-26). This means that when you are saved, you will WANT to follow God's laws. God's laws did not become erased or malleable so that men can change them. The law stands forever Psalm 119:160....'law' is not the same thing as 'covenant.'
How many "Introductory Overview" videos are you guys going to do on this. These videos have been long, vague, boring and frustrating. You've got three guys here that admittingly are not experts on this movement droning on and on with unanswered hypothetical questions. I wish you guys would get to some substance or move on to a better topic. Y'all have definitely done better in the past.
I concur. I watched both on 2x speed and still felt like it was chasing tails, not making much of a case, and definitely not a biblical case against it. Other than the way they presented with an obvious distaste for it.
It is a reflection of the movement itself. It is vague and confusing. Here is a better video: ua-cam.com/video/dDIc-g6n1bQ/v-deo.html
Heresy hunters that admittedly are not familiar with what they're speaking against...
I have a honest question for the Hebrew roots people. What law was given from Adam to Abraham since there was no Mosiac law?
Where are the feast days, Sabbaths , dietary law, etc pre Moses leaving Egypt?
Scripture unfolds as a progression of Revelation, first laying a foundation and then building on it. Sabbath was given Creation week to all mankind. It is the first full day that Adam and Eve spent together. A picture of the rest that would come when Jesus reigns during the 7th millenia. Noah understood the difference between clean and unclean animals. There seems to have been a priesthood after the order of Melchisadec as there is in the heavens.
It is important to note that Jesus, our only hope for salvation told His followers to obey the scribes and Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat (teaching Torah) but not to practice as they do (empglhasizing traditions of men). The modern church has completely ignored the times God appointed in Torah trading them entirely for the traditions of men. Jesus also told the leper to "offer the gift Moses commanded" and then commissioned His disciples telling them to teach all He had commanded. He told us that Moses wrote about Him and then He told us that if we dont believe Moses, we wont believe even if someone rises from the dead.
He clearly told us that not one bit of the law will pass away until all of it us fulfilled. He still hasn't come the second time.
@@danasalomon3721 Your reasoning is flaw because you are advocating from silence and didn't answer the question that I ask.
Where in the old Testament did Noah celebrate the feast days?
Did Abraham wear fringes?
@@joshuamelton9148
At this point we are to walk empowered by the Spirit of Christ as He walked.
@@joshuamelton9148 Genesis 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
How would Noah know what was clean and unclean unless the most high had revealed it to him or it was past on to him since the beginning (Adam and eve)...
@@michaellacourse1013 You are reading into the text and trying to justify the dietary laws that was not there pre Mount Sinai.
Also keep in mind the book of Genesis was written hundreds of years after the events of the flood.
Also the dietary laws is nowhere in the bible prior to Leviticus chapter 11 where it was first mention.
Also the other dietary laws that is mentioned pre mosiac law is found in
Genesis 9:3-4
"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."
This is King James version if you are wondering about the translation.
This was part of the Noahic Covenant that was given to all mankind. Notice the keys words in verse 3 "Every moving thing that live". It doesn't say you can only eat this or that animal. You would thing that this was a very important instruction to pass down to all mankind when God made this Covenant to Noah. The only thing that is prohibited is eating animals alive.
If anything you could have made an argument that humans were vegetarians and they did not eat meat until after the flood.
40:35 Neither are Jews! Also, Yeshua functions as our high priest in a perfect temple in heaven, offering continual sacrifices on our behalf. (Read Hebrews chapters 7-9) This doesn't abolish God's appointed times!
Hello from Okinawa, Japan!! ❤️
Hello! Go to beginning of wisdom after this for q and a with Andrew Schumacher!
Hello from Tokyo, Japan!
Wow! are you doing ministry there?
Marine? 🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸
My son is heading there from Lejuene next month for his deployment. Semper Fi!
The first ad right before this played was a Hebrew Bible ad 😂
21:30 like Yeshua did when he spoke against tradition? (Mark 7:9-13, Mat 15:11-13, Luke 11:37-54, Mark 7:1-8, Mat 12:1-8, Mat 12:10-13, Mat 23:1-4, Mat 23:27-28) You are saying that 'calling out bad tradition' is a litmus test for a 'cult' when it is literally imitating Christ (1 Cor 11:1)
Become as an infant in understanding, as if knowing or being taught nothing, forgetting all bias, prejudice and doctrines of men, then read from Genesis to Revelation. Blessings! 💙
33:32 Noooooo....the law of God is NOT a burden. The law is a delight. Read Psalm 119 for an average Torah-observant person's view of the law. Praise God for His law. The law is also not 'hard' (Deut 30:11)
If I denied the word trinity would that be heretical?
I can't stand that word. It neither captures the essence of Elohim and nor defines Him the way He wants to be defined.
This is a stupid question. Denying the doctrine is heretical. Denying or choosing not to use the word would not be.
So Apologia, you all want feed back as.you stated in the show.
You started this episode 2 on Hebrew roots with the premise that Hebrew roots is wrong on many levels without examining the scriptural reasons many Hebrew roots believe what they believe. You also let us know one must believe in the trinity to be saved or in the the right "church", according to your comments on the show; which I would like to know where that teaching is in the scripture.
About mid way into the show you finally had some scripture brought up. But It was only part of a chapter being read out of Jeremiah 31. So it was not an honest assessment of what that part of scripture is saying completely. The rest of scripture used throughout the rest of your show was the opinion of you and your guest "expert". And all of the scripture referenced were partial verses and not complete thoughts of the entirety of the scripture and context of what the quoted scripture actually teaches.
You then ended the show with calling the Hebrew roots movement and believer a wolf in sheep's clothing quoting Paul's warning about wolves coming into the "Church".
You are doing a disservice to the body of Messiah, in my opinion, by not having an honest debate, as they did in Messiahs time and in the time shortly after the Resurrection, like in Paul's time (i.e.Athens)
It is my assessment the Hebrew roots movement as you call it is a move of the Father in Heaven, the Holy Spirit or Word of the LORD, is teaching His people these things, just as Messiah foretold, when He said He would send another helper and He would teach you all things.
You may just be fighting against the LORD (YAHUAH, YHVH, JEHOVAH, YAHWEH, you pick) and not even realize it.
These guys don't want dialogue. All of these episodes on HR is just them scratching each other's ears. They use the worst single examples of people they have met or heard of and then say that they are generalizing. They would never consider studying these things out, as it might conflict with what their teachers say.
Having grown up in and come from the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement and having a father who is still VERY into it, this was a frustrating episode to watch. I do believe that the movement has a lot of cult-like aspects to it, but this guy didn’t really hit that point at all. And he doesn’t seem to know a whole lot about it. He is kind of all over the place and many things he said in this video sounded like rambling to me. I also found some of his theology to be quite flawed, such as his view on the sabbath. How can you say in one breath that we don’t need to keep the sabbath but also that you keep it every day? And then in the next breath say that all the moral laws are carried over for everyone and then continue to state the Ten Commandments, EXCEPT the 4th one, because you just said we don’t need to observe it. I’m not a seventh day sabbath observer anymore, but I get the argument, and definitely believe Gods people should be observing a sabbath every seventh day, not out of legalistic obligation, but out of obedience and it being a gift made for man. Just thought I’d share for anyone scrolling comments before/while watching.
I don’t think I understand what you are saying here. 🤷🏽♂️ You don’t t observe Shabbat, but you think it is commanded by God? 🤷🏽♂️ With love and respect. I am just a little confused. Just for clarity, Are you a believer/follower of Jesus?
I have had a lot of interactions with people who call themselves “messianic” and he is spot on.
Does the gospel have any Hebrew roots?
I love this channel and show however this guy claiming to be knowledgeable in the Hebrew Roots movement is not knowledgeable at all. I do not consider myself a Hebrew rooter, very far from it, but I do believe the whole Bible. You guys might want to consider bringing on somebody who actually knows what the Hebrew Roots movement believes. Someone who can actually attest to what they believe in and why and a very self-controlled knowledgeable manner. I would highly recommend Zachary Bauer from new2Torah or Sean Griffin from Kingdom in context. Both of those men are highly knowledgeable in the Hebrew Roots movement, very self-controlled, and incredibly knowledge in the scriptures. If you guys would consider bringing someone on like these two men you would actually be able to have an intelligent conversation about what Hebrew Roots actually is.
Agreed
Absolutely agree! I was thinking this through the first two parts, “I wish they had someone on that was truly knowledgeable about the movement!”
@@Nicole-eu4vx they are correct that there are sooo many different beliefs lumped under Hebrew Roots.
I consider myself a first century Judeo-Christian. I believe that Jesus (Yeshua) is God. I also do not believe that the Law was done away with. I love His Torah, Yeshua is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the linear thread from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.
I have been listening this conversation and I can’t believe you guys are talking about other peoples belief of Hebrew roots or messianic and you have no knowledge on that, you are saying false testimonies against the people who believe in that and mislead so many people that are follow you. None of you are qualified to speak about this subject with your little or wrong knowledge and I don’t know if your intention is to misinform your audience.
If you really honest and want to find the truth why don’t you invite guess who are believing in Hebrew root, messianic, etc and not only from your opinion. Recommend Jim Staley, 119 ministers, new2torah
They stated in Part 1 that he is using it as an umbrella term. He's not bashing anyone. And, yes, he is actually very knowledgeable in quoting A LOT of people (myself included) who are in a deep stumbling block who throw away the deity of Jesus altogether. This message is for specific people that God is trying to reach. Not every message is for every person. If you want to hear from other people's perspectives then read the other people's books or watch their channels. This is for people who are being led astray by false doctrine---adding to and taking away from both the New Testament and Old Testament. There are people out there who are throwing away the New Testament altogether. They are absolutely reaching and speaking to the correct people that God has predestined to hear this message to bring them back to Him 🙏🤍🕊 they are not bashing anyone for working out their salvation. They're pointing out the dangers of when we decide to go to a works based system instead of justification by the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And remembering that people under the Law did NOT have the Holy Spirit inside of them. So, they kept in step with the Spirit, by trying to keep in step with the Law. We have the Spirit within us through being born again in Jesus Christ, who councils, guides, and equips us; who knows the Law, & the thoughts of God, and guides us in them and by them to keep us from walking in our flesh & doing what we want (Galatians 5). It keeps us following Him and focusing on Him. And if we're staying focused on Him, we are abiding in Him, therefore, abiding by His laws.
Then Andrew around 40 minutes in decides to take on the Kosher laws and then directly to the Sabbath, lol. Brother, even two of the four rulings at the Jerusalem council were directly related to the food laws! Oh, and then it tells us why, " for from ancient generations, Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”. To funny! In other words, okay let's have them start here but they (the gentiles) will then be hearing Moses being taught on the Sabbath and learn how to continue to grow and walk out their new faith. But hey what does Paul know either, right? "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God..." Seriously? So, you mean Jesus kept the Sabbath, the Apostles kept the Sabbath, the new believers were keeping the Sabbath but now, we, the new Church no longer needs to worry about it? Because of our freedom? That's a tough one...
It'd be nice if you guys would get one of these Hebrew Roots people on here to share their perspective. Surely there's some peaceful adherent who could explain from their own perspective?
6:33 True but not 'you may be one of the tribe of Israel by blood'.....ALL believers are ingrafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-31).....like (good) yeast permeating the whole dough as in Matthew 13:33 when Yeshua teaches us about 'the kingdom of heaven is like'.... We weren't ingrafted into something wholly different! We were not grafted into a 'new religion' or 'paganism.' We were grafted into the ways of God as revealed in God's word!
Andrew, I appreciate your research and genuine effort to represent the beliefs of followers of the Way. Some positive aspects as well as some negative aspects you represented very well. I agree the superiority complex with gained knowledge is a dangerous place to be and scripture warns of this clearly. As we are set apart horizontally not vertically. But truly though, so much has been way misrepresented as a Catholic trying to explain accurately the beliefs of a Baptist.
I vote for this panel if they are willing:
- Steve from Torah Family
- Jim from Passion for Truth Ministries
- Michael from The Olive Branch ministry
- Zach from My House Ministries
- Zach from New 2 Torah
- Aaron from TOTW
SOLID lineup! Those are some great brothers right there.
Couldn't you contact 119 ministries to find out what they believe about the trinity?
Yes they could. 119 ministries is very quick to respond to emails. I maybe emailed them in the past asking about their beliefs. However I think this series is more about making claims and then not proving their side with any scripture. This is in addition to not having anyone who is actually knowledgeable in what the Hebrew rooters believe.
Theonomist Evangelicalism and non-heretical HR actually overlap on most points.
When I realized that the three-fold division of Gods law doesn’t work and isn’t actually taught in scripture, that was a turning point for me into Torah observance. I still consider myself a theonomist, just one that rejects the three- fold division.
@@samuelbonura7439 Such as the restoration of Shabbat, appointed times, and laws going forth from Zion in the Reign of Messiah (Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, etc Al.)
It has to, Satan isn't that obvious, he is crafty and subtle.
@@kylej.d.
Jesus said that His yoke is easy. He kept the law and explicitly commanded certain people regarding Torah: "the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat so do as they say, but not as they do..." and "go and offer the gift Moses commanded."
Then he commissioned His disciples telling them to teach All that He commanded. He also told us that Moses wrote of Him and that if people didnt believe Moses, they would not believe even if someone would rise from the dead.
@@kylej.d.
The circumcision party was a group of Pharisees who wanted to conflate physical birth and spiritual birth. Paul wrote, not to denigrate circumcision as a practice for males on the 8th day, but to clarify that such a practice had nothing to do with their own personal faith. In other words, circumcision doesn't save a person, justifying them before God. It is merely an act of obedience in sanctification after believing.
Did it ever dawn on you guys that apologia is a cult??
Bingo lol
If you believe we still need to keep the laws that go all the way back to the beginning wouldn't we still need to keep the distinction of clean and unclean animals since that distinction was made in Genesis?
🤦♂How is it that Andrew Schumacher is brought on this show to explain what He does not understand. In my opinion this presentation seems to be quite bias. Please continue this conversation with Sean Griffin founder of UA-cam channel "Kingdom in Context". Let's reason with one another, and look into the scriptures intently. Grace and Peace!
I sent Zachary Bauer and Sean Griffin these videos. Zachary with New2Torah issued a video response already.
Haven’t listened to Apologia for quite sometime for obvious reasons (I became Eastern Orthodox) but really look forward to listening to these discussions on the Hebrew Roots stuff, I was briefly attracted to those things before recognising how silly and adverse to Christ the whole thing ultimately is.
What would you say is adverse to Christ? May I have an example?
@@pt9474 Well I intentionally made that a broad and all encompassing statement. By it I mean: (A) Actually denying His deity and divinity, and so rejecting his person, (B) Rejecting that he is distinct from the Father and thus rejecting his person, (C) Rejecting baptism in the name of the most holy trinity for the forgiveness of sin and thus rejecting the Christian tearing that we are born again in putting on Christ, (D) that nothing actually changed whatsoever between the testaments and so nullifying the New Testament, promoting the idea that sacrifices at the temple will somehow be necessary again and thus nullifying Christs atoning sacrifice by which death and sin is abolished and nullified, and (E) that becoming a Jew is necessary to be a Christian thus nullifying the dispensation of grace to all the nations because now Christ is still only the God of the Jews, whereas glory is due to him from every nation.
@@pt9474 Also it intrinsically rejects the idea that the actual visible church with an actual communion is the real body of Jesus Christ, and tends to express that all of the traditional christian communions are somehow compromising apostates and pagan - And so in this sense it is also adverse to Christ as the Church.
@@pt9474 This isn’t to say there is nothing good at all in the Hebrew Roots movement, I did find it edifying in some manners and helped me get my spiritual head on straight while I was in the wilderness - But it’s an extremely mixed bag of some things that could spiritually kill a person, such as the things I listed above. The good in it is the emphasis on faithfulness, on honouring the Old Testament and the commandments which are the very words of God, and it’s emphasis on how the New Testament is found within the Old Testament, God did not just say one day “Hey I’m going to abandon Israel and do something new and shiny to subvert some expectations and damn some souls who think I am faithful to them.” God is faithful.
@@OrthobroAustin Thank you for your response. If I can I am going to try and clear a few things up, concerning your statements based on your first response. It may help. But I do appreciate you taking the time out to respond.
Always a good thing when you got folks from one group, who disagree with the beliefs of another group, defining that other group, without interviewing anyone from that group, in order to teach the rest of us who they are. Great job there.
But it's not "without interviewing anyone from that group." There's been plenty of interview by Andrew and Nikki. And they continue to have friends that are still HRM. (I know many of you don't "like" labels, but the reality is, that is a label in and of itself). But yes, they have interviewed plenty of people, as have I.
I don't really understand why it is so hard to believe that people want to obey all of Gods commandments.
Simple question: if you love someone, how do you show him or her that you love that person? Is it by saying that you love them or by your actions?
How come when it comes to followers of Yeshua/Jesus it is strange or hard to understand? If you claim to love Yeshua, wouldn't you want to go to all of His parties and try and study and keep His commandments to show you that you love Him?
So when you love someone it is a burden to study your partner and do the things he or she wants? Studying the Torah and trying to live by it is a blessing and our way to show our love. Or do you have different ways of showing love then by actions? I just wonder...
Come all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest Finish it! For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Still a yoke and burden, but it is informed by the Spirit. The attitude. Ezekiel and Jeremiah speak of it. It's easy to freely obey one you love. The state of the West and post modernism testify that the Church is not getting it either. Read the Book and apply it seriously like the Puritans did. Understand that Jesus is the root, not "Hebrews," but that the Gentiles ARE grafted in , with native "Hebrew" branches also bring broken off. One new bride in Messiah. Brides love and obey their Husbands.
When you eat at a buffet you are the kind of guy that takes stuff out of each food type and mixes it I take it?
Hebrew Roots is far too vague. Better to pick specific doctrine and then hold it to the Scripture for proving. Maybe more productive in my opinion. Else wise you just tick off legitimate believers who hold to things they believe the Scriptures validate but believe Christianity is rooted in Hebrew Scriptures.
If a third temple is built at some point in the future and fire miraculously consumes the temple sacrifice, how many professed Christians, especially in the Hebrew roots movement, would become apostate by embracing that system in blatant rejection of Christ’s once for all sacrifice ?
It would happen after the second coming, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Antichrist will stand in the Temple and proclaim himself god.
Jesus is going to establish a law in Zion. And rule from Jerusakem.
There are many prophecies speaking about a milleniel Temple. This is reiterated by several prophets.
Also, the early church was involved in Temple worship involving sacrifice for about 70 years after the resurrection of Christ. In fact Paul was taking a Temple vow when he was arrested for teaching against the law, a charge he staunchly and truthfully denied.
Hebrew roots movement is taking us back to the power of the early believers. It is to be celebrated and embraced, not criticized by men who ignore the consistency if the Word.
@Eric H
Part of Protestantism is certainly exhibiting those symptoms but part of it is being purified to fit the description of the remnant church in the book of the Revelation.
If you are right, how could there be an Abomination of Desolation as prophesied in Daniel? Or do you think that already happened? Also, do you think Isaiah 56 has already happened to? If so, when?
Bad take, y'all.
This is part of the reason people are ditching the "Hebrew Roots" title; that it's a large category and not who are even still friendly to that term believe the same things: i.e. polygamy, anti-trinitarianism, anti-Christian. Contentious stuff this gets marched our whenever someone feels like making a straw man heresy hunting vid...
Why not interview someone from this movement instead of this ! Apologia doesn't set the standard so your analysis of the movement based off a poor execution of it's beliefs from someone who obviously has a very broad idea of what's actually taking place . Therefore your tactics for shaming these brothers and sisters in CHRIST because they have opposite beliefs than you is just sad to see .
SHALOM !!
Is a person who observes the appointed time considered to be in a Hebrew roots cult in your mental categories?
For me , certainly not. You are free to observe. Some of us have. It becomes error and cult like when it goes from your desire to observe to believing that it’s disobedience against God not to, especially if you are laying that burden on others.
@@angelcollector22 The word cult comes from the word cultivates, or vice versa but it means the twit something from it original state. My question is focused at whether or not people that agree with everything said of this video, identify those that observe the feasts as a cult?
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree I believe I answered you
@@angelcollector22 so to summarize you would not categorize a person as being part of a cult if they choose to observe the appointed times, outlined in scripture. Thank you. That would mean you are in disagreement with a lot of what was said in the videos. In this video particular app call fish seems to wholesale dump anyone Who in anyway it looks to be regarding the 10 Commandments observing the appointment times the concept of being grafted in for being referred to as a hebrew according to Romans and Hebrews as being part of Hebrew roots and then equating that to the most extreme examples of Hebrew roots Adherence. Me and my family observe the appointed times, the spring see that you sure fulfilled as well as the fall feast that have yet to be fulfilled, and they are obviously appointed time to be observed because they systematically an annual a trainer the work of the gospel. And because as a Christian we have no other holidays, a.k.a. holy days identified in our doctrine, and I always take this opportunity to remind people that God has a particular way he’d like to be worshiped and we can’t go around creating our own terms with which we will worship God, he shows us through scripture and history that he will not honor that. Thanks for the opportunity to discuss
@@estimatingonediscoveringthree Andrew from Beginning of wisdom does not consider a person in a cult if the observe feasts,sabbaths and eats kosher
Can you guys do an episode on The Last Reformation and Torben Sondergaard? It is related to the NAR and it seems to be getting more popular.
I have been listening this conversation and I can’t believe you guys are talking about other peoples belief of Hebrew roots or messianic and you have no knowledge on that, you are saying false testimonies against the people who believe in that and mislead so many people that are follow you. None of you are qualified to speak about this subject with your little or wrong knowledge and I don’t know if your intention is to misinform your audience.
If you really honest and want to find the truth why don’t you invite guess who are believing in Hebrew root, messianic, etc and not only from your opinion. Recommend Jim Staley, 119 ministers, new2torah
Would love to see more of this great content thank you brothers ❤
ROMAN 11:16-27 If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree, don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear; for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off. They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
For I don’t desire you to be ignorant, brothers,[a] of this mystery, so that you won’t be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and so "ALL" Israel will be saved. Even as it is written,
“There will come out of Zion the Deliverer,
and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
This is my covenant with them,
when I will take away their sins.”Isaiah 59:20-21; 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34 (The resurrection of the saints)
Just wait till the topic of their view of circumcision comes up!
Not all Hebrews place a yoke upon people to get circumcised. The comment is a blanket statement condemning all Hebrews... Wait until the topic of Christmas comes up, or baptizing infants, or easter and painting eggs, or the rapture, or Joseph Smith being a prophet, or eve having physical relations with the serpent in the garden, or it being okay to marry the same sex.
not all Christians believe the same thing. It would be disingenuous for me to make a statement like that.
What video will that be in? "An Introductory Overview, Pt. 15"?
@@pt9474 🤦♀️
I spent over 5 yrs in the movement. I know what they, whether it be personal fellow HRers I know, or all the internet ministries, believe.
Glad Im home, back in mainstream Christianity, where I was raised
my only question to the folks who passionately follow The 4th Commandment is...Are you passionately following the new commandment Jesus Christ left us with in John 13:34 (KJV)?
Of course we want to follow our Messiah Jesus and all of His teachings. He gives us a more perfect light to understand how to live out the instructions of God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength.
"You are not to take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself." - Leviticus 19:18
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Torah?” And He said to him, “‘You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ The entire Torah and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” -Matthew 22:36-40
I don't know why it's such a big deal to just chill on Saturday and go to church on Sunday. We are gentiles Acts 15:20
In my humble opinion Hebrew roots somewhat covets after the idea that Israel is God's people, that's never going to change but you can be grafted in
Great Job Guys I've observed from a safe distance this "Hebrew Roots movement" watching various videos teachings this is one of many scriptures 2 TIM 3: 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Also noticed within several of their Passover and other Feast Gatherings extreme weather disaster strikes, Tornados/Floods etc.... Just my humble observation. Also Jesus was and is the LAMB OF GOD and He clearly states He is the Bread of Life and His Blood is the Life Giving Spirit
Are you trying to state that they were struck with disasters because of their obedience? Hope I’m reading it wrong but that’s a very bold statement to make. Can you cite these events? Did people die? I’m curious.
PS 11:4 He closely watches and examines everything man does.
With a glance, his eyes[b] examine every heart,
for his heavenly rule will prevail over all.
5 Yahweh tests both the righteous and the wicked.
God’s very soul detests lovers of violence.
6 He will[ rain down upon them judgment for their sins.
A scorching wind will be their lot in life.
Howdy from Independence Ohio
Broadview Hts 👊🏽👊🏽
We are graphed in to the house of Israel. The Torah/Law is forever, period. Look into the Ephrem awakening.
Please bring on and discuss the basics with a reputable "Hebrew Roots" teacher. Steve Moutria from Torah Life or 119 Ministries.
Every single group has their fringe folks. Every single group has the unloving, totally missing the point people. I've heard of bad situations within "HR" fellowships but I've also personally experienced bad situations within more mainstream Christian congregations.
Also, you all seem to be confusing covenant and law. They are not interchangeable. Jeremiah 31:33 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people." New covenant will be that God will put his law (Torah) within them. Not a new law, not an altered law, not a "moral" law with the "ceremonial" (terms found nowhere in scripture) ended. No where do the prophets ever prophecy of the law ending, the law changing, or of a new law that will be instituted. It's just not there. Concerning the Sabbath: what kind of people get to take a day off to rest? Free people. Slaves, not so much. What a blessing to be free in Christ to rest spiritually AND physically! God instituted the 7th day sabbath at creation. It's almost like he made us and knows what's best for us!
God bless you guys. This series was needed. Thank you so much. Y'all are such a blessing to The body.
What you call works we say be obedient 35:20
So I am seeing comments from I am presuming HR people saying this video is sitting in judgement and other similar complaints. It’s interesting how accusatory you all are of “the other side” picking apart your doctrine without (yet) getting perspective or answers from Torah followers, yet you all cannot see that every HR ministry and every Facebook group or tic toc member who is a Torah observer spends the majority of their lives picking apart Christian doctrine. I mean, after all, the foundation of your movement is that we are all pagan and lawless. How do you not see that what you are accusing cultish and Beginning of Wisdom of is actually what you all do on a regular and even daily basis. Be honest. You can walk into the comment section of any HR platform and see you all picking apart Christian doctrine. And beyond that many (not all) platforms won’t even allow Christians to have a dissenting opinion or have free open dialogue without having your comment removed or banned altogether. Look at your own actions and see why these accusations are incredibly hypocritical
We ARE to judge one another, judge spirits, judge doctrine against the Counsel of Theos, or God, or LORD, or whatever word you use in place of YHWH our Elohim. We are to judge among believers, and discipline them. And throw out the divisive and heretical ones. Not many should be teachers. HR hits on modern Christianity's weaknesses. Maybe fix the problems so the big "C" church isn't in error, and then worry about your brother's eye. Neither camp is doing it right "by the Book." CRT? BLM? Lady pastors? LGBTQ embraced? Materialistic holidays with Jesus colored frosting on top? Divorce in the Church, REMARRIAGE after? Premarital sex? Abortions? Men not leading families in headship and stuardship? Doubting biblical accuracy and authority? Charismatic nonsense? Osteen? These are problems Evangelicalism has nursed to maturity since the 1850's. Both Fundamental Evengelicalism and HR have brought me closer to the Truth and full beauty of my Elohim, Yeshush the Messiah-King, and the fullness of Scripture. This divisive shit needs to stop. I say shit because that is exactly the filthy, crude rubbish that it is.
Well the majority of men and women came from Christianity who subscribe to the Hebrew movement. So the objective though is to win souls to Christ. So I have a question for you.
Is Christianity today filled with pagan practices? Are the Hebrews telling the truth? Or are they lying?
lets get Christs words... He is the reason everyone is talking in the first place.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Christ states many shall claim to be with him but shall deceive many...well that sounds a lot like Christianity, because they use his name. But what else did Christ teach?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Christ is talking to the pharisees here but this is applicable today with the Christians and the Hebrews. But I would say more so the Christians who lay aside the commandments of God and teach doctrines of men.
So, you judge for yourself, and if you are not able to judge righteous judgment do this.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
@@pt9474 no, I don’t think we have pagan practices
@@pt9474 our objective is the same. Souls made in the image of God are precious. We care about those we believe are being deceived
@@pt9474 from what I can see my point still stands. The HR spends their time attacking Christianity. I am in at least 20 HR groups and it’s generallly an attack on us pagans and not evangelizing. The majority will not dialogue with you
I can think of a Channel on here that I used to listen too that is HR. It's a husband and wife, but the wife does almost all the "teaching" because she thinks God is telling her all this directly. Stay away from Philia Ministries. Bad,bad,bad.
she is much more secretive now. But I agree with you. I would suggest running from that ministry
@@angelcollector22 that is what I've heard. I was in a group on FB. The group was people who practice head covering. When someone tried to introduce her teachings into the group, I alerted the administrators. I can't begin to tell you how much hate I got. Thankfully the administrators decided against allowing her teachings.
@@juliesix4390 the whole lot is quite protective of her. Have never seen anything like it. Even people that should know better and don’t agree with her teaching give her a pass. It’s bewildering
Shabbat Shalom (blessed Sabbath). Those of us whose eyes have been opened to the wondrous things in Yah’s Torah (Psalm 119:18-19), which our Redeemer, King and High Priest adhered to perfectly and calls us to follow Him in so walking, pray for the eyes of all our brothers and sisters to be likewise opened. It is only by His Spirit and a longing with all our hearts on our part that He opens our eyes to the narrow path Yeshua told us we must walk. Time is short before our Master’s return, we pray you not be found with no oil in your lamps walking down that broad road of the world’s church, but instead doing the will of our Father (Matthew 7:21-22). Read and truly pray Psalm 119 and see if your eyes might not be opened to the truth, which is His Word. Yeshua said: “I am the way, the truth and the life.” Yeshua is the Word made flesh. The Word is the Torah. Torah is the way, truth and life. They are one in the same. Denying Yah’s Word is denying Yah’s Word.
Cultish/Apologia Studios, Have you ever done a video on the Christian Identity Movement? And if not then when will you do a video on the Christian Identity Movement? But I think I know why many do not want to do a video in order to expose this evil movement.
You want to watch an Torah Observer run from a question and contradict their theology and scripture ask them this "Answer the question yes or no. After the Acts 15 council and between the destruction of the temple, where the gentiles expected to keep the Passover as it is found in the Law?
No. But should you keep the holy days contained in scripture and not switch them out with your own Holidays.
I don't think running from a question edifies. But also posing a question to only allow for a yes or no response, could be deceiving.
One thing you do notice though in Acts 15. Is this.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
*****Sounds like some law here. No idols, no fornication, no things strangled and blood (dietary). Because in the kingdom of Heaven there's a law.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
(from one month to the next and one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship)....... A future prophecy.
@@pt9474 Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
(from one month to the next and one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship)....... A future prophecy.
This is saying every day of every week of every month IE it is eternal.
@@pt9474 you can't keep the holy days with out breaking them. SO YOU are willfully breaking the Law by breaking Deu 4 2 and Deu 12 32 which says not to add or subtract from the Law. Did you got to Jerusalem for Sukkot the place the Lord chose or did you keep it in a place of YOUR choosing which is adding and subtracting from the Law. So you arew being a hypocrite and bearing false witness if you say you keep/observe/guard/(insert synonym and semantics here)
@@pt9474 the commands listed in Acts 15 are moral commands, you seem to want to ignore for example that even in pagan societies they believed murder was a crime and honoring ones parents was a good thing
@@JGez83 Did the disciples keep the Holy days? Did Paul? Did Christ? Who told you, that you couldn't keep the law?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Scripture clearly express that to be part of Israel (GOD's People) it's always been about Circumcision of the Heart, and nothing to do with having blood heritage.
30 It shall happen, when all these things have come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations where Yahweh your God has driven you, 2 and return to Yahweh your God and obey his voice according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that then Yahweh your God will release you from captivity, have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples where Yahweh your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there Yahweh your God will gather you, and from there he will bring you back. 5 Yahweh your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you will possess it. He will do you good, and increase your numbers more than your fathers. 6 Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your offspring, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. Deut. 30:1-7
12 Now, Israel, what does Yahweh your God require of you, but to fear Yahweh your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, and to serve Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 to keep Yahweh’s commandments and statutes, which I command you today for your good? 14 Behold, to Yahweh your God belongs heaven, the heaven of heavens, and the earth, with all that is therein. 15 Only Yahweh had a delight in your fathers to love them, and he chose their offspring after them, even you above all peoples, as it is today. 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff-necked. Deut. 10: 12-16
Circumcise yourselves to Yahweh, and take away the foreskins of your heart, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go out like fire, and burn so that no one can quench it, because of the evil of your doings. Jer. 4:4
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God. Rom. 2: 28-29
9 Is this blessing then pronounced on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it counted? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 He received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they might be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might also be accounted to them. 12 He is the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision. Rom. 4: 9-12
At 39 min he talks about the sabbath & how Jesus is our rest, the problem with that is the rest the scriptures talk about is physical not spiritual, you're to rest from physical labor, from buying and selling, you cannot take that and switch the whole meaning it doesn't logically make sense to derive one from the other.
Dr. Luke was a constant companion of the Apostle Paul from the time that he joined the missionary apostle when he sailed from Troas to Europe. Luke accompanied Paul on his fateful last return trip to Jerusalem, and was an eyewitness to the arrest of Paul in the Temple in Acts 21. The crowd was greatly agitated by the presence of Paul in the Temple, and charged him with bringing Gentiles into the Temple precincts. This was a crime punishable by death. Luke explains that Paul never did bring any Gentiles into the Temple, but he was seen on the streets of Jerusalem with “Trophimus an Ephesian.” Apparently, Paul brought Trophimus with him to Jerusalem so that the apostles and the mother church there could see first-hand the fruits of his labor among the Gentiles. Even though the charge was false, they were able to spread the rumor among the people, and cause a near riot against Paul on the Temple Mount, and for this reason he was arrested.
The point is that, when the Jewish people wanted to accuse Paul of bringing a Gentile into the Temple, they chose Trophimus. Why didn’t they choose Luke, who was also with Paul, and was an eyewitness to these events? If Luke were a Gentile, it would have been far easier, and far more believable, to accuse Paul of bringing Luke with him into the Temple, rather than Trophimus. The fact that Luke was not mentioned in the accusation is a strong indication that he was not a Gentile.
Another argument for the idea that Luke was a Jew is that he showed such an intimate knowledge of the Temple, more than any other of the Gospel writers. When he described the announcement to Zacharias concerning the birth of John the Baptist, Luke went into considerable detail to describe the rotating selection of the Levitical priests for service according to their families. He further described the position of the priest before the altar of incense, where the angel appeared to Zacharias (Luke 1:8-20).
The fact that Luke alone of the four Gospel writers gives this account, and he does so with such vivid detail, argues for his being a Jew, familiar with the Temple procedures. One could even speculate that Luke might have been a Levite as well, as he knew so much about how the Temple operated. Is it logical to assume, without question, that Luke was a Gentile, when he had such a clear understanding of the most intimate workings of the Temple, where no Gentile was allowed to go?
Yet another argument is the striking intimacy that Luke had with the mother of Jesus, Mary. He relates the story of the birth of Jesus primarily from Mary’s point of view, and then said that she hid these things “in her heart” (Luke 2:19, 51). How did Luke, of all the Gospel writers, get so close to Mary that he was able to find out what she had hidden in her heart? As close-knit as the Jerusalem church was, and as difficult as it must have been for Gentiles to have gotten to the “inner circle” of the apostolic leadership, it seems highly unlikely that Luke could have gotten that close to Mary if he were a Gentile. Proponents have also argued that the name Luke (Lucas) is, in itself, evidence that he was a Gentile. However, the very names mentioned in Col. 4 as being in “the circumcision” are Gentile names: Aristarchus, Marcus and Justus.
Actually, it appears that Luke might have served Mary for a time as her personal physician. This is speculation, but how else could he have had such a close relationship with her, so that he could draw from her the details she had hidden in her heart, and had discussed with few others? Luke would have had the opportunity to consult with Mary on the occasions when Paul made his reporting trips to Jerusalem, and especially while Paul was in prison in Caesarea for two years. Such access would have been quite understandable if Luke were a Jew, but would have been most unlikely if he were a Gentile.
The term gentile Christian is misleading. It is tantamount to saying pagan Christian. When one becomes a Christian, one takes on a new identity, by no means a pagan identity.” There is no such thing as a “Gentile Christian”, the clear indication in the Apostolic writings is that Gentile converts became part of a body of Hebrews known as the “sect of the Nazarenes”, of which the Book of Acts calls Paul the “ringleader”. A true Believer is one grafted into the cultivated olive tree of Israel, they become part of the Hebrew people.
Every single believer in Messiah is grafted in to Israel. There is no distinction between Jew and gentile. If you're grafted into Israel then all the laws and covenants that God made with Israel apply to you. The only thing that changed with Christ's life death and Resurrection for our sins is that we no longer have priests on Earth as he is our high priest in heaven.
So physical circumcision is necessary for gentiles according to your ideology? So you interpretation contradicts Acts 15 and Paul….
You say there is no distinction spiritually yes there is no longer a distinction however physically there are still distinction else you are also saying there is no longer male and female based your interpretation
Who is James speaking to?
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion:
Greetings.
How did Caine, Abel, Noah and Abraham know what righteous sacrifices pleased God? How did Noah know what clean and unclean animals had been?
Thank you for doing this video on the Hebrew roots movement. I had never heard of it before, but I’ve been following a channel on UA-cam that probably subscribes to it. Mostly, I liked the historical and cultural context the pastor gave to the Old Testament. It helped me understand scriptures that never made sense before. As a student of literature, I understand that context is very important. But I had noticed a few things he said, such as the sacrifices will be reinstated in the future. That undermines the core of Christianity. Christ was the sacrifice for all, the sacrifice to end all sacrifices. To reinstate sacrifices would be to say that His sacrifice was not enough.
The only sacrifice that Jesus' death satisfied once and for all, is the once a year Atonement sacrifice. Thus, Yahweh tore the veil. Even the early church continued offering sacrifices in the Temple, for example the apostle Paul was in the Temple offering the sacrifice for a Temple vow when he was arrested for 'teaching against the law,' something he denied ever doing. As believers, we become part of the body of Christ and have peace with God. But we still sin and need to be reconciled to Christ by confessing our sin and being washed with the true Word.
@Eric H
I hope I'm understanding you correctly. You are stating why there is not a completely new law under the melchisidec priesthood, right?
@@exceedingabundantly203
That is a pretty complicated way to go about understanding a rather simple message. "JESUS CHRIST the same, yesterday, today and forever..."
Yesterday, as He walked the earth as a perfect Torah keeper
Today, as He empowers me by His Spirit to live as He did, never once sinning by transgressing God's law
And forever as He reigns according to the law which goes forth from Jerusalem/Zion.
He never changes. Every Word of God is pure, perfect and eternal. He is consistent and trustworthy and Rock solid.
@@exceedingabundantly203
There are changes in scripture but God always lets us know ahead of time through His prophets, that way as we wend our way through time, we can know which way to turn to stick with His plan. The coming of Yeshua, our salvation is a centerpiece of prophecy. His first coming was apparently late 'Wednesday' if each 1000 years of history is a day. All throughout the prophecies leading up to His first coming there was hushed talk by candlelight about a great light that would come. This imagery continues as John writes in his epistle that a new commandment is being given which us the same as the old commandment, yet new because the light already came! He was letting us know that the message us still intact as Jesus is the light of the world who told us to be light and let our lights so shine as He lives in us.
So, yes, there was a prophesied change. God tore the veil between the Holy place and the Holiest place where the priest went in once a year, trembling, to offer the sacrifice between God and man. The temple described in Ezekiel (which may very well be the milleniel Temple) does not seem to have a separate Holy of Holies either. The atonement to make peace with God was Christ and now the sacrifices are to make peace within His body.
@@exceedingabundantly203
I grasped that now. Sorry if I was being thick.
Andrew makes the assumption (not even a fair argument) that only the laws that predate the Abrahamic Covenant are valid for all people at all times. Ok, well...sacrifices, clean eating, and Sabbath keeping all predate Abraham. Abraham (Abram) initiated the tithe, so are we to do away with that too?
Go after the best the other side has to offer, not the worst. Anything other than that is a waste of time. Tell me why the brother in Christ is wrong about this, not the one who rejects essential doctrine.
the problem is that the sheep are being led astray. Its never a waste of time to present a case in order to warn those who may become entrapped. I know when I speak against HR, I am doing so not necessarily for those steeped in it (they matter too), but for those who are new to the faith or searching. If it wasn't for the fact that cults (and I will include the HR movement) hurt people, most people would not take the time to bother warning. It is loving your neighbor to warn them. I have had many who left HR reach out to me and they suffered horribly thinking that they were not doing enough or doing it right. I have seen girls express suicidal ideation for how difficult it was to live up to the perfect standard set.
You seem to be talking about an unbalanced approach, which would always lead to issues in any belief. God forgives us for our sins and helps us along the way.
Question for you, do you believe God commands us to obey him in any capacity at all? If so, and I hope your answer would be yes, then it’s logical that anyone could fall into similar despair as you expressed. That being the case, it still doesn’t address wether of not one should observe certain commandments or not.
@@samuelbonura7439 sure, obedience is clearly instructed in the New Covenant. Yes, people can fall into despair for any reason. But, I can tell you having clocked over 35,000 hours in cult studies (I stopped keeping track of the hours awhile ago), despair is the trademark of coming out of a cult. Its simply a fact. I see similarities to cults I have studied and the HR movement and how it affects people.
@@samuelbonura7439 I am not under the Sinai covenant, that I am sure of. If you want to observe feasts, no problem. You have that freedom. I have observed feasts in the past for reasons that had nothing to do with it being required. But to insist that I am disobeying God because I don't stand up everytime I am in the presence of someone with grey hair or someone elderly (Leviticus 19) is not what I believe Paul had in mind when he was instructing people in obedience. (although I do believe that honoring elders in this way is being respectful) The Unuit in the arctic circle would not have survived without eating whale and seal. Its that simple. Neither would the Inuit be able to observe the feast of tabernacles exactly as instructed. But you bet that the Inuit should not steal from their neighbor, kill anyone, or covet their neighbor or sleep with their neighbors spouse. Those instructions can be obeyed wherever you live on this planet. I am not antinomian but I can clearly see that the laws to Israel were given and were to be obeyed in that land. Having no other gods before you can be obeyed no matter where you live. The Inuit have no roads out of where they are and a tiny air strip that is a dangerous flight. I am sure they cannot make it to Israel whenever they were to present to the temple as commanded by Torah. If the temple were standing now,today, most of the world could still not be in complete obedience to laws for Israel. Simply put, they were laws for those living in that land. The disciples were never instructed to take the gospel to all lands and bring them all back to Israel so that they could obey the temple laws. Didn't happen. But the disciples certainly instructed on obeying instructions that would be related to what some people call the moral law. I just refer to them as laws that are based on Gods character and no matter who you are and where you live, you should abide by them. The Unuit don't have a 24 hour sabbath because they have 6 months of darkness and 6 months of light- literally. But they can rest in Christ as their sabbath rest.
The law has changed because the priesthood changed. Tell me how the Inuit could follow the law in its completeness if the temple were still standing. I would love to know.
I find the Inuit example very strange. Have you heard of the doctrine of general equity and how that helps people apply Gods law today?
Like I said on Facebook my daughter followed the Hebrew roots movement for a year and a half and got my granddaughter into it . Now Neither one of them believe in God . My heart has been ripped in Two pieces . I have heard a lot of people leaving this movement either go to Judaism or denying God
I am so sorry. My heart breaks for you
It may be easy to blame the movement, but the majority of "Christian's" lose their faith in college. And many pastors have drifted into wokeism. And look at John Piper's son, Abraham and the great Francis Schaeffer's son Frankie, avowed atheists. Christianity is all over the map and it is easy to search and become disillusioned. Look at all the denominational differences and differences within. Take any issue (baptism, salvation, spiritual gifts, marriage, etc.) the differences are many and huge.
@@exceedingabundantly203 my Daughter so so much hypocrisy in the movement and more . My daughter has a great influence on my granddaughter . When she left the Hebrew roots movement my granddaughter followed
@@exceedingabundantly203 sorry seem plenty of Hebrew Rooters fall into atheism or just go into Judaism. Because Hebrew Roots/Torah Observance is based on disinformation conspiracy theories and ignoring of historical sources and are just flat out hypocrites. No matter how they twist Paul it is clear that gentile believers are not REQUIRED to observe Sabbaths feasts and dietary laws. If any one says they keep Sukkot THEY are not keeping it according to how the Law says which would be in violation of Deu 4 2 & 12 32 ex. Do not add or subtract from the Law.
@@JGez83 I agree, many people who put their faith in their works within any movement, they will “give up” God. And because within some Hebrew Roots congregation the focus is on obedience and not in Messiah, it will draw in those type of people. I too have seen many people go all Jewish and to other religions within Hebrew Roots, Torah Observant or Messianic Congregations.
However, I do have to argue that you can keep Torah outside the land without a Temple Deut 30. And required, no you are not required to keep it in order to be saved. It’s not a salvation thing. But from a covenantal perspective… yes you are required. But it’s not a status thing or a salvation thing. Are you required to do the Lord’s super? Baptism? It’s the same idea.
Obedience to Torah is the result of actually being saved. If you don’t naturally obey the Torah then, according to Scripture, you are not saved. The Bible says that under the “new covenant” the Torah will be written on your heart. That means that if you want to know whether or not you are saved, whether you have really received the true Yeshua Messiah into your life or that counterfeit “other Jesus” Paul warns about, all you have to do is read the Torah and see if your heart responds to it by your having a desire to do whatever it says ” the Torah will be written on your heart. That means that if you want to know whether or not you are saved, whether you have really received the true Yeshua Messiah into your life or that counterfeit “other Jesus” Paul warns about, all you have to do is read the Torah and see if your heart responds to it by your having a desire to do whatever it says because you love your God as a result of being saved.
Let me put it another way. If you read in the Torah to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy and your response is something like, “Well, that’s an old Jewish thing, we are not under bondage to the Sabbath,” or, “That’s what weird cult groups like the Seventh Day Adventists or Jehovah’s Witnesses do,” then you are not saved. On the other hand, if, after receiving Yeshua as your Master and Messiah, you read it and say in your heart, “that’s God’s Torah, keep the Sabbath, no work between sunset Friday and sunset Saturday, what a blessing it is to be saved and have God’s instructions to man that I might live in the fullness of His blessing,” then you are probably saved. If you read, “Don’t eat pork, don’t eat shellfish, don’t worship idols (including Santa Claus and the Easter rabbit), and other ‘don’t do’ commandments,” and your response is, “Everything is bad, God doesn’t want me to do anything fun or enjoyable. That stuff tastes so good, why does God say not to eat it. Santa Claus is just a fun thing for the kids, why shouldn’t I set my child in his lap like the children of Israel did when they sat their children in the lap of Molech, doesn’t God realize that these things are a part of my culture,” then you are not saved because your heart is not responsive to the commandments of God. But if you have received the real Yeshua, not that counterfeit “other Jesus”, and you say, “WOW, what a blessing! I can live in health because God told me what He created to bless my body and what animals in His Creation will curse my body. I can serve Him alone, none of these other gods of men. It’s not a list of what is bad, but a warning against what will harm me and my relationship to the Creator,” then you are probably saved.
Please invite David Wilbur from 119 Ministries. He would be a great person to discuss this issue with.
So basically, this is a resurrection of the galatian heresy and Hebrews 6, if their was a temple and sacrifices, they'd be that down to the T.
Galatians were idol worshippers before coming to Christ, not unbelieving Jews. Read Isaiah 56 and the end of Ezekiel and you'll hopefully see why people aren't opposed to the Temple being rebuilt and fulfilled with Jesus the Messiah being the King. Remember when Jesus said "My house shall be a house of prayer for all nations?" That's Isaiah 56. He's coming back to fulfill his earthly kingship, which includes an earthy Temple in Jerusalem.
@@t.scottmajor1316 Nope, read galatians and acts, it was about the circumcision debate which was required in the torah. These people were a constant problematic influence with multiple references in the new testament which is the group the author of Hebrews rails against in the epistle to the Hebrew. If those who when back and sacrificed at the temple the passover lamb and go back to the ot customs that were fulfilled, they were anathema. Read Hebrews 6. Im sorry but your logic makes no sense to the original context of the text.
@@DecimusStark I know Paul is difficult to understand when he is talking about the "law." But, he emphatically promotes God's Law throughout his life in Acts and all of his letters. So, that has to be taken into account when reading passages in Galatians etc. where he seems to be talking negatively about it. My personal belief is that when he talks about "circumcision" in Galatians, he is using that term as code for "converting to a sect of Judaism." And in Acts 15, saying someone has to be "circumcised according to the tradition of Moses" that would refer to being circumcised on the 8th day. Which pretty much would mean it would be impossible to be saved for them. So, then they would have to go through a "conversion" process. Neither of those situations are referring to the actual circumcision that is the covenantal sign of the Abrahamic covenant of faith. To me this is consistent to believe this way because you also have to wrestle with the fact that Paul circumcised Timothy. Under your view of Galatians, that should disqualify both Paul and Timothy. But to me, that shows he is just being obedient to the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant of Faith. Also, Paul was living his whole life in the book of Acts according to the Torah. He went out of his way to Jerusalem for a couple of the Feasts, made animal sacrifices and went before multiple courts professing that he followed the Torah.
“You see, brother, how many myriads there are among the Jewish people who have believed-and they are all zealous for the Torah. They have been told about you-that you teach all the Jewish people among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or to walk according to the customs. What’s to be done then? No doubt they will hear that you have come. So do what we tell you. We have four men who have a vow on themselves. Take them, and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. That way, all will realize there is nothing to the things they have been told about you, but that you yourself walk in an orderly manner, keeping the Torah." - Acts 21:21-24
This was excruciating to listen to. It’s akin to the main stream media’s investigative reporting. Way too biased to be worth anything.
And speaking but not really saying anything
I even came across a video Once where a guy said it was wrong for them to put in the Bible that Jesus ate a fish cuz he never would have eaten a creature
So, you guys would differentiate yourselves from Hebrew Roots by telling people not to keep every law that is for them?
1. Love in Judaism - Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 5:43; Matthew 19:19; Matthew 22:37-39; Hebrews 7:11; 2 Corinthians 3:7-15.
2. Love in Christianity - Matthew 5:44; John 13:34; John 15:12; Galatians 5:22; 1 Corinthians 13; Hebrews 7:12; Hebrews 8.
Hebrews 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek [Psalm 110:4], and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law [Jeremiah 31:31-34; Luke 5:36-39].
2 Corinthians 3:12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face [Exodus 34] so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
We ARE to judge one another, judge spirits, judge doctrine against the Counsel of Theos, or God, or LORD, or whatever word you use in place of YHWH our Elohim. We are to judge among believers, and discipline them. And throw out the divisive and heretical ones. Not many should be teachers. HR hits on modern Christianity's weaknesses. Maybe fix the problems so the big "C" church isn't in error, and then worry about your brother's eye. Neither camp is doing it right "by the Book." CRT? BLM? Lady pastors? LGBTQ embraced? Materialistic holidays with Jesus colored frosting on top? Divorce in the Church, REMARRIAGE after? Premarital sex? Abortions? Men not leading families in headship and stuardship? Doubting biblical accuracy and authority? Charismatic nonsense? Osteen? These are problems Evangelicalism has nursed to maturity since the 1850's. Both Fundamental Evengelicalism and HR have brought me closer to the Truth and full beauty of my Elohim, Yeshush the Messiah-King, and the fullness of Scripture. This divisive shit needs to stop. I say shit because that is exactly the filthy, crude rubbish that it is. Fear God and keep His commandments, for that is man's all.
Exactly 🎯🎯🎯🎯
I'm hearing a lot of replacement theology in this by your guest.
Sounds like you don't understand "supposed to". Clean animals were in Noah, so yes, Egypt was "supposed to" and just didn't, along with the rest of the nations.
Galatians 3:7, Romans 11:17
Apologia Studios: everyone is in a cult.
FLDS, Children of God, Mansons, Rashneejpuram, Branch Davidians: are we a joke to you?
I guess you can say I am in the Hebrew Roots movement. Most of us don't use the term Hebrew Roots because there are so many conflicting beliefs within the HR movement some good some not so good just as in other denominations. There is no central doctrine for the HR movement. It's more of a grassroots movement within Christianity. Most of us like to use the term Torah Observant. Torah Observant is a better term for referring to believers in Messiah who follow God's Law (Torah). Keeping the Torah and the teachings of the Messiah are central to HR's beliefs. Mainly keeping the 10 commandments which Messiah taught, and also keeping the Sabbaths and Feast. There are many different views on the Trinity within the HR movement just as in other denominations. I believe in God's oneness, meaning God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one person, not three persons. John 1 makes it clear that Yahshua is God & creator and the scriptures teach there is only one true God and creator. Andrew Schumacher did a great job explaining the HR movement even if I disagree with his characteristics of the movement. Also, most Torah Obersvant believers do not believe that the animal sacrificial system for sin is still applicable today due to the ultimate sacrifice of the Messiah. Although most Torah Observant believers like to use the Hebrew names of God (Yahweh, Yahovah, etc..) and Messiah (Yahshua), most of us are not dogmatic about it. It is pretty common to still hear people use the term God and Jesus in Torah Observant congregations. The main goal of this movement is to teach that obedience to the commandments of God is still applicable today along with our belief in Messiah.
Respectfully brothers, you guys come across like you have everything figured out. That your reformed Christian thinking is the perfect recipe. I'd be really careful. Your theology is based on interpretations that you've been fed over the centuries that is almost as bad as the pharisees in Jesus' day.
Now I know that my comment will be received with contempt - all I can do is pray that you will search your hearts with humility.
Last comment: the 2 pages that are absolutely not God inspired that's in the bible, are the pages that split the bible in Old and New Testaments. I challenge you to show me where it's part of God's plan to have these 2 sections in His Word. I would argue those 2 pages are absolutely man-inserted. With HUGE consequences.
By-the-way polygamy is not off the table in this movement.
True
Are the mormons Christians? Do they practice polygamy?
They would say that they're christians.
Not all Hebrews teach polygamy is okay. According to Christ and the Disciples it is wrong.
@@pt9474 read closely. Slim said “polygamy is not off the table”. I read it carefully before I responded under it. He was not generalizing. I agree it’s not off the table. I am in at least 20 Torah groups on Facebook. It’s definitely not off the table for many and many who don’t practice brush it off with those who do or I have heard some say “it’s not a sin but not Fathers best”. Again some do and some don’t. I am sticking with my comment of agreement that it’s not off the table in that movement
@@angelcollector22 It's not off the table for Christians either. I'm stating as a Hebrew it is off the table. Because of Scriptures it is off the table. The groups you are in do not speak for all Hebrews. I'm just bringing some balance here.
Because the comment made to an unlearned person, could determine whether to take Hebrews seriously or to brush them off automatically.
@@pt9474 never said the groups I am in speak for all Hebrews
Has not all man created some form of traditions
I escaped the grip of Satan's Sunday lawless church myself, Trinity, Father and son are co equal, Lets test that...... my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, MY Father is my God. John 20:17. Trinity people promote Another Messiah.
You should have an actual messianic teacher on. Yeshua was a Jew last I checked. He wasn’t eating pork on Sunday that’s for sure. Thank you though for a pretty fair view. The sacred name ppl are over the top and need to stop. I love Jesus/Yeshua Doesn’t matter to me what name you say. I was saved in Jesus name. I do now prefer to use the Hebrew names but it’s not something to argue about 😅 we have freedom in Christ. No need to be so dogmatic about stuff.
Continued:
Another disconnect is the misunderstanding of what the realm of life is. We were born again and given newness of life. So we could walk in His ways by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is indisputable in scripture. The realm of life or realm of death is determined by God Himself (as well as what is holy and what is profane). So that is an issue you can continue to debate as far as law-breaking and law-keeping. Calling those who choose His ways, instructions and blueprint for life ‘wolves’ is damaging to your own show considering you call yourselves those who are not antinomian. The claims of prairie dresses and homesteads is pretty foolish too. I don’t wear them and don’t have a homestead, but neither of those things are sins deserving of these cult labels. I am not sure who Mrs. Schumacher is calling biblically illiterate, but this movement has the cream of the crop when it comes to teachers and biblically sound doctrine. And they are Bereans who do study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.
I started to listen to the second portion of this when scriptures were actually discussed and the accusations were even more absurd. Both Mr and Mrs Schumacher need to repent for their mischaracterization of this movement. It seems they have now made it a life mission to protect the church against it. That is sad because in doing so they have no basis to refute homosexuality, necromancy, divination, false signs and wonders, trips to heaven (and hell), prosperity, fake healing crusades, Catholic priesthood, Eucharist, worship of Mary etc. It all falls into the category of new covenant made-up laws that Our Messiah did not observe Himself nor did His followers. These were later added and placed under an umbrella of the new covenant. Disconnecting what He did observe (which is the Torah) leaves all of you without any foundation for what you believe or the picture of righteousness that is indicative of the true Messiah. Sad indeed...
A covenant you cannot accurately define is not a covenant at all. This is a perfect example of reading into the text ‘modern day Christianity’ and assuming that is the same culture that existed in the early church. When in reality their lives were centered around temple worship (until it was later destroyed), they were keeping the Sabbath, the feast days, the kosher food laws, etc. To remove that context and culture and apply modern Christian practices into what they believed (and did) is a time travel that just isn’t going to work. It’s also not wide spread the progression of rejecting Paul or Messiah as Mrs Schumacher stated. There are many good teachers who clarify Paul’s letters and if anyone does go into this error, they are condemned for that and not considered part of the community from that point on. They may carry these heresies to others, but not with the blessing of the Torah community as a whole. As far as being Abraham’s seed and a fulfillment of that promise? That seed folks is ‘redeemed Israel’. Abraham’s seed is not gentile Christians. Pretty simple actually. Messiah is synonymous with the natural tree, grafted us in, we abide in Him by our obedience to His kingdom rule. It never morphs into something disconnected from that identity. His Bride and God’s people are Israel. The entire Bible is written to those ‘people’. We have just lost the true definition of what that name means and who it is. We lost our identity and with that our purpose.
May Our King be glorified in all that we do.
[Isa 61:3 NASB95] 3 To grant those who mourn [in] Zion, Giving them a garland instead of ashes, The oil of gladness instead of mourning, The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting. So they will be called oaks of righteousness, The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.
[Rev 22:11-14 NASB95] 11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy." 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Get the fruits, be "One" with Ruach HaKodesch, of such there is NO LAW.
Like tripping the rest of your life, except, ALL falls into place.
"If my people pray and turn to me..."
" I will hear their prayers".
Please consider.
Turn to the Almighty.
Each day... moment by moment.
Genesis 7:2-3
You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; 3 also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep [a]the species alive on the face of all the earth.
14 clean animals and 2 of the unclean, clearly there is a distinction between the clean and unclean prior to Moses. On a side note if they are any of the UNCLEAN animals then the would have a mate and thus the species would become extinct. This is just one of the inconsistencies in the video, if we can now eat unclean meats like pork then why does Isaiah say that on the Day of the LORD that eaters of swines flesh will be destroyed.
Isaiah 66:15-17
For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.
Why do will the levitical priesthood, animal sacrifices, and the temple all be returning with Messiah as seen in Ezekiel chapters 40-48.
Lastly Two House theology is literally ALL over your Bible, you need to have someone like Zach Bauer from New2Torah on the show instead of teaching it secondhand. Maybe Andrew and Zach could have a civil debate, I’d love to see the outcome of that and Zach would agree I am sure.
So you expect Christmas, Easter, Bacon in heaven right and when you meet Jesus and his church they are on the wrong side not you. You came to free us from God and all his plans executed through his feasts and prophecies. "Christians" who identify as an animal, orange or new gender and who marry a camel all say the same thing - back then we had laws and they are not for us, we're under grace love and lots of meaningsless words that are less inspiring than listening to a pig farting. Let me answer you satan, God indeed said what he said, and he meant what he meant, and he started what he will finish amen.