Here's another one. Using bone dry wood, cut it into thin layers. Turn it into charcoal with the steel plates as described before. Acid wash. Soak with iron chloride and perform catalytic graphetization. Give nano iron enough oxygen and moisture to rust. You now have one electrode of a nickel iron battery.
I was thinking that - in addition nickel salts have the same effect as iron salts - there you have two electrodes lol! - could be the easiest most powerful nanotech NiFe battery around - I'll get on this immediately
This I think will give you good shaped plates (I haven't tried this myself). Dry the soaked wood in the oven until "bone dry". Then slice the wood into thin layers maybe two times thicker than final desired electrode thickness (the thinner the better). Place each layer between a layer of plate steel (the steel helps to conduct heat to the wood evenly across the entire surface and to maintain the shape. Place a heavy weight on top and carbonize as you normally would.
Robert, I have a question. I live in Chile, where there are a lot of very hot forest fires. Can the charcoal from the burned trees be converted to graphite and used to make battery anodes and cathodes without too much special equipment? I tried to join as a member, but because I live in Chile and my bank account is in California, your join system didn't work for me- it assigned my address to Chile. I would like to promote your channel! it is brilliant! I would like to see subtitles added to the most important videos in Spanish and French.
Hi mate, while trying the hydrothermal carbonization I was asking to myself this question: I assume that the conductivity of your carbon is good because of the formation of magnetite, isn't it? If that's the case, how can you control the amount of FeO and Fe2O3 that your produce? Is it just about changing the baking time at 800°C? Cheers
Iron works quite well as a catalyst. Remarkable graphitisation mate! Now wondering now about using Silver, or Copper. Would they work as far as a catalyst to lower the activation energy/temp? Those sure would make brilliant fuel cell electrodes as the structure and surface area with key metal catalysts incorporated in look perfect for top efficiency, solar cells even, water splitting.. :) *Gets out his green Copper(III) chloride crystals*
Robert Murray-Smith I wonder if iron, nickel, and cobalt work because they are magnetic. That wouldn't explain why chromium works. Still it seems a big coincidence with the other three. I wonder if an externally applied magnetic field would have a catalytic effect while baking the carbon.
For an inert atmosphere, would hooking up a chamber full of dry ice to the kiln chamber work? A length of larg iron pipe full of dry ice with 2 endcaps, 1 with a pressure regulator, hose & hose fitting mounted, and have that displace the air around the soon-to-be graphite.
If you really want an inert atmosphere you can use welding gear - they sell argon and carbon dioxide in small pressurized containers in car repair shops. The chain in england is called halfords and you can just go and buy it no problem. They also sell the regulators and hoses - so it's not too difficult a job - i have been thinking of doiing it so i may do it sooner rather than later and vid it
It depends on how hot you plan to make the kiln. If you're not doing catalytic graphitization, then eventually the CO2 begins to react with the charcoal and will make CO. The lower temperature of catalytic graphitization may be just fine. Maybe not! CO is poisonous. Incidentally, any oxygen that gets in during graphitization should attack the outer edges first. If you take an existing piece of charcoal it will be full of air. If you put that into a kiln using Robert's method as it heats up the oxygen will react inside the charcoal thereby creating atom sized cavities in the carbon matrix. It is now activated.
Joseph Richardson That's not strictly true - you need to soak it in an activation agent like KOH, NaOH or CaCl first. Sure carbon monoxide is poisonous but try not to stick a bag on your head and attach it to your kiln with a hose and you should be fine! - joking aside this should be done in a well ventilated area - i guess my bad for not saying that.
Robert Murray-Smith You can get far more molecules of KOH, NaOH, and CaCl into charcoal than you can of O2. Using air is just not practical because you would have to go through multiple cycles of heating the charcoal with air in a sealed container, letting it cool, put fresh air in and repeating over and over. Also if you think about how heat travels from the outside of the container to the middle, the hottest area will be the outside so that is where most of the oxidation will take place and there will be no real activation. A rotary kiln would solve that, though. Also if your charcoal were already graphitic you could heat it in a sealed container (with a pinhole vent of course) in a microwave. The sudden heating should cause a small amount of activation throughout. This process would probably have to be repeated until desired results are achieved. Per Wikipedia for activated carbon "Raw material or carbonized material is exposed to oxidizing atmospheres (oxygen or steam) at temperatures above 250 °C, usually in the temperature range of 600-1200 °C."
Would it still work if I make the charcoal first then add iron sulfate and then heat it back up. I make thousands of pounds of charcoal for my garden and its just not practical to dry, soak, and again dry all that wood prior to turning it into charcoal. Once you have the charcoal there's a lot less of it than the wood you started with and it's easy to soak with the salts. I could then mix the iron sulfate doped charcoal in with wood the next time I make a batch of charcoal. Why would I do this? The goal is to make a charcoal with superior cation exchange capacity.
Excellent! That's what I'll do then with next year's batch of charcoal. I'll also be adding ag lime to the charcoal to scrub SO2 and make gypsum. It should work out very well.
Would Mg and Ca ions produce graphitization making charcoal out of seaweed (kelp)? So the MG and Ca ions are there in seawater, and seaweed lives in seawater. I am interested about making electrodes, in open ocean environment, for seawater electrolysis. Sincerely;
wonder if this would assist with hydrogen storage? i was reading something earlier about hydrogen fracturing around welds on the storage bottles, there must be a way to tank the bottles on the inside with a layer of plastic or something. ''something'' is quite a big word lol.
I have a kiln that can reach 2400 degrees. If I use this technique will I achieve even greater graphitization than I would without the Iron III considering that I am in the range of normal graphitization or is there a ceiling to the benefits of the catalytic method
+Rob Rice the benefit of the catalytic method is the reduced heat and so reduced energy cost - I don't know why you would go up so high if you don't need to - as - well - what is the point - but then give it a go and see
Heylo Robert, sorry I have been slacking on keeping up with your vids lately. Welcome to what I have been calling the "dark side". Try 100% cotton cloth sonic in GO. then try adding your iron & nickel solutions. I have been getting real good conductivity with just GO. I think your results could be "Edison-able"? Keep up the good fight Sir Robert! :)
I'm am new at this so please forgive me if I don't fully understand chemistry, but you said this would work with nearly all metal salts. Would Magnesium Sulfate (IE Epsoms salts) work for this. If so would the material maintain is piezoelectric and pyroelectric capabilities. Thanks
Thank you so much. I love your channel. I've been working with the Seebeck effect but have found that the wiring of such a device is fragile. My next experiment is to try to make conductive clay using this monotherm concept to see if I get a more sturdy end product. Thank Rob
Here's another one. Using bone dry wood, cut it into thin layers. Turn it into charcoal with the steel plates as described before. Acid wash. Soak with iron chloride and perform catalytic graphetization. Give nano iron enough oxygen and moisture to rust. You now have one electrode of a nickel iron battery.
I was thinking that - in addition nickel salts have the same effect as iron salts - there you have two electrodes lol! - could be the easiest most powerful nanotech NiFe battery around - I'll get on this immediately
incidentally - this joint idea we just came up with is the reason to share - cheers mate
Robert Murray-Smith You're very much welcome!
This I think will give you good shaped plates (I haven't tried this myself). Dry the soaked wood in the oven until "bone dry". Then slice the wood into thin layers maybe two times thicker than final desired electrode thickness (the thinner the better). Place each layer between a layer of plate steel (the steel helps to conduct heat to the wood evenly across the entire surface and to maintain the shape. Place a heavy weight on top and carbonize as you normally would.
That will help - a lot - thanks mate
I finally understand the principle of catalytic graphetization , thanks for this video
+Kami Star cheers mate
Robert, I have a question. I live in Chile, where there are a lot of very hot forest fires. Can the charcoal from the burned trees be converted to graphite and used to make battery anodes and cathodes without too much special equipment? I tried to join as a member, but because I live in Chile and my bank account is in California, your join system didn't work for me- it assigned my address to Chile. I would like to promote your channel! it is brilliant! I would like to see subtitles added to the most important videos in Spanish and French.
Could you use this process to make home made neodymium magnets? Because this would be useful in making rotors over a stator in a drum motor fashion.
Hi mate, while trying the hydrothermal carbonization I was asking to myself this question: I assume that the conductivity of your carbon is good because of the formation of magnetite, isn't it? If that's the case, how can you control the amount of FeO and Fe2O3 that your produce? Is it just about changing the baking time at 800°C? Cheers
Iron works quite well as a catalyst. Remarkable graphitisation mate! Now wondering now about using Silver, or Copper. Would they work as far as a catalyst to lower the activation energy/temp? Those sure would make brilliant fuel cell electrodes as the structure and surface area with key metal catalysts incorporated in look perfect for top efficiency, solar cells even, water splitting.. :) *Gets out his green Copper(III) chloride crystals*
It has a hundred uses lol - nickel works well too as does chromium and cobalt it's just nickel and iron are cheap and readily available.
Robert Murray-Smith I wonder if iron, nickel, and cobalt work because they are magnetic. That wouldn't explain why chromium works. Still it seems a big coincidence with the other three. I wonder if an externally applied magnetic field would have a catalytic effect while baking the carbon.
worth trying let me know how you get on
copper (III)??? dont you mean copper (II)?
For an inert atmosphere, would hooking up a chamber full of dry ice to the kiln chamber work?
A length of larg iron pipe full of dry ice with 2 endcaps, 1 with a pressure regulator, hose & hose fitting mounted, and have that displace the air around the soon-to-be graphite.
If you really want an inert atmosphere you can use welding gear - they sell argon and carbon dioxide in small pressurized containers in car repair shops. The chain in england is called halfords and you can just go and buy it no problem. They also sell the regulators and hoses - so it's not too difficult a job - i have been thinking of doiing it so i may do it sooner rather than later and vid it
It depends on how hot you plan to make the kiln. If you're not doing catalytic graphitization, then eventually the CO2 begins to react with the charcoal and will make CO. The lower temperature of catalytic graphitization may be just fine. Maybe not! CO is poisonous. Incidentally, any oxygen that gets in during graphitization should attack the outer edges first. If you take an existing piece of charcoal it will be full of air. If you put that into a kiln using Robert's method as it heats up the oxygen will react inside the charcoal thereby creating atom sized cavities in the carbon matrix. It is now activated.
Joseph Richardson That's not strictly true - you need to soak it in an activation agent like KOH, NaOH or CaCl first. Sure carbon monoxide is poisonous but try not to stick a bag on your head and attach it to your kiln with a hose and you should be fine! - joking aside this should be done in a well ventilated area - i guess my bad for not saying that.
Robert Murray-Smith You can get far more molecules of KOH, NaOH, and CaCl into charcoal than you can of O2. Using air is just not practical because you would have to go through multiple cycles of heating the charcoal with air in a sealed container, letting it cool, put fresh air in and repeating over and over. Also if you think about how heat travels from the outside of the container to the middle, the hottest area will be the outside so that is where most of the oxidation will take place and there will be no real activation. A rotary kiln would solve that, though. Also if your charcoal were already graphitic you could heat it in a sealed container (with a pinhole vent of course) in a microwave. The sudden heating should cause a small amount of activation throughout. This process would probably have to be repeated until desired results are achieved. Per Wikipedia for activated carbon "Raw material or carbonized material is exposed to oxidizing atmospheres (oxygen or steam) at temperatures above 250 °C, usually in the temperature range of 600-1200 °C."
Thanks mate for Sharing this Simple Process of graphetisation! :)
no worries mate
Please, How may I access the old carbon foam videos?
Would it still work if I make the charcoal first then add iron sulfate and then heat it back up. I make thousands of pounds of charcoal for my garden and its just not practical to dry, soak, and again dry all that wood prior to turning it into charcoal. Once you have the charcoal there's a lot less of it than the wood you started with and it's easy to soak with the salts. I could then mix the iron sulfate doped charcoal in with wood the next time I make a batch of charcoal. Why would I do this? The goal is to make a charcoal with superior cation exchange capacity.
good goal - if you could get good impregnation of the salt solution into the charcoal then yes it will work
Excellent! That's what I'll do then with next year's batch of charcoal. I'll also be adding ag lime to the charcoal to scrub SO2 and make gypsum. It should work out very well.
Joseph Richardson
sounds really interesting - will you make a video?
Yes
Bone makes the best Activated Carbon that I've ever used.
Totally over my head, but still very interesting.
Would Mg and Ca ions produce graphitization making charcoal out of seaweed (kelp)?
So the MG and Ca ions are there in seawater, and seaweed lives in seawater.
I am interested about making electrodes, in open ocean environment, for seawater electrolysis.
Sincerely;
What about the HCl evolving in the heat from the Ironchloride?
wonder if this would assist with hydrogen storage? i was reading something earlier about hydrogen fracturing around welds on the storage bottles, there must be a way to tank the bottles on the inside with a layer of plastic or something.
''something'' is quite a big word lol.
sounds like the perfect material for creation of a motor. Iron nano particles will have low eddy current losses
Could you Carbonize Vermiculite in your kiln ?
So very interesting. Thanks.
glad you liked it mate - cheers
I have a kiln that can reach 2400 degrees. If I use this technique will I achieve even greater graphitization than I would without the Iron III considering that I am in the range of normal graphitization or is there a ceiling to the benefits of the catalytic method
+Rob Rice the benefit of the catalytic method is the reduced heat and so reduced energy cost - I don't know why you would go up so high if you don't need to - as - well - what is the point - but then give it a go and see
please,please turn up thr recording volume.
Hello Robert, why not use copper chloride as it would leave highly conductive copper nanoparticles instead of iron of nickel?
give it a go and see mate
Either it is a good idea or you know it is going to be a bust LOL, either way, I will but I have to wait as other irons are in the fire.
pretty much where i am at too mate
Not enough time in the day I need to train my kids as interns or something lol.
lol
If you pop a small piece of this charcoal in the microwave do you get any kind of expansion like you do with intercalated graphite?
no i'm afraid not. The charcoal lacks a planar graphitic structure and thee is no intercalant to explode and and expand it all
Make graphfoil then recover the graphene?
A plastics update would be good to.
Is that 800 f or c?
Heylo Robert, sorry I have been slacking on keeping up with your vids lately. Welcome to what I have been calling the "dark side". Try 100% cotton cloth sonic in GO. then try adding your iron & nickel solutions. I have been getting real good conductivity with just GO. I think your results could be "Edison-able"? Keep up the good fight Sir Robert! :)
I'm am new at this so please forgive me if I don't fully understand chemistry, but you said this would work with nearly all metal salts. Would Magnesium Sulfate (IE Epsoms salts) work for this. If so would the material maintain is piezoelectric and pyroelectric capabilities. Thanks
+Rob Rice all nickel and iron salts - -not all salts
Thank you so much. I love your channel. I've been working with the Seebeck effect but have found that the wiring of such a device is fragile. My next experiment is to try to make conductive clay using this monotherm concept to see if I get a more sturdy end product. Thank Rob
+Rob Rice that's a good plan mate - do a vid and let me know how it goes
Yey! Let's get uncle Roger's used loo rolls so ve can stop climate change!
Question:
Can one use pee to wet toilet papers to get better results?