Porsche have never backed down from anything, they showed that with the 959 and their multiple Le Mans winning efforts when the company was basically bankrupt. They live for this stuff. These are Germans, not Americans, I'm just surprised we Italians didn't give them the idea.
A rotating gear assembly on a rotating crank assembly....for each piston. Balancing and timing that would be a huge nightmare for mechanics/engine rebuilders.
With the patent filing, they probably are making a jump on the EPA or equivalent agency requirements for allowable emissions, with the double burn, any left over fuel gets a post burn, as you said, replacing needs for maybe EGR valves and or Catalytic Converters. Not to mention how expensive in both waste and materials those CC's are.
It’s analogous to the second expansion piston solution used in steam engines of yesteryear. A clever way to extract a little extra push out of those hot pressurized gases.
The port arrangement will mean it needs forced induction (turbo or supercharger) as it’s very similar to the old Detroit diesel 2 strokes. If it’s only relying on the slight effect through scavenging there won’t be that great a performance gain, just added complexity. In any type of machinery, the simpler the better. This is just less reliability for some possibly dubious gains.
Effiency of this can not depend on exhaust port velocity to pull in a fresh charge. It simply will not make much additional power at low RPM without a blower. This is why naturally aspirated two strokes (ported cylinder) have to 'get on the pipe', and Detroit diesel two strokes use a blower to make their power at low RPM.
Its tapping into the old Double Expansion Steam Engine concept as applied to ICE units. Honestly I was expecting a two banked/two sized piston solution using that concept... but here we are going with more complex.
Nope. Mitsu GDI was first mass production gasoline direct injection - today found in nearly every new car. I had this engine (1.8L) and it truly worked - car was very fuel efficient.
Odd firing strokes isn't a problem. Motorbikes - at least performance ones - deliberately have weird power strokes in order to allow the tyres to have a period of lower force on them to increase overall cornering speed and traction. Now, the complexity? That's another story. I owned a Cayman S for a couple of years and one of the camshafts snapped. When it was in the garage the Porsche mechanic took me into the workshop and showed me where it had snapped. Right in the middle. His words were, 'That's odd. Normally they snap at the drive end.' My response being there's nothing normal in my book about a snapped camshaft. Thankfully the car was under warranty or I'd be looking at a 7K bill. Another bloke I know had a number of 911's one after the other. Every one had major issues, usually leaking seals on the drive. His sister had a convertible which decided to open up in the middle of winter by itself when it snowed.. Bottom line is that Porsches are no where near as reliable as these shows say they are and a super complicated engine? Yeah. I might give that a miss.
I’m wondering if the motivation is to have a more efficient onboard ICE for the purpose of acting as a generator for a ‘hybrid’ car that uses electric motors to power the wheels?
This somewhat makes sense if using forced induction and direct injection where the stoichiometric mix can be managed and unburnt fuel losses avoided - but N/A with port injection... really ?
Can't wait for all the armchair engineers to come out of the woodwork and explain to the world how this engine is the worst thing ever made and Porsche's engineers don't know what they're doing, etc.
It's not that it's the 'worst' thing ever made (that title will remain with anything Stellantis makes), but the design makes the engine setup as complicated as that other engine Nissan created a couple years back. Putting more moving parts in an engine will most likely decrease the longevity and/or reliability.
So they found a way to make a compound engine that burns petrol. Hopefully this gets put into a car sooner rather than later, the potential of this needs to be explored. After all, just look at what compound engines did for ships 100+ years ago. Hell, the fastest steam train in the world had a compound engine.
Koenigsegg I think has the superior technology. Electric Valves it does away with camshaft all together and you can have any variable intake and exhaust valving
While this is amazing tech I think Porsche is better off pursuing E fuels. E fuels would allow you to keep the conventional ICE design while still meeting the absurd environmental regulations.
I wouldn't say its overcomplicated at all, the tech is pretty basic and resembles similar things in valve tech we've seen through the years (vtec, Mivec). Given there is a difference between the two but both were considered complicated originally and then later made very main stream. The part I don't understand, Porsche are one of the manufactorers that are moving towards electric and Hydrogen powered cars, this tech doesn't seem to fit with that model UNLESS they have plans for this to be primarily a hydrogen powered engine which does change things quite alot.
My 6.0 diesel would like a word with you... 😂 This is a way to get around an EGR system from what I can gather, which is required to meet emissions standards nowadays. My truck is low miles for an '07 (89k miles as of today) and I'm on my 3rd egr valve. And yes I've tried to clean and reuse them. The next thing to change is the EGR cooler but I'll delete it because I don't have to do SMOG tests
It will work but there will be a host of issues with reliability. The gear on the crank will be another source of failure, the secondary injection ports too. I honestly don't see the point of this when Hydrogen and/or electric seems to be the future.
If a hydrogen generator was installed to constantly trickle hydrogen into the engine or a fuel canister it could actually make petrol fuel burning more efficient. You can plug it in at night and it fills up the canister with hydrogen. It could alternate between petrol fuel and hydrogen or a combination of both during driving. Hydrogen actually will clean up your emissions to the point where you don't even need a catalytic converter. And your home could be your fuel station.
@PseudonymAliase I was thinking the same thing but with natural gas. Hydrogen would definitely work. Oxygen would work too, but the volatility isn't practical.
@@bryankotsch hydrogen engines exist volatility is totally practical. The problem is it costs $250 to $350 to fill up your hydrogen canisters and go 300 to 500 miles
@PseudonymAliase We need a more streamlined way to extract hydrogen and oxygen from water. Of course, big oil companies would not be happy. I remember the Bugatti that ran on propane or natural gas as well as gas and achieved the same top speed. Fastest car in the world for a brief period in the 90's.
Using a mix of gasoline and ethanol also give cleaner emissions. My MB190E would not pass the emissions tests here without running 40% ethanol and rest gasoline mix.
Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping @Manscaped with code DRIVETRIBE at bit.ly/Manscaped-DT-YT-24 #manscapedpartner
Have you ever seen Kurt Caz' manscaped promos on his channel?
I'm never again eFing around with Porsche they the 👑👑👑👑
4 strokes is usually how long I last, not sure 6 strokes is useful for me.
I like to powerstoke
You usually get to _four?_ I'd love your staying power. I've being working my way up to 3 for years....
I throw in the towel at 2 strokes , it’s unnecessary I tell you
Time is money
"How big engine is that"
"2.0L to 2.3L"
"Wait, which one?"
"Yes"
Marketing "laws" dictate that they use the bigger number haha
Now that is going to be a unique sound
unlikely that will reach mass production. No sane person would buy this. Then again most new cars in western world are leases.
And i would assume a pretty hot running engine.
It will likely sound like two engines running out of slightly out of phase with each other.
Probably sounds like an expensive maintence bill as well
@@BurninSnowManit might need a twin V-mount cooling system
i would be quaking in my boots rn if i were a porsche mechanic
You mean laughing all the way to the bank
Porsche have never backed down from anything, they showed that with the 959 and their multiple Le Mans winning efforts when the company was basically bankrupt. They live for this stuff. These are Germans, not Americans, I'm just surprised we Italians didn't give them the idea.
I want engineering explained
Based on the
thumbnail I thought that is what I did.
Me too
Look for "driving 4 answers" video on this topic.
I walk inside the Renault showroom and ask for a Volkswagen too
@@JuiceLayer-z2r at least your example is actually viable 😂😰
Love the TDC reference.
A rotating gear assembly on a rotating crank assembly....for each piston. Balancing and timing that would be a huge nightmare for mechanics/engine rebuilders.
For reals and let’s not forget the higher risk of detonation and grenading that rod.
This took so long to explain,his beard grew back
Kudos to Porsche for trying to keep the internal combustion engine alive! From Synthetic Fuel to 6 strokes! Thank you Porsche!
Yea i jusr wished I had the money for it 😢😢
With the patent filing, they probably are making a jump on the EPA or equivalent agency requirements for allowable emissions, with the double burn, any left over fuel gets a post burn, as you said, replacing needs for maybe EGR valves and or Catalytic Converters. Not to mention how expensive in both waste and materials those CC's are.
All of the serviceable parts like chain guides and tensioners will definitely be easy to replace, requiring no special tools or transmission removal.
German cars requiring specialised tools and difficult maintenance/rebuild processes?! Say it ain't so, chief
Mike doing this nerdy stuff is his happy place. Nice one i love it. ❤️
Great work on this! Explained it very nicely. And loved the little TDC reference :)
Those are going to have to be some mighty strong planetary gears!
0:43 .... bruh 🤣
Feel like the crank will be working hard and wearing fast
It’s analogous to the second expansion piston solution used in steam engines of yesteryear. A clever way to extract a little extra push out of those hot pressurized gases.
It would be crazy if they slaped a turbocharger on it aswell
The port arrangement will mean it needs forced induction (turbo or supercharger) as it’s very similar to the old Detroit diesel 2 strokes. If it’s only relying on the slight effect through scavenging there won’t be that great a performance gain, just added complexity. In any type of machinery, the simpler the better. This is just less reliability for some possibly dubious gains.
@CattaroFuran Jep but European manufacturers, need to follow strict emissions, so its probably why they did this.
Great presentation of this new technology. I could imagine that this will change the standards. Thank you for this video, Mike.
Porsche is first and foremost an engineering company!
Seems more like a save the planet idea
Top Dead Centre fans gather here
I guess we need to find a use for phonebooths...
Effiency of this can not depend on exhaust port velocity to pull in a fresh charge. It simply will not make much additional power at low RPM without a blower. This is why naturally aspirated two strokes (ported cylinder) have to 'get on the pipe', and Detroit diesel two strokes use a blower to make their power at low RPM.
its like EGR inside engine
Was thinking thr same
Cant wait to see what a lot of boost does to those crankshaft gears.
Thank you Porsche for keeping our dreams and futures bright
Yea if you cam afford a Porsche, I can't 😢😢
Its tapping into the old Double Expansion Steam Engine concept as applied to ICE units. Honestly I was expecting a two banked/two sized piston solution using that concept... but here we are going with more complex.
Reminds of Smoky Yunicks hot vapor engine.
The infamous double dip, I know all about that 😂
Didn’t Mitsubishi do something similar with the GDI motor back in the late nineties
Nope.
Mitsu GDI was first mass production gasoline direct injection - today found in nearly every new car.
I had this engine (1.8L) and it truly worked - car was very fuel efficient.
Brilliant explanation! Thanks!
Let me know when they actually measure 50% thermal efficiency.
Well explained, Mike.
Odd firing strokes isn't a problem. Motorbikes - at least performance ones - deliberately have weird power strokes in order to allow the tyres to have a period of lower force on them to increase overall cornering speed and traction.
Now, the complexity? That's another story. I owned a Cayman S for a couple of years and one of the camshafts snapped. When it was in the garage the Porsche mechanic took me into the workshop and showed me where it had snapped. Right in the middle. His words were, 'That's odd. Normally they snap at the drive end.' My response being there's nothing normal in my book about a snapped camshaft. Thankfully the car was under warranty or I'd be looking at a 7K bill.
Another bloke I know had a number of 911's one after the other. Every one had major issues, usually leaking seals on the drive. His sister had a convertible which decided to open up in the middle of winter by itself when it snowed..
Bottom line is that Porsches are no where near as reliable as these shows say they are and a super complicated engine? Yeah. I might give that a miss.
You’re talking about firing orders on motorcycles. Not strokes
I'll try to explain that to my 40yo 944. Any issue I’ve had was due to user and maintenance/repair errors of someone else.
Holy maintenance, Batman
I’m wondering if the motivation is to have a more efficient onboard ICE for the purpose of acting as a generator for a ‘hybrid’ car that uses electric motors to power the wheels?
Loved this video! Exceptionally well explained !
I'm interested in that bus in the back with the house doors on it.
Looks like a mix of 4 and 2 stroke into one engine.
Yet another example from engineers of "just cause you can doesnt mean you should."
This combution engine addict sees the silver lining!
This somewhat makes sense if using forced induction and direct injection where the stoichiometric mix can be managed and unburnt fuel losses avoided - but N/A with port injection... really ?
6 strokes yes, but for petrol but for alternative combustion energy that Porsche is working on!
This feels more like a second channel upload
I would like to know how they are going to keep those secondary intake ports from becoming gunked-up.
I wonder if it's going to sound like a v10. 🤔 that would be pretty sweet
Nice work. Nice vid.
How will it sound? Do you hear 2 “firings”?
Can't wait for all the armchair engineers to come out of the woodwork and explain to the world how this engine is the worst thing ever made and Porsche's engineers don't know what they're doing, etc.
It's not that it's the 'worst' thing ever made (that title will remain with anything Stellantis makes), but the design makes the engine setup as complicated as that other engine Nissan created a couple years back. Putting more moving parts in an engine will most likely decrease the longevity and/or reliability.
Your prophecy came true! You are like an Oracle! Very wise!
Imagine saying that about even a single German engineer. Lol.
Probably not the best culture to target.
I want to hear it
This sounds like an EGR but with extra steps.
It’s like a combination between a 2stroke and a 4stroke. Interesting
This will change what cylinder count and arrangement is naturally balanced, right?
I need to hear the sound of this
This was my nickname in freshman year.
8:09 Not to be pedantic, but it was a 5.7L V10 (5733cc) in the Carrera GT instead of a 5.4L.
That is so pedantic. 😀
For more accuracy, delete the first and fifth word of your comment.
@@barryvyner1161 Not to be pedantic, but if he deletes the first word then the fifth word becomes "it".
@@barryvyner1161 I can play this game, highlight both words and delete them at the same time and he is correct. lol
So they found a way to make a compound engine that burns petrol. Hopefully this gets put into a car sooner rather than later, the potential of this needs to be explored. After all, just look at what compound engines did for ships 100+ years ago. Hell, the fastest steam train in the world had a compound engine.
What must this engine sound like ?! It's bonkers !
the planetary gears will break like there's no tomorrow, put money on that. those additional air ports will probably also keep getting blocked.
It’ll probably sound like it’s lower revving even if it’s spinning at 8K rpm
I really want to hear what this would sound like.
Different strokes for different folks!
now can we get a turbo for each intake please?
Koenigsegg I think has the superior technology. Electric Valves it does away with camshaft all together and you can have any variable intake and exhaust valving
While this is amazing tech I think Porsche is better off pursuing E fuels. E fuels would allow you to keep the conventional ICE design while still meeting the absurd environmental regulations.
Porsche is already leading the way in this as well, though.
how do you prevent the oil from sticking on the bottom intake in this engine?
Piston works as valve itself. Just like in 2-stroke.
I was hoping EVs would push combustion engines to get weird but this just seems overcomplicated.
So you guys saw What the D4A channel did.
I’m confused! 😂
That planetary gear is going last 100k miles, not.
New engine is very promising but.. when it breaks.. ouch!
It won't break, it's a Volksw-.... oh....
Those planetary gears are just another costly repair job waiting to happen.
Wouldn't this put more strain on the block
Horribly overcomplicated and seems like a way to make it cleaner running? Maintenance costs will rival aircraft.
I wouldn't say its overcomplicated at all, the tech is pretty basic and resembles similar things in valve tech we've seen through the years (vtec, Mivec). Given there is a difference between the two but both were considered complicated originally and then later made very main stream.
The part I don't understand, Porsche are one of the manufactorers that are moving towards electric and Hydrogen powered cars, this tech doesn't seem to fit with that model UNLESS they have plans for this to be primarily a hydrogen powered engine which does change things quite alot.
@@MrWiggz69 Porsche is actually pushing Clean combustion fuel/Bio Fuel over electric. They invested heavily in that area already.
@@MrWiggz69
They already making synthetic fuels and working on making it cheap.
My 6.0 diesel would like a word with you... 😂 This is a way to get around an EGR system from what I can gather, which is required to meet emissions standards nowadays. My truck is low miles for an '07 (89k miles as of today) and I'm on my 3rd egr valve. And yes I've tried to clean and reuse them. The next thing to change is the EGR cooler but I'll delete it because I don't have to do SMOG tests
It's maintenance costs can't be worse than EV depreciation or battery replacement. I know which one I'd rather have.
Wait, this engine has been confirmed? There was only a patent filed and people jumped on it like it's a thing now.
This gave some hope to the gearheads.
50% efficiency? I will believe it when I see it. It would mean a vehicle that gets 20mpg will be getting close to 30 mpg.
That means the cams are gonna be extra long
Its kind of like less complex sleeve valve engine.
TL;DR porsche wants to implement a new EGR system so that they can meet future emissions standards
Interesting concept if it actually works.
It will work but there will be a host of issues with reliability. The gear on the crank will be another source of failure, the secondary injection ports too. I honestly don't see the point of this when Hydrogen and/or electric seems to be the future.
A flat six doesn’t sound any different from a 60-degree V6 (the usual angle).
So more power but shorter lifespan ?
That's the new normal 😢
This might be the worst idea they’ve ever come up with ever since they put their Tiger 1 engine on the heavier Tiger II
The valves are moving the wrong way in that animation
I would like porsche stop using 911 name if they ever have to go completely electric… 911 should be ICE cars
This sounds like a nightmare timing and crank sensors my gawd. I would assume each connection rod would have a sensor as well. Good luck Porsche
But does it mean more power!!
Soooo more parts to break? Got it.
Does it bug anyone else that the animation shows the valves going the wrong way?
Just me?
Ok...
Sounds like another half ice way of reducing HC.
Probably will work with electric motors to even power output
Good way to increase revenue on engine repairs
planetary inside an engine? sounds expensive)
I think Mike would shoot all DT videos in a scrapyard if he could...
If a hydrogen generator was installed to constantly trickle hydrogen into the engine or a fuel canister it could actually make petrol fuel burning more efficient. You can plug it in at night and it fills up the canister with hydrogen. It could alternate between petrol fuel and hydrogen or a combination of both during driving. Hydrogen actually will clean up your emissions to the point where you don't even need a catalytic converter. And your home could be your fuel station.
@PseudonymAliase I was thinking the same thing but with natural gas. Hydrogen would definitely work. Oxygen would work too, but the volatility isn't practical.
@@bryankotsch hydrogen engines exist volatility is totally practical. The problem is it costs $250 to $350 to fill up your hydrogen canisters and go 300 to 500 miles
@PseudonymAliase We need a more streamlined way to extract hydrogen and oxygen from water. Of course, big oil companies would not be happy. I remember the Bugatti that ran on propane or natural gas as well as gas and achieved the same top speed. Fastest car in the world for a brief period in the 90's.
Using a mix of gasoline and ethanol also give cleaner emissions. My MB190E would not pass the emissions tests here without running 40% ethanol and rest gasoline mix.
@@a64738 I have an E85 compatible engine in my Dodge Ram. Ethanol burns fast, so you sacrifice travel distance for a cleaner burn.
Neat!
Shuttle shout out to TDC. 🤣🤣🤣
What do engineers do when bored. They create overly complex machines that no one asked for to show off their abilities.