The WHEEL OF TIME episode 3 FULL REVIEW and discussion
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- LOOK HOW THEY MASSACRED MY BOY!!!
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I knew this was going to derail once the barmaid was going to be brought in and you didn't disappoint. XD
I was howling with laughter at that scene, it made no sense from beginning to end. First she threatens Rand with a key, as if it was a knife. Next he allows her to push him aside like a little kid so she can pull the sword on him. Then she talks about how she is waiting on Mat, I suppose she wants to keep both of them under guard in that little room, however she forgets that she locked that indestructable door of hers so he couldn't even get in to allow himself to get captured like Rand did if he wanted to. Then she is nice enough to allow Rand time and space so he can knock down the door instead of putting a stop to it with the sword. Once Rand gets outside of the room and he runs into Mat, both are running scared as if she had a gun, instead of a sword. They were running from her as if she was some kind of supernatural slasher from a horror flick. No one in the entire village gives a crap when a woman they know is chasing two strangers with a sword in hand. Once she cuts them off they act as if they had their backs to the wall instead of just running in a different direction. And all those people they had to evade while they were running from her just seconds earlier suddenly they are in this abandoned part of the village where she can go on this rant unnoticed until she is not and Thom kills her.
My best guess is that the writers wrote that scene as if a sword was a gun. If you replace the sword with a gun it all makes sense, like this it just completely broke my suspension of disbelief and it's why episode three despite far less technical flaws like pacing and bad cgi is my least favourite episode so far. What was a 5 or 6/10 became a 1/10.
They turned Thom into a cowboy, so I suppose it makes sense that it's a "gunslinging" scene
It's still a terrible choice, but it makes sense in a stupid kind of way.
Thank you! It was the most off-putting crap I've seen yet. The nose ring aside, is she supposed to be an Olympic runner? Did the writers not understand that Rand and Mat have longer legs? And aren't attached to each other? What an awful scene!
@@svensorensen7693 I assumed all dark friends just like her were very stupid in the books too, I said to my friend would not you wait for Mat to comeback first, then lock them in while they are asleep and then call Fade... My friend replied that's why she is a barmaid!
@@brndnwilks Watch the chase scene again. You will notice that twice she doesn't follow Rand and Mat when they take a turn, but takes a different way. And when she "catches" them it is by already waiting in front of them when they come through the clothes hanging on the line. She simply has the homefield advantage of knowing the town while Rand and Mat once have to double back from a dead end. So that part is believable. And Rand and Mat could of course escape by simply running away the way they came, but that is why she mentions she has called a fade - basically "Give it up, boys. Even if you outrun me, you won't outrun him".
@@gildor8866 they should have just shouted darkfriend. Here is the barwoman carrying a sword and chasing people. They'd kill her. Or mat and rand should have picked rocks and threw them at her. She is a normal girl lmao not superman
This is to address why Nynaeve cut the little flower when preparing her poultice instead of plucking it. Plants heal from clean cuts much easier than torn breaks. She's an herbalist and she's minimizing the harm she's doing to the plant as much as she can so that it can grow back. She's used to harvesting herbs from her local area. It makes a lot of sense to not overly damage the flora so that it can grow back quickly and be ready to use again.
Also, in actual early texts dealing with herbalism, druidry, magic, etc. the tools used for gathering specific ingredients were very important. You would have to gather a given plant under a certain sign using a silver sickle prepared especially for the task, etc.
The point about it being easier on the plant is a great touch, too and makes a lot of sense. I didn't see anything odd about that part of the scene at all.
I don't have any herbalism points on my stats and her cutting the flower out had a professional feel to it and I thought that was a nice touch even if I couldn't put a finger on why XD
Very interesting insight
Yes! Also, I can say from my own experience with gardening and harvesting, sometimes a delicate little flower holds on much stronger than one would assume. I've torn too many branches off and even uprooted some plants because I thought I could easily pluck a flower with just my fingers. It's bad enough when a plant that can be regrown (from seed or cuttings) is damaged or killed that way. Nynaeve would have been trained to be even more careful with wild plants that couldn't be easily replaced.
In the first book Egwene was actually able to light a fire once, Perrin found her after Shadar Logoth next to a fire. Later he asked for her flintstone, but Egwene explained that she had lit the fire with the One Power. She was not able to repeat it with success.
*She couldn't seize saidar.
Edit: *She couldn't embrace/touch saidar.
Exactly, but she also had many lessons with Moiraine at this point; the show skips this aside from that 1 time.
@@PQBMO she had a couple lessons with Moiraine, they are split up at Shadar Logoth 11 days after the story begins in the books.
@@Adam_okaay which meant about a week of lessons.
Although lighting the fire was mostly a fluke, hence why she couldnt repeat the feat.
Lol, I just got past that part in the book. Thanks for reminding me of it. 😆
Yes, but if remember correctly she couldn’t do it in the scene with Perrin cause she didn’t have control yet
"It is post post post-apocalyptic, it is so post-apocalyptic that it is pre-apocalyptic!" Shad presumaly.
They turned the Glee-Man into a Gloom-Man.
I took Thom singing a Dragon song in that particular town as some level of disdain for the people there considering how he thought of them killing that Aiel after a rewatch
Besides, it pretty effectively establishes how good of a gleeman he is cuz he shut everyone up even if what he did is the equivalent of singing about Hitler in a synagogue
I mean, he’s not wrong. The Black Plague was an apocalyptic scale disaster. I believe the current estimate is the 14th century bubonic plague killed between 15-40% of the world population, within that between 30-60% of Europe’s population.
But nobody’s going around saying we’re living in a post-post-apocalypse, now is there?
There is a tale in wot of mosc and mert shooting arrows of light across the sky mosc moscow mert aMERCica arrows of light missles (nukes)
Mat climbs onto a roof, and uses his sling to knock down a piece of wood that was holding multiple barrels. The barrels roll down the road, splashing mud all over the White Cloaks
And then Rand talks some smack to their faces while showing off his heron-marked sword.
BALLS
Rand and Matt in Amazon's Woke of Time = Runs screaming from a barmaid.
@@jarredbarrios6891 Rand was high with a fever at the time because of major character building at the time. They haven't shown any of that progression. So no hints at all? Or just no action for the males?
@@RexFuturi both?
The real dragon reborn were the friends we made along the way.
Are we inclusive if we also make some darkfriends along the way?
@@erikrungemadsen2081 Oh, I think the constant assault on and twisting of our culture and heroes is making quite a few friends go dark.
The Real Dragon Reborn were the friend we gentled along the way?
@@hege6300 😂
@@erikrungemadsen2081 Asmodean: "Aw, thanks".
Moghedien: "Screw you all!"
If dark friends start chasing people with nunchucks, I’m either done, or I’m all in, I haven’t decided.
Sam: Here is a weapon from the ages of Legends that the greatest fighters used.
Gren: You called them "etardray sticks".
Sam: Not my problem.
I would love to see that. The show at least would be entertaining then.
@@bobbob2604 you know that’s true 😂
It would lead to a sharp decrease in darkfriends
The wood chopping scene was ok until Matt when into the the inn. Book Matt would have said the same thing, but as soon as the first axes swing he would have started stacking the wood. Matt may complain but he was always there for his friends.
Exactly. Early he was often petulant and a bit selfish, even after the danger was removed. But he never failed his friends
There actually is a scene in the first or second chapter where he gets roped into helping Rand with a chore, he complains, Rand tells him he doesn't have to but he helps anyway.
yeaaaah, but I saw that as him feeling the first signs of the dagger turning him into an unlikeable character
Something I kind of noticed too. This show has Matt as being quite the downer. I picture him as someone who runs from responsibility but is a bit more cheerful in outlook. Such as he would have helped Rand but in a way where Rand does most the work. Or if he decides to leave and help out inside he wouldn't have been so negative towards Rand and come up with an excuse to help out inside because its probably a lot less work than swinging an axe.
@@MordethKai its in the first chapter(not including the prologue), if memory serves the first time Rand and Tam head to town...to me Mat was always the 'trickster' as he was always about playing tricks and having fun, but he did have a semi-serious side where he helped his friends, in the show hes just nasty even before Aridhol
I don't think the creators know what a cloak is... They they left out every cloak that was in the books except for the half-man's.
whitecloaks not having white cloaks is completely unacceptable
@@FlameG exactly, they're supposed to be white cloaks, not white dresses.
Cloaks? What are those? We will have the next best thing coats! Coats for everyone!
My personal theory for that sad excuse of the gleeman's "cloak" is that the writers / costuming department didn't understand *why* the cloak has the colorful patches. The cloak is the gleeman's uniform; it works as an advertisement that a gleeman is in town. For a traveling performer getting all eyes on you is literally how they make their money! It seems that whoever made the decision to put the patches on the inside of a regular coat didn't understand this and just included the patches as a lazy attempt at "fanservice", but since they had to make everything dark and drab they switched the patches to the inside where they would be mostly out of sight, completely missing the point and resulting in a "gleeman's cloak" that you can only recognize for a split second when he's sitting down.
Gleeman were half bard and half circus performer, they were entertainers who did everything from magic tricks to telling stories. A gleeman would get free room and board at inns because of the customers they would attract, and when walking around town Thom advertised where he was staying justifying that arrangement. Thom's instruments were the flute and the harp. In order to make Thom cool and edgey for a modern audience they butchered a considerable amount of lore and worldbuilding.
My theory is that the coat is reversible for convenience.
@@benalo13 My theory is that it didn't look "cool" enough so they ditched it.
Seriously, they can't even get the details right. It shows how little they care about the books.
Very disappointing for a Gleeman. *sigh*
@@benalo13 i thought this was also in the books, as he reversed it when with the boys and when not wanting to be noticed, but had the colorful patches on the outside when he did and was playing his aprt(pun intended) i could be wrong about it being reversed but it would make sense
I’m with Shad on the sword thing, it does not take much force to do a lot of damage. Children and women with knives, or in my case a damned pencil to the kidney, can do significant damage. The dents left in my vest testified to that!
Anything is a Weapon if you're determined enough
@@Voron_Aggrav john wick pencil style lets gooo
@@Voron_Aggrav lan said that right
That and in get books they show how sharp the heron marked blade rand carried is, it wouldn't have taken any force at all to penetrate.
The reason the barmaid's motivation annoyed me so much was because it was so similar to Ishamael/Moridin's. He wanted escape from the endless turning of the Wheel which he saw as a prison, and desired oblivion, so much so that the Dark One saw no reason to punish him for his failures any further than to simply resurrect him, he hated existence so much. What's annoying about this is that Elan Morin Tedronai was one of the most acclaimed philosophers of the Age of Legends. He came to this conclusion with all the knowledge available to him from the Age of Legends, plus his own brilliant philosophical mind. The only other person who even considers destroying the Wheel as a preferable alternative is Rand, but Rand in this case had access to Lews Therin's memories and knowledge (also from the Age of Legends and including Elan's arguments) and was already almost terminally insane. The idea that some backwater barmaid living in the Third Age would have access to the level of knowledge regarding the Wheel and the education needed to pose the questions and come to the same conclusions that Elan did is almost laughably stupid.
Ishamael is also the only person on the Dark's side that has that motivation. Every other Darkfriend is motivated by power, wealth, immortality or even despair of defeating the Dark One.
I assumed she had talked to or been influenced by Ishamael somehow.
Shad - “look what they did to my boi”
Oz - “again…welcome to 2021”
Shad - “but Mah son!!!”
Nice!
Personally I would like a company to make an animated version that stays true to the book
WoT and ASoIaF would be dope.
Me too. I feel like they could do twice as many episodes, with the same amount of money. They could also make the characters perfectly line up with the book description.
@@Adam_okaay World of Tanks
I looked it up, the average cost per episode in this show is $10 million. While a good animated show costs about $100k per episode. We would not need to drop any story lines, or effects. The show could have as many episodes as needed to tell the story.
that was always my thought on WoT. I always thought it could make an amazing five or six season animated show.
11:00
If shad ever uploads a "wheel of time review" and it's just shad screaming for 5 minutes until he loses his voice, we know what happened.
He came back form his War council and is still in WAR.
Shad, also, Nynaeve tells the story about her master being turned away from the Tower: This means she KNOWS being able to Listen to the Wind means she can channel, so Egwene not knowing is a plot hole. Her not knowing is a plothole. Also, the Tower needs Aes Sedai, they don't turn people away at the door because they're poor. LOTS of women in the tower - incuding Siuan - are from humble backgrounds.
You're making up your own plot hole. Nyneave was not from the two rivers in this show, she was also an apprentice under a wisdom who'd gone to the tower. Unless Nyneave told Egwene this which seems unlikely before her apprenticeship even began.....
Many women who could channel were turned away from the tower too weak or wilders. Since an Aes Sedai did not find her and she went because she could channel she could have been turned away as a wilder. Nyneave may think its because she was poor, the wisdom may even have thought that but it's likely because she was a wilder. I'm not saying this is how it went for the show's background just that it's all possible and not a logical plot hole. There are a few pretty gaping plot holes already logical inconsistencies, let's not go around making up more.
No, it's not a plothole (yet) because Nyneave always knew she could channel since the books started, she just had a block on the information because she's afraid.
She knows, but refuses to acknowledge it.
She has no reason to tell Egwene if it's info she herself is repressing.
Assuming they keep her block as part of her character, there is no plothole.
On her story about the White Tower refusing women that seem too low born, yup, that's an issue. But let's see if it's even true first.
For all we know the old Wisdom could have been lying (for one reason or another), that's still a possibility.
If we indeed see the White Tower, and it happens to fit the description the old Wisdom gave, then yes, now you can complain about something that is idiotic.
But until then I would personnally refrain from concluding on it.
People seem to assume everything characters say is world-canon.
Like Liandrin in episode 1 opening.
Which it obviously isn't.
@@arenkai "For all we know the old Wisdom could have been lying (for one reason or another)"
Hell, she could simply be mistaken or remembering wrongly when telling Nynaeve the story.
@@TheHomicidalTendency The point is, Nynaeve knows being able to Listen to the Wind means you can channel. She knows Egwene can Listen to the Wind. Egwene knew she could Listne to the Wind. Egwene did not know she could channel.
She also said her master went as soon as she knew, it's not like she'd been doing it her own way for years.
@@gokbay3057 You know, I've come across this exact response to things I've noticed on the show many times. I point out something somebody explicitly says, and somebody says, "They're just lying." At this point, I've if everyone I've noted saying something is lying, there's only about one person telling the truth in the show. In the absence of a reason to believe a character is lying when they're saying something explicit, we should assume they're telling the truth. We have no reason to believe Nynaeve or her master were lying at this point.
Shad sitting on top of the Titanic sinking while on fire and everyone onboard is turned into zombies "I don't think this ship is a lost cause, but of course there are issues"
That turning of the wheel arguement is so pervasive amongst the stans of this show I just shake my head.
It is full-blown copium.
why is it usually the woke types who say cringe shit like that tho
@@anonymouslyopinionated656 Why would they criticize their fellow travelers? They've all drank the koolaid which is why everything they touch turns to shit.
@@anonymouslyopinionated656 I have seen countless franchises that I love go straight to the gutter and every time it is Leftists that are not only fine with it but actively defend the decisions and aggressively attack any fans who are not okay with it. I believe it has to do with their beta cuck complex. It makes them eat whatever garbage talentless hacks feed them with no complaints. It pisses me off that they are like this. These people have no critical thinking skills. Just braindead consumers.
@@ChickenBiscuits dunno about that. I'm on the Left and I'm beyond mad about how disrespectful and reductive this "adaptation" is. The Left isn't a block or a hive mind, it's comprised of a very large number of individuals with their own sets of personalities and opinions. I'm sure if you went out and surveyed people who've seen this show and cross-referenced the data with their socio-political leanings, you'd find lots of people on both ends who like the show and lots on both ends who hate it.
The world is so small in the show. The implied distance from the two rivers to shadar logath is like two to three day ride.
In the book it is over a weeks worth of traveling.
Logain is captured in Ghiladan which is in another country from the two rivers area, yet it seems Lan finds the sisters coming from there in like a day.
Mat: "i need to go back to Jakku"
Egwene: "I'm the Dragon reborn, You gotta deal with it"
Thank you for the laugh.
Adding to Shad mentioning that The Dark One uses carrion animals as informants, one of the characters in a later books places a bounty in his army on rats and ravens. The soldiers don't believe in fades and trollocs but they're happy to take the coin. I just thought that was cool.
That's also standard operating procedure for people in the north, isn't it?
@@danielsaines602 I think Borderlanders do it for free though I'm not sure. Also can't wear hoods in case you're a fade.
@@CatsAttackAgain Yea, it's free. They do it to protect themselves from scouting. I forgot about the hoods. Jordan was such a good world builder.
I'm actually mad that they skipped the events of Brerlon. The introduction of the white cloaks Mins intro and the fade that attack rand in the hallway not to mention their hasty retreat when Moiraine did her illusion bu the gate. There is so much being cut yet I can't understand why they are in such a rush.
Yes!! I loved all the scenes in Baerlon! Think how cool it would be to see the creepy fade encounter in the seemingly safe warm inn hallway. Lan gets to show up like a Badass. Also we see trickster mat and the honestly unsettling part when Rand suddenly acts all confident and brazen confronting the angry mud splattered Whitecloaks, and how his behavior makes them believe he earned the heron marked blade… also we see the Emond’s Fielders stunned at the massiveness of small town Baerlon, and the more worldly party members snickering at their naivety. So far in the show we get no impression that these country villagers are experiencing culture shock being exposed to massive crowds and cities for the first time. Arrrrrgh 😡
Egwane does light a fire in the first book after escaping shadar logoth. However the next day she fails to do so because she didn’t have the ability to channel consistently.
Moiraine taught her every night of their journey in the books.
(On the Knife thing)
Oz, what if she just fell forward and put her whole weight into it? Even if you got the time to grip the sword, it's your arm strength vs. her entire weight + sharp sword that's hard to grip since your hand is going to get sliced up. As for the kitchen knife thing there's multiple reasons why "I'd grab her wrist before she could shift forward" wouldn't work. Simple example, when preparing chicken, people rarely need to wildly swing their knifes in order to carve up the bird.
I could go on, but here's the more important thing: even if you think you could catch the blade like a ninja master, why the hell would you chance that shit? If you can move away from the blade, just move away from the blade and she'll eventually leave herself open to the point where you can disarm her without potentially slicing yourself open in the process.
(On the Polygamy thing)
Just wanna point out the cult-thinking of the illogical Feminists.
So, any one person having sex with several random people is 'okay' (Game of Thrones), having a long term incestuous couple is 'okay' (again, Game of Thrones), yet a man in a stable & permanent relationship with multiple women is 'bad' and should never be shown?
While I'm very anti-polygamy in-real-life for several reasons, it can still be interesting when done well in stories and I find it stupid for it to be removed because of people who cannot separate fantasy from reality.
I don't see a lot of "illogical Feminists" defending long term incestuos relationships. It was depicted in Game of Thrones, but never as something positive. Also, the WoT show already established an presumably stable and polyamorous relationship in episode 4, so apparently its possible to do without your caricatured feminists intervening. You might not be satisfied with the gender split in that particular relationship, but stil.
I have reason to believe they'd avoid the polygamy just by how the show develops. They avoid/removed min and they don't travel to the capital of Andor before going to the white tower and so don't meet Elayne. If cutting out the harem I think those are the two to cut. Anything that Min brings to the table can be given to the Aile girl and Elayne can be Egwene's companion and nothing more.
The only problem I see with getting rid of Rand's harem is that Min is an important person for him to lean on while he starts to go paranoid and has trouble trusting anyone else. She's basically his rock. If they remove her then they need to somehow fill that position or have some better writing than they have now.
@@peterhoelder2652 I don't think he meant to say they were actively defending incest, but more so that there wasn't outrage/cancellation/censorship
People saying wheel of time is post-apocalyptic, is like saying we love in a post-apocalyptic world, because technically we are after late bronze age collapse.
I mean... yesn't. Age of Legends was quite advanced and 3rd Age is quite a level below that. Not really comparable to us and the Bronze Age collapse.
Unless Atlantis the sci-fi Utopia was real or something lol.
It's post-apocalyptic in the same way that the medieval period was
Nyneave did not want to kill Moiraine in the books. In fact, she actually gave her herbs to help her with her exhaustion from overusing the One Power. Also, Egwene did manage to start a fire once (barely), but could not manage to do so again.
I don't think she actually wanted to kill Moraine in the books, but she does say that she wants revenge on her multiple time and a few times she even says she wants to kill her. As for giving her herbs, I'm pretty sure that's just her general compassion
@@lordofdarkness4204 well yes, she said things like that in anger, but I don't think she really meant it. And she did give her herbs partly out of compassion, but also as a competition to prove she didn't need the One Power (obviously unaware, at the time, that she was sort subtly using it, anyway) and even got a compliment from Moiraine about how they were actually helping her. But I don't think her hatred for Moiraine had progressed to the point of revenge or murder by this point in the books. I've been rereading it along with the show and I've seen no signs of such behavior just yet.
@@SpiderboyN2Jesus It's only after Nyneave and Lan fall in love that Nyneave really resents Moraine as she knows that Lan will never leave Moraine and abandon his duty. Nyneave's personality will not allow her to share Lan with anyone not one hair or toenail clipping
And the 1st thing moraine said to nyneave girl, and in the books nym is very prideful person in books so that’s what begins the dislike
Came here to write the exact same thing. Good job
General rule of thumb for fighting someone with a gun or knife, stay as close as possible for a gun and as far as possible for a knife. You don't want the blade to ever touch you anymore than you want someone to have free control of a gun. Oz is delusional if he thinks a woman cant stab just because... what? She doesn't have a running start? Bro, chicks kill their boyfriends with tiny pearing knives, and you think a KATANA would make it harder for them to stab? I side with Oz like 80% of the time, but c'mon dude, you sounded like a kid stating he'd, "just do x and knock out everyone."
A sword is actually less dangerous than a knife in such close quarters, especially when wielded by a woman, if Rand just grabbed something to parry the sword he would have easily overpowered her.
@@TomFranklinX yes.. to parry the sword
but when the sword is already resting on your chest.. i wouldnt act up either
back up.. maybe..
When I was in EMT training the cops and paramedics we shadowed/talked to always said they were most scared of knives in close quarters. The damage a blade can easily do to your insides is just gnarly. And a woman would be almost as dangerous, maybe even more so bc it’s unexpected and they have true element of surprise. It doesn’t take that much strength to do a lot of damage
@@TomFranklinX sure but the sword's already against your chest they have won in that position it's like if I have a gun to your head trigger pull is faster than you can move out the way my dude
Sorry, Oz, Shad is right about the sword stuff. From someone who has studied fencing and won tournaments, Shad is right.
From someone who hasn't studied anything at all, Shad is right lol. Takes no effort to push a blade into flesh, have done it to myself by accident many times 😅
yeah i dont know what that Oz is on about... xD how can he not ahve learned anything about how dangerous swords can be from being around Shad for taht long
One nick of an artery and you’re dead without knowing it. Assuming he knows the magic of that sword (doesn’t need to be sharpened), he knows it’s life or death.
I could be wrong, but Oz gives off the impression that he believes that women are effectively worthless and that no man could ever be threatened by a woman. I swear, the guy does not hear himself speak. I have my suspicions as to the reason he seems to think this way, but I'd rather those suspicions be false. But I know certain world views encourage archaic, misogynistic beliefs.
That was the dumbest argument Oz tried to make, he would be dead in that scenario.
Along with the "it's a different turning off the wheel" people, I really dislike those saying they "had" to include Egwene and Nynaeve as candidates for TDR because it adds mystery for new viewers. Why couldn't they have had the same level of mystery between which one if the boys it is, like what they've done with Mat in episode 4?
Because how, oh _HOW,_ would females ever be interested if the show didn’t bend over backward to say “Oh but _you_ could be The Special, too!”
Ladies. I implore you: WHY do you let these writers and producers treat you like you’re not just dumb, but self-centered?
If someone says it’s a different turning just ask them why everyone has the same name and body
Yep, plus reading he books, it's super interesting to see Moiraine having her little training sessions with Egwene. I saw how very strong the book women were and it has definitely passed the woke's sacred "bechdel test". They could have done a straight (haha pun slightly intended) adaptation and it would have been very 'progressive'... but noooo... they had to ruin it.
@@Adorni because the women pushing this type of attitude (feminists) are all malignant narcissists, and they project their narcissism onto every other woman.
It's not even a mystery in the books from our perspective. The prologue cuts from Lews Therin blowing himself up directly to Rand. Thats pretty heavy handed imo and at no point was I under the impression anyone other than Rand was going to be the Dragon Reborn. As the book goes on its even more readily apparent as we spend more time with Rand than any other single character. At the end of the prologue we learn the dragon will be "born of a mountain" and not 100 pages later we learn that Tam found Rand on the slope of a mountain. Its pretty obvious Rand is the main man before they ever even flee the Two Rivers, before we learn about anyone other than Rand being important and before we even learn about the Dragon Reborn proper.
I don't get how "people don't believe the prophesy" is an excuse because _Moraine_ believes them 100% and she's the one relaying the information.
That is interesting because she doesn't in episode 4. She should know Logain isn't the Dragon without a doubt. He is too old and wasn't born near Dragonmount. And yet they have her question it. Just no. It is without a doubt he isn't the one.
I also don't understand how that somehow means that you can change the gender of the dragon because "people don't believe it completely"
@@roguegn It doesn't make any sense. The lore of souls in this world is they are always born into the same gender. The Dragon will always be male the same way Birgitte will always be female and her lover Gaidal will always be male. It also makes less sense when you consider the fact Moiraine was there to witness the Keeper foretell the Dragon has been reborn and she used male pronouns. Of course, this is a huge issue for the show so Rafe decided to change that up entirely, and instead, it was some blind lady? This isn't about the people not believing in the prophecies (even though it came from Aes Sedai foretelling which is always right) but instead being woke.
@@ChickenBiscuits It makes sense because they changed it from how it is in the books, probably for the sole purpose of having more possible candidates that can be the dragon reborn and actually making that a bit of a mystery. Seeing the fact that 'ppl can be reborn as a different gender' as "woke" is just really dumb as it's just an idea that's not relevant. Like, who decides what is wrong or right in our world, being reborn with the same gender as before or being reborn as a different gender? So, like I said, calling it "woke" is just dumb.
I agree that in the books it seems like ppl are reborn with the same gender, but does the characters KNOW that? In regards to the foretelling and prophecies it could just be changed for the show to not tell anything about the gender. Or: "the prophecy says "he", but lets not take any chances"
On Thom Merrilin, no glee man's cloak, no harp, no flute, no appearance in the first episode, They did not even give him at the least a guitar harp, as an interesting modern nod to the harp. Major points of his character development condensed into basically a cameo. Now onto Dana, a minor male character in the book got shoehorned into the female assassin, and the creepy inn keeper that tried to imprison Matt and Rand, forcing Rand to unknowingly channel for at least the second time in the books.
Basically the series is really trying its damnedest to make those that have never read the books into believing either Egwene or Nynaeve is the Dragon. An attempt that if they cared about the content of the books would never have been perpetrated. Moraine had to basically tell both women they could channel, neither knew though Nynaeve had an inkling that Egwene could even though she herself was unaware that she had been channeling. What I found weird in an episode yet to be discussed is that apparently they decided that female Aes Sedai, according to Nynaeve's story from the first episode, are not desperately trying to find any woman that could have the potential to at least light a candle due to dwindling numbers. Also, that they are unable suddenly to not be able to recognize a woman that will start channeling unaided, or has been, without being taught, for example Nynaeve is in a camp full of Aes Sedai and none approach her to tell her she can and offer her training at the Tower. Another unnecessary change I guess to support the inequality in social status change.
Apparently the producers, show runner and executives at Amazon have forgotten the one essential element in producing a book into a series. 98% of the original audience will be those that have read the books, Game of Thrones comes to mind, who in turn will tell their non reading family, friends and other acquaintances the series is worth watching which will grow the audience. I could never recommend this to someone that has never read the books.
Also it is important the way people perceive gleemen as almost a "fool" because people talk openly around them and they get into places "normal" people can't. Gleemen can mingle with commoners or nobles. You definitely don't get the vibe cowboy Thom can pull that off.
Well, we only get to see this Thom in a scruffy miners village. Gleeman (actually every entertainer) adapt to their audience and the folks here don't seem like they would care much about high chant. So he may still surprise us should we meet him again.
@@gildor8866 Thank you, Finally someone who get's that part. In the books Thom even complains about this since he much perfer to use the high chant but these establishments don't.
I have no idea why you would believe that.
You see Thom mingling with commoners and talking with a bunch of country kids, and you conclude he can't also mingle with high-society.
It's in the name for crying out loud! GLEEman! A man who brings GLEE. I doubt a bunch of hard-working manual laborers looking for some entertainment after a good day's work would have the same music taste as a bunch of angsty teenagers.
In the books, Thom is able to get them free rooms just do to the fact that he’s a Gleeman and the innkeepers are happy to have a gleeeman entertain the patrons because then they stay longer and drink more. Thom talks in the high brow voice to prove his bona fides, but then adapts his act to the local audience.
I just want to point out that in book 2, it’s established that rand and egwene know they won’t end up together and rand still has the constant urge to protect her. So, him wanting to find her (and Perrin) is completely within character.
Wanting to protect her, absolutely, but Shad is right about them making him a simp. Of course that wouldn't be an issue if they hadn't changed their relationship from romantic interest to having sex, or change Wisdoms from usually not marrying to having a vow of celibacy, just one example of small changes having a ripple effect.
Rand already knew from when he first met Min in Baerlon, about a quarter or a third into the first book.
@@Lttlemoi no he didn't. Min told him she wasn't for him. But that was literally a complete stranger walking up to you and with no context telling you that you and your SO aren't meant for each other. You wouldn't believe it.
If Shad turns into a dragon, I have a list of people and places he can reduce to ashes...
When first I heard of a live adaptation of Wheel of Time, I was worried.
Then I heard it was on Amazon Prime and all my worries disappeared.
I don't have Amazon Prime.
I do love these indept reviews of each episodes. It is almost like therapy.
Shad's raging voice is very cathartic
How did they blunder so hard on Tom....for real so sad what they did to him
Oz said it perfectly. They went with modern day "cool".
Never watched it but in my head he was basically Ian Anderson from Jethro Tull. I shall continue to not watch.
Been reading lots of comments because it's more entertaining than trying to watch the show, and I'll be kind enough to say so far, and I see a bunch of defenders who seem to really like the adaptation of the wheel of time wiki page. God bless you all and I'm happy that you're happy with the show.
From what I see, a lot of us in the comments, including the Shad and the gang, are not at all fine with what's going on with the tv adaptation, and saying that we should just watch and appreciate it because we are never getting another one is just not an argument. By supporting (giving money) to these so called 'adaptations' we as customers are telling the hollywood degenerates that it is OK for them to get all these works of art, fuck them all over, sell to the 'fans', and we the fans will pay and thank them for it.
Just no. Thank you. I'll go read a book now. Or watch some more youtube probably.
Nyniave and Lan’s subtle chemistry through the episode is PERFECT, and really saves it for me.
The important question I want asked/answered: How does Rand get his scabbard back? It's removed in the Inn, and never retrieved. Yet he has it back afterward. The little things that damage a brain.
they were in a rush, but not in too much of a rush to not grab their stuff
Because they wrote it that way, duh!
1:34:39 You might be based, Oz, but you're not fast enough to save yourself from a thrusting point levelled on your chest. It takes very little force for a sharp point to penetrate cloth and flesh, easily causing lethal damage. General rule is distance = safer/better.
Takes no more than the equivalent of 10-20 Newton to pierce flesh with a blade. That is almost nothing.
Aren't these guys farmers?
Rand doesn't even own his own sword, and it was his father's from a box hidden under his bed, so he probably doesn't even know how to really fight.
(Excuse my noob-ness, it's been 25 years since i read the books)
@@RedFordMustang71 maybe. But he still fought a trolok just fine, relatively, not to mention as a shepherd he'd be used to fending off predators/thieves from his sheep, using sticks, rocks, slings, bows.
Not saying he's used to sword fights but his occupation alone (let alone being a troublemaker) would have gotten him somewhat used to being in a tussle.
@@RedFordMustang71 You're right. Lan teaches him for several of the books.
If I remember though he's a natural because Lews Therin was a sword master
Stick!
The tiny barkeep running after and catching Rand with her tiny legs and awkward run was unintentionally hilarious.
Take a sharp blade and see how easily it slides into the flesh of a pig. I understand your argument of her not being able to build up enough power but the human body without armor is quite fragile and It doesn't take much to pierce the flesh. We know that sword is sharp, we've seen Rand's father uses it. I have to agree with Shad that he would of been better off doing something when she backed away from him.
Important to realise that swords are typically not as effective at slicing as small blades (pressure over larger area) but in general yeah it's still pretty easy to slice something with a sword.
In the books it was, for lack of a better term, magically sharp. Rand cuts his thumb just lightly touching the edge. Lorewise, it would of been like a knife through warm butter.
He probably only uses dull knives to cook
The three boys find the idea of attacking women abhorrent. The first time they encounter 3 Aiel maidens of the spear in stedding tsofu (sp?) and they are advancing on them aggressively with weapons, mat and Perrin refuse to attack them. Rand reluctantly prepares to defend alongside Ingtar. Earlier when a female darkfriend attacks channeling!sick Rand and dagger!sick Mat in a stable and try to kill them, they only tie her up and leave her there, bc the idea of harming a woman is so wrong. So I understand why Rand would be extremely unwilling to hurt the innkeeper in the show.
@@radrose4864 When he attention is turned he could always attempt to wrestle the sword away and apprehend her as was done in the books. Instead he runs away and when Thom kills her neither Matt or Rand have a strong objection to it and so its hard to buy that they don't like harm to women in the show. They only come off as cowardly.
1:25:00 and yet in episode 4 the Tinkers were able to identify the Two Rivers folk just by looking at them. Which is clearly an internal plothole based on how the Two Rivers has been represented.
Dude they like felt their aura man stop being such a bigot. You just can’t handle diversity. The books never implied Two Rivers was a homogenous backwater isolated from society.
@@JeffPenaify Literally everything you said is wrong.
@@TechnoMinarchist I’m being sarcastic man I’m sorry that wasn’t obvious. Dark times indeed
@@JeffPenaify prime sarcasm here...
@@JeffPenaify Sorry lol. It looked like the kind of argument I'd literally see on r/WoTShow
Thom Merillin is my favorite country singer and thief, the guitar is really fitting in a mostly medieval setting and thats definitely the voice of a court musician :)
In the books, the Trollocs attacked the village with virtually no casualties. In the show, the village is practically destroyed and many are injured and dead. In the books, Nynaeve completed her duties as a village medic, made sure that she would have a temporary replacement, and only then went to look for four of her charges. I went on the road and on horseback. In the show, Nynaeve did not seem to return to the village at all, leaving the villagers to fend for themselves and following the four on foot. Or she just ran aimlessly.
In the show, they made Nynaeve's character irresponsible and unreliable.
And in the show, Nynaeve can overtake a horse on foot.
I can honestly see them play the show out as if it's the same Dragon as the books and then pulls the rug from under us in the last season to "subvert our expectations". Noticed that we haven't heard any quotes from the prophecies yet. They're keeping it vague aside from the fact that he's supposed to save the world.
Have to admit, this is something that has been bugging me a while. Make the fantasy world as diverse as you want, but it has to make sense. The Witcher show has pretty much the same issue as I'm having trouble trying to make out what cultural or linguistic distinctions each country/region has and in the end the lack of compelling and relatable world building makes the whole thing feel like a big budget school play.
Here is the sense for you ... in 3000 years from now everyone is mixed ( fair or dark-skinned people are just a different shade of same mixed race) Jordan said there are no races in wot only nations!!!! then breaking of the world happens and all these already mixed races people are scattered all over the planet, particularly Seanchan who arrived even more diverse than any nation seen ever before, Seanchan people skin tone was from charcoal black (Tuon ) to fair-skinned ( Egeanine ) !
@@Berndr which again does make no sense in it's own. if that would be the case everyone would be dark skinned. but then again, it's magic, so I don't have to explain shit :D
@@bigeye6606 absolutely not true... the mixed parents can have kids with completely different skin tones from fair light to very dark ... My best friend has an English white mum and an African black father... except for curly hair not much on him has any black racial features, he even has his mum's blue eyes ... whilst his two youngest sisters were darker and the youngest one was the darkest literally charcoal black like Tuon skin tone! yet the same family! yet Jordan already said there are no races in the wheel of time so I don't have to explain shit either
@@Berndr But we know that's not true in the books as different peoples, like the Sea Folk and Two Rivers Folks, are distinguished by their skin tone and general look. And if you take people who are not completely homogeneous, which was not the case before the Breaking because the Forsaken have different skin tones and looks(Semirhage is black and tall and Graendel is a blonde bombshell), and keep them fairly isolated for prolonged periods of time, they will form physical characteristics recognizable to a region, they will "racialize".
The Two Rivers is supposed to be a backwater village that rarely gets peddlers let alone serious migration(until later in the series). Queen Morgase even says the Two Rivers hadn't seen a tax collector or Andoran soldiers in several generations. So the black people and Indians we see in the show, who don't number that substantially, would have had to inbreed for a long time to maintain that skin color. Rand is supposed to be the odd man out, but instead we have this unbelievably diverse setting that doesn't make sense in-universe. Sure, once they leave the Two Rivers we'd begin to see an increase in different people, though still more limited than what we've seen as far ranging travel and settling would still be very difficult in a medieval setting.
As for the Seanchan diversity, that actually does make more sense, since Seanchan was conquered(colonized if you like) by Artur Hawkwing's armies which consisted of every nation in the Westlands that he had conquered(white, black, and everything else). And Seanchan itself is a massive landmass which no doubt held diverse groups of people that all came under the sway of a single Empire.
@@brndnwilks This is the exact line from the book: Two river people were dark-skinned folk with dark hair and deep dark eyes! I am sorry but this does not sound like a white race to me ... and there are several occasions when Jodan does contrast how Dark Nyneave and Egwene look next to fair-skinned Elayne! the problem is Jordan never ever really says how dark nor uses the word race in his writing for you to be sure! Even Tuon who is obviously described as black, Jordan never actually says she is black or brings her race into it! To me, Halle Berry and Beyonce easily fit Jordan's description of Two river folks as well as Madden and Zoe! They are dark in contrast with Elayne yet fair in contrast with Tuon!
I was a little sad that they gave Nynaeve so many chill pills. Granted, she was a lot more aggressive in the Two Rivers...but still. And it irritates me that she doesn't have a braid. A ponytail of braids isn't the same, especially when she's the one so stuck on it that she keeps her braid until the end, refusing to be molded out of her traditions by her adventures.
I heard that one of the episode directors worked on Star Trek: Picard and I really enjoyed Redlettermedia ripping it apart.
What?
I mean..I shouldn't be surprised, the episodes do look like they were butchered by people like him.
"They just forgot about the Trollocs" translates very well to "Danny kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet"
On the herb picking; sometimes you might not want to bruise something or tear the cells of a plant until it is in the mix where the molecules will combine with the other ingredients to form specific compounds rather than react with air which might negate the effectiveness. That may or may not be BS, I really don't know I'm not a chemist, but she was probably taught not to just rive ingredients out of the ground but to treat them with care before preparation, besides there is such a thing as pride in your craft and respect for your tools and materials.
Its more that plants heal easier from clean cuts rather than a tear. She was taught to not do unnecessary damage to her resources.
The fact that your two non-reader co-hosts can only remember who Lan and Moiraine are - I think it was last episode that you asked them the question Shad, and then were dismayed that they couldn't really tell the others apart - reminded me of an adaptation issue you have only touched on slightly in your discussions so far. Basically, I'm worried that this Wheel of Time interpretation will try to make Moiraine and the Aes Sedai the main protagonists, or at least downplay their recurring roles as antagonists - not necessarily villains mind you, but just acting as opposition because they have their own goals - and try to justify their duplicitous and secretive natures. This is flat out wrong and will ruin the story. The heart of WOT's popularity is based around the idea of a close-knit group of rural/small town friends, who set out on a classic adventure where they rediscover ancient knowledge, become key to the reformation of the White Tower, and save the world. If Moiraine in particular is made central to the plot and is too perfect in her motivations, then it robs Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve of their great arc as they fight to reform the Aes Sedai from being so disconnected from the world's populace, and from the Tower seeing everyone as at best pawns or at worst fodder in their political machinations. Also, it immediately turns Rand and Mat's instinctive questioning of Aes Sedai authority into a huge character flaw, instead of sometimes showing a strong and important independence in their personalities, while also acting as an immaturity that makes them difficult to unite - i.e. a nuanced approach to their characters. How will Mat's iconic reply to the Amyrlin Seat sound if the Aes Sedai are presented as a genuine moral authority in the world? He says: "I am a free man, Aes Sedai. I am no Aes Sedai meat." That is a legendary scene and line, beloved by the fans, but it will not work unless Moiraine and the Aes Sedai are shown to be deceptive, treacherous, untrustworthy, and to have a rigid hierarchy that is blind to the inevitable change that is happening right in front of their faces (the existence of Wilders, the need for male channeling, etc).
Without giving away too much in terms of spoilers, in the books there is an arc where a group of Aes Sedai treat Rand in unimaginably cruel ways for an extended period of time. And Moiraine's reaction to this lengthy torture is to just dismiss it. Seriously. She only worries briefly about the effect this might have on her plans for "the boy", because he won't "listen to her now". Even Moiraine's warder, Lan, recoils at her callous disregard of Rand's humanity. Meanwhile, Egwene and Elayne respond to Rand's terrible suffering by caring about him as a friend and a person, and their simple - often rural and rustic - values make them relateable to us, the reader. Not so with Moiraine. She is cold and unlikeable, because that is what Aes Sedai are: distant, manipulative, and operating under their own agenda, which likely serves only the interests of the White Tower.
Simply put, if you make the Aes Sedai organization as it exists at the outset of the story into the central protagonist - which is likely being done to meet an activist agenda - then you transform the world of The Wheel of Time into a horrible authoritarian dystopia, instead of the "fun adventure with young, underdog heroes who grow up and change the world around them for the better" style of story that it was meant to be.
Pin this comment knight watch !
If I remember the first book correctly, with the exception of the time that the group is separated, Moirane is the main protagonist. She leads the group, makes the decisions and pushes the plot forward, the others mostly just follow her. It is only a bit less obvious in because she is never (IIRC) a pov-character. So I wouldn't worry too much there (yet).
@@gildor8866 I would not describe Moiraine's role in the first book as the protagonist. She is more the "call to action" device and the unifying goal-setter for the group. That is important, but it doesn't make her the protagonist - especially not the *main* protagonist - in any sense of the term.
@@gildor8866 no, you're not remembering it correctly. Rory is correct that she is more of a call to action device. In fact, it could even be argued that she was drawn to the Two Rivers because Mat, Perrin, and Rand's pull was so strong that she was led there at the right time.
@@RoryMitchell00 oh, what's worse about everything you just said? Rosamund Pike is an executive producer of this series. I mentioned this in my comment on Ep 1, but I was late to the party.
Will Pike's ego allow her to follow the story where her character is essentially gone for a large chunk of the series? I'm worried that it won't.
No Mordeth = no theft of Matts dagger = no trip to falme = no saving Egwene from the Seanchan = #Error
This show is setting itself up to go wildly different I think. They’re either gonna have really lazy ways of getting the characters to the right place or they’re just going to make it completely different. Either way I’m not happy personally
Mat: "Is that a Barmaid...?"
Rand: "SHE HAS A SWORD!"
Darkfriend: *Wildly flails with zero technique*
after having a few very bad days, no matter what i did i couldn't cheer my self up and when i saw the new review was released i got a smile on my face, thank you so much knight's watch
Yeah, enjoying Shad's reviews. I got kicked out of Daniel Green's discord after years for saying the word Gypsies, when talking about tinkers.. So it is nice to have a new place that isn't absurd.
@@CMKloser are you serious? for saying Gypsies? since when was bad word? i beginning to wonder in the future if the word men will bad too in the future
Its a sign of the times when it is far more entertaining watching your peers review and tear apart a Tv show, than ever actually watching it.
PREACH!
The turning of the Wheel excuse is stupid because that wouldn't change the fact that the One Power has gendered halves. If my memory serves me the One Power is part of what makes the Wheel turn; it is not something that could be changed from age to age or rotation to rotation.
@@doublethick5752 Unfortunately changing the prophecies long ago wouldn't change the prophecy from the DAY the Dragon was reborn, "He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"
That quote is from Gitara Moroso, an Aes Sedai with the gift of Foretelling, at the moment of the Dragon's rebirth. And the real kicker of all of this is that Moiraine is present when this prophecy is first spoken.
@@doublethick5752 There was mystery enough when no one knew which of the three boys was the Dragon.
It's also retarded that Moraine has to question Logain because she dismissed Nynaeve as a candidate for being too old.
The show changing the book for reasons not associated with the limitations of the real world or money is just stupid. Period. How many of this show's writers have written a best selling fantasy book? How many of these writers have written stories selling 80 million copies? None, none of Amazon writers have anywhere near the proven record of Jordan. Don't change something made by a better artist.
@@doublethick5752 Of course they say the changes are fine, their paychecks depend on the show doing well. And as for "no one has more input" that doesn't mean jack if the input is ignored. What evidence do you have that Brandon's input had actual impact on the direction of the show. Clearly his input on the Perrin changes were ignored.
Where did I say, trust me? Oh that's right I didn't. I said trust Robert Jordan since he's the one that's written a story that has sold 80 million copies. Which of the writers of this Amazon show have done that?
@@tekkblade82 thank you, my feelings are exactly the same Jordan is the mfer who wrote bestsellers. I keep telling people, the reason why Harry Potter, LoTR, GoT were such generational mega hits was that they adapted the generational mega hit novels as faithfully as possible. The fact Amazon couldn’t do this with a significantly deeper pool of resources is disgusting
I hate how they take it as a form of pride to be without characters from the book. You read the description on Prime and it says verbatim “Robert Jordan’s, ‘The Wheel of Time’ book series, has 2782 named characters.” And it used to say “luckily for the writers, this show doesn’t have nearly as many” but it seems they’ve removed that. They’re proud of the husk they’ve made it.
I mean, some of the named characters in the book are literally "random Aes Sedai number 52" but with an actual name. Who is just mentioned as drinking tea in one scene and never appears again.
And for some reason rather than realistically having names that were repeated (as the real world works) Jordan really adhered to the "one Steve limit" so there are people with one letter differences in their names but noone with the same first name because reasons.
@@gokbay3057 Aye, but sometimes 'random Aes Sedai 52' becomes important 3 books later, but with Jordans passing we'll never know how the series truly ends.....
Sorry, Oz. Shad's right about the sword/dagger to the chest situation. Your confidence with this one might get you in a worse hurt than with the choke hold haha
I've seen enough IPs destroyed by Amazon and Netflix to know what to expect. But Shad's description of the books has spurred me to try the series when my next annuity of Audible credits kicks in
Wheel of time fans using 'adaptation' as a license to fuck the source material is golden. It was funny to see Shad strain to see the good parts of the show in the past 2 episodes, but the line has been drawn as it should!
Keep up the watch! This is the only review I look forward to, and probably the only one that I will check from now on.
I own all the books and I'm terrified to watch the show cuz I know they'll butcher it
@@adamboyt5028
Me too
@@adamboyt5028 Just watch it please. Don't let these people affect your opinion. It's well done and a great adaptation of the books.
I can't help but assume people hate the show before it came out and are looking for things to hate.
For example, Thom is a character that wouldn't work in a 2021 tv climate. An old man with a bushy moustache that can still do flips and parkour, while also being a master at politics. As a fan of the books that would be a ridiculous character to rbing to life.
Making him younger, replacing the harp with a guitar and giving him more of an old cowboy feel is a great change to the storytelling. He is still the same character and does the same character beats like sacrifice him self to fight the Fade and tell the story of Owen to increase the tension around male channelers and the results of gentling, so I really don't understand the complaints.
Is it a different telling of the story? Yes. Is it still Wheel of TIme? Also yes.
@@adamboyt5028 The important thing is you still have the books. You can just watch the show while in the toilet, or if you wanna feel a bit angry or sad.
@@MistaZULE na bro, this "adaptation" is terrible and pretending that's it's not will only embolden these people to continue destroying IPs. If we continue to accept trash that's all we're going to get
Don Corleone "look how they massacred my boy"
Thom without his whiskers and colourful cloak is like, Logen Nine fingers from First Law with ten fingers and no ugly scars. They're changing too much in terms of appearance and overall character.
Edit: reply to Dark Gaming 666 youtube is hiding my reply for some reason, I said ye I'm likely exaggerating a bit but ye they are changing too much and it's not even for the better that's what's so frustrating.
Oh gosh the change is that bad? I haven't read wheel of time but I've read the first law and that seems unforgivable
@@DarkGaming-xj9ly The changes thus far (and this is just my opinion, so I may be overly harsh) have been done in such a way that they add nothing to the story.
Nothing is improved.
Nothing is explained better.
Nothing is altered in such a way as to even save much time, really, because, as Shad mentioned in a previous episode of KW, just a line or two here or there would make more sense.
Many of the changes up to this point seem to be about giving the women, who ARE VERY IMPORTANT in the story, even MORE emphasis and importance than they needed to have to get the story across. It's not necessary to entirely change characters' personalities and backstory to improve the story.
Yo, Shad, Egwene does actually channel in the first book. That TV scene was pretty pulled entirely from the book. She starts the fire right after Shagul. I think it takes her a couple tries if I am remembering right. But you are right, her and Nyneave are pretty infant channelers all throughout the first book. What Egwene does with the fire is pretty much the most she ever does till later on. Moraine teaches her how to use the power a tad along their trip.
She was only able to channel close to the river.
@@christianphillips7220 Yeah that's the only time I can recall her managing anything in book 1. Which if I recall correctly, Egwene was strong in fire to begin with, no?
I'm about 2/3rds of the way through the first book. I remember her complaining that men were stronger with earth and fire than women are, but other than that I have no idea.
@@christianphillips7220 I just checked the wiki, and she's strong with earth, decent with fire, and strong with spirit. Yeah she's pretty novel to be strong with things men are usually strong with.
She had training with moiraine tho for every night of their journey.
The wheel of time should’ve been given to a Japanese animation studio. Japanese artists know how to handle long stories with dozens of important characters. Examples, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, etc etc etc.
There are the Comic books, at least.
I always thought that too.
Yes, please! So long as it's a good studio anyway, but Japan certainly has a better chance of doing this story justice.
Perhaps not a Japanese one (Japanese people have a tendency to not understand a lot of the symbolism from the west, and vice verse, because its completely separate cultures, so you could get some very strange bullshit coming out of a japanese adaptation) but yeah, animation could work extraordinarily well for it. And just good handling of the books in general would make it way better. Disney is ham fisted as fuck.
Lmao the japanese will just fuck it up
Egwene actually does channel fire in the books. When she and Perrin meet up, she tries to light a fire and can’t, stating “is was so easy before” or something like that.
Basically, before she met up with Perrin she did channel to light a fire, but the next time she tries with Perrin it doesn’t work. I think they should do something similar in the show, where Egwene tries to channel again, but she isn’t able to. That would show the nature of learning how to channel, how you can’t reach the source every time, and even if you do you can’t always make something happen with it.
Moiraine taught her every night of their journey in the books.
@@RespectTheSourceMaterial I didn’t actually think about that you are 100% correct.
Shad: Look how they massacred my boy.
Oz: Maybe Amazon made Harriet an offer she can't refuse.
She shouldn't have accepted
which one? the old perv with SM mustache and cloack stolen from the only gay in the village that just loves to hang with young boys?
Why has no one mentioned the complete omission of Thom Merrilin whose purpose was literally help fill in characters and vicariously the reader of the lore of the world ?
Also- he spent a lot of time with Rand and Mat, and taught Rand to play music, and Matt- to juggle balls (and use knives?). Those were important skills for boys survival early in the story.
An important point to bring up about the Aiel is when the chieftain is getting a second wife, he isn't that thrilled about it and it is all being handled by his existing wife. Going back to the idea in the WoT that women have a lot of the power.
On the Aiel
I love how Jordan made his desert nomads Scottish
Red and blonde hair, pale skin, light eyes, etc.
I always found that hilarious
Right ... because we know people who live under the strong sun such as the African continent have naturally red hair and fair skin!
@@Berndr And that's why I love them
Despite an Africanish climated homeland, they're not African. They're their own thing
Honestly, I always viewed them as having Mediterranean/Middle East skin tone, but otherwise Celtic features and almost leathery tans on their exposed skin. Also due to The Breaking, not every civilization would be located in their natural habitats.
@@Berndr yes but they weren't native to that land. That was simply were they fled to after the breaking
@@saidin0111 Well if I am honest your view is closest, Jordan said People in two rivers were dark-skinned folk with dark hair and deep dark Eyes ... on several occasions, he made a contrast how Dark Egwene was next to Elayne ....for me that can be any mixed race, any olive-skinned nation, such as Arabs or dark Mediterranean and even gypsies... but never ever white as everyone keeps saying ... Jordan never said Two river folks were white ...
The Oz-Shad sword argument is reminding me of the headlock debacle. Only way to prove it, get on it Oz!
Oh yeah, Thom Merrilin🙈, playing a guitar for lights sake, I hope they make him closer to the character in the books, since he plays a big role as a mentor for almost all main characters. Also, where the hell is Elyas Machera? Perrin’s encounter with the wolves was pathetic
As Shad said, there are characters that appear occasionally but still play a big role
WoT breathes the notion that there are "No small parts."
He should have at least been playing his flute
They're gonna make Nynaeve the Dragom Reborn. Mark my words.
There's 5 different collections of prophecies in book that center on the Dragon and Tarmon Gai'don. The Karaethon Cycle, The Jendai Prophecies, The Prophecies of Rhuidean, The Prophecies of Shadow, and The Essanik Cycle, all of which are collections of Foretellings. In TSR Moiraine actively tries to get Rand to drop the Aiel as "they're a distraction and have nothing to do with the phophecies of the dragon," the Aiel in turn dgaf about "The Dragon" even though they're the people of the Dragon. All of these Prophecies are also super hotly debated in the books because no one agrees on what they mean, understanding of the nuances in the Old Tongue are vague at best and most translations are rather dubious, not to mention none of them account for the more recent Foretellings regarding The Dragon by the likes of Gitara Moroso and Elaida.
Remember there are Shaido Wise One's who passed through the Crystal Pillars of Rhuidean and survived yet believe Couladin is the actual Car'a'carn, like what? The Prophecies of the Shadow are all fulfilled, yet Moridin/Ishy had no idea that they don't foretell the Shadow's Victory.
Jordan when asked about why Moiraine and Hawkwing's comments on the Horn of Valere are contradictory replied, "oh you think Moiraine is right about everything do you?" So I don't know why you'd take show Moiraine or Liandrin's (especially Liandrin) opinions as the in world Canon rather than just their opinion. For example book readers know who the Dragon is, the beliefs of certain characters whether true or not have 0 impact on whether or not the Dragon could actually be female in this turning, it was 100% always gonna be Rand and anything about other Ages is little more than flavour text in the grand scheme.
remember, in the books, what counts as "truth" in the aes sedai's oath rod is what the aes sedai herself *believes* is true, not necessarily what actually is true.
@@1estel1ch.42 Exactly what I'm getting at. Shad on the other hand took something a Sister of the Black Ajah said in the cold open of E1 to mean there's no Saidin... Like what? No saying there isn't dumb stuff in the show, and 0 continuity errors, but some of these "huge lore issues" Shad sees are literally meaningless. That Ta'veren thing though... Whaaaa?
Yeah people having issues I’m ok with… when there actually there and not fabrications of there own mind.
THANK YOU.
@@Adam_okaay also, Saidin and Saidar are named in the X-Ray animated which were done for the show
Assuming Saidin and Saidar aren't in the show is asinine.
Plus, the showrunner has already confirmed that we will hear Saidin be brought up in season 1.
People still complaining about this just didn't do their research and fuel their anger with air.
Wait, did they make Ninaeve an orphan that was brought to the village so she can be the dragon? Because if she was born in Emon's Feild she could not be the dragon... I mean I don't think they care all the much about the prophecies but still. I'm getting to agree with Oz, they are going to make her either some kind of dragon equivalent or just outright the dragon, that's why they made her an orphan.
Also isn't it a major effing deal hen the Seanchan come over that they are black, one of Tuon's major characteristic is that she's Ebony black (wonder if they are going to change THAT character's skin color lol)
That could be it...
The only other reason to possibly change her backstory that I could come up with is just so she didn't learn anything from a man, which, though in line with current politics, seems kinda dumb, they could've easily just changed the word "father" into "mother" if that was the reason, because her parents aren't characters ever seen in the books anyways.
The imperial westerners with their enslaved women being led by a black woman would probably lead to the series being canceled.
Also will we get a white Julian Sander.
Nynaeve was actually an orphan and was raised by the Wisdom...however she was from the Two Rivers and she did know her parents very well.
This is from the prologue named "Ravens" which was the prologue to the 2nd half of the split version of tEotW named "To the Blight."
@@filam7371 it is stated in TEOTW by Nyneave, that her father taught her to track.
They ran from girl with sword because they've seen the sequel trilogy
Oz, you need 3 pounds of pressure per sqaure inch to penetrate the skin. The point of a sword would go through you just using it's own weight, if nobody was holding it at all.
Rand fought a Trolloc... and ran from a barmaid.
Here's a problem that I've noticed. There have been two cases of characters singing a song in this show so far. In BOTH cases, the songs were new creations, despite there being songs in the books that would have been EASILY adapted for the show. For example, the party could have sung "Coming Home From Tarwin's Gap", which could be changed slightly or explained that it was a song from Manetherin (which is what they say it was probably from in the book). For Thom's sad song, it could have been "The Wind That Shakes the Willow" with NO CHANGES AT ALL. It tells you something when the writer cares so little about the source material that they either disregard it, or don't realize that the material they need for a scene is already written for them. Also, I agree with you, Shad, about the shorts. Critical material should be in the main story, or the main story is worthless. At 59:20, you reminded me of Thom using a freakin' GUITAR... I HAD managed to put it out of my mind, at least temporarily.
The reason for this is simple, as the lyrics of the songs are copyrighted material under the Wheel of Time™ every time Amazon would use any of these songs, they would have to pay additional royalty fees to Harriet McDougal, Robert Jordan's widow and editor-in-chief. And of course stingy Amazon go out of their way to minimise the costs and keep the budget in check, thus the results we saw in the show.
Hell, just look at them giving Perrin a wife when they could have had Alsbet Luhhan, smh.
@@MordethKai Perrin get's married in the books to a real bitch.
@@insanehippiehippieinsane3828 opinions aside that's not a relationship he starts with. There's this thing called character development, skip it and you lose half the story.
Guys guys guys..the shows great..all you have to do is suffer a severe head trauma,shut off your remaining brain cells,ignore realism,ignore accents,ignore character and plot inaccuracies,ignore blatant modern day messaging with the nuance of a sledgehammer,lick a few batteries,squint your eyes,plug your ears,scream at the sky and the shows perfect...its another turning of the wheel y'all.
Couldn't have said it better. This show needs to be hit with balefire
I’m on Oz’s side
I’m fully expecting them to do the worst thing possible.
Pessimism is no fun though enjoy life be a little optimistic. Leads to disappointment sometimes but I find that better then always being down.
I hope he checks out the books at some point so he can at least get some enjoyment out of this trainwreck.
@@SolitaryLark Oh I’ll be laughing either way, in relief or hysteria. I’m optimistically hoping they’ll botch this so I have an excuse to not watch it anymore lol
What they did to Thom is unforgivable.
Nynaeve father was a hunter and he taught her all her skills so tracking him down is well within her backstory
Wait I now remember that they killed her parents off early in her life so she shouldn't still have those skills so the show made it changes make her ability to track lan don't make sense
Can't have her learning those skills from a loving father figure.
I was so confused through this whole episode because I was trying to figure out where they (mainly Mat and Rand) were geographically; in the books they all devise different strategies to find each other that take them through very different areas, but here they all somehow end up in completely unrecognizable terrain that makes them look vastly separated as soon as they all get out of Shadar Logoth, and since they’re all headed for the same destination, there’s no explanation as to why they’re traveling through such different landscape in these last couple episodes. I was distracted both times trying to figure out what each location was meant to be analogous to in Mat and Rand’s storyline, so I would have altered it to more closely follow the book.
First of all, I would have started the episode with both Perrin and Egwene and Mat and Rand establishing their destination, and making their plans just like in the books, with Perrin and Egwene cutting straight to Caemlyn across the plain and Mat and Rand taking the river to Whitebridge and heading east from there.
I would’ve then made it clear that Mat and Rand are staying close to the river as they travel until they get to the town, which is built around an inlet of the river. They first try to get a ride aboard the Spray there, but can’t afford it, and so they are then trying to earn enough money for passage downriver. At the end of the episode, Thom pays their way onto the Spray, agreeing that that is their best option with a fade after them.
This obviously would effect the next episode, which I would open into Mat and Rand’s storyline by showing disembarking at Whitebridge and making their plan to head east, staying off the roads and avoiding towns to evade darkfriends.
Guys, if you see this, do you think this would have improved the flow of the story?
So the Amazon Video page for WoT has an interactive map showcasing all the locations that the characters have been. If I'm reading it right, Mat and Rand are already far to the East at Breens Spring, near Caemlyn, while episode 4 finds Moiraine and Co. almost on the border of Ghealdan far back to the West and further South. Perrin and Egwene are on the Caralain Plains slightly to the North and West of Rand and Mat.
the drastic difference in scenery after the split was a bit jarring to me as well. I was thinking as to why they simply wouldn't just circle the city walls and maybe find something familiar, such as the opening they went through, to see if others also came out and survived. Instead we got one group in a wasteland, another in a forest and the others on a mountain top of which almost non look like were anywhere near this city which looked so huge it was like its own landscape.
They turned Thom Marriland into Aragorn that can play guitar. Aragorn is cool! But he is nowhere near the same character.
Oh boy you can always tell the audible listeners by their spelling. 🤣
57:52 wow, Nathan's Roz impression is perfect.
👀
Just started The wheel of Time; completely agree with you about the gleeman
They better not mess with Min's character, she's by far the best of the three.
I'm worried they will see, "wears pants, but is female." Well that's the perfect place to change this character to non-binary.
@@danielsaines602 ... Damn it you maybe right.
@@Ashtor1337 How would you feel if they just didn't make her a dragon wife? Like she's totally accurate, minus the romantic parts with Dragon reborn. So she would have another reason to hand around. Like she just find him interesting, because she can't predict him at all. He wants her around because she is useful.
@@danielsaines602 Yeah, it's too good an opportunity to hamfist some trans stuff in there for them to scrap min.
man poor Min. She was with Rand through it all. Always hated the fact that Rand has two other love interests while she was a ride or die chick all along.
this is my second comment but on the bright side the fact that they're calling it a different turning of the wheel means we can demand an adaptation of the original turning of the wheel all we want. No excuses about having already adapted it
Not watching the show yet, so it's not clear to me who's the 'they' who says the tv show is a different turn of the wheel?
@@dtzyYT Amazon. It’s their excuse for why there’s so many radical changes from the book
@@Kale13000 They're not even that radical. Do you want 70 year old Thom doing cartwheels and singing in High Chant in a miner's town? Do you want a Perrin who just stares at his axe without any dialogue and we are just supposed to understand his internal dilemna? Do you want a Lan who just has the same grim expression in every scene?
Literature, especially epic fantasy, is hard to translate on screen. We have internal monologues, backstories and world building that would either take too long or be too jarring to explain to new audiences so they are cut, condensed, or changed to fit the medium.
If you had your perfect adaptation only book readers would watch the show, the studio wouldn't make any money and it would get cancelled after 1 season. We are not that powerful of a community. I for an am happy any adaptation is being made about my favourite series and I will support it because it's probably the best we'll get in my lifetime.
@Sheldon Leahy No, I'd much prefer an edgy Thom, a simpy Rand, a wife murderer Perrin, gloomy Mat, butchered magic system,power levels and world building, somehow way less character development even with changes that were suposed to help with faster development.
It might be hard to adapt the books, but it doesn't explain the butchering that's happening. The people doing this are just incompetent. I disagree with your thinking and will wait for a true adaptation, with quality on par with the books.
@@KPhynx I can't take you seriously after "simp Rand".
Do you just use the word simp when you can't articulate your point, but still want to insult someone? Rand is far from a simp, and one could argue with his refusal to kill women developed later in the books he is a simp in the books.
The show creators are not incompetent. It's a well made show with everything looking good and book accurate. They have attention to detail like Alanna having bells in her hair because she is from Arafel, or keeping the Hidori and topknot for Lan. Yes these are simple details that any good adaptation should follow, but they are paying attention to the books and putting in the details that are important.
Calling it now, Min will be in the White Tower or an Inn in Caemlyn and we will get her whole foretelling scene there instead of in Baerlon. Does this change anything? Not at all. Will this piss off book purists? Absolutely. Why? No reason other than it's different and therefore bad.
Thom was one of my favorite characters, so I'm amazed they even decided to change him with how great his character was.
ep1 was packed to bursting: i dont think they could have put him in it without out it feeling rushed and terrible
@@andrewb2494 Even so, Thom is supposed to be a gleeman not a glooman. Gleeman were half bard and half circus performer, they were entertainers who did everything from magic tricks to telling stories. Gleeman wore colorful cloaks made of patches meant to catch everyone's attention and advertise what they were. A gleeman would get free room and board at inns because of the customers they would attract, and when walking around town Thom advertised where he was staying justifying that arrangement. Thom's instruments were the flute and the harp. In order to make Thom "cool and edgey" for a modern audience they butchered a considerable amount of lore and worldbuilding.
@@andrewb2494 it was already paced terribly and the additions (Rand/Egwene hooking up/breaking up, Egwene getting her braid ceremony, Perrins wife arc, Trolloc battle) would have saved the time to make the first episode true to the first chapter
In the books it was pretty apparent who the dragon reborn was almost from the start, all signs was pointing to a certain character, and when it was confirmed at the end it was still exhilarating to see it was indeed him. The problem with the series, is they are trying to keep it a secret and have all these bait and switches to have some big reveal, it's annoying and hurting the series as a whole, especially since this seems to be the only reason they put forth that a dragon can be either male or woman, which is just plain wrong.
I think the bait and switching stuff is kinda fine, im making my family and friends watching it and its really fun to watch them theorize over which emonds fielder is the dragon, but the woman dragon thing i do not like. The whole thing about the dragon is everyone fears him BECAUSE its a man, who will without a doubt go insane. If the dragon was a woman, there would be almost no problem, since she wouldnt be insane, and would make at least decent decisions leading up to the Last Battle.
Yep, when Nyneave catches up with them in Bearlon and reveals some details about one of their past along with all the prophesy mentioned up to that point you know who it's going to be.
Thanks for the video. I tried to watch the TV series. I switched off near end of first episode... I do however love the books and these videos , which is much more enjoyable.
Another good one, and I'm intrigued about the discussion for episode 4.
I'm just here for the reviews. I stopped watching after episode 2, because it's shit. But the reviews here are gold.
@@5h4ndt I'm just here to finally be able to talk to people about a series I love. Haven't seen a single episode of the show. :-)
This episode should have been called 'Nathan watches Mummy and Daddy argue again'
They have cast Min and Elaine at this point, and they might keep the polygamy because it was actually forced on to the man by the women, he didn’t really get a choice
And that would be keeping true to the aiel tradition in that it was completely up to the women. Witness Gaul's multi book misery tour at the hands of Bain and Chiad
Can't wait for LOTR show... I mean, EFAP, KNIGHTS WATCH, maybe Razorfist rant. I need to start making popcorn right now and store it in warehouse or something.
I was so excited to have a show of the Wheel of Time... I saw the first scene with the red sisters running after a guy.... I understood that we were at season 5+ of Game of Thrones... when adaptations follow closely the work they are made from, they tend to be pretty solid if the source material was solid.... as they drift from the source they go astray. If they started with such a scene that had nothing to do with the books, I knew I wasn't interested in following what followed. At least Game of Thrones got the first book right. On the plus side, they did save me from wasting time trying to follow what goes on.
They won't include the plot elements of men having multiple wives, but yet the Green Ajah in the Aes Sedai all have multiple boy-toy Warders. The TV show writers are blatant hypocrites, but it's that old saying: without double standards they wouldn't have any standards at all.
ikr
Have you noticed they keep axing the red heads and replacing them.
It's called gingercide. Been going on for a while now.
@@jimmykawasaki833 you sound nuts
@@Upsilon1984 Lmao. It's not literal. It's removing ginger people from movies and television and replacing them with a more diverse cast. google it.
Yeah sounds about right. I have no clue why but in the middle of all their attempts to check boxes they always remove redheads
This show will have fun with the Aiel then nearly all the population are red heads
Just to give a something to think about, in case you are wondering I'm a LEO that specializes in tech and forensics. The force needed for non sharpe screwdriver to pierce the human body is 11-16 ft lbf, a swiss army knife needs 8.08 ft lbf to pierce ribs. Skin needs less than 1 ft lbf to be cut. So it doesn't matter if the person holding the sword to you is a man or a woman they don't need that much force to kill you. As someone trained in fencing and kenjutsu most people untrained would be fast enough to beat you grabbing.