The problem I have with all this "entering the most holy in 1844" is that did not Jesus ascend to his Father at the resurecction? Is not the Father represented by the most holy place? If so, When Jesus ascended to heaven from earth, he must have not seen His Father until 1844. And pardon me, but I find that crazy, I would think he'd see his Father immediately upon entering heaven. The Sanctuary system has some holes in it. Watch Desmond Fords videos, his questions are very valid.
kvtlcrew, I want to encourage you to not give up studying the IJ doctrine. Being raised SDA, the first 20 years of my life, I tried to understand it, and could not. However, after deep eschatological study over the last 10 years, everything opened up to me in one grand panoramic view! Words can't describe just how amazing this doctrine is and what its moral purpose for us. To begin with, it is very easy to prove that the 2300 yrs(8:14) start in the very same year as the 70 weeks of Dan 9:24.
@ncd Let me just say one thing. I have studied the IJ now for about 13 yrs. I also learned some amazing things. EGW never came up with the Investigative Judgment. Several pioneers from various denominational backgrounds did--Baptist, Congregationalist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. came to this conclusion based on scripture, ALL on their own. At first EGW was confused, so she prayed to God to help her understand it. Later she was given a vision confirming what the pioneers discovered was true.
Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: the 1st tabernacle phase is completed (aka "not yet standing") in full and finished when christ became our high priest at his resurrection. not 1844
Amen. We are living in the anti-typical day of atonement where we must search out our hearts and by the Grace of God believe that He gives us power to cleanse us and continue to refine our characters to be more and more like Jesus, that we may be ready. This is what believing and trusting in the savior in part is about.
"So if I forget to repent a sin I have forgotten about in the past I am doomed to hell." Not necessarily. God only holds you accountable for what you know. And you should be ASKING God to reveal sins to you in prayer and through His Word so that day by day you can become more Christ like as your character becomes more sanctified into the likeness of our Savior by His Holy Spirit.
Are you saying she is the the Second Coming? What prophecy is it you believe Ellen White fulfilled? Also, I believe there is a difference between a Prophet and a Visionary; as Joseph Smith was a Visionary, not a two way relationship. I must admit I had not read up on Seventh Day Adventist until I typed in the year 1844, and among the Baha'i videos I expected to find, I saw this video. Does Ellen White share some of the visions that Joseph Smith had, for they both speak of the year 1844.
The investigative judgment is all over the Bible. How can people be so BLIND. 1. Daniel and the vision of the writing on the Wall. 2. The wicked people in Noah's ark 3. The JEWS in Dan 9:24-27 4. Sodom and Gomorrah 5.
Its not a matter of when Jesus "saw" the father sir, its a matter of when he entered into the next phase of his heavenly minuistry. In the type the high priest ministered FIRST in the holy place. If Jesus was to be faithful to the type, which ic Gods very word, he must also "minister" in the holy place, and THEN the most holy place. Yea, its really that simple.
@99percentatheist: "This passages clearly teach that Christ atoned for our sins at the time of his assention not in 1844." SDA's do not teach that Christ atoned for sin in 1844. He paid the eternal price for in at the Cross.
Yes, this is true. The Bab was the forerunner in the Bahai faith, and said the main purpose of His mission was to prepare the people for the coming of Baha'u'llah. What other prophecies does Ellen White fulfill? Do you have a specific video that talks about this?
@sleanos You wrote: "when Jesus ascended He consecrated the Holy of Holies once with His own blood, and then intercedes daily for us as well." At the moment is Jesus still in the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary or is He now outside in the holy place & in the courtyard up there?
This is where I can see we don't quite agree. I am a member of the Baha'i Faith, and I believe he did return as Baha'u'llah, the Glory of God. There are countless bible proofs that support this. I don't mean to persuade you at all, for we will surely know the answers to these questions we seek when our time to return to God has come.
*sigh* No offense but have you seen the rest of my videos on here that explain why you and I see differently on the Old & New Covenants and what was included/excluded in them? The new covenant is older than the old covenant having been given to Adam & Eve in the garden *promise of a Messiah*. God's Holy & Perfect Law (10 Commandments including the 7th day sabbath) are at the heart of BOTH covenants.
I worship God and all his Manifestations, the most current being Baha'u'llah. I can't believe you've learned about His life, or we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Members of the Baha'i Faith come from literally EVERY background possible. I have conversed with many devout Christians, Jews, and Muslims that have become Baha'i, because it is our DUTY to know about previous Faiths as well. How can you effectively teach someone the word of God without knowing it's entirety? Right?! :)
Which is alone? That can be interpreted in a few ways considering nobody SAW him physically go into heaven. I believe he means that he will return from the same place, which is god's kingdom. So what do you see in the year 1844? Perhaps he did come again in 1844 and he was missed by many just as he was when he came the first time. He wasn't recognized by many for a long time. If he will come with a new name then everyone looking for Jesus Christ WILL or HAVE ALREADY missed him.
Hers is what I've seen when examining the major Faiths. ALL have the same spiritual laws (no killing, respect your parents, no premarital sex, etc.), so, same requirements there. The only thing that changes is SOCIAL laws (no pork, multiple wives, etc.) because SOCIETY changes. How are we to progress positively in the world if nobody excepts that things change? Pork is safe now, so Christ says you can eat it. We don't have drastic numbers of men reduced by war, so you need only one wife.
@joeplacetas1 And to answer your question... today as of right now I believe I have the assurance of eternal life in Christ. I have no unconfessed or unforsaken sins. (That does not mean that I am sinless of course). Tomorrow is another story though. And God's Grace is sufficient for the day. So long as I believe and rely on Him day by day I believe I will be saved in His kingdom when He comes. But I do not presume to know that 100%. God will ultimately decide. But I have peace in Him now.
Thank you, I will. Another program I've found to be very beneficial that I think you might also like is Ocean. It has over 200 or so religious books that you can reference and actually works as a search program to find text from various religions on a specific subject.
@ninnzbinnz the context of tt chapter is that the ministration into the heavenly sanctuary could not have happened while the earthly sanctuary was still there. the writer is not talking about which apartment christ went in after ascension. Christ entered the sanctuary after His ascension but into the second apartment in 1844 to begin preadvent judgement read Daniel 7vs9-10
The Bahai Faith was founded in 1844 by twin manifestations, the Bab and Baha'u'llah (the main patriarch). At that time began the spark of many things prophesied by Christ. "Information will move at the speed of light when i return"... Samuel Morse sent out his first telegram with the message "What hath God wrought?" this is just one of many fulfilled. Also Christ said " I will come as a theif in the night and with a new name." So why do people keep looking for this big descend from the clouds?
@joeplacetas1 It is the tone in which you speak "we are saved,saved,saved,cant you get that ?" As if I didn't understand or couldn't understand. As Christians we are to give offense in nothing. Clearly something is seriously bothering you based on this response.
I would also like to say I have appreciated my discussions with you very much. I hope you don't think I'm being to bold with this new information or that I mean any disrespect. God Bless.
Please don't think me arrogant when I say this, but there is enough scripture in the Bible to prove that Baha'u'llah is not the second coming of Jesus Christ. There is just way to many signs and exact prophecies that needed to be fulfilled before the Second Coming of Christ and once He comes, the show is over for this chapter of humanity. EVERY eye on earth shall see Him coming the second time, not just a select few.
The evidence of the Bab and Baha'u'llah being Manifestations of God is insurmountable. William Sears, a Hand of the Cause and journalist, wrote a book called 'A Thief in the Night' which goes into great detail regarding Bible proofs to support these claims. Not to mention the miraculous incidences surrounding the Bab's martyrdom, that was witnessed by thousands, and even recorded in the newspapers. Baha'u'llah was an amazing person from childhood, with knowledge most grown people don't possess.
@choppingwater Keep in mind, the OT sanctuary is just a model and symbolizes the work of the Messiah. Noone's killing animals up there and I'm sure the actual temple of God in heaven (not to be confused with our bodies which are also the temple of God) is much more grandiose than anything we can possibly imagine. I say this as a matter of faith/trust in God based on prayerfully studying scripture.
I COMPLETELY understand and sympathize with what you are saying, however there are many biblical tests that we can apply to anyone claiming to be a prophet of God or God Himself and Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Baha'u'llah and MANY others do not pass the biblical criteria. Please watch the other videos on my site for these "tests". If you worship Baha'u'llah then we do not worship the same God. It is that simple. For the details on why, please watch my other videos on how biblical inspiration works.
I just don't understand why there are so many secular churches. It seems anyone can pick the parts of one Manifestation they agree with and some from another, discard the rest, call it theirs, and then build a church from it. You either except the whole word of Christ or you don't. Of course some of what Christ said was different then Moses, and so on. What would be the point in Christ returning to tell all of the same Gospel over again? One thing out of context and He
Yes, agreed. Justification, when we come to Christ we have the PROMISE of eternal life at that very moment. But you are mistaken about the investigative judgment. Read the parable of the Unforgiving Slave in Matthew 18:23-35. Pay attention to the last line. Also read: 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
@ncdynasty All I can tell you is to study the Old Testament sanctuary service (along with the prophecies of Daniel). It serves as a model to illustrate the work of the Messiah. The Old Testament ceremonial sabbaths prophetically illustrate events in the work of the messiah as well. It all points to Jesus and the work He would, has and will do until all is complete and sin, death, the devil and the wicked are no more. God bless.
I respect your beliefs and in no way am dictating what you believe. Please understand this truth. I am simply sharing my beliefs from my perspective, studies and experience. It isn't about courtesy but conviction of truth. And I don't believe I am contradicting myself on Ellen White, because I do believe she fits the biblical criteria to be a prophet/messenger of God. Please indicate how she does not or is not sanctioned by the Biblical criteria and Christ's own words.
This is were you are speaking from ignorance and I say this respectfully. The text clearly indicates that hundreds of people saw Jesus in flesh & blood after His resurrection and 3 of His apostles saw Him go into heaven, not including the angels, Moses & Elijah. Note: text says Jesus will return "in like manner". In the SAME way He went up, with a physical body into the clouds, is the same way He will return, physical body, from the clouds, but this time with ALL His glory & angels.
No, he was a visionary, and he's not responsible for what the Mormons have become. Just as Christ would not have had His word split so many different ways. What are some of the main prophecies made by Ellen White?
There is only ONE GOD, and He is shared by many faiths. You should go to a multi faith conference sometime and you would see just how much these religions, do in fact, agree. I know you said you have researched other faiths, but that makes me further confused as to how you don't see we ALL speak of the same God with the same wondrous attributes. The reason God sends down these messengers one after another is because we can't handle the entire truth at once. The only difference is what's added.
You are free to believe what you like of course. However, please do not assume that all Christians "grasp for fear" as this isn't always the case. I wasn't always a Christian and you would be surprised about my background. I've investigated the major faiths for quite sometime before comfortably, reasonably, and logically believing Christianity is the Truth period. It is based on logic, reason, LOVE & reverence for a Holy Perfect God, not fear (although for some may be a start).
I find it ironic that people would try to do away with the 7th day sabbath, the longest of the 10 commandments, the ONLY day specifically blessed and sanctified by God in the garden BEFORE sin along with "marriage". The Father "rested" as an example to us then and it was Jesus - Son of God's CUSTOM to worship on the Sabbath with everyone. We are to "walk" with the Lord EVERYDAY in spirit & truth, but He calls us to keep HIS day Holy. It was made FOR man to draw us especially closer to our God.
It is only your interpretation of 1844 that makes very little sense. You'll need to study your bible more carefully along with the Old Testament sanctuary and the book of Hebrews. It is Desmond Fords videos that have holes in them.
@joeplacetas1 Please be respectful otherwise I will not be answering you questions. I completely understand what you are saying, but YOU know very well that we DO NOT believe in "Once saved, ALWAYS saved". Everyday we must stay connected to Christ, examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith and surrender OUR wills to His. That is the work/part we do in the plan of salvation. God does the rest to save us. God always gives us a choice in following Him or not daily. Understand?
There might be some overlap in the visions of E White and Joseph Smith, but that's only because Joseph Smith has stated a lot of truth along with error according to biblical principles. Read the history of both people and you'll the marked difference in the way they lived their lives. There really is no comparison.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (Plus whatever else God commands, once we read and understand) Committing sin in and of itself is NOT the unpardonable sin (they all can be forgiven). Continuously pushing aside (grieving) the Holy Spirit's calling to you & your conscience not to commit wrongs, is the unpardonable sin.
@ncdynasty "Would I be considered a christian if I do not believe all of what she is saying?" Not sure, all depends on what you are doing. Jesus said if you love Him you'll obey Him and bear fruit (in your character, life, work, witness, etc). Do you have a loving relationship with God? Are you walking in all the light you know and understand?
@ninnzbinnz You don't know your bible very well. The sanctuary was given as an example by God to represent the work of Christ. The high priest back then entered into the Holy of Holies once to consecrate it with the blood of animal BEFORE dealing with the daily sacrifices, likewise, when Jesus ascended He consecrated the Holy of Holies once with His own blood, and then intercedes daily for us as well. Study it out as God says His way is in the sanctuary as an example to the work of Christ.
I agree with you that animal sacrifices are done away with. The 70 week prophecy of Daniel predicted Jesus's 1st coming and why the sacrifices would cease. This is why Jesus is called the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and why the lamb offering without spot was used in the animal sacrificial system. It POINTED like a shadow to Jesus.
Now, this really bothers me. Out of respect for MY beliefs, you should have capitalized Baha'i. If you're not going to even lend me common courtesy, I don't see a reason to keep up this discussion. Besides, you're contradicting yourself because Ellen G. White isn't a prophet either, and is in NO way sanctioned under Christ's Word.
5. The Jews in AD70 WE can never be perfect on this earth in our human form but it is because of the righteousness of Christ and the example he set for us to follow, that makes us AIM to be perfect. Be perfect as your Father in HEAVEN in perfect. We are on Earth. The best thing we can do is AIM to be perfect. Christ will make up the rest. He that endures and overcomes temptation will receive a crown of life. God bless you all to the TRUTH
Read another translation (Ex: Amplified Bible) How do you interpret was is written below? John 5:24I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life. And he does not come into judgment [does not incur sentence of judgment, will not come under condemnation], but he has already passed over out of death into life.
Then you're problem is NOT with Seventh-day Adventist teachings on the Invetigative judgement, but with some other groups version of it. Bible clearly teaches that EVERYONE (saints and wicked) will stand before God on that day. ONLY those who truly abide in Christ will not be condemned (no verdict of guilty as Jesus's righteousness is accredited to us). Everyone else will stand WITHOUT the blood of the Lamb on there behalf and be punished according to their works.
When Jesus Christ died, He nailed the Old Law to the cross (Colossians 2:14). Christ made the Law of Moses obsolete and replaced it with the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). Paul explained to Christians in Galatia that the Old Law was cast out and replaced by Christ's New Law (Galatians 4:21-31). The regulations about clean and unclean foods were jettisoned, along with rules for animal sacrifice, ritual washings, annual feast days, SABBATH OBSEVRVANCE, and a host of other ceremonial trappings.
God's Holy Law that He spoke with His own mouth and wrote with His finger never changes. If it could, Jesus would not have had to die on the cross for you or I. Check out bibleuniverse DOT com's free prophecy course and watch the videos. I think you may enjoy them.
mmmmm... It saddens my heart to hear you say this. You give the One, Omnipotent, Ever Forgiving, All Knowing, All merciful God to your Faith and the ones that came before, but none after. Do you not think the Jewish Faith feels the same way about yours? They do, or they would have excepted Christ and wouldn't be Jewish! Christ was not excepted widespread until MUCH time had passed, so I'm not surprised at your skepticism. However, I plead you not to deny that I believe in the same God as you.
I agree, the worst of us can be saved by God's grace, however, and I'm not saying I know the threshold, a person can come to a point in their life where it's mighty dangerous to reject God's saving Grace and be lost. Noah & the Flood, Sodom & Gmorrah for example. Today is the day of salvation. I pray everyone makes that choice now.
Because he's ganna further expose himself as a Jesuit and end up lost if he pursists in his errors. There is nothing wrong with feeling bad for those who will be lost if they dont repent.
@ncdynasty So you don't believe that our salvation comes from Jesus Christ alone as a free gift of love? You don't believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God able to reach the hearts and minds of humanity. You don't believe the 10 commandments at a minimum are an expression of the type of God of Love we serve and that He has given us power through the indwelling 3rd person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit to obey all His commandments and precepts?
It's very scary to except, or even want to hear new information like this I'm sure. Think of it like an earthquake. You will grab what is closest to you in fear (and rightfully so ;) when perhaps there is something sturdier just beyond your reach. I fell that as long as you have God in your heart, than He has done His job, for ALL religions speak of the same Almighty. To know and love God is #1 is it not? Whether it be from any of His chosen ones, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, Baha'u'llah.
She's responsible for bringing about health reformation. The medical/nutritional world has barely within the last few decades proven much of what Ellen White taught on health principles. She's prophesied numerous events during her time. There are many testimonies from doctors of her day who investigated her while actually in vision as well.
Ellen White is not the second coming of Jesus. God always sent a prophet/messenger before some major event of His doing. ; Moses;deliverance of Israel, John the Baptist/1st coming of Jesus. I believe the same can be said about Ellen White. The SDA church is a fulfillment of Rev 12:17. The church & E White are fulfillments for the longest time prophecy in the Bible. (2300 days/years)
@99percentatheist - Clearly you are ignoring - "But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Rom. 14:10, NKJV." Only those found to have been living in Christ will be found not guilty (No condemnation for those in Christ Jesus). I pray you allow God's spirit & word to live in your heart & mind making Jesus truly your Lord of your life and not just Savior. God bless
Annual feast days - You are correct, these were specifically given to the nation of Israel, happened only once a year and were to commemorate things like their deliverance in Egypt. All of these are done away with, for they also foreshadowed the work of the Savior. They also act as a prophetic timeline for the Christian era as well. We are living in the time of judgment according to revelation, the jewish anti-typical "day of atonement". Laodicia - last church age - judging of the people.
No offense, but this proves nothing. The Bible says satan can transform himself into an angel of light and that the very elect of God can be deceived unless they immerse themselves in the Word of God & His Son Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit. I will get that book that you suggest and read it so I can more thoroughly address the statements within.
Read this: tinyurl(DOT)com/2j2uyd, it is specific with bible prophetic time. I have two videos on here that speaks about prophecy tinyurl(DOT)com/yrqxk5 & the true church as well tinyurl(DOT)com/yqbjuo (Lots of resources on right hand description pane of this page)
@99percentatheist, Hebrews 10:26 says: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." This proves that intercession for these sins is currently being made. If atonement was over, the world would be over. Nobody could repent. As long as "repentance" exist, "atonement" must exist. You can't say 'atonement is complete", but yet still be able to repent. That's impossible.
I agree with you. I thought I should remind you that our "good friend" contradomingo is not for Doug Batchelor like I assumed, or perhaps you assumed as well. I learned in an email very quickly that he as well is vehemently against the 1844 Investigative Judgment. =/ His arguments against it come from Calvinism, that we've all been "predestined". Unfortunately it is impossible to see the Investigative Judgment when you're filled with the error of Predestination in your mind.
Let me ask you this, and let's use common sense and reason. So are you saying when Jesus died all of a sudden we can eat unclean animals and it is healthy for us like cockroaches, rats, lice & pigs.
Yes this man knows all about Hebrews 9 & John 5:24. One thing you must understand about the judging of the saints that is going on right now. It is not for God's benefit (He knows all things) but for the rest of His created beings that they may know & understand His ways. IF those who call themselves Christians have put their trust in Jesus making Him Lord & Savior of their lives, the judgment will show this & then their is NO condemnation to those who believe.
As I have as well. Much of what you've stated I've investigated for myself as I had many similar questions before acknowledging Christianity and Jesus Christ as the absolute truth. There is much scholarly information to investigate origins of our belief systems to derive this truth and my prayer is that more people would ... do the homework. :) God bless you as well friend.
To all having IJ related difficulty; please obtain "Sanctuary Path To The throne" and study. Easy? No, it requires work. Re Dan. 8:14 "sanctuary will be cleansed"; how about; "restored to it's rightful place" does that help. In Rev. 11 "rise and measure the temple (sanctuary)", here again, study the sanctuary. The Millerites neglected this work. Consequently, they had to endure ridicule. God bless all. GS
The unpardonable sin is grieving away the Holy Spirit to where you no longer feel a need to repent of your sins. If you have no conscience due to pushing the Holy Spirit away, you will feel no need to repent. The following text describes this: Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
@choppingwater According to the pattern given us of the OT sanctuary and the words of Christ Himself, Jesus is "seated at the right hand of the Father" so He is ministering in the Most Holy Place. He is not in the courtyard (symbolized by His death on the cross) nor is He in the "holy place" (2nd compartment), not to be confused with calling the temple itself the "holy place".
Ritual washing - So are you saying we shouldn't wash our hands anymore? ;) Jesus addressed the Jewish teachers on this point primarily because they were imposing there man made regulations on others as if it had some merit to make a man "spiritually" clean with God. That's all that was. There is no requirement to "ritually wash" however I hope all can and are able to ritually take a bath/shower daily... for hygenic purposes. ;)
@ninnzbinnz Sorry friend. I don't agree with your interpretation of things here. Study out the 70 week prophecy, the 1260-1290 year prophecy and the 2300 year prophecy that ties them all together and compare against the IT sanctuary services. You are making the scriptures say more than they do. Jesus is in the Holy compartment serving as our high priest daily bringing our petitions mixed with His righteousness before the throne of God according to scripture and the OT sanctuary pattern.
WOW! Pork is safe to eat?!?! Last I checked with doctors and nutritionists it fits the bill of the most unhealthy thing you can put in your body. Ever heard of trichina and a number of other diseases you can get from eating undercooked pork. God made pigs to cleanse the fallen earth, not for man to consume. Even secular atheists who CARE about their health understand this. Marriage has ALWAYS been 1 man and 1 woman in the biblical sense. Polgymany is never right in God's eyes.
Multi faith conferences while being VERY good for brining about unity among people and eliminating religious bigotry and hatred, only makes it easier for some to compromise on certain elemental truths of their faiths. If you would like a list of things that our God requires of us because He has saved us, be happy to send it to you to compare with what Baha'u'llah says. Then you will see the incompatibility. Only 1 faith system can be %100 truth, they all can't be, which is it?
I understand what you mean. Those were my sentiments as well and when I finally investigated the bible and the Christian faith, I was convicted to find a church that obeyed ALL of it by the Grace of God, not just some of it. The 10 commandments are too plain for the Christian. Jesus taught keep it all in spirit and truth. There is letter of the law which we should naturally obey and then there is the spiritual aspects of the law. Much like police officer granting you grace/pardon for speeding.
"The unpardonable sin is to reject Jesus Christ as the son of God and his death on the cross for our sins and the Gospel of Grace.." That is what we are to accept yes in order to be saved. The unpardonable sin is to consistently REJECT the Holy Spirits pleading on our hearts and minds to accept the Son of God as our Savior. So I'd have to agree more or less.
@LambAndTheDragon no one knows exactly how much time is left. We just know most of the signs the Lord has given have come to pass already. There was a great spiritual awakening to the truths of the Bible around the world. It is referred to as the second great awakening by most Christian circles/historians.
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. the sacrificial phase of Jesus has taken place back then at his asention. also for our hearts to be sprinkled from an evil contience could not have taken place if SDA 1844 is true jesus never entered the holiest. heart represents the ark which contains the commandments. hence no new covenent by the SDA. SDA fools
@ncdynasty "Would I think the same way if I read the bible without a prophet or prophetess to guide me?" You'll have to answer that one for yourself. I can safely say that I do think the same way having read the Bible for myself before ever investigating the writings of Ellen White.
What a judgmental comment and condemning spirit. Just an fyi: 1) This presentation was an expository talk for a Sabbath school class based on ONE of 13 lessons for an entire Quarter on the subject of the sanctuary and 1844. 2) Want an in depth explanation? Study you Bible. 3) Care for an Adventist complete scriptural view point? Grab any of the often free materials online from Adventist websites on the matter. Sabbath School for example.
@ninnzbinnz ... No New Covenant for SDA? Are you even aware what the New Covenant is? "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people." (Hebrews 8:10) On the contrary - if you have no law (or think them void) you have no New Covenant. Typical ... all justification with no sanctification. Cheap, easy grace.
I don't believe you fully understand nor have studied out the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment from an Adventist perspective fully to sit here and try to say the Bible refutes it. Especially when scripture is full of stories of the Lord and angels visiting man to "investigate" before pronoucning judgment. Remember the story of Sodom & Gmorrah with the angels and Angel of the Lord visiting Abraham for example.
@99percentatheist, Sleanos is right. As long as Christ is our High Priest, he is "atoning" for us. The role of a High Priest is to "atone", or "make intercession". The atonement of sacrifice was complete, but that's only part of the grand "atonement". As long as sin exists, there must be an intercessor. Second Coming of Christ = End of Atonement. As soon as Christ steps out of the Most Holy Place, Probation for all humanity has closed.
Jesus spent quite a bit of time proving to some of His doubtful disciples that He really did return from the grave after the crucification before ascending to the throne of God. Read the account of Thomas. And No, Jesus DID NOT come in 1844 as the Jehovah Witnesses teach. Jesus makes it very clear the signs and manners of His second coming. There is still some prophecy left to be fulfilled before His second coming as well.
To know to do good and yet NOT do it, it is sin. Sin leads to death. (I know you don't need the scripture reference for these two powerfully paraphrased scriptures.)
I to see a difference between a prophet of God and a visionary. Joseph Smith was no prophet of God for he used methods clearly condemned by God Himself for his visions and mormons place Smith's words above the bible when in conflict. Ellen White had visions and dreams before the people, not in secret and everything she says is to be tested by the Bible itself, not the other way around.
"Did Jesus ascend to to His Father at the resurrection?" - No not immediately. Jesus speaking to Mary after the resurrection: Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
It is God's law of Love & Liberty (10 commandments) that was written on stone in the old covenant and is written on the heart in the new covenant. Forgiveness and divine strength to obey God is the new covenant. Obeying God in your OWN strength is the Old Covenant. Yes all the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament are obsolete, I agree. The 4rth commandment is NOT one of those however having been made in the garden along with marriage BEFORE fall of man.
Very simple: Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. He came the first time as a man, He will come again as a man this time in ALL glory & power and with His countless mighty angels.
"On that day" IS judgment day. It is not subjective to when a person passes, but will occur after the second coming of Christ for ALL. There is too much evidence from the apostles that speak of judgment day in the future tense, a judgment day (one day) for ALL. The bible calls us all to be perfect, to continue to strive in the faith, progress heavenly upward in heart and character by the Grace of God. To NOT do this is to go the opposite way. Grow in Grace friend. THAT is the message.
@MyHopeisJesusChrist yes. The investigative judgment now that ends just prior to the second coming of Christ. Then the executive judgment by fire after the heavenly city returns down to earth where the wicked and eventually destroyed forever.
The problem I have with all this "entering the most holy in 1844" is that did not Jesus ascend to his Father at the resurecction? Is not the Father represented by the most holy place? If so, When Jesus ascended to heaven from earth, he must have not seen His Father until 1844. And pardon me, but I find that crazy, I would think he'd see his Father immediately upon entering heaven. The Sanctuary system has some holes in it. Watch Desmond Fords videos, his questions are very valid.
kvtlcrew,
I want to encourage you to not give up studying the IJ doctrine. Being raised SDA, the first 20 years of my life, I tried to understand it, and could not. However, after deep eschatological study over the last 10 years, everything opened up to me in one grand panoramic view! Words can't describe just how amazing this doctrine is and what its moral purpose for us. To begin with, it is very easy to prove that the 2300 yrs(8:14) start in the very same year as the 70 weeks of Dan 9:24.
@ncd
Let me just say one thing. I have studied the IJ now for about 13 yrs. I also learned some amazing things. EGW never came up with the Investigative Judgment. Several pioneers from various denominational backgrounds did--Baptist, Congregationalist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. came to this conclusion based on scripture, ALL on their own. At first EGW was confused, so she prayed to God to help her understand it. Later she was given a vision confirming what the pioneers discovered was true.
I can feel His face looking down upon me at all times. He guides me and protects me. I give all praise and worship to my Savior.
Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
the 1st tabernacle phase is completed (aka "not yet standing") in full and finished when christ became our high priest at his resurrection. not 1844
Amen. We are living in the anti-typical day of atonement where we must search out our hearts and by the Grace of God believe that He gives us power to cleanse us and continue to refine our characters to be more and more like Jesus, that we may be ready. This is what believing and trusting in the savior in part is about.
"So if I forget to repent a sin I have forgotten about in the past I am doomed to hell."
Not necessarily. God only holds you accountable for what you know. And you should be ASKING God to reveal sins to you in prayer and through His Word so that day by day you can become more Christ like as your character becomes more sanctified into the likeness of our Savior by His Holy Spirit.
Are you saying she is the the Second Coming? What prophecy is it you believe Ellen White fulfilled? Also, I believe there is a difference between a Prophet and a Visionary; as Joseph Smith was a Visionary, not a two way relationship. I must admit I had not read up on Seventh Day Adventist until I typed in the year 1844, and among the Baha'i videos I expected to find, I saw this video. Does Ellen White share some of the visions that Joseph Smith had, for they both speak of the year 1844.
The investigative judgment is all over the Bible. How can people be so BLIND.
1. Daniel and the vision of the writing on the Wall.
2. The wicked people in Noah's ark
3. The JEWS in Dan 9:24-27
4. Sodom and Gomorrah
5.
Answer me this: If 1844 was the beginning of the investigative judgement, how much time is left? And what historical event happened to prove 1844?
Its not a matter of when Jesus "saw" the father sir, its a matter of when he entered into the next phase of his heavenly minuistry. In the type the high priest ministered FIRST in the holy place. If Jesus was to be faithful to the type, which ic Gods very word, he must also "minister" in the holy place, and THEN the most holy place. Yea, its really that simple.
@99percentatheist: "This passages clearly teach that Christ atoned for our sins at the time of his assention not in 1844."
SDA's do not teach that Christ atoned for sin in 1844. He paid the eternal price for in at the Cross.
Yes, this is true. The Bab was the forerunner in the Bahai faith, and said the main purpose of His mission was to prepare the people for the coming of Baha'u'llah. What other prophecies does Ellen White fulfill? Do you have a specific video that talks about this?
Is this going to take place anytime soon? I feel bad for Dr. Ford.
@sleanos You wrote: "when Jesus ascended He consecrated the Holy of Holies once with His own blood, and then intercedes daily for us as well."
At the moment is Jesus still in the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary or is He now outside in the holy place & in the courtyard up there?
Hey thanks for this video, I am using it in an attempt to focus some of the best videos on the early Adventist church posted on youtube.
@ncdynasty "Why is the word of God made to sound so confusing? "
What are you confused about?
This is where I can see we don't quite agree. I am a member of the Baha'i Faith, and I believe he did return as Baha'u'llah, the Glory of God. There are countless bible proofs that support this. I don't mean to persuade you at all, for we will surely know the answers to these questions we seek when our time to return to God has come.
*sigh* No offense but have you seen the rest of my videos on here that explain why you and I see differently on the Old & New Covenants and what was included/excluded in them? The new covenant is older than the old covenant having been given to Adam & Eve in the garden *promise of a Messiah*. God's Holy & Perfect Law (10 Commandments including the 7th day sabbath) are at the heart of BOTH covenants.
I worship God and all his Manifestations, the most current being Baha'u'llah. I can't believe you've learned about His life, or we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Members of the Baha'i Faith come from literally EVERY background possible. I have conversed with many devout Christians, Jews, and Muslims that have become Baha'i, because it is our DUTY to know about previous Faiths as well. How can you effectively teach someone the word of God without knowing it's entirety? Right?! :)
Which is alone? That can be interpreted in a few ways considering nobody SAW him physically go into heaven. I believe he means that he will return from the same place, which is god's kingdom. So what do you see in the year 1844? Perhaps he did come again in 1844 and he was missed by many just as he was when he came the first time. He wasn't recognized by many for a long time. If he will come with a new name then everyone looking for Jesus Christ WILL or HAVE ALREADY missed him.
Hers is what I've seen when examining the major Faiths. ALL have the same spiritual laws (no killing, respect your parents, no premarital sex, etc.), so, same requirements there. The only thing that changes is SOCIAL laws (no pork, multiple wives, etc.) because SOCIETY changes. How are we to progress positively in the world if nobody excepts that things change? Pork is safe now, so Christ says you can eat it. We don't have drastic numbers of men reduced by war, so you need only one wife.
@joeplacetas1 And to answer your question... today as of right now I believe I have the assurance of eternal life in Christ. I have no unconfessed or unforsaken sins. (That does not mean that I am sinless of course). Tomorrow is another story though. And God's Grace is sufficient for the day. So long as I believe and rely on Him day by day I believe I will be saved in His kingdom when He comes. But I do not presume to know that 100%. God will ultimately decide. But I have peace in Him now.
The only sin God cannot forgive is the one we do not repent of and ask for forgiveness.
Thank you, I will. Another program I've found to be very beneficial that I think you might also like is Ocean. It has over 200 or so religious books that you can reference and actually works as a search program to find text from various religions on a specific subject.
@ninnzbinnz the context of tt chapter is that the ministration into the heavenly sanctuary could not have happened while the earthly sanctuary was still there. the writer is not talking about which apartment christ went in after ascension. Christ entered the sanctuary after His ascension but into the second apartment in 1844 to begin preadvent judgement read Daniel 7vs9-10
The Bahai Faith was founded in 1844 by twin manifestations, the Bab and Baha'u'llah (the main patriarch). At that time began the spark of many things prophesied by Christ. "Information will move at the speed of light when i return"... Samuel Morse sent out his first telegram with the message "What hath God wrought?" this is just one of many fulfilled. Also Christ said " I will come as a theif in the night and with a new name." So why do people keep looking for this big descend from the clouds?
@joeplacetas1 It is the tone in which you speak "we are saved,saved,saved,cant you get that ?" As if I didn't understand or couldn't understand. As Christians we are to give offense in nothing. Clearly something is seriously bothering you based on this response.
I would also like to say I have appreciated my discussions with you very much. I hope you don't think I'm being to bold with this new information or that I mean any disrespect. God Bless.
Please don't think me arrogant when I say this, but there is enough scripture in the Bible to prove that Baha'u'llah is not the second coming of Jesus Christ. There is just way to many signs and exact prophecies that needed to be fulfilled before the Second Coming of Christ and once He comes, the show is over for this chapter of humanity. EVERY eye on earth shall see Him coming the second time, not just a select few.
The evidence of the Bab and Baha'u'llah being Manifestations of God is insurmountable. William Sears, a Hand of the Cause and journalist, wrote a book called 'A Thief in the Night' which goes into great detail regarding Bible proofs to support these claims. Not to mention the miraculous incidences surrounding the Bab's martyrdom, that was witnessed by thousands, and even recorded in the newspapers. Baha'u'llah was an amazing person from childhood, with knowledge most grown people don't possess.
@choppingwater Keep in mind, the OT sanctuary is just a model and symbolizes the work of the Messiah. Noone's killing animals up there and I'm sure the actual temple of God in heaven (not to be confused with our bodies which are also the temple of God) is much more grandiose than anything we can possibly imagine. I say this as a matter of faith/trust in God based on prayerfully studying scripture.
I COMPLETELY understand and sympathize with what you are saying, however there are many biblical tests that we can apply to anyone claiming to be a prophet of God or God Himself and Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Baha'u'llah and MANY others do not pass the biblical criteria. Please watch the other videos on my site for these "tests". If you worship Baha'u'llah then we do not worship the same God. It is that simple. For the details on why, please watch my other videos on how biblical inspiration works.
I just don't understand why there are so many secular churches. It seems anyone can pick the parts of one Manifestation they agree with and some from another, discard the rest, call it theirs, and then build a church from it. You either except the whole word of Christ or you don't. Of course some of what Christ said was different then Moses, and so on. What would be the point in Christ returning to tell all of the same Gospel over again? One thing out of context and He
Yes, agreed. Justification, when we come to Christ we have the PROMISE of eternal life at that very moment. But you are mistaken about the investigative judgment. Read the parable of the Unforgiving Slave in Matthew 18:23-35. Pay attention to the last line.
Also read: 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
@ncdynasty All I can tell you is to study the Old Testament sanctuary service (along with the prophecies of Daniel). It serves as a model to illustrate the work of the Messiah. The Old Testament ceremonial sabbaths prophetically illustrate events in the work of the messiah as well. It all points to Jesus and the work He would, has and will do until all is complete and sin, death, the devil and the wicked are no more. God bless.
Where exactly in Hebrews 9 does it refute the investigative judgment? Please be specific in your interpretation of scripture and not vague. Thanks
I respect your beliefs and in no way am dictating what you believe. Please understand this truth. I am simply sharing my beliefs from my perspective, studies and experience. It isn't about courtesy but conviction of truth. And I don't believe I am contradicting myself on Ellen White, because I do believe she fits the biblical criteria to be a prophet/messenger of God. Please indicate how she does not or is not sanctioned by the Biblical criteria and Christ's own words.
This is were you are speaking from ignorance and I say this respectfully. The text clearly indicates that hundreds of people saw Jesus in flesh & blood after His resurrection and 3 of His apostles saw Him go into heaven, not including the angels, Moses & Elijah. Note: text says Jesus will return "in like manner". In the SAME way He went up, with a physical body into the clouds, is the same way He will return, physical body, from the clouds, but this time with ALL His glory & angels.
No, he was a visionary, and he's not responsible for what the Mormons have become. Just as Christ would not have had His word split so many different ways. What are some of the main prophecies made by Ellen White?
There is only ONE GOD, and He is shared by many faiths. You should go to a multi faith conference sometime and you would see just how much these religions, do in fact, agree. I know you said you have researched other faiths, but that makes me further confused as to how you don't see we ALL speak of the same God with the same wondrous attributes. The reason God sends down these messengers one after another is because we can't handle the entire truth at once. The only difference is what's added.
You are free to believe what you like of course. However, please do not assume that all Christians "grasp for fear" as this isn't always the case. I wasn't always a Christian and you would be surprised about my background. I've investigated the major faiths for quite sometime before comfortably, reasonably, and logically believing Christianity is the Truth period. It is based on logic, reason, LOVE & reverence for a Holy Perfect God, not fear (although for some may be a start).
I find it ironic that people would try to do away with the 7th day sabbath, the longest of the 10 commandments, the ONLY day specifically blessed and sanctified by God in the garden BEFORE sin along with "marriage". The Father "rested" as an example to us then and it was Jesus - Son of God's CUSTOM to worship on the Sabbath with everyone. We are to "walk" with the Lord EVERYDAY in spirit & truth, but He calls us to keep HIS day Holy. It was made FOR man to draw us especially closer to our God.
It is only your interpretation of 1844 that makes very little sense. You'll need to study your bible more carefully along with the Old Testament sanctuary and the book of Hebrews. It is Desmond Fords videos that have holes in them.
@joeplacetas1 Please be respectful otherwise I will not be answering you questions. I completely understand what you are saying, but YOU know very well that we DO NOT believe in "Once saved, ALWAYS saved". Everyday we must stay connected to Christ, examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith and surrender OUR wills to His. That is the work/part we do in the plan of salvation. God does the rest to save us. God always gives us a choice in following Him or not daily. Understand?
There might be some overlap in the visions of E White and Joseph Smith, but that's only because Joseph Smith has stated a lot of truth along with error according to biblical principles. Read the history of both people and you'll the marked difference in the way they lived their lives. There really is no comparison.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
(Plus whatever else God commands, once we read and understand)
Committing sin in and of itself is NOT the unpardonable sin (they all can be forgiven). Continuously pushing aside (grieving) the Holy Spirit's calling to you & your conscience not to commit wrongs, is the unpardonable sin.
@ncdynasty "Would I be considered a christian if I do not believe all of what she is saying?"
Not sure, all depends on what you are doing. Jesus said if you love Him you'll obey Him and bear fruit (in your character, life, work, witness, etc). Do you have a loving relationship with God? Are you walking in all the light you know and understand?
@ninnzbinnz You don't know your bible very well. The sanctuary was given as an example by God to represent the work of Christ. The high priest back then entered into the Holy of Holies once to consecrate it with the blood of animal BEFORE dealing with the daily sacrifices, likewise, when Jesus ascended He consecrated the Holy of Holies once with His own blood, and then intercedes daily for us as well. Study it out as God says His way is in the sanctuary as an example to the work of Christ.
I agree with you that animal sacrifices are done away with. The 70 week prophecy of Daniel predicted Jesus's 1st coming and why the sacrifices would cease. This is why Jesus is called the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and why the lamb offering without spot was used in the animal sacrificial system. It POINTED like a shadow to Jesus.
Now, this really bothers me. Out of respect for MY beliefs, you should have capitalized Baha'i. If you're not going to even lend me common courtesy, I don't see a reason to keep up this discussion. Besides, you're contradicting yourself because Ellen G. White isn't a prophet either, and is in NO way sanctioned under Christ's Word.
5. The Jews in AD70
WE can never be perfect on this earth in our human form but it is because of the righteousness of Christ and the example he set for us to follow, that makes us AIM to be perfect.
Be perfect as your Father in HEAVEN in perfect. We are on Earth. The best thing we can do is AIM to be perfect. Christ will make up the rest. He that endures and overcomes temptation will receive a crown of life. God bless you all to the TRUTH
Read another translation (Ex: Amplified Bible) How do you interpret was is written below?
John 5:24I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life. And he does not come into judgment [does not incur sentence of judgment, will not come under condemnation], but he has already passed over out of death into life.
Then you're problem is NOT with Seventh-day Adventist teachings on the Invetigative judgement, but with some other groups version of it. Bible clearly teaches that EVERYONE (saints and wicked) will stand before God on that day. ONLY those who truly abide in Christ will not be condemned (no verdict of guilty as Jesus's righteousness is accredited to us). Everyone else will stand WITHOUT the blood of the Lamb on there behalf and be punished according to their works.
When Jesus Christ died, He nailed the Old Law to the cross (Colossians 2:14). Christ made the Law of Moses obsolete and replaced it with the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). Paul explained to Christians in Galatia that the Old Law was cast out and replaced by Christ's New Law (Galatians 4:21-31). The regulations about clean and unclean foods were jettisoned, along with rules for animal sacrifice, ritual washings, annual feast days, SABBATH OBSEVRVANCE, and a host of other ceremonial trappings.
God's Holy Law that He spoke with His own mouth and wrote with His finger never changes. If it could, Jesus would not have had to die on the cross for you or I.
Check out bibleuniverse DOT com's free prophecy course and watch the videos. I think you may enjoy them.
mmmmm... It saddens my heart to hear you say this. You give the One, Omnipotent, Ever Forgiving, All Knowing, All merciful God to your Faith and the ones that came before, but none after. Do you not think the Jewish Faith feels the same way about yours? They do, or they would have excepted Christ and wouldn't be Jewish! Christ was not excepted widespread until MUCH time had passed, so I'm not surprised at your skepticism. However, I plead you not to deny that I believe in the same God as you.
I agree, the worst of us can be saved by God's grace, however, and I'm not saying I know the threshold, a person can come to a point in their life where it's mighty dangerous to reject God's saving Grace and be lost. Noah & the Flood, Sodom & Gmorrah for example. Today is the day of salvation. I pray everyone makes that choice now.
Because he's ganna further expose himself as a Jesuit and end up lost if he pursists in his errors. There is nothing wrong with feeling bad for those who will be lost if they dont repent.
@ncdynasty So you don't believe that our salvation comes from Jesus Christ alone as a free gift of love? You don't believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God able to reach the hearts and minds of humanity. You don't believe the 10 commandments at a minimum are an expression of the type of God of Love we serve and that He has given us power through the indwelling 3rd person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit to obey all His commandments and precepts?
It's very scary to except, or even want to hear new information like this I'm sure. Think of it like an earthquake. You will grab what is closest to you in fear (and rightfully so ;) when perhaps there is something sturdier just beyond your reach. I fell that as long as you have God in your heart, than He has done His job, for ALL religions speak of the same Almighty. To know and love God is #1 is it not? Whether it be from any of His chosen ones, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, Baha'u'llah.
She's responsible for bringing about health reformation. The medical/nutritional world has barely within the last few decades proven much of what Ellen White taught on health principles. She's prophesied numerous events during her time. There are many testimonies from doctors of her day who investigated her while actually in vision as well.
Ellen White is not the second coming of Jesus. God always sent a prophet/messenger before some major event of His doing. ; Moses;deliverance of Israel, John the Baptist/1st coming of Jesus. I believe the same can be said about Ellen White. The SDA church is a fulfillment of Rev 12:17. The church & E White are fulfillments for the longest time prophecy in the Bible. (2300 days/years)
@99percentatheist - Clearly you are ignoring - "But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Rom. 14:10, NKJV."
Only those found to have been living in Christ will be found not guilty (No condemnation for those in Christ Jesus). I pray you allow God's spirit & word to live in your heart & mind making Jesus truly your Lord of your life and not just Savior. God bless
Annual feast days - You are correct, these were specifically given to the nation of Israel, happened only once a year and were to commemorate things like their deliverance in Egypt. All of these are done away with, for they also foreshadowed the work of the Savior. They also act as a prophetic timeline for the Christian era as well. We are living in the time of judgment according to revelation, the jewish anti-typical "day of atonement". Laodicia - last church age - judging of the people.
No offense, but this proves nothing. The Bible says satan can transform himself into an angel of light and that the very elect of God can be deceived unless they immerse themselves in the Word of God & His Son Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit. I will get that book that you suggest and read it so I can more thoroughly address the statements within.
Read this: tinyurl(DOT)com/2j2uyd, it is specific with bible prophetic time.
I have two videos on here that speaks about prophecy tinyurl(DOT)com/yrqxk5 & the true church as well tinyurl(DOT)com/yqbjuo (Lots of resources on right hand description pane of this page)
@99percentatheist,
Hebrews 10:26 says: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." This proves that intercession for these sins is currently being made. If atonement was over, the world would be over. Nobody could repent. As long as "repentance" exist, "atonement" must exist. You can't say 'atonement is complete", but yet still be able to repent. That's impossible.
I agree with you. I thought I should remind you that our "good friend" contradomingo is not for Doug Batchelor like I assumed, or perhaps you assumed as well. I learned in an email very quickly that he as well is vehemently against the 1844 Investigative Judgment. =/ His arguments against it come from Calvinism, that we've all been "predestined". Unfortunately it is impossible to see the Investigative Judgment when you're filled with the error of Predestination in your mind.
Let me ask you this, and let's use common sense and reason. So are you saying when Jesus died all of a sudden we can eat unclean animals and it is healthy for us like cockroaches, rats, lice & pigs.
Yes this man knows all about Hebrews 9 & John 5:24. One thing you must understand about the judging of the saints that is going on right now. It is not for God's benefit (He knows all things) but for the rest of His created beings that they may know & understand His ways. IF those who call themselves Christians have put their trust in Jesus making Him Lord & Savior of their lives, the judgment will show this & then their is NO condemnation to those who believe.
As I have as well. Much of what you've stated I've investigated for myself as I had many similar questions before acknowledging Christianity and Jesus Christ as the absolute truth. There is much scholarly information to investigate origins of our belief systems to derive this truth and my prayer is that more people would ... do the homework. :) God bless you as well friend.
To all having IJ related difficulty; please obtain "Sanctuary Path To The throne" and study. Easy? No, it requires work. Re Dan. 8:14 "sanctuary will be cleansed"; how about; "restored to it's rightful place" does that help. In Rev. 11 "rise and measure the temple (sanctuary)", here again, study the sanctuary. The Millerites neglected this work. Consequently, they had to endure ridicule.
God bless all.
GS
The unpardonable sin is grieving away the Holy Spirit to where you no longer feel a need to repent of your sins. If you have no conscience due to pushing the Holy Spirit away, you will feel no need to repent. The following text describes this:
Luke 12:10
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
@choppingwater According to the pattern given us of the OT sanctuary and the words of Christ Himself, Jesus is "seated at the right hand of the Father" so He is ministering in the Most Holy Place. He is not in the courtyard (symbolized by His death on the cross) nor is He in the "holy place" (2nd compartment), not to be confused with calling the temple itself the "holy place".
Ritual washing - So are you saying we shouldn't wash our hands anymore? ;) Jesus addressed the Jewish teachers on this point primarily because they were imposing there man made regulations on others as if it had some merit to make a man "spiritually" clean with God. That's all that was. There is no requirement to "ritually wash" however I hope all can and are able to ritually take a bath/shower daily... for hygenic purposes. ;)
@ninnzbinnz Sorry friend. I don't agree with your interpretation of things here. Study out the 70 week prophecy, the 1260-1290 year prophecy and the 2300 year prophecy that ties them all together and compare against the IT sanctuary services. You are making the scriptures say more than they do. Jesus is in the Holy compartment serving as our high priest daily bringing our petitions mixed with His righteousness before the throne of God according to scripture and the OT sanctuary pattern.
WOW! Pork is safe to eat?!?! Last I checked with doctors and nutritionists it fits the bill of the most unhealthy thing you can put in your body. Ever heard of trichina and a number of other diseases you can get from eating undercooked pork. God made pigs to cleanse the fallen earth, not for man to consume. Even secular atheists who CARE about their health understand this. Marriage has ALWAYS been 1 man and 1 woman in the biblical sense. Polgymany is never right in God's eyes.
Multi faith conferences while being VERY good for brining about unity among people and eliminating religious bigotry and hatred, only makes it easier for some to compromise on certain elemental truths of their faiths. If you would like a list of things that our God requires of us because He has saved us, be happy to send it to you to compare with what Baha'u'llah says. Then you will see the incompatibility. Only 1 faith system can be %100 truth, they all can't be, which is it?
I understand what you mean. Those were my sentiments as well and when I finally investigated the bible and the Christian faith, I was convicted to find a church that obeyed ALL of it by the Grace of God, not just some of it. The 10 commandments are too plain for the Christian. Jesus taught keep it all in spirit and truth. There is letter of the law which we should naturally obey and then there is the spiritual aspects of the law. Much like police officer granting you grace/pardon for speeding.
"The unpardonable sin is to reject Jesus Christ as the son of God and his death on the cross for our sins and the Gospel of Grace.."
That is what we are to accept yes in order to be saved. The unpardonable sin is to consistently REJECT the Holy Spirits pleading on our hearts and minds to accept the Son of God as our Savior. So I'd have to agree more or less.
WHAT!!?? Brother read again.
Read Daniel 9:26, 27
@LambAndTheDragon no one knows exactly how much time is left. We just know most of the signs the Lord has given have come to pass already. There was a great spiritual awakening to the truths of the Bible around the world. It is referred to as the second great awakening by most Christian circles/historians.
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
the sacrificial phase of Jesus has taken place back then at his asention. also
for our hearts to be sprinkled from an evil contience could not have taken place if SDA 1844 is true jesus never entered the holiest. heart represents the ark which contains the commandments. hence no new covenent by the SDA. SDA fools
@ncdynasty "Would I think the same way if I read the bible without a prophet or prophetess to guide me?"
You'll have to answer that one for yourself. I can safely say that I do think the same way having read the Bible for myself before ever investigating the writings of Ellen White.
What a judgmental comment and condemning spirit. Just an fyi:
1) This presentation was an expository talk for a Sabbath school class based on ONE of 13 lessons for an entire Quarter on the subject of the sanctuary and 1844.
2) Want an in depth explanation? Study you Bible.
3) Care for an Adventist complete scriptural view point? Grab any of the often free materials online from Adventist websites on the matter. Sabbath School for example.
@ninnzbinnz ... No New Covenant for SDA? Are you even aware what the New Covenant is? "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people." (Hebrews 8:10) On the contrary - if you have no law (or think them void) you have no New Covenant. Typical ... all justification with no sanctification. Cheap, easy grace.
@ncdynasty "Why do we have to believe in the investigative judgement? "
Because it is biblical.
I don't believe you fully understand nor have studied out the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment from an Adventist perspective fully to sit here and try to say the Bible refutes it. Especially when scripture is full of stories of the Lord and angels visiting man to "investigate" before pronoucning judgment. Remember the story of Sodom & Gmorrah with the angels and Angel of the Lord visiting Abraham for example.
@99percentatheist,
Sleanos is right. As long as Christ is our High Priest, he is "atoning" for us. The role of a High Priest is to "atone", or "make intercession". The atonement of sacrifice was complete, but that's only part of the grand "atonement". As long as sin exists, there must be an intercessor. Second Coming of Christ = End of Atonement. As soon as Christ steps out of the Most Holy Place, Probation for all humanity has closed.
Jesus spent quite a bit of time proving to some of His doubtful disciples that He really did return from the grave after the crucification before ascending to the throne of God. Read the account of Thomas. And No, Jesus DID NOT come in 1844 as the Jehovah Witnesses teach. Jesus makes it very clear the signs and manners of His second coming. There is still some prophecy left to be fulfilled before His second coming as well.
To know to do good and yet NOT do it, it is sin. Sin leads to death. (I know you don't need the scripture reference for these two powerfully paraphrased scriptures.)
We'll keep you in prayer. Study study study His Word. Ask for wisdom from God. :) God Bless.
I to see a difference between a prophet of God and a visionary. Joseph Smith was no prophet of God for he used methods clearly condemned by God Himself for his visions and mormons place Smith's words above the bible when in conflict. Ellen White had visions and dreams before the people, not in secret and everything she says is to be tested by the Bible itself, not the other way around.
"Did Jesus ascend to to His Father at the resurrection?" - No not immediately. Jesus speaking to Mary after the resurrection: Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
It is God's law of Love & Liberty (10 commandments) that was written on stone in the old covenant and is written on the heart in the new covenant. Forgiveness and divine strength to obey God is the new covenant. Obeying God in your OWN strength is the Old Covenant. Yes all the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament are obsolete, I agree. The 4rth commandment is NOT one of those however having been made in the garden along with marriage BEFORE fall of man.
Very simple:
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
He came the first time as a man, He will come again as a man this time in ALL glory & power and with His countless mighty angels.
"On that day" IS judgment day. It is not subjective to when a person passes, but will occur after the second coming of Christ for ALL. There is too much evidence from the apostles that speak of judgment day in the future tense, a judgment day (one day) for ALL. The bible calls us all to be perfect, to continue to strive in the faith, progress heavenly upward in heart and character by the Grace of God. To NOT do this is to go the opposite way. Grow in Grace friend. THAT is the message.
@BlueCatsRock I don't always, but I try and it is only by the Grace of God. Thank you!
@MyHopeisJesusChrist yes. The investigative judgment now that ends just prior to the second coming of Christ. Then the executive judgment by fire after the heavenly city returns down to earth where the wicked and eventually destroyed forever.