I know there's a load of nerds in the 40k community, so I'm sure a few of you read. Weather you do or don't, do yourself a favour and pick up some Terry Pratchett. Which I've kind of bastardised here, but still, go buy a book ;)
fun fact after being knighted sir terry went out and made his own sword out of peices or meteorite that again he him self collected all because he felt a true knight should have a sword and that sword is now in a museum if that isnt war hammer as hell i dont know what is
“You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!' IT'S A BOLTER, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE. 'She's a imperial gruardsman!' shouted the commisar. IT'S EDUCATIONAL. 'What if she breaks her arm firing that thing herself?' THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.”
@@foofoo3344 it's kind of agreed upon that, while other explanations are plausible, 10000 years of untold billions of people worshipping him as a God changed him deeply. After all, miracles happens all the time in the settings, even more common now that the Cicatrix Maledictum thinned the veil between the Warp and Real World.
Terry Pratchett was actually approached about writing for Warhammer at one point. (Fantasy, not 40K). Since he parodied so many fantasy tropes, he said "'I feel a bit like King Herod being invited to write the newsletter for the Bethlehem Playground Association.' ". Unfortunately nothing ever came of this, but I would have really loved to see what a Pratchett take on Warhammer looked like. It's sad that it's something we'll never get to see.
Do remember that Warhammer originally had a big sense of humour about itself. The orcs in particular have managed to keep some of theirs, though GW are trying to get rid of that in AoS. 😢
@@kostakatsoulis2922belief is a natural and arguably fundamental part of humanity. Even to those who lack faith, or even western secular society itself at large, they retain the vestiges of belief and higher principles that are vital for a running civilisation. . Respect for the dead . Funerary rites . Military and political ceremony . Morality and codes of honour and justice . Holidays, festivals and traditional practices They are ways of helping us come to terms with our emotions and impulses that would destroy us. All of them are unconnected to the rational scientific method, yet they are needed and have proved their value over the millenia. Perhaps this is because on some level we are hard wired to need these long followed practices. Whenever the state attempts to become god and removes all vestiges of tradition and belief in the name of efficiency and equality, that state becomes an opressive, murderous dystopia with no respect for human life.
I simply refuse to believe this is a Word Bearer speaking, they wouldn't be *encouraging* someone that justice, mercy, and duty are important despite not being real. Clearly Mortimer is still very much a Loyalist, one who's fought long enough to se that they are lies but they are important lies that lead to the betterment of all who believe in them and has seen what monsters people become without them.
In Discworld, DEATH (this Chaos Marine here) is the ultimate enemy of Auditors of Reality. The Auditors doesn't like living entities as they messed up everything so tries to come up scheme to get rid of them. DEATH like the livings, as it's his job to personally collect souls of important people, witches and wizards. He also like people as they offer infinite source of enjoyment.
Only Khorne worshippers are like that, if you ever read a book from a chaos marine's perspective you'd note that they have very interesting philosophies
@@OllyatlasI mean it’s very hard to do that when the “good guy” in question is constantly pained by the inexplicable urge to skullfuck the nearest living thing at all times
I mean thats Terry Pratchett's books in a nutshell right there, you start reading them because they are funny fantasy books, and then get hit with some philosophy without it seeming out of place or preachy. Guy's books are amazing, the first few lean much more into just being fantasy parody but as time goes on his books get more and more interesting with the questions they raise.
But the Word Bearer in the vids argument is essentially, there is no materialistic form of justice, no atom or natural law of it like gravity, so it’s not real, and essentially faith is an act of making real what isn’t yet, (enacting and making real by believing) My response to the Chaos worshipping prick would then be: so why’d you choose this?wearing human skin and etc.
DEATH is one of the most compassionate character in Discworld. Despite how this sound: "There is no justice. There is just me.", and he does offer some semblance of Justice. I found casting his 'granddaughter' Susan Sto Helit as a member of Sororitas somewhat hilariously as she's one of the most grounded practical character in the setting. While being a governess to a pair of kids and one of them complain about monster under their bed, she just gave them the fireplace poker to take care of the problem, as those monster can only be seen and interacted by children.
Hogfather is still one of my fafourites, but Going Postal will always stand higher, just because of OUR MISSION-chapter that taught me that anybody who uses the word synergetically needs to be distrusted at all costs.
At first death sounds like a nihilistic athiest on reddit saying something deep, then at the very end he says "You need to believe in things that arent true. How else can they become?" Which changes the entire narrative. The beauty of the human spirit and will is that we can create a heavenly order from the chaos by believing and willing it into exist. Good and Evil exists, and so many of us, including me forgot how to be good. I want to believe in that and make it become so.
What movie is this from is it called Discworld or is it from that Terry Practchet universe? Also in real life Death is our friend. She guides us to our next destinatnion
@@williamhamilton5868same and i used to be able to but life and shitty circumstsnces crushed me. Time to get back on the horse sndnbe stronger and wiser. Came here for a meme ended up with a positive philospohical reminder to stsnd up on my feet again.
The Anchorite himself remained loyal though, but still believed the Emperor was a god. But then again, he is now, 10k years later, correct. The Word Bears won the civil war.
@@Motard.Actual The Lectitio Divinitatus, Lorgar's logical proof about how and why the Emperor is a god, along with all conceivable arguments and counter arguments he could come up with after years of contemplation and discourse among fellow theologians. Guilliman penned the Codex Astartes, a methodical treatise on military warfare and economics designed to give the Ultramarines Legion a chance to hold against the combined forces of 9 other Legions on the off-chance Ultramar became the last bastion of the Imperium. THAT is the level of detail Lorgar supposedly put into the Lectitio Divinitatus; it's not baseless scripture, but instead factual evidence and logical proof as to why the Emperor should be considered a god and worshipped as such. Lorgar even dismisses the notion of classical gods as superstitious nonsense; his definition of a 'god' was something so grand, powerful and above the level of mortal man that 'god' was the only word that could adequately describe them. This is why Lorgar never abandoned the notion that the Emperor was a god, even though he later claimed he was unworthy of worship; he still recognizes the Emperor as a god by his own definition, but so are the Chaos Gods, and he preferred them due to the simple fact that the Chaos Gods did not deny their divinity or the Emperor's, and their Primordial Truth was simply that 'Yes, gods are real.' Now would I personally define the individual Chaos Gods, Chaos Undivided, the Emperor, or any of the other godly entities in the 40k universe as true gods? Not really, but I can see why some people would default to that terminology just like Lorgar did, because they are for all practical purposes gods or god-like entities, even if my bar for what constitutes a true god is much higher.
They tell you just one lie. A whole ten paragraphs of based and deep stuff and a teeny-tiny one at the end - "And THAT is what our organisation is about".
The black library could learn a thing or two from the Hogfather. It's fine and all to have Chaos be evil, but it also needs to be tempting to the reader - otherwise adherence to Chaos in the lore just come across like idiots.
Yeah it does irritate me how chaos are just written like soulless idiots constantly being duped. Wish they did more like the first heretic where the word bearers discover chaos and worship it, not because it is great and good but simply because it is and does not deny itself.
@@papajavaleri While that is true. Grr I'm evil, I sure do love twisting my mustache is a pretty low bar clear. Yet GW, seems to consistently limbo under it, completely misunderstanding the assignment.
@@Telmacheh depends on the legion but yeah even when the stakes are "this a primarch we are writing" it too often becomes "so i turned to chaos because evil seemed more fun"
Honestly I would have loved a 40k book written by Terry Pratchet. Like: and then the Navigator informed the Inquisitor there is a planet sized turtle swiming next to the ship in the sea of souls, where humans and all kind of xenos races are just chilling. The Inquisitor promptly requested a mindwipe of all on board after the revelation, only to find out that the mind wipe machine is currently on cooldown due to overuse with a note stuck on it saying: Stop the mind wipes and go do your job! Your past self. PS: we already did this 3 times it seems, the turtle is following the ship, were also out of ext-rockets. The bloody thing ate all of them
They asked Michael Moorcock to write for 40k in the early days and he kinda shot them down harshly with some comment along the lines of "itd be like a rockstar in a karaoke bar"
@@orochifire it was not those exact words but he used some kind of allegory of him being above writing for games workshop as they were small frys in the fantasy writing and gaming club at the time
While I understand the point I think that tends to get overshadowed by the fact that the majority of Chaos followers are almost always fucked in the head because of their proximity to the Warp. The warp itself is the mirror of all the raw undiluted emotional energy of an entire galaxy and the human mind cannot and should not attempt to grasp at things like it. Not to mention that the Chaos gods are pretty much all extremely malicious and destructive creatures. To feel is to be human but you must control your feelings and not let them control you.
The myth of chaos would make sense, and allow for people to do good through chaos. The practice of Chaos is one of murder and rage. I 100% agree. Just because there is potential for good is there, doesn't mean it will happen. That's the horrible truth regarding chaos.
Remember kids, “the path to hell is paved with good intentions” even in the real world. The parody in Ringworld and 40k is full of this. The chaos forces may actually be the good guys, and 40k lore is most always written to clearly reflect Imperial propaganda.
You know what I love this. If Lorgar ended up being the wisest of his brothers , he would have spoken like Death from the point of view that he sought out truths not even the Emperor knew. Using chaos as a starting point. Echoing the believes of the Priest from The Last Church.
@@Nobody32990 The Emperor is fucking stupid, especially in his destruction of Monarchia. Even Russ is opposed to it. Almost all of the Primarchs agreed that it's excessive. The Emperor planted the seed of his suffering.
You misunderstand... The Emperor understood this perfectly. He knew exactly what he was doing. But if he did it any other way it was going to end in feeding the warp. Which is exactly what he ended up doing, because the Emperor was a hack.
The emperor overestimated himself with many things. Ignoring Chaos, If we are looking at the past and existing examples of civilizations in 40k either they rely on AI or Gods. The Orks and Eldars are exceptionally powerful psykers and they all have their Gods. Species that don't rely on the Warp like Tau or DAoT humanity use AI to stay competitive or the Necron who practically have become the AI themselves. Humans are stronger than Tau but it's a marginal difference compared to the Orks, Eldars or Necron who are either stronger, more intelligent or both. Although I understand that the Emperor didn't want to rely on Gods because unlike Orks or Eldars who are strong psykers humans are weak psykers meaning a relationship with humans and a God would be one-sided. That left AI as the only option left. The Emperor refused both options but he didn't seem to have another solution for humanity to stay competitive in the galaxy.
@@minhducnguyen9276 It's not that. Humans NEED to believe in something. The Imperial Truth presents a vision of a cold, uncaring universe where in nothing you or anyone does matters. It is a crushing vision of the universe in which even the Emperor's grand Imperium will ultimately not matter. Even if the Imperium lasted a million years, it would still crumble and be forgotten by the unrelenting march of time and at best be a pile of ruins for some future civilisation to find. Faith and belief sustain us against that crushing despair. It gives us something higher than ourselves to put our trust in and that is what the Emperor seemed to fundamentally fail to understand about human beings, likely because it has been so very long since he was one himself.
Yeah, you would think a being such as Big E that has been around since literally Methuselah would know how to forge a faith that didn't quite bleed out for Chaos's use so much but also didn't have as much focus on/for him.
There's tons of heroic Chaos Marines depending on your point of view. Ahriman was just trying to save his battle brothers when no one else will let him.
Believe falsehoods so that they can become truth. Mercy and Duty do not exist, so you must make them exist by believing in them. That's really nicely written, I like that.
Are there any books covering a chaos space marines where they expressed themselves like the guy in this video? Chaos marines depicted like this character would be so fun to read.
The Black Legion audiobooks are read from the point of view of a well spoken and eloquent sounding traitor marine, very similar to this. Definitely recommend them.
"the falling angel meet the rising ape" was straight up refernce to the fall of Eldars's Empire and humanity becoming the new rules of the galaxy without any god or help beside the Emperor.
@@STANKYCHEEZEMAYNE no, when humanity was help to fight the Mens Of Iron it was because they where our friends. And they where some xenos races who helped us and now those races are clients to the Imperium or even under the Imperium's protection.
"With that, we leave your system, little 'sister'. We no longer require your destruction, now that your eyes have begun to open. Reflect upon what I've said. And look to your life. You have so much more to live for than.... *gestures to all the Imperial iconography* this."
One of my favourite Pratchett quotes... "The chances of this happening have been calculated by scientists as a million to one; however, magicians have deduced that million to one chances happen nine times out of ten". I may be paraphrasing cos Im going from memory.
@throwback19841 I always loved his witches. Granny Weatherwax and Samual Vimes especially. "This I choose to do." _She croaked, her breath leaving little clouds in the air. She cleared her throat and started again._ "This I choose to do. If there is a price, this I choose to pay. If it is my death, then I choose to die. Where this takes me, there I choose to go. I choose. This I choose to do." _It wasn't a spell, except in her own head, but if you couldn't make spells work in your own head, you couldn't make them work at all._
@@Fisthammet Sam Vimes also had some very strong moments of absolute incorruptability. When Vimes was dealing with the Calling Dark (said by Vetenary to be an eldrich primordial power of immeasurable strength), Drumknott commented that the outcome "would be one for the judges". Vimes' inner guarding dark, it's in a league on it's own.
Honestly, this is me. I feel so bad for Ahriman in particular. He just wanted to save his brothers from the flesh change. The universe just won't let him win. His determination fighting against fate itself is just peak drama. He accidentally turned most of his battle brothers to dust because he was trying to cure the flesh change. It's truly sad that he knows every original Thousand Son by name and remembers them.
Commissar: Why are you guardsmen not firing the target isn't moving. Guardsman Sniper: Sir, the Heretic is making cry. I think I love my family, sir. Commissar: What?
Which is a frightful concept by itself given that the Emprah is a mass murderer who also is a shit father,a fedora tipper and fits neatly into revalations as the antichrist without too much issue.
Quite the contrary. The Emperor and Lion El'Johnson are the biggest tyrants to ever walk the galaxy. There's no justice, hope or mercy with either of them. But they provide stability and order to the Imperium.
F*cking discworld keeps haunting me like some kind of evil demon possed frisbee... which rests on the back of 3 elephants... which stand atop a turtle.
@@rareraven that's a good question. Are you willing to fund the construction of a large enough crane to find out? I swear, all of these "Big Bang"-theory nuts want to know it's sex, but non is willing to pay for the equipment.
Okay, this is funny on a number of levels: 1: The Word Beaerer is actually being sane and rational in his arguments 2: The Word Bearer reminds me of Asmodai from The Dark Angels. Whom would give Grimaldus a run for his money in terms of zealoutry. 3: The music in the background is ambient music from World of Warcraft. Specifically, Dalaran; a city in World of Warcraft where magic of most kinds flows like the water in the rivers of Southeast Asia/India. 5: The Sister of Battle's hairdo.
"Yes Inquisitor. Yes, they are doing it again. Yes, I know it's reasonable. But the Imperium is unreasonable. Exterminatus? The entire system? Of course, right away"
If they hadn't been corrupted by Erebus and Kor Phaeron, the Word Bearers would've been probably the most lawful good legion, more focused on enlightening humanity and bringing glory to the Emperor than waging war and crushing civilizations.
If there is no justice and mercy in the universe, then we will simply make it so. Many things did not exist before they were first believed in. Humans are born ready to believe in something. Might as well be justice and mercy.
I love how this sends her basically full circle. The emperor might not be the kind of god you believe him to be. The galaxy is influencing the warp. The warp and the forces of chaos are unleashed over the galaxy as the greatest immortal powers at play. Your imperium has lied to you. And then they rescue an imperial priest or something like that. Full journey And they arrive here.
Sister of Battle: "...right, now what about the part where you horrifically and ritualistically sacrifice entire hive cities to summon otherworldly monsters of unending rage, rot, madness, and depravity?"
You do the same same, dear sister, whenever you bring a system or a city into “compliance”. It is just that you cannot the monsters and demons that your own rituals of slaughter summon.
Well said. In addition, there's really zero difference in physical terms between Chaos and the Imperium. They both treat human lives much the same. So you might as well live a little while you can.
@@randomdude8202 That isn't really disagreeing with him, though. The entire point he's making is that you need to believe abstract concepts exist in order to make them so. Countering with "they're real because we made them real!" is swapping the order with the same sentiment.
@@illTemperedSeaBass Well, he is right about that, there is no couther for facts. At least if you are honest. But he also makes those concepts sound like useless stuff, which is not true.
@@NuniaBiznaz well, virtual particles are also not technically real since you cannot observe them directly, but their interactions impact how universe works. And belief doesn't really change how they work. So something being a "concept" doesn't mean it is totally imaginary.
There is no good, no evil, its just is...but there is blood, there are skulls, these are real and within us. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE.
What's worse is if you are willing to let go of the heresy meme for a moment..*CERTAIN PARTS* of Chaotic Philosophy do have an appeal. The problem is the only time people tend to see Chaos forces, they're either frothing lunatics or Word Bearers. It's hard to see any part of Chaos as good when all you see is the gibbering hordes of fanatics. Then you have a bit of self-realization of what the Imperium is. Then you realize the only really nice factions are Orks or Tyranids because they don't really seem to have complex ideals.
I mean it’s not that they believe they’re monsters. They are simply doing as their gods want, much like crusaders did back in the day. Though there is a dichotomy in there as the reason the chaos gods want what they want is because it’s what they’re worshippers think they want.
I'm going to have to find my copy of Hogfather (Both book and movie) and have them ready around December 32nd for proper celebrations. Also, Mr. Teatime would make a great Culexes Assasin.
There are only two types of chaos marine corruption. One is Black Legion, Death Guard, and Word Bearers way. Explaining the hypocricy and meaningless of the Imperium and the universe. The second one is World Eaters, Night Lords, Emperor's Children, and Iron Warriors way: Have a weapon, go kill something, have fun until you die. If you kill enought or die cool enought, god may bring you back after some time.
Word bearers do have a point in they're creed. If not for them the religious practice of worshipping the emperor would not have been necssary. Almost pressing the point that the warp is an entity that materialised people's beliefs. So maybe the chaos gods much like the manifestation of the tau greater good was made out of mortal raw thoughts. The fifth chaos god too(manifested from hatred of the main four, and nihilism of a pesimist).
![[40k] Lion El'Jonson isn't happy with Azrael (Dark Angels)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_bFK7IoSRrQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[40k] Lion El'Jonson isn't happy with Azrael (Dark Angels)](/img/tr.png)
![[40k] Adeptus Astartes tells tales of Drukhari raids (Dark Eldar/Space Marines)](/img/n.gif)
I know there's a load of nerds in the 40k community, so I'm sure a few of you read. Weather you do or don't, do yourself a favour and pick up some Terry Pratchett.
Which I've kind of bastardised here, but still, go buy a book ;)
fun fact after being knighted sir terry went out and made his own sword out of peices or meteorite that again he him self collected all because he felt a true knight should have a sword and that sword is now in a museum if that isnt war hammer as hell i dont know what is
Are the "Wee Free Men" like Nurglings on meth?
How dare you think us 40k nerds don't know Terry Pratchett! (hahaha)
Is this from a movie about discworld I've never heard about??
This is amazing 👏, bravo.
“You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!'
IT'S A BOLTER, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
'She's a imperial gruardsman!' shouted the commisar.
IT'S EDUCATIONAL.
'What if she breaks her arm firing that thing herself?'
THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.”
THEN WE GIVE HER THE HUMAN SIZED ONE
I mean still safer than a plasmagun
Damn .__.
@@archonfett underrated comment.
"Have you been a good bo... a good Eld... a good Or... a good individual?"
"you need to believe in things that aren't true, how else can they become?" - Lorgar
and now the emperor is literally god
its ironic that chaos worshipers believe in truth and only truth while the imperium is based on superstitions and faith without proof
People believe he's a god and therefore he is. (even though he's just an extremely powerful psychic zombie)
@@foofoo3344 it's kind of agreed upon that, while other explanations are plausible, 10000 years of untold billions of people worshipping him as a God changed him deeply. After all, miracles happens all the time in the settings, even more common now that the Cicatrix Maledictum thinned the veil between the Warp and Real World.
@@giacomoromano8842 Fair enough
*Nods head furiously* orc standing in the corner
Terry Pratchett was actually approached about writing for Warhammer at one point. (Fantasy, not 40K). Since he parodied so many fantasy tropes, he said "'I feel a bit like King Herod being invited to write the newsletter for the Bethlehem Playground Association.' ". Unfortunately nothing ever came of this, but I would have really loved to see what a Pratchett take on Warhammer looked like. It's sad that it's something we'll never get to see.
We'd probably have actually gotten some Chaotic Good Chaos Gods out of the deal, or some loveable Marienburg city guards.
Jordan Sorcery brought that up in one of his vids
Do remember that Warhammer originally had a big sense of humour about itself. The orcs in particular have managed to keep some of theirs, though GW are trying to get rid of that in AoS. 😢
That's such a Terry Pratchett answer, it's amazing
Have a writer who is actually good write for Warhammer? Preposterous
A definite word bearer moment
Sounds all fancy, but if you stop yourself and actually think about it its complete bullshit. Definite Word Bearer moment
@@kostakatsoulis2922belief is a natural and arguably fundamental part of humanity.
Even to those who lack faith, or even western secular society itself at large, they retain the vestiges of belief and higher principles that are vital for a running civilisation.
. Respect for the dead
. Funerary rites
. Military and political ceremony
. Morality and codes of honour and justice
. Holidays, festivals and traditional practices
They are ways of helping us come to terms with our emotions and impulses that would destroy us.
All of them are unconnected to the rational scientific method, yet they are needed and have proved their value over the millenia.
Perhaps this is because on some level we are hard wired to need these long followed practices.
Whenever the state attempts to become god and removes all vestiges of tradition and belief in the name of efficiency and equality, that state becomes an opressive, murderous dystopia with no respect for human life.
@@kostakatsoulis2922 Still more truth than the empire.
confirmed Word Bearer:
I simply refuse to believe this is a Word Bearer speaking, they wouldn't be *encouraging* someone that justice, mercy, and duty are important despite not being real. Clearly Mortimer is still very much a Loyalist, one who's fought long enough to se that they are lies but they are important lies that lead to the betterment of all who believe in them and has seen what monsters people become without them.
I'm sure many would find the Chaos Space Marines profound if they weren't as wild as roid apes the rest of the time.
I like roids
In Discworld, DEATH (this Chaos Marine here) is the ultimate enemy of Auditors of Reality. The Auditors doesn't like living entities as they messed up everything so tries to come up scheme to get rid of them. DEATH like the livings, as it's his job to personally collect souls of important people, witches and wizards. He also like people as they offer infinite source of enjoyment.
Only Khorne worshippers are like that, if you ever read a book from a chaos marine's perspective you'd note that they have very interesting philosophies
They'll philosophise while they skin you
@@anexistanthuman2435 Yeah interesting philosophies while being wild roid apes
If Chaos was written like this I'd be a word bearer.
Sometimes it is . Read the heresy.
Exactly
It is written like this.
@andrewahrens214 and rarely after that is a chaos marine still a good guy who thinks "imperium evil only through us can humanity be free/prosper'
@@OllyatlasI mean it’s very hard to do that when the “good guy” in question is constantly pained by the inexplicable urge to skullfuck the nearest living thing at all times
"Grind the universe down to a fine powder and find me one atom of mercy. " Saving that one for my homebrew choas warband.
"You wouldn't find a single molucle of hate or vengeance either, and yet here you are" said the loyalist.
I came here for memes, not an existential crisis
Don't worry about it, everything he just said is complete bullshit wrapped in poetic language. Which is pretty much spot on for the world eaters
why not both?
If we don't contemplate our reality and our purpose, what's the point?
Sir, don't lie to your brothers and sisters.
You like W40K, an existential crisis is EXACTLY what you came for.
I mean thats Terry Pratchett's books in a nutshell right there, you start reading them because they are funny fantasy books, and then get hit with some philosophy without it seeming out of place or preachy.
Guy's books are amazing, the first few lean much more into just being fantasy parody but as time goes on his books get more and more interesting with the questions they raise.
That moment when he finishes talking and you suddenly realize you are now with chaos
LET THE GALAXY BURN BROTHER, LET IT BURN...
But the Word Bearer in the vids argument is essentially, there is no materialistic form of justice, no atom or natural law of it like gravity, so it’s not real, and essentially faith is an act of making real what isn’t yet, (enacting and making real by believing)
My response to the Chaos worshipping prick would then be: so why’d you choose this?wearing human skin and etc.
Then you realise, you might have missed the point...
Inquisitor : " interesting ... "
DEATH is one of the most compassionate character in Discworld. Despite how this sound: "There is no justice. There is just me.", and he does offer some semblance of Justice.
I found casting his 'granddaughter' Susan Sto Helit as a member of Sororitas somewhat hilariously as she's one of the most grounded practical character in the setting. While being a governess to a pair of kids and one of them complain about monster under their bed, she just gave them the fireplace poker to take care of the problem, as those monster can only be seen and interacted by children.
Hogfather is still one of my fafourites, but Going Postal will always stand higher, just because of OUR MISSION-chapter that taught me that anybody who uses the word synergetically needs to be distrusted at all costs.
Mom there is monster under my bed.
Here, have this pointy stick and teach it that squating is bad for your health.
At first death sounds like a nihilistic athiest on reddit saying something deep, then at the very end he says "You need to believe in things that arent true. How else can they become?" Which changes the entire narrative. The beauty of the human spirit and will is that we can create a heavenly order from the chaos by believing and willing it into exist.
Good and Evil exists, and so many of us, including me forgot how to be good. I want to believe in that and make it become so.
What movie is this from is it called Discworld or is it from that Terry Practchet universe? Also in real life Death is our friend. She guides us to our next destinatnion
@@williamhamilton5868same and i used to be able to but life and shitty circumstsnces crushed me. Time to get back on the horse sndnbe stronger and wiser. Came here for a meme ended up with a positive philospohical reminder to stsnd up on my feet again.
The scary thing is, this is exactly what a seasoned Word Bearer would do; tell you nothing but facts and truths.
The Anchorite himself remained loyal though, but still believed the Emperor was a god. But then again, he is now, 10k years later, correct. The Word Bears won the civil war.
Umm, I don’t think that is true… I mean they wrote the imperium
Bible.
@@Motard.Actual The Lectitio Divinitatus, Lorgar's logical proof about how and why the Emperor is a god, along with all conceivable arguments and counter arguments he could come up with after years of contemplation and discourse among fellow theologians.
Guilliman penned the Codex Astartes, a methodical treatise on military warfare and economics designed to give the Ultramarines Legion a chance to hold against the combined forces of 9 other Legions on the off-chance Ultramar became the last bastion of the Imperium. THAT is the level of detail Lorgar supposedly put into the Lectitio Divinitatus; it's not baseless scripture, but instead factual evidence and logical proof as to why the Emperor should be considered a god and worshipped as such. Lorgar even dismisses the notion of classical gods as superstitious nonsense; his definition of a 'god' was something so grand, powerful and above the level of mortal man that 'god' was the only word that could adequately describe them. This is why Lorgar never abandoned the notion that the Emperor was a god, even though he later claimed he was unworthy of worship; he still recognizes the Emperor as a god by his own definition, but so are the Chaos Gods, and he preferred them due to the simple fact that the Chaos Gods did not deny their divinity or the Emperor's, and their Primordial Truth was simply that 'Yes, gods are real.'
Now would I personally define the individual Chaos Gods, Chaos Undivided, the Emperor, or any of the other godly entities in the 40k universe as true gods? Not really, but I can see why some people would default to that terminology just like Lorgar did, because they are for all practical purposes gods or god-like entities, even if my bar for what constitutes a true god is much higher.
@@Motard.Actual Do i smell actual real life Heresy out here?
They tell you just one lie. A whole ten paragraphs of based and deep stuff and a teeny-tiny one at the end - "And THAT is what our organisation is about".
The black library could learn a thing or two from the Hogfather. It's fine and all to have Chaos be evil, but it also needs to be tempting to the reader - otherwise adherence to Chaos in the lore just come across like idiots.
Aight bud, not everyone can write stuff as good as Pratchett, there's a reason he's regarded so highly.
Yeah it does irritate me how chaos are just written like soulless idiots constantly being duped. Wish they did more like the first heretic where the word bearers discover chaos and worship it, not because it is great and good but simply because it is and does not deny itself.
@@papajavaleri While that is true. Grr I'm evil, I sure do love twisting my mustache is a pretty low bar clear. Yet GW, seems to consistently limbo under it, completely misunderstanding the assignment.
The tempting thing about chaos is the drip. Also crab claws.
@@Telmacheh depends on the legion but yeah even when the stakes are "this a primarch we are writing" it too often becomes "so i turned to chaos because evil seemed more fun"
"you need to believe in things that aren't true, how else can they become?"
- Some Ork probably.
"The difference between gods and daemons depends largely upon where one stands at the time".
With how well spoken he is, he's definitely an OG first born Chaos Astarte.
"LET THE GALAXY BURN!"
Honestly I would have loved a 40k book written by Terry Pratchet. Like: and then the Navigator informed the Inquisitor there is a planet sized turtle swiming next to the ship in the sea of souls, where humans and all kind of xenos races are just chilling. The Inquisitor promptly requested a mindwipe of all on board after the revelation, only to find out that the mind wipe machine is currently on cooldown due to overuse with a note stuck on it saying: Stop the mind wipes and go do your job! Your past self. PS: we already did this 3 times it seems, the turtle is following the ship, were also out of ext-rockets. The bloody thing ate all of them
That would be freaking amazing.
Always surprises me that there's an obvious Blackadder 40K homage, but not an outright Douglas Adams approach, which might read a little like that.
They asked Michael Moorcock to write for 40k in the early days and he kinda shot them down harshly with some comment along the lines of "itd be like a rockstar in a karaoke bar"
@@kobold7466 How absolutely pompous, if true.
@@orochifire it was not those exact words but he used some kind of allegory of him being above writing for games workshop as they were small frys in the fantasy writing and gaming club at the time
This is unironically the best example of Chaos philosophy, and why you can have good in chaotic acts.
While I understand the point I think that tends to get overshadowed by the fact that the majority of Chaos followers are almost always fucked in the head because of their proximity to the Warp. The warp itself is the mirror of all the raw undiluted emotional energy of an entire galaxy and the human mind cannot and should not attempt to grasp at things like it. Not to mention that the Chaos gods are pretty much all extremely malicious and destructive creatures. To feel is to be human but you must control your feelings and not let them control you.
The myth of chaos would make sense, and allow for people to do good through chaos. The practice of Chaos is one of murder and rage. I 100% agree. Just because there is potential for good is there, doesn't mean it will happen. That's the horrible truth regarding chaos.
Remember kids, “the path to hell is paved with good intentions” even in the real world. The parody in Ringworld and 40k is full of this. The chaos forces may actually be the good guys, and 40k lore is most always written to clearly reflect Imperial propaganda.
They mulch people into powder and get high off of it dude.
You know what I love this. If Lorgar ended up being the wisest of his brothers , he would have spoken like Death from the point of view that he sought out truths not even the Emperor knew. Using chaos as a starting point. Echoing the believes of the Priest from The Last Church.
Lorgar just wanted to believe in something, but coz the big E is a big D he found his belief elsewhere.
@@markokozic Lorgar was also fantaical hypocrite lore wise, so there is that.
Now I really want to see Jiraiya the last priest mentoring lorgar as day what if ?😢
@@Nobody32990 The Emperor is fucking stupid, especially in his destruction of Monarchia. Even Russ is opposed to it. Almost all of the Primarchs agreed that it's excessive. The Emperor planted the seed of his suffering.
@@Nobody32990The Emperor was an even bigger hypocrite, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?
The turtle with elephants on its shell could solo a chaos fleet
*Great A'Tuin 😅
Ha, one of the elephants would be enough.
What is beneath the turtle?
@@JoeSmith-sl9bq The Vacuum of Space, as it flys around it's sun as it holds the planet of Discworld on it's back.
Chaos fleet: exists
Turtle: Nom nom
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THR-Alas, poor Horus! I knew him, Khorne, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.
✓ Most underrated of comments. ✓
Right here!
Where is this from? It rings a bell with me
@@contrapasso1539alas poor yorrick is the first line in hamlet's to be or not to be speech
@@cosmictreason2242 aaah yeah, thats it. Thanks!
What a compelling argument from brother Rape-Strangle of the Orphan Slayers Legion
He has a point, oh no... I feel the warp overtaking me! Argh! It is a good pain 😂
yes Inquisitor, this comment right here
That's the thing I think people love about the Word Bearers in the first place. They're 100% insane, but they aren't strictly wrong.
Sanity.. is for the weak!!
How have we failed?!
We kaptord it for chhhaosss
Honestly the VA for the Chaos marine has that firm but calming quality that makes me think he’d be a good voice for Lorgar
Orc eavesdropping in the background: "Holy shit he's right!"
Orks have no sense of morality unless yarrick is involved
And that, right there is what the Emperor could never understand about human beings and just why his "Imperial Truth" failed so hard
You misunderstand... The Emperor understood this perfectly. He knew exactly what he was doing. But if he did it any other way it was going to end in feeding the warp. Which is exactly what he ended up doing, because the Emperor was a hack.
The emperor overestimated himself with many things. Ignoring Chaos, If we are looking at the past and existing examples of civilizations in 40k either they rely on AI or Gods. The Orks and Eldars are exceptionally powerful psykers and they all have their Gods. Species that don't rely on the Warp like Tau or DAoT humanity use AI to stay competitive or the Necron who practically have become the AI themselves. Humans are stronger than Tau but it's a marginal difference compared to the Orks, Eldars or Necron who are either stronger, more intelligent or both. Although I understand that the Emperor didn't want to rely on Gods because unlike Orks or Eldars who are strong psykers humans are weak psykers meaning a relationship with humans and a God would be one-sided. That left AI as the only option left. The Emperor refused both options but he didn't seem to have another solution for humanity to stay competitive in the galaxy.
@@minhducnguyen9276 It's not that. Humans NEED to believe in something. The Imperial Truth presents a vision of a cold, uncaring universe where in nothing you or anyone does matters. It is a crushing vision of the universe in which even the Emperor's grand Imperium will ultimately not matter.
Even if the Imperium lasted a million years, it would still crumble and be forgotten by the unrelenting march of time and at best be a pile of ruins for some future civilisation to find.
Faith and belief sustain us against that crushing despair. It gives us something higher than ourselves to put our trust in and that is what the Emperor seemed to fundamentally fail to understand about human beings, likely because it has been so very long since he was one himself.
Yeah, you would think a being such as Big E that has been around since literally Methuselah would know how to forge a faith that didn't quite bleed out for Chaos's use so much but also didn't have as much focus on/for him.
...Did we just meet a heroic Chaos Marine?
Nope. That’s Death.
Anything's possible
There's tons of heroic Chaos Marines depending on your point of view. Ahriman was just trying to save his battle brothers when no one else will let him.
@@changer_of_ways_999and of course there’s no hero quite like Honsou
@@Warsm1th12 THAT. SICK. BASTARD. He'd make a fine loyalist if he wasn't made by Iron Warriors
Believe falsehoods so that they can become truth. Mercy and Duty do not exist, so you must make them exist by believing in them. That's really nicely written, I like that.
RIP Mr Richardson. You truly were the best Death 😊
You might well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.
Are there any books covering a chaos space marines where they expressed themselves like the guy in this video? Chaos marines depicted like this character would be so fun to read.
Yep, Fabius Bile Omnibus, Night Lords Omnibus, Lords of Silence
The Black Legion audiobooks are read from the point of view of a well spoken and eloquent sounding traitor marine, very similar to this. Definitely recommend them.
Thanks for the recommendations!
I would highly reccomend "The Talons of Horus" and it's sequel " The Black Legion", the MC is a CSM and he has some very interesting view points.
The books with Ahriman. Through his journey to give his dust brothers back their bodies he brings a very good perspective on Chaos, Fate and Destiny.
"the falling angel meet the rising ape" was straight up refernce to the fall of Eldars's Empire and humanity becoming the new rules of the galaxy without any god or help beside the Emperor.
lol without any help besides 40k Jesus but that's all nothing else
@@STANKYCHEEZEMAYNE no, when humanity was help to fight the Mens Of Iron it was because they where our friends. And they where some xenos races who helped us and now those races are clients to the Imperium or even under the Imperium's protection.
The Discworld-Warhammer_40k shared universe confirmed....
By the Emperor you are so right
How about “Judgement” Warhammer 40k Flash Fiction by Vox in the Void?
This line is also MAJOR blood Angel vibes.
Circles within circles bro. ⭕️😎
That music that plays at the end, like a moment of realization as well as regaining hope, gets me every time.
"With that, we leave your system, little 'sister'. We no longer require your destruction, now that your eyes have begun to open.
Reflect upon what I've said. And look to your life. You have so much more to live for than.... *gestures to all the Imperial iconography* this."
I'm a ridiculously huge Terry Pratchett fan. This crossover made me very happy
Wait til the humans realize theyre all just riding on the backs of giant carnifexes
“What if I don’t want to make the world a better place? What if I want to make the world a worse place? What then?” - Chaos Space Marines
That’s was the most Word Bearer thing I’ve ever seen
Pratchett is one of my faves.
One of my favourite Pratchett quotes... "The chances of this happening have been calculated by scientists as a million to one; however, magicians have deduced that million to one chances happen nine times out of ten". I may be paraphrasing cos Im going from memory.
@throwback19841 I always loved his witches. Granny Weatherwax and Samual Vimes especially.
"This I choose to do." _She croaked, her breath leaving little clouds in the air. She cleared her throat and started again._ "This I choose to do. If there is a price, this I choose to pay. If it is my death, then I choose to die. Where this takes me, there I choose to go. I choose. This I choose to do." _It wasn't a spell, except in her own head, but if you couldn't make spells work in your own head, you couldn't make them work at all._
@@Fisthammet Sam Vimes also had some very strong moments of absolute incorruptability.
When Vimes was dealing with the Calling Dark (said by Vetenary to be an eldrich primordial power of immeasurable strength), Drumknott commented that the outcome "would be one for the judges".
Vimes' inner guarding dark, it's in a league on it's own.
Uh oh chaos has started pulling at my heart strings.
Honestly, this is me. I feel so bad for Ahriman in particular. He just wanted to save his brothers from the flesh change. The universe just won't let him win. His determination fighting against fate itself is just peak drama. He accidentally turned most of his battle brothers to dust because he was trying to cure the flesh change. It's truly sad that he knows every original Thousand Son by name and remembers them.
Now this would have made for a much more compelling and interesting spin on Lorgar
Lorgar speaks just like this sometimes.
Commissar: Why are you guardsmen not firing the target isn't moving.
Guardsman Sniper: Sir, the Heretic is making cry. I think I love my family, sir.
Commissar: What?
"Show me one atom of justice, hope and mercy"
It's the Emperor.
@@LordBelakorTHOUSAND SONS HAVE ENTERED THE CHAT
More like manipulative, sociopathic, and xenophobic
Ah yes the genocidal warlord who has murdered trillions
Which is a frightful concept by itself given that the Emprah is a mass murderer who also is a shit father,a fedora tipper and fits neatly into revalations as the antichrist without too much issue.
Quite the contrary. The Emperor and Lion El'Johnson are the biggest tyrants to ever walk the galaxy. There's no justice, hope or mercy with either of them. But they provide stability and order to the Imperium.
"To be the place where the fallen angel meets the rising ape" is such a profound way to describe humanity. I really like it
F*cking discworld keeps haunting me like some kind of evil demon possed frisbee... which rests on the back of 3 elephants... which stand atop a turtle.
Ah, but is it male or female!?
@@rareraven that's a good question.
Are you willing to fund the construction of a large enough crane to find out?
I swear, all of these "Big Bang"-theory nuts want to know it's sex, but non is willing to pay for the equipment.
Word bearers are my legion
❤❤❤
That was… genuinely deep and thought-provoking
Stopped for Death, stayed for Susan.
Okay, this is funny on a number of levels:
1: The Word Beaerer is actually being sane and rational in his arguments
2: The Word Bearer reminds me of Asmodai from The Dark Angels. Whom would give Grimaldus a run for his money in terms of zealoutry.
3: The music in the background is ambient music from World of Warcraft. Specifically, Dalaran; a city in World of Warcraft where magic of most kinds flows like the water in the rivers of Southeast Asia/India.
5: The Sister of Battle's hairdo.
A gentle Reminder that the Lectitio Divinitatus (basically the "Bible") the Imperium uses was written by Lorgar
How are you gonna make Justice, Hope, Peace and Joy real, if you cannot believe in them?
"Yes Inquisitor. Yes, they are doing it again. Yes, I know it's reasonable. But the Imperium is unreasonable. Exterminatus? The entire system? Of course, right away"
heh, Pratchett sure knew how to write profound moments...
here's to you Terry Pratchett, you are sorely missed.
I'd like to take a moment to appreciate the fact they're having a civil discussion rather than insta-murder-kill each other on sight.
"how compeling ! now face the wall "
He sure is making one hell of a hell of a case for the Ecclesiarcy, it’s true.
Order for the Order God! Humanity for the Imperium Throne!
If they hadn't been corrupted by Erebus and Kor Phaeron, the Word Bearers would've been probably the most lawful good legion, more focused on enlightening humanity and bringing glory to the Emperor than waging war and crushing civilizations.
If there is no justice and mercy in the universe, then we will simply make it so. Many things did not exist before they were first believed in. Humans are born ready to believe in something. Might as well be justice and mercy.
That's just paraphrasing the video dude.
@@DX795QIt is a difference if you just believe the lies of a politician or start to make a real change. And change starts within.
One of my favourite quotes from any of his books.
I love how this sends her basically full circle.
The emperor might not be the kind of god you believe him to be.
The galaxy is influencing the warp.
The warp and the forces of chaos are unleashed over the galaxy as the greatest immortal powers at play.
Your imperium has lied to you.
And then they rescue an imperial priest or something like that. Full journey
And they arrive here.
This sounds like it's right out of one of the 40k novels. This one was really well done.
Sister of Battle: "...right, now what about the part where you horrifically and ritualistically sacrifice entire hive cities to summon otherworldly monsters of unending rage, rot, madness, and depravity?"
"Oh that's simply because we're utterly insane, now please be still while I wrote prayers to Chaos on your flayed skin"
You do the same same, dear sister, whenever you bring a system or a city into “compliance”.
It is just that you cannot the monsters and demons that your own rituals of slaughter summon.
I can easily see this conversation happening with a Thousand Son.
Pterry always knew how to phrase the big questions, and give a decent answer.
Well said. In addition, there's really zero difference in physical terms between Chaos and the Imperium. They both treat human lives much the same. So you might as well live a little while you can.
A Chaos Chaplain? You don't see that every day
They're called Dark Apostles and the Word Bearers have tons of them
“Just accept that your values are for the benefit of your species and not an inherent fact of reality” moment
this would also be a good counter argument to him. "They, enable human society to exist, therefore real"
@@randomdude8202 That isn't really disagreeing with him, though. The entire point he's making is that you need to believe abstract concepts exist in order to make them so. Countering with "they're real because we made them real!" is swapping the order with the same sentiment.
@@illTemperedSeaBass Well, he is right about that, there is no couther for facts. At least if you are honest. But he also makes those concepts sound like useless stuff, which is not true.
@@randomdude8202 His entire point is that they aren't useless though, just not technically real. He actively encourages the belief in these things.
@@NuniaBiznaz well, virtual particles are also not technically real since you cannot observe them directly, but their interactions impact how universe works. And belief doesn't really change how they work. So something being a "concept" doesn't mean it is totally imaginary.
I wasn't particularly found of The Hogfather, however this one scene was worth it.
There is no good, no evil, its just is...but there is blood, there are skulls, these are real and within us. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE.
I watched this and instantly turned to Chaos.
The last words of the last loyalist word bearer
Hogfather was so good.
Ahhh, the chaos gods speak clearly now!!!!
that word barer is so close to the truth but he forgets one thing, nothing makes sense in the warp.
Hogfather is such an awesome adaptation of the source material.
What's worse is if you are willing to let go of the heresy meme for a moment..*CERTAIN PARTS* of Chaotic Philosophy do have an appeal.
The problem is the only time people tend to see Chaos forces, they're either frothing lunatics or Word Bearers.
It's hard to see any part of Chaos as good when all you see is the gibbering hordes of fanatics. Then you have a bit of self-realization of what the Imperium is. Then you realize the only really nice factions are Orks or Tyranids because they don't really seem to have complex ideals.
"And now I'm going to eat your face."
Read it in Discworld deaths voice
AND NOW I AM GOING TO EAT YOUR FACE. IF YOU BE A DEAR AND HOLD STILL.
I like how the Word Bearers kinda know they're monsters, but believe that the world needs monsters so it's okay.
I mean it’s not that they believe they’re monsters. They are simply doing as their gods want, much like crusaders did back in the day. Though there is a dichotomy in there as the reason the chaos gods want what they want is because it’s what they’re worshippers think they want.
@@shadowstep1375 TLDR, the Warp is WEIRD.
@@alexernst9448 It is certainly a thing.
I'm going to have to find my copy of Hogfather (Both book and movie) and have them ready around December 32nd for proper celebrations.
Also, Mr. Teatime would make a great Culexes Assasin.
If bro led the Heresy instead of Horus the crackhead, we would be in a different world.
Justice and Mercy are all as real as we allow them to be. They are a covenant we all uphold, I fear for a time when we do not.
Commisar “You don’t need to believe in anything more than The Emperor guardsman, the rest is not important.”
Fair point, fair point. Counterpoint: HERESY!!!!
*Astartes would like to know your location*
Man... This was lowkey deep asf. haha
There are only two types of chaos marine corruption.
One is Black Legion, Death Guard, and Word Bearers way. Explaining the hypocricy and meaningless of the Imperium and the universe.
The second one is World Eaters, Night Lords, Emperor's Children, and Iron Warriors way: Have a weapon, go kill something, have fun until you die. If you kill enought or die cool enought, god may bring you back after some time.
there is the alpha legion too but that one is a third and nobody can understand it
Inquisitor in orbit sneakily pressing the big red button
Very profound...until you notice the flayed flesh of corpses draped across his back....
The perfect crossover does exist.
A true son of Lorgar right here 😭
"Show me one molecule of mercy"
"easy" says the sister of battle cocking her bolter
"I have the Emperor's mercy right here heretic!"
I came here for fun and shenanigans... left if existential dread... well played! :-P
Dannnnng, that sister is falling for sure.
This is absolutely beautiful.
This is an underrated movie. Hogfather is on my Christmas movie list.
mine too!
Word bearers do have a point in they're creed. If not for them the religious practice of worshipping the emperor would not have been necssary. Almost pressing the point that the warp is an entity that materialised people's beliefs. So maybe the chaos gods much like the manifestation of the tau greater good was made out of mortal raw thoughts. The fifth chaos god too(manifested from hatred of the main four, and nihilism of a pesimist).
I... Emperor protect me, I am faltering!
Molecules of mercy make a .75 caliber bolt. I'll make sure this heretic gets that in his head.
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become."
Hits different in 40k, with the Warp.
Now, that is a convincing Word Bearer argument right there!
Reason is the cloak of traitors
Justice is merely a construct of the current power base -Maul