What he says about peppermints is 100% truth. He showed the premium high end Queen Wilhelmina mints. Most congregants use the more common King mints. They are both available at Dutch stores.
As a Dutch guy going to a Reformed Church in the Netherlands, it's interesting to see the differences and similarities. And yes of course I had some Peppermint during the sermon. (So normal for me, that I find it funny to hear that it is not normal elsewhere. ;-) )
As a pastor in the CRC, you did a good job covering us. One thing to add. 10:35 Those two Calvin University professors professors were reprimanded for those comments and one of them left Calvin University as a result.
I visited your website before offering this question and it seemed that you do your best to show sides. What’s more important, the unity of a denomination or preaching Gods word from the Bible? Id say there’s too much focus on people in these discussion. We exist to praise and obey him.
I really enjoy your explications of so many denominations. Some are more or less familiar to me, others are entirely unknown. Every time, you present documented, non-judgmental and comprehensible information. You are a fantastic teacher.
My Frisian great grandfather in bellflower was one of the leading voices to use English in the CRC, the Frisians didn't understand Dutch so they agreed to use English.
Thanks for this video. As someone who grew up outside of the denomination, but now serves as a Minister of the Word in the CRC, you got a lot right! One issue that is currently being further debated and clarified is that of Gravamen 3:37 . What you detailed, with the ability to take exceptions, was put forward late 2022 by our church order professor. However, Synod 2023 was going to repudiate and overturn that explanation, before some delegates orchestrated a walk out, and postponed the vote until Synod 2024. For any that want to hear the other side of this issue, look up the “Abide Project” on Substack, and the series “A More Accurate History of Gravamen.”
Thank you, Joshua. My maternal roots are Dutch. I am a Member of a Congregational Way church, as you know, outgrown from the "separatist" church that sojourned in Holland before emigrating to North America. Blessings.
Really enjoyed this video! I was looking for videos to put on for my drive back home from visiting my girlfriend at Calvin university when this popped up in my subscriptions
My college would play Dordt College, (from the Canons of Dordt) twice every year. They were affiliated with the CRC. And in a heavily Dutch area in northwest Iowa.
I know of a happily married couple. The wife grew up in a CRC family considered to be the more conservative church. The parents did not want their daughter to date a man who was a member of an RCA church in the nearby town of Orange City. Then the young woman dated a Muslim. The conservative family rushed to encourage their daughter to date the RCA member. The woman married the Muslim and they have been married for many years.
As a general comment on the Reformed branch, the argument between Zwingli and Luther over the Eucharist is prototypical of the Reformation and kind of legendary.
This is gonna be a niche comment, but my partner is a member of the CRC and im an Anglican, this is gonna be so useful for me to have on hand!!! Thank you!
@@aLadNamedNathan Partner in this context may be directly synonymous with significant other - whether they be a fiancé (engaged couple), a person they’re dating (boyfriend or girlfriend), or spouse (husband or wife).
@@leullakew9579 It could be--but unlikely. After homosexuals started using this term, heterosexuals dropped it in favor of husband/wife, fiance/fiancee, boyfriend/girlfriend.
@@aLadNamedNathan I would agree, but it’s really a shame that the LGBT movement now dominate in the use of the term to the extent that it’s now taboo for non-affirming/non-LGBT endorsing heterosexual couples to use. I’d generally go for the term significant other if I would want to be vague about their gender for privacy reasons or when talking about something that can apply to both genders in a romantic relationship (but the term significant other may be too strongly linked to marriage depending on the context or sociolect and may not always work when someone is trying to describe something that is relevant to several stages or romantic relationships (like dating, engagement, and marriage). To be honest though, I’ve rarely every used the term “partner” in this context personally, but I know that it’s used a lot in very technical and dispassionate situations like news reports, police reports, etc. in the same way “deceased” and “domicile” are used when talking about someone’s “death” and “home” respectively.
I grew up in the CRC and I have seen it change a lot over the last 60 years. But so too have I changed. For as much as I believe in the value of strong doctrine on the person and work of Christ, I am saddened that denominationalism plays such a central role in our Christian experience. The CRC and its splinter churches have fallen victim to cultural influences just as have so many other denominations. For the CRC, the evolution / creation debates and the role of women serving in church office (pastor, elder, etc) has defined the CRC as long as I've been alive. So pervasive has this influence been that Christ has effectively been pushed out of His church. At least when I was a kid, the CRC could be identified as Christ-centered. Yet today, because our Savior has been pushed to the sidelines, you see a much larger focus on things of cultural importance like social justice. Consider Calvin College's tagline, "think deeply, to act justly, and to live wholeheartedly as Christ's agents of renewal in the world". This is a complete shift away from historic Reformed teaching in which God is the primary actor in this world and we serve at His command. My prayer is that God will sharpen our focus and lead us to faithfulness in Christ.
While this may reflect a divide between the US and Canada in the CRC, I've not seen as much of a difference. The CRC is still very much a denomination that takes the word of God seriously. Every CRC I've been to has taught from the view that the Bible is infallible, but not inerrant. Perhaps you are seeing more on the side of what the church is doing for evangelicism. I agree that the mission work that the CRC does is more focused on social justice, but that is a generally good thing, especially where the word of Christ has been synonymous with hate.
@@doncorleone1553 When the Gospel of Christ is manipulated to "purge" secular society of "non-Christians" (e.g. enabling Holocaust vs. Jews), when the Bible is used to justify torture and murder (e.g. Spanish Inquisition and Crusades), and is used as justification for North American enslavement of African peoples. May Peace be Upon you. Blessings. Don
I have only ever heard Americans online say this and that's both because it doesn't make any sense in Dutch and also because it is a profoundly "un-Dutch" statement. Dutch culture is very "don't be too weird, don't big yourself up", and also Dutch people generally aren't very patriotic or nationalist.
Born and raised in the CRC for 14 years. The church I went to was pretty conservative in theology and views. My parents saw some of the stuff going on in the CRC as a whole and we started attending a non-dom church. Said to see what is happening there.
Please do the Uniting Church in Australia, im sorry if i have commented so many times but i am not as good as finding sources and displaying them as you are
You captured how CRC congregations and the denomination as whole have often separated themselves somewhat and wanted to do things their way. A few notable effects of that approach that you didn't mention have been the prevalence of and push for Christian Education and development of groups like the Calvinist Cadet Corps or GEMS as opposed to available external organizations.
You should do the United Reformed Churches in North America (URCNA) next, followed by the Canadian Reformed Churches (CanRC) and Reformed Church in the United States (RCUS).
I’m from the South but have lived in Kalamazoo, MI for around 12-13 years. Our neighbors on both sides are Dutch Reformed (which I’d never previously heard of). The grandfather moved here from the Netherlands. His children and grandchildren are our neighbors. Many of the Dutch Ref people in our area are interesting; they’re very strict and are very bogged down with Calvinism. Specifically, the ones we know have no idea whether they are elect or not, so the best they can do is keep the 10 Commandments and hope they are elect. It’s sad 😢 the DR people we know are wonderful people. Very kind and help us occasionally if we need it, e.g., feed our are pets if we’re out of town. And actually now as a Pastor I have former CRC people in my church (people in their 50-60’s) and they found the staunch legalism (at least in their experience) to be crushing and unbearable. Hopefully it’s not that way for all or most of them.
You’ve told the “Grand Rapids” version of the CRCNA story, but something pertinent to the founding and later the survival of the CRC was left out - the TRPDC. The TRPDC was the first secession from what is now called the RCA, secessions which may have started as early as 1815 but definitely got going in the 1820s. Elder Gijsbert Haan spent some time in the east & encountered TRPDC people who filled him in on doctrinal issues with the RCA. His report, when he returned to Michigan, triggered the 2nd, 1857, secession. The TRPDC saved the 2nd secession group from extinction when it found out that RCA pastors were members of the FreeMasons, anathema to Netherlanders, including one who was the chief chaplain for New York state. This was passed along to the 2nd secession group, which caused another secession - and more importantly redirected the flow of Dutch immigrants away from the RCA and to the 2nd secession group. My ancestors’ congregation, which I believe was Grand Rapids 4th Reformed, was part of this secession and in time became the Beckwith Hills C.R.C. Like you said, later on the 1st and 2nd secession groups merged, however this was just Classis Hackensack of the 1st secession group, Classis Union stayed out. They withered away, reorganized as the True Church of Christ in the 1920s, disbanded about 1960, and their last surviving congregation, Sharon, NY, closed its doors in 1982 or 84.
Regarding congregations having women pastors or women in other leadership positions, individual churches do not get to decide: each classis (district or usually geographic group) decides which if any positions are open to women.
It always seems to me that the more rigid a denomination's theology the more prone it is to split over fine points of theology and hair-splitting biblical interpretation - splitting to the point of micro-denominations. It all seems so self-righteous and ego-centered.
I grew up in the Reformed Church of America, the sister branch to this. It split over ordination of women, whether or not hymns can be sung, and I think music and some other minor things.
@@philipmangaoang1352 I'd be curious to know where in the Bible Christians are called to be "[loyal] to the faithful interpretation of God's Word The Bible". We are certainly called to defend the faith, but what I think you're talking about here is theology, not faith. These are two different things. "The faith" is clearly defined in Scripture as summarized in 1 John 4. In that chapter, we are told in verse 2 that "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God". This is the heart of the Christian faith. It is the confession that Jesus is God Incarnate, come in the flesh to save us from our sins, that binds us together as one. Everything else falls into the category of theology. And while I am very much a Reformed Christian to my core, I believe that the loyalty that you describe is misplaced, sinful, and dangerous. Does Jesus say in John 10, "My sheep hear my theology and battle against one another to see who can be the most right"? Of course not! Instead, He says, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." (v 27-20) It is because of the actions of church leaders in Reformed and other denominations that I have become outspoke in the last few years as to the scourge of denominationalism of all types. If anyone professes Jesus as God come to earth from Heaven above then they are my brother or sister in Christ. And even if we disagree around the edges, there is still only "one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph 4:5-6)
Exactly, if Christians want to read Genesis at metaphorical and debatable, you might as well read Exodus through Revelations as metaphorical and debatable as well. There are already many Christians reading Matthew 28 as a metaphor, the verse where Jesus is first said to have risen.
Grew up in a small Dutch town in Iowa where everyone is basically CRC. Was great growing up, but all the Church’s basically got rid of their historic buildings and worship for evangelical like replacements. One of the many reasons I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, although I still do love my CRC heritage and family!
All? There is actually a large movement within the denomination to refocus on Covenant Theology again. Many churches learned the hard way that you can't out Eva the local Big Eva churches.
Where I grew up in Ontario, the CRC was known as the Dutch church and all the members seemed to be the children of Dutch immigrants or the immigrants themselves. Most seemed to be tall and blond, but possibly that was a bit of an exaggeration. There was even an area where they had an almost exclusive settlement called the Holland Marsh. This was named after a man with the surname Holland who had fought against the American invaders in the War of 1812, but by coincident Dutch people were settled there starting in the 1930's. One of my friends was a son of the minister in one of the churches in the marsh (as we said) and later I had a friend who became a minister first in the CRC, but later he moved to a separatists group. There are a few and you did not seem to mention them all. Possibly that is not the subject of the video here, but it is interesting that there is more than one alternative for people who are leaving the CRC. Also, one of the reason why some want a Canadian CRC is that the Canadians in this case seem to be more conservative and possibly they are hoping to stem the tide of splinting off, which is possibly more widespread in Canada.
@@jeffp3415correct, on matters of human sexuality (the current point of primary contention), it is the progressive/affirming side of the CRC in Canada that was trying to split away.
I am very familiar with the peppermint candy being shared in the church, but I have seen KING Pepermunt more often then Wilhelmina Pepermunt. Dutch Wikipedia claims that Wilhelmina is THE brand for 'gereformeerden' and FAAM (never heard of it though...) for the 'Hervormden', but I do not think this is still strictly observed, not even in the very strict Reformed parts of the country.
My Grandfather would bring King Peppermints and zout dropje to church. He would always make his grandkids take the zout dropje first. They were absolutely disgusting. There still is a very strong CRC presence in the Central Valley of California. Lots of Dutch dairy farmers in the Ripon, Escalon and Oakdale area with thriving churches.
A multidenominational group of Biblical scholars double-checked some translations and only changed little parts (changing "brothers" to "brothers and sisters," etc.). I miss little turns of phrase that I learned from the 1984 NIV, but the few changes make sense.
They would by definition be Charismatics. That's literally what Charismatic means. Charismatic is the belief that the signs are still given to believers today, it's not a denomination or church.
If I'm not mistaken, Dr. Schuller was Reformed Church in America. Their building was sold to the Catholics but the Congregation joined the PCUSA when they merged with Irvine Presbyterian Church. Dr Schuller's grandson Bobby and the now Shepherd's Grove Presbyterian Church are now affiliated with the PCUSA. Hour of Power can still be seen around the world on-line and on TV.
They are more conservative than the online materials indicate. Do you recall Joshua mentioning Classis Grand Rapids East? That is the most liberal of the Classis in the denomination and home to most of the office staff of the Denomination.
They are. That's the reason last year's synod went all the way to claiming as a confessional standard that anyone who has ever had sex outside a single male-female marriage can't even be married in the church. A small handful of congregations have more lenient stances toward LGBTQ+ matters, but some classes (districts of several churches) even refuse to acknowledge female representatives sent to the annual Synod.
1:25 its fascinating how generic these complaints are. American church is too accomodating, too open to nonbelievers, pastors over accomodate american cultre. Apart from the psalters vs hymns this could be any church. So its pretty clear Americanized Chrisianity has a pretty clear uniform set of dogmas.
I understand why it's so easy for Calvinists/Reformed Christians to accept the science of evolution by natural selection and reject a literal Adam and Eve. This is because it doesn't matter what you believe, God has already chosen his elect, salvation is based on God's grace, not on our beliefs about Adam and Eve or science or anything else.
It doesn't have anything to do with that. Calvin would turn in his grave by people accepting evolution. These people have very little in common with him, as do most "reformed" churches, which are in fact not very reformed.
@@TheNabOwnzz You don't know what John Calvin would have believed if he had been presented with the evidence for evolution. He may have even lost his faith entirely as so many others have done.
@@TheNabOwnzz You think the faith of the elect is more important and more of an indication of their salvation than God's grace? I don't. God's grace is all you need, no matter how much the elect sway.
@mehrcat1 How wonderful that you find Joshua's research and videos interesting. I don't recall a time I was an a-theist. However, I had to recognize human religious boxes and denominationalisms separate from the concepts of Diety and Spirit. All the very best to you. Blessings. (PS: I think the Meerkat is a most fascinating creature. ded)
@@aLadNamedNathan I followed PVK for years, trusting that he was genuinely seeking to help people from various unbelieving positions find Christ. However, of late he has been giving a stronger platform for people voicing anti Christian views, attacking the Trinity and pushing pantheism and hermeticism/occultism, while joining them in labeling those who uphold the Christian position as "dogmatists".
@@anselman3156 I quit watching PVK before things got that bad. Thanks for the heads up. The longer I watched Joshua's video about the CRC, the more shocked I became.
@@aLadNamedNathan I actually have a great respect for PVK, but I think the "corner" that has settled around him is too full of anti-Christian voices. I feel sad.
I grew up christian reformed just outside of Holland michigan. I definitely remember the mints lol. Very interesting video. I live in the UP of Michigan now. I would love a video about apostolic lutheran bc there isn't much information about them, but they seem to be all over up here...
I was brought up in South Africa so have had quite a lot of experience of the Dutch Reformed Church.Most Afrikaans speaking South Africans were members of said church.It was very Calvinististic.I understand that it has become much more moderate over the years and maybe John Calvin might not recognise it if somehow he returned to life?
The denomination is in a season of Reformation, but it takes time for that to play out. My guess is, our University will be in a very different place in ten years, compared to what holds sway or is permitted there now….
Calvin University has reprimanded and even fired staff for not toeing the denominational line, and its tenure standards are high. I don't know if policies have changed, but tenured professors had to be active CRC members and send their kids to Christian school. I wouldn't be surprised if their kids had to attend CRC schools.
Neither have been accepted by the denomination. Individual congregations have accepted homosexuality and are at risk of being censured. Calvin University has accepted evolution, but not the denomination.
They've got a lot of good, reasonable stuff in their beliefs about figurative reading of Scripture, science and evolution, and climate change. Had to chuckle, though, when their list of the results of sin included, "pollution, sickness, death, and weeds." I mean, death is hard enough-but, dear Lord, not WEEDS!!!
20:13 on a side note those of you who have no opinion remember all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Fight for traditional values, dont be afraid of offending people as long as you are defending Christendom Christ will reward you, and DONT HELP THE SERPENT WITH YOUR INACTION!!!!!!
He does specify that at the beginning of this section: "Dates given are from the date the Yearbook was published and thus are for the year prior" or words to that effect.
@@surlyogre1476 right. Which is why I wrote that the dates should be shifted back a year instead of blasting a nastygram about how counts for 2024 are impossible. No matter what he _said,_ it's visually misleading.
This denomination has been very busy with internal conflict and writing down all the rules. Despite every effort to be 'correct', the stats show it will be extinct sometime this century, perhaps even by 2050.
They have churches in the Philippines that are evangelical and propagating. People have been saying the same thing abouf the Anglican church since the 90s but they are still here. As a Biblical believer, I know that God's Body the Church on Earth will be here until the end of time in one form or another.
What he says about peppermints is 100% truth. He showed the premium high end Queen Wilhelmina mints. Most congregants use the more common King mints. They are both available at Dutch stores.
Absolute classic
As a Dutch guy going to a Reformed Church in the Netherlands, it's interesting to see the differences and similarities.
And yes of course I had some Peppermint during the sermon. (So normal for me, that I find it funny to hear that it is not normal elsewhere. ;-) )
As a pastor in the CRC, you did a good job covering us. One thing to add. 10:35 Those two Calvin University professors professors were reprimanded for those comments and one of them left Calvin University as a result.
I visited your website before offering this question and it seemed that you do your best to show sides. What’s more important, the unity of a denomination or preaching Gods word from the Bible? Id say there’s too much focus on people in these discussion. We exist to praise and obey him.
@@jacobortega3424 what do you mean by accepting homosexuality? Homosexual sex is sin as the video says.
@@jacobortega3424 we at The Abide Project believe there is no unity when Scripture is being compromised
I grew up in the CRC church before I became Catholic. I have been waiting for this video!! Thanks and I can't wait to watch it
Stop being catholic
I really enjoy your explications of so many denominations. Some are more or less familiar to me, others are entirely unknown. Every time, you present documented, non-judgmental and comprehensible information. You are a fantastic teacher.
My Frisian great grandfather in bellflower was one of the leading voices to use English in the CRC, the Frisians didn't understand Dutch so they agreed to use English.
For a non-Dutch Reformed, I’m strangely excited about this video. I’ve been looking forward to it for so long!
Thanks for this video. As someone who grew up outside of the denomination, but now serves as a Minister of the Word in the CRC, you got a lot right! One issue that is currently being further debated and clarified is that of Gravamen 3:37 . What you detailed, with the ability to take exceptions, was put forward late 2022 by our church order professor. However, Synod 2023 was going to repudiate and overturn that explanation, before some delegates orchestrated a walk out, and postponed the vote until Synod 2024.
For any that want to hear the other side of this issue, look up the “Abide Project” on Substack, and the series “A More Accurate History of Gravamen.”
Left the CRC and Ottawa County Michigan years ago don't miss either.
Thank you, Joshua. My maternal roots are Dutch. I am a Member of a Congregational Way church, as you know, outgrown from the "separatist" church that sojourned in Holland before emigrating to North America. Blessings.
Really enjoyed this video! I was looking for videos to put on for my drive back home from visiting my girlfriend at Calvin university when this popped up in my subscriptions
My college would play Dordt College, (from the Canons of Dordt) twice every year. They were affiliated with the CRC. And in a heavily Dutch area in northwest Iowa.
YEAH! GO DEFENDERS!
I have heard of a not so positive slang name for Dordt.
I know of a happily married couple. The wife grew up in a CRC family considered to be the more conservative church. The parents did not want their daughter to date a man who was a member of an RCA church in the nearby town of Orange City.
Then the young woman dated a Muslim. The conservative family rushed to encourage their daughter to date the RCA member.
The woman married the Muslim and they have been married for many years.
My mom grew up in that area
As a general comment on the Reformed branch, the argument between Zwingli and Luther over the Eucharist is prototypical of the Reformation and kind of legendary.
This is gonna be a niche comment, but my partner is a member of the CRC and im an Anglican, this is gonna be so useful for me to have on hand!!! Thank you!
Partner?
My roommate is CRC. I’m Anglican myself. We are working on our church’s joining in communion
@@aLadNamedNathan Partner in this context may be directly synonymous with significant other - whether they be a fiancé (engaged couple), a person they’re dating (boyfriend or girlfriend), or spouse (husband or wife).
@@leullakew9579 It could be--but unlikely. After homosexuals started using this term, heterosexuals dropped it in favor of husband/wife, fiance/fiancee, boyfriend/girlfriend.
@@aLadNamedNathan I would agree, but it’s really a shame that the LGBT movement now dominate in the use of the term to the extent that it’s now taboo for non-affirming/non-LGBT endorsing heterosexual couples to use. I’d generally go for the term significant other if I would want to be vague about their gender for privacy reasons or when talking about something that can apply to both genders in a romantic relationship (but the term significant other may be too strongly linked to marriage depending on the context or sociolect and may not always work when someone is trying to describe something that is relevant to several stages or romantic relationships (like dating, engagement, and marriage). To be honest though, I’ve rarely every used the term “partner” in this context personally, but I know that it’s used a lot in very technical and dispassionate situations like news reports, police reports, etc. in the same way “deceased” and “domicile” are used when talking about someone’s “death” and “home” respectively.
History of Celtic Christianity please!
I grew up in the CRC and I have seen it change a lot over the last 60 years. But so too have I changed. For as much as I believe in the value of strong doctrine on the person and work of Christ, I am saddened that denominationalism plays such a central role in our Christian experience. The CRC and its splinter churches have fallen victim to cultural influences just as have so many other denominations. For the CRC, the evolution / creation debates and the role of women serving in church office (pastor, elder, etc) has defined the CRC as long as I've been alive. So pervasive has this influence been that Christ has effectively been pushed out of His church. At least when I was a kid, the CRC could be identified as Christ-centered. Yet today, because our Savior has been pushed to the sidelines, you see a much larger focus on things of cultural importance like social justice. Consider Calvin College's tagline, "think deeply, to act justly, and to live wholeheartedly as Christ's agents of renewal in the world". This is a complete shift away from historic Reformed teaching in which God is the primary actor in this world and we serve at His command. My prayer is that God will sharpen our focus and lead us to faithfulness in Christ.
While this may reflect a divide between the US and Canada in the CRC, I've not seen as much of a difference. The CRC is still very much a denomination that takes the word of God seriously. Every CRC I've been to has taught from the view that the Bible is infallible, but not inerrant.
Perhaps you are seeing more on the side of what the church is doing for evangelicism. I agree that the mission work that the CRC does is more focused on social justice, but that is a generally good thing, especially where the word of Christ has been synonymous with hate.
@@hummingcloud9889 it is not a good thing if it strays from the true teachings of Christ. What are you talking about synonymous with hate?
@@doncorleone1553 When the Gospel of Christ is manipulated to "purge" secular society of "non-Christians" (e.g. enabling Holocaust vs. Jews), when the Bible is used to justify torture and murder (e.g. Spanish Inquisition and Crusades), and is used as justification for North American enslavement of African peoples. May Peace be Upon you. Blessings. Don
Nice job. Some of the small issues were picked up in the comments.
People from this church frequently say: "If you're not dutch, you ain't much"
Ya a'int.
I have never heard a grammatically correct version.
Everyone from holland says it
I have only ever heard Americans online say this and that's both because it doesn't make any sense in Dutch and also because it is a profoundly "un-Dutch" statement. Dutch culture is very "don't be too weird, don't big yourself up", and also Dutch people generally aren't very patriotic or nationalist.
@ZTanMURReneRs I've only heard it from CRC people
@@Ayporque that makes sense
United Reformed Church of North America (URCNA) here.
Born and raised in the CRC for 14 years. The church I went to was pretty conservative in theology and views. My parents saw some of the stuff going on in the CRC as a whole and we started attending a non-dom church. Said to see what is happening there.
Please do the Uniting Church in Australia, im sorry if i have commented so many times but i am not as good as finding sources and displaying them as you are
I would also enjoy this. A lot of information there.
You captured how CRC congregations and the denomination as whole have often separated themselves somewhat and wanted to do things their way. A few notable effects of that approach that you didn't mention have been the prevalence of and push for Christian Education and development of groups like the Calvinist Cadet Corps or GEMS as opposed to available external organizations.
You should do the United Reformed Churches in North America (URCNA) next, followed by the Canadian Reformed Churches (CanRC) and Reformed Church in the United States (RCUS).
I’m from the South but have lived in Kalamazoo, MI for around 12-13 years. Our neighbors on both sides are Dutch Reformed (which I’d never previously heard of). The grandfather moved here from the Netherlands. His children and grandchildren are our neighbors. Many of the Dutch Ref people in our area are interesting; they’re very strict and are very bogged down with Calvinism. Specifically, the ones we know have no idea whether they are elect or not, so the best they can do is keep the 10 Commandments and hope they are elect. It’s sad 😢 the DR people we know are wonderful people. Very kind and help us occasionally if we need it, e.g., feed our are pets if we’re out of town. And actually now as a Pastor I have former CRC people in my church (people in their 50-60’s) and they found the staunch legalism (at least in their experience) to be crushing and unbearable. Hopefully it’s not that way for all or most of them.
My grandma always gave us peppermints 😂
Had no idea it was a Dutch thing!
You’ve told the “Grand Rapids” version of the CRCNA story, but something pertinent to the founding and later the survival of the CRC was left out - the TRPDC. The TRPDC was the first secession from what is now called the RCA, secessions which may have started as early as 1815 but definitely got going in the 1820s. Elder Gijsbert Haan spent some time in the east & encountered TRPDC people who filled him in on doctrinal issues with the RCA. His report, when he returned to Michigan, triggered the 2nd, 1857, secession.
The TRPDC saved the 2nd secession group from extinction when it found out that RCA pastors were members of the FreeMasons, anathema to Netherlanders, including one who was the chief chaplain for New York state. This was passed along to the 2nd secession group, which caused another secession - and more importantly redirected the flow of Dutch immigrants away from the RCA and to the 2nd secession group. My ancestors’ congregation, which I believe was Grand Rapids 4th Reformed, was part of this secession and in time became the Beckwith Hills C.R.C.
Like you said, later on the 1st and 2nd secession groups merged, however this was just Classis Hackensack of the 1st secession group, Classis Union stayed out. They withered away, reorganized as the True Church of Christ in the 1920s, disbanded about 1960, and their last surviving congregation, Sharon, NY, closed its doors in 1982 or 84.
Very informative!
can you do a video on the Three-Self Patriotic Movement?
Would you do a video on the amish.
Could you do a video comparing Presbyterians to the Dutch Reformed?
Regarding congregations having women pastors or women in other leadership positions, individual churches do not get to decide: each classis (district or usually geographic group) decides which if any positions are open to women.
Please make a video about the CanRC (Canadian and American Reformed Churches)
Outstanding!
This is a denomination I had never heard of. They must not be very numerous in my area.
It always seems to me that the more rigid a denomination's theology the more prone it is to split over fine points of theology and hair-splitting biblical interpretation - splitting to the point of micro-denominations. It all seems so self-righteous and ego-centered.
I grew up in the Reformed Church of America, the sister branch to this.
It split over ordination of women, whether or not hymns can be sung, and I think music and some other minor things.
It is because of Loyalty to the faithful interpretation of God's Word The Bible. It is a Conservative Protestant trait.
@@philipmangaoang1352 I'd be curious to know where in the Bible Christians are called to be "[loyal] to the faithful interpretation of God's Word The Bible". We are certainly called to defend the faith, but what I think you're talking about here is theology, not faith. These are two different things. "The faith" is clearly defined in Scripture as summarized in 1 John 4. In that chapter, we are told in verse 2 that "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God". This is the heart of the Christian faith. It is the confession that Jesus is God Incarnate, come in the flesh to save us from our sins, that binds us together as one. Everything else falls into the category of theology. And while I am very much a Reformed Christian to my core, I believe that the loyalty that you describe is misplaced, sinful, and dangerous. Does Jesus say in John 10, "My sheep hear my theology and battle against one another to see who can be the most right"? Of course not! Instead, He says, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." (v 27-20)
It is because of the actions of church leaders in Reformed and other denominations that I have become outspoke in the last few years as to the scourge of denominationalism of all types. If anyone professes Jesus as God come to earth from Heaven above then they are my brother or sister in Christ. And even if we disagree around the edges, there is still only "one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph 4:5-6)
The issue with churches like this is that they make everything debatable even clear Scripture is debated as if the Scriptures are unclear.
Exactly, if Christians want to read Genesis at metaphorical and debatable, you might as well read Exodus through Revelations as metaphorical and debatable as well. There are already many Christians reading Matthew 28 as a metaphor, the verse where Jesus is first said to have risen.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy these churches follow "when you stand for nothing, you fall for everything", they just don't know it yet.
Grew up in this church 😁
Please do a UCCP Church Video. Thank you.
thanks for the new video. can you make videos about Eastern Rite Protestants?
Grew up in a small Dutch town in Iowa where everyone is basically CRC. Was great growing up, but all the Church’s basically got rid of their historic buildings and worship for evangelical like replacements. One of the many reasons I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, although I still do love my CRC heritage and family!
All? There is actually a large movement within the denomination to refocus on Covenant Theology again. Many churches learned the hard way that you can't out Eva the local Big Eva churches.
Where I grew up in Ontario, the CRC was known as the Dutch church and all the members seemed to be the children of Dutch immigrants or the immigrants themselves. Most seemed to be tall and blond, but possibly that was a bit of an exaggeration. There was even an area where they had an almost exclusive settlement called the Holland Marsh. This was named after a man with the surname Holland who had fought against the American invaders in the War of 1812, but by coincident Dutch people were settled there starting in the 1930's. One of my friends was a son of the minister in one of the churches in the marsh (as we said) and later I had a friend who became a minister first in the CRC, but later he moved to a separatists group. There are a few and you did not seem to mention them all. Possibly that is not the subject of the video here, but it is interesting that there is more than one alternative for people who are leaving the CRC. Also, one of the reason why some want a Canadian CRC is that the Canadians in this case seem to be more conservative and possibly they are hoping to stem the tide of splinting off, which is possibly more widespread in Canada.
From what I read, it is the most liberal CRC congregations in Canada that are agitating for a separate denomination.
@@jeffp3415correct, on matters of human sexuality (the current point of primary contention), it is the progressive/affirming side of the CRC in Canada that was trying to split away.
Started off good and wow they really drank the progressive Kool aid
Not really, just a really high percentage of the full time staff.
Nope. More congregations have become retrogressive than progressive. He mentioned just a few.
I am very familiar with the peppermint candy being shared in the church, but I have seen KING Pepermunt more often then Wilhelmina Pepermunt. Dutch Wikipedia claims that Wilhelmina is THE brand for 'gereformeerden' and FAAM (never heard of it though...) for the 'Hervormden', but I do not think this is still strictly observed, not even in the very strict Reformed parts of the country.
My Grandfather would bring King Peppermints and zout dropje to church. He would always make his grandkids take the zout dropje first. They were absolutely disgusting.
There still is a very strong CRC presence in the Central Valley of California. Lots of Dutch dairy farmers in the Ripon, Escalon and Oakdale area with thriving churches.
How can the CRC approve the new international version which recently has been compromised and not except a new American standard?
NIV originated in the CRC in the 1950s as a counter to the RSV. I still use the original NIV
A multidenominational group of Biblical scholars double-checked some translations and only changed little parts (changing "brothers" to "brothers and sisters," etc.). I miss little turns of phrase that I learned from the 1984 NIV, but the few changes make sense.
My church only uses the 1984 NIV, not the modern revisions which have the inclusive language.
At 14:00 Not all churches/denominations that believe in a second work of grace are Pentecostal or Charismatic.
who else does?
The Wesleyans, The Methodists and The Church of the Nazarene
They would by definition be Charismatics. That's literally what Charismatic means. Charismatic is the belief that the signs are still given to believers today, it's not a denomination or church.
Dr. Schuller came from this denomination.
If I'm not mistaken, Dr. Schuller was Reformed Church in America. Their building was sold to the Catholics but the Congregation joined the PCUSA when they merged with Irvine Presbyterian Church. Dr Schuller's grandson Bobby and the now Shepherd's Grove Presbyterian Church are now affiliated with the PCUSA. Hour of Power can still be seen around the world on-line and on TV.
@@philipmangaoang1352 Thanks for that information! I was always an admirer of
Dr. Schuller and his spiritual journey. So sad how it all turned out.
The ironic thing is the old Crystal Cathedral looks more reformed now with the white wash of paint that the Roman Catholics put in the interior.
@@Modeltnick same here, his books motivated me during a difficult time in my life. Possibility thinking was different from just Positive thinking.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 They ruined the place.
I didnt know much about the CRC, but i thought they were more conservative than they actually are.
They are more conservative than the online materials indicate. Do you recall Joshua mentioning Classis Grand Rapids East? That is the most liberal of the Classis in the denomination and home to most of the office staff of the Denomination.
They are. That's the reason last year's synod went all the way to claiming as a confessional standard that anyone who has ever had sex outside a single male-female marriage can't even be married in the church. A small handful of congregations have more lenient stances toward LGBTQ+ matters, but some classes (districts of several churches) even refuse to acknowledge female representatives sent to the annual Synod.
I don’t live far from a CRC.
They seem pretty progressive.
Baere on where I live..
Hardly.
Compared to the other reformed churches around Holland they really are. But holland has become very progressive in the last 10 years
@@jacobortega3424 Especially the REAL Holland
@@jacobortega3424 they're more conservative than the branch I was raised in
@@doncorleone1553 the real holland?
A traditional reformed church deviating further away then Christian cults😢😢😢😢
Well, sucks that they are liberal when it comes to Biblical interpretation, and lifestyle. Ill pass on that.
1:25 its fascinating how generic these complaints are. American church is too accomodating, too open to nonbelievers, pastors over accomodate american cultre. Apart from the psalters vs hymns this could be any church.
So its pretty clear Americanized Chrisianity has a pretty clear uniform set of dogmas.
The decline of the CRC does not surprise me, I myself attend a non-denom church these days
If yer not Dutch, yer not mutch.
I understand why it's so easy for Calvinists/Reformed Christians to accept the science of evolution by natural selection and reject a literal Adam and Eve. This is because it doesn't matter what you believe, God has already chosen his elect, salvation is based on God's grace, not on our beliefs about Adam and Eve or science or anything else.
It doesn't have anything to do with that. Calvin would turn in his grave by people accepting evolution. These people have very little in common with him, as do most "reformed" churches, which are in fact not very reformed.
@@TheNabOwnzz You don't know what John Calvin would have believed if he had been presented with the evidence for evolution. He may have even lost his faith entirely as so many others have done.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy No, because the faith of the elect is never swayed, and particularly not by these fantastical modern notions.
@@TheNabOwnzz You think the faith of the elect is more important and more of an indication of their salvation than God's grace? I don't. God's grace is all you need, no matter how much the elect sway.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy election is a direct result of God's grace!
I'm a rabid atheist and thoroughly enjoy these highly informative videos. Keep up the good work!
You're going to die soon? (I'm content being a plain atheist.)
You should probably get a rabies vaccine while you still can. Go to the hospital.
I know you might not like this comment, but I hope you do find god. Anyway glad to see you here.
@mehrcat1 How wonderful that you find Joshua's research and videos interesting. I don't recall a time I was an a-theist. However, I had to recognize human religious boxes and denominationalisms separate from the concepts of Diety and Spirit. All the very best to you. Blessings. (PS: I think the Meerkat is a most fascinating creature. ded)
@@squiddwizzard8850 too late. He dead.
Hope Paul Vanderklay see this one!
I used to watch Paul Vanderklay, but I eventually realized he was too liberal for me.
@@aLadNamedNathan I followed PVK for years, trusting that he was genuinely seeking to help people from various unbelieving positions find Christ. However, of late he has been giving a stronger platform for people voicing anti Christian views, attacking the Trinity and pushing pantheism and hermeticism/occultism, while joining them in labeling those who uphold the Christian position as "dogmatists".
@@anselman3156 I quit watching PVK before things got that bad. Thanks for the heads up.
The longer I watched Joshua's video about the CRC, the more shocked I became.
@@aLadNamedNathan I actually have a great respect for PVK, but I think the "corner" that has settled around him is too full of anti-Christian voices. I feel sad.
@@anselman3156 I see your point, but I'm sad that PVK doesn't push back on attacks against the faith. That's what a Chrisitan is supposed to do.
I grew up christian reformed just outside of Holland michigan. I definitely remember the mints lol. Very interesting video. I live in the UP of Michigan now. I would love a video about apostolic lutheran bc there isn't much information about them, but they seem to be all over up here...
I was brought up in South Africa so have had quite a lot of experience of the Dutch Reformed Church.Most Afrikaans speaking South Africans were members of said church.It was very Calvinististic.I understand that it has become much more moderate over the years and maybe John Calvin might not recognise it if somehow he returned to life?
You deserve credit for an exceptionally accurate review.
Thank you, Joshua 🌹⭐🌹
Obviously this church doesn't have the authority or, let's face it, balls, to enforce moral standards at their university. Sad.
The denomination is in a season of Reformation, but it takes time for that to play out. My guess is, our University will be in a very different place in ten years, compared to what holds sway or is permitted there now….
Calvin University has reprimanded and even fired staff for not toeing the denominational line, and its tenure standards are high. I don't know if policies have changed, but tenured professors had to be active CRC members and send their kids to Christian school. I wouldn't be surprised if their kids had to attend CRC schools.
Christian Reformed Churches of Australia used the CRCNA Psalter Hymnal for many years.
My grandma handed out mints to keep us quite during the very boring hell fire and brimstone sermons. Thanks for the update on this denomination
7:32 You should have mentioned here that the NIV was first proposed by CRC members, and was kinda leading the NIV as a whole
How ironic that hymns were once considered too modern.
That would explain why there’s always a basket of peppermints outside the sanctuary. I never really noticed it till now. Lol
The recent acceptance of homosexuality and evolution shows how greatly people can fall away from Gods clear word.
Neither have been accepted by the denomination. Individual congregations have accepted homosexuality and are at risk of being censured. Calvin University has accepted evolution, but not the denomination.
They've got a lot of good, reasonable stuff in their beliefs about figurative reading of Scripture, science and evolution, and climate change. Had to chuckle, though, when their list of the results of sin included, "pollution, sickness, death, and weeds." I mean, death is hard enough-but, dear Lord, not WEEDS!!!
That's right out of Genesis
@@jeffp3415 It's the anti-climax of the order....
Their logo also indicates that they're big 30 seconds to mars fans lol
...or, perhaps the _30 Seconds to Mars_ producers are fans of the CRC?
( I think the CRC logo came first 😉)
20:13 on a side note those of you who have no opinion remember all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Fight for traditional values, dont be afraid of offending people as long as you are defending Christendom Christ will reward you, and DONT HELP THE SERPENT WITH YOUR INACTION!!!!!!
My father-in-law grew up in Michigan as Dutch Reformed. He said it was so strict.
Kingdom of heaven isy within - at least one must realize this.
29:03 The dates should be shifted back by a year.
He does specify that at the beginning of this section: "Dates given are from the date the Yearbook was published and thus are for the year prior" or words to that effect.
@@surlyogre1476 right. Which is why I wrote that the dates should be shifted back a year instead of blasting a nastygram about how counts for 2024 are impossible.
No matter what he _said,_ it's visually misleading.
That is normal. If you report statistics in 2024, the data is obviously from an earlier date.
@@stephanottawa7890 normal or not, it's still misleading.
This denomination has been very busy with internal conflict and writing down all the rules. Despite every effort to be 'correct', the stats show it will be extinct sometime this century, perhaps even by 2050.
They have churches in the Philippines that are evangelical and propagating. People have been saying the same thing abouf the Anglican church since the 90s but they are still here. As a Biblical believer, I know that God's Body the Church on Earth will be here until the end of time in one form or another.
Virtually all of the member losses have been to the more conservative offshoots of the CRC, where the doctrine is even more important.