Aaron Rand, Bill Brownstein and Leslie Chesterman host Joe Ortona, chair of the English Montreal School Board (EMSB) on The Corner Booth at the Snowdon Deli.
If you believe that elementary school kids from the EMSB graduate with equal French as their French counterpart - they aren’t. Even FR teachers at the emsb say so.
I'm a proud Greek-Canadian landed immigrant. I lived in the French neighborhood in the 60's so I picked up more my French. I got 97% in oral French and 82 % in written French in high school finals. Then 3 years career program in CEGEP I never had to use French again at work of 44 years in mechanical engineering & design so how much more french do we need. Actully I was helping french speaking co-workers cause all tech drawnings are in english. Merci
I am still not clear why the government wants the EMSB to teach LESS French (1:15). Is it because students studying French in EMSB schools are achieving higher results in the French exit exams than students in the French schools in Montreal (2:30 - 3:10)?
Le souci pour les Québécois attachés à la survie du fait français au Québec ce n'est pas tant la qualité de l'usage du français mais la quantité. Ainsi que des anglophones ou des allophones aient un "très bon niveau scolaire" en français ne sert à rien si ces mêmes anglophones ou allophones n'en font qu'un usage très ponctuel (à la demande) et qu'ils sont de fait des vecteurs quotidiens de la généralisation de l'anglais à Montréal, s'ils pratiquent le "English über alles"... D'autant plus que les francophones de leur côté sont soumis à la très forte pression de la pompe aspirante du "tout à l'anglais" de McGill, du Canada, d'Amérique du Nord, de l'Internet, du tourisme, des médias, des entreprises et du monde globalisé... Car comme d'hab nos trois amis du Corner Booth feignent de ne pas voir l'éléphant au milieu de la pièce... il leur a fallu la dernière fois qu'un vieux pofesseur d'université montréalais francisé (à l'origine un anglophone de New-York je crois) vienne leur mettre le nez dans leur propre "caca" en leur expliquant la nocivité du "bonjour/hi"... bon au moins ils avaient eu le mérite de l'inviter. Qu'ils invitent prochainement le fameux "Michael Rousseau", ce serait tellement éclairant !
Better to invite Jean-Benoît Nadeau, journaliste indépendant, chroniqueur linguistique à L'Actualité on the show. He quickly dispels the CAQs ridiculous claims that French is on the decline.
Very interesting debate! 1:39 Not clear… Are the following curriculum available in English schools: French as a second language, French immersion and bilingual schools? or is this French first language program? In minority schools that is to say French schools in other provinces students have the program of English Language art the same as in English schools. A high level of competence is required to allow students to attend a college or university but above all to participate in cultural and economic life. 2.39 Is the evaluation in grade 6 and Sec 5 really the same in both sectors? In other words, do students in English schools undergo the same examination as those in French schools? To compare the results of the francophone sector with those of the anglophone sector, the program requirements must be considered. When considering evaluation grids, because outside the network it is very difficult to obtain copies of exams, the available correction grids do not have the same weightings. Compare what is comparable 2:54 Research shows that students in minority language schools do better than those in majority schools…. The first factor is increased parental and community support. 2nd factor: Often schools are smaller... sometimes the ratio is smaller. 3:16 Learning 2 languages in EMSB schools and only one in Francophone school centres… This is a perception problem. We must take into consideration the clientele and the appeal of English. For some students, English is the preferred language of communication in primary and secondary schools even if they attend a French school. 3:28 This perception problem really exists. But it is wrong to deny the existence of linguistic baths (English immersion) in the 3rd cycle of primary and enriched courses in secondary. 4:19 French and English public schools must accommodate all students. Private one have not. 4:37 Honestly, the French-speaking system welcomes more allophones. These students are learning a foreign language. In 2019, allophones represented 43.1% of the school population. 37.6% of students had French as their mother tongue. In 2019, half of the students who attended the CSSDM, CSSMB and CSSPI schools did not have French as their mother tongue. Between 22% and 38% did not have French as a language spoken at home. 57% of EMSB students and 86% of LBPSB students were native English speakers. Allophones accounted for 34% at EMSB and 8% at LBPSB. 9:19 Teacher qualification is the same whether you teach public or private. However, there is a huge difference in the difficulties and requirements of the task. The salary is often the same in unionized schools. In some private schools the salary is higher but in others it will be much lower in some schools that are not. 16:12 The worst mistake that Quebec society has ever made in school under the denominational system. To present this argument is like what we criticize Quebeckers and francophones in minority communities for repeating all the anti-French laws and regulations that prohibited French-language education until the 1980s and 1990s. However, it must be admitted that several communities preferred the English system. Let’s move on! 20:07 It is the same dilemma that francophones in minority communities have.
Ortona likes to tout the EMSB is better at teaching French. Well…it isn’t. It scored marginally better than French public schools on the island of MTL. It falls short on the provincial average. Not to mention it doesn’t even write the same test. Barely 30% of EMSB take the equivalent french test as their French counterpart. When you tout 71ish success rate, you set the bar really really really low Ortona.
@@DonaldMains except it isn’t better, they score slightly below the provincial average. Furthermore, it’s not the same test nor is it the same French course.
@@FirstLast-et3sw Interesting. One would expect that it would be the same test fully expecting that Anglos would score lower than Francos. As would be expected for Francos taking an Anglo college admission test.
Let’s remember these are children. Children are not born to hate, and discriminate. They are taught by adults. French and English speaking children should be in the same school. Along with immigrant children. Learning many languages, which is easier to learn as children. Children can show adults how to behave properly and how to treat one another. Peace, love and kindness.
@@DonaldMains I'm a franco in Montreal and it's pretty obvious French is losing ground. You experience it every day if you really try to live in this city in French Linguistic transfer rates for immigrants are about 50/50 French English and that is documented by Stats Canada. Immigrants are the majority of our population growth. So yes, as time goes on under the current conditions we are moving closer to 50/50 French/English, which is a decline of French. Also it's pretty obvious that once English reaches a certain dominance the decline will accelerate. Therefore there is good reason to be concerned.
@@Imsemble the original Post was " When Americans speak English in Quebec, no problem. The truth is that English has been on the decline since old René came onto the political scene." it wasn't my post. I only pointed out that according to Mr. Legaullt, Roberge and Plamodon that French is on decline. The good news is that Mr. Legaullt, Roberge and Plamodon aren't spending any time worrying about health care, housing , education, and transportation so they can spend all their time making sure no restaurant has Pasta on the menu.
Teachers in the public system are more qualified because they have a harder job, they teach students that cannot be kicked out of school.
If you believe that elementary school kids from the EMSB graduate with equal French as their French counterpart - they aren’t. Even FR teachers at the emsb say so.
Remember they are children. They try their very best.
Bravo - this guy needs more airtime.
I'm a proud Greek-Canadian landed immigrant. I lived in the French neighborhood in the 60's so I picked up more my French. I got 97% in oral French and 82 % in written French in high school finals. Then 3 years career program in CEGEP I never had to use French again at work of 44 years in mechanical engineering & design so how much more french do we need. Actully I was helping french speaking co-workers cause all tech drawnings are in english. Merci
I am still not clear why the government wants the EMSB to teach LESS French (1:15). Is it because students studying French in EMSB schools are achieving higher results in the French exit exams than students in the French schools in Montreal (2:30 - 3:10)?
They aren’t achieving better results. EMSB students score less than the QC average not better.
@@FirstLast-et3sw Not according to the video. Where are you getting your conclusions from?
Le souci pour les Québécois attachés à la survie du fait français au Québec ce n'est pas tant la qualité de l'usage du français mais la quantité. Ainsi que des anglophones ou des allophones aient un "très bon niveau scolaire" en français ne sert à rien si ces mêmes anglophones ou allophones n'en font qu'un usage très ponctuel (à la demande) et qu'ils sont de fait des vecteurs quotidiens de la généralisation de l'anglais à Montréal, s'ils pratiquent le "English über alles"...
D'autant plus que les francophones de leur côté sont soumis à la très forte pression de la pompe aspirante du "tout à l'anglais" de McGill, du Canada, d'Amérique du Nord, de l'Internet, du tourisme, des médias, des entreprises et du monde globalisé...
Car comme d'hab nos trois amis du Corner Booth feignent de ne pas voir l'éléphant au milieu de la pièce... il leur a fallu la dernière fois qu'un vieux pofesseur d'université montréalais francisé (à l'origine un anglophone de New-York je crois) vienne leur mettre le nez dans leur propre "caca" en leur expliquant la nocivité du "bonjour/hi"... bon au moins ils avaient eu le mérite de l'inviter.
Qu'ils invitent prochainement le fameux "Michael Rousseau", ce serait tellement éclairant !
Better to invite Jean-Benoît Nadeau, journaliste indépendant, chroniqueur linguistique à L'Actualité on the show. He quickly dispels the CAQs ridiculous claims that French is on the decline.
Very interesting debate!
1:39 Not clear… Are the following curriculum available in English schools: French as a second language, French immersion and bilingual schools? or is this French first language program? In minority schools that is to say French schools in other provinces students have the program of English Language art the same as in English schools.
A high level of competence is required to allow students to attend a college or university but above all to participate in cultural and economic life.
2.39 Is the evaluation in grade 6 and Sec 5 really the same in both sectors?
In other words, do students in English schools undergo the same examination as those in French schools? To compare the results of the francophone sector with those of the anglophone sector, the program requirements must be considered. When considering evaluation grids, because outside the network it is very difficult to obtain copies of exams, the available correction grids do not have the same weightings.
Compare what is comparable
2:54 Research shows that students in minority language schools do better than those in majority schools…. The first factor is increased parental and community support. 2nd factor: Often schools are smaller... sometimes the ratio is smaller.
3:16 Learning 2 languages in EMSB schools and only one in Francophone school centres… This is a perception problem. We must take into consideration the clientele and the appeal of English. For some students, English is the preferred language of communication in primary and secondary schools even if they attend a French school.
3:28 This perception problem really exists. But it is wrong to deny the existence of linguistic baths (English immersion) in the 3rd cycle of primary and enriched courses in secondary.
4:19 French and English public schools must accommodate all students. Private one have not.
4:37 Honestly, the French-speaking system welcomes more allophones. These students are learning a foreign language.
In 2019, allophones represented 43.1% of the school population. 37.6% of students had French as their mother tongue.
In 2019, half of the students who attended the CSSDM, CSSMB and CSSPI schools did not have French as their mother tongue. Between 22% and 38% did not have French as a language spoken at home. 57% of EMSB students and 86% of LBPSB students were native English speakers. Allophones accounted for 34% at EMSB and 8% at LBPSB.
9:19 Teacher qualification is the same whether you teach public or private. However, there is a huge difference in the difficulties and requirements of the task. The salary is often the same in unionized schools. In some private schools the salary is higher but in others it will be much lower in some schools that are not.
16:12 The worst mistake that Quebec society has ever made in school under the denominational system. To present this argument is like what we criticize Quebeckers and francophones in minority communities for repeating all the anti-French laws and regulations that prohibited French-language education until the 1980s and 1990s. However, it must be admitted that several communities preferred the English system. Let’s move on!
20:07 It is the same dilemma that francophones in minority communities have.
Its a srtuggle to be serve in french west of mcgill need to applied bill 101 to cegeps in garderies now
That’s definitely not true. Please list exactly where you have experienced this? Have not experienced this at all.
@@MARS67909 marché newon rue st Catherine coin St Mathieu 25 employés aucun ne parlent français
Ortona likes to tout the EMSB is better at teaching French. Well…it isn’t.
It scored marginally better than French public schools on the island of MTL. It falls short on the provincial average.
Not to mention it doesn’t even write the same test.
Barely 30% of EMSB take the equivalent french test as their French counterpart.
When you tout 71ish success rate, you set the bar really really really low Ortona.
Still an English school doing better than a French school, in teaching FRENCH, is quite an accomplishment. No matter the scale you use.
@@DonaldMains except it isn’t better, they score slightly below the provincial average. Furthermore, it’s not the same test nor is it the same French course.
@@FirstLast-et3sw Interesting. One would expect that it would be the same test fully expecting that Anglos would score lower than Francos. As would be expected for Francos taking an Anglo college admission test.
Let’s remember these are children. Children are not born to hate, and discriminate. They are taught by adults. French and English speaking children should be in the same school. Along with immigrant children. Learning many languages, which is easier to learn as children. Children can show adults how to behave properly and how to treat one another. Peace, love and kindness.
@@MARS67909 Good thoughts but how are they relevant to this topic?
The language of the defeated
Dit la Karen sans arguments
When Americans speak English in Quebec, no problem. The truth is that English has been on the decline since old René came onto the political scene.
Tell it to Mr. Legaullt, Roberge and Plamodon. They keep telling us it's French on the decline.
What planet do you live on? Are you seriously saying you hear less English in Montreal than you used to 20-30 years ago? Are you even from Montreal?
@@Imsemble Ask Mr. Legaullt, Roberge and Plamodon. They are the ones that keep telling us it's French on the decline.
@@DonaldMains I'm a franco in Montreal and it's pretty obvious French is losing ground. You experience it every day if you really try to live in this city in French
Linguistic transfer rates for immigrants are about 50/50 French English and that is documented by Stats Canada. Immigrants are the majority of our population growth. So yes, as time goes on under the current conditions we are moving closer to 50/50 French/English, which is a decline of French. Also it's pretty obvious that once English reaches a certain dominance the decline will accelerate.
Therefore there is good reason to be concerned.
@@Imsemble the original Post was " When Americans speak English in Quebec, no problem. The truth is that English has been on the decline since old René came onto the political scene."
it wasn't my post.
I only pointed out that according to Mr. Legaullt, Roberge and Plamodon that French is on decline.
The good news is that Mr. Legaullt, Roberge and Plamodon aren't spending any time worrying about health care, housing , education, and transportation so they can spend all their time making sure no restaurant has Pasta on the menu.