Mulholland Drive is a movie about Hollywood; it's a _movie_ about _movies_ - it's expected that there would be references to other films. The word 'steal' has clearly become trivialized in this day and age.
I'm not a big Lynch fan --- I saw the movie in the theater when it came out, and then on DVD when it first came out on DVD. So I rewatched it after 22 years and noticed the connection. So you noticed the ripoff too? BTW, is that a Captain Kirk outfit you're wearing?
What is the line that distinguishes an homage from a rip-off? I don't remember anyone but myself decrying Brian DePalma's climactic shoot-out in THE UNTOUCHABLES as the blatant rip-off of the Odessa steps sequence from POTEMKIN that it brazenly is.
So you are saying that if you aren't a professional filmmaker, then all you can do is judge any filmmaker's work as being great --- something you apparently have done. But if you aren't a professional filmmaker, how do you then have the ability to judge a film as being good? Explain that to me. Do you feel the same way about music or art? If you aren't a professional musician then you can't criticize music --- you can only like it and assume it's good? I just don't get it. This is getting downright silly. Seriously. These people make these movies FOR US --- for the movie-going public. I shouldn't have to explain that we therefore have a right to analyze the films and come to our individual conclusions about what we liked and didn't like about them. An entire film criticism industry exists for this reason, and rating sites like Rotten Tomatoes aggregate reviews by both professional critics and moviegoers. Do you believe they shouldn't be able to make these judgments? And, by the way, prior to this video I made another video about "Mulholland Drive," and said that I loved the film, and it was my favorite Lynch film of the ones I've seen. It's okay to be a critical thinker and objectively look at a work of art and say what you do and don't like about it. But watch out for that Lynch cult, man. Wow.
I don’t like critics period unless they themselves make something. How can a critic be an expert at filmmaking if they haven’t made anything themselves? If you seen David Lynch videos you would know that all his inspiration comes from dreams and ideas. Not because he’s ripping someone off. I’ll admit my comment is pretty cunty. But that’s because I hate critics that don’t make shit. So yeah I do think you need to be involved in the job to criticize it. And I’m proud to be a part of the Lynch cult. Very proud.
@@kevinkeaton5697 If you're saying that you can't criticize a work unless you're also a creator in that same artform --- because you lack the judgment to know whether or not the work is bad, THEN THE SAME MUST NECESSARILY APPLY TO JUDGING WHETHER THE WORK IS GOOD. I didn't claim to be an expert in filmmaking --- I observed that ONE SCENE in the film was lifted from another film. I didn't say Mulholland Drive was a horrible film for this reason, or that I disliked the film. I didn't say Lynch was a horrible director. Did I? So much for critical thinking. And I actually write fiction, and understand something about constructing a story. And the basic principles of storytelling apply in fiction, stage, and film.
@@issues9828Yeah you’re right I’m being a dumbass hypocrite here. You didn’t claim to be an expert either. I rewatched the video. My apologies. It’s a peaceful observation that challenges my cult brain for Lynch. Critical thinking isn’t something I’m good at. Lesson learned.
@ I appreciate it. In the last 20 seconds of the video I even state that I'm making this comment because I like debate and argument, and this is how we all learn. So I was hoping and expecting people to discuss the actual components of the scene, and debate why and how it was or wasn't a direct lift from Bergman. I wanted to learn from people. But nobody in these comments will engage at that level. They mostly say I'm stupid because it's so obvious he lifted from Bergman, BUT THAT'S OKAY WITH THEM, EVERYONE STEALS. So there is no understanding of the difference between absorbing abstract elements of another work, versus using it in a purely derivative way that many may find dissatisfying. All artists take ideas from someone else and internalize them and really make it their own, and then re-express it as part of a larger whole in a very original way. That's what produces rich, great art. But when you lift something so specific and it's obvious to everyone, many people consider that to reflect lack of creativity and originality. This whole Lynch cult I'm seeing really reminds me of how people view Bob Dylan and David Foster Wallace. It's a cult, and if you find anything to criticize in their work, and don't just accept that they are geniuses that can't be challenged or criticized, then you're attacked.
I would see that Lynch was much more inspired by Kieslowski's 'Double life of Weronika' regarding 'Mullholand Dr'. And he was very familiar with Polish films as he visited Poland many times. Lots of similar concepts you can see if you compare 'Lost Highway' with earlier film by Wojciech Has 'Memoirs of a Sinner'. Just my opinion but I watched all films of all mentioned directors, so at least I can see it.. Best Regards
I don't know whether you read the video title or watched the video, but I am specifically talking about one scene in one film --- I am not talking about Lynch's general body of work, or who generally inspired him.
We could also say he's ripping off hitchcocks vertigo and probably alot other films... that's cinema. You just hope they take ingredients from previous work and use it to tell the story they Want to tell in an expressive and artistic way.
@issues9828 that's not what I ment, themes like identity the brunette and blonde change, the scene with the almost Carey Grant /Jimmy Stewart type of older actor in the audition, there's probably more I plan on watching his work again soon. Iv no doubt it is heavily influenced by persona which is itself a great film, but I don't think he's trying to pull one over on us by ripping bergman off lynch wears his influences on his sleeve the doppelganger thing runs through his work in say twin peaks maddy ferguson/Laura palma, peeping Tom - lost highway, I'm sure sunset boulevard turns up here or there in his work... Of course sometimes he wears it to on his sleeve at times a bit to much like the wizard of Oz.. Which pops up in most weird and random times.
To insinuate that the most prolific original director of the last 50 years" stole" from anyone is just complete rubbish, and quite frankly if you think that,I would have to question your ability to appreciate what David lynch was all about,as well as your ability to understand the film medium in the first place.
This is great --- so I'm beginning to see that, just like the Bob Dylan and David Foster Wallace cult, there is also a David Lynch cult. So let me make sure I correctly understand what you're saying --- you're saying that if someone produced a high volume of work in their chosen artform, then they are beyond criticism, and we must assume that the work was all completely original. Is that right?
Get a life bro, great artists borrow from great artists, how can you make a movie about 2 women merging and not reflect on persona, to make that a negative speaks more about you I think
Great artists abstract individual elements from other artist's work, internalize those elements, and then use them in their more abstract form as part of a larger, cohesive work that is unified by their own personal vision. They don't LITERALLY lift them in their existing form and reproduce them in their own work. There is a difference between being INFLUENCED by another artist, and literally lifting a scene in such an obvious, literal, way that other people can see it immediately. He could have made a movie about two women merging without literally lifting a scene from the first film. This is so literally taken that it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for him.
@issues9828 why don't you waste your time showing how the scenes are frame by frame the same and we can spend our time mocking you some more, you're talking absolute nonsense, there is zero frame by frame rip offs, unless you think 2 women in a shot must be a rip off, go to bed your brain needs a rest
@@davidb9531 So are you saying you didn't notice that it was literally taken from "Persona" until I pointed it out? Or, did you notice it immediately when you saw it. My point is that no viewer of the film should have noticed immediately that the scene was literally lifted from "Persona." The fact that I did --- to me --- is a major failure of original vision and expression on the filmmaker's part. It shouldn't even be similar enough to recognize this. Lynch should have abstracted the idea of merging of identities as symbolic unconscious language/dream logic, and he should have taken that abstract idea and re-expressed it in his own original way --- if he had his own original vision he would have had no desire or instinct to just recreate a scene from Bergman's film. I have only seen 3 of Lynch's films, and seeing this film again after all these years I'm unimpressed, quite honestly. I'm now curious and want to watch more of his films and see how derivative those too may be.
@@issues9828 no I never noticed that 2 films about 2 women's merging identities might in someway have ideas that coincide within a visual art form (that's sarcasm just incase you don't understand that), you are literally the only person on earth Intelligent enough to see that. When, may I ask did you start your career in filmmaking in that put you so high on your artistic pedestal to give critique and tips to a man that is in fact dead, and some people think speaking I'll of the dead disrespectful. Having said that I realise your ego and intellect is that of a small planet, put yourself to bed please, before your next sneeze removes your last brain cell
nothing new...the whole movie is a tribute to Bergman's movie...the persona was not a simple masterpiece..it was not a simple film...it showed the limits of cinema...Lynch knew this very well
I'm not following --- in what way is it a TRIBUTE to "Persona"? It sure borrows from, and, in the case of this scene, blatantly STEALS from the film. But how is it a TRIBUTE to "Persona"?
No steal, no art...
Mulholland Drive is a movie about Hollywood; it's a _movie_ about _movies_ - it's expected that there would be references to other films.
The word 'steal' has clearly become trivialized in this day and age.
Thank you for the totally insufferable video. You are surely the only person who has ever made this connection! Bravo!
I'm not a big Lynch fan --- I saw the movie in the theater when it came out, and then on DVD when it first came out on DVD. So I rewatched it after 22 years and noticed the connection. So you noticed the ripoff too? BTW, is that a Captain Kirk outfit you're wearing?
we're making history here!
@@JeremyHelm You mean by chatting with Captain Kirk?
😂
That’s art. It’s love and respect. It seems many directors have taken inspiration from that movie, i.e. the entire movie The Lighthouse.
But didn't Tina Turner ask, "What's love sgot to do, sgot to do with it?"
Well, duh.
What is the line that distinguishes an homage from a rip-off? I don't remember anyone but myself decrying Brian DePalma's climactic shoot-out in THE UNTOUCHABLES as the blatant rip-off of the Odessa steps sequence from POTEMKIN that it brazenly is.
I like David Lynch. I don’t like you. Make something better if you can. Oh that’s right, you can’t.
So you are saying that if you aren't a professional filmmaker, then all you can do is judge any filmmaker's work as being great --- something you apparently have done. But if you aren't a professional filmmaker, how do you then have the ability to judge a film as being good? Explain that to me.
Do you feel the same way about music or art? If you aren't a professional musician then you can't criticize music --- you can only like it and assume it's good? I just don't get it.
This is getting downright silly. Seriously. These people make these movies FOR US --- for the movie-going public. I shouldn't have to explain that we therefore have a right to analyze the films and come to our individual conclusions about what we liked and didn't like about them. An entire film criticism industry exists for this reason, and rating sites like Rotten Tomatoes aggregate reviews by both professional critics and moviegoers. Do you believe they shouldn't be able to make these judgments?
And, by the way, prior to this video I made another video about "Mulholland Drive," and said that I loved the film, and it was my favorite Lynch film of the ones I've seen. It's okay to be a critical thinker and objectively look at a work of art and say what you do and don't like about it. But watch out for that Lynch cult, man. Wow.
I don’t like critics period unless they themselves make something. How can a critic be an expert at filmmaking if they haven’t made anything themselves? If you seen David Lynch videos you would know that all his inspiration comes from dreams and ideas. Not because he’s ripping someone off. I’ll admit my comment is pretty cunty. But that’s because I hate critics that don’t make shit. So yeah I do think you need to be involved in the job to criticize it. And I’m proud to be a part of the Lynch cult. Very proud.
@@kevinkeaton5697 If you're saying that you can't criticize a work unless you're also a creator in that same artform --- because you lack the judgment to know whether or not the work is bad, THEN THE SAME MUST NECESSARILY APPLY TO JUDGING WHETHER THE WORK IS GOOD. I didn't claim to be an expert in filmmaking --- I observed that ONE SCENE in the film was lifted from another film. I didn't say Mulholland Drive was a horrible film for this reason, or that I disliked the film. I didn't say Lynch was a horrible director. Did I? So much for critical thinking. And I actually write fiction, and understand something about constructing a story. And the basic principles of storytelling apply in fiction, stage, and film.
@@issues9828Yeah you’re right I’m being a dumbass hypocrite here. You didn’t claim to be an expert either. I rewatched the video. My apologies. It’s a peaceful observation that challenges my cult brain for Lynch. Critical thinking isn’t something I’m good at. Lesson learned.
@ I appreciate it. In the last 20 seconds of the video I even state that I'm making this comment because I like debate and argument, and this is how we all learn. So I was hoping and expecting people to discuss the actual components of the scene, and debate why and how it was or wasn't a direct lift from Bergman. I wanted to learn from people. But nobody in these comments will engage at that level. They mostly say I'm stupid because it's so obvious he lifted from Bergman, BUT THAT'S OKAY WITH THEM, EVERYONE STEALS. So there is no understanding of the difference between absorbing abstract elements of another work, versus using it in a purely derivative way that many may find dissatisfying. All artists take ideas from someone else and internalize them and really make it their own, and then re-express it as part of a larger whole in a very original way. That's what produces rich, great art. But when you lift something so specific and it's obvious to everyone, many people consider that to reflect lack of creativity and originality. This whole Lynch cult I'm seeing really reminds me of how people view Bob Dylan and David Foster Wallace. It's a cult, and if you find anything to criticize in their work, and don't just accept that they are geniuses that can't be challenged or criticized, then you're attacked.
I would see that Lynch was much more inspired by Kieslowski's 'Double life of Weronika' regarding 'Mullholand Dr'. And he was very familiar with Polish films as he visited Poland many times.
Lots of similar concepts you can see if you compare 'Lost Highway' with earlier film by Wojciech Has 'Memoirs of a Sinner'.
Just my opinion but I watched all films of all mentioned directors, so at least I can see it.. Best Regards
I don't know whether you read the video title or watched the video, but I am specifically talking about one scene in one film --- I am not talking about Lynch's general body of work, or who generally inspired him.
I am a huge huge fan of Lynch but I must admit I have always thought this
You mean that you feel he lifted it in such a way that it feels wholly derivative, and not at all original?
We could also say he's ripping off hitchcocks vertigo and probably alot other films... that's cinema.
You just hope they take ingredients from previous work and use it to tell the story they Want to tell in an expressive and artistic way.
Which scene in Vertigo does this scene resemble?
@issues9828 that's not what I ment, themes like identity the brunette and blonde change, the scene with the almost Carey Grant /Jimmy Stewart type of older actor in the audition, there's probably more I plan on watching his work again soon.
Iv no doubt it is heavily influenced by persona which is itself a great film, but I don't think he's trying to pull one over on us by ripping bergman off lynch wears his influences on his sleeve the doppelganger thing runs through his work in say twin peaks maddy ferguson/Laura palma, peeping Tom - lost highway, I'm sure sunset boulevard turns up here or there in his work... Of course sometimes he wears it to on his sleeve at times a bit to much like the wizard of Oz.. Which pops up in most weird and random times.
@issues9828 iv seen it argued it's more of a ripoff of 3 woman but i cant say on that as I haven't seen it.
You say ripoff, I say tribute
What specifically suggests it's a tribute?
To insinuate that the most prolific original director of the last 50 years" stole" from anyone is just complete rubbish, and quite frankly if you think that,I would have to question your ability to appreciate what David lynch was all about,as well as your ability to understand the film medium in the first place.
This is great --- so I'm beginning to see that, just like the Bob Dylan and David Foster Wallace cult, there is also a David Lynch cult.
So let me make sure I correctly understand what you're saying --- you're saying that if someone produced a high volume of work in their chosen artform, then they are beyond criticism, and we must assume that the work was all completely original. Is that right?
Get a life bro, great artists borrow from great artists, how can you make a movie about 2 women merging and not reflect on persona, to make that a negative speaks more about you I think
Great artists abstract individual elements from other artist's work, internalize those elements, and then use them in their more abstract form as part of a larger, cohesive work that is unified by their own personal vision. They don't LITERALLY lift them in their existing form and reproduce them in their own work. There is a difference between being INFLUENCED by another artist, and literally lifting a scene in such an obvious, literal, way that other people can see it immediately. He could have made a movie about two women merging without literally lifting a scene from the first film. This is so literally taken that it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for him.
@issues9828 why don't you waste your time showing how the scenes are frame by frame the same and we can spend our time mocking you some more, you're talking absolute nonsense, there is zero frame by frame rip offs, unless you think 2 women in a shot must be a rip off, go to bed your brain needs a rest
@@davidb9531 So are you saying you didn't notice that it was literally taken from "Persona" until I pointed it out? Or, did you notice it immediately when you saw it.
My point is that no viewer of the film should have noticed immediately that the scene was literally lifted from "Persona." The fact that I did --- to me --- is a major failure of original vision and expression on the filmmaker's part. It shouldn't even be similar enough to recognize this.
Lynch should have abstracted the idea of merging of identities as symbolic unconscious language/dream logic, and he should have taken that abstract idea and re-expressed it in his own original way --- if he had his own original vision he would have had no desire or instinct to just recreate a scene from Bergman's film.
I have only seen 3 of Lynch's films, and seeing this film again after all these years I'm unimpressed, quite honestly. I'm now curious and want to watch more of his films and see how derivative those too may be.
@@issues9828 no I never noticed that 2 films about 2 women's merging identities might in someway have ideas that coincide within a visual art form (that's sarcasm just incase you don't understand that), you are literally the only person on earth Intelligent enough to see that. When, may I ask did you start your career in filmmaking in that put you so high on your artistic pedestal to give critique and tips to a man that is in fact dead, and some people think speaking I'll of the dead disrespectful. Having said that I realise your ego and intellect is that of a small planet, put yourself to bed please, before your next sneeze removes your last brain cell
nothing new...the whole movie is a tribute to Bergman's movie...the persona was not a simple masterpiece..it was not a simple film...it showed the limits of cinema...Lynch knew this very well
I'm not following --- in what way is it a TRIBUTE to "Persona"? It sure borrows from, and, in the case of this scene, blatantly STEALS from the film. But how is it a TRIBUTE to "Persona"?
Lol