I missed playing the Dreamcast, I used to play a couple of my favorite classic games, like Prince of Persia and Tomb Raider The Last Revelation. Anyway brilliant work on another video! :)
Hey there! So big question (or little) and hope you can respond to this. (also I'm from Canada) I bought myself a VGA2HDMI Just so I can record videos for my Dreamcast on VGA (and maybe stream). i use Elgato HD (Classic) and Elgato HD60s. Turns out Elgato will not show anything, because of the unsupported Resolution Elgato has. With that being said, from the video I just watched. Does this BBS's VGA Box To HDMI work on Elgato? or do you use something else to record your games that's not Elgato?
I can't say I'm very impressed with the RGB SCART version. It looks noticeably darker than VGA. A few years ago, I purchased a Dreamcast SCART lead from Retro Gaming Cables to replace my VGA box. I returned it and switched back to VGA when I noticed the loss in brightness. Apparently these VGA to RGB converters all use 10ohm resistors to bring the voltage down into something that SCART can use. Unfortunately, this makes the picture darker.
I think the loss in brightness is mostly caused by the blank lines of the interlace image. Every second line in a single image is black, that costs brightness. ;)
I did the same and was SHOCKED. I still had a great 29'' Sony flat screen CRT and I plugged in my Dreamcast through RGB component and everything looks so much sharper and colorful. I think the depth of color on the CRT is just miles better compared to VGA on a modern LED tv.
Woo, it's the return of the comparison series, but from a totally different perspective. I wasn't aware that it's exactly 20 years since the Dreamcast came out in Europe. Nice, let's celebrate.
Honestly, aside from VGA to HDMI looking a little bit washed-out, I couldn't notice much of a difference. I guess this means I don't need to worry about buying a VGA CRT just for the Dreamcast.
VGA is sharper, completely flicker-free and does not have the sawtooth-effect on edges in motion; but also, the aliasing is more pronounced in 480p. 480i has a slight anti-aliasing-effect which makes the picture look more natural IMO.
Yes and is some way the aliasing is another form of sawtooth. For me for 2D games VGA is superior as often things was visually more static even when moving. And all images had their antialiasing in themselves so to speak. And often finer line details. And for 3D as you say it moved more and often had lines that when just going from horizontal vertical created this aliasing. Also even with filtering thin lines zoomed out started to wobble even more there. I think the I actually is flicker free on Dreamcast. It has those mode where it could stretch out / repeat the line. So I was not really true 640x480. But more 640x240 with some kind of simpler form of blending interpolation in y. Might remember it wrong tho
@@litjellyfish 480i used the full height 480p backbuffer and then downsampled it vertically into 240 lines, so it was 240 pixels with 2x vertical supersampling. That, combined with the less harsh, more natural image of TVs back then made the image look very natural and anti-aliased, which is why I preferred it over VGA.
Retro Gaming Cables sells a Dreamcast SCART cable that has some extra circuitry and a switch built in for toggling between 15 kHz (480i/576i) and 31 kHz (480p). The 31 kHz is supposedly not any kind of standard SCART signal, and won't work with old CRT TVs' SCART inputs, but you can hook it up to a Framemeister or OSSC, which can understand it and get the equivalent of VGA quality without the inconvenience of an additional piece of hardware (Toro). Also, audio also goes through the SCART so you don't need extra audio cables to add to the cable spaghetti. This seems to be the most practical way to hook up a Dreamcast in 2020 for someone who already has an upscaler/scan doubler (i.e. Framemeister/OSSC) and get the best quality - assuming you're only planning to use an HDTV. Plus the switch with 15 kHz mode is helpful for the Dreamcast titles that did not support 480p and doesn't require you to reconnect differently. Not many people seem to be talking about it, though... has anyone tried this setup out and found it the same as using the Toro?
I purchased retrogamingcable's 'Sega Dreamcast PACKAPUNCH RGB 480p SCART cable' and am quite pleased with it. I never used the Toro so I can't comment on the difference between the two. However, I was using a cheap VGA cable through the OSSC prior to purchasing the 480p SCART from RGC. The VGA was sharper in my opinion but the colors appear deeper and not so washed out with the SCART cable. Additionally, the option to flip the switch for non-VGA games is super convenient. I understand that VGA carries the horizontal and vertical sync separately and perhaps this is the reason the cheap VGA cable appears "sharper"?
Are you familiar with retrogamingcable's 'Sega Dreamcast PACKAPUNCH RGB 480p SCART cable'? I purchased this and am quite pleased with it. It manages to provide a progressive signal but also contains a switch on the back for non-VGA games. I do feel like it is somewhat less sharp than a cheap VGA cable that I use but still looks crispy!
@@ps123fan The product page actually says that traditional SCART TVs don't accept the 31khz signal. So, for that, stick with the 15khz mode. However, I understand that some CRT monitors support progressive scan so, in those instances and coupled with a SCART to BNC or whatever, the 31khz mode should work. I don't own a CRT and use via OSSC to flat panel.
@@CDbiggen Yeah, I actually had to import it from the UK from RetroGamingCables website. I believe their's was out of stock last time I checked but Insurrection Cables in US also makes a similar cable that you could import to UK. OSSC is an incredible upscaler (line doubler) that makes retro consoles truly excel.
RGB has better colours unless that has to do with RGB running in 50hz because I've heard PAL resolutions and refresh rates have better colour accuracy. Although I have seen RGB in action and usually it's more colourful compared to VGA. Now I wanna see the Dreamcast over VGA but running in 480i mode (that is possible if you don't know Dreamcast has cable select options thats why you commonly see a switch on soldered VGA connector mods for the Dreamcast).
When you use RGB, PAL/NTSC encoding is no longer relevant. RGB 50Hz or 60Hz should have the same colors. The difference is probably about different Digital to Analog conversion, video level etc.. betwenn the VGA and RGB output. (+ Analog to Digital conversion of the upscaler)
@@kikooe Ah yes this is true. I learned this later on. Because encoding isn’t relevant to the colours in RGB is the reason why my NTSC TV’s that don’t have proper PAL support will run in full colour if I run a console through component or RGB but composite and s-video is black and white.
What are your opinions of the RGB SCART cables that support 480p modes? I purchased the ' Sega Dreamcast PACKAPUNCH RGB 480p SCART cable' from RGC and am pretty pleased with it. The colors appear deeper/less washed out when compared to a cheap VGA cable I was using through OSSC. And, of course, the convenience of the 15/31 kHz switch is a huge selling point. However, I will say the 480p SCART is not quite as sharp as the VGA cable. Any ideas why this might be?
Hi hope you don't mind sharing the final setup. I am starting my retro journey and the Dreamcast has been a monster of its own in my collection. Is your setup as follows? Dreamcast -> Behar Bros. Toro -via VGA-> Frame Meister -> HDMI In my case I plan to replace Framemeister with an OSSC
Hi, my hardware has changed since but if you plan to get an OSSC, this would work: Dreamcast -> Behar Bros. Toro -via VGA -> OSSC -> HDMI Because I have a Sony BVM-D24 that accepts 480p, I had to add an Extron to the chain to sort the sync: Dreamcast -> Behar Bros. Toro -via VGA -> Extron -> GSCART -> OSSC (or BVM) -> HDMI Or, if it's just the OSSC you want to use, you can buy this cable: www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sega/SEGA-DREAMCAST-RGB-SCART-CABLES/SEGA-DREAMCAST-RGB-SCART-CABLE-WITH-480P-MODE Then you can do this: Dreamcast -> SCART -> OSSC -> HDMI And you can get 480p from it :)
@@JetPackTails a final follow-up. What if I go Dreamcast -via VGA-> OSSC? I haven’t found good literature about this. My end goal is to use a modern TV. Nonplans to go PVM or BVM. I am also trying to avoid scart and vga and focus on component only but the DC is just special in its own way.
I guess that since RGB is literally 3 monochromatic 480i pictures on top of eachother, there might be more subtle sub-pixel detail? I don't know, it just looks more organic, like if it was captured with film.
I knew there had to be a scart lead, all the US youtubers ignore it, obviously. VGA is better, but I don't think the scart lead is a bad choice and it's easier to hook up
My framemeister was set to limited for both. I made sure of that because I also noticed the colour shift. But yeah, VGA does appear a bit greyish. Maybe because it's more accurate? I'm not sure. Someone who's more technical minded may know the answer because theoretically, it should be just 480i Vs 480p.
@@JetPackTails yeah, it might be more accurate that the colors aren't as vibrant.to be honest it is weird since no one uses the framemeister, they've all gone to the ossc. Not saying it's better for you, but since that is full range always it might have messed up. Also the framemeister can destroy a little bit HDMI signals so it's better if you run it directly to the capture card
@@TheA_Gamer554 I've always considered the OSSC; even after having the framemeister for a while. But I know a lot of TVs and capture cards are real fussy with it (due to it passing through odd signals from consoles) and I'm not keen on its deinterlacing effect either. So for now, I'm content with the framemeister 😊 EDIT: And I've switched accounts unintentionally lol
![[GTU] Matos - Dreamcast, quel cable choisir ?](/img/n.gif)
To go straight to the RGB Vs VGA comparisons, use this timestamp: 2:53
I missed playing the Dreamcast, I used to play a couple of my favorite classic games,
like Prince of Persia and Tomb Raider The Last Revelation. Anyway brilliant work on another video! :)
Hi there
Hey there! So big question (or little) and hope you can respond to this. (also I'm from Canada)
I bought myself a VGA2HDMI
Just so I can record videos for my Dreamcast on VGA (and maybe stream).
i use Elgato HD (Classic) and Elgato HD60s.
Turns out Elgato will not show anything, because of the unsupported Resolution Elgato has.
With that being said, from the video I just watched.
Does this BBS's VGA Box To HDMI work on Elgato? or do you use something else to record your games that's not Elgato?
I can't say I'm very impressed with the RGB SCART version. It looks noticeably darker than VGA. A few years ago, I purchased a Dreamcast SCART lead from Retro Gaming Cables to replace my VGA box. I returned it and switched back to VGA when I noticed the loss in brightness. Apparently these VGA to RGB converters all use 10ohm resistors to bring the voltage down into something that SCART can use. Unfortunately, this makes the picture darker.
I think the loss in brightness is mostly caused by the blank lines of the interlace image. Every second line in a single image is black, that costs brightness. ;)
After years of playing in vga on a modern lcd, I went back to rgb on an old consumer crt, it looks so much better imo
I did the same and was SHOCKED. I still had a great 29'' Sony flat screen CRT and I plugged in my Dreamcast through RGB component and everything looks so much sharper and colorful. I think the depth of color on the CRT is just miles better compared to VGA on a modern LED tv.
@@mistersurrealist yes, the colours are so alive on a crt, there's really no competition
Oh man, you miss so much by skipping vga crt monitor...
@@Rusutall Old games (before PS3 era) look way better on a CRT, with RGB of course ^^
Mainly the crt putting in work, not the rgb
this is way past cool! keep it up man!
Woo, it's the return of the comparison series, but from a totally different perspective.
I wasn't aware that it's exactly 20 years since the Dreamcast came out in Europe. Nice, let's celebrate.
Honestly, aside from VGA to HDMI looking a little bit washed-out, I couldn't notice much of a difference. I guess this means I don't need to worry about buying a VGA CRT just for the Dreamcast.
Happy Aniversary Dreamcast!
VGA is sharper, completely flicker-free and does not have the sawtooth-effect on edges in motion; but also, the aliasing is more pronounced in 480p. 480i has a slight anti-aliasing-effect which makes the picture look more natural IMO.
Yes and is some way the aliasing is another form of sawtooth.
For me for 2D games VGA is superior as often things was visually more static even when moving. And all images had their antialiasing in themselves so to speak. And often finer line details.
And for 3D as you say it moved more and often had lines that when just going from horizontal vertical created this aliasing. Also even with filtering thin lines zoomed out started to wobble even more there.
I think the I actually is flicker free on Dreamcast. It has those mode where it could stretch out / repeat the line. So I was not really true 640x480. But more 640x240 with some kind of simpler form of blending interpolation in y. Might remember it wrong tho
@@litjellyfish 480i used the full height 480p backbuffer and then downsampled it vertically into 240 lines, so it was 240 pixels with 2x vertical supersampling.
That, combined with the less harsh, more natural image of TVs back then made the image look very natural and anti-aliased, which is why I preferred it over VGA.
@@MH-yp6wg exactly. Spot on. Thanks for putting out our more clearly than me. Totally agree with you 💚
Retro Gaming Cables sells a Dreamcast SCART cable that has some extra circuitry and a switch built in for toggling between 15 kHz (480i/576i) and 31 kHz (480p). The 31 kHz is supposedly not any kind of standard SCART signal, and won't work with old CRT TVs' SCART inputs, but you can hook it up to a Framemeister or OSSC, which can understand it and get the equivalent of VGA quality without the inconvenience of an additional piece of hardware (Toro). Also, audio also goes through the SCART so you don't need extra audio cables to add to the cable spaghetti. This seems to be the most practical way to hook up a Dreamcast in 2020 for someone who already has an upscaler/scan doubler (i.e. Framemeister/OSSC) and get the best quality - assuming you're only planning to use an HDTV. Plus the switch with 15 kHz mode is helpful for the Dreamcast titles that did not support 480p and doesn't require you to reconnect differently. Not many people seem to be talking about it, though... has anyone tried this setup out and found it the same as using the Toro?
I purchased retrogamingcable's 'Sega Dreamcast PACKAPUNCH RGB 480p SCART cable' and am quite pleased with it. I never used the Toro so I can't comment on the difference between the two. However, I was using a cheap VGA cable through the OSSC prior to purchasing the 480p SCART from RGC. The VGA was sharper in my opinion but the colors appear deeper and not so washed out with the SCART cable. Additionally, the option to flip the switch for non-VGA games is super convenient. I understand that VGA carries the horizontal and vertical sync separately and perhaps this is the reason the cheap VGA cable appears "sharper"?
Ah yes, good old dreamcast!
Beautiful!
The HDMI looks good! The Dreamcast on RGB looked ok back then, but this is some difference!
RGB on a good CRT tv still looks AMAZING. The problem is deinterlaced RGB on a modern LCD screen, it just doesn't look as good as VGA.
So in the end. Rrb is a tiny bIt better. So affordable go with whichever is cheaper and easier to obtain for 99% of people
Kaico HDMI + MClassic Upscaler combined 🔥🔥
Damn, VGA do be looking quite nice
Are you familiar with retrogamingcable's 'Sega Dreamcast PACKAPUNCH RGB 480p SCART cable'? I purchased this and am quite pleased with it. It manages to provide a progressive signal but also contains a switch on the back for non-VGA games. I do feel like it is somewhat less sharp than a cheap VGA cable that I use but still looks crispy!
soo 480p can work on a regular rgb scart tv.. if the tv supports progressive 480p in a sense.. am i right? only if though right?
@@ps123fan The product page actually says that traditional SCART TVs don't accept the 31khz signal. So, for that, stick with the 15khz mode. However, I understand that some CRT monitors support progressive scan so, in those instances and coupled with a SCART to BNC or whatever, the 31khz mode should work. I don't own a CRT and use via OSSC to flat panel.
@@tubinonyou , This sounds really helpful, can I get this in the UK and what is an OSSC? Many thanks.
@@CDbiggen Yeah, I actually had to import it from the UK from RetroGamingCables website. I believe their's was out of stock last time I checked but Insurrection Cables in US also makes a similar cable that you could import to UK. OSSC is an incredible upscaler (line doubler) that makes retro consoles truly excel.
Love your vids
RGB has better colours unless that has to do with RGB running in 50hz because I've heard PAL resolutions and refresh rates have better colour accuracy. Although I have seen RGB in action and usually it's more colourful compared to VGA. Now I wanna see the Dreamcast over VGA but running in 480i mode (that is possible if you don't know Dreamcast has cable select options thats why you commonly see a switch on soldered VGA connector mods for the Dreamcast).
When you use RGB, PAL/NTSC encoding is no longer relevant. RGB 50Hz or 60Hz should have the same colors. The difference is probably about different Digital to Analog conversion, video level etc.. betwenn the VGA and RGB output.
(+ Analog to Digital conversion of the upscaler)
@@kikooe Ah yes this is true. I learned this later on. Because encoding isn’t relevant to the colours in RGB is the reason why my NTSC TV’s that don’t have proper PAL support will run in full colour if I run a console through component or RGB but composite and s-video is black and white.
What are your opinions of the RGB SCART cables that support 480p modes? I purchased the '
Sega Dreamcast PACKAPUNCH RGB 480p SCART cable' from RGC and am pretty pleased with it. The colors appear deeper/less washed out when compared to a cheap VGA cable I was using through OSSC. And, of course, the convenience of the 15/31 kHz switch is a huge selling point. However, I will say the 480p SCART is not quite as sharp as the VGA cable. Any ideas why this might be?
This is strange it should be the same sharpness-wise. I want to buy a 480p SCART cable too for my xrgb-mini but there are out of stock everywere...
Hmm... I might need to try VGA to HDMI for my Dreamcast.
Hi
So, this is ALMOST a 50 vs 60hz video...
It's more like a My Life in Gaming Episode
The VGA/HDMI shots have edge enhancement added (bad). Is sharpness on on that input?
In the US the RGB Scart cable doesn’t exist so we would have to use vga unless we wanted to import
Hi hope you don't mind sharing the final setup. I am starting my retro journey and the Dreamcast has been a monster of its own in my collection.
Is your setup as follows?
Dreamcast -> Behar Bros. Toro -via VGA-> Frame Meister -> HDMI
In my case I plan to replace Framemeister with an OSSC
Hi, my hardware has changed since but if you plan to get an OSSC, this would work:
Dreamcast -> Behar Bros. Toro -via VGA -> OSSC -> HDMI
Because I have a Sony BVM-D24 that accepts 480p, I had to add an Extron to the chain to sort the sync:
Dreamcast -> Behar Bros. Toro -via VGA -> Extron -> GSCART -> OSSC (or BVM) -> HDMI
Or, if it's just the OSSC you want to use, you can buy this cable: www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sega/SEGA-DREAMCAST-RGB-SCART-CABLES/SEGA-DREAMCAST-RGB-SCART-CABLE-WITH-480P-MODE
Then you can do this: Dreamcast -> SCART -> OSSC -> HDMI
And you can get 480p from it :)
@@JetPackTails a final follow-up.
What if I go Dreamcast -via VGA-> OSSC?
I haven’t found good literature about this.
My end goal is to use a modern TV. Nonplans to go PVM or BVM.
I am also trying to avoid scart and vga and focus on component only but the DC is just special in its own way.
Composite, lol
as an option?
We're going real deep eh? You got 16% so far...
I personally prefer VGA with the Dreamcast
Wow!
The colors on VGA looking better to me but I'm going with both no problem.
I guess that since RGB is literally 3 monochromatic 480i pictures on top of eachother, there might be more subtle sub-pixel detail? I don't know, it just looks more organic, like if it was captured with film.
I knew there had to be a scart lead, all the US youtubers ignore it, obviously.
VGA is better, but I don't think the scart lead is a bad choice and it's easier to hook up
the video looks weird cuz you were rendering limited rgb as full rgb, that's why the white looks dull and the blacks look greyish
My framemeister was set to limited for both. I made sure of that because I also noticed the colour shift. But yeah, VGA does appear a bit greyish. Maybe because it's more accurate? I'm not sure. Someone who's more technical minded may know the answer because theoretically, it should be just 480i Vs 480p.
@@JetPackTails yeah, it might be more accurate that the colors aren't as vibrant.to be honest it is weird since no one uses the framemeister, they've all gone to the ossc. Not saying it's better for you, but since that is full range always it might have messed up. Also the framemeister can destroy a little bit HDMI signals so it's better if you run it directly to the capture card
@@JetPackTails one with very technical answers and videos might be Bob from RetroRGB
@@TheA_Gamer554 I've always considered the OSSC; even after having the framemeister for a while. But I know a lot of TVs and capture cards are real fussy with it (due to it passing through odd signals from consoles) and I'm not keen on its deinterlacing effect either. So for now, I'm content with the framemeister 😊
EDIT: And I've switched accounts unintentionally lol
Great PQ! When i connect my Dreamcast to my Pioneer PDP428XD i get no signal? Should work fine or does it require some settings?
RF < AV Composite < S-Vídeo < AV Component < VGA < DVI < HDMI < Displayport.
HDMI KAICO is better than VGA? ☺️
Dreamcast was doing HD before HD was a thing
HD was a thing then. That is why it has the resolution it had > consumer demand
Vga more good
Hi!
Have u tried RF😂
Hi
First