My A-6 squadron was involved in an identical incident in 1993 aboard CVN-71. Nobody died and both jets were able to fly again. The Hornet needed a one way to depot post-deployment but they were able to repair the A-6 with a new horizontal stab and vertical taken from an old KA-6D. The Hornet barely survived since it fodded both engines. One engine immediately failed but the other motor held on long enough to for him to eventually trap back aboard after they cleared the LA of debris.
This was my old squadron VS-22. I had just transferred from The Checkmates to RAG Instructor duty before this accident. Luckily, there were no back seaters in that sortie. The pilot was the CO and the right seat was an NFO. The Skipper ended up in the water and the NFO ended up swinging from the main mast over the island - hence his new callsign becoming "Swinger".
@9:55 “ Aviation itself is not inherently dangerous, but, to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.” - A.G. ‘Lamps’ Lamplugh
KSparks80 is spot on. This was on now ex-Enterprise. Pilot was "Walleye" Wallace, slightly my junior, fellow retired O-6, then-XO of VS-22. I was on the JTF-SWA staff in '99 and Walleye came ashore to the CAOC for a couple weeks as we rotated XOs fm the air wing during OSW. For all us 13XXs at the CAOC, hearing the story 1st person from Walleye raised the hair on the back of our necks. V/r, Byrdman
So hard to watch, such a tragedy, just shows us all that things can happen, my upmost respect to Naval pilots that land on carriers, Thank you all for your insight into this.
I was the trouble shooter talking with the pilot of the S3 the XO at the time took over as CO shortly after, via hand signals, I was the first with a fire hose on the left side, I can still see the whole thing like a cartoon in slow motion and feel the heat of the fire and hear the engines running as we kept trying to extinguish it. Once the fire was out we had to open the hatch and shut the engines down. We ended up removing what parts we could salvage and pushed it overboard.
I was in VAQ-130 when this took place. I saw it happen from our maintenance control and the feed was cut immediately. It was about 3 days into deployment and we were still conducting carrier quals off Virginia.
Was going to chime in. We had a brief module on AV equipment aboard carriers in IC-A school and I know many of my classmates went that direction. Fortunately for me, I volunteered for the Submarine Force.
Great conversation, the second half was fascinating especially Wombats input, night operations on a carrier sound unbelievably dangerous. I was also shocked when I realized that was in 98 (yesterday for some of us lol) initially I though that was a video from Vietnam (the old days). Accidents like this always have the same routes, if you read about oil rig accidents they've also similar. You start off with a few small problems and then things compound on top of them and it can go on for a few years until one day something catastrophic happens which killed 80 people. Tragic loss and it just shows that people who operate such equipment whether it be military or our industries should be highly motivated and not treated like crap and yes money and treatment is part of that.
I was on that deployment (my very first) First and only time I was in a real general quarters. 😮 I worked in the AIMD CASS shop inside the ship (retired Aviation Electronics Tech AT). Some of my buddies were in the smoking area when it happened and came running back when they called general quarters and said there was a huge fireball on the flight deck. We did a lot of reclaim work on the electronics of the aircraft affected. It was more than just the S-3 and EA-6B involved there were some F/A-18s involved too. Think we stayed in the area doing search and rescue and then trying to recover the bodies for 4 days. They only recovered one body from the EA-6B the rest were never found. S-3 pilots ejected and were recovered. One landed on the island.
I was assigned to flight deck battle dress station for this. The two S3 pilots survived. 3 of 4 of ea6b pilots were lost at sea, the one recovered didnt survive either. It was a chaotic night.
As a Shooter, one of us was always required to work the gear just across from the LSO platform just aft of the Shelf. We had to confirm each of the 4 gear engines was set to the proper weight by visual ID of the aircraft in the groove...that was the only time we ever looked backwards. We also had a pickle switch that switched between foul deck and clear deck when the trigger was pulled. It defaulted to foul unless actively depressed. Any personnel crossing the LA during recovery needed the Shooters permission to cross, although we had scores of people not paying attention and running across anyway. Equipment, gear adrift, A/C in the LA...whatever crossed the foul line would cause us to release the pickle creating a foul deck. This was hard to watch...
This one was gut wrenching to watch ,knowing something could have been done to prevent that tragedy.I love learning about Military Aircraft and sadly what comes with the successes in landing on Carriers are the deadly failures! I have learned the deck of an Aircraft Carrier is one of the most dangerous places/jobs in the world... never take your eyes off what you are doing!! This tragedy could have been prevented, perhaps,so the aftermath of this must have been new training, many discussions, meetings, change of policies, too late to save those in the EA-6B .... I wish I knew more about this situation but could a tug have pulled that S3 off to the side of the flight deck. So dangerous at night... the EA-6B had already called the ball but those working on the S3 were not aware . I have so many questions...Why didn't someone in the tower see this and call them off, they had to be aware of the S3 being worked on,on the flight deck ... The flight deck should be kept clear at all times ... they must have different radio frequencies for communication with the Pilot who is landing? All of the above comments are questions...of why? and just seeing a video and not knowing all the circumstances one can only think certain things could have been done but again it depends on the circumstances taking place at the time...and certainly I am not in a place to judge but watch and learn. This is a gut wrenching hard lesson to learn. Sad for those who lost their lives!! 😥 0:03
I suggest the f18 into barricade at night vid. He loses engine gets low enough to see reflection on water plus you see the jetisson splash. And it has a single engine afterburner go-around over the barricade! I found on a random "you wont believe this" channel that shows random stuff
4 in the Prowler were killed. 2 in the Viking survived. All 6 had ejected. The 4 in the Prowler were thought to have hit the rear fuselage during ejection as it had folded over the top during the impact. 1 body was recovered, and 3 were lost at sea. In the Viking, one was pulled from the water by helo. The other was found unconscious swinging by his chute from an antenna on the island. Both were treated for cuts and burns. The "air boss" and 2 LSO's were reprimanded and stripped of qualifications to land aircraft.
I was stationed aboard Big E when this horrific event happened. The entire ship shuddered even down to the engineering spaces and a lot of black smoke was sucked in to the ships ventilation causing lots of alarm and confusion. We lost good pilots that night.. God rest their souls.
I was a LSO and S2E driver in the 1960’s(NAM) For me to try and fathom why both the LSO’s ( there had to be at least 2 or more on the platform) and the AIR BOSS did not see a foul deck and someone initiate a wave off… very rare screwup and tragic.
Here's my two cents worth. A couple of things. The PLAT screen at the LSO platform was not working. The phone and pickle cords were not long enough to let the LSO's move out to look down the deck. (Now they have dedicated guys that do that). In another PLAT view you can hear the airboss call 'Wave off', but way too late.@@jerryetheredge4109
Great discussion, but at least one of you guys should have done a bit more research. Both S-3 crew successfully ejected and survived; one ended up in the water, the other ended up hanging from his chute from the antenna array on the Enterprise's island. All four of the EA-6 crew ejected as the aircraft was breaking up: one was found (dead); the other three were never found and declared lost at sea. The final report stated the Viking was being held in the LA by the flight deck chief until space was made for it to taxi off. There were nine (!) officers on the LSO platform at the time, but visibility from the LSO platform to the LA was partially blocked by a parked F-18. (The LSO platform on the newer Nimitz class was designed to avoid this issue.) The LSOs knew the deck was fouled, but didn't know the Viking was still in the LA, so they merely told the Prowler to go "hook up" (touch-and-go). The Air Boss knew that the Viking was still in the LA, but assumed the LSO knew it as well and would wave off the Prowler, so he said nothing until the Prowler was at the ramp -- way too late. You can see in the video at 1:58 (just as the camera moves, unfortunately) that the Prowler's nose started rising, and was still rising when it hit the Viking, so the pilot was trying to go around as directed. Two LSOs and the Air Boss were reprimanded and removed from their posts; all three lost their carrier qualifications. No blame was assigned to any of the aircrew. If you want more details that I left out, read about it here: members.toast.net/dawog/vaq132/e19990322prowler_accident.htm
Thi is very similar to an event on the Kittyhawk in September of 81 with an a-7 flying through the tail of an f14 sitting behind cat 4 getting ready for launch.. the a-7 was doing practice approach at night. And was in Wave off . Ended up killing one sailor on the Deck working after flight deck trouble shooter . The tomcat went to full power to get out of the way . Then ejected after impact. The canopy landed in the jet wash and went sliding across the deck cutting an AE- 1 almost in half agenst a tie down chains
This is a classic example of why good "safety cultures" include the ability for literally anyone in the operation to call a halt. On a gun-range, I always made sure that everyone on that range knew that they could immediately call a "cease-fire" if they saw or even perceived an unsafe condition. Everyone also knew what the "cease-fire" call REQUIRED them to do: immediately holster sidearms and safe and bring to low-ready all long-guns. Then show hands empty for everyone to see. Once the range was surveyed and declared SAFE by the range officer, the reason for the cease-fire was investigated. If it was a misunderstanding, then "no harm, no foul". If it was a legitimate safety issue then it was dealt-with per policy and procedure. No-one was reprimanded or ostracized for calling a cease-fire, even if it was a misunderstanding. Far better to lose some trigger-time while locking down the reason for the CF than making people reluctant to call a CF for fear of being thought badly of...................
My father flew TBMs modified for ASW reconnaissance during the 50s and early 60s. Most flights took off from Willow Grove, PA but he had to be requalified on a regular basis for carrier landings. His preference was obviously for following the "meatball" on the first optical landing system deployed in the mid-50s. Dad swore he always stuck the landing, but some of his claims about carrier activities became more grandiose over time. He did serve with distinction for 14 years, most of it with the Naval Air Reserve, searching for Soviet subs in the Western North Atlantic Ocean region just off the Continental Shelf.
NGL, not a pilot but I always tense up watching carrier landings. I guess in that sense the F-35B landings seem to be safer since they are coming in slow and from the side. But I also heard that the systems on the F-35C also have made trap landings easier too.
Yup, two LSOs and the Air Boss were sacked and lost their CQ. More details on the entire incident here: members.toast.net/dawog/vaq132/e19990322prowler_accident.htm
@@hammerslamper4125 AIMD CASS shop inside the ship when it happened (retired AT). People were in the smoking area when it happened and they called general quarters. They came back wide eyed and said there was this huge fireball.
@@hammerslamper4125 AIMD CASS shop inside the ship (retired AT). Some of my buddies were in the smoking area when it happened and came running back when they called general quarters and said there was a huge fireball on the flight deck. We did a lot of reclaim work on the electronics of the aircraft affected. It was just more than the S-3 and EA-6B there were some F-18s involved too.
Doesn't the LSO get some visual indication of a fouled deck Wombat ? I mean ... it's on the PLAT, somebody's telling the system to record a fouled deck One or 2 of the red wave-off lights on the ball could be used to indicate a fouled deck ...
He was in my A-6 squadron in the early 90's. He died in a plane crash along with his BN doing FCLP's at NAS Alameda, CA in the spring of 1994. They ejected into the water while trying to ride the plane around the break more because sail boats were at the end of the runway having a race. They always raced at the end of the runway.
@SplashJohn is correct many more details are available re the LSO's blocked view, the reason the S3 was held in place, the expectations that "someone else" would call the wave off, etc. @WardCarroll also just published great video with Capt.(Ret) Kevin "Hoser" Miller (who was on this deployment) and Greg "Walleye" Wallace who was the pilot of the S3 Viking. When Wallace recalls he knew something was wrong "when the director started running..." it sent a chill up my spine ua-cam.com/video/yYTm_u5zjAA/v-deo.html
Unfortunate there was no hard connection between the landing system and a known (video shows 'F' and someone triggered that 'F') foul deck condition. That would be, like a flashing red light for the LSO and, very importantly at or near the ball (because the ball is what the pilot is watching). Seems to me something like this could have been implemented. Triggering the foul deck would also trigger the red light at the ball. Could have had a green / red system at the ball perhaps. Rule would be red light is foul deck and overules all else, including LSO.
Ball already has green (datum) and red (wave-off) lights, but yeah, a couple of these or some extra lights could indicate the deck condition A red light either end of the green datum line could be used, going green or out as the deck clears
The deck could be foul until a few seconds before entering the LA. It can get REALLY close sometime going from foul to clear. Pilots fly the ball all the way down since it's not unusual to see a foul deck call until just before the ramp. If the wave off lights were attached to the gear pickle, we'd get a lot of early wave offs which causes a TON more issues.
@@Vicarium But the pilots don't know if the deck is fouled until they get waved off, or do they get some indication nowadays ? Daytime they can see it themselves ...
Exactly right. And the entire aircraft continued off the port side of the boat after striking the S-3. Only one of the four Prowler crew was ever found.
So, why did the prowler not get waived off? Comms issue? Guys didnt know who was supposed to make the call or they all assumed the call was made by someone else?
Nobody made the call to wave off. So he came into land and the S-3 was still in the way. They couldn't see the plane in the way till too late. All the LSOs and the air boss were fired.
How on earth did the LSO platform not see there was a problem? They have someone watching the LA to make sure the previous aircraft is clear.....is that made more difficult at night because once trapped, the external lights are turned off prior to clearing? Also....is anyone in Pri-Fly watching this and if they are, could they have overridden the LSO and wave off the Prowler? Also, when the deck is foul, isn't the Fresnel Lens flashing red or something? This whole situation screams of a loss of SA between the LSO platform and Pri-Fly.
So, if the carrier is in the middle of the ocean and you are still in the air and thiis happens...can you land? I imagine there are scenarios where you cant...im sure the contigency scenario for this isnt good..but just curious what it is?
I read on another UA-cam channel "What You Haven't Seen" Collision of EA-6B Prowler with S-3B Viking, from a college roommate of the Prowler right seat guy, that it was a "hook up pass", Navy term for a touch and go. But another commenter said that the Prowler did get waved off, just too late and that's why they missed the wire. It seems like both are probably accurate. You can practice a hook up pass and get waved off too late.
You talking the foul line? It is a line painted on bothe sides of the landing area and on each side of each catapult. On the catapults it is as wide as the widest aircraft, so the E-2. Nothing is allowed in this zone for landing. They park planes right up to this line to save room onboard the flight deck. If you enter this area without permission (you will only do it once if you live because of the ass chewing you will receive) they are supposed to declare a fowl deck. Several people can actuate the fowl deck light. On the catapults for the cat shots, very few people are allowed within the fowl lines. The primary person is the shooter, who signals to launch the plane. The other two are squadron enlisted members who conduct the final check of the aircraft. They check the plane for anything out of the normal, engine oil, hydraulic, and fuel leaks. Bleed air leaks or anything that might have came loose or busted. They also check the throws of the flight controls. They are looking for full deflection of the flight controls. If they do not get a full deflection they will ask the shooter for that flight control to be actuated again. If they do not get it, they will down the aircraft to check to see why they are not getting a full deflection of that flight control.
That team of LSOs are going to get sacked for that. They won’t fly so much as a paper airplane by the time the Navy is finished with them. That was solely their responsibility to waive him off and they didn’t. Six naval officers died as a result.
That was hard to watch, knowing it was coming . My hat is off to every Naval Aviator who flys off the boat, in my opinion the best in the world.
It is hard to watch, even when you’ve seen it before. I noticed Wombat closed his eyes!
My A-6 squadron was involved in an identical incident in 1993 aboard CVN-71. Nobody died and both jets were able to fly again. The Hornet needed a one way to depot post-deployment but they were able to repair the A-6 with a new horizontal stab and vertical taken from an old KA-6D. The Hornet barely survived since it fodded both engines. One engine immediately failed but the other motor held on long enough to for him to eventually trap back aboard after they cleared the LA of debris.
This was my old squadron VS-22. I had just transferred from The Checkmates to RAG Instructor duty before this accident. Luckily, there were no back seaters in that sortie. The pilot was the CO and the right seat was an NFO. The Skipper ended up in the water and the NFO ended up swinging from the main mast over the island - hence his new callsign becoming "Swinger".
Wow, thanks for sharing!
@9:55 “ Aviation itself is not inherently dangerous, but, to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.”
- A.G. ‘Lamps’ Lamplugh
KSparks80 is spot on. This was on now ex-Enterprise. Pilot was "Walleye" Wallace, slightly my junior, fellow retired O-6, then-XO of VS-22. I was on the JTF-SWA staff in '99 and Walleye came ashore to the CAOC for a couple weeks as we rotated XOs fm the air wing during OSW. For all us 13XXs at the CAOC, hearing the story 1st person from Walleye raised the hair on the back of our necks.
V/r, Byrdman
That’s scary and sad, trust and trustworthiness are vital. I gained a new respect for sailors on a carrier that make everything go as planned.
So hard to watch, such a tragedy, just shows us all that things can happen, my upmost respect to Naval pilots that land on carriers, Thank you all for your insight into this.
Ward Carroll recently covered this with the pilot of the Viking. I believe the air boss said, “no chance paddles. Wave it off”
I was the trouble shooter talking with the pilot of the S3 the XO at the time took over as CO shortly after, via hand signals, I was the first with a fire hose on the left side, I can still see the whole thing like a cartoon in slow motion and feel the heat of the fire and hear the engines running as we kept trying to extinguish it. Once the fire was out we had to open the hatch and shut the engines down. We ended up removing what parts we could salvage and pushed it overboard.
WOW, thank you!
Great explanation of aircraft inertia sinking towards the deck. Thanks guys!
I was in VAQ-130 when this took place. I saw it happen from our maintenance control and the feed was cut immediately. It was about 3 days into deployment and we were still conducting carrier quals off Virginia.
The PLAT cameras are run by guys from V2 Div on the ship. They are all IC rates.
Was going to chime in. We had a brief module on AV equipment aboard carriers in IC-A school and I know many of my classmates went that direction.
Fortunately for me, I volunteered for the Submarine Force.
Great conversation, the second half was fascinating especially Wombats input, night operations on a carrier sound unbelievably dangerous. I was also shocked when I realized that was in 98 (yesterday for some of us lol) initially I though that was a video from Vietnam (the old days). Accidents like this always have the same routes, if you read about oil rig accidents they've also similar. You start off with a few small problems and then things compound on top of them and it can go on for a few years until one day something catastrophic happens which killed 80 people. Tragic loss and it just shows that people who operate such equipment whether it be military or our industries should be highly motivated and not treated like crap and yes money and treatment is part of that.
I can’t imagine how that affects the crew as a whole.
Definitely a situation where I hope mental health was addressed and taken care of. 🇺🇸
Holy CRAP - I had just finished my last cruise aboard USS Kitty Hawk - was ASWModule, but stole time with the HS and VS squadrons.
Wombat is a "special" guest. Love you guys!
I was on that deployment (my very first) First and only time I was in a real general quarters. 😮 I worked in the AIMD CASS shop inside the ship (retired Aviation Electronics Tech AT). Some of my buddies were in the smoking area when it happened and came running back when they called general quarters and said there was a huge fireball on the flight deck. We did a lot of reclaim work on the electronics of the aircraft affected. It was more than just the S-3 and EA-6B involved there were some F/A-18s involved too. Think we stayed in the area doing search and rescue and then trying to recover the bodies for 4 days. They only recovered one body from the EA-6B the rest were never found. S-3 pilots ejected and were recovered. One landed on the island.
Wow, thank you for sharing!
I was assigned to flight deck battle dress station for this. The two S3 pilots survived. 3 of 4 of ea6b pilots were lost at sea, the one recovered didnt survive either. It was a chaotic night.
As a Shooter, one of us was always required to work the gear just across from the LSO platform just aft of the Shelf. We had to confirm each of the 4 gear engines was set to the proper weight by visual ID of the aircraft in the groove...that was the only time we ever looked backwards.
We also had a pickle switch that switched between foul deck and clear deck when the trigger was pulled. It defaulted to foul unless actively depressed.
Any personnel crossing the LA during recovery needed the Shooters permission to cross, although we had scores of people not paying attention and running across anyway.
Equipment, gear adrift, A/C in the LA...whatever crossed the foul line would cause us to release the pickle creating a foul deck. This was hard to watch...
This one was gut wrenching to watch ,knowing something could have been done to prevent that tragedy.I love learning about Military Aircraft and sadly what comes with the successes in landing on Carriers are the deadly failures! I have learned the deck of an Aircraft Carrier is one of the most dangerous places/jobs in the world... never take your eyes off what you are doing!! This tragedy could have been prevented, perhaps,so the aftermath of this must have been new training, many discussions, meetings, change of policies, too late to save those in the EA-6B .... I wish I knew more about this situation but could a tug
have pulled that S3 off to the side of the flight deck. So dangerous at night... the EA-6B had already called the ball but those working on the S3 were not aware . I have so many questions...Why didn't someone in the tower see this and call them off, they had to be aware of the S3 being worked on,on the flight deck ... The flight deck should be kept clear at all times ... they must have different radio frequencies for communication with the Pilot who is landing? All of the above comments are questions...of why? and just seeing a video and not knowing all the circumstances one can only think certain things could have been done but again it depends on the circumstances taking place at the time...and certainly I am not in a place to judge but watch and learn. This is a gut wrenching hard lesson to learn. Sad for those who lost their lives!! 😥 0:03
Details on this incident here: members.toast.net/dawog/vaq132/e19990322prowler_accident.htm
I suggest the f18 into barricade at night vid. He loses engine gets low enough to see reflection on water plus you see the jetisson splash. And it has a single engine afterburner go-around over the barricade! I found on a random "you wont believe this" channel that shows random stuff
That bird sucked in a cat slot seal segment that hadn't been removed.
4 in the Prowler were killed. 2 in the Viking survived. All 6 had ejected. The 4 in the Prowler were thought to have hit the rear fuselage during ejection as it had folded over the top during the impact. 1 body was recovered, and 3 were lost at sea. In the Viking, one was pulled from the water by helo. The other was found unconscious swinging by his chute from an antenna on the island. Both were treated for cuts and burns. The "air boss" and 2 LSO's were reprimanded and stripped of qualifications to land aircraft.
I was stationed aboard Big E when this horrific event happened. The entire ship shuddered even down to the engineering spaces and a lot of black smoke was sucked in to the ships ventilation causing lots of alarm and confusion.
We lost good pilots that night.. God rest their souls.
I was a LSO and S2E driver in the 1960’s(NAM) For me to try and fathom why both the LSO’s ( there had to be at least 2 or more on the platform) and the AIR BOSS did not see a foul deck and someone initiate a wave off… very rare screwup and tragic.
Here's my two cents worth. A couple of things. The PLAT screen at the LSO platform was not working. The phone and pickle cords were not long enough to let the LSO's move out to look down the deck. (Now they have dedicated guys that do that). In another PLAT view you can hear the airboss call 'Wave off', but way too late.@@jerryetheredge4109
Gonky is literally Sierra Hotel ❤
Great discussion, but at least one of you guys should have done a bit more research. Both S-3 crew successfully ejected and survived; one ended up in the water, the other ended up hanging from his chute from the antenna array on the Enterprise's island. All four of the EA-6 crew ejected as the aircraft was breaking up: one was found (dead); the other three were never found and declared lost at sea. The final report stated the Viking was being held in the LA by the flight deck chief until space was made for it to taxi off. There were nine (!) officers on the LSO platform at the time, but visibility from the LSO platform to the LA was partially blocked by a parked F-18. (The LSO platform on the newer Nimitz class was designed to avoid this issue.) The LSOs knew the deck was fouled, but didn't know the Viking was still in the LA, so they merely told the Prowler to go "hook up" (touch-and-go). The Air Boss knew that the Viking was still in the LA, but assumed the LSO knew it as well and would wave off the Prowler, so he said nothing until the Prowler was at the ramp -- way too late. You can see in the video at 1:58 (just as the camera moves, unfortunately) that the Prowler's nose started rising, and was still rising when it hit the Viking, so the pilot was trying to go around as directed. Two LSOs and the Air Boss were reprimanded and removed from their posts; all three lost their carrier qualifications. No blame was assigned to any of the aircrew.
If you want more details that I left out, read about it here: members.toast.net/dawog/vaq132/e19990322prowler_accident.htm
If the deck is fouled, why would they still allow a touch & go ?
It's into the same landing area ... wether you trap, bolter or go around
Thi is very similar to an event on the Kittyhawk in September of 81 with an a-7 flying through the tail of an f14 sitting behind cat 4 getting ready for launch.. the a-7 was doing practice approach at night. And was in Wave off . Ended up killing one sailor on the Deck working after flight deck trouble shooter . The tomcat went to full power to get out of the way . Then ejected after impact. The canopy landed in the jet wash and went sliding across the deck cutting an AE- 1 almost in half agenst a tie down chains
This is a classic example of why good "safety cultures" include the ability for literally anyone in the operation to call a halt. On a gun-range, I always made sure that everyone on that range knew that they could immediately call a "cease-fire" if they saw or even perceived an unsafe condition. Everyone also knew what the "cease-fire" call REQUIRED them to do: immediately holster sidearms and safe and bring to low-ready all long-guns. Then show hands empty for everyone to see.
Once the range was surveyed and declared SAFE by the range officer, the reason for the cease-fire was investigated. If it was a misunderstanding, then "no harm, no foul". If it was a legitimate safety issue then it was dealt-with per policy and procedure.
No-one was reprimanded or ostracized for calling a cease-fire, even if it was a misunderstanding.
Far better to lose some trigger-time while locking down the reason for the CF than making people reluctant to call a CF for fear of being thought badly of...................
Practiced in Japanese train stations that have an emergency stop button for the trains, on the platform !
That was tough to watch.
My father flew TBMs modified for ASW reconnaissance during the 50s and early 60s. Most flights took off from Willow Grove, PA but he had to be requalified on a regular basis for carrier landings. His preference was obviously for following the "meatball" on the first optical landing system deployed in the mid-50s. Dad swore he always stuck the landing, but some of his claims about carrier activities became more grandiose over time. He did serve with distinction for 14 years, most of it with the Naval Air Reserve, searching for Soviet subs in the Western North Atlantic Ocean region just off the Continental Shelf.
Landing on a carrier’s short deck, there’s very little room for errors. Huge respects to these naval aviators.
Tragic. I doubt the EA6B could see over the nose to see the S3.
We had many close calls we had an E-2 and an E-3 hit tail rudders on A-7Es and that was scary working behind the 6 pack.
@@nemesis2264 Typo I meant A-3 Whale and they were on the Forestall along with many other carriers.
Thee prowler look like they tried to go around right at the end
NGL, not a pilot but I always tense up watching carrier landings. I guess in that sense the F-35B landings seem to be safer since they are coming in slow and from the side. But I also heard that the systems on the F-35C also have made trap landings easier too.
This seems like an LSO, and Air Boss failure.
Yup, two LSOs and the Air Boss were sacked and lost their CQ. More details on the entire incident here: members.toast.net/dawog/vaq132/e19990322prowler_accident.htm
I served with WOMBAT in VAW-117 in the mid-2000's aboard the NIMITZ.
The worst incident was the USS Forrestal fire of 1967. Loaded planes with full gas tanks, it was that bad.😧
I was there on the USS ENTERPRISE
I was too.
@@jeremiahdant3151 where did you work at buddy
@@hammerslamper4125 AIMD CASS shop inside the ship when it happened (retired AT). People were in the smoking area when it happened and they called general quarters. They came back wide eyed and said there was this huge fireball.
@@hammerslamper4125 AIMD CASS shop inside the ship (retired AT). Some of my buddies were in the smoking area when it happened and came running back when they called general quarters and said there was a huge fireball on the flight deck. We did a lot of reclaim work on the electronics of the aircraft affected. It was just more than the S-3 and EA-6B there were some F-18s involved too.
Seems very similar to the 1981 crash involving a Prowler and a Viking?
The S-3 was a cool aircraft
They not chosing the modified S-3 to be next gen COD doesnt make any sense...
Doesn't the LSO get some visual indication of a fouled deck Wombat ?
I mean ... it's on the PLAT, somebody's telling the system to record a fouled deck
One or 2 of the red wave-off lights on the ball could be used to indicate a fouled deck ...
I though I've seen all of these mishap vids... man!
Check out the E6 crash land on the USSRanger Rand Mcnaly. Case 3 approach... wild
He was in my A-6 squadron in the early 90's. He died in a plane crash along with his BN doing FCLP's at NAS Alameda, CA in the spring of 1994. They ejected into the water while trying to ride the plane around the break more because sail boats were at the end of the runway having a race. They always raced at the end of the runway.
@SplashJohn is correct many more details are available re the LSO's blocked view, the reason the S3 was held in place, the expectations that "someone else" would call the wave off, etc. @WardCarroll also just published great video with Capt.(Ret) Kevin "Hoser" Miller (who was on this deployment) and Greg "Walleye" Wallace who was the pilot of the S3 Viking. When Wallace recalls he knew something was wrong "when the director started running..." it sent a chill up my spine
ua-cam.com/video/yYTm_u5zjAA/v-deo.html
Terrible crash....
Unfortunate there was no hard connection between the landing system and a known (video shows 'F' and someone triggered that 'F') foul deck condition. That would be, like a flashing red light for the LSO and, very importantly at or near the ball (because the ball is what the pilot is watching). Seems to me something like this could have been implemented. Triggering the foul deck would also trigger the red light at the ball. Could have had a green / red system at the ball perhaps. Rule would be red light is foul deck and overules all else, including LSO.
Ball already has green (datum) and red (wave-off) lights, but yeah, a couple of these or some extra lights could indicate the deck condition
A red light either end of the green datum line could be used, going green or out as the deck clears
The deck could be foul until a few seconds before entering the LA. It can get REALLY close sometime going from foul to clear. Pilots fly the ball all the way down since it's not unusual to see a foul deck call until just before the ramp. If the wave off lights were attached to the gear pickle, we'd get a lot of early wave offs which causes a TON more issues.
@@Vicarium But the pilots don't know if the deck is fouled until they get waved off, or do they get some indication nowadays ?
Daytime they can see it themselves ...
when you trap you turn the position lights off also so the the plane goes dark
That is really sad...seems like it should have been an easy waveoff. RIP and Godspeed to all souls lost.
IIRC, they did attempt to eject, however the Prowler folded in half and they ejected into the tail section.
Exactly right. And the entire aircraft continued off the port side of the boat after striking the S-3. Only one of the four Prowler crew was ever found.
Gonky how in the hell this was allowed to happen in the first place
Was this crash the reason to have a paddles looking back now?
So, why did the prowler not get waived off? Comms issue? Guys didnt know who was supposed to make the call or they all assumed the call was made by someone else?
Answers here: members.toast.net/dawog/vaq132/e19990322prowler_accident.htm
Nobody made the call to wave off. So he came into land and the S-3 was still in the way. They couldn't see the plane in the way till too late. All the LSOs and the air boss were fired.
How on earth did the LSO platform not see there was a problem? They have someone watching the LA to make sure the previous aircraft is clear.....is that made more difficult at night because once trapped, the external lights are turned off prior to clearing? Also....is anyone in Pri-Fly watching this and if they are, could they have overridden the LSO and wave off the Prowler? Also, when the deck is foul, isn't the Fresnel Lens flashing red or something? This whole situation screams of a loss of SA between the LSO platform and Pri-Fly.
Read about it here: members.toast.net/dawog/vaq132/e19990322prowler_accident.htm
So, if the carrier is in the middle of the ocean and you are still in the air and thiis happens...can you land? I imagine there are scenarios where you cant...im sure the contigency scenario for this isnt good..but just curious what it is?
there has to be a few options depending on airframe. ditching close to the ship or turn into wind and eject at mins to be recovered by the helo.
We were on the way to the med
That was my cousin that was flying the Prowler.
If so, give more information. Otherwise it was not & u r just twisted
Did the Prowler bolter? Its seemed like he was going way to fast at the point of collision.
It was a last-second (literally) wave-off. But keep in mind that landing speed is about 135 knots.
Prowler was hook up for touch and go.
It also appears that the EA-6 did not catch a wire.
I read on another UA-cam channel "What You Haven't Seen" Collision of EA-6B Prowler with S-3B Viking, from a college roommate of the Prowler right seat guy, that it was a "hook up pass", Navy term for a touch and go.
But another commenter said that the Prowler did get waved off, just too late and that's why they missed the wire. It seems like both are probably accurate. You can practice a hook up pass and get waved off too late.
What is the no kidding line. What is it for?
You talking the foul line? It is a line painted on bothe sides of the landing area and on each side of each catapult. On the catapults it is as wide as the widest aircraft, so the E-2. Nothing is allowed in this zone for landing. They park planes right up to this line to save room onboard the flight deck. If you enter this area without permission (you will only do it once if you live because of the ass chewing you will receive) they are supposed to declare a fowl deck. Several people can actuate the fowl deck light. On the catapults for the cat shots, very few people are allowed within the fowl lines. The primary person is the shooter, who signals to launch the plane. The other two are squadron enlisted members who conduct the final check of the aircraft. They check the plane for anything out of the normal, engine oil, hydraulic, and fuel leaks. Bleed air leaks or anything that might have came loose or busted. They also check the throws of the flight controls. They are looking for full deflection of the flight controls. If they do not get a full deflection they will ask the shooter for that flight control to be actuated again. If they do not get it, they will down the aircraft to check to see why they are not getting a full deflection of that flight control.
Is that 100% Instrument landing on Carrier at night?
no, at 3/4 mile you fly the meatball.
100% of All Carrier Landing Videos are fuzzy. Why? (Ditto Gun Cameras)
High def video doesn't get released or played over the ship's CCTV.
Someone better have been court martialed
This kind of thing just makes you sick
100%
🙈🙉🙊human error🙊🙉🙈
That team of LSOs are going to get sacked for that. They won’t fly so much as a paper airplane by the time the Navy is finished with them. That was solely their responsibility to waive him off and they didn’t. Six naval officers died as a result.
All 4 in the Prowler perished, but the two in the Viking ejected and survived.
@@robfenrick the Viking had four crewmembers. What happened to the other two?
@@TheRealCFF In this case, the S-3 had only the front seats filled. Rear seats were empty. They are not flight critical...
@@TheRealCFF By that time the Viking was mainly a tanker, flying with reduced crew
I was a point checker with VAQ137 on the America CV66 ..this should never have happened 😥
Fair Winds and Follwing Seas
🙏🏻⚓🇺🇸
Is Wombat loosing weight? My mom said he’s looking more Sexy than normal! 🤣🫣😂🤦🏻♂️