The WOMBO COMBO!....Winchester Defender .45 Colt & .410 Taurus Judge Self-Defense AMMO Test!
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Checking out the Winchester Defender .45 Colt / .410 Combo pack. Is it a good choice or just a prepackaged gimmick? Heavy clothing ballistic gel test using a Taurus Judge revolver!
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My Public Defender short barrel arrived today! I'm pretty much a nube to the shooting world, but watching a ton of videos to learn what I can. Ever since this gun was introduced, I've thought "wow, that would be awesome". I'm turning 67 next month, and finally can move financially from needs to wants.
I'm gonna have some safe fun before I expire like a 4 month old jug of milk. God Bless.
Whenever I see this Winchester defender tested i always have the same thought that they should load a 2nd type of this with just the disks,
If they got rid of the bb's and just had disks they could probably fit 6 disks into a standard 410 shell,
Obviously if the bb's hit the face or neck area they would be effective but I think having double the disks in the same size round would be much better,
Also the fpe on the 410 was pretty nice.
I agree completely
Gimmick or not I don't want to get shot with it lol. Great video as always thanks for your hard work keeping us informed about the ballistics of different types of ammo. Maybe that 45 would work better in a rifle.
Thank you sir. I need to try it out of a rifle for sure.😎👍
That's the ammo for the Judge!
Not a gimmick. These guns have a legitimate spot in almost every household. Could argue this makes more sense than a shotgun in most home defense situations
@@jbrown6030 Are you crazy, how on earth does this 410 make any more sense than even 20 gauge let alone 12. With the spread it’s virtually useless. Never mind the fact it’s 410. You’d be much better off using 45 colt in a regular revolver.
The spread is out of control compared to 12ga or 20ga buckshot while it would work it's more of a liability than your typical shotgun or handgun. Shot fired out of a rifled barrel even a short one like the judge doesn't perform well.
I'm glad to see you didn't destroy your chronograph!
Little too close for comfort.😆
I have a 6.5” judge as well. I keep it loaded with 3” .410s with 5 balls of 000 buckshot. You tested those shotshells a while back and they were very impressive. Always look forward to your videos. Thank you👍👍👍
Thank you sir. 😎👊
Thanks for testing! That .410 is the strongest recoiling that I've shot from my governor. .45 colt is typical of all the types I've tried.
Pretty big difference in the recoil between em for sure.
The Governor was made for that Federal 2 1/2 000. Pellets stay very close together.. and very manageable recoil...
I think the whole point of this shotgun load, and why Id buy it, Is simply because its essentially a do all for zombies, to dogs, snakes, etc. If you were in the Backcountry not sure what you may encounter.
This is one load that would work from a snake to a Zombie. Opposed to getting stuck w/ just Birdshot or just buckshot in your judge and then needing the opposite.
Great video as always. I have the stainless public defender my boys got me for my birthday when it first came out. Works really well on the raccoons and possums that get into things around my house. I just use small game loads, none of that high-priced ammo. I still have several hundred rounds from when it was only $7-$8 a box at Walmart.
A 225 grain .452" bullet that penetrates 22"+ is definitely lethal whether it expands or not.
Hard cast bullets are designed to not expand and penerrate deeply. They are typically ideal for danderous game. Truth us, many hollowpoint bullets fail to expand reliably when clogged with denim or clothing.
Thank you Brother for taking the time to make this video for us! Enjoy the weekend!
You too!😎👊
The .45 Colt load was so-so, no expansion and over penetration but it is a .45 cal. diameter projectile so it still did a lot of damage. As far as the 410 goes, the best defensive load from the Taurus and S&W revolvers is the buckshot loading. It has five 000 pellets and Winchester makes it, others may as well. Thanks for the tests and another excellent video.
I think if you want to use 45 Colt as a defensive pistol, you have two options.
You can use "Ruger/Thompson Only" loads, but better make sure your pistol can handle the pressures. The old Vaqueros, Blackhawk, and 454 Casull basically. The New Vaqueros and New Model Blackhawk can't handle it.
Your other option is to use lead hollow points that are softer than these bonded/jacketed rounds and will expand at lower speeds.
Just to trigger the judge crowd im saying its a lousy shotgun and a mediocre revolver 😂 fight me
🤣🤣🤣
I'm a member of the judge crowd! And you're right-- that's exactly what it is! And it's a lot of fun lol
I had a Circuit Judge for a while and those were my thoughts exactly. It does two things but neither one it does well.
Slightly better than a sharp stick
@@wadelucero6461Oh yeah? Can a sharp stick break after light use and take 5 months to be repaired under Taurus's warranty program? Didn't think so 😂
The .45 Colt gave us an average velocity at 50 yards of 815 feet per second, which gives us an average 50-yard kinetic energy of 331 energy foot pounds. Energy-wise, that's nothing to sneeze at.
We did get some 50-yard numbers for the .410 (4 of the 5 gave readings). The 4-shot average at 50 yards was 581 feet per second. As near as I can tell, the total payload of the .410 load should be somewhere around 323 grains (each defense disc weighs about 70 grains, each of the 12 lead BBs should weigh around 9.42 grains for a total of 113 grains, 70x3 = 210 + 113 = 323 grains). If that mass was all together at 50 yards, we'd be looking at a Ke50 of 242 energy foot pounds.
But that's not how shot works. Since it spreads out, you would need to calculate the energy of each individual projectile. So, each defense disc would have a Ke50 of 52 energy foot pounds, and each lead BB would have a Ke50 of 7 energy foot pounds.
Of course, Winchester didn't exactly design the .410 PDX1 ammunition with the expectation that anyone would be using it at 50 yards, so all that fun math is just that: fun math.
I had a hard time deciding what numbers to use for the energy on the .410.😆
Holy kinetic spreadsheets batman! (By the way I was the guy today that stopped in to use the gun range today at Medlock Gun store) Sooo hopefully I got the right person, or if not well you got a reply comment!
@@TheCrewChief374 You got the right person.
Happiest December wishes! Great test as always.
Thank you, brother. Same to you!😎👊
Gimmick it may well be.....but it looks to be a reasonably effective gimmick! That .410 did a number on the block, and I expect it would work quite well for personal protection at close ranges, like inside an apartment, or the cab of a truck.
The .45 colt, while it didn't expand (Overpenetration is a concern with that round), is a huge hole with a deep impact. That would still be quite effective, might be a good idea if you're in the woods and worried about hostile wildlife.
😎👊
Could be a gimmick, I have had two various judges, sold both but bought only to buy a third, in the raging judge 454. Why, it is accurate and good for many things. Federal 000 is extremely tight and great for self defense, but a 454 HP is manageable and fantastic. I can reload 45 colt and 454 too as well as use rifled barrel inserts and fire anything from a 22, 38, 357, and 9mm out of it in a 3 inch barrel insert. Depending on what I am doing, from bunny hunting to home defense to 454 bear, it is accurate at logical defense distances, and can handle 65,000 psi pressure to the same pressures of a 460 and handle hot 454 rounds with minimal pain. It is by far the most fun as well as to me “practical firearm. Will I go after a deer at 100 yards regardless of bullet type no, but I can hit a 10 inch target at 50 yards with fixed sights every single time. 6 rounds, hand load and it is affordable to shoot in hot 45 colt or 454.
@@stevenhorwood1300 Well, like I said: Might be a gimmick, but it's an EFFECTIVE gimmick, so you won't find me speaking poorly of it.
Well, that wasn't too impressive a performance out of that .45 Colt, but I enjoyed this video and the information it gives.
I haven't bought any of that Winchester Defender combo pack, but I probably would get some if I found it locally, just because .410 and .45 Colt are so hard to come by.
The tool I have for .45 Colt/.410 is one I've commented on before, my Bond Arms Grizzly Bear. Because I bought that primarily to be my snake gun on camping trips, I typically use #9 shot in it. Like I said, though, I'm always kinda looking out for either .45 Colt or .410 shotshells.
I do have an additional barrel for the Grizzly, one chambered in 9mm. My pocket carry is my GX4, but seated and buckled into my truck, it's devilish hard to get to that micro9 in my pocket (I'm left-handed, BTW). So the Bond Arms Grizzly rides in the compartment on the door, making it easier to get to than my GX4. And in truck gun configuration, I mostly use the 9mm barrel, so my carry ammo is the same for both pistols, which is convenient.
Makes sense. 😎👍
I "roll my own" on cartridges. I loaded the 45-colt hot and was very disappointed in the performance. When I shoot this from my Ruger Vaqueros, it's about 300 fps faster than out of my 6-inch Judge like you have. But when I use the Winchester like you have, the velocity is awesome, just like the performance. Odd, but this backs up your tests.
Thanks for the review of the Judge and the combo-pack. .45 LC's have a lot less recoil than shot shells. Herter's 2.5" slugs at 1,830 FPS have the most recoil and are the most accurate in a rifle but are scarcer than hen's teeth. The Turkish-made slugs are much slower and not as accurate though. I think .410 ammo's the most expensive now compared to 12, 20, even 16 ga. Thanks again, it's nice to see videos on the .410 bore.
Tools you and Paul from Heavy Metal are the best at telling if something is wrong with any kind of ammo or weapon that’s why I enjoy watching you both
Appreciate that, brother.😎👊
That .45 Colt ended up exactly .450". Reminder that .45 Colt fires a .452" bullet. That's right. The bullet failed so spectacularly that it actually got SMALLER. 😂
Looks like the Muzzle Flip is more with the 410
Definitely
Please compare the federal ooo to the less than federal brands. The flight control just holds a nice pattern for various uses. Basically 4 38cal size pellets per round in a nice tight pattern is pretty nice. Penetration tests show it exceeds FBI ballistic standards. I just like wheel guns after 37 plus years of having to carry many forms of pistols over the years. Revolvers just seam to work every time the trigger is pulled regardless of dirt, dust, limp wrist, weak hand, strong hand, they just work every single time. Yes, something to say about suppressive fire, but we are accountable for every round. I just found your videos and quickly subscribed.
Nice results, even if they were unexpected, Tools. Say what you will, 410 hater or lover, that 410 round would definitely be a very nasty round to get hit by. The bb's alone would be a big hurt factor, then add in the 3 disk and you most likely won't be getting back up. As for 45 colt, even though it didn't expand, that's a big heavy nasty round to get hit by. Just depends on where you get hit.
Either way I prefer to stay on the sending end of either of these rounds.
Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
Yessir. Lots of holes being poked by this stuff.😎👊
The BBs are a marketing gimmick. Duplex loads in general are
Jerry Miculek did a youtube upload called "The Governor has Returned"....at 3:33 he tests the Federal 000 buckshot load at 12 feet...That's the optimum round for that gun...and very interesting to watch it in slow motion...
hello,it's papa's again. I've been commenting lately about the rossi brawler 45colt/ 410 single shot pistol testing. the reload data I'm about t0 share is for educational purposes only. no one should try this because it could hurt you or kill you. now my latest west is with cfe pistol powder. 9.8gr 870fps 420 ftlb .10 gr 964fps 516 ftlb
10.2 gr 1034 fps 581 ftlb,10.6 gr1094 fps 664ftlb. 11.0 gr 1132 fps 771ftlb. No problems. For hunting I'll probably use 10.2 gr of this powder fir hunting and if necessary self defense. I repeat this data is for educational purposes only. I about forgot the test bullets hunter supply 452.dia 250 gr lrn hp.papa wishing you well
This was definitely a great freedom seed test brother tools. I don't have any tools that takes either one of these freedom seeds.
Those 410 defense rounds are a handful in the polymer judge
This is where the Federal 000 4 pellet shines...Whatever propellant they use...it moves the pellets out at more than a reasonable velocity,, yet at the same time provides significant recoil manageability...My Governor goes out with 3 in the front,, and 3 .45 Colt in the back..The Federal pellets stay together like The Blue Angels out to about 15-20 feet...so the .45 Colts are just along for the ride..
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Hardest working man on youtube! Love the vids bro!!!
I wouldn't have tried that mixed shot through a standard chrono. I hate having to replace shiit when I screw it up
I always underestimate the spread of this stuff.😆
Winchester should be ashamed for putting that junk out in the market! Dont care for those guns! Im even on the fence with a 45 colt lever rifle but have seen very impressive performance with hand load 45 colt. Have no interest in 410 at all lol! but you have done some nice 410 tests! Happy Friday and Dec 1! 💥💥
Thank you sir. Too much weak .45 Colt out there for sure.
I don’t see a single thing that can be done with a Judge/Governor revolver that can’t be done better AND more efficiently with another tool. In my own opinion, its only redeeming quality is its novelty. But there is value in having tools that make us happy.
It's definitely different.
6:00 Interesting; the box for this Nosler 40 S&W ASP ammo says it will get me 404 ft-lbs,,,,,,,,,,, and that .45 long colt only racked up 360 ?! You would think with all that extra casing the 45LC would be able to do better.
I'm really curious as to what the ballistics and results would be from the Taurus Home Defender with that 13 inch barrel.
I gave up on factory 45colt. Started to load my own, Standard Pressure for my Pietta 5.5 and Ruger only for my Blackhawk 7.5 hard cast 200gr and 250gr. What a difference. A bit less $$. Thanks
How fast can you get that 250gr moving? Out of curiosity
My starting SP PIETTA loads 250 from 925 - 950 , with Ruger only in Blackhawk I've got 1100- 1250. However the 200gr Ruger only 1232- 1289. I've more recipes to work on. Still a newb
Hot shit. At 1250 that's really trucking. Gotta love to hand load
They really load .45 Colt way too light.
@MijitB ,hey find Jesse B Outdoors . Jesse just did a loading review on Ruger only had FPS W/ 250gr @ 1500 pluss. From his Ruger Blackhawk Bisley. Lots of boom
Thanks for a great test. I’d like to see you test the federal 000 buckshot in that 6 1/2 inch bad boy! And Hornady critical defense 410 load. I use a XTP 45 long coat in mine also in hand loads!😊
Very interesting ammo test Tools,but I'll say the 45colt needs more speed..👊🇺🇸
Yep. More spice needed.💥🌶💥
The Taurus Judge is for some what Derringers are for me, impractical, but not completely useless.
I have a six inch judge too and I love it great ammo test hope to see more
Please get the 2 new ones, the Brawler and Home Defender
Not what I expected from that .410 say what you will about it but imagine getting hit with that in a SHTF scenario. Without medical intervention to get all of those projectiles out problems would develop quickly. Love the content as always Tools
Thank you sir.😎👊
I was looking for you in the gundies. I wish I could put you in there. You do the comparisons I like.
I agree on the disk, I want to get one of those tool’s
Nice test! I love your videos! I don't think I'd ever own one of these things but it's cool to see what they do anyway. Wouldn't want to get shot by one that's for sure
I’m itching to get a Taurus Judge just like that one… too bad this year hasn’t been great for my pew pews… great video as usual.
Thank you sir. Enjoy the weekend.😎👊
Interesting test. The.410 does better than I thought it would
I enjoy watching the video, even if I'm not interested in the subject.
Appreciate that.😎👊
Another great ammo test. I was out today ammo shopping looking for that 380 underwood ammo you tested a few weeks back.
That's some good stuff.😎👊
45 colt is a fantastic round. Expecting expansion from normal loads is pure folly. The colt did exactly what the cartridge was designed for. It was never intended for fancy expanding bullets. So dont blame the cartridge, blame the ammo companies for scamming people with fancy expensive bullets that dont do what they claim they will do.
Yep
Please test underwood .45 colt maximum expanders! Out of this judge and a smaller one 😁
Well that colt might as well be a hard cast. If they spiced them up a little they might have a chance to open up. I have a 3” judge but it was just to say I own one. I don’t think I would carry it. But there might be that magic load out there that changes my mind. Great test as always good sir. 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Yeah, need more go juice for sure.😎👊
👍👍 Thanks Tools. I wanted a judge when they came out but every video I’ve ever seen on them has been underwhelming and disappointing. They just don’t do anything really well. Still though I can understand someone buying one just for fun.
Sure appreciate the solid demo. I reckon both would be very effective at appropriate range. The 45 Colt might be a concern for over penetration. But they are still 45 caliber. It would be good out of a 16" or 20" lever gun. Thank you.
Wondering what it will take to get the .45 to expand now.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargetsthat bullet under a 454 Casull loading. Lol
lol given a choice between a Taurus judge and a rock I'd be tempted to pick the rock. don't you have a Taurus Rossi Circuit Judge? might have been interesting to throw that into the mix just for the entertainment value
When Taurus first introduced this tool It was a shorter bbl, So I was curious, 45 LC no problem, but what does the rifling do with, say #8 shot? If you can get the right size buckshot, that fits the bore tight, then the spin on the buckshot would perfect and accurate, what are your thoughts on this? Also If I want to send you some freedom seeds to test, then how do I go about this? THX Brian. 👍🇺🇸
The buckshot I tested seemed to hold a lot tighter spread than these BB's for sure. You can use the physical address where my PO Box is. I can give it to ya in email if you want.😎👊
That 410 would make a good defense round if that it what you use, very good test, thanks for sharing
Thank you sir.😎👊
The wifey has the Judge in the short barrel. The only rounds we have for it is Hornady's version. It's only purpose is for snakes. She's ascaired of 'em. Thing is we only have garden snakes in a small supply.
Good test. I know not to get that .45 package.
Thank you sir. I think those Hornady Triple Defense are much better than these Winchester.😎👍
I keep 2 of those and 3 of the federal 3" 000 buck in my judge
Gimmick stuff, from a gimmick gun, but that's what makes it fun. 😂
Yep
should retry this test with the circuit Judge
Gonna have to and see if the .45 expands.😎👍
Tjats a mighty tame load for a 45 colt.
You should really test the 45 colt maximum expansion ammo from underwood. They expand 2 inches.
Seems any ammo that has Defense in the name is a gimmick to make folks think they got something. That 45 LC was a complete dud. That 410 ammo got the job done I guess. I'd rather have a 410 with buck shot and a real 45 LC. Glad those BBs didn't hit your chrono.
Agreed. They sure had me worried.😆
Another good jelly test Tools thanks for doing them Stay Safe Stay 2A Strong 🇺🇸
That was a circus 🤹♂️ 🤣 that combo of rounds! Though I think it could be better, I wouldn't want to stand in front of it.
😂😂😂
Even if it is lethal the judge is a massive package for 5 rounds. Way better wheel gun options out there.
Dagum Tools, everytime I see you use a Judge I 😅want one just to have fun with.
It is a cool gun to have just to have it.😎👊
Good test Tools interesting results 410 ok 45 not so well. Thanks Tools interesting info.
Thank you sir. Appreciate ya!😎👊
If nothing else those .410s would at least scare the devil out of someone
That Federal 2 1/2 000 goes out and stays together like The Blue Angels at 15 or 20 feet...it's a little more than scare..
Mhmm
Thanks for your video. Pretty much what I suspected from a .410. I consider it marginal for bunny rabbits out of a 26" barrel. lol Some people swear by the cartridge though.
If I lived in snake country the Judge would make sense to me. At get off me range I’m sure it would be a potent tool. At anything over close range you’re going to have stray BB’s going where you don’t want them to. I’m sure it would be fun to shoot, but it hasn’t interested me. Thanks for the video Tools!
The Judge does a niche market for those living in an apartment. Less likely of hitting your neighbor using 410.
Hey man i dont know if you have done this yet and i cant find it but could you do a head to head on Difiant munitions 9mm TCX vs G2 research Civic duty?? Battle of the copper expanders!! Please let me know if you can do this, thanks!!
Hot dang! It’s Jelly-time y’all!!
Interesting video, but I just don't understand those 410/45 colt revolvers. I mean, what's the point? What advantage do they offer? I don't get it.
That the fender is crucial I never seen no damage like that
Can U test the shockwave 59..410the judge poly,the home defender together,thank you
Upsmash, happy feet... THE WOMBO COMBO! That ain't Falco.
Another nice one for the books! Good job!😅
Thank you sir.😎👊
I was worried about that chrono I figured it might catch some of the 410 bb’s
It came close.😆
Hmm ... two types of ammo. So is the intent to alternate chambers with each? Interesting but no sale. Great test.
The Judge owner on the marketing team must have came up with it.😆
Id say the 410 is a defender and the 45 could just be a pretender😅. Always enjoyable 👍👍
Dangit that would have been a great jelly time quote!😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets feel free to use anytime 😄👍
Great video man, as usual!
Thank you sir.😎👊
All the Judge haters would piss themselves if granny pulled one out and started waving it around judging their poor attitudes!
🤣🤣🤣 💥👵💥
What kind of velocity would that 45 colt need to expand proper ?
Went to Academy today only half the ammo on the shelf
😆
Very disappointment in the 45 Colt. Even out of a long barrel Judge. The 410 was the winner. Great test. Thank you.
i wonder how they would do on the new rossi brawler
That there was and is a 75 yard shot Y’all!!!!
Apparently just a box of fun for the range. 👍👊🤣
Yep
I've seen several tests with these Winchester .410 things, it's always a big nope. Someone relying on the advertising hype might be sadly disappointed in a real life situation. Sure, it'll mess them up, it might just take a while for the neutralizing effect to work
This puts the Red Ryder to shame and Black Bart better watch out for these rounds. Thanks for testing these Tools! ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇲🏁🇮🇱🇺🇦🔱🌻🏵️💮🌸🌼🌺🏴☠️🏹
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people are walking on the lakes where i live... i think it's a bit early, but you do you....
😆😆😆
That .45 Colt round was a little disappointing but that said, I sure as hell wouldn't wanna be on the receiving end. I guess even a mediocre or worse performing big ol' hunk of lead beats a mediocre performing smaller bullet.
ER doctor would prefer you use the 45 Colt to save cleanup. The Judge Executive model is a nice model. Maybe a 5 shot model with short cylinder/45acp with moon clips & a 2.75in barrel. Add a set of rosewood handles & name it The Baliff. 💥👍🙏
😂😂😂
@@ToolsandTargetsIts a wonder ER doctors haven't ganged up with a lawsuit to ban certain ammo that spreads or fragments. I'm in favor of a load that lets someone skip the ER & go straight to the morgue! 😂😂
The Judge makes a good range toy fun gun but it's a terrible choice for home or personal defense. Pair it with this Winchester ammo and you'd be better off throwing an angry Chihuahua at the bad guy 😂.
Federal is the best 410 for the judge in my opinion some others are ok but those bbs are senseless
Not a fan of the judge for this reason ..410 did good tho ..great test tools
Thx for your work 👍 🎯 🗽 carry on 🔫 🇺🇸
Once again? Winchester cut the serrations on the bullets way too short.
Looks like those .410's are kinda decent. Not much people have faith in a .410 for self defense or SHTF/WROL but they think they can carry 1,000 12 gauge slugs and 3 days worth of food in their bug out bag 🤣
In my opinion the judge is just a conversation piece lol
It definitely gets some comments.