my dude... THIS was awesomely made content, I love your insight, the way you explain things, I can't believe I hadn't come across your channel sooner, here looking forward to all your future videos, cheers!
Thank you! I am glad it is resonating. Numbers are dense and lose some immediately but it looks like there are plenty of people that enjoy the deep dive.
Excellent video. Love the stats breakdown. One of the best newer boardgame channels I've come across. Editing and production value off the scales. Subscribed
Enjoyed this video overall, so thank you for sharing your thoughts. I do think my critique of picks such as Voidfall comes down to issues of selection and choice-supportive biases. People who want to play (and purchase) a very heavy and niche game are more likely to invest time and energy into learning the game and mastering its systems. Simultaneously, the pressure to justify the purchase of a deluxe product is also likely to create complications in assessing the quality of the design itself. The BGG top 100 should not just be a list of 100 games that are appreciated within their own niche communities, but instead be about 100 excellent games that are well-designed, accessible, and engaging for a wide group of people. Heavy games like Voidfall, in particular, are likely to be appreciated by only a small subset of the community as well as a very particular type of personality. In saying all this, I wish BGG was able to implement tiers such as Top 100 light games, top 100 medium-weight, etc. This would further incentivize BGGers to also rate the weights of games to better inform potentially-interested gamers. I wouldn’t want a new-to-gaming player to pick up some of these heavier games early in their journey for fear they will have a poor experience or invest in something that is niche believing it’s representative of “good design”. Edit: Another point is that games like Great Western Trail Argentina are likely to avoid lower ratings from people who did not enjoy the original, skewing the mean significantly due to the absence of these other, potential votes.
yeah these are just predictions based on data not justifying their spot on the top 100, I think the top 100 is an aggregate with imperfect and in many cases outdated information. There is plenty of trolls rating games they have never played and also zealots that rank a game out of blind obedience to the particular publisher god they worship. I think the biggest problem is actually a more simple fix. It is to make people update thier rating every 6 months to a year otherwise it is not calculated in the score. I can't tell you how many times a game comes out of the gates for me a 9+ and settles at a 7 after a year or worse I have gotten rid of it. I have discussed this on a few other videos but my top 100 will never be your top 100 however it would be great to see an aggregated top 100 of like minded gamers to help me discover games that I am more likely to enjoy. Thanks for watching!
What an amazing video idea. I was wondering about the ratings on BGG and if there is hidden gems for a while now. You just went and did the research for me. Instant like and subscribe!
John Company is a masterpiece at a level that transcends most boardgame design. Regardless if it is to your taste, it is an important entry for the boardgame medium of artistic creation.
Ha! We'd have a blast! I will say this. When you go to learn it, play all three seats of a three-player game. I do not recommend trying to learn it with the solo mode. Then if you can, play with four players. As others have said and I agree the rolling teach does work with this game. Don't bother using the promise cards in the first game or two. New players won't understand enough of the game to negotiate much at all in the beginning, but this really takes off in subsequent games. Encourage negotiation, bribery, extortion; the game thrives on good natured but lively table-talk.
Pay special attention to the events in India and the parliamentary phases as these will need the most guidance from you and they are the most confusing at first.
I was just thinking of doing this sort of analysis. You should make a video like this every other year. There will be a new crop of games pushing to crack the top 100 and you could check in on the previous list to see how high they got in the BGG rankings. Great job!
appreciate the suggesting and kind words. Yeah I think I might be scratching the surface a bit on diving into these rankings. I was also thinking about using the data to unearth "hidden" gems. Ones that have high average ranking or high % of 9s and 10s but not the traction to ever propel them into the top 100.
Love the effort put and thought given to this topic. Maybe you could do something similar to find hidden gems outside top 100? By that I mean games that will likely never get anywhere near the top 100, but are gems nonetheless.
Nice video. I think Sky Team is gonna make into the top 100 really soon. A game that is getting a lot of hype is Harmonies, I guess this one will make into the top 100 as well.
I am unsure about harmonies myself but it is still being played in my house so there is that, I thought sky team was interesting but not enough to ever to any content on it. My gaming partner bounced off it hard.
Maybe not something everyone else would appreciate, but I love the metrics you use how you explain them. My one criticism on the year released (and one you address in when discussing exceptions) us print run and availability. Maybe there’s data to prove me wrong but I imagine there are some great games out there that have limited print runs and take a while to get a second edition out. Or games that may get a second life because of an expansion a year or two later. Something like mythic mischief or earthborn rangers could fit in that category. Also just saw an earlier video saying you weren’t feeling well. Glad to seeyou feeling better.
Appreciate the thoughtful comment. Yeah I totally agree and that may be another video:) really deep cuts that might still have a chance. I did see plenty on the list that I love and think belong there. There might just be other variables holding them back. GREAT observation. Also appreciate the kind words.
I think first edition and second edition should be combined. I do think some publishers request that to happen so the vote isn't split. I do know there is a persistent conversation around that. It is tough because even production value changing can and should have an impact on the score. I think about the difference between Castles of Burgundy by awaken realms is a completely different experience from any other version.
Of the games you didn’t mention I think Revive (#108), Clank!: Catacombs (#125), Sky Team (#127), White Castle (#179), Nucleum (#274), and Wyrmspan (#354) have the best shot. I thought Earth was in the top 100 already and was surprised to find out it’s “only” #188 and so I was going to include that one too, but then I saw its average rating is fairly low (7.7) and the distribution doesn’t look particularly promising, with more 7s than 9s.
Great video and well thought out! I was surprised I'd only played Dune Imperium: Uprising from your list. I have played TTR, Pax Pamir, Terra Mystica, Gaia Project, GTW, Hegemony... I really want to try Voidfall and Age of Innovation from your Hidden Gems 👍
I thought Dune Imperium integrates all the expansions, rather than ‘most’, there are only 2! Great set of analytics and a super narration of the review. Thx!
Interesting video. I play a lot of games solo, and I can honestly say I find Voidfall easier to solo than ISS Vanguard. Once you have played Voidfall a few times then it really is slick, whereas I found ISS quite clunky and tough to solo even with only two crew members.
Do you have a hard time going back to Voidfall after a while? After I learned it it was fine but can imagine if I went back now the rules would be overwhelming again
Iss vanguard was a great story and wonderful experience, but the gameplay got really boring after a while. I actually just played the last 4 scenarios as a sort of choose your own adventure style, using the board and cards, but ignoring the dice and hazards completely. I wanted to finish the story, but didn't want to spend another 12+ hours on dice checks. I think it is a great idea for a game, but after 10 games, I found the dice mechanism to get stale, and that's the mechanical core of the whole thing. I loved the ship phase, and would gladly play a whole story campaign that revolved around that. If you are going to play it solo, I'd suggest focusing on finishing the campaign, rather than unlocking everything you can find. If you are still loving it towards the end, go back and explore more, but the story is worth going through.
@@Neon_Gorilla no, not at all. I think it has some amazing ideas, but for most people there's no way they will ever get through a full campaign. I know I have no interest in playing it again, even though on paper it is the perfect game for me. I honestly think it's only rated as high as it is because it's very clear to most people that they won't get through it, and so it has fewer negative rankings than it would if it was more widely played.
Gaia Project is a better game than Age of Innovation because Gaia Project got rid of the "bad" stuff from Terra Mystica, while Age of Innovation still has them.
It's personal taste, I like Gaia Project more too. Cult tracks being less interesting than tech tracks, factions being not as diverse as in GP and the more crowded feeling on the board are kept from TM. The differences between TM and GP are the same between AoI and GP. Personal preference like before and all 3 are still playable (haven't played the fan factions for TM and I still want to try them someday).
I prefer Age of Innovation, but acknowledge it's personal taste. It feels like a much tighter and focused game with more intense interactivity between players.
I love JC2E, but I don't recommend learning the solo mode initially. Its almost best to play the normal game solo (probably playing as 3p, although i suspect the game functions even by yourself for learning purposes). Once you get the flow of the game, you can layer on the Crown on top, which has its own steep learning curve.
Great vid. I think Uprising can climb significantly. Mr Beast is a known Dune player. One vid by him about Uprising is sure to drive reviews, albeit I feel they could end up being false. All the games you list are great solid choices. I think there's some 2024 games already looking good to go up over the years, Agemonia comes to mind and unsurprisingly, wyrmspan.
Have you somehow checked back whether your 9+ measure somehow was a good indicator in the past? I know there is often criticism about the bgg ranking but as far as I understand it is made to give a robust measure. Realistically only if the 9+ ratio stays that way the game will move up there.
No I don’t know how to look at individual score history. You can see rank history over time. It I am making the assumption that the games with this profile and are recent releases have the best chance on being pushed up the ranking. We just don’t know if they will get enough ratings and if for some reason the later adopters rate it differently post hype.
Terra Mystica was my favorite game for several years. Gaia Project replaced it. Age of Innovation goes yet a step further and supplants Gaia Project for me, firmly planting itself among my top 3 games of all time. Mostly, I prefer the balance of the pre-established board, but although theme is certainly thin for this series, I prefer the aesthetic and setting of Age and TM. Age implements the positive changes GP brought to TM and adde even a few more. Love it.
I'd be interested to see the correlation of 10 ratings to price point. I feel like its a tough pill for people to swallow to pay hundreds of dollars for a game and then not give a 10/10. I mean I love Slay the Spire and went all in on the pledge. Paid around $210 I think after all was said and done, but I ended up rating it an 8.5. Money isn't really an issue for me so I just looked at what the game did well and what it didn't do well and adjusted my rating. Does the average BGG rater do this or do you think its a sunken cost fallacy once buying something pricey they got to justify it.
ah very interesting question, I wish I had the price data lined up to the rating to see that, I was also wondering if there is a correlation to 10s and when it was rated meaning do early adopters caught up in the hype tend to rate things higher....slay the spire might be a good example to watch...right now the hype is on this one big time and the vast majority of ratings are 9 and 10 with 10 being the most. It is rated 8.8 which is kind of insane. I have yet to get my copy but I know for a fact there is not way it hits the dopamine per second that the digital version does. The combos and calculations needed just can't be replicated in analog. I hope that being able to play it with my son helps to make up for it. What was holding it back from bing a 10 for you?
Honestly it's just the bookkeeping that's tiresome and holds it back. They did a great job of distilling the essence of the video game but I'm not going to lie moving health on cubes gets old quick especially with a boss who has hundreds of health. Also it's just too much like the video game is that makes sense. There wasn't much new content to discover because I've seen it all. It's also just finicky doing the shuffling, the upgrades, the math. Still a great game I'm just very picky of what I rate a ten. Ark nova and Too many bones for me are tens where I honestly can't think of a real complaint.
what do you mean by it prefers heavy games? I certainly can see the type of person that ranks games on a board game website would be more inclined to like heavy games.
@@KidJV do you think there are a bunch of family/mid weight games that are “better” than the heavier games on the list? I suppose defining “better” is tough since the entire concept is subjective in the first place. It is an aggregate ranking of people’s opinions. Following the logic the question is why aren’t this big population of family mid weight game lover ranking games ? Interesting thought experiment.
@@Neon_Gorilla the lower rank come from users who can't past the learning curve because of the rule book. When I teached it to someone, they always amazed at knowing this hidden gem existence.
I feel like reimplementations having a better score than the originals is mostly expected. Only people who played the first version and liked it would go and play to the new one. And after having played the first version of a game, getting a new version with a breath of fresh air will feel better than playing the older iteration, so people will likely rate it higher than the previous one. If we only looks at scores this way, reimplemented games would always go higher than the original games, and would have an unfairly higher score (by having less low scores) than other games which never got reemplemented.
Bgg does account for this by making games with less votes rank lower. While a revamped edition will get higher scores on average it will also get less scores. For example look at dune:imperium vs dune:imperium:uprising
sounds like another good deep dive, "do reimplementations always have a higher rating?" as @jerelounia8993 BGG does account for this since they do not rank on average rating but using the bayesian average as described in the video. That makes it even more impressive when a game like Gaia Project out ranks Terra Mystica with half the number of ratings. The concentration of ratings near the top is impressive. I do wonder if the FOMO culture of boardgames that developed during the pandemic has this new crop of people in the hobby (I include myself in this group) simply rating things differently?
@@Neon_Gorilla Yeah I understand, I was just pointing out the fact that one of your criteria is looking for games with more 10/9 scores over 8/7, and that favours reemplementations because of the aformentioned reasons. That's also an interesting question. People's standards change over time. The best game 20 years ago might be a miss if released nowadays. Games like Brass and Dune Imperium might fall out of favour 20 years from now. Does that mean that reviews from 5, 10, 20 years ago aren't as important as recent reviews? Should we have an "Average Game Score for the last 3 years" (or however long would feel fair), and would that be a better metric than the ones we have right now?
I believe you are correct that version updates have the potential to rate higher average because it is attempting to appeal to a familiar audience. However I disagree that it will always rate higher, but probably most of the time. It does still have to be better, and the rate of successful iterations would match designers ability to recognize the weak points, shortcomings, or community feedback of the prior edition which should be easy for any competent designer.
or we could weight recent score more heavily, when I say recent I would probably be a pretty long runway, but with all the advancements of games is the perspective of someone that rated it 5 years ago relevant to today? Not sure...a perfect world would have users revisit rankings every couple years or so.
I think Blood on the Clocktower is relatively easy to try before you buy. I played it in March at a convention. Here in Vancouver, BC there's a Blood on the Clocktower group. I imagine most cities of a decent size have their own group. If you're in a small town you may need to take a day trip. Personally I thought the game was just fine. The host was very good and the players were anywhere between beginners and intermediates. I didn't love it or hate it. I could see the potential for a lot of fun with the right group of people. I won't go out of my way to find another play.
Yeah I also wonder how the experience changes when you know the people and setting is right. I know Alex from boardgameco did a video about that aspect specifically with this game. Could also be a reason why there is such a disparity in ratings.
Thanks for reminding me I need to get that to the table. I read the rules and had the best intentions it just got shuffled back on the shelf. I wonder how that compares to legends and classics
@@Neon_Gorilla my favorite bot is the utopians from legends and my favorite civ are the greeks. The total package of Horizons is really strong overall though. If I would do a buyers recommendation it would be: Horizons and/or Classics and then Legends because Legends is for if you want civs that do things differently and you want to explore those mechanics.
@@Neon_Gorilla also might be worth doing a vid on since there isnt that much content on youtube for it. You might attract some new people to your channel
Did you play John Compagny solo ? I was wondering if it was a great game in solo. I know it already is by itself, but I can't find a solo review. Because, I will/would play John Compagny solo if I buy it. I was not sure about GWT New Zealand. I own GWT, and maybe it's too much to have both of them. I'm not surprise you take Void Fall in this list. It's another game I would love to own.... Ahhh! ISS Vanguard! I bought it but don't have it yet, maybe next year when the translation of every thing will be achieve. I have a game I think it's a gemme : Fallen Land (39% of 10, 40% of 9!!!!). It's a new and a niche game. I recommande it. It's not an heavy game, but very fun and so much immersive. However I don't think it will reach the top 100 of bgg. Hélas!
so John company is still on my shelf of shame, I really am excited to play it in a group but less solo which is why I have yet to find the motivation to get it to the table. I think New Zealand is not necessary but if GWT is in your top 10 definitely something to try. Your Fallen Land callout gives me another idea for a video. True hidden games that have relatively few ratings but high scores...that would definitely fit the bill.
I greatly enjoy the solo mode of JoCo. The Crown (your AI opponent) was designed by Richard Wilkins, aka Ricky Royal. He has a YT channel called Box of Delights if you are curious. JoCo is a game of negotiation so it would seem this would not translate to solo well, but Ricky pulls it off. The Crown has a sliding scale of support for or against the Company and you can sway the Crown to act against its interests with favor tokens. It usually costs you more to get them than you gain by spending them so the timing must be right. You may also have to "work with" the Crown for a bit while you build your exit strategy after a betrayal. It is a tight game with tension that I found to be balanced quite well. I still lose more than I win. Part of JoCo is the narrative that unfolds, so if you don't like that aspect from the main game, solo probably won't fair better. The same can be said for the randomness present. One potential criticism is that you will always be consulting the Crown Handbook to see how it will behave on a given turn, and if that sort of every-turn referencing is unappealing, then take note.
Straightforward. Check status, do the thing. I'm not even sure I would go so far as to say tedious. I just know some people have an aversion to constantly referencing a rule book as it were. Thinking about it I have to chuckle and say that it is just simply procedural, which somewhat mimics the running of the company in the regular game.
Omg I have been trying to trade for this forever. I reached out to the publisher to no avail as well. This is constantly pulling at me to late pledge. The publisher said it won’t ever be in retail unless an flgs backed it so it likely would never gather enough rankings. Regardless is a price candidate for “best games that will never be in the top 100”. I need to play it first of course. Great suggestion though.
I think, these games will also join the top100 club by the time: Carnegie Wingspan Asia Darwin's Journey Nucleum Wyrmspan Harmonies Dune: War for Arrakis
yeah I looked many of these and agree there is a shot, they did not have the top heave 9 and 10 rankings which will make it tougher to get over the hump, Wingspan Asia is certainly almost there at 116. There are more than one way to hit the average and that game has a bunch of 8 ratings.
Yeah i have been thinking about that lately. What type of bias that list has. For example I have been playing a bunch of trick taking games and it is hard to find them above an average rank of 7 and unless they are the crew will never make to the top 100. I am have a wonderful time with these games and it’s a shame many won’t ever see them. I do find it curious that nobody you know uses BGG, do you play heavy stuff?
I can definitely see age of innovation breaking in soon. Haven’t decided if I wanna get it and try it considering it is very similar to Gaia project & I think Gaia project has an expansion coming to crowdfunding sometime this year
Yeah Gaia is climbing my list every night I play more on BGA. I have a copy on the way if gamenerdz would ever ship. I really want my wife to like it but am afraid it might not click right away. I am curious on the dynamic of having more spaces clustered together and how that affects the play. I am also a complete sucked for dual layered. I can also do how decoupling the color and faction could be interesting. I am talking myself into it now the more I type. I can see a big 3 TM comparison video I’m my future. But then I might have to get the OG Terra mystica :(
@@Neon_Gorilla I agree that the color & faction combos that can be made is really interesting and one of the main reasons I am interested in getting it. That would be a great video but buying, exploring, and learning all 3 games sounds like a lot. I'm also not very interested in getting OG Terra Mystica because Age of Innovation is a similar theme but just seems the better game.
@@Triston_Yocom I might just play TM on BGG. I have asked capstone for review copies but they have ghosted me in the past so I will probably have to break down and buy AOI.
@@Neon_Gorillait's bag building Cascadia with incredibly great production value. The game is good, but not top tier. The material is among the best in the market. Might fill a spot similar to wingspan with a much higher price and a bit more complexity
yeah I felt like production gimmicks might have made a good first impression but maybe a little shallow in the game aspect but I certainly would give it a try
In my personal opinion I think Blood on the Clocktower cracks top 50 or top 40 eventually!!! (Or even farther when the expansion scripts are released!)
What do you mean about expansion scripts getting released? There are a lot of custom scripts running around, some really refined ones and the players with hundreds of clocktower games played are playing weird stuff anyways. Some are more tested and some are less tested and new characters come out regularly, but should we call this an expansion?
@@Hoellenseher All of the custom scripts are phenomenal content! I agree. What I am referring to is the 3 official scripts that are coming to crowdfunding at some part in the undetermined future. “The Tomb”, “Garden of Sin”, “Midnight in the House of the Damned”, and then the collection of characters within “Greatest Show on Earth”. These have been officially announced for a while and most “experimental” unreleased characters will find a home on one of these scripts when they do eventually come out. I think that when this game comes back to crowdfunding it will give it a decent boost in relevancy again, similarly to how other games that get expansions get thrust back into the limelight with their crowdfunding campaigns.
@@Neon_Gorilla unfortunately interactive euros like those never get the love they deserve. Look at hansa teutonica for example. The only exception I can think of is the current bgg number 1
my dude... THIS was awesomely made content, I love your insight, the way you explain things, I can't believe I hadn't come across your channel sooner, here looking forward to all your future videos, cheers!
Thank you! I am glad it is resonating. Numbers are dense and lose some immediately but it looks like there are plenty of people that enjoy the deep dive.
Excellent video. Love the stats breakdown. One of the best newer boardgame channels I've come across. Editing and production value off the scales. Subscribed
Thanks George. I really appreciate the kinds words and giving me a try.
Great production, I had no idea how the BGG rating was calculated, thanks for explaining!
Thank you
Enjoyed this video overall, so thank you for sharing your thoughts. I do think my critique of picks such as Voidfall comes down to issues of selection and choice-supportive biases. People who want to play (and purchase) a very heavy and niche game are more likely to invest time and energy into learning the game and mastering its systems. Simultaneously, the pressure to justify the purchase of a deluxe product is also likely to create complications in assessing the quality of the design itself.
The BGG top 100 should not just be a list of 100 games that are appreciated within their own niche communities, but instead be about 100 excellent games that are well-designed, accessible, and engaging for a wide group of people. Heavy games like Voidfall, in particular, are likely to be appreciated by only a small subset of the community as well as a very particular type of personality.
In saying all this, I wish BGG was able to implement tiers such as Top 100 light games, top 100 medium-weight, etc. This would further incentivize BGGers to also rate the weights of games to better inform potentially-interested gamers. I wouldn’t want a new-to-gaming player to pick up some of these heavier games early in their journey for fear they will have a poor experience or invest in something that is niche believing it’s representative of “good design”.
Edit: Another point is that games like Great Western Trail Argentina are likely to avoid lower ratings from people who did not enjoy the original, skewing the mean significantly due to the absence of these other, potential votes.
yeah these are just predictions based on data not justifying their spot on the top 100, I think the top 100 is an aggregate with imperfect and in many cases outdated information. There is plenty of trolls rating games they have never played and also zealots that rank a game out of blind obedience to the particular publisher god they worship. I think the biggest problem is actually a more simple fix. It is to make people update thier rating every 6 months to a year otherwise it is not calculated in the score. I can't tell you how many times a game comes out of the gates for me a 9+ and settles at a 7 after a year or worse I have gotten rid of it. I have discussed this on a few other videos but my top 100 will never be your top 100 however it would be great to see an aggregated top 100 of like minded gamers to help me discover games that I am more likely to enjoy. Thanks for watching!
Great video! Production is really good, and I also loved the in depth analysis of the rating data 👌
Appreciate you giving it a try!
Very well done video. I am allways interested in BGG #100 videos.
Thanks for the kind words.
What an amazing video idea. I was wondering about the ratings on BGG and if there is hidden gems for a while now. You just went and did the research for me. Instant like and subscribe!
woo Scratcher...wlcome aboard and happy you game me a try!
John Company is a masterpiece at a level that transcends most boardgame design. Regardless if it is to your taste, it is an important entry for the boardgame medium of artistic creation.
Where do you live. You have me wanting to get it the table right this second ;)
Ha! We'd have a blast! I will say this. When you go to learn it, play all three seats of a three-player game. I do not recommend trying to learn it with the solo mode. Then if you can, play with four players. As others have said and I agree the rolling teach does work with this game. Don't bother using the promise cards in the first game or two. New players won't understand enough of the game to negotiate much at all in the beginning, but this really takes off in subsequent games. Encourage negotiation, bribery, extortion; the game thrives on good natured but lively table-talk.
Pay special attention to the events in India and the parliamentary phases as these will need the most guidance from you and they are the most confusing at first.
I was just thinking of doing this sort of analysis. You should make a video like this every other year. There will be a new crop of games pushing to crack the top 100 and you could check in on the previous list to see how high they got in the BGG rankings. Great job!
appreciate the suggesting and kind words. Yeah I think I might be scratching the surface a bit on diving into these rankings. I was also thinking about using the data to unearth "hidden" gems. Ones that have high average ranking or high % of 9s and 10s but not the traction to ever propel them into the top 100.
I know all of those covers even if you blur them out 😂
The most astute of us would.
Love the effort put and thought given to this topic. Maybe you could do something similar to find hidden gems outside top 100? By that I mean games that will likely never get anywhere near the top 100, but are gems nonetheless.
Love the idea and appreciate the support. I have been thinking about different variations to this and that is a good one.
Nice video. I think Sky Team is gonna make into the top 100 really soon. A game that is getting a lot of hype is Harmonies, I guess this one will make into the top 100 as well.
I am unsure about harmonies myself but it is still being played in my house so there is that, I thought sky team was interesting but not enough to ever to any content on it. My gaming partner bounced off it hard.
Maybe not something everyone else would appreciate, but I love the metrics you use how you explain them.
My one criticism on the year released (and one you address in when discussing exceptions) us print run and availability. Maybe there’s data to prove me wrong but I imagine there are some great games out there that have limited print runs and take a while to get a second edition out. Or games that may get a second life because of an expansion a year or two later. Something like mythic mischief or earthborn rangers could fit in that category.
Also just saw an earlier video saying you weren’t feeling well. Glad to seeyou feeling better.
Appreciate the thoughtful comment. Yeah I totally agree and that may be another video:) really deep cuts that might still have a chance. I did see plenty on the list that I love and think belong there. There might just be other variables holding them back. GREAT observation. Also appreciate the kind words.
Do you think that some titles should have a combined ranking? The Great Western Trails, the 'Havens, etc?
I think first edition and second edition should be combined. I do think some publishers request that to happen so the vote isn't split. I do know there is a persistent conversation around that. It is tough because even production value changing can and should have an impact on the score. I think about the difference between Castles of Burgundy by awaken realms is a completely different experience from any other version.
@@Neon_Gorilla Yeah that's fair. I typically combine them when I talk about rankings or ratings with fellow board gamers
Of the games you didn’t mention I think Revive (#108), Clank!: Catacombs (#125), Sky Team (#127), White Castle (#179), Nucleum (#274), and Wyrmspan (#354) have the best shot.
I thought Earth was in the top 100 already and was surprised to find out it’s “only” #188 and so I was going to include that one too, but then I saw its average rating is fairly low (7.7) and the distribution doesn’t look particularly promising, with more 7s than 9s.
I think those are all likely it all depends on if they can sustain momentum. Revive clank and sky team are very likely.
Great video and well thought out! I was surprised I'd only played Dune Imperium: Uprising from your list. I have played TTR, Pax Pamir, Terra Mystica, Gaia Project, GTW, Hegemony... I really want to try Voidfall and Age of Innovation from your Hidden Gems 👍
thanks for watching Billy, I am finally reading the rules to hegemony tonight, hoping to get it to the table this weekend.
Ticket to ride legacy is going to go through the roof!
I just ordered it ;)
I thought Dune Imperium integrates all the expansions, rather than ‘most’, there are only 2! Great set of analytics and a super narration of the review. Thx!
Thanks Steve!
Interesting video. I play a lot of games solo, and I can honestly say I find Voidfall easier to solo than ISS Vanguard. Once you have played Voidfall a few times then it really is slick, whereas I found ISS quite clunky and tough to solo even with only two crew members.
Do you have a hard time going back to Voidfall after a while? After I learned it it was fine but can imagine if I went back now the rules would be overwhelming again
@@Neon_Gorillagive me a few weeks and I will let you know! 👍
If only there was some sort of stock market for these, this analysis could be a real money maker.
I am legally obligated to disclose that this is not financial advice.
Iss vanguard was a great story and wonderful experience, but the gameplay got really boring after a while. I actually just played the last 4 scenarios as a sort of choose your own adventure style, using the board and cards, but ignoring the dice and hazards completely. I wanted to finish the story, but didn't want to spend another 12+ hours on dice checks. I think it is a great idea for a game, but after 10 games, I found the dice mechanism to get stale, and that's the mechanical core of the whole thing. I loved the ship phase, and would gladly play a whole story campaign that revolved around that. If you are going to play it solo, I'd suggest focusing on finishing the campaign, rather than unlocking everything you can find. If you are still loving it towards the end, go back and explore more, but the story is worth going through.
thanks for the suggestion, do you think it belongs in the top 100?
@@Neon_Gorilla no, not at all. I think it has some amazing ideas, but for most people there's no way they will ever get through a full campaign. I know I have no interest in playing it again, even though on paper it is the perfect game for me. I honestly think it's only rated as high as it is because it's very clear to most people that they won't get through it, and so it has fewer negative rankings than it would if it was more widely played.
May not be the exact same as playing in person, but people do run Blood on the Clock Tower games online, so you could try it out that way
Hmmm….the introvert in my is saying yes but not sure if that would have a similar experience or not.
Gaia Project is a better game than Age of Innovation because Gaia Project got rid of the "bad" stuff from Terra Mystica, while Age of Innovation still has them.
curious what the bad stuff is I have yet to play AOI
It's personal taste, I like Gaia Project more too.
Cult tracks being less interesting than tech tracks, factions being not as diverse as in GP and the more crowded feeling on the board are kept from TM. The differences between TM and GP are the same between AoI and GP. Personal preference like before and all 3 are still playable (haven't played the fan factions for TM and I still want to try them someday).
I prefer Age of Innovation, but acknowledge it's personal taste. It feels like a much tighter and focused game with more intense interactivity between players.
I love JC2E, but I don't recommend learning the solo mode initially. Its almost best to play the normal game solo (probably playing as 3p, although i suspect the game functions even by yourself for learning purposes). Once you get the flow of the game, you can layer on the Crown on top, which has its own steep learning curve.
I think another had the same sentiments on how to table it. What aspects are missing or hard to grok in the solo?
Great vid. I think Uprising can climb significantly. Mr Beast is a known Dune player. One vid by him about Uprising is sure to drive reviews, albeit I feel they could end up being false. All the games you list are great solid choices. I think there's some 2024 games already looking good to go up over the years, Agemonia comes to mind and unsurprisingly, wyrmspan.
Yeah another interesting video to explore are 2024 top 100 predictions. Thanks for watching.
Have you somehow checked back whether your 9+ measure somehow was a good indicator in the past?
I know there is often criticism about the bgg ranking but as far as I understand it is made to give a robust measure. Realistically only if the 9+ ratio stays that way the game will move up there.
Also, fantastic video!
No I don’t know how to look at individual score history. You can see rank history over time. It I am making the assumption that the games with this profile and are recent releases have the best chance on being pushed up the ranking. We just don’t know if they will get enough ratings and if for some reason the later adopters rate it differently post hype.
Thanks
I think Age of Innovation is great (multiplayer and solo)!
Have you played the other TMs? If so is it your favorite? I am playing Gaia every night on BGA and am starting to think I “need” age of innovation.
@@Neon_Gorilla I've only played a demo of GP, never played TM. AoI sold me with its variability
Yeah I assume it is the place to start at this point.
Terra Mystica was my favorite game for several years. Gaia Project replaced it. Age of Innovation goes yet a step further and supplants Gaia Project for me, firmly planting itself among my top 3 games of all time. Mostly, I prefer the balance of the pre-established board, but although theme is certainly thin for this series, I prefer the aesthetic and setting of Age and TM. Age implements the positive changes GP brought to TM and adde even a few more. Love it.
@@sergioperez2771 you are adding fuel to my FOMO fire thanks;)
I'd be interested to see the correlation of 10 ratings to price point. I feel like its a tough pill for people to swallow to pay hundreds of dollars for a game and then not give a 10/10. I mean I love Slay the Spire and went all in on the pledge. Paid around $210 I think after all was said and done, but I ended up rating it an 8.5. Money isn't really an issue for me so I just looked at what the game did well and what it didn't do well and adjusted my rating. Does the average BGG rater do this or do you think its a sunken cost fallacy once buying something pricey they got to justify it.
ah very interesting question, I wish I had the price data lined up to the rating to see that, I was also wondering if there is a correlation to 10s and when it was rated meaning do early adopters caught up in the hype tend to rate things higher....slay the spire might be a good example to watch...right now the hype is on this one big time and the vast majority of ratings are 9 and 10 with 10 being the most. It is rated 8.8 which is kind of insane. I have yet to get my copy but I know for a fact there is not way it hits the dopamine per second that the digital version does. The combos and calculations needed just can't be replicated in analog. I hope that being able to play it with my son helps to make up for it. What was holding it back from bing a 10 for you?
Honestly it's just the bookkeeping that's tiresome and holds it back. They did a great job of distilling the essence of the video game but I'm not going to lie moving health on cubes gets old quick especially with a boss who has hundreds of health. Also it's just too much like the video game is that makes sense. There wasn't much new content to discover because I've seen it all. It's also just finicky doing the shuffling, the upgrades, the math. Still a great game I'm just very picky of what I rate a ten. Ark nova and Too many bones for me are tens where I honestly can't think of a real complaint.
not sure if it is a critique but bgg prefers heavy games
what do you mean by it prefers heavy games? I certainly can see the type of person that ranks games on a board game website would be more inclined to like heavy games.
Yeah. I love looking at the top 100 and never seeing most of those games at game nights.
@@EngMadison Patchwork again?
@@Neon_Gorilla it should have more family games and lighter games and gateway games
@@KidJV do you think there are a bunch of family/mid weight games that are “better” than the heavier games on the list? I suppose defining “better” is tough since the entire concept is subjective in the first place. It is an aggregate ranking of people’s opinions. Following the logic the question is why aren’t this big population of family mid weight game lover ranking games ? Interesting thought experiment.
The lower the BGG rank, the more hidden gem it become, like Pocket Master Builder
It’s a 6.6 though 😬
@@Neon_Gorilla the lower rank come from users who can't past the learning curve because of the rule book. When I teached it to someone, they always amazed at knowing this hidden gem existence.
I feel like reimplementations having a better score than the originals is mostly expected. Only people who played the first version and liked it would go and play to the new one. And after having played the first version of a game, getting a new version with a breath of fresh air will feel better than playing the older iteration, so people will likely rate it higher than the previous one.
If we only looks at scores this way, reimplemented games would always go higher than the original games, and would have an unfairly higher score (by having less low scores) than other games which never got reemplemented.
Bgg does account for this by making games with less votes rank lower.
While a revamped edition will get higher scores on average it will also get less scores.
For example look at dune:imperium vs dune:imperium:uprising
sounds like another good deep dive, "do reimplementations always have a higher rating?" as @jerelounia8993 BGG does account for this since they do not rank on average rating but using the bayesian average as described in the video. That makes it even more impressive when a game like Gaia Project out ranks Terra Mystica with half the number of ratings. The concentration of ratings near the top is impressive. I do wonder if the FOMO culture of boardgames that developed during the pandemic has this new crop of people in the hobby (I include myself in this group) simply rating things differently?
@@Neon_Gorilla Yeah I understand, I was just pointing out the fact that one of your criteria is looking for games with more 10/9 scores over 8/7, and that favours reemplementations because of the aformentioned reasons.
That's also an interesting question. People's standards change over time. The best game 20 years ago might be a miss if released nowadays. Games like Brass and Dune Imperium might fall out of favour 20 years from now. Does that mean that reviews from 5, 10, 20 years ago aren't as important as recent reviews? Should we have an "Average Game Score for the last 3 years" (or however long would feel fair), and would that be a better metric than the ones we have right now?
I believe you are correct that version updates have the potential to rate higher average because it is attempting to appeal to a familiar audience. However I disagree that it will always rate higher, but probably most of the time. It does still have to be better, and the rate of successful iterations would match designers ability to recognize the weak points, shortcomings, or community feedback of the prior edition which should be easy for any competent designer.
or we could weight recent score more heavily, when I say recent I would probably be a pretty long runway, but with all the advancements of games is the perspective of someone that rated it 5 years ago relevant to today? Not sure...a perfect world would have users revisit rankings every couple years or so.
I think Blood on the Clocktower is relatively easy to try before you buy. I played it in March at a convention. Here in Vancouver, BC there's a Blood on the Clocktower group. I imagine most cities of a decent size have their own group. If you're in a small town you may need to take a day trip. Personally I thought the game was just fine. The host was very good and the players were anywhere between beginners and intermediates. I didn't love it or hate it. I could see the potential for a lot of fun with the right group of people. I won't go out of my way to find another play.
Yeah I also wonder how the experience changes when you know the people and setting is right. I know Alex from boardgameco did a video about that aspect specifically with this game. Could also be a reason why there is such a disparity in ratings.
There's full discord groups dedicated to it and play games every night of the week. Great way to try it.
Imperium Horizons 9&10 ratios are nuts btw 65% are 9+
Thanks for reminding me I need to get that to the table. I read the rules and had the best intentions it just got shuffled back on the shelf. I wonder how that compares to legends and classics
@@Neon_Gorilla my favorite bot is the utopians from legends and my favorite civ are the greeks. The total package of Horizons is really strong overall though. If I would do a buyers recommendation it would be: Horizons and/or Classics and then Legends because Legends is for if you want civs that do things differently and you want to explore those mechanics.
@@Neon_Gorilla also might be worth doing a vid on since there isnt that much content on youtube for it. You might attract some new people to your channel
@@stormburns yeah that was my intention but felt like I may have missed the boat. At this point if I live it I will.
Did you play John Compagny solo ? I was wondering if it was a great game in solo. I know it already is by itself, but I can't find a solo review. Because, I will/would play John Compagny solo if I buy it.
I was not sure about GWT New Zealand. I own GWT, and maybe it's too much to have both of them.
I'm not surprise you take Void Fall in this list. It's another game I would love to own....
Ahhh! ISS Vanguard! I bought it but don't have it yet, maybe next year when the translation of every thing will be achieve.
I have a game I think it's a gemme : Fallen Land (39% of 10, 40% of 9!!!!). It's a new and a niche game.
I recommande it. It's not an heavy game, but very fun and so much immersive. However I don't think it will reach the top 100 of bgg. Hélas!
so John company is still on my shelf of shame, I really am excited to play it in a group but less solo which is why I have yet to find the motivation to get it to the table. I think New Zealand is not necessary but if GWT is in your top 10 definitely something to try. Your Fallen Land callout gives me another idea for a video. True hidden games that have relatively few ratings but high scores...that would definitely fit the bill.
I greatly enjoy the solo mode of JoCo. The Crown (your AI opponent) was designed by Richard Wilkins, aka Ricky Royal. He has a YT channel called Box of Delights if you are curious.
JoCo is a game of negotiation so it would seem this would not translate to solo well, but Ricky pulls it off. The Crown has a sliding scale of support for or against the Company and you can sway the Crown to act against its interests with favor tokens. It usually costs you more to get them than you gain by spending them so the timing must be right. You may also have to "work with" the Crown for a bit while you build your exit strategy after a betrayal. It is a tight game with tension that I found to be balanced quite well. I still lose more than I win. Part of JoCo is the narrative that unfolds, so if you don't like that aspect from the main game, solo probably won't fair better. The same can be said for the randomness present. One potential criticism is that you will always be consulting the Crown Handbook to see how it will behave on a given turn, and if that sort of every-turn referencing is unappealing, then take note.
@@Bob_Co would you say running the automa is hard or just time consuming?
Straightforward. Check status, do the thing. I'm not even sure I would go so far as to say tedious. I just know some people have an aversion to constantly referencing a rule book as it were. Thinking about it I have to chuckle and say that it is just simply procedural, which somewhat mimics the running of the company in the regular game.
@@Bob_Co thank you a lot.
I think the game is a jewel, and I wish to add it, even more now.
The original GWT is also the better game, don't get it twisted
Make your case
Is the (original) original better than the second edition?
Scarface 1920! Check this one out
Omg I have been trying to trade for this forever. I reached out to the publisher to no avail as well. This is constantly pulling at me to late pledge. The publisher said it won’t ever be in retail unless an flgs backed it so it likely would never gather enough rankings. Regardless is a price candidate for “best games that will never be in the top 100”. I need to play it first of course. Great suggestion though.
I think, these games will also join the top100 club by the time:
Carnegie
Wingspan Asia
Darwin's Journey
Nucleum
Wyrmspan
Harmonies
Dune: War for Arrakis
yeah I looked many of these and agree there is a shot, they did not have the top heave 9 and 10 rankings which will make it tougher to get over the hump, Wingspan Asia is certainly almost there at 116. There are more than one way to hit the average and that game has a bunch of 8 ratings.
hegemony?
What about it?
Pretty sure, out of the 42 other people, that I play with. I am the only person that has a BGG account and rates games.
Yeah i have been thinking about that lately. What type of bias that list has. For example I have been playing a bunch of trick taking games and it is hard to find them above an average rank of 7 and unless they are the crew will never make to the top 100. I am have a wonderful time with these games and it’s a shame many won’t ever see them. I do find it curious that nobody you know uses BGG, do you play heavy stuff?
I can definitely see age of innovation breaking in soon. Haven’t decided if I wanna get it and try it considering it is very similar to Gaia project & I think Gaia project has an expansion coming to crowdfunding sometime this year
Yeah Gaia is climbing my list every night I play more on BGA. I have a copy on the way if gamenerdz would ever ship. I really want my wife to like it but am afraid it might not click right away. I am curious on the dynamic of having more spaces clustered together and how that affects the play. I am also a complete sucked for dual layered. I can also do how decoupling the color and faction could be interesting. I am talking myself into it now the more I type. I can see a big 3 TM comparison video I’m my future. But then I might have to get the OG Terra mystica :(
@@Neon_Gorilla I agree that the color & faction combos that can be made is really interesting and one of the main reasons I am interested in getting it. That would be a great video but buying, exploring, and learning all 3 games sounds like a lot. I'm also not very interested in getting OG Terra Mystica because Age of Innovation is a similar theme but just seems the better game.
@@Triston_Yocom I might just play TM on BGG. I have asked capstone for review copies but they have ghosted me in the past so I will probably have to break down and buy AOI.
John company rulebook scared me away from buying it
I have cracked the book a couple times and never made it very far.
Life of the Amazonia
Meadow
I keep hearing about life of Amazonia. I think I need to play it.
@@Neon_Gorillait's bag building Cascadia with incredibly great production value. The game is good, but not top tier. The material is among the best in the market. Might fill a spot similar to wingspan with a much higher price and a bit more complexity
yeah I felt like production gimmicks might have made a good first impression but maybe a little shallow in the game aspect but I certainly would give it a try
@@Neon_Gorilla the game aspect is definitely there, bit of Altiplano mixed with Cascadia gameplay wise
👍
:)
You have too little subscribers and its blasphemy.
@@eddie788 I tend to agree but the people have spoken.
The algorithm finally brought me here and I’m never leaving!
@@seanmcgowan4842 Welcome Sean Glad to have you!
In my personal opinion I think Blood on the Clocktower cracks top 50 or top 40 eventually!!! (Or even farther when the expansion scripts are released!)
Interesting. It will all hang on gathering enough reviews.
What do you mean about expansion scripts getting released? There are a lot of custom scripts running around, some really refined ones and the players with hundreds of clocktower games played are playing weird stuff anyways. Some are more tested and some are less tested and new characters come out regularly, but should we call this an expansion?
@@Hoellenseher All of the custom scripts are phenomenal content! I agree. What I am referring to is the 3 official scripts that are coming to crowdfunding at some part in the undetermined future. “The Tomb”, “Garden of Sin”, “Midnight in the House of the Damned”, and then the collection of characters within “Greatest Show on Earth”. These have been officially announced for a while and most “experimental” unreleased characters will find a home on one of these scripts when they do eventually come out.
I think that when this game comes back to crowdfunding it will give it a decent boost in relevancy again, similarly to how other games that get expansions get thrust back into the limelight with their crowdfunding campaigns.
Called it before the Kickstarter- Carnegie
Still believe it’ll break into t100
Currently at 93
yeah It will pop in but it is heavily rated at 8 with significantly fewer in 9 and 10, It has quite the task to make it deep into the top 100
@@Neon_Gorilla unfortunately interactive euros like those never get the love they deserve. Look at hansa teutonica for example.
The only exception I can think of is the current bgg number 1
I like your thoughtful comments and take on things -after seeing 2 or 3 of your vids -but the distracting music is annoying. Please stop. Just stop.
lol
Blood on the Clocktower is so so so good if you love social deduction.
It is certainly in my list.