Why I Stopped Listening to Christian Music
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2019
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The content of this educational video is covered by fair use. My work is transformative and adds interpretation and analysis to the original work much as happens when I teach poetry in a university classroom. When I explain songs, I rarely use more the lyrics or short clips of the original song or music video and do not hurt the song’s salability or provide a market substitute. All copyright claims will be disputed and appealed. Please see me as your ally as I use a literary perspective to enable fans to understand and enjoy your wonderful and interesting piece of music.
Having watched the whole video now:
Seriously, I can get on board with basically all of what you said; it's scary how much of this I identify and/or agree with. I really dislike the forced emotional aspect of Christian worship! I have been emotional in church before, but it's more often when we sing an old hymn that...gasp...actually has theological depth and lyrical complexity to it.
Justice M Totally agree with you
Samee. I preferred listening to Old hymns than Christian worship we have today. I'm mostly concern for the theology aspect coming from popular bands like Hillsongs.
@@edenbru11 The only Christian Band I like is U 2 Yes They are Christian but I don't believe in any Type of Religion
@@edenbru11 Thousaltnot when They were A Band made some Great Christian Music
@@hudsonneil6813 Well I guess then You aren't Friends anymore what A Shitty thing to do to A Friend Screw You
Christian music to me is often full of cliches, not personal enough. and to "happy" most of the time. When they do talk about sad life moments they generalize and are vague. When trying to spread faith it is always important to be personal, because people will know you are being real.
STLDawg Fan so much this! My biggest complaint is none of it feels personal, I think For King and Country do a really great job at making personal music that feel like it means something to them too
This post is my life fam, thank you so much
I get what you mean by Christian songs being too happy but the reason for happy songs is to give praise to the Father. I listen to a lot of Christian music and I can pick out a number of personal/sad songs that aren't vague or generalized. I made a list if you'd like to check them out.
Even If by MercyMe
ua-cam.com/video/B6fA35Ved-Y/v-deo.html
As You Find Me by Hillsong UNITED
ua-cam.com/video/V0eXYR65Z2w/v-deo.html
Run To The Father by Cody Carnes
ua-cam.com/video/HcpeLDp0Foo/v-deo.html
Great Things by Elevation Worship
ua-cam.com/video/htPID9rB7h8/v-deo.html
You Say by Lauren Daigle - this one's pretty popular
ua-cam.com/video/sIaT8Jl2zpI/v-deo.html
Who Am I by Casting Crowns
ua-cam.com/video/3rT8Re1EIQc/v-deo.html
God Of All My Days by Casting Crowns
ua-cam.com/video/ZYkZE8AogDE/v-deo.html
Oh My Soul by Casting Crowns
ua-cam.com/video/DjNZf878ISQ/v-deo.html
Another In The Fire by Hillsong UNITED
ua-cam.com/video/zmNc0L7Ac5c/v-deo.html
Fighting For Me by Riley Clemmons
ua-cam.com/video/rR3DsGJ5QVQ/v-deo.html
I think in my opinion (Even though I never dealt with depression), the song Tidal Wave by Owl City does a much better job than what worship songs do as you mention the flaws. It actually goes over the feelings of depression, how it feels, and it still gives a message of hope in God. Albeit in a very whimsical way of lyrical choices, but I think overall it does a much better job at comforting people with mental health issues or anyone going through really difficult periods in their life.
That's true for what's played on Christian radio. Check out Larry Norman, Sweet Comfort Band, Rich Mullins, Mylon and Broken Heart, DeGarmo and Key, Lost Dogs, Big Tent Revival, Andrew Peterson, Daniel Amos, The Choir, Steve Taylor, Needtobreathe, Phil Keagy, The Prayer Chain, Mark Heard, Skypark, Burlap to Cashmere. So many great "Christian" artists with great lyrics/music, you just got a look past the radio stations that play all the crap. :)
"If you got the truth, you don't need to manipulate." Nailed it!
I felt the same way about “if you don’t listen to christian music you’re a bad Christian” then I found twenty one pilots and didn’t start listening to “secular music “ till I was 13 (aka this yr) and I honestly feel the same about half of the stuff you said. I still listen to Christian music but I still love TØP, Billie eilish, Khalid and all the main pop singers.
(except TOP is a christian band)
@@MPSFilmsOfficial I don't think TOP is technically a Christian band, but I know it does talk about Christianity a lot... :D
What exactly is “Christian Music” ? I really believe that if it does glorify the Lord then it is something totally okay for a Christian to listen to. So for me as a Christian,Tøp is Christian rock music. Also a lot of people believe that Gospel music is only limited to slow paced music..which I don’t believe is true. I listen to NF for example and I could say that it is Christian music.. not disagreeing with you, just sharing a point
I have REND Collective, King's Kaleidoscope, and Jars of Clay alongside death and black metal in my playlist.
Thanks for putting this out Clifford. I did the same and my friends thought that I was weird because of it. It's never been emotional for me, just really corny. Love your vids and keep it up dude!
Corny how are they corny
YES YES YES TO ALL OF THIS. I am a Christian but I really struggle with Christian music. I still listen to some of it but I'm very picky for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
Ok so modern white american bands aren't the only Christian musicians. There's gospel, hymns, folk, classical there's even rap.
It saddens me that I can’t listen to modern Christian music. I personally love early 2000’s Christian music, with the R&B type sound and the punk-rock inspired stuff. There were good songs that felt real to me, like My Redeemer Lives or Slow Fade by Casting Crowns. I don’t find that same realism and the same love in today’s Christian music. It feels mass-produced, cookie-cutter, and honestly manipulative, like it’s trying to be something it’s not. Maybe I’m missing some artists out there that aren’t being pushed to the forefront, or maybe I’m just missing some people. If so, please let me know. I want to find good Christian music I can enjoy, love, feel genuine in listening to.
christy listen to kings kaleidoscope (very creative, alt-rock/hip-hop/synth pop band) and citizens and saints (alt-rock/80’s inspired pop). I don’t listen to 90% of contemporary christian, but I love them
Radio U
Casting Crowns is one of the few current artists that actually tries. The songs on their albums that aren't radio singles are especially deep and thought-provoking. I heard "Start Right Here" on Spotify recently and it was calling out the church on so many things!
If you want to check them out, Switchfoot is so good.
@@joeysandoval5269 Switchfoot is truly amazing
This explains my exact thoughts! I could never put it into words, thank you Cliff!
As someone who works for a christian radio station... this is a fantastic perspective. Thank you.
Cliff, I think you would love the music at my church. Each worship service is based on a passage of scripture. Very non-manipulative. Just creating a worshipful atmosphere like you mentioned, rather than emotional.
my former best friend ditched me and called me names he once called me a faggot in front of my mom just ecause i bouht slipknots iowa i came out of the car and called myself a maggot then he said nick your not a maggot your a faggot my former best friend use to force freed his musical tastes upon me and guess what he goes to church he once told me he had way better musical tastes then me he once told me rap and hip hop music is better than metal than one day he ought a mushroomhead record and he told me mushroomhead is better than slipknot i kicked him outta my life in 2013 before my mom died my mom died in jan of 2014 and im not very big fan of christitan movies or christitan music due to how they mistreat athetits my mom was a athetit and she neve forced her religon or beilfs upon others
I strongly believe that when christian bands get radio play they are forced to censor and sugar coat a lot of their stuff, like plumb, and skillet
That is so true. Both of those groups have fallen so far....
I listen to lots of Christian music, but NOT Christian radio, and that's for basically the exact reasons you said here. Switchfoot is my favorite band of all time (with Twenty One Pilots as a close second) because they don't feel the need to do all the things that you described Christian music as. In fact, I think that they don't even like to consider themselves a "Christian band" for that reason.
Also, I would be very interested to see a video about what Christian music should be like
I think that Christian music should be want you want. In a sense where you can somehow glorify God through the music you listen to or sing. But that it doesn’t have to be fast paced or say the word “God” in every line. Actually it doesn’t even have to literally say the word “God” or “Jesus” but it can mean what you need it to mean, where you can connect to it and relate to it in terms of your faith and also enjoy the music. I like NF and Tøp for example. And many Christians may say that their songs aren’t “Worship” songs, but to me they are because they truly Glorify the Lord without sugarcoating the real struggles that are faced by people especially Christians. Sorry if this was long..I got a little carried away😅
Is it still better than Pray For The Wicked?
nah, just kidding. i have the same sentiments as you.
i agree. sometimes mainstream christians music is ok, but overall i’m not interested bc it all sounds too similar and is so overplayed. it sucks that it’s mainly just one music genre and has basic messages and less originality. i do love twenty one pilots and half alive, and they’re not specifically christian bands but they’re christians and both have amazing messages. and i love so much how half alive mentioned Jesus in their new album. i cried listening to creature the first time bc it’s so amazing to see a band i love talk about it and actually be original and appeal to my own music taste.
emma mitchell yes I totally agree, I was the same way when I listened to creature!
Adelyn Bennett i know what you mean. i have noticed the underlying themes and words that indicated things about God but seriously it meant so much to me when they said Jesus. i love that song so much. i understood what it was about from the beginning and i definitely had tears on my face.
I agree, there are few Christian songs I like, the notable one being Baba Yetu
another song with similar sounds that you might also like is "Ayeyi Wura/Most High God." I found that on a Discover Weekly from Spotify and I really like it.
I LOVE Baba Yetu!!! I sang it in choir, and when we sang it, I felt more spiritually connected than when I went to church. ❤️
Baba Yetu is absolutely stunning. I’m currently trying to convince my choir director to let us sing it this year 😂
Lauren F. I love Baba Yetu!! We are doing it in our school choir and I love it!
Glad I'm not alone in this. It felt really watered down.
Note: I haven't watched the full video yet.
But have you heard of CHH(Christian Hip-hop) it has different sounds and it's not all worship music,but their real life experiences and their struggles with their faith, depression,their marriage life,etc...
I agree but unfortunately CHH is not what it once was...
@@tobr641 do you mean that in a good way or a bad way
@@deandreelliottii probably in a bad way
Yes in a bad way. When I look at 116 Clique (Lecrae, Trip Lee, Andy Mineo etc.), in the beginning their lyrics were mostly christ-centered and deep, but they became famous and now it's just so flat and boring. I'm not saying it's bad music or you shouldn't listen to it (I still listen to some of their songs either). But when it comes to the lyrics there are better alternatives like Shai Linne or Beautiful Eulogy. Just my humble opinion.
@@tobr641 regarding the 116 clique their music is still deep,and if you listen to their full projects they are still Christ centered,but they are doing it in a way that is authentic to them
Oh my gosh, I could write an essay on this. My dad is one of the worship leaders at my church, and he feels the exact same way! After we went to our tøp concert, he was really inspired by the spiritual experience that everyone was experiencing even though the songs weren’t “emotionally manipulative” as you say. He’s talked about wanting to use Doubt as a worship song because it actually showcases an inner spiritual struggle that people can identify with.
I also attend a Christian college, and there’s a strange divide that occurs between the people who listen to exclusively “Christian” music and the people that love Jesus but still enjoy secular music. I’ve talked about seeing Jesus in twenty one pilots and Jon Bellion, but people actually get mad at me because they don’t think it’s really Christian unless Jesus’ name is explicitly said.
I’ve gone to a Hillsong concert, and I’ve gone to a twenty one pilots concert. I worshipped during Oceans, but I felt my walls shattering during Taxi Cab. Oceans tells you how you’re supposed to feel, Taxi Cab offers a narrative that you can identify with. It points out our brokenness but then showcases Jesus as the ultimate hope.
Thank you for discussing this, Clifford. Our God is far more than what worship music makes him into.
you summarized literally everything i feel about christian music- i'm glad i'm not the only one and you just nailed it. good job, man!
I hope this doesn’t end up starting a race war, but i think if you’re open minded, you may like a lot of black Christian music.
In the most respectful way possible, I have to say I really love Christian music produced by people of color. I hope that’s not cultural appropriation. But music is meant to be shared and appreciated, right? It’s more of a ethnic tension calming thing when you celebrate someone’s music because it’s good music, at least I think.
I really like Iamson. Do you have any suggestions we should look up?
Bethany Rose Its in no way appropriation. Dont let this politically correct culture make you feel ashamed for what you like. Like what you like and dislike what you dislike unapologetically 💕
Bethany Rose Here's my Gospel playlist. I listen to every song routinely usually once a day. Go through each song. The playlist is diverse. Theres bound to be at least one song you like: ua-cam.com/play/PLVSlJusryUw_IjcS31lIQ9EzFoUSqe3oF.html
I’m not religious now but When I was little I loved black Christian music. It was more danceable
As a Christian, this whole video was soo relatableee! I was so scared of not listening to Christian music cause I would be considered a "bad" christian. But it all seemed the same or like you said, they were kind of trying to force me into feeling something. I'm just SO glad I'm not the only one who felt this way about it😊
I feel the same way. I was standing in church during worship the other day, and they were playing a song and I counted 7 unique lines in the entire song and they were just repeated. I felt bad because everyone had their hands in the air or were on their knees in worship and I just couldn't connect like that. Like you, I wish their were more personal christian songs that were popular. That's why I especially love early TOP, because Tyler is very real about depression, suicide, and how it relates to his relationship to the Lord.
Should we wait for Now Not Yet review or explaining?
ppp ppp he said he was doing it I think
this was it😂😂 it’s the good kind basically
I'm Jewish and I have this exact problem lol they'res always some really sad sappy piano keys behind EVERYTHING
Casting crowns, switchfoot, demon hunter are a few bands i still listen to today but I understand what you mean so MUCH
Haven't been a Christian for many years but demon hunter still slaps
DEMON HUNTER YES
I feel like Casting Crowns are the epitome of what this video is about.
mewithoutyou, Emery, Five Iron Frenzy, Showbread, Anberlin, Underoath, Falling Up, Norma Jean, Relient K, Red. Etc
And this is why i listen to Panic!, TOP, MCR, and Pentatonix.
I wish Christians didnt forget about Stryper, they were the best.
Its always great to see an upload from Cliff after a long day of school!
I do agree with most Christian music being shallowly happy. I've also noticed, a lot of Christian music in general does this but it seems to be more with the happier stuff, there's a lot of excessive repetition. One time I looked up one of the songs they sing in my church a lot, and it repeated the phrase "He has done great things" 17 times. Seventeen.
My knee-jerk reaction:
C'mon Cliff, not all Christian music is bad -- have you heard "Breakfast" by the (OG) Newsboys? ;)
Justice M. YESS
Justice M. The Whole “Take me to your Leader” album is so good.
5 year old me screaming: “THEY DON’T SERVE BREAKFAST IN HELL”
I miss the band that wrote silly lyrics that carried deep spiritual truths.
newsboys is an AWESOME band
ahhhh this is so important!! Some additional thoughts: 1. There is a difference between worship music and Christian music. I think people (and churches) forget this and worship can seem inauthentic because of it. 2. many churches do a terrible job of picking God-centric worship music and instead choose songs centered around the human condition or what God does for people. Worship is literally an act of adoration!!!! Praising somebody’s character!! Not trashing on how bad we are. 3. God 100% can use emotions to influence us, but faith is NOT a feeling. Many mega churches tend to lean towards emotive faith which, without checking it against the Bible, can be extremely manipulative.
All this being said, my absolute fav Christian artist is Kings Kaleidoscope and they freaking rockkkkkkkkkk
I've been waiting for someone to say this for a very long time. I cannot express how much this means to me- thank you.
Ok, I NEED you to make a DC Talk video!!!!
This is so important and I really appreciate you making this Cliff!
I agree with a lot of what you said. The church I attend doesn’t listen to any ccm (Christian contemporary music). They all listen to hymns only lol. But I listen to “secular music” and honestly most of the music I listen to have deep meanings. And a lot of twenty one pilots music has really brought me closer to God. Its not like I’m being guilted to feel a certain why when I listen to music. Idk if jay makes sense but that’s what I had to say. Also, it’s between God and I if I’m going to cry about some sin I have I’m going to cry because God has convicted me not because someone wants me to feel bad. People try to guilt me into not liking the music I listen to. When in reality a lot of the music I listen to convicts me more than the music that is played at church.
I agree! I would check out John Mark McMillan “borderland” and “mercury and lightning” albums. Rivers and Robots. And Josh Garrels. And Keith Green
Love Josh Garrels.
Josh Garrels is fantastic and so is Rivers and Robots
I grew up in a place where Christian radio didn’t really have a presence. I always enjoyed regular radio and had my assortment of Christian bands on tape or cd. My problem with Christian radio is that it is too roller coaster-y. They have a super upbeat jam and then a make you feel deep song that’s slow. And what you said, it just doesn’t make me want to listen in general. So now I basically have my favorite bands on my phone or a podcast playing through the speakers now.
I can totally relate! My mom showed me some of the WOW CDs when I was young and enjoyed those but didn’t have access to Christian radio. I appreciate those old songs better than new contemporary Christian music.
Thank you for the honesty! I couldn’t agree more!
This is a really good video that brought up some things that I’d been feeling but hadn’t thought about a huge amount. Thank you a lot
Yes, Cliff! You are speaking to my heart with this video! The whole emotional manipulation, lack of creativity, and feelings of cynicism are all things I have personally felt/experienced.
Idk why his non TØP videos get less views he is an interesting youtuber that makes good videos
Edit: oml he liked my comment :) thank you i love your vids and what u had to say
I'm not religius, but I'm really fasinated by your story. Cause It reminds me a lot about how I was with music before I discovered what I acctualy liked. Thank you for sharing your story!
I resonate with this soooo much. Thank you for putting words to a topic i have never been able to talk about openly.
I feel the same way, Cliff! I wish the songs were more relatable and real.
I've been hoping you would do a video on Christian music for a little while now! Perfect timing, thanks!
Thank you so much for making this! I really struggle with these things in Christian music and it makes me feel so relieved that I am not the only one that is aware of the “emotional manipulation” tendencies.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! I rly needed this
I love Jars of Clay! They have amazing musical and lyrical value I highly recommend them
My favorite band on Christian radio is Switchfoot. I feel like they're so real, and yes, they're a Christian band, but they cover a lot of other topics as well. They sing about life, and they're lyrics are real. I mean Cliff mentioned them, but if any of ya'll haven't heard their music, check em out!
did you know before the newsboys play the song gods not dead like a lion they stared in two of gods not dead films they show clips from the first movie of gods not dead they show the athetit the crowd boos him then they show the hero joss cheer him then back to the athetit boo him my mom was a athetit and she never forced her religon or beilfs upon nobody why do chrisian rock bands and christitan movies potray all athetit people as vile evil people my mom died in jan of 2014 she was a athet and she never ever judged others for their religon or beilfs why do newsboys do tjis and why does the steaming service known as pureflic potray athetits people as vile evil people i listen to all kinds of music but i love heavy metal the most why do the newsboys get away with murder and why does david a r white and pure flix get away with murder remember not all athetits people are mean or bad or nasty or evil or vile and why do churchers call heavy metal music as evil and i live in washington state i bought my ipod to my friends church he asked me what i was listening to i told him i was listening to mushroomhead and he gave me a negative look another guy again asked what i was listening to and i told him slipknot and then this guy gave me such a negative look then people were starting to talk negative about me within this church i tryed to tell them u ksten to whatever i want to listen to one guy tryed started getting into a arguement with me ecause he saw i was listening to marilyan manson one guy trye to kick me out of the chrch due to me listening to stuff like slayer metallica megadeth and more one guy tryed punching me in the face due to me listening to ac/dc
i, as a Christian, feel _exactly_ like this except i was allowed to listen to “secular” music growing up. but honestly the best mix for anyone who wants to listen to christian and non-christian music simultaneously is tøp.
I can hear the real cry for authenticity from you man. I find that worship music, you're right, can get really cliche and feels emotionally manipulative. When the singer's or listener's attention ISN'T focused on God. For example, in "How he Loves Us" (far our that's my jam!) I would find that a really weird, shallow and emotionally manipulative song. I mean how many times does he repeat "Oh how he loves us!". Far out. BUT! Because I KNOW God loves me, I can flippin sing that song a billion times over, because "God's Spirit testifies with my spirit that we are his children" (Romans 8:16). I can authentically celebrate God's love in my life. I totally understand the whole "Are they just manipulating us". But I feel like maybe it's just as much the congregation who are manipulating themselves than the worship leader or song writer maliciously and ignorantly thinking they have to conjur up some emotion because deep down they believe God's not enough.
Last thing I'd say is emotion isn't actually inherently a bad thing. Yes, manipulating emotion for emotion's sake during worship is stupid (I totally agree with you on that!) but only if emotion becomes the focus in worship over God living in us. But if we can set an atmosphere for us to connect with God on a holistic level (With our mind, emotions and body) during worship, I think that's absolutely awesome!!!!! All through scripture emotion is evident. Sad emotions. Happy emotions. It has dancing, it has shouting, it has "put our face on the ground and throw ashes on our faces" crying and mourning. Compared to scripture and the emotion captured in that when the people were worshiping or praising God through creative mediums, us peeps in the west can't hold a candle to them!!!!!!!! :D
So I agree on the whole. Authentic worship is what we're striving for right?! But I would suggest we don't throw the baby out with the bath water and start, especially, getting negative and judgemental of worship teams and those who worship in their services. I think we need to be a bit more nuanced in our response before saying "They're all just looking for emotion." For many, I really do believe they're authentically worshiping and the worship is hitting to the "core" of them by God's Spirit.
Shared this immediately with some of my other disaffected Christian friends. It's midnight, but I can't wait to hear their opinions tomorrow. Absolutely love this video
I 100% agree with this. Love it. I've never really been a music person, I connect with God through writing poetry, but I do appreciate a good song when I hear it. I've been around church my whole life and seen all the things you mentioned. I am really cynical and jaded about some of the songs that we sing in church because they just feel synthetic, like nobody has ever actually felt that way.
For me, my favourite Christian song is also the Greatest Christian Song of all time. Amazing Grace.
i’ve visited many churches before and i always found it strange that they had the keyboard behind prayer. not that it’s wrong or whatever but something about it was off to me and o think you just described it. the words are the important part and the keyboard really is just out of place (no matter how nice it sounds bc there are some Talented peeps out there). but yeah, thanks for putting it into words. also, half•alive’s new album is basically worship music and i love it so much 😭
Thank you for this!
Thank you for this video Cliff, I have dealt with exactly what you’ve expressed here (Word. For. Word.) for quite a while now and have struggled to find the words to explain it to others. I also have lots of ideas about what Christian artists should do to fix all this so it would be nice to hear yours. I know you like John Mark McMillan but definitely check out his most recent album (Mercury and Lightning) if you haven’t already for lots of real, personal, and deep lyrics. And similarly, Kings Kaleidoscope is another Christian band with music and lyrics that FAR exceed the quality and real-ness of everything else out there. Thanks again for all you do.
I don't like Christian music very much, but I saw for king and country in concert last night and they were amazing. I think you would love their concert.
sunshinehappybean I love for king and country in concert. I have seen them 3 times now and seeing them for a 4th time in October
Clifford, This was very interesting to me. I've been watching many of your TØP videos [a favorite band of my wife] and I stumbled onto this one. I'm 61. I've been a follower of Jesus since I was 12. The Christian Music renaissance of the 70s was the water I swam in. I sang it with a group as a Teenager and have led worship all my life. I was a DJ for The Christian Music Station in the Seattle Market for 5 years. And these days I'm a pastor of a small church on the Olympic Peninsula of WA
.
I'm in complete agreement with your post here. There is a distinct effort to manipulate emotions in gathered worship and whether feelings are produced is essentially the mark of whether "worship" has happened or not. At the core of the problem is the idea of what Worship is. Worship is living all of your life in accordance with the revealed will of God. One small piece of that worship pie is what may happen on Sunday. But the modern church has chosen to label that "worship" and treat it as if that is the sum total of what worship is. So, of course, if the right emotions aren't tweaked then "worship" hasn't happened and we've failed.
I'm very picky about any worship songs I use. I tend to rewrite them because the lyrics are typically so bad. I don't listen to Christian radio stations because all the music sounds the same AND the lyrics are weak and predictable. Once in a while I'll check in to see what I hear. One of those times I ran into Mercy Me's "Even if you don't." That worked for me. A lot of Randy Stonehill worked for me- mostly stuff they wouldn't/couldn't play on the radio [Great Big Stupid World] and there's a whole set of music from Lost Dogs that is all about following Jesus in real world living.
Just wanted to say, from this Pastor's perspective, I couldn't agree more with your commentary.
Tell the truth, tell it artfully, so that it appeals to the mind and let the emotions come if they will.
Well said man. Enjoyed the video! 👍
WOW you basically took the words out of my mouth. Totally agree with you!
Your opinion is honestly so awesome and so relevant rn! It's really good that you question things like this and it seperates religion from relationship. Hillsings new album is pretty cool. Also have you listened to Jars of Clay or Tree 63?
Also please explain "As you find me" by Hillsong
I've had these same thoughts for so long. thanks for putting my thoughts into words.
Pretty sure that's what the "Entertain my faith" lyric in "Holding On To You" by Twenty One Pilots is about.
Do you ever do a segment where you check out your subscribers' music? I respect your worldview and insight into music as a whole. Awesome content, man.
Do more videos about christian music! I appreciate them and relate to your thoughts!!
Around the 8:30 mark you talk about how your life (like most) has good parts and nad parts. I feel the same way you do about all of this and I have tried to find a band that fit the fact that life has its good and bad. I think Relient K really did that for me. Matt has some of the most relatable lyrics ive ever sang along too. I love how each album they have produced has been relatable to the season of life they ( mostly Thiessen) are in. I've tried to reason why I like Reilent K more than other bands I really like such as Switchfoor who introduced me to Relient K and i think it is because the majority of their songs are honest and vulnerable. I think the Christian music market needs more of that. Just my two cents but would absolutely love for you to do a Relient K video of some sort.
I’m glad someone actually talks about this. Because all the points you’re making, is all that I agree to.
Such a good video I have definitely had these thoughts before and i'm sure there are many more people that have also.
Ok I will say that creature by half alive on their new album is literally an amazing song and the chorus, especially, has a worship song feel to it. So I definitely think you can find songs with lyrical content about God outside of the umbrella of Christian music. Creature literally moved me emotionally and spiritually so much. I know you will love it.
But I still love some Christian music. I especially enjoy NEEDTOBREATHE, Hillsong, Elevate, and the music/albums created by my church (Gateway Church). I don’t listen to the Christian radio station really because most of the songs I don’t connect with or feel they are overplayed. And in my church, I’ve hardly ever been in worship where they play a song that was on the radio. So I’m thankful to be in a church that has a worship team with people that write good music and that are just average people going through life.
Thanks for sharing your feelings!
Ginny Kestel OMGOODNESS... Half Alive’s Creature is incredible... my current fave song. Seeing them live tomorrow night, can’t wait!
Dacdacgirl - Alex Wright ahh yes it’s so good!!! And I’m so jealous!! Have fun ❤️
I respect you man keep up the good work.
You should talk about the best lyrics you’ve heard, both in worship and non-worship! And thanks for this video! Boy, the piano thing in praying drives me mad, it feels like you said, so manipulative, like is God was not enough and we needed to compensate Him
Dude, I think our brain waves are in sync! Every time you post a video it’s about something I’m struggling with or thinking about a lot.
When I go to church, I know the doctrine is true, but a lot of the time I feel like there’s emotional manipulation, whether it’s through made up stories or songs written by members that are passed throughout the whole church network and praised for their brilliance (honestly though, those songs are awful and the stories are designed to make you cry). It often makes me not want to go to church or the church activities. I keep going though, even if half of the time the spirit doesn’t feel real; I know I need church.
Also, during the video my mind kept going to that scene in the Nico And The Niners video where the bishops are doing their ritual ceremony thing. Do you think it could be related?
Thanks again for another great video! ☺️
Hit the nail right on the head, Cliff. Also, I don't know about you, but another Christian song I really like is Lord, I Need You by Matt Maher (I'm pretty sure he's the original artist). Something about it just seems so sincere to me.
I relate to THIS so much Clifford!!!! I was raised in a home where it was christian or nothing (at least referring to music) that's why when I found twenty one pilots it was amazing because they aren't labeled "Christian" but are Christians in a band. They hide Jesus in their music. So they were the first secular artist I listened to in my life.
I honestly love this, it’s so relatable! A lot of people tell me “oh, you should just listen to Christian music” 🌚 but I agree with you! I still listen to Skillet, NewsBoys, Flyleaf, etc.
Very well put, sir.
I see your point. I just stopped listening to songs that promotes and glamorizes drugs, gang life, or sexualizing a person like they’re a piece of meat. I listen to both Christian and secular music that promotes good things or that tells a relatable story about life or over coming struggles.
Thank you *so* much for posting this. I've been frustrated with Christian music for years now-along with the Church worship experience-because so much of it is repetitive and "cheap" feeling...and it *doesn't* have to be that way. You expressed many of my own thoughts, I just didn't know how to say them! Lol.
Occasionally I'll find a good CCM song, but many of the songs I listen to that reference God are done subtly as the author is telling their own story (NF), or not fully defined by the lyrics yet strongly implied (twenty one pilots). 90% of the time I just want honesty in the music I listen to, and for some reason CCM struggles with that. It's not a content issue-plenty of content can be found in everyday life-it's a delivery issue, I guess. I'm afraid the "industry" that's been built around CCM perpetuates the stagnant tracks...popularity and trends unfortunately.
4:22 exactly!! ive thought this for a long time. it's nice to finally hear someone else say it
I know I am realllly late to this party but i wanted to say Thank You!! I think more and more Christians are feeling this way and it's because God is calling us to authenticity and 99% of CCM is not that. It's very superficial. We left our church for this reason. I was in the choir and my husband played bass. We were convicted to not play anything from Hillsong, Bethel, or Elevation. That knocks out a large percentage of songs. Luckily about that time some friends asked us to help start a new church with them because the music wasn't the only problem we had. We were just fed up with how superficial it all felt. The pandemic highlighted this. So we started a home church. We outgrew their living room after about a year and now we rent out a middle school auditorium. Our focus is on discipleship and meeting people where they are to show them Jesus loves them and wants them to have a relationship with Him. God Bless you and your sweet family!
PS. There is a husband/wife duo I think you would enjoy. They use narratives a lot and have amazing songwriting. Grey Havens
Speaking of Christian music, have you listened to the album Clear by Whittaker? Tyler Joseph is featured on it and I think it’s pretty good and avoids some of the problems you bring up in this video
I so get this Cliff. I was in a funk for a while about how boring and predictable a lot of Christian music was but I was almost scared to venture out. "Secular" music was a part of my past that I was convinced(by trusted fellow believers) I should leave behind. When I left it behind I lost my sense of creativity and curiosity and a lot of the joy I experienced in my life. Music is creative, it's curious and gives me joy but when that is limited to "christian music" only, the choices are so limited and predictable. I'm glad I took the risk and found out that I was not 'bad" for venturing out. I think that the "safety" of christian music can be very insulating and a bit stifling so for me this has been a huge step of faith. Faith to believe that God can be in the less obvious things as well as in the obvious things. This blew my mind and I don't want to live a life limited by fear of the unknown again.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said... except the part about “sad songs” at 6:00 . I’m honestly surprised that you feel this way, in fact, I’ve always felt it was the other way around. So many songs don’t even touch on our sinful nature, they’ll phrase it as our “mistakes” or “sorrows” or “doubts” rather than our wrongdoings, sin, or wickedness. I think that these are essential points to the gospel narrative as they show us how badly we need God in order to redeem us. What are some songs you’re referring to? If you were brought up in a church different from the ones I’ve been in, i.e. if you’re from one of those infamous fire-and-brimstone churches, I may have just never heard some of the songs you heard
Dude… you just described all of my feelings on the subject. This is amazing. Thank you so much! The only Christian music that I like to listen to is the old hymns, but that's just me.
Also, I didn't know you were a Christian!
When you were talking about everyone else feeling the song and you weren't, I felt that lol. I used to think it was cringy when people put their hands up, but I think I was more angry at myself for not getting it. I know you love half•alive, and I love them too. You can hear in their voices the emotions they feel towards God and his grace (creature and the chorus in TrusT are good examples). You can HEAR it, and it's BEAUTIFUL, and their music moves me spiritually beyond where any typical Christian song has.
You were talking about the instrumentals helping the music instead of manipulating you, and half•alive gets it spot-on in that area as well. The band's vocals mixed with the instruments create this raw emotion, and the lyrics standing alone are absolutely beautiful as well. That, mixed with the modern sounds and the common, non-"Christian" themes (because why do they have to be separate?) of being okay with who you are in the present, resting, and not letting the past define you, create a marvelous, human experience unique to them, and it lets anyone enjoy it regardless of if they were Christian or not.
I'm Autistic as well, and the way the sounds blend together fill me with joy, they are easily my favorite bad right now, and I bought NNY off of bandcamp so I could have it anywhere lol.
I know I've just spouted off my own stream of consciousness here, but let me say one more thing, I've been wanting to get this out there haha. I'm silently torn between wanting all Christian music to be like them, and letting it be. Because isn't it the fact that you find them on your own seemingly when you needed it the most one of the loveliest aspects?
Also!! I've sent NNY to my youth pastor and I'm hoping he'll include some of the songs in the new plans!! (He's also the new music director)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way thank you!
Interested to hear your thoughts on Maverick City. This was really a great video especially as a Christian Songwriter.
I’m an Exvangelical Worship leader and happy I deconstructed. That being said, having been educated in music theory and appreciation you can miss out on an entire world history of music if your only style you listen to is worship music.
It’s like you went into my brain and saw my thoughts! Totally agree! I keep waiting for Tyler and Josh to make a Christian album 🤞🏻🙏🏼🥰🙌🏻
This is why I like non instrumental music in church and old hymns because it’s actually genuine
I've felt exactly what you're describing for many, many years. I've talked about it some, but I've found being honest about not wanting to be emotionally manipulated, and instead craving worship that is focused on truth, and God-centered. Saying that outloud is like poking a resting, self-satisfied bear--there's tremendous pride, and even some competitive behavior amongst many church "performers". I've sat through many services thinking, "This person is hoping there's a talent scout or music agent in the crowd today--why else would they perform with such look-at-me gusto vs. humbly leading the congregation in God-centered worship. When emotional manipulation is the goal of a singer(s), be it on a recording or live, in church, the focus simply cannot be fully on God--how can it be when my thoughts, energy, feelings, are all focused on me?
This is so relatable! My favorite Christian song is So Will I by Hillsong and the thing that really gets to me about it is the words. We need more Christian songs like that.
Hillsong is an exact example of what churches do to manipulate your emotions. Do not get me wrong. I to enjoy Hillsong songs, but, I think everyone should be educated on what they are doing to manipulate your emotions.
i went to biola university for two semesters which is a christian university and honestly this video explains how i feel so well thank you so much cliff
As for your Relient K reference, they managed to fit double meanings into much of their music that simultaneously addressed their personal and spiritual lives, and they did so in such an incredible way that I still frequently replay the entirety of MMHMM just to appreciate their wordplay. It seems like they may have disbanded, though, with Thiessen creating solo music at the present, so I don't expect another pop-punk album from RK or any former member of it anytime soon 😪
Edit: also, I suspect the SF song you said sounded cliché was The Setting Sun. I do like that one, but it's more for the spicy chords than the lyrics themselves, admittedly.
So speaking of worship music I have a question for you Clifford. What do you think of the song Reckless love? One of my Facebook friend recently posted about it saying basically Why are we calling God's love for us reckless? Because it's not it's the complete opposite. Thoughts? or anyone else?
I'm not a Christian, but if you want something deep, poetic, and just down right *perfect* then listen to Rich Mullins. 2 songs I recommend are 'The Colour Green' and 'Screen Door on a Submarine'.
I feel just like u, but i have a problem, i sing in my church and i always struggle when i have to choose the songs that i have to sing,i try to choose the ones that really mean something and always fall into the same songs
I've felt this way sometimes, like the music is more about the "feeling" than actual relatable truth. I want to feel God's presence not a manufactured feeling... It really depends on the church you go to though and your own personal experiences. I love that my church picks intentional songs to make you think. And I have appreciated a lot that's out there right now; do it again, build my life, to my knees, reckless love, etc. because God has used those songs at different times to speak to me. There are definitely songs I groan over musically/lyrically but i know that God might be using that to speak to someone else.
Thank you for saying this. I went through a pretty tough traumatic year not too long ago and ever since I haven’t been able to listen to Christian music the same way.
I can’t say I’ll never run to anyone else because I know where I go when I’m in so much pain I’d do anything to make it stop. I can’t say that everything happens for a reason. I can’t say that God is the only thing that I need because I learned pretty quick that I needed a lot more than faith. I can’t say that I’m stronger because of it - I feel more like a soldier who had his legs blown off in war and will never get them back. Not everything has a happy ending just because you’re a Christian. God won’t always provide what you need in this life.
I’ve tried to go back to how I used to be, but I just can’t. I wish I could turn off my brain and go back to being mindlessly happy and worshipful of God but I just can’t. It changed me.
Soo relatable! I couldn't understand why at first. It felt soo shallow and false, now I see and this is a confirmation, thank you for speaking up, God bless you brother! :)
Love!