2008 4x2 Hi-Rider dualcab. Had terrible shaft vibration at 45-60km/h. Rebuilt 3 x uni's and centre bearing. Dropped centre bearing mount to ensure shafts were parallel and fillled centre bearing bush with silicone to soak up remaining frequency. Thankyou ! Worked a treat.
Brilliant mate . I’ve just had new suspension with airbags installed in a old PJ Ranger right through . I’m now sure this is exactly what is happing in mine especially that launch shudder you speak of. 👍👍
thankyou mate. recently had centre bearing replaced and had massive vibration, checked orientation and theyd installed it upside down. quick fix but massive difference
Mazda told me that is how it is and put up with it. One thing to note is the T6 platform that these Utes are built on has a natural tendency to vibrate anyway it’s sort of feels like the chassis is flexing up and down while you’re driving down the road. Having a driveline vibration magnifies this. My vibration would cut in and stay there from 35 km an hour all the way through to 110 KPH. Now the vibration comes and goes due to road surface conditions. One thing to note if you have am mud tires on the vehicle this will make the vibration worse also, I ended up changing back to a all-terrain tyre as I mainly drive up and down the highway now.
Afternoon Phil. I have been heading down the same long dusty trail you did but I hope your video has saved me from the dead end of it. I got onto you and your fix video from a lake mac driveline shop. So my 19 ranger has a slight take off shudder also after my 2 inch lift and I have the center bearing drop already installed. I’m going to invest some time over the weekend to perform the phase alignment . I’m super excited for the result of no vibration. Fingers crossed So to clarify I need to have front and rear shafts at exact degrees. And the rear shaft phase aligned Thanks
Yes that’s correct. Looking at the tail shafts from a side view you want to run them with next to 0° operating angle on the centre universal joint, Like I try to explain in the video if the front Shaft is for example 7° down the second shaft needs to be 7° down from the side view and phasing the tail shaft like it is a one piece shaft so pretend there is no uni in the middle. Remember that your diff pinion angle has to be the same angle as the angle down on the gearbox companion flange otherwise you will still have a vibration. So if the gearbox Companion flange is down 3° you need to tilt opinion so it is tilted up 3°. In the description section and of the video I have a link to the Spicer Drive line book which explains things very well. Remember this is a good setup for a constant load in the vehicle has varying loads will change the angle of the second Drive Shaft due to the compression of the spring pack. Let us know how you go
Excellent in depth video. I have a 50mm lift, and have had vibration since. Dropped centre bearing, and have wedges to go in. Was going tho put them in so high end was towards the back. So angle was raised up, but note your comments about facing down. Will give them a go one day, but worried about knocking leaf pin out to put them in. I have longer bolts to replace them with.
Hi mark in the video I got the in stall info for the wedges around the wrong way( had been working on a landCruiser drive line vibration that week I did the vid so wedges go in the other way around compared to spring over Ford) So to tilt your pinion down you need to put the thicker part of the wedge to the front and to tilt the pinion up you need to put the thicker part of the wedge to the rear. Most Castor wedges that you buy have a hole that is big enough in them that fits around the centre pin so there is no need to undo the centre bolt, I normally get castor wedges machined up with a 10 mm hole so I can bolt them to the spring pack and stop them from getting spat out later on if the u bolts loose off a bit. The easiest way to undo the centre bolt without all the leaves going everywhere is to place G clamps on the front and rear of the spring pack or the way I prefer to do it which is to put ratchet straps around the chassis and leaf Packs, with the ute on the ground put the ratchet straps around both left and right sides and front and rear of diff tube (you will need 4 straps in total and the normal 25 mm wide good quality ones will be enough, just put the two hooks together) when putting straps around the chassis make sure you’re not squashing any brake lines or what, tension up the ratchet straps so there is no slack in them. Depending on what type of castor wedge you have, if it’s one you can drop in over the centre bolt you can simply loosen off the u bolts enough on both sides and Jack the car up by the towbar and this will allow the axle to drop away from the spring pack and allow you to insert the castor wedges in the gap between the spring perch and the spring pack. If you are going to bolt the castor wedges to spring pack jack up of the ute under the rear differential, remove u bolts both sides, rear tyres and lower shock mount bolts, Place axle stands under the chassis on both sides and lower back onto axle stands. Once resting safely on the axle stands you can continue to lower the differential housing and the ratchet straps will stop the leaf springs from dropping any further and hold The packs together. Just watch you don’t stretch the brake lines, ABS and electric differential lock wiring, dropping the spare tire down and out of the way is a must and will make it a lot easier to see what’s going on. When dropping Axel housing the pinion will want drop down but it should be caught by the binding of the universal joint on the tail shaft. When you have about 25mm of clearance between the Spring purchases and the leaf packs you can push the right hand side of the axle housing forward and the left-hand side rearwards, This will allow you to drop the centre bolt all the way out and install your castor wedges. Don’t forget to fix up the phasing of the universal joints( like I explained in the video) this is the main cause of the vibration. Hope the above is of some use to, would love to know how it works out
Hi Phil, thank you for the video very informative that's for sure. One part I don't understand is from the gearbox to the short shaft you mentioned that is 1deg. .my gearbox is at 4deg then to 9deg on the first shaft, 8.5 from bearing to diff and diff is at 8.9. I'm still getting vibration like crazy can't drive over 80kms.
Hi bill just so I’m reading your angles right. You have 4deg down on the output flange of the gear/ transfer case and 8•9deg up on your pinion flange this is your problem it needs to be 3 to 4 degrees up not 8•9deg up. You need to put the caster wedge with the thick part towards the front to drop the pinion down( I said it the wrong way around in the video as I had spent that week working on a land cruiser driveline vibration my bad when I get better I’m going to redo video)imagine both companion flanges need to run parallel to each other from the side view to keep the uni at the same angle. After dropping the pinion down you may need to re-shim the centre bearing to get the driveshaft angles the same again. Don’t forget to re-phase the differential universal joint to be in the same phase as the gearbox universal joint otherwise you will still have the vibration. This is explained in the video. Any more questions don’t hesitate to ask.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thank you so much.. I will order some 5deg casters from snake racings as they are the only ones hat have 5deg.. and if that doesn't fix it I will definitely go the same path as you and get the tailshaft fitted with cardan joint..
@@billcetin3983 at 8.9deg pinion angle I’m thinking you have extended shackles? As most sit at 4 to 5 degrees. The double cardan shaft was worth the money. I here from owners of the new MY2023 ranger that ford included the drive line vibration from factory to. Let me know how it turns out
This vibration has been bugging me since new and it is significantly worse with the 50mm lift. Mazda would have you believe it's a feature not a fault in design. Anyway it looks like you did some detailed research and I will definitely give it a shot 👍
@@philsrandomstuff2392 First a little background on the BT50. I have a 50mm lift and and a centre bearing drop kit already installed that has helped a bit with vibrations at highway speeds but it left a severe pulse in the drive line at around 30kph no matter how it was adjusted. Well this morning I figured I would re-phase the shaft and much to my surprise the low speed pulse is virtually gone. Now it's not perfect, however I still need to adjust the pinion angle slightly and lower the centre bearing another .5deg but I could live with it as is that's for sure. So overall I will give you two thumbs up on this one Phil thanks for the video. 👍👍
@@andrewcarroll9148 thanks for letting me know how it turned out, l’m glad it made a difference. I had to install 2deg caster wedges (thick part to front of Ute) this gave me 2.7deg pinion up to match the gear box 3deg down. Running the tail shaft dead straight like you have made my vibration about a 93% gone. ARB sell caster wedges
I brought mine a year ago and it was already lifted and Iv done so many things to get ridr of it with no luck. It's been balanced, Iv replaced the centre bearing. Those center bearing sucks but over it. Ford engineering is done by children, I also put new tyres on, wheels balanced and also have a new clutch put in and the clutch plate machine , also put that shim kit in on the bearing at different heights and the rear diff has those wedges put in and still didnt help and they should just add this to the class actions that will happen soon enough. B Hopefully this will help when I'm done watching
Tail shaft weights to stop resonance were available at dealers for the Falcon . Ford produce terrible tail-shafts . Has been this way since EA Falcon . PJ PK center bearing has insufficient threads for many produced .
Hello! English is not my native language, so im struggling a bit in understanding everything. To sum up, i shoud: disassemble the slip joint, leave both ends of the shaft leveled, put back in the slip joint, put a center bearing spacer and slot the mounting tags a bit to slide the center bearing a bit to the drivers side (or in my case, the non driver side as I’m from Chile)
Hi Felipe English is my first language and I’m not very good at it. I think you’re doing better than me. If you are trying to run the tail shaft in a dead straight line which I’m guessing is that what you asking me about. You need to space the centre bearing down so when looking at the vehicle from the side view there is no angle or very little working angle in the centre bearing universal joint so if the front shaft is 7° down the rear shaft should be as close as possible to 7° down from the side view. Any more than one degree working angle and you will have a vibration. Do not worry about slotting the centre bearing mount , It helps but it’s not worth the effort as long as you have less than 1° working angle from the side view on the centre universal joint it’s not worth the worry to slot the centre bearing over. You need to phase the differential universal joint the same as the gearbox universal joint. Search on UA-cam how to phase universal joints in that’ll all explain what to do, but basically you are pulling the bottom tail shaft out of the slip joint and rotating at 90° to its original position. The other thing to take into account is pinion angle on the differential, if the gearbox is 3° down on the universal joint mounting flange your differential needs to be parallel to that so it has to be 2° 3° up. Hopefully this helps if you’re still unsure please message me back
This is a great video, I have a 2012 PX 3.2 4x4 manual . I have a vibration in the tail shaft at about 1200 rpm when I shift into 3rd gear . If I run the revs over 1500 its not too bad but I don't want to shift to second on all corners. There is no vibration noticeable at 50 kph and over I have changed the unis, greased the splines , phased the t unis and have the shafts in as straight a line as possible with about 1/2 degree vertical difference between the 2 shafts by use of the spacer kit. The pinion angles are equal between the diff and transfer case. I am not the first owner so am not sure what the lift is . No matter what I try it doesn't seem to make any difference. Very frustrating .
Hi Alastair I’m not 100% sure on what type of centre bearing on the earlier utes had, but it’s unlikely that it’s the Source of your vibration I only added the nylon insert just to take the final bit of vibration out of the tail shaft, this vibration only happened when you hit Bumps At speed the nylon insert just helped stabilise the shaft it didn’t really need it. So from what I’m reading above is that you have set it up in a straight line with the universal joints rephased I would suggest that the tail shaft probably needs Balancing. Every time I move something around in a tail shaft you can affect the balance. You can take your now re-phase tail shaft to a driveline shop and have it balanced and checked for straightnesses or you can dynamically balance the tail shaft on the vehicle there is several UA-cam videos about this just search by dynamic tail shaft balancing. The reason why I went to a double carden in joint was I still could not get all the vibration out the new tail shaft fixed this problem altogether, but costs a bit to do.
Phil I love this video I have vibrations when towing the camper a droning sound followed by vibration. Car has front Bullbar on stock suspension. Where can I go to get this fixed. Would a regular mechanic know about this?
Not many people know much about how to fix drive line vibrations, thats why I made this video. Any good mechanic should be able to fix it if they watch this video. Remember some times it’s not the drive shaft but something else like flat spots on tyres and the like, yours does sound like drive shaft by the description you give though.
Hi Phil, brilliant review. I have a 2017 BT-50 purchased with a 2" lift kit. At low low speed 3-5klms/hr I get a weird shudder or vibration both slowing down and take off, but it feels from the front end. Does your prop shaft evaluation also apply to the front prop shaft or have you witnessed front prop shaft issues with BT's, rangers, everest etc. Appreciate any comment/advise. Cheers Steve
It’s unlikely that it is the front driveshaft as it uses constant velocity joints, so no phasing issues with the front driveshaft on these vehicles, unless you have a front differential drop, that puts the CV joint at a very steep angle at the differential or something worn out With my vehicle, I had the same shudder that you have which in my caused was caused by the rear driveshaft. On my vehicle, it felt like I had a flat front tire or flat spots on the front tires. After getting the driveshaft sorted this shudder went. Please remember that vibrations through the vehicle can be caused by many things like the type of tyres you run or a out of balance /bent rim. This is why it’s important to run a vehicle up on axle stands and measure the vibration with a jar with water in it. If you have a driveline vibration, the water will vibrate in the jar. If you have a tire problem, you will not get any vibration. Check out some videos on UA-cam on dynamic balancing tailshaft on vehicle to get an understanding of the process. Running the tail shaft in a straight line like I show on my video as it is something that once changed is very easy to put back to stock with no cost at all except for cast of wedges under the axle housing. Do you have any more questions? Please do not hesitate to ask. This is something that takes time and effort to sort out and not a five minute fix.
Gday Phil awesome video mate!? Quick question - you stated you have orientated your 1 deg leaf spring caster wedge is installed thick end towards front of car would this not push the pinion flange down not up? When I installed mine the thick end had to be at rear of vehicle to allow the pinion flange to point up 3 deg.
Good pick up, sorry stuff up there. If you are running the standard tail shaft as I described ( with no bend in the middle uni )yes you will need to put the caster wedges the way you have them ( thick part to the front ) to drop the pinion companion flange ie from 5deg up to 3deg up.
Hey mate, i have a vibration at 70kph+, and for the life of me i cannot find where it is coming from!!. My car is still standard height but carries a fair bit of weight in the back and sags a little in the back.. The vibrations started without any sort of warning, a seams to be worse when everything is up to temp... I have checked unies, center bearing and have had tyres and wheel alignment done. My next thought was to remove the harmonic balancer on the diff and go from there. I would be interested to know if they are known to fail or if i should be looking else where.. If you could point me in the right direction that would be awsome..... Cheers Mate!!
Yes I did try to stiffen up the centre bearing. But the urethane was to stiff. The gear box moves around a lot and it was placing to much load on the centre bearing. That is why I put a nylon ring in the centre bearing housing to help hold the shaft central but still allow it to kick when the gear box/ engine lifts under load.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 hey thx for the reply.. you're saying the centre bearing was stressed coz it couldn't freely change operating angle? And the nylon ring potentially reduces the skipping rope effect by keeping it centred? How thick is the ring? Did it make much difference? I'm chasing a low frequency driveline shake. Can see the diff pinion nodding like crazy when its doing it. Feels like clutch shudder (but its not). Standard suspension. Cheers
@@Huskydog78 with my Mazda it had a similar sort of low frequency vibration with the stock suspension to. I didn’t address this until I lifted it as I knew the vibration would get worse with increased suspension lift. In my experience Making the centre bearing stiffer didn’t fix the problem of the vibration, it all has to do with the out of phasing of the differential u joint , Pinion angle and Drive Shaft angles. Stiffening the centre bearing up got rid of about 2% of my vibration, but as I know every vehicle is different so the nylon ring that I put in the centre bearing is approximately 25 mm thick and I’m sorry I can’t remember the internal and external the measurement the dimensions, You will notice a rubber castellated section around the actual bearing. I made the inside diameter of the nylon insert the same as the outside diameter is this so it just helps support the centre bearing.To save money I originally made the nylon ring out of two pieces of half inch cutting board(used a jigsaw to cut the cutting board up) and self tappers to hold the two pieces together once in the centre bearing housing, that way I could put a slit in the rings so I could slip it over the tail shaft without having to disassemble the tail shaft and offset the splits in the two nylon rings so I could test if it made any difference. If your opinion is nodding up and down it is definitely a phasing issue of the tail shaft but it’s hard to say as I’m not looking at your car. If you set up the tail shaft like I explain in my video which is running both tail shafts at the same angle and re-phasing the differential your joint to be the same phase as a gearbox u joint you will have a nice smooth running tail shaft, remember if this doesn’t work you can always and put it back to the way it was. If you believe it is the centre bearing have a look at the Ranger raptor it uses A better supported tail shaft centre bearing and this might fit in a standard Ranger
Yep Welcome to STRAAYA where the professional tail-shaft suspension so called experts dont know shit and a average Joe shows and explains how shits meant to work.....awesome presentation...thanks for shearing bro....wish i knew this earlier.... i added 63mm lift and only 2 degree wedge plate but now the problems are showing
Because of the time it takes to work out what is causing the vibration most driveline shops don’t want to spend the time to fix it. At bigger lift the double Cardan tail shaft is the only way to go. I’m glad you found my video helpful, sometimes with these vehicles it’s not just the Drive Shaft that causes the vibration. Thanks for your nice comments Cheers Phil
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thanks phill yeah big time....I need to install that double cardon uni joint.....any chance you could leads us to what exact part number and brand double cardon uni joint u used ? I should have the same tailshaft so installing that double cardon uni joint u have should fix the issue
@@jmoore9806 please watch this yt video also ua-cam.com/video/zuPSGJZpL3k/v-deo.html as it will help to see if the vibration is drive shaft or tyres or a combination. I do not know the part number sorry. There wasn’t a direct fit double Cardan joint. The used a double cardan with 1350 u joints with a female spigot it had to be modified to fit the ranger 60mm out put flange spigot and m12 mounting bolts it came with 80mm spigot hole and 10mm bolt holes. The tail shaft shop or modified it to fit. You can ring Gibson Drive Shaft services in Newcastle on 02 4958 3059 as they are the people that did the job for me. If you Would like to talk on the phone I will post up my email address so you can email me and I will send you my phone number. I just like to add this isn’t as straightforward as it seems.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thanks for the reply phill...I live in Victoria so I can't drive to Gibson's drive shaft In Newcastle....It's a bit of a hike lol....I wonder if they can make me the same tailshaft like yours....maybe I can get them to ship it down to me.....Yeah cool I'll check out your link video when I get home from work... cheers Phill
Thanks for the feedback it’s always good to hear that I was able to help someone out. It’s awesome having UA-cam these days, I couldn’t fix half the things I work on without it. Cheers Philip👍😎
Hi, I have the same launch shudder issue with my PX3 after fitting a 2 inch lift kit. I was wondering exactly what you did b to fix it. Did you do the phase alignment as well as aligning the angles of the front and rear drive shafts? Thanks. Lee
The gearbox and the differential U joint is put in phase (turn the rear tail shaft 90° on the slip joint). and the centre universal joint has to be spaced down so both shafts run at the same angle ie 7° down on the front shaft and closest possible to 7° down on the rear shaft 0° operating angle with the use of a tail shaft spacer kit. You will first probably have to change your pinion angle of your differential so it matches the same angle of gearbox output flange, both these flanges have to run parallel to each other so if the gearbox is 3° down pinion flange has to be tilted up so it is 3° up. If your in Australia email your phone to dingleyphillip@gmail.com and I’ll give you a call
Hey bud, Yours doesnt have a master spline but mine definately did. It was some nylon coating that filled the gap between two splines. I cut mine out with a stanley knife. Did you buy this ute second hand? On yours it almost looks like someone has done this already to yours. Cheers
I have not seen what you are describing in any of the tail shaft that I have re-phased. My BT50 I bought brand new in 2019 and all the other Utes I have done have been 2017 and newer, so it might be a early model thing? Thanks for the heads up
been phoning around Perth trying to get a cardan joint fitted, no luck yet, but one shop said they would make a one piece driveshaft, and that it works better than the double cardan fix. Whats your thaughts on that Phil ?
I looked into a one piece tail shaft and cost was the biggest thing , to build a tail shaft that length it’s needs to be about 4 1/2 inches in diameter and probably made out of alloy to reduce the overall weight. Have a look at a new Isuzu D-max tail shaft to. There is a chance it might hit the crossmember that the centre bearing bolts to as the suspension cycles and it’s easer to hit when off-roading. Read this link to help calculate the diameter of the tail shaft spicerparts.com/calculators/critical-speed-rpm-calculator If you would like to have a chat on the phone email me your number with a time that you’d like to be called at dingleyphillip@gmail.com
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thanks for the reply Phil, they quoted me $1100 , and did say it was stronger than standard, I will ask if it will be alloy. Aparently they have done quite a few with good results. When I asked why they didnt come standard with a one piece they say its because the two piece is rated to 250kph, and the one piece is rated to 220kph.
. From a manufacturers point of view it is miles cheaper to make a two piece tail shaft then a one piece. There is online calculator’s to work out what diameter the tail shaft needs to be which is related to maximum speed maximum of shaft and toque of the engine and so on. I did these calculations with the tail shaft mob that I used and it just worked out that a two piece tail shaft would be cheaper and lighter to use. Remember the longer the shaft the larger the diameter and the thinner the wall of the tube has to be to keep the weight down so the tail shaft doesn’t turn like a skipping rope at speed . Let me know how you go I’m sure it’ll be fine. Yes I did find that some tail shaft shops did not want to do the double card u joint but could not tell me why it couldn’t be done.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 they fitted the one piece tailshaft today, only driven it about 30km so far, but some of that was on the freeway at 100kmh, seems to go well
Gibson Drive Shaft services in Newcastle nsw did the tail shaft for me you can contact them on the below link. www.gibsondriveshaft.com.au/contact Phone number 049583059 Very helpful business and I think They keep that 1350 cardan joint in stock
Yes we can, I can call you anytime between now and 12pm tomorrow Monday 24/07 email me your phone number to dingleyphillip@gmail.com I’ll be out of phone service for a few days after that.
2008 4x2 Hi-Rider dualcab. Had terrible shaft vibration at 45-60km/h.
Rebuilt 3 x uni's and centre bearing. Dropped centre bearing mount to ensure shafts were parallel and fillled centre bearing bush with silicone to soak up remaining frequency. Thankyou ! Worked a treat.
Thank you for the feedback :)
Brilliant mate .
I’ve just had new suspension with airbags installed in a old PJ Ranger right through .
I’m now sure this is exactly what is happing in mine especially that launch shudder you speak of. 👍👍
Let me know how how it goes
If ya have shudder when you take of, you’ll know it. It’s a pain in the ass. Mine is stock and have had it from day 1.
Thanks for a grate video ... im in the middle of this vibration problem for a customer after i put a lift kit in it .... cheers 🍻
thankyou mate. recently had centre bearing replaced and had massive vibration, checked orientation and theyd installed it upside down. quick fix but massive difference
Glad my video was of help
Thank you for your reply
Thanks mate fantastic video. Worked well for my BT50 and saved me heaps of time to get the result.
Thanks for the feedback, glad my vid helped 👍
Mazda told me that is how it is and put up with it. One thing to note is the T6 platform that these Utes are built on has a natural tendency to vibrate anyway it’s sort of feels like the chassis is flexing up and down while you’re driving down the road. Having a driveline vibration magnifies this. My vibration would cut in and stay there from 35 km an hour all the way through to 110 KPH. Now the vibration comes and goes due to road surface conditions. One thing to note if you have am mud tires on the vehicle this will make the vibration worse also, I ended up changing back to a all-terrain tyre as I mainly drive up and down the highway now.
Afternoon Phil.
I have been heading down the same long dusty trail you did but I hope your video has saved me from the dead end of it.
I got onto you and your fix video from a lake mac driveline shop.
So my 19 ranger has a slight take off shudder also after my 2 inch lift and I have the center bearing drop already installed. I’m going to invest some time over the weekend to perform the phase alignment . I’m super excited for the result of no vibration. Fingers crossed
So to clarify I need to have front and rear shafts at exact degrees. And the rear shaft phase aligned
Thanks
Yes that’s correct. Looking at the tail shafts from a side view you want to run them with next to 0° operating angle on the centre universal joint, Like I try to explain in the video if the front Shaft is for example 7° down the second shaft needs to be 7° down from the side view and phasing the tail shaft like it is a one piece shaft so pretend there is no uni in the middle. Remember that your diff pinion angle has to be the same angle as the angle down on the gearbox companion flange otherwise you will still have a vibration. So if the gearbox Companion flange is down 3° you need to tilt opinion so it is tilted up 3°. In the description section and of the video I have a link to the Spicer Drive line book which explains things very well. Remember this is a good setup for a constant load in the vehicle has varying loads will change the angle of the second Drive Shaft due to the compression of the spring pack.
Let us know how you go
True, my Ranger does it as so with all other Rangers I’ve driven.
Excellent in depth video. I have a 50mm lift, and have had vibration since.
Dropped centre bearing, and have wedges to go in. Was going tho put them in so high end was towards the back. So angle was raised up, but note your comments about facing down. Will give them a go one day, but worried about knocking leaf pin out to put them in. I have longer bolts to replace them with.
Hi mark in the video I got the in stall info for the wedges around the wrong way( had been working on a landCruiser drive line vibration that week I did the vid so wedges go in the other way around compared to spring over Ford) So to tilt your pinion down you need to put the thicker part of the wedge to the front and to tilt the pinion up you need to put the thicker part of the wedge to the rear. Most Castor wedges that you buy have a hole that is big enough in them that fits around the centre pin so there is no need to undo the centre bolt, I normally get castor wedges machined up with a 10 mm hole so I can bolt them to the spring pack and stop them from getting spat out later on if the u bolts loose off a bit.
The easiest way to undo the centre bolt without all the leaves going everywhere is to place G clamps on the front and rear of the spring pack or the way I prefer to do it which is to put ratchet straps around the chassis and leaf Packs, with the ute on the ground put the ratchet straps around both left and right sides and front and rear of diff tube (you will need 4 straps in total and the normal 25 mm wide good quality ones will be enough, just put the two hooks together) when putting straps around the chassis make sure you’re not squashing any brake lines or what, tension up the ratchet straps so there is no slack in them. Depending on what type of castor wedge you have, if it’s one you can drop in over the centre bolt you can simply loosen off the u bolts enough on both sides and Jack the car up by the towbar and this will allow the axle to drop away from the spring pack and allow you to insert the castor wedges in the gap between the spring perch and the spring pack. If you are going to bolt the castor wedges to spring pack jack up of the ute under the rear differential, remove u bolts both sides, rear tyres and lower shock mount bolts, Place axle stands under the chassis on both sides and lower back onto axle stands. Once resting safely on the axle stands you can continue to lower the differential housing and the ratchet straps will stop the leaf springs from dropping any further and hold The packs together. Just watch you don’t stretch the brake lines, ABS and electric differential lock wiring, dropping the spare tire down and out of the way is a must and will make it a lot easier to see what’s going on. When dropping Axel housing the pinion will want drop down but it should be caught by the binding of the universal joint on the tail shaft. When you have about 25mm of clearance between the Spring purchases and the leaf packs you can push the right hand side of the axle housing forward and the left-hand side rearwards, This will allow you to drop the centre bolt all the way out and install your castor wedges.
Don’t forget to fix up the phasing of the universal joints( like I explained in the video) this is the main cause of the vibration. Hope the above is of some use to, would love to know how it works out
Hi Phil, thank you for the video very informative that's for sure.
One part I don't understand is from the gearbox to the short shaft you mentioned that is 1deg. .my gearbox is at 4deg then to 9deg on the first shaft, 8.5 from bearing to diff and diff is at 8.9. I'm still getting vibration like crazy can't drive over 80kms.
Hi bill just so I’m reading your angles right. You have 4deg down on the output flange of the gear/ transfer case and 8•9deg up on your pinion flange this is your problem it needs to be 3 to 4 degrees up not 8•9deg up. You need to put the caster wedge with the thick part towards the front to drop the pinion down( I said it the wrong way around in the video as I had spent that week working on a land cruiser driveline vibration my bad when I get better I’m going to redo video)imagine both companion flanges need to run parallel to each other from the side view to keep the uni at the same angle. After dropping the pinion down you may need to re-shim the centre bearing to get the driveshaft angles the same again. Don’t forget to re-phase the differential universal joint to be in the same phase as the gearbox universal joint otherwise you will still have the vibration. This is explained in the video. Any more questions don’t hesitate to ask.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thank you so much.. I will order some 5deg casters from snake racings as they are the only ones hat have 5deg.. and if that doesn't fix it I will definitely go the same path as you and get the tailshaft fitted with cardan joint..
@@billcetin3983 at 8.9deg pinion angle I’m thinking you have extended shackles? As most sit at 4 to 5 degrees. The double cardan shaft was worth the money. I here from owners of the new MY2023 ranger that ford included the drive line vibration from factory to.
Let me know how it turns out
@@philsrandomstuff2392 it's actually a Dobinson lift kit.. 3inch front 2 inch back, but I did order the comfort springs and 0-100kg for the rear
I just had it fitted last week and been trouble shooting the vibration since..
So my car is good to about 80kms beyond that its a 40k vibrator
This vibration has been bugging me since new and it is significantly worse with the 50mm lift. Mazda would have you believe it's a feature not a fault in design. Anyway it looks like you did some detailed research and I will definitely give it a shot 👍
Let me know how you go.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 First a little background on the BT50. I have a 50mm lift and and a centre bearing drop kit already installed that has helped a bit with vibrations at highway speeds but it left a severe pulse in the drive line at around 30kph no matter how it was adjusted. Well this morning I figured I would re-phase the shaft and much to my surprise the low speed pulse is virtually gone. Now it's not perfect, however I still need to adjust the pinion angle slightly and lower the centre bearing another .5deg but I could live with it as is that's for sure. So overall I will give you two thumbs up on this one Phil thanks for the video. 👍👍
@@andrewcarroll9148 thanks for letting me know how it turned out, l’m glad it made a difference. I had to install 2deg caster wedges (thick part to front of Ute) this gave me 2.7deg pinion up to match the gear box 3deg down. Running the tail shaft dead straight like you have made my vibration about a 93% gone. ARB sell caster wedges
I brought mine a year ago and it was already lifted and Iv done so many things to get ridr of it with no luck. It's been balanced, Iv replaced the centre bearing. Those center bearing sucks but over it. Ford engineering is done by children, I also put new tyres on, wheels balanced and also have a new clutch put in and the clutch plate machine , also put that shim kit in on the bearing at different heights and the rear diff has those wedges put in and still didnt help and they should just add this to the class actions that will happen soon enough. B
Hopefully this will help when I'm done watching
I hope my video can help sort it out
Tail shaft weights to stop resonance were available at dealers for the Falcon . Ford produce terrible tail-shafts . Has been this way since EA Falcon . PJ PK center bearing has insufficient threads for many produced .
I`vefound vibration occurs 2 ways 1/ incorrect angle [lift or worn c /bearing ] typically u drive thru this . 20-50km/h
2 / missing weights damage [increases as vehicle speed goes up]
Hello! English is not my native language, so im struggling a bit in understanding everything. To sum up, i shoud: disassemble the slip joint, leave both ends of the shaft leveled, put back in the slip joint, put a center bearing spacer and slot the mounting tags a bit to slide the center bearing a bit to the drivers side (or in my case, the non driver side as I’m from Chile)
Hi Felipe English is my first language and I’m not very good at it. I think you’re doing better than me. If you are trying to run the tail shaft in a dead straight line which I’m guessing is that what you asking me about. You need to space the centre bearing down so when looking at the vehicle from the side view there is no angle or very little working angle in the centre bearing universal joint so if the front shaft is 7° down the rear shaft should be as close as possible to 7° down from the side view. Any more than one degree working angle and you will have a vibration. Do not worry about slotting the centre bearing mount , It helps but it’s not worth the effort as long as you have less than 1° working angle from the side view on the centre universal joint it’s not worth the worry to slot the centre bearing over. You need to phase the differential universal joint the same as the gearbox universal joint. Search on UA-cam how to phase universal joints in that’ll all explain what to do, but basically you are pulling the bottom tail shaft out of the slip joint and rotating at 90° to its original position. The other thing to take into account is pinion angle on the differential, if the gearbox is 3° down on the universal joint mounting flange your differential needs to be parallel to that so it has to be 2° 3° up. Hopefully this helps if you’re still unsure please message me back
This is a great video, I have a 2012 PX 3.2 4x4 manual . I have a vibration in the tail shaft at about 1200 rpm when I shift into 3rd gear . If I run the revs over 1500 its not too bad but I don't want to shift to second on all corners.
There is no vibration noticeable at 50 kph and over I have changed the unis, greased the splines , phased the t unis and have the shafts in as straight a line as possible with about 1/2 degree vertical difference between the 2 shafts by use of the spacer kit.
The pinion angles are equal between the diff and transfer case. I am not the first owner so am not sure what the lift is . No matter what I try it doesn't seem to make any difference. Very frustrating .
Hi Alastair I’m not 100% sure on what type of centre bearing on the earlier utes had, but it’s unlikely that it’s the Source of your vibration I only added the nylon insert just to take the final bit of vibration out of the tail shaft, this vibration only happened when you hit Bumps At speed the nylon insert just helped stabilise the shaft it didn’t really need it. So from what I’m reading above is that you have set it up in a straight line with the universal joints rephased I would suggest that the tail shaft probably needs Balancing. Every time I move something around in a tail shaft you can affect the balance. You can take your now re-phase tail shaft to a driveline shop and have it balanced and checked for straightnesses or you can dynamically balance the tail shaft on the vehicle there is several UA-cam videos about this just search by dynamic tail shaft balancing. The reason why I went to a double carden in joint was I still could not get all the vibration out the new tail shaft fixed this problem altogether, but costs a bit to do.
Phil I love this video I have vibrations when towing the camper a droning sound followed by vibration. Car has front Bullbar on stock suspension. Where can I go to get this fixed. Would a regular mechanic know about this?
Not many people know much about how to fix drive line vibrations, thats why I made this video. Any good mechanic should be able to fix it if they watch this video. Remember some times it’s not the drive shaft but something else like flat spots on tyres and the like, yours does sound like drive shaft by the description you give though.
Hi Phil, brilliant review. I have a 2017 BT-50 purchased with a 2" lift kit. At low low speed 3-5klms/hr I get a weird shudder or vibration both slowing down and take off, but it feels from the front end. Does your prop shaft evaluation also apply to the front prop shaft or have you witnessed front prop shaft issues with BT's, rangers, everest etc. Appreciate any comment/advise. Cheers Steve
It’s unlikely that it is the front driveshaft as it uses constant velocity joints, so no phasing issues with the front driveshaft on these vehicles, unless you have a front differential drop, that puts the CV joint at a very steep angle at the differential or something worn out
With my vehicle, I had the same shudder that you have which in my caused was caused by the rear driveshaft. On my vehicle, it felt like I had a flat front tire or flat spots on the front tires. After getting the driveshaft sorted this shudder went. Please remember that vibrations through the vehicle can be caused by many things like the type of tyres you run or a out of balance /bent rim. This is why it’s important to run a vehicle up on axle stands and measure the vibration with a jar with water in it. If you have a driveline vibration, the water will vibrate in the jar. If you have a tire problem, you will not get any vibration. Check out some videos on UA-cam on dynamic balancing tailshaft on vehicle to get an understanding of the process.
Running the tail shaft in a straight line like I show on my video as it is something that once changed is very easy to put back to stock with no cost at all except for cast of wedges under the axle housing.
Do you have any more questions? Please do not hesitate to ask. This is something that takes time and effort to sort out and not a five minute fix.
Hello Phil, so with varying weight loads you recomend the cardian joint method?
Gday Phil awesome video mate!? Quick question - you stated you have orientated your 1 deg leaf spring caster wedge is installed thick end towards front of car would this not push the pinion flange down not up? When I installed mine the thick end had to be at rear of vehicle to allow the pinion flange to point up 3 deg.
Good pick up, sorry stuff up there. If you are running the standard tail shaft as I described ( with no bend in the middle uni )yes you will need to put the caster wedges the way you have them ( thick part to the front ) to drop the pinion companion flange ie from 5deg up to 3deg up.
Hey mate, i have a vibration at 70kph+, and for the life of me i cannot find where it is coming from!!. My car is still standard height but carries a fair bit of weight in the back and sags a little in the back.. The vibrations started without any sort of warning, a seams to be worse when everything is up to temp... I have checked unies, center bearing and have had tyres and wheel alignment done.
My next thought was to remove the harmonic balancer on the diff and go from there. I would be interested to know if they are known to fail or if i should be looking else where.. If you could point me in the right direction that would be awsome.....
Cheers Mate!!
Best to have a chat over the phone
Email me your number at dingleyphillip@gmail.com
Your centre bearing rubber looks different. Did you fill it with urethane?
Yes I did try to stiffen up the centre bearing. But the urethane was to stiff. The gear box moves around a lot and it was placing to much load on the centre bearing. That is why I put a nylon ring in the centre bearing housing to help hold the shaft central but still allow it to kick when the gear box/ engine lifts under load.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 hey thx for the reply.. you're saying the centre bearing was stressed coz it couldn't freely change operating angle? And the nylon ring potentially reduces the skipping rope effect by keeping it centred? How thick is the ring?
Did it make much difference?
I'm chasing a low frequency driveline shake. Can see the diff pinion nodding like crazy when its doing it. Feels like clutch shudder (but its not). Standard suspension. Cheers
@@Huskydog78 with my Mazda it had a similar sort of low frequency vibration with the stock suspension to. I didn’t address this until I lifted it as I knew the vibration would get worse with increased suspension lift. In my experience Making the centre bearing stiffer didn’t fix the problem of the vibration, it all has to do with the out of phasing of the differential u joint , Pinion angle and Drive Shaft angles. Stiffening the centre bearing up got rid of about 2% of my vibration, but as I know every vehicle is different so the nylon ring that I put in the centre bearing is approximately 25 mm thick and I’m sorry I can’t remember the internal and external the measurement the dimensions, You will notice a rubber castellated section around the actual bearing. I made the inside diameter of the nylon insert the same as the outside diameter is this so it just helps support the centre bearing.To save money I originally made the nylon ring out of two pieces of half inch cutting board(used a jigsaw to cut the cutting board up) and self tappers to hold the two pieces together once in the centre bearing housing, that way I could put a slit in the rings so I could slip it over the tail shaft without having to disassemble the tail shaft and offset the splits in the two nylon rings so I could test if it made any difference.
If your opinion is nodding up and down it is definitely a phasing issue of the tail shaft but it’s hard to say as I’m not looking at your car. If you set up the tail shaft like I explain in my video which is running both tail shafts at the same angle and re-phasing the differential your joint to be the same phase as a gearbox u joint you will have a nice smooth running tail shaft, remember if this doesn’t work you can always and put it back to the way it was.
If you believe it is the centre bearing have a look at the Ranger raptor it uses A better supported tail shaft centre bearing and this might fit in a standard Ranger
Nice work Phill.
How does it sound now after 8 months ?
Yep Welcome to STRAAYA where the professional tail-shaft suspension so called experts dont know shit and a average Joe shows and explains how shits meant to work.....awesome presentation...thanks for shearing bro....wish i knew this earlier.... i added 63mm lift and only 2 degree wedge plate but now the problems are showing
Because of the time it takes to work out what is causing the vibration most driveline shops don’t want to spend the time to fix it. At bigger lift the double Cardan tail shaft is the only way to go. I’m glad you found my video helpful, sometimes with these vehicles it’s not just the Drive Shaft that causes the vibration. Thanks for your nice comments Cheers Phil
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thanks phill yeah big time....I need to install that double cardon uni joint.....any chance you could leads us to what exact part number and brand double cardon uni joint u used ? I should have the same tailshaft so installing that double cardon uni joint u have should fix the issue
@@jmoore9806 please watch this yt video also ua-cam.com/video/zuPSGJZpL3k/v-deo.html as it will help to see if the vibration is drive shaft or tyres or a combination. I do not know the part number sorry. There wasn’t a direct fit double Cardan joint. The used a double cardan with 1350 u joints with a female spigot it had to be modified to fit the ranger 60mm out put flange spigot and m12 mounting bolts it came with 80mm spigot hole and 10mm bolt holes. The tail shaft shop or modified it to fit.
You can ring Gibson Drive Shaft services in Newcastle on 02 4958 3059 as they are the people that did the job for me. If you Would like to talk on the phone I will post up my email address so you can email me and I will send you my phone number. I just like to add this isn’t as straightforward as it seems.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thanks for the reply phill...I live in Victoria so I can't drive to Gibson's drive shaft In Newcastle....It's a bit of a hike lol....I wonder if they can make me the same tailshaft like yours....maybe I can get them to ship it down to me.....Yeah cool I'll check out your link video when I get home from work... cheers Phill
I know the guy there really well at Gibson Drive Shaft and if you ring them They will be more than happy to supply you with the part Number
Nice work Phil just finished my ford ranger px2 with 2 inch lift. Had a shudder on take off. Now gone.runs super sooth now.😀😀😀😀
Thanks for the feedback it’s always good to hear that I was able to help someone out. It’s awesome having UA-cam these days, I couldn’t fix half the things I work on without it.
Cheers Philip👍😎
Hi, I have the same launch shudder issue with my PX3 after fitting a 2 inch lift kit. I was wondering exactly what you did b to fix it. Did you do the phase alignment as well as aligning the angles of the front and rear drive shafts? Thanks. Lee
@@leereiken9283 Hi Lee do you have an email so I can send some info
The gearbox and the differential U joint is put in phase (turn the rear tail shaft 90° on the slip joint). and the centre universal joint has to be spaced down so both shafts run at the same angle ie 7° down on the front shaft and closest possible to 7° down on the rear shaft 0° operating angle with the use of a tail shaft spacer kit. You will first probably have to change your pinion angle of your differential so it matches the same angle of gearbox output flange, both these flanges have to run parallel to each other so if the gearbox is 3° down pinion flange has to be tilted up so it is 3° up. If your in Australia email your phone to dingleyphillip@gmail.com and I’ll give you a call
Hey bud, Yours doesnt have a master spline but mine definately did. It was some nylon coating that filled the gap between two splines. I cut mine out with a stanley knife. Did you buy this ute second hand? On yours it almost looks like someone has done this already to yours. Cheers
I have not seen what you are describing in any of the tail shaft that I have re-phased. My BT50 I bought brand new in 2019 and all the other Utes I have done have been 2017 and newer, so it might be a early model thing? Thanks for the heads up
Doesn’t matter how many spacers I use, I can’t get the same degrees on either side of the Centre bearing.
As long as you are within no more 1° difference it will work fine. I’ve had to use thinner washers in the past to fine tune the alignment
The centre bearing looks like it is solid rubber??, can't see the saw teeth like a standard one, is this an after market centre bearing ?
I only have shudder on take off
No vibration after 10km per hour
been phoning around Perth trying to get a cardan joint fitted, no luck yet, but one shop said they would make a one piece driveshaft, and that it works better than the double cardan fix. Whats your thaughts on that Phil ?
I looked into a one piece tail shaft and cost was the biggest thing , to build a tail shaft that length it’s needs to be about 4 1/2 inches in diameter and probably made out of alloy to reduce the overall weight. Have a look at a new Isuzu D-max tail shaft to. There is a chance it might hit the crossmember that the centre bearing bolts to as the suspension cycles and it’s easer to hit when off-roading.
Read this link to help calculate the diameter of the tail shaft
spicerparts.com/calculators/critical-speed-rpm-calculator
If you would like to have a chat on the phone email me your number with a time that you’d like to be called at
dingleyphillip@gmail.com
@@philsrandomstuff2392 thanks for the reply Phil, they quoted me $1100 , and did say it was stronger than standard, I will ask if it will be alloy. Aparently they have done quite a few with good results. When I asked why they didnt come standard with a one piece they say its because the two piece is rated to 250kph, and the one piece is rated to 220kph.
. From a manufacturers point of view it is miles cheaper to make a two piece tail shaft then a one piece. There is online calculator’s to work out what diameter the tail shaft needs to be which is related to maximum speed maximum of shaft and toque of the engine and so on. I did these calculations with the tail shaft mob that I used and it just worked out that a two piece tail shaft would be cheaper and lighter to use. Remember the longer the shaft the larger the diameter and the thinner the wall of the tube has to be to keep the weight down so the tail shaft doesn’t turn like a skipping rope at speed . Let me know how you go I’m sure it’ll be fine. Yes I did find that some tail shaft shops did not want to do the double card u joint but could not tell me why it couldn’t be done.
@@philsrandomstuff2392 they fitted the one piece tailshaft today, only driven it about 30km so far, but some of that was on the freeway at 100kmh, seems to go well
Good stuff. Thanks for letting me know. Hopefully all your drive line vibration are now sorted
Phil, Can you please tell us the full part number of the 1350 double Cardan joint you welded in?
Gibson Drive Shaft services in Newcastle nsw did the tail shaft for me you can contact them on the below link.
www.gibsondriveshaft.com.au/contact
Phone number 049583059
Very helpful business and I think They keep that 1350 cardan joint in stock
your perfectionist !
Thanks, For your kind words. Hope I made it easy enough to understand and info helps you out if you are having a similar sort of problem. Cheers Phil
If this works Ill have to organise a carton of beer delivery....
If you have any questions I’m happy to give you my email and have a chat over the phone
I've been pulling my fukn hair out Mate.
Cheers first that and I'm off to the shed to fix the fuka.
Hope you get it sorted
Hay mate can we chat on phone?
Yes we can, I can call you anytime between now and 12pm tomorrow Monday 24/07 email me your phone number to dingleyphillip@gmail.com
I’ll be out of phone service for a few days after that.