the gunplay has never Deus Ex's strongest elements. It's an rpg so it doesn't matter if you point the gun right at someone's face if you don't have enough exp, you ain't hitting shit like you rolled the dice in DND and didn't get a high enough number so it doesn't count
@@peppermillers8361 I said gunplay, not gameplay. As an overall game Deus Ex is brilliant. Even Warren Specter said that alot of the individual elements don't work well on their own but when you bring it all together it works
@@CoralCopperHead the video is good but the Ai gibberish is bad, so 90 percent of the video is good. Your take is something an autistic retard would say to another autistic retard. Unfortunately for you, you’re talking to a high IQ rapist.
Vídeo idea: Deus Ex noob traps. Bad mods, bad skills, useless items. Swimming, the silenced pistol, etc, and bad choices you can make. As always great vid!
The Silenced Pistol can carry you the whole game. The Unatco Soldier outside of the base selling bullets pairs well with it, that's the *real* noob trap. It won't fight 'bots, but headshots from silenced weapons get a huge damage bonus. The later agents and even commandos don't fair well when you hit them while they're unaware; a good example is the underwater lab "boss fight" as without augs turned on Simmons has *zero* ballistic resistance which makes him *as tough as a regular Unatco soldier.*
Basically, the game ses if you hit the target the conventinal hitscan way, and then applies the bullet drop afterward, simulating the effects of a bullet curving downard on it's trajectory, but the logic doesn't apply in reverse: If you aim higher to try and account for the bullet drop, gravity will mysteriously fail to act upon your bullets again and you'll just miss.
I figured the game had something like this since I was missing wayyy too many headshots. It is implemented in a bizarre way, and standing on a box negates the whole thing? This game's code must be very interesting.
As a game dev.. the reason they went for this approach instead of a more physically believable one is that instead of a single raycast they'd need anywhere from tens to hundreds of short-range raycasts per bullet if they were to simulate bullet travel believably. A laser-straight line might hit, but once you start taking bullet drop into account, any number of objects in between the shooter and the target could stop the bullet, so all objects need to be tested for repeatedly. This is just not feasible to do in a game behavior script in 1999. We *can* do this these days, but it requires that a new bullet tracing system is built into the engine which will collect a list of potential targets by essentially testing each potential object against a projected box starting from the muzzle and ending up at max range, adjusted for ballistic drop, and then each object needs to be tested for intersection with the ballistic path in order of distance to origin. *THIS* could have been done in 1999, but it would have needed to be an engine feature, and by the time someone decided to add a bullet drop mechanic, it wasn't going to be included in engine core.
@@peterjohnson9438this is so interesting and well explained. I love the fact that such an epic and unique game as Deus Ex, still had a lot of out of the way quickfixes. It goes to teach us a lesson: start now, not "when prepared" you are going to figure it out along the way, and even if it isnt the best solution, you will have something great to work with.
@@peterjohnson9438 Yeah, this is pretty spot on. While they were stuck with performance limitations back in those days, I'd still wager the bullet drop was added in later in the development process and the devs at least had an idea of a better way to do it. When I was doing a physics simulation module in college the professor showed us a really elegant solution to somewhat simulate bullet drop from some older games (younger than Dues Ex) that just needed stuff from cmath IIRC. That being said I was still shitting in diapers when they were developing this game so maybe I don't fully grasp how lightweight stuff truly had to be. I have looked under the hood of Deus Ex a fair bit, but my focus was more on enemy behaviors. I wouldn't say you're testing of any and all objects between the player and target or hundreds of traces would be strictly necessary to make something more convincing than what's in at the minute. Why not just end your first trace at accurate range and then do a new trace at a deviated angle for however many range increments are left on the gun up to max range. That's a max of 5, maybe 6. Not a perfect parabolic arc by any means and more expensive than what's here now, but assuming the player is the only one that uses that functionality and it's turned off or called less for rapid fire guns, I wouldn't think something like that would plummet the games performance. My first thought last night when watching the leg shooting part of the video was to do 2-3 small line traces from the enemy at different heights in the direction of the player to check for cover and then cancel the damage to the areas below the trace if it receives a hit. Surely that'd be slight improvement on what's in now and wouldn't break the bank in terms of performance.
@@peterjohnson9438 the thing is just that they didn't need to add bullet drop. most players don't know it's a feature anyway. it's only fun if you can clearly see it and account for it. i don't think bullet drop and hitreg are really compatible anyway.
Hey, glad to see this video finally got made! I've known about this stupid mechanic for 6 years, but it's stayed as arcane knowledge since it's so difficult to explain without busting out math and code. However, I did still learn some things from this video. Firstly, that a foot shot will always stay a foot shot even at maximum range (fake bullet drop doesn't lead to misses), and secondly that the fake bullet drop doesn't apply if you shoot from elevation. I think your theory in one of the comment replies is correct -- this is probably because all hitboxes are cylinders in Deus Ex, and the hit location has to be somewhere on the surface of that cylinder. So if the original hit location is on the top of the cylinder, it can't move down in the Z direction at all -- you only have a Z direction to move down if the original hit location is on the side of the cylinder. I sure do love (/hate) Deus Ex.
Thanks for giving me the idea dude. After further testing it seems you need to be 280ft up in order to hit the head of someone 300ft away with a pistol So it's a bit higher than I thought.
Now I'm going to imagine that bullets in Deus Ex are actually little spider bots that will either bite the target on hit, or crawl down the target's leg before biting them.
Two types of BaconHer0 enjoyers: Gunther Hermann who yearns to learn the wisdom of JC's experience with Deus Ex Jankombat to better defeat his enemies. Maggie Chow who watches with morbid curiosity as JC's nanoaugments malfunction in spectacular fashion from behind an observation window.
HR & MD does, but not OG because this is from the toddler age of programming. Don't know if the ModDb Better-Bullets mod still works but it can easily fix this, this mess!
@@XSilver_WaterXI need to play the OG Deus Ex (well actually GOTY edition), because I think the only weapons that use bullet drop mechanic are the darts from crossbow, the assault rifle grenade launcher and the plasma rifle. About the crossbow there is a dude CatSkinCap that make a funny walkthrough and he do a 360 with that weapon in the Ocean Base.
@@hernanreipp3321 Have you experimented with other mods with GOTY and base game, I tried with the cheap and free Revision mod with TNM and bullet drops are stupidly common! Toss a molotov at a bunch of baddies, only for, what's TNM's protag's name, Timmy, J.D., Carley if you used the female addon? Sorry, only for your guy to throw the molotov at his feet at burn!
@@XSilver_WaterX Sadly I only have the GOTY edition and barely use any mod on My Deus Ex. I willl make the same test our buddy do here to understand this mechanic a little more.
You'd have thought they could have used the modelling the dart gun arrows are based on, since they can be predicably aimed high at long range to drop and get headshots, can't penetrate cover AND agent accuracy does affect this muh muh muh. They could have just shrunk the dart (or made it invisible) and sped it up to have actual ballistics modelling for bullet weapons, but I guess hitscan is so much easier and technically more reliable to use in-game, if the system it's playing on has memory issues/slow down.
Yeah back then the average home PC was like 500mhz with a 16mb graphic card and 64 to 128mb of ram. That's megabytes! Also consider that this game was in development since the late 90s, so the Devs probably started off with specs much lower than that Modelling every single bullet as a projectile, especially for machine gun and shotgun, would have been very taxing
I’m know for a fact that Requiem: Avenging Angel (1999) models individual bullets fired by the player and enemies alike, which is also why they can be slowed down and easily dodged using the Time Warp power (basically Bullet Time before Bullet Time). Don’t remember if there is drop-off in the game but I see no reason why there couldn’t have been a more basic implementation added (say, shift the Y-position of the bullet X number of units after travelling Y distance or some such thing).
There is a absolutely no way systems at the time could model individual bullets in real time. Ion storm was not very good at technical programming, they leaned heavily into story and art, not optimizing code.
@@AntiCookieMonster It's a lot of math for something that happens a lot during combat. Not a problem now, computers have enormous strength compared to what originally ran the game, but the less math a game has to do *or more simplified math* the better for players. The fight outside of Osmond and Son's (The warehouse outside of the 'Ton) would've been a laggy mess if every bullet had to not only do a laser hit-scan, but also determine *if the bullet fell* and then by *how much* making 3x the work for the processor. Nothing is wrong with parabolic hitscans in modern games; older PC's just couldn't handle the girth without lagging a ton.
@@AntiCookieMonsterUE1 doesn't have any curved trace functions, you get a start point and an end point to work with as world coordinates. You might see a few ways in which doing parabolic curves accurately when you only have straight lines could be difficult. So someone would've had to write such a function in C++ for the unrealscript programmers to use on the weapons
This is fascinating to hear about, I love seeing games abstract-ify real life concepts into gameish form, even if it's not 100% like the actual thing as shown here.
Honestly its a pretty cool way of doing bullet drop without making a whole system to calculate the physics affect on the bullets. You know this was one devs baby of a feature. Just a cool little idea they probably proposed and coded up on their own in a week.
Quite an interesting mechanic. It is also supremely stupid that you can not correct your aim by aiming upwards, but calculating the bullet trajectory might have been too difficult
I remember back in the day trying to hit distant targets with the tranq darts, and noticed the bullet drop was: "Fly straght out to a set distance, then aim ~35 degrees downward." There was nothing natural or intuitive about compensting for this bullet drop, unlike trying to aim real projectiles. I guess the hitscan weapons were equally janky!
This is nearly correct -- for both hitscan and projectile weapons, the accurate range denotes the distance where shots fly straight, after which gravity takes effect. For hitscan weapons it leads to this stupid fake bullet drop, while for projectile weapons it leads to actual acceleration downwards on the velocity. This means you don't have to account for gravity on the mini-crossbow if you're within 50 ft. Also, the max range stat for projectile weapons is meaningless. Since range mods do nothing but increase the accurate range stat on weapons, they literally do nothing when applied to the plasma rifle, GEP gun, or flamethrower, but they do make the mini-crossbow shoot straight for a longer distance. Weirdly, while grenades are always affected by gravity, they get doubled gravity beyond accurate range, since the projectile drop code applies on top of the general gravity code.
Finally the comeback of the DX King 👑. I've been waiting so long for ya video, if you don't mind us asking, why? Is it hard to make new content about DX or irl problems? If it's former I think a good way to branch out is to talk about DX mods or it's sequels, those too have some depth to em to discuss
So that's what these "acc. range" and "max range" are for. I thought the only purpose of accuracy range is disable cross aim colour when you are aiming on enemies outside acc.range.
1:40 -But... What about the accuracy?!- For those actually wondering, it just changes the angle of where the shot lands. Let's be honest here, how often do you *seriously* expect to snipe long range targets while running?
Surprisingly. It would've been extremely easy to just bend the hitscan path (by doing more hitscans, each with a ray length limit) after the 150ft. Just bend it once at 150, then again at 200, then again at 250, etc. The coding required for this, and the computation would've been very negligible, and would've made for "accurate" (at least somewhat) bullet drop that could be compensated for by a skilled player.
This was a funny one!! I am used to run right to the enemy and shoot him in the face point blank so hitscan or accuracy doesn't bother me much. What I don't get is how far those 300ft actually is on the map itself, I don't remember ever reaching a limit. Long time ago in my first few playthroughs I used crossbow with sleeping arrows. Crossbow should have some real drop mechanics but is easy to hit aiming above even with all the inaccuracy - you just need to hit and it's over. But after seeing how stupid the AI behavior is (most evident in VersaLife labs) it all become pointless for the sake of pistol efficiency.
why are there random muted clips of J.C. talking randomly interspersed? i don't imagine they're related to the audio speech in the video because there's no lipsync at all and they feel just coincidental to that lol
Bullet drop... on hitscan... what the actual fu- Worst part is, this could be done better very easily even with hitscan, simply spawning new tracers at different, lower trajectories the farthest the distance, and checking if it collides with something. That way you won't hit feet behind cover, and you can compensate by aiming higher.
I do find it weird that they do have the bullets be hitscan. Since UE1 is totally capable of having projectiles with "somewhat" realistic bullet drop physics.
Physics moves are kind of inconsistent in UE1 at high speed since projectiles tend to not use solid collision. Bumps are traced during updates but not touches, so at low FPS you could have your actor go straight through another unless you updated the physics code to handle that. Which they didn't do. That's why you can lagjump through thin nonsolid actors like the lasers or any kind of small triggers. Quicksaving is sufficient to abuse that fact lol
Can you not have JC have a stroke every sentence please.
No
Hmmm. Please?
@@aidencrawford9704 Icarus will not be happy
@@BaconHer0can you relegate them to the end of video bloopers?
It adds character dammit.
bullet drop so bad J.C has a stroke halfway through
"Hold on, I have to drop some of my load. ... ... heheheh..."
damn this is crazy. It's admirable that they *tried* to do bullet drop, but sad that they failed miserably and didn't cut it.
A lot of DX1 is taped via duct tape
the gunplay has never Deus Ex's strongest elements. It's an rpg so it doesn't matter if you point the gun right at someone's face if you don't have enough exp, you ain't hitting shit like you rolled the dice in DND and didn't get a high enough number so it doesn't count
@SpikeJet2736 I think the gameplsy is fun, I think the problem is that the guns and SFX Don’t feel good.
@@peppermillers8361bislexick detected
@@peppermillers8361 I said gunplay, not gameplay. As an overall game Deus Ex is brilliant. Even Warren Specter said that alot of the individual elements don't work well on their own but when you bring it all together it works
that AI gibberish hits like zyme
Who says that isn't what it really is?
It's lorem ipsum for the new millennium
i hate it and it wastes my time
@@zerek44 Got news for you: clicking this video is optional.
@@CoralCopperHead the video is good but the Ai gibberish is bad, so 90 percent of the video is good. Your take is something an autistic retard would say to another autistic retard. Unfortunately for you, you’re talking to a high IQ rapist.
The JC text-to-speech neural network might have copper wiring to reroute its fear of pain, but I got nerves of steel.
Vídeo idea: Deus Ex noob traps. Bad mods, bad skills, useless items. Swimming, the silenced pistol, etc, and bad choices you can make. As always great vid!
using both accuracy mods and laser sight at the same time.
installing scopes
Yep this is a good one
This is a great idea. I may get started on this... within 6 months
@BaconHer0 within the week we will have a new deus ex video running the world
The Silenced Pistol can carry you the whole game. The Unatco Soldier outside of the base selling bullets pairs well with it, that's the *real* noob trap.
It won't fight 'bots, but headshots from silenced weapons get a huge damage bonus. The later agents and even commandos don't fair well when you hit them while they're unaware; a good example is the underwater lab "boss fight" as without augs turned on Simmons has *zero* ballistic resistance which makes him *as tough as a regular Unatco soldier.*
JC Denton became Chinese-Irish about 4:20 into the video.
I got a Norwegian vibe.
Basically, the game ses if you hit the target the conventinal hitscan way, and then applies the bullet drop afterward, simulating the effects of a bullet curving downard on it's trajectory, but the logic doesn't apply in reverse: If you aim higher to try and account for the bullet drop, gravity will mysteriously fail to act upon your bullets again and you'll just miss.
The irate, downright exasperated way JC says "like a *spider*" got me so good holy shit
He knew that analogy was going down in flames.
AVGN vibes
Why does JC explain how bullet drop works to his enemies? Is he stupid?
Den in KYork
@@BaconHer0 what does it mean? 🥺
No.. they are stupid, and JC feels sorry for them. How can they have an epic battle if they are as educated on bullet drop as a kindergartner?
@@CallOfCutie69 His enemies are alive with wounded legs - JC is just trying to explain that it’s not his fault
@@geefreck makes sense
"It's just a laser beam that goes pew and does maths" is a great line
I figured the game had something like this since I was missing wayyy too many headshots.
It is implemented in a bizarre way, and standing on a box negates the whole thing? This game's code must be very interesting.
As a game dev who just pushed a hacky ass fix to stay on track for release next month... I get why did it like this.
it's not even a fix, it's just an artistic choice that adds nothing but frustration
As a game dev.. the reason they went for this approach instead of a more physically believable one is that instead of a single raycast they'd need anywhere from tens to hundreds of short-range raycasts per bullet if they were to simulate bullet travel believably.
A laser-straight line might hit, but once you start taking bullet drop into account, any number of objects in between the shooter and the target could stop the bullet, so all objects need to be tested for repeatedly. This is just not feasible to do in a game behavior script in 1999.
We *can* do this these days, but it requires that a new bullet tracing system is built into the engine which will collect a list of potential targets by essentially testing each potential object against a projected box starting from the muzzle and ending up at max range, adjusted for ballistic drop, and then each object needs to be tested for intersection with the ballistic path in order of distance to origin.
*THIS* could have been done in 1999, but it would have needed to be an engine feature, and by the time someone decided to add a bullet drop mechanic, it wasn't going to be included in engine core.
@@peterjohnson9438this is so interesting and well explained. I love the fact that such an epic and unique game as Deus Ex, still had a lot of out of the way quickfixes. It goes to teach us a lesson: start now, not "when prepared" you are going to figure it out along the way, and even if it isnt the best solution, you will have something great to work with.
@@peterjohnson9438 Yeah, this is pretty spot on. While they were stuck with performance limitations back in those days, I'd still wager the bullet drop was added in later in the development process and the devs at least had an idea of a better way to do it. When I was doing a physics simulation module in college the professor showed us a really elegant solution to somewhat simulate bullet drop from some older games (younger than Dues Ex) that just needed stuff from cmath IIRC. That being said I was still shitting in diapers when they were developing this game so maybe I don't fully grasp how lightweight stuff truly had to be. I have looked under the hood of Deus Ex a fair bit, but my focus was more on enemy behaviors. I wouldn't say you're testing of any and all objects between the player and target or hundreds of traces would be strictly necessary to make something more convincing than what's in at the minute. Why not just end your first trace at accurate range and then do a new trace at a deviated angle for however many range increments are left on the gun up to max range. That's a max of 5, maybe 6. Not a perfect parabolic arc by any means and more expensive than what's here now, but assuming the player is the only one that uses that functionality and it's turned off or called less for rapid fire guns, I wouldn't think something like that would plummet the games performance.
My first thought last night when watching the leg shooting part of the video was to do 2-3 small line traces from the enemy at different heights in the direction of the player to check for cover and then cancel the damage to the areas below the trace if it receives a hit. Surely that'd be slight improvement on what's in now and wouldn't break the bank in terms of performance.
@@peterjohnson9438 the thing is just that they didn't need to add bullet drop. most players don't know it's a feature anyway. it's only fun if you can clearly see it and account for it. i don't think bullet drop and hitreg are really compatible anyway.
Gunther: Please give me a weapon and move out of the way
JC:
Deus Ex has bullets?!
I just used JC's thicc cheeks to deal with enemies the whole game
According to this video, no. It has laser spiders.
Hey, glad to see this video finally got made! I've known about this stupid mechanic for 6 years, but it's stayed as arcane knowledge since it's so difficult to explain without busting out math and code.
However, I did still learn some things from this video. Firstly, that a foot shot will always stay a foot shot even at maximum range (fake bullet drop doesn't lead to misses), and secondly that the fake bullet drop doesn't apply if you shoot from elevation. I think your theory in one of the comment replies is correct -- this is probably because all hitboxes are cylinders in Deus Ex, and the hit location has to be somewhere on the surface of that cylinder. So if the original hit location is on the top of the cylinder, it can't move down in the Z direction at all -- you only have a Z direction to move down if the original hit location is on the side of the cylinder.
I sure do love (/hate) Deus Ex.
Thanks for giving me the idea dude.
After further testing it seems you need to be 280ft up in order to hit the head of someone 300ft away with a pistol
So it's a bit higher than I thought.
Yeah I was wondering too why elevation matters, and your idea makes sense as to why it would negate it.
wtf I played without knowing about that little side screen mechanic
@@thrwwccnt5845 it's cool how messing with different augs can warrant entire new replays. Time to reinstall and get that spy drone my friend
Wait you mean it's not a mod??
It's just the targeting aug level 4
@@thrwwccnt5845 i left a really great comment here but idk if it's showing up. Hoping it is so you might see it
REMEMBER🕷
THE🕷
CRAWLING🕷
SPIDER🕷
I like the analogy. The spider attacks your face, hits your face, drops, and saves itself by attaching & attacking your leg afterwards.
Guns shoot spiders, confirmed!
THE HIGHGROUND!
George Lucas knew all along.
I'm both familiar with basic physics and 90s gaming principles but I still delighted in hearing an approximation of "JC Denton" telling me ahout it
Now I'm going to imagine that bullets in Deus Ex are actually little spider bots that will either bite the target on hit, or crawl down the target's leg before biting them.
It's over Walton, I have the High Ground!
Two types of BaconHer0 enjoyers:
Gunther Hermann who yearns to learn the wisdom of JC's experience with Deus Ex Jankombat to better defeat his enemies.
Maggie Chow who watches with morbid curiosity as JC's nanoaugments malfunction in spectacular fashion from behind an observation window.
‘but done in a really really terrible way’ somehow doesn’t seem so bad when it’s deus ex doing it.
@@chunkymilk It's the JC halo effect
I like to think that Maggie has seen weirder shit outside the window
@@Banzeken Firing a LAW at that window never gets old.
@@CaptDestroDamn, I have to try that when I replay DE for the Nth time!
Deus Ex has bullet drop?!
HR & MD does, but not OG because this is from the toddler age of programming. Don't know if the ModDb Better-Bullets mod still works but it can easily fix this, this mess!
@@XSilver_WaterXI need to play the OG Deus Ex (well actually GOTY edition), because I think the only weapons that use bullet drop mechanic are the darts from crossbow, the assault rifle grenade launcher and the plasma rifle.
About the crossbow there is a dude CatSkinCap that make a funny walkthrough and he do a 360 with that weapon in the Ocean Base.
@@hernanreipp3321 Have you experimented with other mods with GOTY and base game, I tried with the cheap and free Revision mod with TNM and bullet drops are stupidly common! Toss a molotov at a bunch of baddies, only for, what's TNM's protag's name, Timmy, J.D., Carley if you used the female addon? Sorry, only for your guy to throw the molotov at his feet at burn!
@@XSilver_WaterX Sadly I only have the GOTY edition and barely use any mod on My Deus Ex.
I willl make the same test our buddy do here to understand this mechanic a little more.
It's all in the numbers
4:20 didn't know JC was fluent in Sims
Albanian*
Holy shit he used affect and effect in conjunction function to explanation Deus Ex's shoddy ballistics! This is why I love this game!
I didn’t realize the guns were supposed to hit anything
It feels like I'm watching decino, lol
4:44 Go ahead Mr. Joestar
I feel like this game is tabletop RPG cosplaying as FPS.
Feet seeking missiles 😋
why the fuck did he heart this
@@SteeleJohnson-o7uhe hearts most things
to hide his true feelings
I like how when reading the pseudocode I go "wait, this is hitscan how the heck is this supposed to work", and the answer is it doesn't work at all.
This changes everything about the gunplay for me holy shit.
"Laserbeam that just goes pew and does math" might be my favourite definition of hitscan to date.
The spider analogy actually explains it fairly well, nice work! I think most people didn't even know Deus Ex had bullet drop, me included.
4:19 Guys I think his killswitch is almost up. F
When he said the solution to bullet drop was a meme, I expected it to be the GEP gun.
You'd have thought they could have used the modelling the dart gun arrows are based on, since they can be predicably aimed high at long range to drop and get headshots, can't penetrate cover AND agent accuracy does affect this muh muh muh. They could have just shrunk the dart (or made it invisible) and sped it up to have actual ballistics modelling for bullet weapons, but I guess hitscan is so much easier and technically more reliable to use in-game, if the system it's playing on has memory issues/slow down.
Yeah back then the average home PC was like 500mhz with a 16mb graphic card and 64 to 128mb of ram. That's megabytes!
Also consider that this game was in development since the late 90s, so the Devs probably started off with specs much lower than that
Modelling every single bullet as a projectile, especially for machine gun and shotgun, would have been very taxing
I’m know for a fact that Requiem: Avenging Angel (1999) models individual bullets fired by the player and enemies alike, which is also why they can be slowed down and easily dodged using the Time Warp power (basically Bullet Time before Bullet Time). Don’t remember if there is drop-off in the game but I see no reason why there couldn’t have been a more basic implementation added (say, shift the Y-position of the bullet X number of units after travelling Y distance or some such thing).
There is a absolutely no way systems at the time could model individual bullets in real time. Ion storm was not very good at technical programming, they leaned heavily into story and art, not optimizing code.
i always loved how jagged alliance 2, a game just as old, managed to get ballistics right.
Remember that a headshot is a lethal tak....
_"Shut up Alex"_
I was literally thinking a week ago “man i miss those goofy Deus Ex explainer videos with the AI aneurysms…”
Always happy to see you upload Deus Ex vids!
Finally back to your best content!
>Trying to make hitscan have bullet physics
oh nooo nohoho
What's wrong with parabolic hitscan?
@@AntiCookieMonster It's a lot of math for something that happens a lot during combat. Not a problem now, computers have enormous strength compared to what originally ran the game, but the less math a game has to do *or more simplified math* the better for players. The fight outside of Osmond and Son's (The warehouse outside of the 'Ton) would've been a laggy mess if every bullet had to not only do a laser hit-scan, but also determine *if the bullet fell* and then by *how much* making 3x the work for the processor.
Nothing is wrong with parabolic hitscans in modern games; older PC's just couldn't handle the girth without lagging a ton.
@@AntiCookieMonsterUE1 doesn't have any curved trace functions, you get a start point and an end point to work with as world coordinates. You might see a few ways in which doing parabolic curves accurately when you only have straight lines could be difficult. So someone would've had to write such a function in C++ for the unrealscript programmers to use on the weapons
Paul.......... I....... I...... I thought I was a Gep Gun
A nightmare, huh
Thanks, always enjoying the info bits on Deus Egg.
"I was never properly trained in its usage. Does that mean I *don't* get the hit scan?" --J.C. Jerkface, probably
UA-cam Algorithm doing wonders. Awesome channel, gonna watch through the older stuff. Love the Denton VA xd
This is fascinating to hear about, I love seeing games abstract-ify real life concepts into gameish form, even if it's not 100% like the actual thing as shown here.
Cruelty squad better is what this mean
Cloaca Squid
@@SteeleJohnson-o7u you don't have the ceo mindset
Thanks J.C, good to know.
Honestly its a pretty cool way of doing bullet drop without making a whole system to calculate the physics affect on the bullets. You know this was one devs baby of a feature. Just a cool little idea they probably proposed and coded up on their own in a week.
this garbage better not have taken an entire week
2:04 (Maggie Chow terrified of the demon outside her 40th floor window)
This sounds like a problem my Mini-Crossbow doesn't understand.
Quite an interesting mechanic. It is also supremely stupid that you can not correct your aim by aiming upwards, but calculating the bullet trajectory might have been too difficult
I remember back in the day trying to hit distant targets with the tranq darts, and noticed the bullet drop was:
"Fly straght out to a set distance, then aim ~35 degrees downward."
There was nothing natural or intuitive about compensting for this bullet drop, unlike trying to aim real projectiles.
I guess the hitscan weapons were equally janky!
This is nearly correct -- for both hitscan and projectile weapons, the accurate range denotes the distance where shots fly straight, after which gravity takes effect. For hitscan weapons it leads to this stupid fake bullet drop, while for projectile weapons it leads to actual acceleration downwards on the velocity. This means you don't have to account for gravity on the mini-crossbow if you're within 50 ft. Also, the max range stat for projectile weapons is meaningless.
Since range mods do nothing but increase the accurate range stat on weapons, they literally do nothing when applied to the plasma rifle, GEP gun, or flamethrower, but they do make the mini-crossbow shoot straight for a longer distance.
Weirdly, while grenades are always affected by gravity, they get doubled gravity beyond accurate range, since the projectile drop code applies on top of the general gravity code.
@@rosodudersd260 interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing.
Classic 2000's jank, gotta love it
That Zyme got me seeing little green aliens. Shit hit like an augment. Got my eyes lookin like straight percs.
The AI voice is so perfect, I'm crying rn. Someone make a mod with this.
Objective proof that the GEP gun is the best way to make a silent takedown.
wow that's nuts. also good job explaining ballistics
THE KING RETURNS
Understandable why this mechanic isn't well known. It doesn't make any sense.
4:20 When Helios merged with John Deus Ex but instead melts his brain
Interesting. It did model ballistics for the mini crossbow though. I remember having to aiming higher to compensate for the range issues with it.
Yeah darts are actual projectiles. So ironically, darts have accurate ballistics modelling
Clearly they they were on the _high_ ground when they implemented the bullet drop.
I love how he talks to Maggie Chow through the window.
I have some good news for both of you.
'Ok?'
'And?'
I have contamination and spiders in my brain
'Just another parasite'.
That is why you need a skullgun
Because every shot with a skullgun is a headshot
Finally the comeback of the DX King 👑.
I've been waiting so long for ya video, if you don't mind us asking, why? Is it hard to make new content about DX or irl problems?
If it's former I think a good way to branch out is to talk about DX mods or it's sequels, those too have some depth to em to discuss
I'm just super busy with work. I'm the lead of 2 teams and I'm pretty much on call 24/7 if shit goes wrong... and things always go wrong lol
Hidden gem of a channel
So that's what these "acc. range" and "max range" are for. I thought the only purpose of accuracy range is disable cross aim colour when you are aiming on enemies outside acc.range.
the spider metaphor sounds very strange with JC's voice
The man is back
_It's over JC, I have the high ground!_
the thinking man's ballistics
4:22 Our machine lord and savior is speaking in tongues again. I'm pretty sure he briefly turns Italian and Turkish...
4:28 Begging Dante to stop pulling JC downwards to levels of Inferno.
Interesting! JC has a very programmer voice. :D
One day. Deus ex will become so modded that we will end up with a Completely different game
I enjoyed/endured this video.
You had to enjoy/endure much, you and I
JC had a stroke and started speaking simlish
1:40 -But... What about the accuracy?!- For those actually wondering, it just changes the angle of where the shot lands. Let's be honest here, how often do you *seriously* expect to snipe long range targets while running?
I've been playing Deus Ex for 24 years. And TIL there is bullet drop. And its bad.
doos ex
day-us ex
deus ekk
✡️ sex
This is the strangest way to simulate bullet drop I have ever seen.
Surprisingly. It would've been extremely easy to just bend the hitscan path (by doing more hitscans, each with a ray length limit) after the 150ft. Just bend it once at 150, then again at 200, then again at 250, etc. The coding required for this, and the computation would've been very negligible, and would've made for "accurate" (at least somewhat) bullet drop that could be compensated for by a skilled player.
But god that is a BADLY implemented mechanic
This was a funny one!! I am used to run right to the enemy and shoot him in the face point blank so hitscan or accuracy doesn't bother me much. What I don't get is how far those 300ft actually is on the map itself, I don't remember ever reaching a limit.
Long time ago in my first few playthroughs I used crossbow with sleeping arrows. Crossbow should have some real drop mechanics but is easy to hit aiming above even with all the inaccuracy - you just need to hit and it's over. But after seeing how stupid the AI behavior is (most evident in VersaLife labs) it all become pointless for the sake of pistol efficiency.
why are there random muted clips of J.C. talking randomly interspersed? i don't imagine they're related to the audio speech in the video because there's no lipsync at all and they feel just coincidental to that lol
Yeah I didn't spend a lot of time on this part. Wish there were an easier way to do this. AI animation just looks too out of place
4:51 on Fahrenheit (you finally realized that underwater base level was slightly modified moon base level all along)
I love these games
welcome back!
welcome back, agent.
Bullet drop... on hitscan... what the actual fu-
Worst part is, this could be done better very easily even with hitscan, simply spawning new tracers at different, lower trajectories the farthest the distance, and checking if it collides with something. That way you won't hit feet behind cover, and you can compensate by aiming higher.
holy shit. what a mess. thanks for the video!!
I do find it weird that they do have the bullets be hitscan. Since UE1 is totally capable of having projectiles with "somewhat" realistic bullet drop physics.
Physics moves are kind of inconsistent in UE1 at high speed since projectiles tend to not use solid collision. Bumps are traced during updates but not touches, so at low FPS you could have your actor go straight through another unless you updated the physics code to handle that.
Which they didn't do. That's why you can lagjump through thin nonsolid actors like the lasers or any kind of small triggers. Quicksaving is sufficient to abuse that fact lol
I have to drop something, hehe, hold on.
here's what JC would look like if he was Black or Chinese:
4:20
The (augmented) vision is spreading