The best metaphor I can come up with for the heroic masculine vs the heroic feminine is that the heroic masculine is an Unstoppable Force, while the heroic feminine is an Immovable Object. All of the masculine heroic archetypes- the Wizard, the Knight, the Demigod, the Explorer, the Rogue- are Unstoppable Forces. All of the feminine heroic archetypes- the Maiden who refuses to buckle in the face of abuse, the Beauty who tames beasts, the Mother who stops at nothing to protect her children, the Fay Enchantress who guards something of great value- are all Immovable Objects.
The irony is that masculinity and femininity in relation are actually opposite of that. Masculinity is stable, grounded, determined, a bright light showing the way, like the sun which returns each day and has no phases. Femininity is like the moon: softer, changing cyclically every month, gets its light by reflection, orbits the sun and earth rather than being orbited, and is peripheral and not central. Masculinity is sharp, angular, straight, rigid. Femininity is soft, oblique, flowing, flexible. So i don't think your assertion is the whole story, namely that the heroic ideal is an inversion of the mundane. That can't be true. Instead i woukd suggest you consider that every heroic feminine ideal inherently concerns a woman serving in a supportive role, helping a man fulfill his mission. This is Biblical, woman was created for the man, as a helper. Man was given a mission independent of woman, and his objective does not revolve alone around her. Mans orientation is to the garden, woman's orientation os to the gardener. I think you are straining to say that women are immovable when manifesting heroism or being ideally feminine. Socrates was immovable in his apology. Athanasius contra mundum. Luther "here i stand, i can do no other." There's Jackson, standing like a stone wall. Etc. How about active women? Mulan, jean d'arc, pocahontas, etc, women who took initiative. I don't think immovable or unstoppable are the delineating differences, even when taking into account emphasis
If our response, (stated independently but with respect) strikes the desire to debate and have an endless cycle of back and forth, we propose a live stream discussion-debate-discord with thee and "Pilgrims Pass," that will be to the benefit of all parties and populaces. We respectfully disagree with the framing of the "Heroic Masculine" as the Unstoppable Force and the "Heroic Feminine" as the Immovable Object. These terms must be defined and categorically be made clear for there are numerous heroic feminine that fail and do not succeed, as it is similar to the masculine hero. For the masculine: King Arthur and Merlin are forces that are stopped physically and fade from the world, leaving the realm without a spiritual or temporal ruler. For the masculine: The original Little Mermaid tale, not only has the Little Mermaid (the Heroic Feminine) fail, but perish and dissolves into the waves. While your points a very well put, they are constrained to archetypes of fantasy only, vice mythology and various religious works. We shall propose vice the pagan only: maiden mother enchantress (vice maiden mother crone) a sacred construct: virgin - maiden / handmaiden (Joan of Arch Type) - mother/sagess. Peace be to you, and if you care for some reading, our first book in our Dor Vahdor Series has only Male Characters, if you ever read it, let us know your perspective, we'll do a live stream with you.
Eowyn fought out of love, not to stick it to men. She risked her life because she loved her uncle, her cousin, her brother, and her homeland. We saw that Eowyn was afraid when she fought the Witch King, but she still fought to protect her uncle. She knew she was hopelessly outmatched. She didn’t care because she was defending someone she loved.
She was also actively courting death because Wormtongue had spent years denigrating the value and nobility of her house. Her whole ambition for a glorious death in battle is portrayed as being symptomatic of her damaged mind and spirit. It is after she heals in mind, spirit, and body that she leaves the battlefield to men. She wanted to marry Aragorn because he would grant her the nobility she craved and believed her family lacked, though her lineage was as noble as any in Gondor as she was both princess of a realm and was related to the Prince of Dol Amroth on her Grandmother's side.
@user-dq6rp4sq1u Absolutely correct, which was what I had been attempting to communicate. Sadly, the word "death" was dropped from my statement, causing it to have a very different topic.
I feel like "love" is a bit low resolution in terms of Eowyns situation, as it's used way too casually to be able to refer to something as noble as what she did. She was conflicted throughout the movie about what she should do, and her decision to sneak into the troops wasn't a random impulse or simply due to love, but rather to commit herself wholly to her family and people, she knew that this battle will be for the end of the middle earth and that they needed everything that Rohan had to offer, hence it's love, but it's also desperation of a mother trying to protect what's dear to her (which is a deeper part of "motherly love"). And it's amazingly shown how Eowyn knew that she was out of her element (you could see the clear fear and unease) but the strength of her spirit allowed her to make a major difference in the conflict. I feel like she might've been given a power-up on how much she actually contributed against the killing of orcs and stuff, but she giving the last strike against the witch king was a great punctuation to the battle.
No wonder she ended up with Faramir who said, "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
this is why the Mulan remake made me so angry cause it takes a character who joins a war simply to save their father and through grit, wit, and determination she ends up saving the day, and turns them into this cheesy hollow action hero who is only able to fight the villain because she was born with magic rather then any personal quality
I agree completely, even as a young kid seeing Mulan going to fight out of love for her father despite the troubles and managing through hard work and a clever mind to be instrumental in saving china really spoke to me. The live action felt like it spit on all I loved about her. For a long time she was my favorite Disney "Princess"
I was thinking of Mulan this whole time. Everything about the animated Mulan is feminine strength. Driven by love and protection. She's even at her STRONGEST when she stops pretending to be a man and embraces herself as a woman.
Right! Mulan has always been a favorite of mine because she was actually relatable. She grew up soft and unsure of her self and found her worth through grit, determination, and hard work. It was a learning process that showed her growth as a character. In the new movie, Mulan was born gifted and showed no growth. There was no relatability and no change in character, something essential for a good story. I think the movie had a ton of potential, especially from a visual perspective, so I was honestly very disappointed when I saw an 8-year-old Mulan doing backflips and acting cocky.
Coming back to this, I also think Mulan discovers a DEEPER femininity. Her perception of what it means to be a woman early in the movie is completely based on presentation, by the end she understands her strength is in her mind and in her love and desire to care for her people.
Yeah! That scene where she climbs the pole to retrieve the arrow is so powerful, because she doesn't grow huge muscles to be able to complete the task; she uses her brain, to achieve what even the strongest men in her training unit couldn't through brute force.
What's the major difference between Eowyn and modern soulless cookiecutter girlbosses? Eowyn *fears.* She is visibly frightened and distraught when the Witch-King advances on her with a mace. And normally--without Merry's ambush, without the prophecy of the Witch-King being invulnerable to attacks from men--he would be an overwhelming foe. And yet she still fights him. Because otherwise her uncle would die.
And to be completely fair to Eowyn, that mace was huge. You'd have to be insane to not be scared of the guy one-handing a person-sized hunk of metal. Modern girlboss characters would probably make a joke about compensating for something rather than noticing just how much danger they are in.
@@hurinthalion5984 thats a common misunderstanding, the Witch-King was not invulnerable to attacks from men, nor did the elven dagger of Merry suddenly make him vunerable. There is no evidence or lore that points to it, its just a misinterpretation of Glorfindel's prophecy. The prophecy was that "not by the hand of man shall he fall", this didn't mean he was invulnerable to attacks from men, such power is not a thing in Tolkien's world. Even Morgoth, the ultimate evil EVER, wasn't invulnerable. What it meant is that Glorfindel foresaw that any man that would challenge him would end up defeated, and ultimately the "hand that would fall" the Witch King would be that of a woman. Its just a simple play with words, pretty normal "prophecy" stuff.
She also relied not on masculine traits like strength to succeed, but her ingenuity and cleverness, which isn't necessarily femine but certainly something that made her different from her peers both at home and on the battlefield.
I highly suggest watching Hua Mulan: Rise of a Warrior, a Chinese movie adaptation of their own icon. That movie focused more on filiel piety, sacrifice and love of one's nation. But also a warning: this movie is DARK literally and figuratively, it deals with so much death and gives us a more realistic take and thousand times better than Disney's own attempt of a "mature" version of the 1998 Mulan cartoon. What makes this movie more special to me than the cartoon (don't get me wrong, the cartoon is memorable and I still love it) is that despite the name of the movie and expecting it to be centered around Mulan, I personally think it's not at all centered around her but more on war itself, the nature of war and how it's devastating on both sides. Please give this movie a try. It's still available here in YT.
You saying "when the bigger Frenchmen saw this little woman be that brave, they were inspired and reminded of what they were fighting for," made me think of the line from her campaign in Age of Empires 2, "In olden times, men swore fealty only to their particular lord. Now we fight not for insolent lords and ladies, but for France. For all of us, Joan *is* France. There is no distinction in our minds."
Eowyn's arc in the books is so important to me. As a kid, I was a bit bummed that she 'settled', but as an adult, I understand that what she craved wasn't bloodshed, but self-fulfillment. For years, she put herself second, caring for her family who loved her in return. She didn't fight cause she liked it, she did it cause she couldn't stay behind. And even after everything was over, she was still depressed, because one victory doesn't magically solve everything (also, people rarely come back from the battlefield all happy and fixed). Her ending up in a loving marriage is a story of healing that makes a lot of sense, since she, to my understanding, rules Ithilien with her husband, which allows her to become the nurturing and caring leader she was meant to be. She's more relatable than a dozen of modern female heroines combined.
Yeah I never got why some people don't like that she settled down after the war. That's what Sam did. Isn't that what everyone was fighting for? Every soldier fights for the day when they no longer need to fight. Bilbo says it best, "It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life." It's a running theme through the story. That's why it ends with Sam and Rosie and their kids. That's the final victory of the story, not the destruction of the ring.
Honestly one thing that always baffled me about complaints of Eowyn settling down is the fact that getting a loving family and not having to fight constantly anymore is a happy ending. Everyone was happy when Steve Rogers finally settled down with the woman he loved in Endgame rather than just fighting all the time until he died.
The people that say Tolkien didn’t write strong female characters are either lying or have never read anything he wrote. In the first age Melian the Maia was a woman who’s power held Morgoth (a god) at bay. Her daughter Luthien put Morgoth (a god) to sleep with her power. Haleth became the leader of her house when all the men died and she was a warrior. Not to mention the wives of the elves that left Valinor deciding to stay in paradise. Not to mention Arwen, Eowyn, Galadriel, etc etc.
yes ! as a feminist I don't really care about how many woman(or man) are in a story, as long as they are really good written ! (I'm so sorry english is not my native language😭💀)
In the book, the reason why Eowyn is able to kill the Witch King is that, unlike everyone else, she does not scoff at Merry's need to join the battle, but has empathy for him and brings him along. The knife that he uses to hamstring the Witch King is one that Tom Bombadil gave him from the hoard of Barrow Wights. This blade was ensorcelled especially to kill the Witch King. Merry's hamstringing of the Witch King is what enables Eowyn to finish off killing him.
@idunbeezasmart1 Tolkien actually does spell it out and even foreshadows it. Frodo uses his blade against the Witch-King, and nearly hits him. Later Merry does the very thing that Frodo tried. Had Frodo hit him at Weathertop, it is possible that the Witch-King might have actually drowned in the river a few days later, which would have been an even more embarrassing end to the greatest threat of the Third Age.
@@michaelgrant6284 No, I know who Merry is, but since yours and the other guy's reading comprehension is sub-par, I will spell it out for you. The OP states that, in the book, Merry is given a blade that makes the Witch King killable. My point was, instead of using the opportunity for a Girl Boss moment, suggesting that the WK was killed by the power of ovaries, all they needed was to Chekov's Gun the knife at some point earlier in the trilogy and ditch the cringe "I'm no man" line. My reply was a parody of the infamous exchange from the Batwoman series on CW "The suit is literal perfection"/"It will be when it fits a woman."
"Men being put down doesn't mean women are being propped up--That's impossible. When one of them is struggling, odds are both of them are struggling." I've actually never heard it put like that but I like it. Think about the women in Mad Men treated like objects and slapped around, that's not great. Now think of the men in Mad Men . . . the person who's complacent with that and jealously clings to easy gratification, false authority, and public appearances . . . Is that someone you _really_ wanna trade places with?
Do you mean Mad Max? Those movies have a common theme of sacrifice. In all the movies Max is always the one to stay behind to ensure the survival of others He is a Decoy in Road Warrior to allow the settlers to flee He ensures a runway in Thunderdome so the kids are free And he blocks the canyon in Fury Road to ensure the escape of others
Or think of the1930s Germans. Sure, the authorities told them they were the master race, but how many ethnic Germans were brutalized along with the minorities? For example the invalids, the Christians (before the Pope made a deal), and just those who didnt approve of the insane asylum. When one of us is mistreated, anywhere, it means someone has the power to do so, and they will use it against us.
I am all for equality of the sex's, so that I can use those opportunity's to better my life, and the lives of others. What I don't want, or need, is the right to be equally as sleazy, vulgar, stupid, & disconnected as men are allowed to sometimes be in our society. That's a lose/ lose mentality where nobody really comes out ahead. Plus let us not forget, that there are men out there who don't give into those ridiculous gender stereotypes. They chose to elevate themselves abouve the common crowd, & so will I.
Eowyn practiced with her sword everyday and quite good at it. And yet when she joined the frontline she was quaking in her boots just like the rest of the soldiers and still get inspired by the king's speech. She was portrayed as a human, just one of the boys. Yeah, my mother really didn't like it whenever I said I wanted to join the military. This was way back in the 1990s when the legacy of communist insurgents, although thoroughly defeated, was still fresh in everyone's mind. Now, I'm just a teacher who plays shooter on the PC while my cousin earned numerous parachute badges and occasionally listened in on Thai army communications.
Eowyn actually fell in love with masculine men like Aragon. Arya only slept with the blacksmith not out of love but simply wanted “to know what it’s like,” in other words she wanted Lust.
LotR has it all: Lack of toxic masculinity, true loyalty, fear, the seduction of power, desperation, humanity and the most amazing (female) characters. Gosh, I love these books and films so much, I can’t even. They’re the best.
@@myvideosetc.8271 From what I understand, in the books the Witch-King recites the prophecy earlier in their confrontation, which causes Eowyn to take off her helmet and reveal that she's a woman much earlier as well. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him." Which actually causes the Witch-King to have a moment of doubt, because he always figured the prophecy referred to humanity in general, not men specifically. So to my knowledge she does in fact just stab him in the face the moment she gets an opening in the books. I have yet to read the books myself, but after learning of some of the differences I definitely want to.
I actually love that after the war, Eowyn fell in love, got married, and started a family. Politicians go to war over principles. Regular people like us fight so we can go home.
@@voltekthecyborg7898 War is simply politics by other means What people believe modern War to be is not actually what it is they do not look at the nuance and complexity of this situation and do not even understand the broad strokes
I remember reading the "i am no man," in the book. She is literally standing between the Witch King and says "i am no man, you look upon a woman," and the Witch King makes a shrieking sound. Like the dude was like well this wasn't what I was expecting and still goes all out. Hell, Merry (who also doesn't count as a man because he is a hobbit) stabbing him and giving Eowyn, who had a broken arm at this point, an opportunity to deal the death blow, doesn't take away from her victory.
I think the witch king actually fought harder because she was a woman. like why bother if its a guy, he cant harm you. but once its the thing that can actually do you in, hes fighting for his ghastly survival at that point.
@@KossolaxtheForesworn That's not the case at all. The prophecy isn't a magical protection, it's just a prediction that turned out to be true in an unexpected way. The Witch King never believed "I am vulnerable to female humans and non-humans". The Witch King was made vulnerable by being hit by the enchanted dagger from the barrow downs, which was made precisely to fight the Nazgul.
Spot on analysis!! Women have things to offer society as women. We don’t need to be men to have value. I loved the line that when one suffers, we all suffer.
Women and men should follow their own path with their goals, trying not to be a man or a woman but a better version of who they are, even if you like make up as a male, oe "masculine" things as a woman, it should be done out of pure love not because you are driven by spite
Eowyn's heroism only works because she is a woman, an exception to the rule. Because everyone intrinsically know that the vast, vast majority of women in war are victims, not participants. When a woman takes war into her own hands (as the men are expected to by default) then that is worthy of admiration not because of how strong women are but because of how weak they are, because to act with courage in spite of one's strength is the source of that heroism. It's the same principle behind why the hobbits are heroic, they are heroic because they are small, fragile, otherwise peaceful creatures that willingly take the responsibility of the world in their hands.
I feel that in and of itself is actually kinda a problem though. It's feeds into the double standard of women just getting pat on the back just for being women. Like those clips of the females in the military struggling to do boot camp and the drill instructor cheering them on and everyone motivating them. When you know damn well if it were a guy they would yelling at them. In the end this leads to inflated ego of the woman, just as we have seen in modern times. Likewise, it's unfair to the men to see a woman get treated like a hero for just doing the job, or realistically doing worse than a man. A man lifts 80 pounds and nobody says shit to him and it's a thankless job. A woman lifts 40 and everyone is praising her, that sort of example. They should just be kept out of where they don't belong. Just like with politics, they shouldn't be on the battlefield. It's not heroic, it's a disgrace to the men.
@@MALICEM12I agree, women should not be allowed in the military because real life isn't fantasy and real people's lives are at stake. You aren't making a military to maximize "bravery" or "heroism" anyways you are making it to win wars and to win a war you need the best soldiers possible.
@@MALICEM12 It's alright, you can rest easy knowing that if you as a man gave birth to a child, all the women in the world would be praising you too 😉
@@MALICEM12 I think you missed the point, or maybe you just don't agree with it. No one would bat an eye when a strong man easily lifts 80 pounds but they would cheer when a boy barely lifts 40. That's not because they think the boy is worth more than the man, it's because the boy is challenging his limits and accomplishing a feat that is difficult for him. To overcome great challenge, no matter how small or how easy others can handle it, is an experience truly remarkable. And to witness someone go through that experience is inspiring. It's why people naturally root for the underdog. It's why the stories of people like Desmond Doss, Jesse Owens, and Chris Gardner are so beloved. Their struggles were different, yes, their accomplishments were different, yes, and people could argue about their importance in history, yes. But what makes them all loved is their fight against the odds, against their personal problems, against their external issues, and against the worlds they lived in. Women like Jane Kendeigh, Harriet Beecher Stow, and Rosa parks also faced their own difficulties in the times they lived in and none of them did it because they thought they were better than those around them. They all fought for what they believed in despite the opposition they faced and they are heroes because of it.
The Eowyn Problem, as I call it in modern media, is that characters like Eowyn are paraded as symbols of powerful woman warrior whose going to show the boys how it's done, and completely ignoring g the rest of her character and story of how she got there. Eowyn was written as a character with her own goals and motivation rather than just a symbol of female empowerment through strength of arms. Which is why people also get th Shocked Pikachu Face when they read how her story ended with marrying Faramir and living a peaceful life as a healer. Besides Tolkien being all about fighting the good fight today to live in peace tomorrow, there is a huge amount of empowerment that comes in the House of Healing when Eowyn and Faramir are falling in love with each other, he asks her what's she wants. He is possibly the first and only person to ask her that instead of reminding her what her duty is. Eowyn gives vent to this before hand to Aragorn: "Too often have I heard of duty ... may I not spend my life as I will?" Wanting to live as you choose is a hot topic in media portrayals of strong women but becuase Eowyn decides she would rather live peacefully with a man who loves her for who she is; "even if you were the blissful queen of Gondor I would still love you" Faramir says to her, it doesn't count in the modern narrative becuase its seen as settling.
It's such a stupid thing to be annoyed about, too. The Dark Lord is defeated, the world is at peace! Why would she still be fighting, why would anyone? Sam got married and hung up his sword and started a family too, nobody's angry about him doing it.
It also works for Katniss Everdeen! Both of them, Katniss and Eowyn, were raised in situations when danger was around, they knew they should fight to keep their homes and families in peace and safety. Even in war they don't lose empathy for others, who are weaker than them, like Merry and Rue. In the end, when evil (President Snow and Sauron) is defeated, they finally can breathe out and have a normal life they should've had from the beginning. And that's why they choose Faramir and Peeta Mellark, because these men loved them as they were and were capable of healing all wounds war left on Eowyn and Katniss. After all, when a woman has to know how to defend herself and *fight* for simple recognition of her wishes and needs, it means the world let her down and is not safe anymore, which is actually The Tragedy.
@@hjt091Exactly! Stupid double standard. Sam is praised for marrying and having kids at the end, while Éowyn is condemned for doing the same thing, even though both endured incredible suffering and deserved some peace with the people they loved.
You're the first person who sees it for what it is. She loved her land, her people, her kingdom. She could not stand not fighting for it. Even after battle she struggled because she had no freedom in how she could move to help her people the best way possible. She was bound. Only after faramir asked her what she wanted, she realised he would give her space to be the queen that she could be. She never fought against men. She fought because she loved and cared. She fought so her people could marry and grow families, she fought for love.
I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TOLKEIN LOTR FUN FACt I USED TO LOVE THE LOTR MOVIES BUT MAINLY BECUASE OF THE SOUNDTRACK AND MUSIC THE STORY ESPECIALLY FEMALE CHARACTERS WERE STEREOTYPICALLY HOLY AND MONOTONOUS THEY WERE EXPECTED TO BE PERFECT AND NOT REALISTIC(THE WORLD IS NOT PURELY BASED ON GOOD VS EVIL ALWAYS OR EVEN PERFECT UNTOUCHED FEMALES) GOT actually in the later seasons and later part of the books showed the rise of women and had faith in rape victims like daenarys, spoilt disobediant daughters like sansa, unholy boyish ones like briene and Arya it showed that how realisitic animal societies can be like sexism and also how hopeful it can be like briene being the female knight and daenarys having control over kal drogo and bastard children like jon snow getting respect
It's funny, because the show literally goes out of its way to show how overpowered she is... yet then tries to compensate by having her lose in some real bs ways. Almost every aspect of Legend of Korra is handled pretty decently, except Korra herself. Asami is a great character. It's even funnier when you remember thatToph and Lin both exist within the show, the latter even being an important character, and they are just better versions of Korra's character.
@@lo4tr Its my belief that Korra is such a poor character that characters that get too close collapse into her mediocre black hole from which no quality writing can escape and become worse. Exhibit A, Mako and Bolin particularly Mako. Poor bastard...
@@mylesobrien7477 I entirely agree. I honestly think LoK could have been just as good, if not better, than AtLA... the thing holding it back is the main character. And I'm not even a big fan of Aang; I just don't think Aang makes his supporting cast worse the same way Korra does her own.
Korra was a genuinely awful person on top of that who routinely lied and manipulated those around her to sate her own desires even when she knew it would hurt them
Tolkien magically wove the archetypes of the Triple Goddess- Mother (Arwen) Maiden (Eowyn) Crone (Galadriel), into his works,, while he didn't have that many women in his tales the ones he did were always pinnacles of power in one way or another, from Liuthien to Ungoliant
Eowyn also did not chose battle because she wanted to be a warrior or a badass, but because she could not bare the thought of dying at home while everyone she cared about died in battle. She did not expect to win. Her character arc was about her turning from a doomer seeking glory in death into a healer desireing life.
I’m glad you mentioned Mrs Brisby. I personally believe she is one of even the best well written female characters in all fiction. The only other female character that I can think of that is close to that well written is Hana from Wolf Children. Her gentle nature and motherly struggles had me more invested and emotional in her journey than many modern female characters that are “fighting against the man”
I gasped in delight that you mentioned Mrs. Brisby and The Secret of NIMH! It’s such a criminally underrated movie, and I think she’s one of the most memorable female characters I’ve ever seen! Great reference. And great point in general! I’m a 24-year-old GenZ woman, and I hate all of these cookie-cutter “strong female“ characters - they’re just annoying toxic men with boobs. Our strength as women is in our gentle strength, our unbelievably huge capacity to nurture and love, and our ability to bring _new life_ into the world and protect it! And that’s not _wrong!_ and I’m sick of pop-culture trying to tell us it is.
With so many today seeing new life as a burden, instead of the incomprehensible joy and wonder that it is, I wish to merely say it warms my heart to see these words from a lady of our generation. Thank you, and may your road be blessed with many wonders :)
This is a very insightful video. One thing I would add: Men do seek to keep women away from war to try and keep them safe. In the case of Eowyn, however, she also had a job to do. In the absence of her uncle and brother, it was Eowyn’s duty to stay with her people and serve as their leader (Tolkien portrayed her a strong, competent female leader who didn’t need to act like a man). When she went riding into battle, Eowyn was deserting her post and disobeying the orders of her commander. Of course, Eowyn fulfilled a higher purpose with her actions, but it’s interesting to think of how her heroism as a soldier was a result of her behaving badly as a soldier, so to speak.
This was great! Thank you! When I was younger I was so fascinated by warrior maidens like Saint Jeanne d'Arc. I lost my love for them in recent years because of the fighting girl boss trope we are seeing everywhere now, but you managed to rekindle this by setting it in the right frame. I'm a mom and a housewife. I love my life, but you become very conscious of your weaknesses if you live so much in your feminity. It is good to be reminded that we women, we feminine women, are the ones to crush the snakes head, because they threaten our children. Not because of our own strength, but because of our trust in the Lord.
Exactly! The greatest triumph over evil of ALL TIME was foretold to be made possible by a woman. And how glorious it is that the 'weaker' (physically, mind you) entity is the one that defeats the seemingly impossibly powerful strength of evil.
Wow, well said. And it was the baby, born by a woman, whom the serpent saught to devour, but who instead crushed the serpent's head! As it is said "woman shall be saved through childbirth".
If it helps, Japanese media still portray Jeanne d'Arc as a girl when she's not fighting, an ordinary girl who can fall for a man, who has a strong protective sense and duty and faith, regardless of anything about gender.
trust in lord? According to the Bible, it’s women’s fault that we love on sun the way we do. Lmfao. Women were abused and ridiculed and made to think they were less than nothing. Read the Bible thoroughly for once in your life.
In the book Eowyn's line "I am not a man!" as she takes off her helmet, it's epic, because the reader (nor Merry) doesn't know who she is, as Tolkien describes her as "a sad young soldier." One of the things I love about The Lord of the Rings is that the physically weak characters, like Frodo, are the ones who really defeat evil. His true strength is his courage and his firm determination not to give up, no matter what. That's why I hate that everyone is a warrior now, whether they're men or women. Although in the case of women it is even sadder, because by using the warrior as an example of a hero, it becomes impossible for us to achieve and our true strength is erased.
In the book, her "I am no man" wasn't a post fight girl-boss moment but a pre-fight bandying of wits (like "McDuff was from his mother's womb untimely ripped!"). Also...she had no chance of defeating Witchking upon meeting him. It was Merry stabbing him with the enchanted Barrow Down knife that broke the enchantments that made him ethereal. Merry made him mortal and Eowyn delivered a desperate blow, which makes her all the more brave.
I have seen several people claiming that the sword of the Barrow-downs made the Witch-King "mortal" and I'm very curious to know where you saw that, because it's definitely not in the books... What the books say is that the sword "broke the spell that ties his unseen sinews to his will". That is quite a reach to assume this means making him mortal. Or is it more clearly explained in another book?
@@Angrenost02 I myself got it from *In Deep Geek's* _How Eowyn Killed the Witchking_ . It's quite possible he's wrong, but his lore knowledge seems accurate and since I haven't the wherewithal to be a loremaster, he seems like a good one to trust.
Comparing Eowyn and Arya illustrates something I thought about as a girl growing up reading fantasy. Even though early Arya more closely aligns to what I was, there was always something about the grace of characters like Eowyn that made them the end goal--the character arc should be something like an Arya growing into an Eowyn.
Did you know that J.R.R.Tolkien served in WWI for the British Military? That's actually what drove him to write The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and other works, as it was his way of alleviating his PTSD.
Éowyn is definetly a great te female character with a really good story arc. 💚 There is actually plenty of good female characters in the wider legendarium. What they are often doing to male & female characters nowadays is a shame. Btw, I love the channel, keep up the good work, man. 👍
This video made me realize, this is why they killed off Natasha Romanoff. Ok, this isn't about Eowen.. but this video made me think of this. She didn't fit their invincible, fully girlboss, anti mother archetype. Was she absolutely a badass? Yes. Did they try to turn her into a girl boss at the last minute? A bit yeah.. both before and after killing her. She was very powerful, very highly skilled. And technically can function on her own. However.. she did often need the help of her friends (the avengers) she couldn't get out of every sittuation by herself. She was strong, but also had times of weakness. Where she'd show herself to just be a human. Was was indeed motherly (which is a sin these days) even If she couldn't have children of her own. It means she took care of her family (the avengers) she was the mother figure when it was needed. Just like she loved Clint's kids. She wasn't invincible. She was taken down by characters who were stronger than her. She was tossed in a cell and needed her friends help to get out. Unlike some other girlboss marvel characters who don't need help, or a man. And who are the opposite of motherly. She always did things for those around her. Even If it was detrimental to herself. Is she skating the edge of girl boss and not? I'd say so, but that's why she has weaknesses. That's why she can't do everything by herself. That's why she's been hurt and shot multiple times. And goes down when it happens. She still cries, she has feelings. She never tries to boast about being stronger then the male avengers. Hell, she doesn't even attempt to lift Thor's hammer. Because she knows she's not worthy. And instead of giving her the nice life she deserved. She continues this stupid "the only way to redemption is death" ark have seen over and over again in thr last 6 years. She could have finally gotten to live her life. But they didn't allow her to. They killed basically the only female avenger. And completely destroyed the other kind of new bb female avenger. None of us are winning in this era. It sucks
Conspiracy theory: All of this is secretly for the sake on ensuring that the Green Goblin was never spewing bullshit whether he talks about heroes or villains. A dead hero or villain is what society will only love.
As a woman I can't thank you enough! I'm halfway your video but I can't hold myself from leaving a comment, thank you!! Thank you! Thank you! You translated how I feel about this issue perfectly! Keep in mind I consider myself a feminist, but I guess I'm a dying breed of feminist... You got yourself a subscriber!
Great points. One thing that irks me with current social climate is that with all the masculine women in media it downplays a lot of the traditional aspects of femininity. Compassion, wisdom, art and nurture/medicine. I think its the biggest folly that taking these aspects away from women is seen as empowerment, when in reality the world NEEDS those aspects. We need compassion, we need wisdom. By not showing those aspects in stories and media we are downplaying their importance. The irony being that it is a very patriarchal mentality to associate compassion, nurture and love with weakness. But what's true strength? Letting your blood run hot and be out for vengeance? Or do everything in your power to defeat an opponent out of love, Despite things being stacked against you? I'm not a superstitious person but I've always loved that in Tarot reading, the "Strength" card isn't some muscular man as we might expect. It's a woman calming a vicious lion. "True courage isn't knowing when to take a life, but when to spare one".
Another awesome video. I don't know if this was done on purpose, but there were more clips of Eowyn smiling lovingly in this video than all of the other female characters you mentioned smiling lovingly combined (that is to say, 0).
Feminists are almost like Anakin becoming a Sith Lord. In their pursuit to combat mysoginy, they became the very thing they swore to destroy, by making women just like men in the worst ways possible, and this irony will forever be lost in them. Also tangent, what a based mom you have. (Brazil mentioned!)
I will keep saying. Let it go from Frozen is the Sith code in song form. ("look up the song let it flow" if you want it spelled out for you). The Sith talk about freedom a lot. But they see everything as a power struggle and only be having power can they have freedom. The consequences to others doesn't matter to them. They make more sacrifices then the Jedi, but they choose what these sacrifices are. And it is always motivated by serving the self.
Bless your mother! I laughed so hard when you dropped that personal story. When I joined the Army my Mom said "Don't worry, if you die I'll make sure Pastor Mike does you right." Knowing full well im an Atheist. I'm thankful I had a mother, it could be worse, but you had a mother's love, outstanding.
Well, Game of Thrones is Grimdark, Lord of the Rings is Nobledark. You basically can’t expect any good moral lessons from Grimdark - only a cynical take on what the natural state of the world supposedly “is”, not any examples of how it “ought” to be. At its best, Grimdark contains convincing negative character arcs, like Greek tragedies, showing the natural consequences to unwise behaviour - where a lot of other stories that decide on a happy ending a-priori would shield their heroes from the negative consequences of their own actions with plot armour. When Game of Thrones did that, that was when it was at its strongest - like with the deaths of Ned Stark (his heroic flaw was being too naive / trusting), the Red Wedding (Rob Stark placed his own want for a genuine romantic relationship over the promise he had made to the Freys, and over what would have been the politically responsible move at the time), or also the Purple Wedding (even villains don’t have plot armour: When someone makes too many people mad at them, like Joffrey did, tyrants are going to reap what they sowed, too). The Purple Wedding to me was what distinguished Game of Thrones back in the day from mere cynicism: If the story had been purely cynical and pessimistic, Joffrey would have survived until the end - just like Sansa predicted when he survived his first battle. Realism, however, must contain the realisation that a lot of tyrants do eventually get their comeuppance - from the French Revolution to the Austrian painter to Stalin dying a miserable death, because all of his lackeys were too afraid to enter his bedroom. The question is how many people need to suffer and die first before the tyrant gets their natural comeuppance.
nah I have come to the conclusion that george rr martin is not actually a very good author, also hes pretty lazy. he tries so hard to stand up to tolkien but he is just not good enough and it eats him alive.
Our weakness is our strength. Being vulnerable, emotional hot messes in adolescence and learning to control this inner turmoil makes women great empaths capable of providing comfort in the most difficult times. Women are also able to be the most cruel if they never find inner peace. Its all potential, and people seem to forget when generalizing that we humans are dialectic depending on what we choose.
Her line about long ago learning that those who do not live by the sword can still die on them is a reflection of the strength survivors have known all down time. The line is eternal and the shield maiden of Rohan is perfect, both in the books and in the movies.
The problem is Hollywood thinks strength only means physical strength. Women are not normally as physically strong as men, but we're strong in other ways. Eowyn shows that. She shows her humanity in a way that we can connect to. The female heroes of the current films do not, so we can't connect with them.
Sir, thank you. I have never heard this particular take on femininity in my life. If I had grown up understanding this, I think I would have had a very different journey with my gender. I think many girls would have. Also, your humility and virtue really shone through as you discussed women. Considering how men are beaten down in our current culture, I always understand if they respond kind of negatively towards women when addressing what's going on. But your time on this topic was very respectful and hopeful, and it means alot. I've subscribed! Thank you. X)
As a recovering post-modernist and someone who STILL has a 'muscle mommy' kink, I say: Preach on, brother. Let not the selfish competition of 'anything you can do, I can do better' continue, but rather the mutual love of life and each others' virtues return in its full force and beauty.
I love this! I have been writing a fantasy story wherein the main character initially falls for a tough masculine woman only to realize he's actually put off by her drive for aggression in combat and contest. For story reasons he ends up in a nearby nation and meets another young woman, this one ready and willing to fight but traditionally feminine as well in her desire for a family and to nurture. She's a healer who took up the sword out of necessity, not out of a disposition for war. It's my own response to all the stories about girlbosses and the like that have made me sometimes give up on the idea of dating a good woman, at least until recently, but that's another story. Anyway, loved the video, and I'll keep it in mind for my own work!
I love how you hit it right on the nail when you mentioned we both lose unless we work together. I think that's been grossly underplayed almost everywhere in media today, as if pitting one against the other would do us any favors. Supporting each other is how we win at life, regardless of where this is.
This was fantastic and I couldn't agree more! I loved your Galadriel video as well! I would love to see a similar breakdown of Arwen. I'm a huge LOTR fan and just found your channel. I'll watch your other videos on the male characters now. It makes me happy to hear a man speaking highly of the inherent value of femininity. So much negativity from both sexes towards the other these days. I am raising two sons and it concerns me for thier future and the future of the West. Vive la difference!
it's a real shame you don't upload more videos more often it's criminal that you don't have more subscribers these are my favorite video of your Channel Why is Sci Fi so Religious? Star Trek vs Dune: When Optimism Clashes With Realism The Best Thing About Korra I hope you continue making great videos
Avatar: Distorted Reality tapas I had to do some really hard searching to find it but here is where you can find it if you want to read it have a great read
I absolutely love the story of your mother flying to Paris to get you disqualified from the Foreign Legion. That's totally something my mother would have done. I have a medical condition which doesn't curtail my life much but would make it impossible to fight in war (which greatly dissatisfied me as a teenager). My mother always says, 'The best thing about [the condition] is that I never had to worry he'd join the marines.' I definitely would have too.
I find it strangely comforting that there are many of us here. Watching LOTR. My mother also, from her deathbed, forbade me to go to a military academy.
I so agree with this idea that many heroic women are idolized simply because they embody a toxic masculinity. Alan Lee illustrated Eowyn as taller and more androgynous than Peter Jackson. Eowyn is both a warrior and a caretaker. Aragorn is a warrior and a king with healing hands. People are able to take the stand of a warrior and also practice the compassion of a healer no matter what their gender identity is.
Eowyn is the manifestation of the European warrior-woman archetype. In ancient Greece this was Athena, in the Norse this was Freyja and Valkyries, and the Celts had the Morrigan. All these Goddesses (although Valkyries which aren't deities) have in common aspects of war and victory, BUT, they are all also feminine and/or mothers. Tolkien was getting blood memory writing that character. It was his natural European instincts.
@@Hero_Of_Old Maybe initially, especially before Aragorn came in Rohan and when she almost died in battle. The way I see it (she had a happy life with Faramir in Ithilien with their son), she didn't end up a tragic character at all. Her story, to me, is a story full of hope and healing.
But all those stories are fiction. As interesting as the trope is, it seems to like any grounding in reality. Like taking Joan of Arc as an example. She certainly lead and exposed herself to danger, but she wasn't actually a warrior as the archetype shows. She likely never wielded a weapon in combat. We do have real stories like that of Lyudmila Pavlichenko, but they always read more like tragedies to me. I just don't understand what is to be aspired to in this archetype, seems more like a warning when seen in reality.
@@viperstriker4728 Yeah it doesn't exist IRL. They love to make out as if shield maidens were a big part of the viking age, they weren't, there are only two attested sources for "shield maidens" but many many attestations for men taking women aside before a fight.
A perfect way to start the morning sir. If I may suggest, I believe a video on Musashi by Eiji Yoshioka is something we all can agree is long awaited. Till then thank you for all your hard work.
That book is an excellent exploration of masculinity. Musashi learns how to act like a man in control of himself rather than an animal, while his best friend Matahachi repeatedly falls to his base urges because he never was willing to sacrifice his own desires.
I’d also like to hear more about Otsu. Her continued pursuit of Musashi seemed pointless and foolish to me. Kept reminding me of Sakura from Naruto and how she kept getting rejected by Sasuke.
Deborah Grayson from Invincible is another character that deserves accolades here. She has no superpowers, she never fires a gun, but her positive guidance as a mother contributes in a far more important way. When Mark is getting an ego trip in the first episode, it would be easy for Debbie to freak out at him, or call Nolan in to discipline him. Instead, she says only two seriously underrated lines: "Does that make you feel strong, knowing i can't physically make you do something? Is that what you need?" With those two lines, she immediately derails Mark off the path of becoming a bully. She doesn't swing a single fist during the fight in episode 8, but she was a major reason why Mark would still stand up to Omni-Man even with no chance of victory.
I was just thinking about Eowyn while listening to lotr audiobook. She wasn't trying to promote herself. Eowyn feared mediocrity and complacency. She wanted do fight for her people and do something honorable.💪 Telling a woman, "she should be like a man to be a strong woman", is sexist! Do not underestimate feminine power💖
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on Brienne of Tarth as well. I feel like even by the end of the show, she was a much better example of a feminine warrior than Arya.
HUGE shoutout to Malaika Writes, whose video exploring Eowyn's feminine journey and the feminine need to fight is one of the best analyses of Eowyn I've seen. That video unlocked the feminine journey for me and helped me see my own feminine journey much more clearly
The movie Eowyn was good but the book Eowyn is unparalleled as while so many of Theodens knights failed to master their horses and fear she stood there weeping for her uncle and king she stood against the witch king out of love not because the witch king was directly attacking her the witch king wanted Theoden and Eowyn refused to let him have it. Also Eomers reaction to his sister is more compelling in the books. He’s standing there holding back tears telling his men not to weep overmuch for Theoden and starts recounting the names of the fallen knights around him but when he sees Eowyn face he absolutely looses it. He mounts his horse swiftly and starts chanting “Death Death Death take us all! Ride! Ride for ruin and the world’s ending!!!” And the rest of the host goes ballistic too and starts recklessly charging the orcs and men heedless of the danger. It’s also a damn crime that prince imrahil wasn’t in the movies.
I respect a well done masculine female , something like Zarya from overwatch~ but I also like someone like Widowmaker who is the femme fatale or the kind nurse that is Mercy. Women have alot of different roles to be portrayed and besides the role their actresses can bring out a particular spin on it that is only iconic to them~ it makes me think of how Tony Stark was in the comics- he was and then how his image completely changed after Downey jr. spun him. He did such a job with the character that some people see him as THE de facto image of Iron Man as a conception. We need more female characters and actors that when you think of something you think of them like when I think about female clown i think immediately of Harley quinn and her phenomenal OG voice actor that just drew people in so much that she became canon to the DC universe. Now of course she like anyone need to have good writing behind them~ it's not just the actor or actresses fault-- it has to be a mesh of it all trying to convey positive and good messages without lecturing or virtue signaling a baseball bat over your hat for the 30th time like recent Disney movies have- there is nothing wrong with Girl power or go get em girls moment like charlies angels--- but when it just dominates every flavor till thats all you get is a bitter spiteful taste--- well people spit it out.
Eowyn charging into battle despite being just as afraid as everyone else and squaring up against the Witch King was absolutely badarse Tolkien made her a great character all on her own without needing to put other characters down to make her look better
I read a few days ago that Tolkien really hated the way Shakespeare fulfilled the Witches' prophecies in Macbeth. In Macbeth, the forest attacking the castle was just some guys with tree branch camo, and "no man of woman born" was just a guy who was born by C-section. As if that didn't count as a birth. So Tolkien had a forest of living trees actually attacking a tower, and a woman killed the Witch King. Also a hobbit, who isn't a (hu)man made it possible for the woman using a dagger forged by a long-dead man, thus not a living man.
Now I never thought of it that way, but that's actually a really good point. I assumed that the Warrior-Maiden trope was entirely modern and anti-tradition and here comes Tolkien to wreck my assertions.
I could be entirely talking out of my ass, but I feel like even the mythical portrayal of Valkyrie, the eponymous warrior maidens of Nordic folklore, would pretty heavily imply that it's not a modern trend. And there's also Athena, Hestia... in Greece, the Celtic (I think) Scathach...
When she says something along the lines of "Brave, Merry. Brave for those we love" it always brings tears to my eyes 🥹 She was so lovely like a mom to Merry. And so brave
I think of feminism as there being room for all kinds of women to exist and be powerful. Mothers like Molly Weasley who go full momma grizzly bear when the kids are in danger, Mulan (cartoon) and Eowyn as warrior maidens who return to more peaceful lives after the war, and Claire in Outlander who is educated and brave are not inherently better than female characters who embrace traditionally masculine forms of power. You have girlie girls like Rapunzel in Tangled, non traditional women like Brienne of Tarth, workaholics at the top of fashion like Miranda in the Devil Wears Prada, and none of them should be a cautionary tale. I feel like this video, which I generally liked, still assumes that women SHOULD be a certain way, and in that gender role is her power. I think when we let every human escape the strict social constructs of masculine and feminine, and just have personality traits, people will be happier.
There are objective ways to be a better man or woman. Social constructs exist for a reason, and that is guiding men and women to play to their strengths for the world to go round. Feminism and Marxism love to flip the table on all of that and assert that those things are nothing but the consequences of power imbalances throughout history, which is a deranged and anarchically cynical supposition. It's completely natural for people to generally like characters that fit the stereotypes of their respective places in society better than those who are trying hard to be something they're not. The politicization of these contrived archetypes don't help with their public reception either. Just as women have an innate proclivity to show disdain for unmasculine men, the vice versa is okay for men and tryhard boss girls. To conclude, people are free to present themselves whichever way they like, but they need to deal with the public perception that comes with it. You can't change what people have evolved to have a preference for through hundreds of thousand years of evolution.
@@alwaysright3943 I appreciate your calm discussion of your point of view, as that is rare as of late. I do, however, disagree with your premise that there are ways in which people should behave, or jobs and roles people should perform based on historical gender constructs. We are no longer hunter gatherers bound by any limitations of that age. I do believe that some people take feminism to a hurtful place, largely because hurt people hurt others and those who have been systemically denied agency may naturally lash out against the system. Let’s not forget that my grandmother’s generation could be fired from work if they became pregnant, and my mother’s generation was the first to not need a man’s signature to get a credit card; the pain there is still recent and raw for a lot of people. To me, feminism is just a belief that allowing all people to be their best, authentic selves who can aspire to be anything helps everyone, not just women. Feminism lets men be gentle stay at home dads as much as it allows women to be the primary earners in a highly educated career. It is not contradictory to follow more conventional paths within feminism, if that is your choice, so long as you do not force others into roles or behaviors they do not choose for themselves. America Ferrera’s speech near the end of Barbie briefly summarizes how the current social construct limits women, and I am certain that there is an equivalent version of that speech for men. It is the traditional social construct that holds humanity back from reaching its full potential, and I am in favor of all people having more freedom of choice in the social space. I also disagree that women disdain less masculine men, assuming that we are talking about masculine in a traditional sense. The studies generally conclude that, once women are ready to form long term partnerships or raise families, they typically choose a stable, supportive, and more caring man to the more physically masculine one they may have preferred earlier in their lives. Not that all women make that choice, of course, but the aggregate trends towards a reliable partner. Aragon here is a healthy example, and there is a great video on his version of masculinity that we typically don’t see in other male leads. He’s humble, kind, and emotionally expressive towards both men and women. I also enjoyed a deep dive on the masculinity of Newt Scamander in the Fantastic Beasts series.
@@erinperez6083 I have multiple issues with your response. "I do, however, disagree with your premise that there are ways in which people should behave, or jobs and roles people should perform based on historical gender constructs. We are no longer hunter gatherers bound by any limitations of that age." That's fine, but those roles are often the ones that people of each gender excel at. Men are still better than women at somethings and vice versa. It doesn't necessarily take the fear of dying to wild life for people to make choices that would optimize their chances of success. There is still plenty of competition among humans and the will to win is as strong as it was thousands of years ago. To your next point, I doubt any reasonable person would be opposed to the idea that everyone should have the same opportunity to strive to be great at what they want, that is without trying to over correct for each individual's privileges or misfortunes leading up to that point. No one should be discriminated against or pandered to based on their identity or life circumstances. "Feminism lets men be gentle stay at home dads as much as it allows women to be the primary earners in a highly educated career." That is cool in theory, but in practice men are terribly put down for staying at home, even though their work is just as crucial as being the breadwinner, if not more so. "America Ferrera’s speech near the end of Barbie briefly summarizes how the current social construct limits women" I haven't watched that movie, but I struggle to see how women are limited in ANY WAY in modern Western society. That just sounds like women blaming the good old bogeyman "Patriarchy" for their underachievement despite almost every aspect of society being catered to them specifically. "I am in favor of all people having more freedom of choice in the social space." Freedom of choice does not include freedom to decide public thought. That's just not how human beings work. Judging others is as natural to us as speaking and thinking. "I also disagree that women disdain less masculine men, assuming that we are talking about masculine in a traditional sense. The studies generally conclude that, once women are ready to form long term partnerships or raise families, they typically choose a stable, supportive, and more caring man to the more physically masculine one they may have preferred earlier in their lives." So for being in touch with their feminine side men get rewarded with... more masculine men's leftovers? That doesn't sound like such an appealing arrangement to me. I'd personally much rather get a woman in her prime without the financial and emotional obligations of marriage than be settled for by a woman who's past hers and is only with me because she lost the competition for the masculine man to younger women. Other men could think differently though. "Aragon here is a healthy example" I'm sorry but women don't get to decide whatever makes their lives easier to be conveniently "healthy". Masculinity isn't innately negative or positive, it's the context that decides it's usefulness. You can't pick and choose what aspects of it are valid based on what benefits you the most. Oh, and "emotionally expressive" really isn't what I'd call a masculine trait lol.
@@alwaysright3943 Just be a being with divine delusions and a real life God Killer Vegito aka a cautionary tale will ultimately exist and many uninvolved poor souls will die miserably. Hate to tell you but social constructs have all the right to be deconstructed because what you say is what motivaded the God Killer to be what he is
Lotr was basically injected directly into my veins growing up and i always connected to eowyn as a character, however it did bother me that her 'happy ending' was to marry Faramir and leave her beloved kingdom to live in Ithilien. I also never saw her love for Aragon as a necessarily romantic love, but more so jealousy and desire for the close companionship he had with the rest of the fellowship. She was very lonely before the war because no one really understood her--Theoden was mentally removed and her brother and everyone else saw her as either an object of desire (wormtounge) or a delicate symbolic flower of Rohan, to be protected and revered but never known intimately. Aragon was the first person to be willing to see her for who she was and she desperately wanted to join his company (ex into the paths of the dead in the books) because she saw the mutual love and respect aragon and his friends had for each other and she wanted to be known and loved similarly and also fight alongside and protect those she loved
The recent anime "Sacrificial Princess and the King of beasts" is also a great example of a very feminine and strong female protagonist who fully embraces her femininity and reaches power through it. The story itself Is about how masculinity and femininity should complement each other in order to build a successful civilization. I prefer the manga through since the anime Is a rushed adaptation.
Interesting, especially given how hyper reality and subverted anime has become. With so many masculine powerful women dominating and emasculating men. And don't even get me started on works like Black Lagoon
@@YVJ1R0 it's very much and very clearly fem Dom fetish material and insulting to any self respecting man I would say. Not to mention given how wide spread such stories have become since then. Not to mention it sexualizes terrible criminal women. And just the whole show is very biased. On a technical level the animation is good quality, but the content is edgy filth.
@@YVJ1R0 I don't recall their "romance" or if there even if one. But by femdom I don't mean dating I mean the entire show in a nutshell. It's very much a "sexy badass one women armies killing tons of guys while wearing fetish clothes" type anime. There's a nun, a maid, a girl in a Chinese dress, and of course revy is always half naked. And of course she's always threatening to cut men's balls off so....yeah, that's what I meant. I don't recount how her and Rock actually end up. But yeah you aren't missing anything other than really smooth gun animation. But you can see that in lots of older anime. If you haven't watched Ghost in the Shell yet I highly recommend it.
This is something Tiny Little Me didn't understand when I first watched Lord of the Rings. I was like "why didn't Eowyn stay a warrior? She's so cool!!" Because I related to her struggles. But on rewatches as I've grown, I've come to understand and relate to her even more. I hate the whole erasure and negativity that feminine roles get in modern stories, implying that those roles aren't worth anything compared to the masculine roles. Like, excuse me, without feminine roles y'all ain't getting clothes, food, healing, or true safety. Support classes are worth just as much as DPS or Tanks. There may not be Fame attached to those roles, but that's more a failure of history and record keeping than the importance of those roles.
Like Tolkien’s LoTR, Frank Herbert’s ‘Dune’ is another timeless epic with well written female characters. Lady Jessica is feminine, gentle and nurturing; Frequently displaying both love and fear; humility and honor.. All throughout the book she loyally defers to the command of her husband and son. Yet, she is absolutely deadly. One of the wisest and most powerful characters in the story, without question
Eowyn is one of the only feminine fighter-type character that is sympathetic to me because the author kept her feminine : empathic, nice, airy, a "round", a bit naive and idealistic personality, a little wild. Which is feminine, and her reasons to go fighting are understandable as feminine. She has intuition and goes against the overly intellectual way men act. She just knows what is to be done, which is what women are usually good at, going straight at what is essential, prioritizing and not bothering with abstractions, prejudices, theories ... She goes towards life, even when going to battle. She is feminine in the sense that she is never shown to have a deathwish, even when she puts her life in danger. She just recognize the necessity of risk in order to survive.
Best thing I've ever seen bro. Thank you for this. My thesis was about lotr and yet I've never looked at Eowen from this perspective, definitely subscribing plz keep these coming ❤❤
Eowyn is goated and what sucks is that people will ignore her motivations and actual character arch she fights for what she loves and because she despaired in life so strove with the greats to live in song she survives and learns that true happiness does not lie in glorious death on the battlefield and to love someone who loves her. I also dislike what people will say about the people who tell her to not go to the battlefield. Think about it would you want the person who you love most to go to the battlefield where you believe that you will die on?
Here are my two cents on this and why I love Eowyn so much as a Christian. Eowyn's (masculine) obsession with power and fighting and immortality from her deeds as a warrior is a function of the pre-Christian pagan warrior ethos Rohan represents. The problem with that ethos that Tolkien is commenting on is how selfish that desire can be, which Eowyn realizes by fighting for love (to save her uncle King Theoden from the Witch King), something she could only do by abdicating her responsibility and fighing at the Pellenor Fields (which was selfish and pagan of her and done for the reasons mentioned above). Knowing that, I think Eowyn is a brilliant critique of the strong female character in general and just how vapid and piteous the desire to be a "strong female character" (just for the sake of it and not for virtue) can be. And this extends to men as well, I suppose.
I am reminded of the show Vinland Sega. "A true warrior does not need a sword." The show takes place in the time of the Christianization of the Vikings and this pagan vs Christian world view shows in exactly as you described with Eowyn. I have come to the conclusion that the "strong female character" is girls taking on masculine pride. And pride leads to destruction, regardless of which gender takes it on. It's actually really sad.
Maybe this is the difference of perception, but Eowyn does seeking glory from battle, she said it quite number of times, I think. And her love for Aragorn is like an admiration from a soldier to their great captain, because of the glory he's able to achieve.
about 2 weeks ago my mental health was really messed up. i drove in the night and had to fight with me to not let the steering wheel go at 120kmh. i drove home and went to sleep. the next moring my mom was at my door. she visits me rarely and normaly tells me a few days bevore that she will visit. this time she just came without any warning at told me that she couldnt sleep all night. something tells her that im in trouble and in need of help. first i didnt want to tell her because i dont wanna make her sad or dissapointed but after some minuts i told her how im feeling. we sat down nearly the whole day and she told me stories she never told me bevore and reminded me that ending it meself is no option. one story she told me was about one of her best friends. he was very supportive while she was pregnant with me. he had an accident with his motorcycle a few days and died and im named after him. it really helped me and i feel way better now. what i wanna say with that is that mothers have some insane powers and are the most powerfull humans on this planet. Edit: i have seen the films sure more then 50 times by now but even without the sound seeing her crying cause theoden died and eomer crying because he thinks that eowyn is dead makes me tear up. great work by the actors!
Nice to finally now be able to properly speak to you very clearly now, Pilgrims Pass, I can completely see that you love creating video essays on the important lessons we can learn from movie characters such as masculinity, femininity and modernity, and because of that I'm going to cut straight to the chase and explain what ideas I have specifically for you to read now. I have this idea or these ideas where you and a bunch of other youtubers who are massive fans of The Lord of the Rings film trilogy should all come together with the entire cast and crew of Sir Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film trilogy (2001-03), and when I mean the entire cast and crew I am not kidding or telling a joke, I'm actually being very serious. The director, the directors of photography, the producers, the executive producers, the cinematographers, the film composer, the actors (including some of the actors behind the scenes such as Sir Christopher Lee, Sir Ian Holm and the other actors that are now dead, and this doesn't involve the famous actor Sir Ian McKellen), the script supervisors, the writers, the editors, the stunt supervisors, the food supervisors, the makeup artists, the production designers, the people who were involved with the songs In Dreams and May it Be, by Enya , Gollum's Song, by Emilíana Torrini, and Into the West, by Annie Lennox, the people who created the weapons, prosthetics, miniatures (or the Big-atures) and so much more. What I am wanting to happen with you, the other youtubers, and the cast and crew that was involved with Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film trilogy is for all of you to sit down in one of those stylish meeting rooms, and discuss all together why The Lord of the Rings is the Best Trilogy Of All Time and nothing will ever come close to it not even Harry Potter, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, Game of Thrones, House of a Dragon, The Witcher, The Chronicles of Narnia, John Wick, Marvel, DC, The Matrix, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones, The Mummy, Jumanji, James Bond, The Godfather, Godzilla, King Kong and Amazon's The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. I know you kind of did this with Pax Tube already, and are still doing the masculinity and femininity video essays on every LOTR character, but trust me, this is only a once in a lifetime opportunity. There I then thought that you guys can discuss all of your opinions on the J. R. R. Tolkien books, and the Peter Jackson movies, talk about the advantages and disadvantages that they have over and below each other, read all the books fully and analyze them and why they work so well, watch the theatrical and extended editions of the whole movies and analyze them and why they are perfect adaptations, explain the very few references and similarities that they have to The Holy Bible itself (such as the three Christ figures Aragorn, Frodo, and Gandalf) and probably the film versions of it, Tolkien's war experiences during the Battle of the Somme in the trenches during The Great War that actually changed the course of history, his catholic and religious beliefs, and why nothing in general will ever come close the story in general. You and the other youtubers should also do this thing where you should also analyze all three parts of the story (Part One: The Fellowship of the Ring, Part Two: The Two Towers, and Part Three: The Return of the King) but after each part is over you will all take breaks and vote which youtuber should have a one on one interview with which member of the cast and crew of the trilogy, and then you will all go in separate rooms with a different cast and crew member, plan out what questions you all should ask, change cast and crew members with each break along with different questions, increase the lengths just like the increase in all three parts of The Lord of the Rings, and then when each break is over then talk about what answers that you all got for the interviews. Some of the many youtubers that I thought of inviting to this should be @NerdoftheRings, @thefriendshiponion6189, @Jess_of_the_Shire, @TheBrokenSword, @kingdomsofarda1717, @TolkienLorePodcast, @tolkienuntangled, @LoreOfTheRingsYT, @VoiceoftheRings, @TalesoftheRings, @CounciloftheRings, @TheoryoftheRings, @TolkienTree, @TheRedBook @MiddleEarthTheory, @lfwinesroad3399, @geekuniverse6172, @heartofahafling3142, @MemoryTroll, @timbotook6447, @ArachirGaludirithon, @TheTabletopAlliance, @TheOneRingNet, @VoiceofGeekdom, @ThePhilosophersGames, @TolkienTube, @EverythingInMiddleEarth, @BeginningofDays, @GeekZoneMT, @Epic_Kingdom, @MiniExpBounder, @InDeepGeek, @DarthGandalfYT, @MiddleEarthLore, @MacbethofGondor and so much more, you should also do this with many other youtubers who don't talk about The Lord of the Rings, but do mention that they are fans of it or at least talk about it such as @ColbertLateShow, @PaxTubeChannel, @RewiretheWest, @NerdCookies, @HelloFutureMe, @WriterBrandonMcNulty, @flickfanatics7948, @thecluelessfangirl809, @LikeStoriesofOld, @HelloMellowXVI, @PopcornInBed, @JonnyLawYT, @DorkLords, @thegoldman25 and @jedibrooks7235 for example (but not the ones that mention LOTR once and then focus on another film or novel franchise such as @KlaytonFioriti, or @AGamingBeaver), and you should all talk about your different ways on how you would all view this as being a masterpiece. By The Way, you should also share this with many of the other youtubers who love Middle-earth in general and should plan with them on how you could improve on this comment such as inviting so much more youtubers who also love it a lot, and that I didn't add on this comment earlier on, discussing this with Peter Jackson and the Tolkien family and their views on them since they aren't the very best of friends (and that fact that Christopher Tolkien, and Simon Tolkien didn't appreciate it), and should also do the same thing with Peter Jackson's The Hobbit film trilogy (2012-14) and doing the same thing that I explained earlier with LOTR, such as also discussing about the score, and the songs such as The Song of the Lonely Mountain (Extended Version) , by Neil Finn, I See Fire, by Ed Sheeran, and The Last Goodbye, by Billy Boyd, (and also discussing again what it was like for some of the cast members that are dead now such as Barry Humphries who played as the Great Goblin and again this does not involve Ian McKellen since he is again not dead yet) but also to mostly discuss why they weren't very good adaptations of the novel. Good luck out there @PilgrimsPass and please share, and improve on this with the other youtubers, and the entire cast and crew of The J. R. R. Tolkien trilogy and The Peter Jackson trilogy. The real reason for this also is to basically change many different peoples' opinions and views on this amazing work of literature especially since it's the 20th Anniversary of these films, because not all Christians view it as a masterpiece, because I am a huge fan of LOTR too, but also because I'm also one who is a Christian believer, and I have witnessed other Christians not viewing it as a masterpiece that tells the story of good vs evil, since it shown as something completely underrated since people on the internet want a lot of realism, when in reality it actually invented the high fantasy genre, defined the fantasy genre, and it even made John Ronald Reuel Tolkien himself become what he is now known as the godfather or the father of modern fantasy that is of course now shown in both the 20th Century with his own books, and the 21st Century with the Peter Jackson adaptations. But also because the movies in my opinion destroy the stuff that Hollywood mainly shows in their films specifically the modern movies that are made today, even if these films are maybe sometimes considered to be not as good as their original work by Tolkien (especially involving around Peter Jackson's The Hobbit trilogy), or if they are even usually considered to be amazingly Massive Hollywood, Blockbuster, Action & adventure movies, and also have really epic and really well crafted moments in them such as the large and huge amount of set pieces, the brilliant use practical effects, the incredible and awesome use computer generated effects when it was something made 20 years ago as well, large-scale warfare, six genres which is just everything that is ever put on the film director's bucket list in three movies such as action, adventure, romance, comedy, and horror that was just managed to be put altogether in a whole and a massive high fantasy setting, and amazing character moments and awesome moments of really well-crafted character development in each of those three films as well.
I’m a woman and a Feminist but I never feel empowered by characters like Captain Marvel. I love 90’s Mulan because it was realistic that she wasn’t as physically strong as her male counterparts but she was cunning and resourceful and determined. Those are just great traits in a warrior regardless of gender. And I was empowered by Eowyn because she was realistically afraid in battle but she charged forward anyway, and she protected Theoden despite her fear. She didn’t have an absence of fear! Thank you for honoring brave, sweet Eowyn! I’m glad you can acknowledge that women can be great warrior characters. I don’t feel that my motivations need to always be feminine as I do pursue personal greatness out of pride but I also love protecting my friends, loved ones, and clients. I have to disagree with you about Arya, though. I never had a problem with her. She was clearly dedicated to the craft of sword fighting and Game of Thrones showed her struggles and perseverance with it. She was far from a Mary Sue. Not every female character or even real woman has to want to be a wife and mother. I’m happily married but reluctant to have children because they would interfere with my career. I’d love to hear your thoughts on my queen, Danaerys. I think she always looked pretty and loved fashion but also kicked serious ass and wanted to amass power. I don’t personally see anything wrong with that. Yet it was believable that her strength largely came from her dragons because she was a woman and was physically weaker than her male adversaries. And yeah I didn’t like ROP Galadriel either. I LOVE Cate Blanchett’s Galadriel.
Although I can appreciate these in fiction. Particularly Mulan is one of my favorite characters. I do think it is worth mentioning that these have no grounding in reality. Joan of Arc was awesome and a great leader, but as far as I know she never actually wielded a weapon against an enemy. I mention this because the pride you spoke of is being carried onto real world battlefields. And pride leads to destruction. Ask a real soldier in the US about their thoughts on Jessica Lynch. Sometimes we forget that war is not a game. And that we are not action heroes. But the biggest think I take issue with here is to pursue personal greatness. To me that is a complete reversal of the self-sacrifice of real warriors. Mulan was a real warrior, she didn't do it for pride or greatness.
Arya is young and doesn't want to be like her sister, she's rebelling against the expectations put upon her. It's fairly common for young tomboys to grow into their femininity as they mature. I certainly didn't like being associated with anything overtly 'girly' when I was young.
I take nothing you said seriously because any argument you made is automatically canceled out by your claim to be in the cauldron brewing Cliterati sisterhood of socialism. So you want to have your cake and eat it too. You and your social economic cultural legal personal and political beliefs and power fostered and facilitated the destruction of humanity, but YOU get to be offended by what you voted for condoned and participated in, WITHOUT having to change or renounce your part in any of it?! You are the heart of the problem you're complaining about! Sincerely your worst and mutually hateful enemy: the straight white Christian man.
@@TPFB129 I can't blame you for reacting that way. But remember when Jesus was dying on the cross and said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." He told us to pick up our cross and follow him. Imitate Jesus and trust in God, and he will have your back through the culture war.
I want to add to the list of good strong female characters, Juliet O'Hara from Psych. She's tough, smart, competent, a good detective, but she's also gentle, supportive, caring, fully embraces her femininity, and never tries to show up her male colleagues. She's never portrayed as having to work harder the be on par with her male colleagues or superior, like Lassiter, instead she just does her job and does it well like any good cop. The only time I can think where they are competing, it's mostly done as a joke, because Juliet got a higher score on the Detectives exams then Lassiter, and he just can't let it go. Part of Lassiter's character is he's a workaholic, and he's very prideful at being the absolute best detective, and he just can't let it go that anyone, not even Juliet, his partner and someone he respects so highly, did better then him. And it's made even funnier when later it turns out that Shawn, who is a complete goof man-child who never takes things serious, actually got a perfect score on the Detectives exam when he was just a teenager. And it also helps that Lassiter and Shawn and Gus never think little of her, they know she's capable on her own, and all have the highest respect for her. They're a team and they compliment each other. That's something that many of these writers forget, men and women are meant to compliment each other and support each other. Not compete with each other.
As lady, I really dig the narrative takeaway. It’s not about trying to prove yourself, it’s about fighting for who you love. No woman should try and HAVE to prove something about their womanhood. Just be kind and just be. Like any good human. And I’m glad others agree that being a mother or loving a man, isn’t gonna make you bad. Hating everyone and making a point of “all men bad” is bad.
I think femininity doesn't have one single form of expression, and it looks different on every woman. I would love to see every different type of woman be portrayed. Of course, not as an empty stereotype but as fully fleshed characters with depth to them.
Beautiful, compassionate, loyal and brave. Eowyn is a REAL strong female character, not an overpowered, unlikable barely feminine asshole putting down every man around her.
Eowyn’s motivation to fight was to defend her country and her people. She had no ulterior motive like sticking it to the man and showing the men around her that she’s better than them. She was scared of war but she went to Minas Tirith nonetheless. To this day, when she kills the Witch King, burly bearded muscle bound men cheer for her. No modern Hollywood girl boss will elicit such a response from men. Eowyn shows fear and immense bravery in the face of that fear. That’s what makes her such a strong female character.
Honostly something that sets eowyn apart from modern “strong women” is that she is visibly frightened before the charge into Pellinor fields and when she confronts the witch king
It's so great to hear you say so many of the things I think about on my own, for example the idea the portraying strong women as physically stronger than men is actually patriarchal because it implies that male traits are superior to female traits.
I would love it if you can do a video where you give your take on the modern phenomenon of films and shows (or even video games) celebrating or glorifying traditionally evil or "bad" characters. I am really curious of the history behind it, why studios make them, and the potential long-term consequence of this practice. I recently had a massive argument with a friend of mine about how the GTA franchise glorifies people doing bad things. And I have a massive gripe against lots of American musicians glorifying their lifestyles in the hood.
The romanticism of villains as well. There's this quote circulating online that says something like a hero will sacrifice you over the world but the villain will sacrifice the world for
Not everything has to be boring 😂 people can separate fiction from reality. Not everyone wants to play a game where they’re the hero or the good guy all the time. Not to mention, come on be for real, a lot of us relate more to the villains than the hero’s.
@@Las645 Then explain to me why animes like Haikyuu dramatically increased the number of volleyball players in Japan. If people can tell the difference between fiction and reality, then nobody should be inspired by Haikyuu since nothing in there is real.
People forgot that being feminine doesn’t mean you can’t be fit and athletic… it doesn’t mean you can’t fight and/or win a fight… it doesn’t mean submission to any male. You can do all those things and still be feminine. It’s not how you look and what you do… it’s how you act and carry yourself.
The funny thing about Galadriel and Elrond in the books is that Elrond is a recognized warrior who chooses to be diplomatic and a healer after seeing the horrors of war, and Galadriel is someone who may have the training (1st age elves were more of a warrior race than anything), but chooses to not pick up a weapon, and keep to diplomacy and guiding others.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The best metaphor I can come up with for the heroic masculine vs the heroic feminine is that the heroic masculine is an Unstoppable Force, while the heroic feminine is an Immovable Object.
All of the masculine heroic archetypes- the Wizard, the Knight, the Demigod, the Explorer, the Rogue- are Unstoppable Forces.
All of the feminine heroic archetypes- the Maiden who refuses to buckle in the face of abuse, the Beauty who tames beasts, the Mother who stops at nothing to protect her children, the Fay Enchantress who guards something of great value- are all Immovable Objects.
The irony is that masculinity and femininity in relation are actually opposite of that. Masculinity is stable, grounded, determined, a bright light showing the way, like the sun which returns each day and has no phases. Femininity is like the moon: softer, changing cyclically every month, gets its light by reflection, orbits the sun and earth rather than being orbited, and is peripheral and not central. Masculinity is sharp, angular, straight, rigid. Femininity is soft, oblique, flowing, flexible. So i don't think your assertion is the whole story, namely that the heroic ideal is an inversion of the mundane. That can't be true. Instead i woukd suggest you consider that every heroic feminine ideal inherently concerns a woman serving in a supportive role, helping a man fulfill his mission. This is Biblical, woman was created for the man, as a helper. Man was given a mission independent of woman, and his objective does not revolve alone around her. Mans orientation is to the garden, woman's orientation os to the gardener.
I think you are straining to say that women are immovable when manifesting heroism or being ideally feminine. Socrates was immovable in his apology. Athanasius contra mundum. Luther "here i stand, i can do no other." There's Jackson, standing like a stone wall. Etc. How about active women? Mulan, jean d'arc, pocahontas, etc, women who took initiative. I don't think immovable or unstoppable are the delineating differences, even when taking into account emphasis
I would grant that your division is one aspect of the sexes in relation to each other romantically. See Song of Songs' final chapter
I know what you said was a very profound observation, but instead I thought of so many innuendos...
If our response, (stated independently but with respect) strikes the desire to debate and have an endless cycle of back and forth, we propose a live stream discussion-debate-discord with thee and "Pilgrims Pass," that will be to the benefit of all parties and populaces. We respectfully disagree with the framing of the "Heroic Masculine" as the Unstoppable Force and the "Heroic Feminine" as the Immovable Object. These terms must be defined and categorically be made clear for there are numerous heroic feminine that fail and do not succeed, as it is similar to the masculine hero. For the masculine: King Arthur and Merlin are forces that are stopped physically and fade from the world, leaving the realm without a spiritual or temporal ruler. For the masculine: The original Little Mermaid tale, not only has the Little Mermaid (the Heroic Feminine) fail, but perish and dissolves into the waves. While your points a very well put, they are constrained to archetypes of fantasy only, vice mythology and various religious works. We shall propose vice the pagan only: maiden mother enchantress (vice maiden mother crone) a sacred construct: virgin - maiden / handmaiden (Joan of Arch Type) - mother/sagess. Peace be to you, and if you care for some reading, our first book in our Dor Vahdor Series has only Male Characters, if you ever read it, let us know your perspective, we'll do a live stream with you.
That is very deep and beautiful. I love it.
Eowyn fought out of love, not to stick it to men. She risked her life because she loved her uncle, her cousin, her brother, and her homeland. We saw that Eowyn was afraid when she fought the Witch King, but she still fought to protect her uncle. She knew she was hopelessly outmatched. She didn’t care because she was defending someone she loved.
She was also actively courting death because Wormtongue had spent years denigrating the value and nobility of her house. Her whole ambition for a glorious death in battle is portrayed as being symptomatic of her damaged mind and spirit. It is after she heals in mind, spirit, and body that she leaves the battlefield to men. She wanted to marry Aragorn because he would grant her the nobility she craved and believed her family lacked, though her lineage was as noble as any in Gondor as she was both princess of a realm and was related to the Prince of Dol Amroth on her Grandmother's side.
Eowyn's original indent was to fight to die on battle field. Part of her healing process was to apricate live again.
@user-dq6rp4sq1u
Absolutely correct, which was what I had been attempting to communicate. Sadly, the word "death" was dropped from my statement, causing it to have a very different topic.
I feel like "love" is a bit low resolution in terms of Eowyns situation, as it's used way too casually to be able to refer to something as noble as what she did. She was conflicted throughout the movie about what she should do, and her decision to sneak into the troops wasn't a random impulse or simply due to love, but rather to commit herself wholly to her family and people, she knew that this battle will be for the end of the middle earth and that they needed everything that Rohan had to offer, hence it's love, but it's also desperation of a mother trying to protect what's dear to her (which is a deeper part of "motherly love").
And it's amazingly shown how Eowyn knew that she was out of her element (you could see the clear fear and unease) but the strength of her spirit allowed her to make a major difference in the conflict. I feel like she might've been given a power-up on how much she actually contributed against the killing of orcs and stuff, but she giving the last strike against the witch king was a great punctuation to the battle.
No wonder she ended up with Faramir who said, "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
this is why the Mulan remake made me so angry cause it takes a character who joins a war simply to save their father and through grit, wit, and determination she ends up saving the day, and turns them into this cheesy hollow action hero who is only able to fight the villain because she was born with magic rather then any personal quality
I agree completely, even as a young kid seeing Mulan going to fight out of love for her father despite the troubles and managing through hard work and a clever mind to be instrumental in saving china really spoke to me. The live action felt like it spit on all I loved about her. For a long time she was my favorite Disney "Princess"
I was thinking of Mulan this whole time. Everything about the animated Mulan is feminine strength. Driven by love and protection. She's even at her STRONGEST when she stops pretending to be a man and embraces herself as a woman.
Right! Mulan has always been a favorite of mine because she was actually relatable. She grew up soft and unsure of her self and found her worth through grit, determination, and hard work. It was a learning process that showed her growth as a character. In the new movie, Mulan was born gifted and showed no growth. There was no relatability and no change in character, something essential for a good story. I think the movie had a ton of potential, especially from a visual perspective, so I was honestly very disappointed when I saw an 8-year-old Mulan doing backflips and acting cocky.
Coming back to this, I also think Mulan discovers a DEEPER femininity. Her perception of what it means to be a woman early in the movie is completely based on presentation, by the end she understands her strength is in her mind and in her love and desire to care for her people.
Yeah! That scene where she climbs the pole to retrieve the arrow is so powerful, because she doesn't grow huge muscles to be able to complete the task; she uses her brain, to achieve what even the strongest men in her training unit couldn't through brute force.
What's the major difference between Eowyn and modern soulless cookiecutter girlbosses? Eowyn *fears.* She is visibly frightened and distraught when the Witch-King advances on her with a mace. And normally--without Merry's ambush, without the prophecy of the Witch-King being invulnerable to attacks from men--he would be an overwhelming foe.
And yet she still fights him.
Because otherwise her uncle would die.
She has courage.the ability to overcome fear and act.the others had no courage because they do not fear.
@@pemcortes9467 exactly!
And to be completely fair to Eowyn, that mace was huge. You'd have to be insane to not be scared of the guy one-handing a person-sized hunk of metal. Modern girlboss characters would probably make a joke about compensating for something rather than noticing just how much danger they are in.
If Merry hadn't had a Wraith-be-gone sword that nullified the witch king's invulnerability Eowyn would have been dead but she stands her ground.
@@hurinthalion5984 thats a common misunderstanding, the Witch-King was not invulnerable to attacks from men, nor did the elven dagger of Merry suddenly make him vunerable. There is no evidence or lore that points to it, its just a misinterpretation of Glorfindel's prophecy.
The prophecy was that "not by the hand of man shall he fall", this didn't mean he was invulnerable to attacks from men, such power is not a thing in Tolkien's world. Even Morgoth, the ultimate evil EVER, wasn't invulnerable.
What it meant is that Glorfindel foresaw that any man that would challenge him would end up defeated, and ultimately the "hand that would fall" the Witch King would be that of a woman. Its just a simple play with words, pretty normal "prophecy" stuff.
Og Mulan, in spite of dressing like a man, has very feminine modivation. She’s not fighting for her empire, but her father.
True
She also relied not on masculine traits like strength to succeed, but her ingenuity and cleverness, which isn't necessarily femine but certainly something that made her different from her peers both at home and on the battlefield.
She also relies on resourcefulness and tools instead of joylessly tearing through enemy lines because girlboss.
That movie was amazing.
I highly suggest watching Hua Mulan: Rise of a Warrior, a Chinese movie adaptation of their own icon. That movie focused more on filiel piety, sacrifice and love of one's nation.
But also a warning: this movie is DARK literally and figuratively, it deals with so much death and gives us a more realistic take and thousand times better than Disney's own attempt of a "mature" version of the 1998 Mulan cartoon.
What makes this movie more special to me than the cartoon (don't get me wrong, the cartoon is memorable and I still love it) is that despite the name of the movie and expecting it to be centered around Mulan, I personally think it's not at all centered around her but more on war itself, the nature of war and how it's devastating on both sides. Please give this movie a try. It's still available here in YT.
You saying "when the bigger Frenchmen saw this little woman be that brave, they were inspired and reminded of what they were fighting for," made me think of the line from her campaign in Age of Empires 2, "In olden times, men swore fealty only to their particular lord. Now we fight not for insolent lords and ladies, but for France. For all of us, Joan *is* France. There is no distinction in our minds."
Yes, I miss that campaign, ima play it again. For France!
its nice to see someone else who has played age of empires 2, it doesn't get enough love i feel
Eowyn's arc in the books is so important to me. As a kid, I was a bit bummed that she 'settled', but as an adult, I understand that what she craved wasn't bloodshed, but self-fulfillment. For years, she put herself second, caring for her family who loved her in return. She didn't fight cause she liked it, she did it cause she couldn't stay behind. And even after everything was over, she was still depressed, because one victory doesn't magically solve everything (also, people rarely come back from the battlefield all happy and fixed). Her ending up in a loving marriage is a story of healing that makes a lot of sense, since she, to my understanding, rules Ithilien with her husband, which allows her to become the nurturing and caring leader she was meant to be. She's more relatable than a dozen of modern female heroines combined.
❤❤❤ I can't express it better
Ps: And she chooses a good husband, I like him very much
Yeah I never got why some people don't like that she settled down after the war. That's what Sam did. Isn't that what everyone was fighting for? Every soldier fights for the day when they no longer need to fight.
Bilbo says it best, "It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life." It's a running theme through the story. That's why it ends with Sam and Rosie and their kids. That's the final victory of the story, not the destruction of the ring.
Honestly one thing that always baffled me about complaints of Eowyn settling down is the fact that getting a loving family and not having to fight constantly anymore is a happy ending. Everyone was happy when Steve Rogers finally settled down with the woman he loved in Endgame rather than just fighting all the time until he died.
@@shmeebs387I think it’s the fact it wasn’t with Aragorn.
@@gameragodzillaI wasn’t happy about that.
The people that say Tolkien didn’t write strong female characters are either lying or have never read anything he wrote. In the first age Melian the Maia was a woman who’s power held Morgoth (a god) at bay. Her daughter Luthien put Morgoth (a god) to sleep with her power. Haleth became the leader of her house when all the men died and she was a warrior. Not to mention the wives of the elves that left Valinor deciding to stay in paradise. Not to mention Arwen, Eowyn, Galadriel, etc etc.
Morwen (Turin's mother) too
that's what they don't get. While he had only a few female characters, they were always so impressive and strong in their own right.
Technically Morgoth is a fallen angel not a god
Only Illuvatar is God but yes your point is good
yes ! as a feminist I don't really care about how many woman(or man) are in a story, as long as they are really good written ! (I'm so sorry english is not my native language😭💀)
In the book, the reason why Eowyn is able to kill the Witch King is that, unlike everyone else, she does not scoff at Merry's need to join the battle, but has empathy for him and brings him along. The knife that he uses to hamstring the Witch King is one that Tom Bombadil gave him from the hoard of Barrow Wights. This blade was ensorcelled especially to kill the Witch King. Merry's hamstringing of the Witch King is what enables Eowyn to finish off killing him.
Then they should've found a better way to tell that rather than...
"This sword is literal perfection"
"It will be... when it's used by woman"
@@idunbeezasmart1 Merry isn’t a woman, it’s just that he’s a Hobbit and not of Men.
@@wildfire9280 (did he literally just see the name Merry and thought it's a woman?)
@idunbeezasmart1
Tolkien actually does spell it out and even foreshadows it. Frodo uses his blade against the Witch-King, and nearly hits him. Later Merry does the very thing that Frodo tried. Had Frodo hit him at Weathertop, it is possible that the Witch-King might have actually drowned in the river a few days later, which would have been an even more embarrassing end to the greatest threat of the Third Age.
@@michaelgrant6284 No, I know who Merry is, but since yours and the other guy's reading comprehension is sub-par, I will spell it out for you.
The OP states that, in the book, Merry is given a blade that makes the Witch King killable. My point was, instead of using the opportunity for a Girl Boss moment, suggesting that the WK was killed by the power of ovaries, all they needed was to Chekov's Gun the knife at some point earlier in the trilogy and ditch the cringe "I'm no man" line.
My reply was a parody of the infamous exchange from the Batwoman series on CW "The suit is literal perfection"/"It will be when it fits a woman."
"Men being put down doesn't mean women are being propped up--That's impossible. When one of them is struggling, odds are both of them are struggling."
I've actually never heard it put like that but I like it.
Think about the women in Mad Men treated like objects and slapped around, that's not great. Now think of the men in Mad Men . . . the person who's complacent with that and jealously clings to easy gratification, false authority, and public appearances . . . Is that someone you _really_ wanna trade places with?
Many feminists seem to be saying “yes”
Do you mean Mad Max?
Those movies have a common theme of sacrifice. In all the movies Max is always the one to stay behind to ensure the survival of others
He is a Decoy in Road Warrior to allow the settlers to flee
He ensures a runway in Thunderdome so the kids are free
And he blocks the canyon in Fury Road to ensure the escape of others
Or think of the1930s Germans. Sure, the authorities told them they were the master race, but how many ethnic Germans were brutalized along with the minorities? For example the invalids, the Christians (before the Pope made a deal), and just those who didnt approve of the insane asylum. When one of us is mistreated, anywhere, it means someone has the power to do so, and they will use it against us.
Totally agree! A big reason why I hate that show- everyone in it is miserable. I think you summed it up perfectly!
I am all for equality of the sex's, so that I can use those opportunity's to better my life, and the lives of others. What I don't want, or need, is the right to be equally as sleazy, vulgar, stupid, & disconnected as men are allowed to sometimes be in our society. That's a lose/ lose mentality where nobody really comes out ahead.
Plus let us not forget, that there are men out there who don't give into those ridiculous gender stereotypes. They chose to elevate themselves abouve the common crowd, & so will I.
Eowyn practiced with her sword everyday and quite good at it. And yet when she joined the frontline she was quaking in her boots just like the rest of the soldiers and still get inspired by the king's speech. She was portrayed as a human, just one of the boys.
Yeah, my mother really didn't like it whenever I said I wanted to join the military. This was way back in the 1990s when the legacy of communist insurgents, although thoroughly defeated, was still fresh in everyone's mind. Now, I'm just a teacher who plays shooter on the PC while my cousin earned numerous parachute badges and occasionally listened in on Thai army communications.
Eowyn actually fell in love with masculine men like Aragon. Arya only slept with the blacksmith not out of love but simply wanted “to know what it’s like,” in other words she wanted Lust.
I think it was curiosity, not lust.
@@adamnesico Curiosity like that gives girls Syphilis
@@adamnesico curiosity killed the cat you know.
@@pajamaninja2157 this 🐈 is 💀. You can’t kill 💀
@@adamnesicoWhat is based can never lie
LotR has it all: Lack of toxic masculinity, true loyalty, fear, the seduction of power, desperation, humanity and the most amazing (female) characters.
Gosh, I love these books and films so much, I can’t even. They’re the best.
And beautiful rich prose
I mean…since toxic masculinity doesn’t exist, it’s pretty easy to not have it.
And a lack of atheism
No such thing as toxic masculinity it’s just being a toxic person.
@@CathTishIt still has more than one god checkmate Christard.😏
I literally watched LOTR today and thought about how Eowyn didn't need to shout in order to prove herself as a woman, cheers.
The movies do kind of mess up her arc though.
Do you mind explaining?
Me too, I always thought the real badass move would have been sayng nothing and just proceeding to stab the nazgul.
@@figglyawes1122 Basically it was about overcoming depression, which she did through love
@@myvideosetc.8271 From what I understand, in the books the Witch-King recites the prophecy earlier in their confrontation, which causes Eowyn to take off her helmet and reveal that she's a woman much earlier as well.
"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."
Which actually causes the Witch-King to have a moment of doubt, because he always figured the prophecy referred to humanity in general, not men specifically.
So to my knowledge she does in fact just stab him in the face the moment she gets an opening in the books.
I have yet to read the books myself, but after learning of some of the differences I definitely want to.
I actually love that after the war, Eowyn fell in love, got married, and started a family. Politicians go to war over principles. Regular people like us fight so we can go home.
If the principles include greed, then, yeah.
@@voltekthecyborg7898no I hate your view of history
@@ant-i6g Why? Because that's what war turned into? A business?
@@voltekthecyborg7898 War never changes
@@voltekthecyborg7898 War is simply politics by other means What people believe modern War to be is not actually what it is they do not look at the nuance and complexity of this situation and do not even understand the broad strokes
I remember reading the "i am no man," in the book. She is literally standing between the Witch King and says "i am no man, you look upon a woman," and the Witch King makes a shrieking sound. Like the dude was like well this wasn't what I was expecting and still goes all out. Hell, Merry (who also doesn't count as a man because he is a hobbit) stabbing him and giving Eowyn, who had a broken arm at this point, an opportunity to deal the death blow, doesn't take away from her victory.
I think the witch king actually fought harder because she was a woman. like why bother if its a guy, he cant harm you. but once its the thing that can actually do you in, hes fighting for his ghastly survival at that point.
@@KossolaxtheForeswornthe reason she was able to harm him was merrys strike beforehand not actually the fact she's a woman
@@defender1214you. are. an. idiot.
@@defender1214 And the dagger Merry used was forged by an Arnorian weaponsmith - a man long dead. Funny how that prophecy worked out, eh?
@@KossolaxtheForesworn That's not the case at all. The prophecy isn't a magical protection, it's just a prediction that turned out to be true in an unexpected way. The Witch King never believed "I am vulnerable to female humans and non-humans". The Witch King was made vulnerable by being hit by the enchanted dagger from the barrow downs, which was made precisely to fight the Nazgul.
Spot on analysis!! Women have things to offer society as women. We don’t need to be men to have value.
I loved the line that when one suffers, we all suffer.
You have all have value only as breeding cows. And thats pityfull
Women and men should follow their own path with their goals, trying not to be a man or a woman but a better version of who they are, even if you like make up as a male, oe "masculine" things as a woman, it should be done out of pure love not because you are driven by spite
Eowyn's heroism only works because she is a woman, an exception to the rule. Because everyone intrinsically know that the vast, vast majority of women in war are victims, not participants. When a woman takes war into her own hands (as the men are expected to by default) then that is worthy of admiration not because of how strong women are but because of how weak they are, because to act with courage in spite of one's strength is the source of that heroism. It's the same principle behind why the hobbits are heroic, they are heroic because they are small, fragile, otherwise peaceful creatures that willingly take the responsibility of the world in their hands.
I feel that in and of itself is actually kinda a problem though. It's feeds into the double standard of women just getting pat on the back just for being women. Like those clips of the females in the military struggling to do boot camp and the drill instructor cheering them on and everyone motivating them. When you know damn well if it were a guy they would yelling at them.
In the end this leads to inflated ego of the woman, just as we have seen in modern times. Likewise, it's unfair to the men to see a woman get treated like a hero for just doing the job, or realistically doing worse than a man. A man lifts 80 pounds and nobody says shit to him and it's a thankless job. A woman lifts 40 and everyone is praising her, that sort of example.
They should just be kept out of where they don't belong. Just like with politics, they shouldn't be on the battlefield. It's not heroic, it's a disgrace to the men.
@@MALICEM12I agree, women should not be allowed in the military because real life isn't fantasy and real people's lives are at stake. You aren't making a military to maximize "bravery" or "heroism" anyways you are making it to win wars and to win a war you need the best soldiers possible.
@@MALICEM12 It's alright, you can rest easy knowing that if you as a man gave birth to a child, all the women in the world would be praising you too 😉
@@Lufaine01 struck a nerve did I? And honestly they probably wouldn't, women don't like when men encroach on their stuff any more than men do.
@@MALICEM12 I think you missed the point, or maybe you just don't agree with it. No one would bat an eye when a strong man easily lifts 80 pounds but they would cheer when a boy barely lifts 40. That's not because they think the boy is worth more than the man, it's because the boy is challenging his limits and accomplishing a feat that is difficult for him.
To overcome great challenge, no matter how small or how easy others can handle it, is an experience truly remarkable. And to witness someone go through that experience is inspiring. It's why people naturally root for the underdog. It's why the stories of people like Desmond Doss, Jesse Owens, and Chris Gardner are so beloved. Their struggles were different, yes, their accomplishments were different, yes, and people could argue about their importance in history, yes. But what makes them all loved is their fight against the odds, against their personal problems, against their external issues, and against the worlds they lived in.
Women like Jane Kendeigh, Harriet Beecher Stow, and Rosa parks also faced their own difficulties in the times they lived in and none of them did it because they thought they were better than those around them. They all fought for what they believed in despite the opposition they faced and they are heroes because of it.
The Eowyn Problem, as I call it in modern media, is that characters like Eowyn are paraded as symbols of powerful woman warrior whose going to show the boys how it's done, and completely ignoring g the rest of her character and story of how she got there. Eowyn was written as a character with her own goals and motivation rather than just a symbol of female empowerment through strength of arms. Which is why people also get th Shocked Pikachu Face when they read how her story ended with marrying Faramir and living a peaceful life as a healer. Besides Tolkien being all about fighting the good fight today to live in peace tomorrow, there is a huge amount of empowerment that comes in the House of Healing when Eowyn and Faramir are falling in love with each other, he asks her what's she wants. He is possibly the first and only person to ask her that instead of reminding her what her duty is. Eowyn gives vent to this before hand to Aragorn: "Too often have I heard of duty ... may I not spend my life as I will?" Wanting to live as you choose is a hot topic in media portrayals of strong women but becuase Eowyn decides she would rather live peacefully with a man who loves her for who she is; "even if you were the blissful queen of Gondor I would still love you" Faramir says to her, it doesn't count in the modern narrative becuase its seen as settling.
It's such a stupid thing to be annoyed about, too. The Dark Lord is defeated, the world is at peace! Why would she still be fighting, why would anyone? Sam got married and hung up his sword and started a family too, nobody's angry about him doing it.
It also works for Katniss Everdeen! Both of them, Katniss and Eowyn, were raised in situations when danger was around, they knew they should fight to keep their homes and families in peace and safety. Even in war they don't lose empathy for others, who are weaker than them, like Merry and Rue. In the end, when evil (President Snow and Sauron) is defeated, they finally can breathe out and have a normal life they should've had from the beginning. And that's why they choose Faramir and Peeta Mellark, because these men loved them as they were and were capable of healing all wounds war left on Eowyn and Katniss.
After all, when a woman has to know how to defend herself and *fight* for simple recognition of her wishes and needs, it means the world let her down and is not safe anymore, which is actually The Tragedy.
@@hjt091Exactly! Stupid double standard. Sam is praised for marrying and having kids at the end, while Éowyn is condemned for doing the same thing, even though both endured incredible suffering and deserved some peace with the people they loved.
You're the first person who sees it for what it is. She loved her land, her people, her kingdom. She could not stand not fighting for it. Even after battle she struggled because she had no freedom in how she could move to help her people the best way possible. She was bound. Only after faramir asked her what she wanted, she realised he would give her space to be the queen that she could be. She never fought against men. She fought because she loved and cared. She fought so her people could marry and grow families, she fought for love.
I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TOLKEIN LOTR
FUN FACt
I USED TO LOVE THE LOTR MOVIES BUT MAINLY BECUASE OF THE SOUNDTRACK AND MUSIC
THE STORY ESPECIALLY FEMALE CHARACTERS WERE STEREOTYPICALLY HOLY AND MONOTONOUS
THEY WERE EXPECTED TO BE PERFECT AND NOT REALISTIC(THE WORLD IS NOT PURELY BASED ON GOOD VS EVIL ALWAYS OR EVEN PERFECT UNTOUCHED FEMALES)
GOT actually in the later seasons and later part of the books showed the rise of women and had faith in rape victims like daenarys, spoilt disobediant daughters like sansa, unholy boyish ones like briene and Arya
it showed that how realisitic animal societies can be like sexism and also how hopeful it can be like briene being the female knight and daenarys having control over kal drogo and bastard children like jon snow getting respect
the weird thing is, is that Korra was allowed to be masculine, but she wasn't allowed to be strong. She got her ass whooped in nearly every battle.
It's funny, because the show literally goes out of its way to show how overpowered she is... yet then tries to compensate by having her lose in some real bs ways. Almost every aspect of Legend of Korra is handled pretty decently, except Korra herself. Asami is a great character.
It's even funnier when you remember thatToph and Lin both exist within the show, the latter even being an important character, and they are just better versions of Korra's character.
@@lo4tr Its my belief that Korra is such a poor character that characters that get too close collapse into her mediocre black hole from which no quality writing can escape and become worse. Exhibit A, Mako and Bolin particularly Mako. Poor bastard...
@@mylesobrien7477 I entirely agree. I honestly think LoK could have been just as good, if not better, than AtLA... the thing holding it back is the main character. And I'm not even a big fan of Aang; I just don't think Aang makes his supporting cast worse the same way Korra does her own.
Korra was a genuinely awful person on top of that who routinely lied and manipulated those around her to sate her own desires even when she knew it would hurt them
Korra isn't masculine. The core of masculinity is active self sacrifice.
Korra just has no class
Tolkien magically wove the archetypes of the Triple Goddess- Mother (Arwen) Maiden (Eowyn) Crone (Galadriel), into his works,, while he didn't have that many women in his tales the ones he did were always pinnacles of power in one way or another, from Liuthien to Ungoliant
Don't forget melian and halath
He didn’t we’ve any pagan triple goddess non sense into his work, he based his ideal of Galadriel off the Virgin Mary, by his own words.
Mary was based off the many divine mothers who came before her, as a cursory glance through the annuls of history will show . @@jarlwilliam9932
Tolkien was a devout Catholic, diminishing his writing to pagan "archetypes" is insulting to his values, Faith, and skill.
@@serenapopowich8084it’s writing terms. It has nothing to do with religion
Eowyn also did not chose battle because she wanted to be a warrior or a badass, but because she could not bare the thought of dying at home while everyone she cared about died in battle. She did not expect to win. Her character arc was about her turning from a doomer seeking glory in death into a healer desireing life.
Exactly
I’m glad you mentioned Mrs Brisby. I personally believe she is one of even the best well written female characters in all fiction. The only other female character that I can think of that is close to that well written is Hana from Wolf Children. Her gentle nature and motherly struggles had me more invested and emotional in her journey than many modern female characters that are “fighting against the man”
I fucking love Wolf Childen fro that very reason. Honestly it reminded me of my own mother, and made me appreciate her even more.
Hana is stronger than Goku.
Tha k you for reminding me of that wonderful movie! Damn did Wolf Children get me tearing up....
@Gin-San101 okay. Who do you think are the best then?
I would highly recommend beast player erin, the anime that has the best written female character in my opinion, we go through her life journey.
I gasped in delight that you mentioned Mrs. Brisby and The Secret of NIMH! It’s such a criminally underrated movie, and I think she’s one of the most memorable female characters I’ve ever seen! Great reference.
And great point in general! I’m a 24-year-old GenZ woman, and I hate all of these cookie-cutter “strong female“ characters - they’re just annoying toxic men with boobs.
Our strength as women is in our gentle strength, our unbelievably huge capacity to nurture and love, and our ability to bring _new life_ into the world and protect it! And that’s not _wrong!_ and I’m sick of pop-culture trying to tell us it is.
With so many today seeing new life as a burden, instead of the incomprehensible joy and wonder that it is, I wish to merely say it warms my heart to see these words from a lady of our generation. Thank you, and may your road be blessed with many wonders :)
@@aarontyler7508 - What a lovely comment! Thank you very much for it -- you brought a smile to my face on a heretofore unhappy day.
@@milo_thatch_incarnate You're very welcome, and I hope your day improved!
This is a very insightful video. One thing I would add: Men do seek to keep women away from war to try and keep them safe. In the case of Eowyn, however, she also had a job to do. In the absence of her uncle and brother, it was Eowyn’s duty to stay with her people and serve as their leader (Tolkien portrayed her a strong, competent female leader who didn’t need to act like a man). When she went riding into battle, Eowyn was deserting her post and disobeying the orders of her commander. Of course, Eowyn fulfilled a higher purpose with her actions, but it’s interesting to think of how her heroism as a soldier was a result of her behaving badly as a soldier, so to speak.
This was great!
Thank you! When I was younger I was so fascinated by warrior maidens like Saint Jeanne d'Arc. I lost my love for them in recent years because of the fighting girl boss trope we are seeing everywhere now, but you managed to rekindle this by setting it in the right frame.
I'm a mom and a housewife. I love my life, but you become very conscious of your weaknesses if you live so much in your feminity.
It is good to be reminded that we women, we feminine women, are the ones to crush the snakes head, because they threaten our children. Not because of our own strength, but because of our trust in the Lord.
Exactly! The greatest triumph over evil of ALL TIME was foretold to be made possible by a woman. And how glorious it is that the 'weaker' (physically, mind you) entity is the one that defeats the seemingly impossibly powerful strength of evil.
Wow, well said. And it was the baby, born by a woman, whom the serpent saught to devour, but who instead crushed the serpent's head! As it is said "woman shall be saved through childbirth".
If it helps, Japanese media still portray Jeanne d'Arc as a girl when she's not fighting, an ordinary girl who can fall for a man, who has a strong protective sense and duty and faith, regardless of anything about gender.
trust in lord? According to the Bible, it’s women’s fault that we love on sun the way we do. Lmfao. Women were abused and ridiculed and made to think they were less than nothing. Read the Bible thoroughly for once in your life.
In the book Eowyn's line "I am not a man!" as she takes off her helmet, it's epic, because the reader (nor Merry) doesn't know who she is, as Tolkien describes her as "a sad young soldier."
One of the things I love about The Lord of the Rings is that the physically weak characters, like Frodo, are the ones who really defeat evil. His true strength is his courage and his firm determination not to give up, no matter what. That's why I hate that everyone is a warrior now, whether they're men or women. Although in the case of women it is even sadder, because by using the warrior as an example of a hero, it becomes impossible for us to achieve and our true strength is erased.
In the book, her "I am no man" wasn't a post fight girl-boss moment but a pre-fight bandying of wits (like "McDuff was from his mother's womb untimely ripped!").
Also...she had no chance of defeating Witchking upon meeting him.
It was Merry stabbing him with the enchanted Barrow Down knife that broke the enchantments that made him ethereal. Merry made him mortal and Eowyn delivered a desperate blow, which makes her all the more brave.
I have seen several people claiming that the sword of the Barrow-downs made the Witch-King "mortal" and I'm very curious to know where you saw that, because it's definitely not in the books...
What the books say is that the sword "broke the spell that ties his unseen sinews to his will". That is quite a reach to assume this means making him mortal. Or is it more clearly explained in another book?
@@Angrenost02 I myself got it from *In Deep Geek's* _How Eowyn Killed the Witchking_ . It's quite possible he's wrong, but his lore knowledge seems accurate and since I haven't the wherewithal to be a loremaster, he seems like a good one to trust.
@@somedandy7694 Then I'll go watch him. Thanks.
@@Angrenost02 Oh, do! And look up The Well Told Tale. That's where he reads books like Kipling and Call of Cthulu. Robert's got such a good voice.
@@somedandy7694 Well, I watched but he doesn't give his sources... Guess I'll have to do my own research then.
Comparing Eowyn and Arya illustrates something I thought about as a girl growing up reading fantasy. Even though early Arya more closely aligns to what I was, there was always something about the grace of characters like Eowyn that made them the end goal--the character arc should be something like an Arya growing into an Eowyn.
Please, one on Luthien, Tolkien was full enlightened when he wrote her
literally he was, he made her up on his wife LOL
tolkien had a relationship we men of today dream of@@croissaintlovertrure1526
Well of course he was.
She was based on the love of his life, after all. She was written with love.
Did you know that J.R.R.Tolkien served in WWI for the British Military? That's actually what drove him to write The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and other works, as it was his way of alleviating his PTSD.
Éowyn is definetly a great te female character with a really good story arc. 💚 There is actually plenty of good female characters in the wider legendarium. What they are often doing to male & female characters nowadays is a shame. Btw, I love the channel, keep up the good work, man. 👍
This video made me realize, this is why they killed off Natasha Romanoff. Ok, this isn't about Eowen.. but this video made me think of this.
She didn't fit their invincible, fully girlboss, anti mother archetype.
Was she absolutely a badass? Yes. Did they try to turn her into a girl boss at the last minute? A bit yeah.. both before and after killing her.
She was very powerful, very highly skilled. And technically can function on her own. However.. she did often need the help of her friends (the avengers) she couldn't get out of every sittuation by herself. She was strong, but also had times of weakness. Where she'd show herself to just be a human. Was was indeed motherly (which is a sin these days) even If she couldn't have children of her own. It means she took care of her family (the avengers) she was the mother figure when it was needed. Just like she loved Clint's kids.
She wasn't invincible. She was taken down by characters who were stronger than her. She was tossed in a cell and needed her friends help to get out. Unlike some other girlboss marvel characters who don't need help, or a man. And who are the opposite of motherly.
She always did things for those around her. Even If it was detrimental to herself.
Is she skating the edge of girl boss and not? I'd say so, but that's why she has weaknesses. That's why she can't do everything by herself. That's why she's been hurt and shot multiple times. And goes down when it happens. She still cries, she has feelings. She never tries to boast about being stronger then the male avengers. Hell, she doesn't even attempt to lift Thor's hammer. Because she knows she's not worthy.
And instead of giving her the nice life she deserved. She continues this stupid "the only way to redemption is death" ark have seen over and over again in thr last 6 years.
She could have finally gotten to live her life. But they didn't allow her to.
They killed basically the only female avenger. And completely destroyed the other kind of new bb female avenger. None of us are winning in this era. It sucks
Amen
Conspiracy theory: All of this is secretly for the sake on ensuring that the Green Goblin was never spewing bullshit whether he talks about heroes or villains. A dead hero or villain is what society will only love.
As a woman I can't thank you enough! I'm halfway your video but I can't hold myself from leaving a comment, thank you!! Thank you! Thank you! You translated how I feel about this issue perfectly! Keep in mind I consider myself a feminist, but I guess I'm a dying breed of feminist... You got yourself a subscriber!
"And what happened to me when I tried joining the French Foreign Legion" is very relatable so now I'm stuck as a wagie slave
Great points. One thing that irks me with current social climate is that with all the masculine women in media it downplays a lot of the traditional aspects of femininity. Compassion, wisdom, art and nurture/medicine. I think its the biggest folly that taking these aspects away from women is seen as empowerment, when in reality the world NEEDS those aspects. We need compassion, we need wisdom. By not showing those aspects in stories and media we are downplaying their importance. The irony being that it is a very patriarchal mentality to associate compassion, nurture and love with weakness. But what's true strength? Letting your blood run hot and be out for vengeance? Or do everything in your power to defeat an opponent out of love, Despite things being stacked against you? I'm not a superstitious person but I've always loved that in Tarot reading, the "Strength" card isn't some muscular man as we might expect. It's a woman calming a vicious lion. "True courage isn't knowing when to take a life, but when to spare one".
Another awesome video. I don't know if this was done on purpose, but there were more clips of Eowyn smiling lovingly in this video than all of the other female characters you mentioned smiling lovingly combined (that is to say, 0).
And she had the most beautiful smile too even through her sadness.....
Feminists are almost like Anakin becoming a Sith Lord. In their pursuit to combat mysoginy, they became the very thing they swore to destroy, by making women just like men in the worst ways possible, and this irony will forever be lost in them.
Also tangent, what a based mom you have. (Brazil mentioned!)
They didn't really want to combat misogyny though, they just hated constraints on their freedom from accountability
REAL
I will keep saying. Let it go from Frozen is the Sith code in song form. ("look up the song let it flow" if you want it spelled out for you).
The Sith talk about freedom a lot. But they see everything as a power struggle and only be having power can they have freedom. The consequences to others doesn't matter to them. They make more sacrifices then the Jedi, but they choose what these sacrifices are. And it is always motivated by serving the self.
@@viperstriker4728Most all tyrants are like that.
this is like saying that all men are rapists
Bless your mother! I laughed so hard when you dropped that personal story. When I joined the Army my Mom said "Don't worry, if you die I'll make sure Pastor Mike does you right." Knowing full well im an Atheist. I'm thankful I had a mother, it could be worse, but you had a mother's love, outstanding.
Well, Game of Thrones is Grimdark, Lord of the Rings is Nobledark. You basically can’t expect any good moral lessons from Grimdark - only a cynical take on what the natural state of the world supposedly “is”, not any examples of how it “ought” to be.
At its best, Grimdark contains convincing negative character arcs, like Greek tragedies, showing the natural consequences to unwise behaviour - where a lot of other stories that decide on a happy ending a-priori would shield their heroes from the negative consequences of their own actions with plot armour. When Game of Thrones did that, that was when it was at its strongest - like with the deaths of Ned Stark (his heroic flaw was being too naive / trusting), the Red Wedding (Rob Stark placed his own want for a genuine romantic relationship over the promise he had made to the Freys, and over what would have been the politically responsible move at the time), or also the Purple Wedding (even villains don’t have plot armour: When someone makes too many people mad at them, like Joffrey did, tyrants are going to reap what they sowed, too).
The Purple Wedding to me was what distinguished Game of Thrones back in the day from mere cynicism: If the story had been purely cynical and pessimistic, Joffrey would have survived until the end - just like Sansa predicted when he survived his first battle. Realism, however, must contain the realisation that a lot of tyrants do eventually get their comeuppance - from the French Revolution to the Austrian painter to Stalin dying a miserable death, because all of his lackeys were too afraid to enter his bedroom. The question is how many people need to suffer and die first before the tyrant gets their natural comeuppance.
nah I have come to the conclusion that george rr martin is not actually a very good author, also hes pretty lazy.
he tries so hard to stand up to tolkien but he is just not good enough and it eats him alive.
Our weakness is our strength. Being vulnerable, emotional hot messes in adolescence and learning to control this inner turmoil makes women great empaths capable of providing comfort in the most difficult times. Women are also able to be the most cruel if they never find inner peace. Its all potential, and people seem to forget when generalizing that we humans are dialectic depending on what we choose.
Her line about long ago learning that those who do not live by the sword can still die on them is a reflection of the strength survivors have known all down time. The line is eternal and the shield maiden of Rohan is perfect, both in the books and in the movies.
The problem is Hollywood thinks strength only means physical strength. Women are not normally as physically strong as men, but we're strong in other ways. Eowyn shows that. She shows her humanity in a way that we can connect to. The female heroes of the current films do not, so we can't connect with them.
Never enough based fantasy chicks these days.
Well, not enough dudes either, but the former is something I'm thirstier for.
Spot on, hopefully we'll get more characters like Eowyn and less of whatever Rey is.
Sir, thank you. I have never heard this particular take on femininity in my life. If I had grown up understanding this, I think I would have had a very different journey with my gender. I think many girls would have.
Also, your humility and virtue really shone through as you discussed women. Considering how men are beaten down in our current culture, I always understand if they respond kind of negatively towards women when addressing what's going on. But your time on this topic was very respectful and hopeful, and it means alot. I've subscribed! Thank you. X)
Another pilgrim pass video essay, let's goooo!
I cant watch this yet but i am pumped to do so eventually. Love the cannel!
I also love the cannel 🥰
As a recovering post-modernist and someone who STILL has a 'muscle mommy' kink, I say:
Preach on, brother. Let not the selfish competition of 'anything you can do, I can do better' continue, but rather the mutual love of life and each others' virtues return in its full force and beauty.
I love this! I have been writing a fantasy story wherein the main character initially falls for a tough masculine woman only to realize he's actually put off by her drive for aggression in combat and contest. For story reasons he ends up in a nearby nation and meets another young woman, this one ready and willing to fight but traditionally feminine as well in her desire for a family and to nurture. She's a healer who took up the sword out of necessity, not out of a disposition for war.
It's my own response to all the stories about girlbosses and the like that have made me sometimes give up on the idea of dating a good woman, at least until recently, but that's another story. Anyway, loved the video, and I'll keep it in mind for my own work!
I love how you hit it right on the nail when you mentioned we both lose unless we work together. I think that's been grossly underplayed almost everywhere in media today, as if pitting one against the other would do us any favors. Supporting each other is how we win at life, regardless of where this is.
I'm always stoked when a new Pilgrim video comes out. Thanks man.
This was fantastic and I couldn't agree more! I loved your Galadriel video as well! I would love to see a similar breakdown of Arwen. I'm a huge LOTR fan and just found your channel. I'll watch your other videos on the male characters now. It makes me happy to hear a man speaking highly of the inherent value of femininity. So much negativity from both sexes towards the other these days. I am raising two sons and it concerns me for thier future and the future of the West. Vive la difference!
it's a real shame you don't upload more videos more often it's criminal that you don't have more subscribers
these are my favorite video of your Channel
Why is Sci Fi so Religious?
Star Trek vs Dune: When Optimism Clashes With Realism
The Best Thing About Korra
I hope you continue making great videos
13:23 can anyone tell me the name of katara's comic
Avatar: Distorted Reality tapas
I had to do some really hard searching to find it but
here is where you can find it if you want to read it
have a great read
I absolutely love the story of your mother flying to Paris to get you disqualified from the Foreign Legion. That's totally something my mother would have done. I have a medical condition which doesn't curtail my life much but would make it impossible to fight in war (which greatly dissatisfied me as a teenager). My mother always says, 'The best thing about [the condition] is that I never had to worry he'd join the marines.'
I definitely would have too.
I find it strangely comforting that there are many of us here. Watching LOTR. My mother also, from her deathbed, forbade me to go to a military academy.
@@MarkoFTW And yet red pill want to overlook that for their own agenda
I so agree with this idea that many heroic women are idolized simply because they embody a toxic masculinity. Alan Lee illustrated Eowyn as taller and more androgynous than Peter Jackson. Eowyn is both a warrior and a caretaker. Aragorn is a warrior and a king with healing hands. People are able to take the stand of a warrior and also practice the compassion of a healer no matter what their gender identity is.
Eowyn is the manifestation of the European warrior-woman archetype. In ancient Greece this was Athena, in the Norse this was Freyja and Valkyries, and the Celts had the Morrigan. All these Goddesses (although Valkyries which aren't deities) have in common aspects of war and victory, BUT, they are all also feminine and/or mothers. Tolkien was getting blood memory writing that character. It was his natural European instincts.
Eowyn is supposed to be a tragic character
Why is that?@@Hero_Of_Old
@@Hero_Of_Old
Maybe initially, especially before Aragorn came in Rohan and when she almost died in battle. The way I see it (she had a happy life with Faramir in Ithilien with their son), she didn't end up a tragic character at all. Her story, to me, is a story full of hope and healing.
But all those stories are fiction. As interesting as the trope is, it seems to like any grounding in reality. Like taking Joan of Arc as an example. She certainly lead and exposed herself to danger, but she wasn't actually a warrior as the archetype shows. She likely never wielded a weapon in combat.
We do have real stories like that of Lyudmila Pavlichenko, but they always read more like tragedies to me. I just don't understand what is to be aspired to in this archetype, seems more like a warning when seen in reality.
@@viperstriker4728 Yeah it doesn't exist IRL. They love to make out as if shield maidens were a big part of the viking age, they weren't, there are only two attested sources for "shield maidens" but many many attestations for men taking women aside before a fight.
A perfect way to start the morning sir.
If I may suggest, I believe a video on Musashi by Eiji Yoshioka is something we all can agree is long awaited.
Till then thank you for all your hard work.
That book is an excellent exploration of masculinity. Musashi learns how to act like a man in control of himself rather than an animal, while his best friend Matahachi repeatedly falls to his base urges because he never was willing to sacrifice his own desires.
I’d also like to hear more about Otsu. Her continued pursuit of Musashi seemed pointless and foolish to me. Kept reminding me of Sakura from Naruto and how she kept getting rejected by Sasuke.
Deborah Grayson from Invincible is another character that deserves accolades here. She has no superpowers, she never fires a gun, but her positive guidance as a mother contributes in a far more important way.
When Mark is getting an ego trip in the first episode, it would be easy for Debbie to freak out at him, or call Nolan in to discipline him. Instead, she says only two seriously underrated lines:
"Does that make you feel strong, knowing i can't physically make you do something? Is that what you need?"
With those two lines, she immediately derails Mark off the path of becoming a bully. She doesn't swing a single fist during the fight in episode 8, but she was a major reason why Mark would still stand up to Omni-Man even with no chance of victory.
I was just thinking about Eowyn while listening to lotr audiobook. She wasn't trying to promote herself. Eowyn feared mediocrity and complacency. She wanted do fight for her people and do something honorable.💪
Telling a woman, "she should be like a man to be a strong woman", is sexist! Do not underestimate feminine power💖
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on Brienne of Tarth as well. I feel like even by the end of the show, she was a much better example of a feminine warrior than Arya.
Truth.
How did you know it was my birthday? Best gift ever!
HUGE shoutout to Malaika Writes, whose video exploring Eowyn's feminine journey and the feminine need to fight is one of the best analyses of Eowyn I've seen. That video unlocked the feminine journey for me and helped me see my own feminine journey much more clearly
Just looked her up. I’m checking her work out now!
Good choice, looking forward to a dozen rewatches just like every other video you put up
The movie Eowyn was good but the book Eowyn is unparalleled as while so many of Theodens knights failed to master their horses and fear she stood there weeping for her uncle and king she stood against the witch king out of love not because the witch king was directly attacking her the witch king wanted Theoden and Eowyn refused to let him have it. Also Eomers reaction to his sister is more compelling in the books. He’s standing there holding back tears telling his men not to weep overmuch for Theoden and starts recounting the names of the fallen knights around him but when he sees Eowyn face he absolutely looses it. He mounts his horse swiftly and starts chanting “Death Death Death take us all! Ride! Ride for ruin and the world’s ending!!!” And the rest of the host goes ballistic too and starts recklessly charging the orcs and men heedless of the danger. It’s also a damn crime that prince imrahil wasn’t in the movies.
I respect a well done masculine female , something like Zarya from overwatch~ but I also like someone like Widowmaker who is the femme fatale or the kind nurse that is Mercy. Women have alot of different roles to be portrayed and besides the role their actresses can bring out a particular spin on it that is only iconic to them~ it makes me think of how Tony Stark was in the comics- he was and then how his image completely changed after Downey jr. spun him. He did such a job with the character that some people see him as THE de facto image of Iron Man as a conception. We need more female characters and actors that when you think of something you think of them like when I think about female clown i think immediately of Harley quinn and her phenomenal OG voice actor that just drew people in so much that she became canon to the DC universe. Now of course she like anyone need to have good writing behind them~ it's not just the actor or actresses fault-- it has to be a mesh of it all trying to convey positive and good messages without lecturing or virtue signaling a baseball bat over your hat for the 30th time like recent Disney movies have- there is nothing wrong with Girl power or go get em girls moment like charlies angels--- but when it just dominates every flavor till thats all you get is a bitter spiteful taste--- well people spit it out.
Eowyn charging into battle despite being just as afraid as everyone else and squaring up against the Witch King was absolutely badarse
Tolkien made her a great character all on her own without needing to put other characters down to make her look better
I read a few days ago that Tolkien really hated the way Shakespeare fulfilled the Witches' prophecies in Macbeth. In Macbeth, the forest attacking the castle was just some guys with tree branch camo, and "no man of woman born" was just a guy who was born by C-section. As if that didn't count as a birth. So Tolkien had a forest of living trees actually attacking a tower, and a woman killed the Witch King. Also a hobbit, who isn't a (hu)man made it possible for the woman using a dagger forged by a long-dead man, thus not a living man.
Now I never thought of it that way, but that's actually a really good point. I assumed that the Warrior-Maiden trope was entirely modern and anti-tradition and here comes Tolkien to wreck my assertions.
Search Haleth of the Haladin. She's fierce and brave warrior woman from the First Age, even an elf lord was impressed by her.
Agreed, I had the same thought.
I could be entirely talking out of my ass, but I feel like even the mythical portrayal of Valkyrie, the eponymous warrior maidens of Nordic folklore, would pretty heavily imply that it's not a modern trend. And there's also Athena, Hestia... in Greece, the Celtic (I think) Scathach...
When she says something along the lines of "Brave, Merry. Brave for those we love" it always brings tears to my eyes 🥹
She was so lovely like a mom to Merry. And so brave
A video from Pax yesterday and a video from Pilgrim today. Awesome!
So beautifully stated. I wish every writer, director, and feminist would watch this video.
I think of feminism as there being room for all kinds of women to exist and be powerful. Mothers like Molly Weasley who go full momma grizzly bear when the kids are in danger, Mulan (cartoon) and Eowyn as warrior maidens who return to more peaceful lives after the war, and Claire in Outlander who is educated and brave are not inherently better than female characters who embrace traditionally masculine forms of power. You have girlie girls like Rapunzel in Tangled, non traditional women like Brienne of Tarth, workaholics at the top of fashion like Miranda in the Devil Wears Prada, and none of them should be a cautionary tale. I feel like this video, which I generally liked, still assumes that women SHOULD be a certain way, and in that gender role is her power. I think when we let every human escape the strict social constructs of masculine and feminine, and just have personality traits, people will be happier.
There are objective ways to be a better man or woman. Social constructs exist for a reason, and that is guiding men and women to play to their strengths for the world to go round. Feminism and Marxism love to flip the table on all of that and assert that those things are nothing but the consequences of power imbalances throughout history, which is a deranged and anarchically cynical supposition.
It's completely natural for people to generally like characters that fit the stereotypes of their respective places in society better than those who are trying hard to be something they're not. The politicization of these contrived archetypes don't help with their public reception either. Just as women have an innate proclivity to show disdain for unmasculine men, the vice versa is okay for men and tryhard boss girls.
To conclude, people are free to present themselves whichever way they like, but they need to deal with the public perception that comes with it. You can't change what people have evolved to have a preference for through hundreds of thousand years of evolution.
@@alwaysright3943 I appreciate your calm discussion of your point of view, as that is rare as of late. I do, however, disagree with your premise that there are ways in which people should behave, or jobs and roles people should perform based on historical gender constructs. We are no longer hunter gatherers bound by any limitations of that age. I do believe that some people take feminism to a hurtful place, largely because hurt people hurt others and those who have been systemically denied agency may naturally lash out against the system. Let’s not forget that my grandmother’s generation could be fired from work if they became pregnant, and my mother’s generation was the first to not need a man’s signature to get a credit card; the pain there is still recent and raw for a lot of people. To me, feminism is just a belief that allowing all people to be their best, authentic selves who can aspire to be anything helps everyone, not just women. Feminism lets men be gentle stay at home dads as much as it allows women to be the primary earners in a highly educated career. It is not contradictory to follow more conventional paths within feminism, if that is your choice, so long as you do not force others into roles or behaviors they do not choose for themselves. America Ferrera’s speech near the end of Barbie briefly summarizes how the current social construct limits women, and I am certain that there is an equivalent version of that speech for men. It is the traditional social construct that holds humanity back from reaching its full potential, and I am in favor of all people having more freedom of choice in the social space.
I also disagree that women disdain less masculine men, assuming that we are talking about masculine in a traditional sense. The studies generally conclude that, once women are ready to form long term partnerships or raise families, they typically choose a stable, supportive, and more caring man to the more physically masculine one they may have preferred earlier in their lives. Not that all women make that choice, of course, but the aggregate trends towards a reliable partner. Aragon here is a healthy example, and there is a great video on his version of masculinity that we typically don’t see in other male leads. He’s humble, kind, and emotionally expressive towards both men and women. I also enjoyed a deep dive on the masculinity of Newt Scamander in the Fantastic Beasts series.
@@erinperez6083 I have multiple issues with your response.
"I do, however, disagree with your premise that there are ways in which people should behave, or jobs and roles people should perform based on historical gender constructs. We are no longer hunter gatherers bound by any limitations of that age." That's fine, but those roles are often the ones that people of each gender excel at. Men are still better than women at somethings and vice versa. It doesn't necessarily take the fear of dying to wild life for people to make choices that would optimize their chances of success. There is still plenty of competition among humans and the will to win is as strong as it was thousands of years ago.
To your next point, I doubt any reasonable person would be opposed to the idea that everyone should have the same opportunity to strive to be great at what they want, that is without trying to over correct for each individual's privileges or misfortunes leading up to that point. No one should be discriminated against or pandered to based on their identity or life circumstances.
"Feminism lets men be gentle stay at home dads as much as it allows women to be the primary earners in a highly educated career." That is cool in theory, but in practice men are terribly put down for staying at home, even though their work is just as crucial as being the breadwinner, if not more so.
"America Ferrera’s speech near the end of Barbie briefly summarizes how the current social construct limits women" I haven't watched that movie, but I struggle to see how women are limited in ANY WAY in modern Western society. That just sounds like women blaming the good old bogeyman "Patriarchy" for their underachievement despite almost every aspect of society being catered to them specifically.
"I am in favor of all people having more freedom of choice in the social space." Freedom of choice does not include freedom to decide public thought. That's just not how human beings work. Judging others is as natural to us as speaking and thinking.
"I also disagree that women disdain less masculine men, assuming that we are talking about masculine in a traditional sense. The studies generally conclude that, once women are ready to form long term partnerships or raise families, they typically choose a stable, supportive, and more caring man to the more physically masculine one they may have preferred earlier in their lives." So for being in touch with their feminine side men get rewarded with... more masculine men's leftovers? That doesn't sound like such an appealing arrangement to me. I'd personally much rather get a woman in her prime without the financial and emotional obligations of marriage than be settled for by a woman who's past hers and is only with me because she lost the competition for the masculine man to younger women. Other men could think differently though.
"Aragon here is a healthy example" I'm sorry but women don't get to decide whatever makes their lives easier to be conveniently "healthy". Masculinity isn't innately negative or positive, it's the context that decides it's usefulness. You can't pick and choose what aspects of it are valid based on what benefits you the most. Oh, and "emotionally expressive" really isn't what I'd call a masculine trait lol.
@@alwaysright3943 Just be a being with divine delusions and a real life God Killer Vegito aka a cautionary tale will ultimately exist and many uninvolved poor souls will die miserably. Hate to tell you but social constructs have all the right to be deconstructed because what you say is what motivaded the God Killer to be what he is
Lotr was basically injected directly into my veins growing up and i always connected to eowyn as a character, however it did bother me that her 'happy ending' was to marry Faramir and leave her beloved kingdom to live in Ithilien. I also never saw her love for Aragon as a necessarily romantic love, but more so jealousy and desire for the close companionship he had with the rest of the fellowship. She was very lonely before the war because no one really understood her--Theoden was mentally removed and her brother and everyone else saw her as either an object of desire (wormtounge) or a delicate symbolic flower of Rohan, to be protected and revered but never known intimately. Aragon was the first person to be willing to see her for who she was and she desperately wanted to join his company (ex into the paths of the dead in the books) because she saw the mutual love and respect aragon and his friends had for each other and she wanted to be known and loved similarly and also fight alongside and protect those she loved
The recent anime "Sacrificial Princess and the King of beasts" is also a great example of a very feminine and strong female protagonist who fully embraces her femininity and reaches power through it. The story itself Is about how masculinity and femininity should complement each other in order to build a successful civilization. I prefer the manga through since the anime Is a rushed adaptation.
Interesting, especially given how hyper reality and subverted anime has become. With so many masculine powerful women dominating and emasculating men. And don't even get me started on works like Black Lagoon
@@MALICEM12I've never watched black lagoon, but I heard good things about it. What do you not like about it? I'm thinking of giving it a try.
@@YVJ1R0 it's very much and very clearly fem Dom fetish material and insulting to any self respecting man I would say. Not to mention given how wide spread such stories have become since then. Not to mention it sexualizes terrible criminal women. And just the whole show is very biased.
On a technical level the animation is good quality, but the content is edgy filth.
@@MALICEM12 I thought there would be a nice romance between revy and the main guy, but fem dom fetish? Yeah no, thanks for the heads up!
@@YVJ1R0 I don't recall their "romance" or if there even if one. But by femdom I don't mean dating I mean the entire show in a nutshell. It's very much a "sexy badass one women armies killing tons of guys while wearing fetish clothes" type anime. There's a nun, a maid, a girl in a Chinese dress, and of course revy is always half naked. And of course she's always threatening to cut men's balls off so....yeah, that's what I meant. I don't recount how her and Rock actually end up. But yeah you aren't missing anything other than really smooth gun animation. But you can see that in lots of older anime. If you haven't watched Ghost in the Shell yet I highly recommend it.
This is something Tiny Little Me didn't understand when I first watched Lord of the Rings. I was like "why didn't Eowyn stay a warrior? She's so cool!!" Because I related to her struggles. But on rewatches as I've grown, I've come to understand and relate to her even more.
I hate the whole erasure and negativity that feminine roles get in modern stories, implying that those roles aren't worth anything compared to the masculine roles. Like, excuse me, without feminine roles y'all ain't getting clothes, food, healing, or true safety. Support classes are worth just as much as DPS or Tanks. There may not be Fame attached to those roles, but that's more a failure of history and record keeping than the importance of those roles.
Like Tolkien’s LoTR, Frank Herbert’s ‘Dune’ is another timeless epic with well written female characters. Lady Jessica is feminine, gentle and nurturing; Frequently displaying both love and fear; humility and honor.. All throughout the book she loyally defers to the command of her husband and son. Yet, she is absolutely deadly. One of the wisest and most powerful characters in the story, without question
As a woman I cried watching this video because t feels like being understood for the first time
Eowyn is one of the only feminine fighter-type character that is sympathetic to me because the author kept her feminine : empathic, nice, airy, a "round", a bit naive and idealistic personality, a little wild. Which is feminine, and her reasons to go fighting are understandable as feminine. She has intuition and goes against the overly intellectual way men act. She just knows what is to be done, which is what women are usually good at, going straight at what is essential, prioritizing and not bothering with abstractions, prejudices, theories ... She goes towards life, even when going to battle. She is feminine in the sense that she is never shown to have a deathwish, even when she puts her life in danger. She just recognize the necessity of risk in order to survive.
Best thing I've ever seen bro. Thank you for this. My thesis was about lotr and yet I've never looked at Eowen from this perspective, definitely subscribing plz keep these coming ❤❤
Eowyn is goated and what sucks is that people will ignore her motivations and actual character arch she fights for what she loves and because she despaired in life so strove with the greats to live in song she survives and learns that true happiness does not lie in glorious death on the battlefield and to love someone who loves her. I also dislike what people will say about the people who tell her to not go to the battlefield. Think about it would you want the person who you love most to go to the battlefield where you believe that you will die on?
Here are my two cents on this and why I love Eowyn so much as a Christian. Eowyn's (masculine) obsession with power and fighting and immortality from her deeds as a warrior is a function of the pre-Christian pagan warrior ethos Rohan represents. The problem with that ethos that Tolkien is commenting on is how selfish that desire can be, which Eowyn realizes by fighting for love (to save her uncle King Theoden from the Witch King), something she could only do by abdicating her responsibility and fighing at the Pellenor Fields (which was selfish and pagan of her and done for the reasons mentioned above). Knowing that, I think Eowyn is a brilliant critique of the strong female character in general and just how vapid and piteous the desire to be a "strong female character" (just for the sake of it and not for virtue) can be. And this extends to men as well, I suppose.
Good take
I am reminded of the show Vinland Sega. "A true warrior does not need a sword." The show takes place in the time of the Christianization of the Vikings and this pagan vs Christian world view shows in exactly as you described with Eowyn.
I have come to the conclusion that the "strong female character" is girls taking on masculine pride. And pride leads to destruction, regardless of which gender takes it on. It's actually really sad.
I disagree with the Christian vs pagan angle but I agree with the later part
Maybe this is the difference of perception, but Eowyn does seeking glory from battle, she said it quite number of times, I think. And her love for Aragorn is like an admiration from a soldier to their great captain, because of the glory he's able to achieve.
about 2 weeks ago my mental health was really messed up. i drove in the night and had to fight with me to not let the steering wheel go at 120kmh. i drove home and went to sleep. the next moring my mom was at my door. she visits me rarely and normaly tells me a few days bevore that she will visit. this time she just came without any warning at told me that she couldnt sleep all night. something tells her that im in trouble and in need of help. first i didnt want to tell her because i dont wanna make her sad or dissapointed but after some minuts i told her how im feeling. we sat down nearly the whole day and she told me stories she never told me bevore and reminded me that ending it meself is no option. one story she told me was about one of her best friends. he was very supportive while she was pregnant with me. he had an accident with his motorcycle a few days and died and im named after him. it really helped me and i feel way better now.
what i wanna say with that is that mothers have some insane powers and are the most powerfull humans on this planet.
Edit: i have seen the films sure more then 50 times by now but even without the sound seeing her crying cause theoden died and eomer crying because he thinks that eowyn is dead makes me tear up. great work by the actors!
This guy is wicked smart! Way to put to words what everyone is feeling about these stupid trends in Hollywood lately, keep up the great videos!
Nice to finally now be able to properly speak to you very clearly now, Pilgrims Pass, I can completely see that you love creating video essays on the important lessons we can learn from movie characters such as masculinity, femininity and modernity, and because of that I'm going to cut straight to the chase and explain what ideas I have specifically for you to read now. I have this idea or these ideas where you and a bunch of other youtubers who are massive fans of The Lord of the Rings film trilogy should all come together with the entire cast and crew of Sir Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film trilogy (2001-03), and when I mean the entire cast and crew I am not kidding or telling a joke, I'm actually being very serious. The director, the directors of photography, the producers, the executive producers, the cinematographers, the film composer, the actors (including some of the actors behind the scenes such as Sir Christopher Lee, Sir Ian Holm and the other actors that are now dead, and this doesn't involve the famous actor Sir Ian McKellen), the script supervisors, the writers, the editors, the stunt supervisors, the food supervisors, the makeup artists, the production designers, the people who were involved with the songs In Dreams and May it Be, by Enya , Gollum's Song, by Emilíana Torrini, and Into the West, by Annie Lennox, the people who created the weapons, prosthetics, miniatures (or the Big-atures) and so much more. What I am wanting to happen with you, the other youtubers, and the cast and crew that was involved with Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film trilogy is for all of you to sit down in one of those stylish meeting rooms, and discuss all together why The Lord of the Rings is the Best Trilogy Of All Time and nothing will ever come close to it not even Harry Potter, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, Game of Thrones, House of a Dragon, The Witcher, The Chronicles of Narnia, John Wick, Marvel, DC, The Matrix, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones, The Mummy, Jumanji, James Bond, The Godfather, Godzilla, King Kong and Amazon's The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. I know you kind of did this with Pax Tube already, and are still doing the masculinity and femininity video essays on every LOTR character, but trust me, this is only a once in a lifetime opportunity. There I then thought that you guys can discuss all of your opinions on the J. R. R. Tolkien books, and the Peter Jackson movies, talk about the advantages and disadvantages that they have over and below each other, read all the books fully and analyze them and why they work so well, watch the theatrical and extended editions of the whole movies and analyze them and why they are perfect adaptations, explain the very few references and similarities that they have to The Holy Bible itself (such as the three Christ figures Aragorn, Frodo, and Gandalf) and probably the film versions of it, Tolkien's war experiences during the Battle of the Somme in the trenches during The Great War that actually changed the course of history, his catholic and religious beliefs, and why nothing in general will ever come close the story in general. You and the other youtubers should also do this thing where you should also analyze all three parts of the story (Part One: The Fellowship of the Ring, Part Two: The Two Towers, and Part Three: The Return of the King) but after each part is over you will all take breaks and vote which youtuber should have a one on one interview with which member of the cast and crew of the trilogy, and then you will all go in separate rooms with a different cast and crew member, plan out what questions you all should ask, change cast and crew members with each break along with different questions, increase the lengths just like the increase in all three parts of The Lord of the Rings, and then when each break is over then talk about what answers that you all got for the interviews. Some of the many youtubers that I thought of inviting to this should be @NerdoftheRings, @thefriendshiponion6189, @Jess_of_the_Shire, @TheBrokenSword, @kingdomsofarda1717, @TolkienLorePodcast, @tolkienuntangled, @LoreOfTheRingsYT, @VoiceoftheRings, @TalesoftheRings, @CounciloftheRings, @TheoryoftheRings, @TolkienTree, @TheRedBook @MiddleEarthTheory, @lfwinesroad3399, @geekuniverse6172, @heartofahafling3142, @MemoryTroll, @timbotook6447, @ArachirGaludirithon, @TheTabletopAlliance, @TheOneRingNet, @VoiceofGeekdom, @ThePhilosophersGames, @TolkienTube, @EverythingInMiddleEarth, @BeginningofDays, @GeekZoneMT, @Epic_Kingdom, @MiniExpBounder, @InDeepGeek, @DarthGandalfYT, @MiddleEarthLore, @MacbethofGondor and so much more, you should also do this with many other youtubers who don't talk about The Lord of the Rings, but do mention that they are fans of it or at least talk about it such as @ColbertLateShow, @PaxTubeChannel, @RewiretheWest, @NerdCookies, @HelloFutureMe, @WriterBrandonMcNulty, @flickfanatics7948, @thecluelessfangirl809, @LikeStoriesofOld, @HelloMellowXVI, @PopcornInBed, @JonnyLawYT, @DorkLords, @thegoldman25 and @jedibrooks7235 for example (but not the ones that mention LOTR once and then focus on another film or novel franchise such as @KlaytonFioriti, or @AGamingBeaver), and you should all talk about your different ways on how you would all view this as being a masterpiece. By The Way, you should also share this with many of the other youtubers who love Middle-earth in general and should plan with them on how you could improve on this comment such as inviting so much more youtubers who also love it a lot, and that I didn't add on this comment earlier on, discussing this with Peter Jackson and the Tolkien family and their views on them since they aren't the very best of friends (and that fact that Christopher Tolkien, and Simon Tolkien didn't appreciate it), and should also do the same thing with Peter Jackson's The Hobbit film trilogy (2012-14) and doing the same thing that I explained earlier with LOTR, such as also discussing about the score, and the songs such as The Song of the Lonely Mountain (Extended Version) , by Neil Finn, I See Fire, by Ed Sheeran, and The Last Goodbye, by Billy Boyd, (and also discussing again what it was like for some of the cast members that are dead now such as Barry Humphries who played as the Great Goblin and again this does not involve Ian McKellen since he is again not dead yet) but also to mostly discuss why they weren't very good adaptations of the novel. Good luck out there @PilgrimsPass and please share, and improve on this with the other youtubers, and the entire cast and crew of The J. R. R. Tolkien trilogy and The Peter Jackson trilogy. The real reason for this also is to basically change many different peoples' opinions and views on this amazing work of literature especially since it's the 20th Anniversary of these films, because not all Christians view it as a masterpiece, because I am a huge fan of LOTR too, but also because I'm also one who is a Christian believer, and I have witnessed other Christians not viewing it as a masterpiece that tells the story of good vs evil, since it shown as something completely underrated since people on the internet want a lot of realism, when in reality it actually invented the high fantasy genre, defined the fantasy genre, and it even made John Ronald Reuel Tolkien himself become what he is now known as the godfather or the father of modern fantasy that is of course now shown in both the 20th Century with his own books, and the 21st Century with the Peter Jackson adaptations. But also because the movies in my opinion destroy the stuff that Hollywood mainly shows in their films specifically the modern movies that are made today, even if these films are maybe sometimes considered to be not as good as their original work by Tolkien (especially involving around Peter Jackson's The Hobbit trilogy), or if they are even usually considered to be amazingly Massive Hollywood, Blockbuster, Action & adventure movies, and also have really epic and really well crafted moments in them such as the large and huge amount of set pieces, the brilliant use practical effects, the incredible and awesome use computer generated effects when it was something made 20 years ago as well, large-scale warfare, six genres which is just everything that is ever put on the film director's bucket list in three movies such as action, adventure, romance, comedy, and horror that was just managed to be put altogether in a whole and a massive high fantasy setting, and amazing character moments and awesome moments of really well-crafted character development in each of those three films as well.
I’m a woman and a Feminist but I never feel empowered by characters like Captain Marvel. I love 90’s Mulan because it was realistic that she wasn’t as physically strong as her male counterparts but she was cunning and resourceful and determined. Those are just great traits in a warrior regardless of gender. And I was empowered by Eowyn because she was realistically afraid in battle but she charged forward anyway, and she protected Theoden despite her fear. She didn’t have an absence of fear! Thank you for honoring brave, sweet Eowyn! I’m glad you can acknowledge that women can be great warrior characters. I don’t feel that my motivations need to always be feminine as I do pursue personal greatness out of pride but I also love protecting my friends, loved ones, and clients. I have to disagree with you about Arya, though. I never had a problem with her. She was clearly dedicated to the craft of sword fighting and Game of Thrones showed her struggles and perseverance with it. She was far from a Mary Sue. Not every female character or even real woman has to want to be a wife and mother. I’m happily married but reluctant to have children because they would interfere with my career. I’d love to hear your thoughts on my queen, Danaerys. I think she always looked pretty and loved fashion but also kicked serious ass and wanted to amass power. I don’t personally see anything wrong with that. Yet it was believable that her strength largely came from her dragons because she was a woman and was physically weaker than her male adversaries. And yeah I didn’t like ROP Galadriel either. I LOVE Cate Blanchett’s Galadriel.
Although I can appreciate these in fiction. Particularly Mulan is one of my favorite characters. I do think it is worth mentioning that these have no grounding in reality. Joan of Arc was awesome and a great leader, but as far as I know she never actually wielded a weapon against an enemy.
I mention this because the pride you spoke of is being carried onto real world battlefields. And pride leads to destruction. Ask a real soldier in the US about their thoughts on Jessica Lynch. Sometimes we forget that war is not a game. And that we are not action heroes.
But the biggest think I take issue with here is to pursue personal greatness. To me that is a complete reversal of the self-sacrifice of real warriors. Mulan was a real warrior, she didn't do it for pride or greatness.
Arya is young and doesn't want to be like her sister, she's rebelling against the expectations put upon her. It's fairly common for young tomboys to grow into their femininity as they mature. I certainly didn't like being associated with anything overtly 'girly' when I was young.
I take nothing you said seriously because any argument you made is automatically canceled out by your claim to be in the cauldron brewing Cliterati sisterhood of socialism. So you want to have your cake and eat it too.
You and your social economic cultural legal personal and political beliefs and power fostered and facilitated the destruction of humanity, but YOU get to be offended by what you voted for condoned and participated in, WITHOUT having to change or renounce your part in any of it?! You are the heart of the problem you're complaining about! Sincerely your worst and mutually hateful enemy: the straight white Christian man.
@@TPFB129 I can't blame you for reacting that way. But remember when Jesus was dying on the cross and said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." He told us to pick up our cross and follow him.
Imitate Jesus and trust in God, and he will have your back through the culture war.
I want to add to the list of good strong female characters, Juliet O'Hara from Psych.
She's tough, smart, competent, a good detective, but she's also gentle, supportive, caring, fully embraces her femininity, and never tries to show up her male colleagues.
She's never portrayed as having to work harder the be on par with her male colleagues or superior, like Lassiter, instead she just does her job and does it well like any good cop.
The only time I can think where they are competing, it's mostly done as a joke, because Juliet got a higher score on the Detectives exams then Lassiter, and he just can't let it go. Part of Lassiter's character is he's a workaholic, and he's very prideful at being the absolute best detective, and he just can't let it go that anyone, not even Juliet, his partner and someone he respects so highly, did better then him.
And it's made even funnier when later it turns out that Shawn, who is a complete goof man-child who never takes things serious, actually got a perfect score on the Detectives exam when he was just a teenager.
And it also helps that Lassiter and Shawn and Gus never think little of her, they know she's capable on her own, and all have the highest respect for her. They're a team and they compliment each other.
That's something that many of these writers forget, men and women are meant to compliment each other and support each other. Not compete with each other.
You really just need to read the first part of the Steward and the King to understand how deeply Tolkien understood these things.
As lady, I really dig the narrative takeaway. It’s not about trying to prove yourself, it’s about fighting for who you love. No woman should try and HAVE to prove something about their womanhood. Just be kind and just be. Like any good human. And I’m glad others agree that being a mother or loving a man, isn’t gonna make you bad. Hating everyone and making a point of “all men bad” is bad.
I think femininity doesn't have one single form of expression, and it looks different on every woman. I would love to see every different type of woman be portrayed. Of course, not as an empty stereotype but as fully fleshed characters with depth to them.
'Strong woman make strong sons, who become strong fathers, who in turn make strong daughters.'
Fantastic quote
Beautiful, compassionate, loyal and brave. Eowyn is a REAL strong female character, not an overpowered, unlikable barely feminine asshole putting down every man around her.
Thank you for adding the 'Saint' before Joan of Arc. So many people either forget or ignore that part
Eowyn’s motivation to fight was to defend her country and her people. She had no ulterior motive like sticking it to the man and showing the men around her that she’s better than them. She was scared of war but she went to Minas Tirith nonetheless. To this day, when she kills the Witch King, burly bearded muscle bound men cheer for her. No modern Hollywood girl boss will elicit such a response from men. Eowyn shows fear and immense bravery in the face of that fear. That’s what makes her such a strong female character.
Well said. Courage is not the absence of fear.
Thank you, Brother! You are speaking from the true source! Keep going! This authentic voice is much needed nowadays.
Honostly something that sets eowyn apart from modern “strong women” is that she is visibly frightened before the charge into Pellinor fields and when she confronts the witch king
It's so great to hear you say so many of the things I think about on my own, for example the idea the portraying strong women as physically stronger than men is actually patriarchal because it implies that male traits are superior to female traits.
I would love it if you can do a video where you give your take on the modern phenomenon of films and shows (or even video games) celebrating or glorifying traditionally evil or "bad" characters. I am really curious of the history behind it, why studios make them, and the potential long-term consequence of this practice. I recently had a massive argument with a friend of mine about how the GTA franchise glorifies people doing bad things. And I have a massive gripe against lots of American musicians glorifying their lifestyles in the hood.
The romanticism of villains as well. There's this quote circulating online that says something like a hero will sacrifice you over the world but the villain will sacrifice the world for
The demons think they can win so they're making their move now. Really that simple
@@cosmictreason2242💀💀
Not everything has to be boring 😂 people can separate fiction from reality. Not everyone wants to play a game where they’re the hero or the good guy all the time. Not to mention, come on be for real, a lot of us relate more to the villains than the hero’s.
@@Las645 Then explain to me why animes like Haikyuu dramatically increased the number of volleyball players in Japan. If people can tell the difference between fiction and reality, then nobody should be inspired by Haikyuu since nothing in there is real.
This is so ... apt. You're the first youtuber to actually discuss this without boilerplate critiques. Thank you for a thoughtful video
I feel like Wonder Woman does well at being very feminine and badass. She found a great balance.
People forgot that being feminine doesn’t mean you can’t be fit and athletic… it doesn’t mean you can’t fight and/or win a fight… it doesn’t mean submission to any male. You can do all those things and still be feminine. It’s not how you look and what you do… it’s how you act and carry yourself.
The funny thing about Galadriel and Elrond in the books is that Elrond is a recognized warrior who chooses to be diplomatic and a healer after seeing the horrors of war, and Galadriel is someone who may have the training (1st age elves were more of a warrior race than anything), but chooses to not pick up a weapon, and keep to diplomacy and guiding others.