CRC Synod 2024: Balancing Local and Synodical Authority to Ride Through This Confessional Crisis
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- @crcna Monday Afternoon - June 17 - Synod 2024 www.youtube.co...
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The fun of the CRC videos is that you so obviously love the people, the history, the challenges.
If there is a split between those who wish to invite ducks to the table and those who have a humans only rule communion, a group will emerge which seeks for both opinions to be welcome under the one umbrella of the CRC: “Better ToFeather.”
You dad joke game has been on elite level lately … it’s a tell you have young kids in your house. Optimal training to keep your game sharp.
1) I had nothing to do with the livestream chat being shut down. They banned me from the channel on Monday.
2) Women who cry at Synod should be immediately ejected from the CRC.
😂😂😂😂😂
Number 2 is ontological truth
How then shall they virtue signal?
1) Sorry I blamed you unfairly. No doubt policing the comments was too much of a burden.
2) Do you remember that scene from Monty Python's "Holy Grail" when the French used a catapult to launch farm animals at King Arthur and his men? In regards to crying women at Synod, I can think of a new use for that catapult....
I’m getting too deep into the CRC. I was quite sympathetic to “Rita’s Cry”, but then UA-cam suggested the Independent CRC Canada (that’s not the name) talk and I watched it and recognized her, and she was so flippantly and stereotypically anti-American that I lost most of my sympathy. Starting to recognize characters in the story is an odd thing.
Bingo. With people like Rita, emotional manipulation is a tactic, not something sincerely felt.
Highlights today for me was the greetings from the three African churches. Really inspiring stuff and absolute class. Pray for Sudan.
A hard contrast to the preachy RCA representative who mentioned sharing office with CRC staff since the denominational building was sold? Well that's worrying. She also couldn't control her face while delegates were discussing ecumenical relations.
Need more Phlebus thoughts. The very consistent messaging from literally almost delegate or guest who isn’t white is an elephant in the room for me which the progressives seem to refuse to even see.
I spent 2 hours in the bank today. Really frustrated me. Then had cluster meeting. I missed a lot. It's hard to keep up.
So... Are they actually addressing issues which are bound to come up related to SSM, like whether non-sexual marriage will be somehow reclassified, or all SSM encouraged to break up or ??
Maybe that stuff is in the HSR?
@@PaulVanderKlayI chuckled thinking of you entering multilayered digressions in your stick-em-up note
I knew Laura from my time in campus ministry in the US. I appreciate her work with international students in Michigan. However, last night, I told my wife that in light of our experience ministering here in South Africa, and hearing the testimonies of the African delegates to Synod, I found that her comments rang hollow. And knowing the decisions already made and the questions being asked of the RCA, I felt she missed an opportunity to truly speak to the delegates of synod. Instead, it felt like a canned speech that spoke to the establishment who--for better or worse, depending on who you are--isn't the reality of who the CRC is now.
I would like for it to be officially be known I never post it the CRC chats. 😂
Jacob however got banned yesterday. I told him today I would have banned him too. 😎
I second this.
Why am I not surprised Jacob got banned... :)
I have to like this just because 😂
It's because of Jacob's behavior that we can't have nice things.
@@Pseudo_BoethiusIt's because of his words the chaff is cut
I am hopeful for the ways synod's decisions may spur on richer, more robust, whole-life catechesis and discipleship. I think the distinctions between the expectations for members compared to officebearers is good and helpful. The effort made to balance authority/ministry/mission between the local church and higher assemblies expresses a desire for unity, consistency, and trust, while also giving some flexibility and room for creativity in ministry and mission with the bounds of our shared confessions. (Though, I don't know if everyone sees it this way)
Uh-oh. Is the CRC going to split over how to pronounce "gravamina"?
It's "gravamens" you heretic! Don't make me file an overture.....
“Synod kind of staggers around like a drunken man” perfect! lol … the lack of setting time limits for deliberation and to act are mind boggling for us who have actually run effective governance. The droning and repeating is exhausting in the CRC.
We all grumble about it too, but that's the unique parts. We recognize our own depravity, and lean on grace for our redemption.
Some folks need a little more sanctification. 😊
@@stevevos1765 lol love that response
It can be maddening to sit on the floor and see Rev. X and Elder Y stand up to address EVERY topic while the clock ticks by. I have to really watch myself because I can get punchy and then unwelcome snarky practical jokes come out sideways...
To an extent I can’t explain, probably because I’m not a political scientist, I’d say this level of bureaucracy is why the CRC is able to navigate differently than the UMC. The CRC may be the first Protestant denomination to not “split right”.
My late grandfather was a CRC church planter in Hemet CA
Man this all ducks matter section is very good
From what I've seen the RCA, PCA, and now URC never allowed comments so I say good on the CRC for trying 😂
Totally. I would never have comments open for that type of thing,
A TLC livestream is about as obscure a thing as there it and even that brings in 50% haters.
Paul's right. It's y'all. 😂
@@stevevos1765 I’d be curious, other than Jacob, most of us recognize this is a CRC thing and don’t really interfere on those chats. I’ll check the live chat out because I don’t even have those on while watching.
@@lancecleaver227I wasn't watching chat at the time but plenty of CRC people were arguing throughout Synod. There actually were very few TLC people commenting. I did one comment the entire Synod because it's not really my place and those people baptized me! An old classmate of mine was even speaking today.
OG PVK viewers know after a messy video comes a classic video. The duck eats bread illustration was near Orwellian, playful and useful. we need animators in the corner to start working on it.
It’s kinda interesting watching clips of synod as someone who used to be CRC and is now Orthodox. I have memory once volunteering in the children’s ministry when I was a teenager at the church and I was speaking to the adult in church for some reason we got on the topic of the 5 points of Calvinism. The woman said she disagreed with about half of them. I responded like “don’t you have to agree with those to be a member?” And she responded “probably, but it goes against my conscience.” So to say that not all members of the CRC agree with the CRC would be accurate! (And this was in the GR area!)
(I commented this earlier and had some spelling errors, they’ve since been fixed!)
Have been curious to hear your thoughts. Or rather, to read between the lines of what you’re saying to hear your thoughts lol.
Oh no! Did Tgrog get into the synod live stream?
“Seems like delegates can’t agree on what Christianity is… must mean Christianity isn’t real!!!”
I think at times you might have more than archetypes noodling in the head Paul! 😆 Seems like some literal voices might be living rent free! I mean this as as compliment.
I also dislike the dichotomy that's often presented. But the more that we fail to understand 'the other', the more straw men we build against them. I might be a fairly conservative fellow, but that doesn't make up my identity. Pretty tough to lump the labels on many of these folks, but one thing is proving to be true: the majority present seem to understand what they would like to see out of the CRC. There are lines we'd prefer not to cross. Here's how we will imperfectly try to draw it.
If it makes you feel better, I have also received messages asking if I was the reason the comments section got shut down
It walks like a duck, talks like a duck, BUT does it weigh as much as a duck???
My denomination is UMJC. We aren't very confessional but are more theological than ethnic. The local rabbi is boss, and we count on him to make elders and to mind the denominational business.
Following the CRC Synod? 21st century flagellant ;-) Lived in a village with three churches a generation ago, now dropping to two. A question, if this is how Dutch Calvinists behaved 450 years ago, how did it survive the 80 Years War?
"None of these rules mean anything unless they're loved and seen as useful"
What would you think of a church that didn't love and see the Ten Commandment as useful? Would you think that there was something not quite right about it?
Would it ... need reform?
PVK is correct on this point: rules are only used and enforced if they are seen as useful.
As for the Ten Commandments....it seems they are mostly hated by the urban monoculture, and yes, there is certainly something not quite right about it.
20:00 Duck Duck C.W.!!!!!
Unless I'm mistaken I think they lost the first part of Tuesday afternoon because of how they took down the livestream. This is a real shame that they can hopefully fix.
I think they just fixed it. The stream momentarily came through as a premiere.
PVK has G-d's sense of humor. But theologically ... he is a quack ;-))
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably is PVK.
@@Pseudo_Boethius No, he just loves bread, he really really does.
@@jimluebke3869 -- And I love bread too, I really, really do.
“Our polity is holding up.”
You could say that the RCA is falling victim to its constitutional nature.
You could say the CRC is falling victim to its lack of a constitutional nature aka mob rule.
RCA seems to be falling victim to chaining itself to the Spirit of the Age.
Hope you heard your shout-out today on the floor Paul- "Mr Vanderploeg goes to Synod"
It's 10 PM, but I think I have 45 minutes in me for this.
I didn't. I'll have to check the transcript.
If anyone has a timestamp or a rough idea where it is I'd like to hear it.
@@PaulVanderKlay This evening, 1:44 ish. Kris Vos, no immediate relation 🙂, on the work of Classis SE with multi-site churches.
Sorry, 1:44:00 on that timestamp.
@@PaulVanderKlaySpeaker at 1:45:00 where we find out Scott is actually a Bishop.
🥖🦆
I was probably part of the reason they shut down the comments. I mentioned that I grew up Nazarene, am ecclesially homeless, and love psalmody.
I don't think that the CRC wants much outside attention. There is fairly strong "den mother" energy in the CRC.
My live tweets got some checks in in Twitter and Paul’s UA-cam comments … folks were ready to narc out a rogue delegate tweeter lol… guess I also sound like an insider too
@@lancecleaver227 let's be honest... I think Jacob got us all in trouble 🙂
CRC needs to toughen up a bit.
Bread isn’t good for ducks.
But they sure love it.
There's a parallel in that metaphor... somewhere.
@@stevevos1765 Sure is. Low nutrition, fouls their environment, can harm the growth of their young and attract disease, vermin and pests. How’s that?
@@BrysonCole-rl2rj Now do humans and (x) vice. 🙂
@@stevevos1765It’s to do with what we prefer to feed ourselves within and without the church.
Heretic!
Ahhhh - so many tangents - stay on point
Welcome to the show
Just wait until they let ostrich in!
NEVER!!!
There are some lines that should not be crossed. Let's not be silly, ostriches are not even aquatic! (Nor do they love bread.)
Ducks and geese are baptized as chicks. I don’t see why they should be excluded from the lords supper. Those dirty pigeons on the other hand …
Thanks for yesterday’s video’s orientation and historical clarity of the CRC’s demographic narrative of assimilation through the seeker movement ecclesiology and ‘Resonate’s formation from Navajo Home Missions and Nigerian World Missions. It was inspiring today to see the pole and plastic churches of South Sudan!
“I don’t like these labels of liberal and conservative”
They work more often than they don't.
@@Pseudo_Boethius Conservatives haven't been all that great at conserving, for the last while.
They're pushed to "compromise" with the arsonists time and time again, to only burn down part of the house.
A shout-out from the floor today PVK!
I heard David and his "Confessional Conversation" speech. It was tremendous. Wish it had passed.
@PaulVanderKlay yes. I'm a big fan of David Salverda although I didn't completely understand the avenue he was promoting.
Muggy to say the least . Record heat 🔥
Do you realize that bread actually is very bad for ducks!
Do you ever have second thoughts about large institutional church?
No, the levels need each other and are usually present despite different ecclesiologies.
@@PaulVanderKlay Didn't think you would :) Just all the inside baseball is really just cementing for me the balance of positive and negative that Babel-like large structures bring.
This’ll sound flippant but I don’t mean it to be. When you say you need to do some Heidelberg Catechism sermons, that sounds to me like some CRC propaganda sessions. Presumably you think that’s a mischaracterization, but I’m not sure why. It’s kind of a semantic question, but any thoughts?
It certainly could be that. However, in the CRC we believe that the confessions are accurate summaries of Scripture and useful for teaching. In the best case using the Catechism can be helpful for teaching a congregation portions of Scripture. However bad actors will do what bad actors do.
@@moecrazy Thanks. I guess what I meant was that if you have a person from a non-CRC background come into the church with heterodox ideas vis-a-vis the doctrines of grace, it sounds to me like they need "correcting". You could put ominous negatives overtones to that or you could just frame it as teaching what the church historically believes to be true (innocent enough). The issue I guess arises when the person listens to the teaching and objects on Biblical grounds that they're unconvinced. What then? Are they unwelcome as a CRC member or are they just barred from any ascent in the church hierarchy? And how does that capture what the ultimate purpose (priority?) of the church is?
These are kind of unfair questions, but they stick out to me.
@@matthewkilbride1669 good questions. This all has more to do with office bearers than membership. If they have heterodox ideas membership shouldn’t be a problem. It’s when there is a desire to be a deacon, elder, or minister where those things become more important
My goodness, that duck-but had me laughing hard^^
Bit, not but
Finally an idea I can fully support: inviting ducks to the Lord's Supper, because, as we all know, ducks love bread. After all, love is love.
Call me duck affirming. But you are correct, there are lines that should not be crossed, and allowing Canada geese would be an abomination of the highest order. Let's keep this to ducks only, and not other species.
"I love my duck!" - Larry the Cucumber, as King David
Amazing how VeggieTales was able to make the story of David and Bathsheba G-rated, just changing a single letter.
@@jimluebke3869 -- I must admit, VeggieTales was a stunning achievement in it's day. It was probably a better apologetic for Christianity than anything any intellectual ever came up with.
I haven't watched all of the synod videos but I think we sometimes forget how community oriented some of the local churches are and that they need to be able to shape their ministry to the needs locally (while still abiding by the confessions, etc). This coming from a Canadian who has seen how different ministry can be between churches and also across borders.
Is the course created by your colleague on the four Ps of truth for church publicly available?
15:20 Y'ALL CAN'T BEHAVE
Super interesting from the 12-15 minute mark. If the goal is evangelism and growing the church, how does that square with the need for theological confessionality? “Hey, come on in! Welcome! If you progress in the church and get some leadership, though, better not disagree or we’ll kick you out.”
Seems like theological distinctive have to be forefronted during evangelism.
Do they actually kick out members individually? I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, just wondering. My old Sunday school teacher who went to prison, I actually don't know what was done about his church membership (this was not CRC).
@@chrishoward8473 I really don’t know. I’m not CRC. But it seems like there’s a double standard where, if you’re entering the church, you’re welcome, but if you develop a recognized leadership role, an orthodoxy test kicks in (or at least that’s what being discussed).
I’ll give you my story. I was baptized and raised Catholic and as an adult joined an evangelical church. The then pastor wanted me to take on a formal leadership role on the condition that I get re-baptized. I refused. They didn’t kick me out, but my role in the church was limited from there on out. Seems similar to what they’re discussing in the CRC.
@@matthewkilbride1669 that doesn't seem too bad. To go further you would have to agree more... Organizations with a goal do that.
@@chrishoward8473 I agree in general, except that with Protestant churches, a foundation of the Reformation was a "priesthood of believers." Protestantism is full of internal contradictions but they want to cling on to them without acknowledging them. I'd prefer if they just admitted to how Catholic in practice they actually are. As JBP says, hierarchies are inevitable, so give up the "Papism" critique.
Also interesting today: RCA exchanges relatively unchanged. Some ex-RCA on the floor with spicy comments.
Multi-site churches, Bishop Vanderploeg. What to do? Denomination within denomination?