My Sleeves Don't Fit! More Farmall MD Headaches
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2021
- Today I found that my new sleeves don't fit. This Farmall MD engine has presented lots of headaches, but I am committed to overcoming them. With the help of the good folks at Bates Corporation, I come up with an alternate solution for new engine sleeves. I also disassemble and clean the oil and fuel filter assemblies, explaining how each works.
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Hi Pete thank you for keeping us all entertained during these though times I can't wait to see the MD run!!
i love this channel and cant wait to see the md running i am 13 and love old tractors and currently in the process of getting my great grandfather’s 1950 john deere b and are making good progress
Wait a minute, not even one Dad joke? What a gyp! Love your channel!
Pete - your bad day was way better than my day. I would rather have the issues you are having than to have my issues (people related). At least you can yell at the engine and walk away. LOL
This is gonna be a great series
It already is! I love watching these kind of Video if someone is knowing what he does (Kimi Raikönnen style)
And he knows what hes doing!
A tough day in the shop working on old tractors is still way better than a good day at work, good luck and thanks for the series
Well at least you can pass off the sleeve issue to the machine shop and get some help there. I'm sure that problem can be solved and you have a good plan. Glad you have a company like Bates to work with - they seem pretty flexible.
You have such a great attitude about things. Maybe that's one of the things I like about this channel.
I’m sorry about the sleeves. I have a 1948 John Deere A. They made them so long and made so many updates that parts can sometimes be a nightmare. I love your channel.
I really admire a detailed mined person no matter what they are working on, i.e. simple or otherwise. Enjoying this project very much, interesting, educational and informative.
Glad you enjoy challenges! Thanks for explaining the processes. You can definitely make those old tractor parts shine. 🇺🇸🚜👍
That was really clever the way you used the vise-grips to hold the filter housing in the vice.
I thought the same thing!!
Thank you for making your content. Such a positive force in such strange times.
Man years ago we done a Super MD. It has the deep dish groove. Dad tore it down. We both were on the road and in at different times. When the sleeves came in I chilled them and installed them , not knowing that they had a small ring around the top , and he had taken out a set of large ring liners. It ran for a while and started skipping. The cylinder had zero compression , like read completely zero. It didn't knock or do anything suspicious, the valves worked fine. We suspected the diesel valve had somehow messed up. Pulled the head , nothing there. Finally looked and realized the entire liner or sleeve was M.I.A. It was shattered like glass in the oil pan. Being it was a new parts person who sent us the parts Styner , Stiner (however it's spelled) sent us a complete new engine kit. It had already ruined the bearings with liner guts.
Very interesting! When I was a 6 year old, our MD was returned to the farm after an overhaul at the dealership and it dropped a piston as the delivery truck drove away. It was determined that they used the wrong head gasket. Fast forward 56 years and I now understand why!
Keep pushing that Rope Pete
You discovered it early before the trip to the machine shop, that alone is a blessing to me.
Thanks Pete
Me and my stepdad just got a super md and we love watching your videos!
"I'm gonna leave this off...because I'm afraid of it getting busted if it get's piled in with parts...oops" I've been chuckling over that for a while now... If that had been me, I would have dropped it on the floor and cried as it shattered LOL
This is an awesome series on the MD. I’ve really been intrigued with how that engine works. Previously I’ve always grown up with Fords and John Deere’s on my grandpas farm, but now I have a new found interest in the Farmalls. Specifically I really like the McCormick Deering 10-20, the MD, and the F-20.
I like your approach to thinking about things Pete, and the attitude and your determination are inspiring. Please film the machine shop work if they let you.
Thanks for showing me the trick with the vice grips and the vice on a round piece makes alot of sense love the videos and I hope alot of people pay attention to a dying breed you can learn alot from guys like him
Just noticed you have a Quincy air compressor. They're great! Super performance, quiet! Love mine; have the 60-gallon & use it mostly with my sandblaster. Hope you love yours too. Thanks so much for the videos! Much appreciated!!
How did you know I was going to ask how you keep all those parts organized?
Kudos to you for rolling with the unexpected challenges!
I cant wait to hear it run
Hi Peat.
I rebuilt a M. D in high school.
1975.
It was fun watching you do the tear down.
I'll bet parts were easier to find then! If I had a time machine...
Enjoying your progress/adventure,very educational to me.
I Just Love it ! I wish I could help you , Once I retire that's my plan to re build My Dad's Old 62' Chevy C-10 Long Bed ! Good job Pete ! Taking it apart piece by Piece and cleaning and painting it !! is the only way to go ! giving me so great Idea's ! Thanks
I’ve been wanting to get a older backhoe and do this. Love the series.
I run into problems like this all the time when working on old trucks and tractors. Just have to keep working and you always find a way to fix the issue.
I honestly LOVE your channel and all that you do. Keep it up!
Pete,we all been there with the wrong parts,more than once for me,however you will adjust as we do,exchange and move on. I envy your challenge,I enjoy it also! See ya soon.
Tough break! Things were going so well. That's what i like about your channel. I always get new info or serious dad jokes. Lol 😇🤣👍💘
Thank you! You have a nice workshop. Just a friend, Ron
You have a very good channel. Thank you for posting.
Love the vice grip to hold the filter housing in the vice! Why didn't I think of that?
Enjoy your channel.
I'm across the lake from you in Romulus.
Lots of fun yes I've seen gasket maker used alot in places that only creates more problems because it migrates to holes that need be open. Just a thought copper washers if you heat red hot then quench in cold water makes them soft again to reuse. Good thing you noticed the sleeves that's what rebuilding is all about and parts manuals there the bible in taking apart and back together. I know my comments are long sorry I enjoy your videos. Thanks have a great day.
Interesting to watch the restoration going forward. I have a 1969 Massey Ferguson 175 on my small farm that I am considering restoring. The 175 and 656 look a lot alike.
Around 1959 I "helped" ( I was 20 y/o)an in-frame rebuild a WD-6 International engine which seems the same as you have. The head was cracked between the water jacket and small valve that isolated the gasoline start-up chamber and he had a new head already. He had a home made sleeve puller that bolted on the top of the block and pulled the sleeves up. After we got it all together and started it up steam came out of the crankcase breather. We took the head off and redid the head gasket but the same thing happened. The sleeve puller had broken into the side of the blocks cylinder wall. He take the block to a machine shop in Rochester Indiana that specialized in antique cars. They bored out that cylinder and create a tight sleeve and then put the regular sleeve in after that. That cured the problem but the tractor got demoted to stationary power from it's previous plowing and discing and ran for 30 years after.
The tractor was a "Wheatland" version, both short and narrow with the seat cantilevered behind the differential. It was a rough riding machine and wore wore you out because you had to hold on as it pitched about.
Alternate title: "Pete Encounters Sleeves That He Can't Fix With a Pair of Scissors"
That's hilarious! It applies to pant legs too!
New dad joke for his channel. Thumb's up!
Great Progress!!!!
Sorry to hear of the sleeve mishap, but Bates is a great company. I know they'll do everything they can to work with you. Hope you get it remedied soon so it can get sent off to the machine shop! Also - paint thinner is a VERY good degreaser. I soak parts in it quite often. Also helps remove old fuel varnish very easily.
Even though this is not a tutorial it's great just to look and learn how to see things that are not suppose to be. Thumbs Up.
Great video. A lot to think about with that engine.
Don't feel bad when my dad , me and friend of family heated garage plus head mechanic to rebuild engine on 1978 724 International tractor had a 72 hp 265 Cubic Inches 4 cylinders Desiel motor and gave in kit 824 seelves for cylinder plus head gasket was wrong and did get right parts dealer took wrong back too ! Also got a fix up work right to and that was back 1993 year too ! But agree shop manuals with pictures and information help out lots too ! Also excellent video too and very informative to help to!
Like I've heard said, Pete, "Ya don't know patience, till it's tested". Speaking to what you HOPED would fit in the engine and the reality of it NOT fitting. And, I'm so proud of you for maintaining that "can do" attitude of yours!! ;o)
I am not a mechanic by any sense of the word. I hate turning wrenches! However, I am enjoying watching this series. I admire your knowledge and in-depth job you are doing by explaining all the steps and parts of the process.
Good morning Pete
On our 1206, CarQuest uses the same filter in the primary and secondary.
CIH has the primary and secondary filters.
Wix has the primary and secondary filters.
A good tip is if you dont change the copper washers. Glow them with propane burner to soften them again
Thanks for another great video.
You should try to get some brass soft jaws for your bench vise so you don’t run the risk of putting marks in a part you are trying to clean. I love the this series keep the videos coming!
My dad used to say if was easy everyone would do it. Lol. That is going to be one real nice IH when it's done.
Hopefully your friends at the Machine Shop fiqure it out for you. Seems like theres always something to set you back on a big project. 👍
Some steel wool cleans up those glass sediment jars easily. I make photo copies of the pages that are pertinent to the parts that I am working on to ensure I don't damage or soil the original parts book or manual. Photos and your videos can be priceless when it comes time for reassembly.
Very cool work...👍👍
Thank you for sharing.
I always need tunes to do this kind of work. Too quiet. Another great video. Thanks Pete.
I used to like music in the shop but now I like the quiet. I guess I'm getting to be an old fart.
I'm do old I fart dust.
Its a tough job to farmer proof a tractor. That oil filter is called a partial filter it shunts a percentage of the oil through the filter, opposed to a full flow filter where it all gets filtered.
Don't forget to film at the machine shop - if they'll allow it.
Unfortunately when I asked them the response was, "We're a machine shop not a TV station." I like dealing with old tractor experts, but sometimes they can be a little rough around the edges.
@@JustaFewAcresFarm I think they're missing a trick there - never turn down free advertising!
My guess is the machine shop has all the work it wants.
@@JustaFewAcresFarm I'd never mention their name again. They could have received additional business with the free publicity.
Nothing wrong with that, I'd rather they do the work correctly than give good footage.
Pete, your amazing!!!. Aloha
If the extra sleeves are returnable, you’re ok even though you lost a few days. The road to satisfaction doesn’t come without a few bumps in the road
This was very informative thank you. Once on Dad's 560 Farmall I had it on the blower wide open then oil bypass failed and the oil filter blew right off. Yup, within seconds it needed to be overhauled. It was this event that caused me not to use Fram filters for a long time.
What a story! I cut apart a Fram filter and a Wix filter once to compare them. The Wix filter was made so much better than the Fram.
@@JustaFewAcresFarm how did you know that we switched to Wix filters?? You're good.
I bet someone mentioned this below but on the fuel filters, coarse filter upstream of the fine. 2 of the same won't do you any good unless you can bypass the first into the second. Great stuff, keep going!
Unfortunately, for a lot of old tractors, fine is all that's available now.
Good show
great video
When working with "Older" equipment and the OEM parts for it is not made any more, or they made little changes during the time it was in production, getting the right parts can be a pain. Or modifications have to be made to get it to work properly. Good luck, and keep the vids coming
When you've made your decision on which sleaves to use, make a note in your parts book for future reference. That way, if you or your son has to do this again later, you'll know what to get.
My dad was working on the washing machine for nth time. My mom wanted a new machine but my dad was frugal (cheap). So she took some random pieces from the garage and put them in the pile. New machine for her! Oh, try turning the Channelocks the other way.
THANK YOU
Now that is detailed cleaning. 👍👍Nice work.
Great to see the work that you are doing on this great RED FARMALL. Very interesting watching the progress as you go along. Good luck from an IHC FAN!!
Squatch 253 ran into this this sleeve issue not fitting into the block. They fixed this by honing the block cylinder bores to allow the liners to fit into the block. This appears to be a problem with the newer jobber liners.
GRATEFUL you are doing this.
copper does work harden, so not a bad idea to anneal crush washers if you are going to use again, just heat up red hot and quench in water and they will come out dead soft.
I fix helicopters for a living; my job isn't nearly as hard as this restoration!! You're very knowledgeable and quite skilled. I'm loving this series!
Hoping to somewhat model my (future) farm after yours.
Every project I ve done there's always something that goes wrong
I was just thinking of all the money you are saving by doing the majority of the labor yourself. Great job.
Brian is my go to guy I’m about 15 20 minutes from bates corporation
I see you too like to wear the grease as you work also. Seems whatever I do with messy dirty grease, I manage to get it on my face, nose, ears and neck. Then my wife has to tell me about it when I come into the house... I am surprised to see you just didn't remove an entire sleeve to see what you had. Chipping off edges can be very tricky as best. But I will witch this series to see how everything comes out... Thumbs Up!
I didn't show it in the video, but I did try to pull the sleeve using the usual method of a puck and allthread. It would not move, so I had to chip the top off.
You comment that you hate breaking off the sleeve edge in the way that you did and I agree it risks damage to the parent boor. A much easer way which we regularly used in the workshop was to turn the block upside down and with a block of wood and a hammer give the bottom of the sleeve a sharp smack. More often than not they will drop straight out on the floor. For any that refused to budge we would turn up a lipped alloy block to fit inside the boor and over the bottom lip we would either smack that or resort to the press.
Your comment about how much oil passes through the by-pass filter, it is normal for it to be 20% on each pass. This system is common in diesel engines.
Yes I tried the fitted puck and allthread sleeve pulling method first, but didn’t show it in the video. They wouldn’t budge. I put enough pressure on them to bow the 1/2” steel plate I had the allthread mounted to.
Hi Pete, why not send the block to the machine shop in the first place, and let them deal with the sleeves, hate to see a chisel being used anywhere near the head look what damage can be done, worked as a fitter for many years in England but never would use a chisel in such a critical area of any engine. Sorry to be so critical. Love all your videos and the best of luck with your rebuild. Happy New year to all the family 👪. Liam kilkee clare ireland. 🚙 😀🍀
Ever try using an Ultrasonic parts washer?? They can be another handy tool in your arsenal.
Yes I have one and mostly use it for carburetors and clock parts.
Our paths are parallel,except for the fact I'm re doing an H. It's like I'm doing the local advertiser crossword and you're doing the one in the NY Times .
Good video, I would have been afraid of the water bowl or the gas bowl. With my luck I would have dropped them.
Good luck
The 4-1/4” OD sleeves are for a D264 or D281 Block. Dollars to donuts the sleeves you have are 4-1/8 ID and 4-1/4 OD which makes 281 cubic inches. (450 farmall). There are also sleeves which are 4” ID and 4-1/8 OD, which makes 264ci in a 248 block. I don’t recall finding 3-7/8 ID x 4-1/8 OD sleeves available. (248ci.) I’ve been doing TONS of homework about the subject, I have a 450D in the shop with 3 cracked sleeves. It’s waiting it’s turn to be my next money pit. Also- I haven’t watched every video about the project yet, but have you had the head magnafluxed yet? It is most likely cracked. Mine is, I was quoted $1800 to fix it, but when I was still farming with it, it only put a few bubbles in the coolant, and didn’t cross contaminate oil and antifreeze, or use antifreeze. I think I’m just going to clean my head up and use it as is. Good luck, I’m watching your project with my fingers crossed, and a lot of interest for my own tractor.
Ya, go back in his videos; its cracked and it was brazed previously by someone and he thinks its OK but is having machine shop check it.
Hi Andrew, the first sleeves I got are 4" bore x 4 1/4" o.d., for a 264 engine out of a 400 or 450 (I forget which). The second set that's coming from Bates is 4" bore x 4 1/8" o.d. They have an MD part number, as later 264 c.i. sleeves & pistons were available for them, but they have a shorter lip on the top. I'm dealing with aftermarket (not NOS) parts here, so chances are the sleeves I have coming were made for the alternate head gasket design. Best of luck with your 450!
@@JustaFewAcresFarm Thankfully there seems to be a better aftermarket parts supply for the Gas start Diesels these last few years. I think the NOS supply dried up a while ago.
Fantastic video!
y husband has been enjoying your videos concerning you rebuilding your tracker!
Instead of grinding/wire-brushing off the rust and dirt, do it with electrolysis instead. Much easier, cleaner and does a great job without destroying any of the good metal. Also you may wish to contact Rice Equipment for Farmall Parts.
That's old tractor life
So important question is will the pistons you ordered going to fit both sleeves or do they require different pistons? Does the fire ring on the gasket make up the height required to keep compression ratio the same or will that be affected too?
Is there a kit to change the filters to spin on, for both fuel and oil?
Hey Pete your really starting to push the envelope! But that's still stationary.
I wonder if woodash would cleanup the carbon deposits on the glass fuel housing.
You should invest in a fairly good size ultrasonic cleaner. Well worth the money !! 😎👍
I have one.
Is there enough meat on either of the sleeve types that they could be machined to match the originals? Sounds a lot safer than machining the block and head.
Reusing copperrings which act like a gasket is absolutely not a problem.
Turn the upside down when you put it back together, so the copper gets the chance to settle a bit better.
If you can't find replacements,, just anneal them to soften, and they'll reseat perfectly, as long as there are no gouges.
I'm wondering how much oil ever went through that oil filter. Have you cut open the old filter to look for deposits? Not that something that has been on for years is ever the best guide.
Pete, will the main body of the sleeves fit in the parent bore? Why can't they just turn down what they need to on the upper part where the lip is? They should have a way of jigging it into a lathe or cylindrical grinder that they can turn the outer diameter of the lip down to fit, and cut in the lip as needed.
Pete,
I'm far from having a qualified opinion but I wonder if you might introduce too much pressure on the head gasket if you go with the flush mount vs the way it was? Maybe the gasket fitting around the top of the sleeve prevents head gasket failure with the higher compression of the diesel? Maybe I'm all wet too.