An update here. Further digging into the MONTAGE M data list has revealed that [Arp MIDI Out] is not completely lost - but the flexibility to enable it at will has been. Any parts set as external will output the notes generated by arpeggios over MIDI, but there is no way to do so for internal parts. See recent comments in yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/yamahasynth/idea/175518
Hi, I saw another video tutorial for Midi Settings on Montage M. Did you try to select on setting, midi settings and local control switch to on ? Then, maybe you will here both internal and external triggered sounds.. I hope it works. I was thinking to buy one montage m, just to combine VST and internal sounds but with a simple mute button to mute internal sound if needed as I could do on my very old Korg Pa3x pro.. Will be appreciated if you share your result. Best regards
No, that won’t work, although to be clear, this setting does not mean that Montage M won’t play ANY internal sounds when external parts are enabled, but rather than PARTS set to external can’t play internal sounds.
I agree that this is a terrible change. Personally I am using a lot of AU instruments within Mainstage but also 8 parts of my Montage 7. Thinking of converting to the new Montage M7 I would have to merge parts together to exceed a maximim of seven parts + 1 external part. That would be possible as the limitation of 8 elements per Part was kicked but way beyond a 1:1-conversion. Thanks for sending this to Yamaha via idea scale.
It might not be totally clear from the video, but external MIDI handling for MONTAGE M is very, very different from the classic MONTAGE. The change is not limited to sending MIDI program change messages, but to notes too. While classic MONTAGE would transmit MIDI notes for all parts at all times, MONTAGE M will *only* transmit MIDI messages for parts set as External, which in turn disconnects the tone generator, except for parts with keyboard control enabled, which always transmit on the global MIDI channel regardless of the internal/external switch. In conjunction with the loss of the Arp MIDI Out setting, this makes MONTAGE M a far less capable master MIDI controller than the classic MONTAGE or even the MODX, which is a real shame.
I agree the new method is more straightforward, but classic Montage and MODX already had this ability, with the option to also play the internal tone generator or not, according to the user’s choice. Surely having the choice is the superior system?
So I'm taking it you could still have one part as an internal sound and one part as and external part layered across the same key zone? Surely this is better as you can then set different volume levels etc for the different parts? By this I mean that if you tweaked the volume of the internal part then MIDI would send the volume level for that internal part out to the external bit of gear which may not be right for the external sound?
Yes, you can do that with Montage, MODX and Montage M very easily. The difference is that while Montage and MODX allow you to have both the internal tone generator AND an external synth in the same part if you wish, the flexibility to do so is somewhat reduced with Montage M.
Kier - I'm new to your channel, having subscribed basically because I am - or should I say 'WAS' - very close to pulling the trigger to acquire a Montage M7 to replace my old but venerable Korg M3. So I want to make 100% sure I am correctly interpreting your criticism in this video. Are you saying that currently it is NOT possible to layer a Montage M's internal sounds with external sounds? That it's only one or the other? If so, that in my book is a monstrous deficiency that cripples its utility as a MIDI controller for me. A large percentage of the time I layer the internal sounds of my M3 with VSTs. I set up my MIDI channel routing the way I want and then simply turn local control on or off. I consider this to be an indispensable BASIC feature and had always assumed it's possible to do this on pretty much ANY keyboard with MIDI connectivity, let alone one as capable as Yamaha's new flagship synthesizer. Thus I would find it completely mystifying if Yamaha's design and development team somehow concluded that this basic functionality is unnecessary. Please tell me that I have misinterpreted your comments!
Hi Steve, thanks for the sub! To clarify any confusion, no Yamaha has not removed the ability to layer internal sounds with external synths, but they have reduced the flexibility with which it can be done, compared to the classic Montage. A Montage performance is made up of sixteen 'parts' - consider each of these to be a separate instrument, so you might have a piano part, a pad part, a bass, some percussion etc... Any of these parts can be flagged as 'external', in which case they will send MIDI to an external synth, rather than triggering the internal tone generator, so now you could have the Montage playing the piano, pad, bass and percussion, and have a fifth part playing a lead on an external synth, all at the same time. The difference between Montage M and the classic Montage is that while Montage M parts can be internal or external, the classic Montage allowed each parts to be both if that's what you want, so part 5 could be playing both internal sounds and also playing an external synth. Montage M removes this ability, so you effectively lose an internal part for each outgoing MIDI channel you want to send. For lots of people, this won't be an issue at all, as you can still have plenty of internal parts playing alongside the external parts playing external gear or VSTs, but for me it's quite a loss, and I hope Yamaha changes the behaviour in a future firmware update, along with bringing back the Arp MIDI Out setting.
@@KierDarby Thanks, Kier, for clarifying the situation for me. It certainly is a relief to know that the Montage M can still control both internal and external sounds. But I fully agree with your view that Yamaha should not have removed the ability for individual parts to control both, as I really can't see the downside to retaining this feature from the original Montage. FWIW, I registered as a new member of IdeaScale specifically to add my vote to your feature request (and several others).
An update here. Further digging into the MONTAGE M data list has revealed that [Arp MIDI Out] is not completely lost - but the flexibility to enable it at will has been. Any parts set as external will output the notes generated by arpeggios over MIDI, but there is no way to do so for internal parts. See recent comments in yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/yamahasynth/idea/175518
Hi, I saw another video tutorial for Midi Settings on Montage M. Did you try to select on setting, midi settings and local control switch to on ? Then, maybe you will here both internal and external triggered sounds..
I hope it works. I was thinking to buy one montage m, just to combine VST and internal sounds but with a simple mute button to mute internal sound if needed as I could do on my very old Korg Pa3x pro.. Will be appreciated if you share your result. Best regards
No, that won’t work, although to be clear, this setting does not mean that Montage M won’t play ANY internal sounds when external parts are enabled, but rather than PARTS set to external can’t play internal sounds.
I agree that this is a terrible change. Personally I am using a lot of AU instruments within Mainstage but also 8 parts of my Montage 7. Thinking of converting to the new Montage M7 I would have to merge parts together to exceed a maximim of seven parts + 1 external part. That would be possible as the limitation of 8 elements per Part was kicked but way beyond a 1:1-conversion. Thanks for sending this to Yamaha via idea scale.
It might not be totally clear from the video, but external MIDI handling for MONTAGE M is very, very different from the classic MONTAGE. The change is not limited to sending MIDI program change messages, but to notes too.
While classic MONTAGE would transmit MIDI notes for all parts at all times, MONTAGE M will *only* transmit MIDI messages for parts set as External, which in turn disconnects the tone generator, except for parts with keyboard control enabled, which always transmit on the global MIDI channel regardless of the internal/external switch.
In conjunction with the loss of the Arp MIDI Out setting, this makes MONTAGE M a far less capable master MIDI controller than the classic MONTAGE or even the MODX, which is a real shame.
I like this behavior. So external is a dedicated part. Really like this to be honest.
I agree the new method is more straightforward, but classic Montage and MODX already had this ability, with the option to also play the internal tone generator or not, according to the user’s choice. Surely having the choice is the superior system?
So I'm taking it you could still have one part as an internal sound and one part as and external part layered across the same key zone? Surely this is better as you can then set different volume levels etc for the different parts? By this I mean that if you tweaked the volume of the internal part then MIDI would send the volume level for that internal part out to the external bit of gear which may not be right for the external sound?
Yes, you can do that with Montage, MODX and Montage M very easily. The difference is that while Montage and MODX allow you to have both the internal tone generator AND an external synth in the same part if you wish, the flexibility to do so is somewhat reduced with Montage M.
Kier - I'm new to your channel, having subscribed basically because I am - or should I say 'WAS' - very close to pulling the trigger to acquire a Montage M7 to replace my old but venerable Korg M3. So I want to make 100% sure I am correctly interpreting your criticism in this video. Are you saying that currently it is NOT possible to layer a Montage M's internal sounds with external sounds? That it's only one or the other? If so, that in my book is a monstrous deficiency that cripples its utility as a MIDI controller for me. A large percentage of the time I layer the internal sounds of my M3 with VSTs. I set up my MIDI channel routing the way I want and then simply turn local control on or off. I consider this to be an indispensable BASIC feature and had always assumed it's possible to do this on pretty much ANY keyboard with MIDI connectivity, let alone one as capable as Yamaha's new flagship synthesizer. Thus I would find it completely mystifying if Yamaha's design and development team somehow concluded that this basic functionality is unnecessary. Please tell me that I have misinterpreted your comments!
Hi Steve, thanks for the sub!
To clarify any confusion, no Yamaha has not removed the ability to layer internal sounds with external synths, but they have reduced the flexibility with which it can be done, compared to the classic Montage.
A Montage performance is made up of sixteen 'parts' - consider each of these to be a separate instrument, so you might have a piano part, a pad part, a bass, some percussion etc...
Any of these parts can be flagged as 'external', in which case they will send MIDI to an external synth, rather than triggering the internal tone generator, so now you could have the Montage playing the piano, pad, bass and percussion, and have a fifth part playing a lead on an external synth, all at the same time.
The difference between Montage M and the classic Montage is that while Montage M parts can be internal or external, the classic Montage allowed each parts to be both if that's what you want, so part 5 could be playing both internal sounds and also playing an external synth. Montage M removes this ability, so you effectively lose an internal part for each outgoing MIDI channel you want to send.
For lots of people, this won't be an issue at all, as you can still have plenty of internal parts playing alongside the external parts playing external gear or VSTs, but for me it's quite a loss, and I hope Yamaha changes the behaviour in a future firmware update, along with bringing back the Arp MIDI Out setting.
@@KierDarby Thanks, Kier, for clarifying the situation for me. It certainly is a relief to know that the Montage M can still control both internal and external sounds. But I fully agree with your view that Yamaha should not have removed the ability for individual parts to control both, as I really can't see the downside to retaining this feature from the original Montage. FWIW, I registered as a new member of IdeaScale specifically to add my vote to your feature request (and several others).
@@SteveinJersey1234excellent, thank you!
Hopefully they change it with an update
Fingers crossed!
@@KierDarby it would be an easy fix for them that’s for sure